/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-07-26 / end

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# Session Start: Tue Jul 26 00:00:00 2011
# Session Ident: #html5
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# [00:04] <paul_irish> sic1: be sure to turn off mootools in the base fiddle
# [00:04] <paul_irish> sandprickle: master branchhhhhhhhhh
# [00:05] <sandprickle> ok thx man
# [00:05] <grantg> even irish. :)
# [00:05] <grantg> *evening
# [00:07] <paul_irish> hey bro
# [00:07] <grantg> I just posted in #audio about nezulator using xaudiojs now. :)
# [00:08] <grantg> so web audio is used in that jsnes fork. :)
# [00:08] <xonecas> grantg: o/
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# [00:09] <grantg> hey xonecas
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# [00:11] <grantg> xonecas: http://zelex.net/nezulator/ should sound better than jsnes in chrome
# [00:11] <grantg> at least on mac os x
# [00:11] <grantg> much less latency
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# [00:18] <grantg> xonecas: meanwhile with js gba - http://pastebin.com/QtMhXNr8
# [00:19] <grantg> double checking the hardware multiplication instrs for arm.
# [00:19] <grantg> especially since it's 64 bit
# [00:19] <grantg> and bitwise in js only does 32-bit signed
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# [00:23] <xonecas> You've been busy
# [00:23] <xonecas> I need to update the build here at home
# [00:23] <xonecas> haven't played in a while
# [00:23] <xonecas> been gone
# [00:23] <grantg> check the conditional nibble of the instruction for conditional execution, chunk the instr decoding, cast to unsigned 32, then multiply the two 32-bit unsigned values from registers, then add to existing value if accumulate flag is set, do some more js foo for grabbing the top 32 bits of the 64 bit result if need be ((x / 0x100000000) | 0) trick), update the CPSR registers if the S bit is...
# [00:23] <grantg> ...set in the instruction, wrap it up.
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# [00:24] <grantg> :)
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# [00:25] <xonecas> Can you speak english :-P
# [00:27] <grantg> me wants 64-bit bitwise for js
# [00:27] <grantg> otherwise you have to use regular math ops to solve anything beyond 32-bit math
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# [00:28] <grantg> you divide by 0x100000000 to make anything in the lower 32 bits below the floating point
# [00:28] <xonecas> I see
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# [00:29] <grantg> then you use the | 0 trick to bound as 32-bit and drop the floating point.
# [00:29] <grantg> :D
# [00:29] <xonecas> :-)
# [00:29] <nimbu> wayy too deep grantg
# [00:29] <grantg> bitwise in js is limited to 32-bit, *but not regular math.*
# [00:29] <grantg> heh
# [00:31] <xonecas> grantg: I agree with nimbu lol
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# [00:32] <grantg> try >> 0 and >>> 0 in jsfiddle
# [00:32] <grantg> subtle differences
# [00:32] <grantg> one does the sign bit, the other doesn't.
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# [00:32] <grantg> making sure you're doing unsigned bit math is kinda important. :D
# [00:32] <xonecas> But you have been busy while I was gone. I learned my lesson to not to code while on vacations (drunk) xonecas.com
# [00:32] <grantg> heh
# [00:32] <xonecas> ahah
# [00:33] <xonecas> Sorry crock man told me not to use bitwise operators
# [00:33] <grantg> xonecas: and ARM CPUs use a funny shift method for offsetting immediate values
# [00:33] <grantg> ((immediate << (0x20 - shift)) | (immediate >> shift))
# [00:33] <grantg> weeeee
# [00:34] <grantg> shift right and carry into from the left
# [00:34] <grantg> >_>
# [00:34] <xonecas> grantg I worry about your sanity if you keep this up
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# [00:34] <grantg> xonecas: Do you really know how long JS GBA has been going on?
# [00:34] <grantg> since JS GBC started
# [00:34] <Peter`> give him his moment, he's just bragging off xonecas
# [00:35] <grantg> last year
# [00:35] <grantg> Peter`: :|
# [00:35] <xonecas> I can see the dates in the repos
# [00:35] <xonecas> Peter`: after all the time he has spent on this he needs some venting off
# [00:35] <grantg> xonecas: The repo dates are after js gbc was almost done. :)
# [00:35] <grantg> xonecas: I have been on too much
# [00:35] <xonecas> ahahaha
# [00:35] <xonecas> I kind of figured that muc
# [00:35] <xonecas> much
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# [00:36] <grantg> simulating a cpu pipeline in js is fun. :)
# [00:36] <grantg> that too. :)
# [00:37] <grantg> "the program counter does not actually match the location of the currently executing instruction, apply a variable offset to that depending on the depth of the pipeline itself" <-- lol
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# [00:38] <xonecas> well at least the docs tell you that
# [00:38] <grantg> because the pc is used in the fetch staging pipeline
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# [00:38] <grantg> true
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# [00:39] <grantg> fetch/decode/execute
# [00:39] <grantg> so what you're dealing with was determined two pipeline syncs ago
# [00:39] <grantg> except on certain instructions, where a nasty flush can happen. :(
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# [00:45] <xonecas> grantg: take a break man, play some snes :-P
# [00:45] <grantg> xonecas: lol
# [00:46] <grantg> or test some golden sun in google chrome
# [00:46] <xonecas> there you go
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# [00:46] <grantg> but the world map is glitched. :(
# [00:47] <grantg> cpu cycle accuracy is still a bummer. D:
# [00:47] <grantg> things like branches on special reg values can cause extra clocking, so I need to fix that
# [00:48] <grantg> (i.e. pipeline flush)
# [00:48] <paul_irish> just wrote this. tweak if you want https://developer.mozilla.org/Creating_and_triggering_custom_events
# [00:49] <grantg> nice
# [00:51] <grantg> look what I found in a library today: http://i.imgur.com/duSnM.png
# [00:51] <grantg> "The Internet Unleashed (c) 1994" - now on floppy
# [00:51] <grantg> and stuck inside a cd case. LOL
# [00:51] <xonecas> ahahahaha
# [00:51] <xonecas> funny stuff there
# [00:52] <grantg> found in the bowels of a library, next to programming for windows 3.11
# [00:52] <xonecas> paul_irish: what is the dispatchEvent method?
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# [00:53] <paul_irish> standard dom level 2 event method
# [00:54] <xonecas> I'm reading the docs, it's the trigger :-)
# 03[00:54] * jacine is now known as jacine|brb
# [00:54] <xonecas> <- foreigner, some times I need my keywords...
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# [01:01] <sic1> paul_irish: mdc needs some help with copy and pasting code, but that is awesome! whats the compatibility like?
# [01:01] <grantg> damn tf2 spies - http://i.imgur.com/ki96g.png
# [01:01] <grantg> haters gonna hate big time
# [01:02] <sic1> and dude, DUDE....i cant figure out how im bricking that transition, about...30% of the time it works as expected, the other %...does the initial animation onload
# [01:03] <sic1> it would make me feel better if i could blame you tho
# [01:03] <paul_irish> sic1: compat is everywhere but oldIE
# [01:04] <paul_irish> feel free blaming me
# [01:04] <sic1> sweetness x2
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# [01:05] <gseguin> nimbu: thank you!
# [01:05] <nimbu> gseguin: o for what :||
# [01:06] <gseguin> the message that bot-t just delivered to me
# [01:06] <nimbu> o right
# [01:06] <nimbu> :))
# [01:06] <gseguin> I'll give it a try
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# [02:16] <digitalfiz> http://i.imgur.com/7pOwI.jpg
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# [08:03] <niftylettuce> need moar coffeee?
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# [10:51] <jayflux> paul_irish: is there a shortcut for the elements inspector on dev tools? the little magnifying glass
# [10:53] <acies> right click element, inspect ?
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# [11:27] <noob634> guys whenever i expand my left div my right div is not visible
# [11:27] <noob634> can any one help me out
# [11:27] <noob634> ?
# [11:27] <noob634> http://jsfiddle.net/nJAfR/1/
# [11:28] <charged_bolt> Welcome back noob634 (with a new nick this time)
# [11:28] <charged_bolt> so you are noob in #jquery and cross posting your question here as noob634
# [11:28] <charged_bolt> ?!?!??!?!?!?
# [11:28] <noob634> not as 634
# [11:29] <noob634> system gives you this by default
# [11:29] <noob634> because ther's already a noob here
# [11:29] <noob634> :D
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# [11:29] <charged_bolt> Lul :D
# [11:29] <charged_bolt> you are funny bro
# [11:29] <charged_bolt> I don't hate funny people
# [11:29] <charged_bolt> but do you know you can "/join #some_channel" ?
# [11:29] <charged_bolt> and use the same nick
# [11:29] <noob634> i am not gay to get things straight
# [11:30] <noob634> so dont love me
# [11:30] <noob634> :P
# [11:30] <charged_bolt> and noob609 in #javascript
# [11:30] <charged_bolt> Lul
# [11:30] <noob634> anyways u any good with html
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# [11:30] <charged_bolt> I am good with everything, but gotta get back to work now
# [11:30] <noob634> ohh comeon
# [11:30] <noob634> dnt be a spoi sport
# [11:31] <noob634> have a look atleast
# [11:31] <charged_bolt> HOld
# [11:31] <noob634> http://jsfiddle.net/nJAfR/1/
# [11:31] <charged_bolt> your code is so messy
# [11:32] <charged_bolt> its so messy, I can give you a hint
# [11:32] <charged_bolt> your slider div needs to be positioned absolutely/fixed
# [11:32] <noob634> y are u giving hints
# [11:32] <noob634> this is not an exam
# [11:32] <charged_bolt> Heh
# [11:33] <charged_bolt> #freelance <-- hire me there
# [11:34] <noob634> do u know ruby?
# [11:34] <charged_bolt> yes
# [11:34] <noob634> how much will you charge then i can hire you for this
# [11:34] <noob634> i want back end from ruby
# [11:34] <noob634> i have built rails applicaion
# [11:34] <noob634> anywyas ur charges will be high
# [11:34] <noob634> i an not afford
# [11:35] <noob634> i dont think i can
# [11:35] <charged_bolt> lets talk in #freelance where there are more people who might be up to work for you
# [11:35] <noob634> i dont have time at the moment actually
# [11:35] <noob634> i have to show this to someone
# [11:35] <charged_bolt> you freelance ?
# [11:35] <noob634> in an hour
# [11:35] <noob634> yeah
# [11:35] <noob634> odesk
# [11:35] <noob634> :D
# [11:35] <charged_bolt> Heh
# [11:35] <charged_bolt> you don't go to schools ?!
# [11:35] <charged_bolt> where are you located bro ?
# [11:35] <noob634> india
# [11:36] <noob634> i am registered in a school
# [11:36] <noob634> thts enough i think
# [11:36] <noob634> :D
# [11:36] <charged_bolt> :P
# [11:36] <charged_bolt> msg me
# [11:36] <noob634> u in india as well?
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# [11:37] <charged_bolt> do you go to schools ?
# [11:38] <charged_bolt> I want to know how do you freelance as well as go to schools ?
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# [11:38] <noob634> i dont
# [11:38] <noob634> i am registered
# [11:38] <noob634> i only give exams
# [11:39] <noob634> heard of proxy?
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# [11:41] <charged_bolt> nope, what the hell is htat ?
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# [11:42] <noob634> some one giving attendance for u = proxy
# [11:43] <charged_bolt> noob634: check PM
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# [12:42] <amigojapan> There will be a new version of gamemaker that will generate html5 apps!!!
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# [12:50] <amigojapan> Gamemaker Is great and now it will generate multyplatform apps
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# [13:04] <superos> Is off line storage of video and audio files supported on mobile devices (iOS and Android)?
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# [13:21] <amigojapan> Gamemaker Is great and now it will generate multyplatform apps <====. On iPhone it is
# [13:21] <amigojapan> Err
# [13:21] <amigojapan> Superos. On iPhone it is
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# [13:28] <superos> amigojapan: On SO there are a few threads saying it does not work.
# [13:28] <superos> Might be that iOS upgrades support it.
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# [13:33] <amigojapan> Superos. I saw a tutorial where they cashed an html5 app on the iPhone so you don't need to download it again
# [13:34] <superos> amigojapan: Sorry, but maybe I did not specify enought. I know text, js and images can be stored off line, but I read a lot about audio and video not supported.
# [13:34] <amigojapan> Oh. Then I don't know. Sorry
# [13:36] <superos> no problem
# [13:36] <superos> I am investigating this for a new project
# [13:36] <superos> using html5 to make a tourist guide
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# [13:50] <mokush> does anybody know if the max-width mediaquery changes with orientation?
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# [14:20] <mokush> any idea how to clip contents of a box with border-radius?
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# [16:01] <kollapse> Hi. I have a little curiosity about how search engines index content. Basically the index bot accesses a page and filters out all URLs and then follows them. But what if I have a hidden link? Will it follow that as well or will it ignore it ? Such as "<a href='http://www.site.com' style='display: hidden;'></a>"
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# [16:03] <OzDave_mbp> google webmaster tools account and indexing your site to that webmaster tools has a lot of google secrets to what they collect, they collect a lot more then just the ahref links and build and populate word clouds etc, as well as focusing on the first set amount of words in the page etc
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# [16:03] <OzDave_mbp> https://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/home?hl=en
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# [16:06] <OzDave_mbp> on the flipside you can use it for your site anway
# [16:06] <OzDave_mbp> you can control indexing with meta tags like NOINDEX NOFOLLOW etc
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# [16:07] <OzDave_mbp> its all neatly bundled in that service for you
# [16:07] <kollapse> Thanks for that OzDave_mbp !
# [16:07] <OzDave_mbp> np m8
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# [16:13] <andrewjbaker> Anymore HTML5 game devs on since I last came stalking?^^
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# [16:16] <dr0id> nope
# [16:16] <andrewjbaker> :-(
# [16:16] <andrewjbaker> Pants.
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# [16:19] <andrewjbaker> They're an elusive bunch. :-p
# [16:20] <dr0id> what happened exactly ?
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# [16:21] <shawn_dones> Yes do tell.
# [16:22] <shawn_dones> HTML5 game dev's sounds interesting
# [16:22] <andrewjbaker> I'm just trying to connect w/ as many HTML5 game devs as I possibly can. There's not a huge community at the mo'. Mostly cos' it's quite a diverse demographic: Flash, PBBGs, mobile, social, console, etc.
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# [16:23] <dr0id> I am interested to make html5 games
# [16:23] <OzDave_mbp> count me in
# [16:24] <andrewjbaker> LOL, OzDave_mbp you're already counted in. ;-)
# [16:24] <shawn_dones> currently studying creating iPhone apps using html/css/JS
# [16:24] <OzDave_mbp> :)
# [16:24] <andrewjbaker> There's a small community of persistent browser-based games and HTML5 games devs over on #bbg.
# [16:24] <OzDave_mbp> I am addicted to playing this game called " pay the mortgage " its ok! but it gets boring in stages
# [16:24] <shawn_dones> lol @OzDave_mbp
# [16:25] <OzDave_mbp> =]
# [16:25] <shawn_dones> OzDave_mbp: I feel your pain bro
# [16:25] <OzDave_mbp> hehe you must of played it ;)
# [16:25] <shawn_dones> OzDave_mbp: are you kidding? I'm a seasoned vet
# [16:26] <shawn_dones> I went to Full Sail University
# [16:26] <OzDave_mbp> bwhaha Ive been grinding for a few years,.
# [16:26] <OzDave_mbp> still not up there yet
# [16:26] <shawn_dones> borrowed every penny
# [16:27] <OzDave_mbp> I also play this other game, a million meals with rice!
# [16:27] <OzDave_mbp> chciken teriyaki is a good one!
# [16:27] <shawn_dones> Kentucky Education Department Slogan "Education Pays" they forgot to include the last words "With Inerest"
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# [16:27] <OzDave_mbp> so true
# [16:28] <shawn_dones> I do appreciate my college years tho
# [16:28] <OzDave_mbp> they call them hecks debts over here, people called them hex's
# 06[16:28] * andrewjbaker is on a Skype call... not being ignorant for no reason. ;-)
# [16:28] <OzDave_mbp> np
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# [16:29] <dr0id> funny people on ic
# [16:29] <dr0id> irc
# [16:29] <OzDave_mbp> study now bleed later
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# [17:00] <mokush> any idea for a way around this? http://fransdejonge.com/test/2010/border-radius/
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# [17:18] <Jon47> mokush, it's not ideal but instead of having two elements (the subject and the body) within a container that has border radius, just stack the two elements on top of each other and put border top-left/right radius on the subject, and border bottom-left/right radius on the body
# [17:19] <mokush> Jon47: problem is, I have a container with overflow: auto that needs border radius. and it needs to scroll content inside.
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# [17:22] <Jon47> you can figure somethin out, might not be ideal or as shallow a construction as you like, but anything is possible
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# [18:00] <shawn_dones> Does using nav make it ok to not use ul's in navigations?
# [18:02] <andrewjbaker> Bk.
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# [18:50] <JackLeo> hey need some help with styling :/ i'm doing something wrong...
# [18:50] <JackLeo> http://jsfiddle.net/a4mpr/2/
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# [19:55] <Zeddy> http://jsbin.com/acopez/3 anyone care to tell me why the position is only updated once on my android? :\
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# [20:00] <Pensador> good afternoon
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# [20:06] <Zeddy> CMON
# [20:06] <Zeddy> http://jsbin.com/omuzeh/edit#preview
# [20:07] <Zeddy> even using the example code my android only updates location once
# [20:07] <Zeddy> buuuulshit
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# [20:31] <Zeddy> seriously html5
# [20:31] <Zeddy> why does watchPosition work like getPosition ?
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# [20:44] <Zeddy> http://jsbin.com/axuteb
# [20:44] <Zeddy> this doesn't even work
# [20:44] <Zeddy> >_>
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# [22:10] <grantg> found a site that uses js gbc - http://www.pwobrasil.com/
# [22:10] <grantg> lolwhat
# [22:11] <grantg> wat
# 06[22:12] * grantg slowly backs away and pours gasoline all over.
# [22:12] <grantg> xonecas: You might wanna stand back. :P
# [22:13] <tw2113> ooh puddles!
# [22:13] <tw2113> *jumps in them*
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# [22:14] <tw2113> boo! they use all the worst games too
# [22:14] <grantg> heh
# [22:15] <grantg> I think I know where some of the traffic is coming from now. <_<
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# [22:32] <grantg> not enough overstretched JPEGs with visible artifacts... moar geocities w/ frontpage 2002 plz.
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# [22:44] <grantg> OMFG, every image is an image map... weee back to 1999
# [22:44] <grantg> and <marquee> is being used
# [22:47] <tw2113> i closed that tab down and still felt the need for a bleech bath
# [22:47] <tw2113> you've been poking at it for awhile
# [22:47] <grantg> heh
# [22:47] <grantg> tw2113: Don't look a the markup
# [22:47] <grantg> I'll make you raeg
# [22:47] <grantg> *It'll
# [22:48] <grantg> *at
# [22:48] <grantg> "welcome back to 1999"
# [22:48] <grantg> "but you must use Firefox 5 or Chrome"
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# [22:59] <franksalim> html5.reddit.com passed 1000 subscribers
# [23:00] <irae_> grantg: this site shames my country. it's so bad that I cleared cache & cookies twice after closing the tab.
# [23:00] <grantg> heh
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# [23:11] <grantg> tw2113: and by "found this site" I mean http://pastebin.com/cM33yqN5
# [23:11] <grantg> yeah
# [23:12] <grantg> :|
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# [23:20] <grantg> irae_: You might need to flip some tables too bro - (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
# [23:22] <irae_> grantg: lol
# [23:23] <daleharvey> can anyone point me to where id lookups happen inside v8? :P
# [23:24] <grantg> good thing pwobrasil.com doesn't know about http://www.grantgalitz.org/get_the_hell_out/PokemonYellow/
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# [23:26] <irae_> grantg: the idea to have the cable link working over the internet could be a great challenge.
# [23:26] <grantg> already tried an experimental system
# [23:26] <grantg> too much lag
# [23:27] <grantg> would cause the sync. locks between emulators to slow them down to a crawl
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# [23:28] <grantg> for one thing, there's comm proxying with the server, since you won't be able to directly connect to the other computer
# [23:28] <grantg> then there's the mysql server lag
# [23:28] <grantg> and the routine polling interval timing
# [23:28] <grantg> yeah
# [23:29] <franksalim> grantg: why mysql?
# [23:29] <franksalim> and why polling? use a websocket
# [23:29] <grantg> websockets don't work for many people
# [23:29] <grantg> I have to proxy the connection through the server
# [23:29] <franksalim> use a websocket polyfill
# [23:30] <irae_> but not many people would want to use cablelink either
# [23:30] <grantg> mysql is just used to temporarily organize the waitlisted requests
# [23:30] <grantg> for the target connection to pick up
# [23:31] <franksalim> you do have to proxy, at least until you can use the p2p stuff
# [23:31] <irae_> It's not the first project that I've seen that would benefit from browser p2p. is there any draft or spec for that?
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# [23:31] <franksalim> but i think mysql is inappropriate to model a cable
# [23:31] <grantg> franksalim: many people have problems with websockets still
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# [23:31] <franksalim> irae_, http://tools.ietf.org/wg/rtcweb/
# [23:31] <grantg> inbound data is blocked at the router for many people
# [23:32] <franksalim> grantg, not over ssl. that works 95% of the time or more
# [23:32] <grantg> not for the people I've seen try to use websocket chat stuff
# [23:32] <tw2113> thatryan ping
# [23:32] <franksalim> grantg, where they using ssl?
# [23:32] <grantg> normal http connections are getting filtered
# [23:32] <grantg> for inbound crap in long living connections
# [23:33] <grantg> once you disconnect, the router blocks further inbound
# [23:33] <franksalim> but were they using a secure connection?
# [23:33] <franksalim> what do you mean by disconnect
# [23:33] <grantg> and many routers limit the initial inbound initiated by the first outgoing
# [23:33] <franksalim> and what do you mean by inbound
# [23:33] <franksalim> there are no inbound TCP connections with WebSocket
# [23:34] <grantg> franksalim: routers filter random inbound packets in many cases
# [23:34] <grantg> not everyone is on a UPnP
# [23:34] <franksalim> grantg, if they did that, they wouldn't work as routers
# [23:34] <grantg> see linksys being a bitch
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# [23:35] <grantg> franksalim: many routers with the default firewall set will not allow random inbound
# [23:35] <irae_> franksalim: thanks for the link! I was under the impression that rtc was for audio/video communication only, not browser p2p
# [23:35] <grantg> for home-user router
# [23:36] <franksalim> irae_, there has also been (less) discussion about data. i don't know if that will actually appear in the first round protocol and api
# [23:36] <franksalim> grantg, there are no inbound TCP connections with websocket
# [23:36] <franksalim> there are IP packets from the server
# [23:36] <franksalim> as there are in https
# [23:37] <franksalim> grantg: do you have any links about this type of failure
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# [23:38] <grantg> franksalim: It's a long lived tcp connection on port 80, no?
# [23:39] <grantg> I've been on computers where this kind of long lived connection gets cut strangely by the router
# [23:39] <franksalim> grantg: or 443 (or any other port)
# [23:39] <franksalim> some NAT boxes close idle connections
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# [23:39] <grantg> the problem is that firewalls at the routers are still meh
# [23:39] <franksalim> after a period of time in the minutes
# [23:40] <franksalim> many application protocols have a ping/pong to keep those connections open
# [23:40] <franksalim> websocket-10 does
# [23:40] <franksalim> for instance
# [23:40] <franksalim> IRC does
# [23:40] <grantg> true
# [23:40] <franksalim> which is why your connection to freenode is not dropping
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# [23:40] <franksalim> and your link cable protocol should, too :)
# [23:40] <grantg> though I'm wondering why websocket connections for chat broke on some instances
# [23:41] <grantg> franksalim: I also know how to port forward. :)
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# [23:41] <franksalim> if it was port 80, unencrypted, there are more http proxies that will break connections
# [23:41] <franksalim> wss on port 443 should work almost all of the time
# [23:41] <grantg> if you say so
# [23:41] <grantg> I've seen otherwise
# [23:42] <franksalim> please let me know if you see it again
# [23:42] <grantg> older linksys boxes, always a pain
# [23:43] <irae_> I've not developed anything with websockets yet, but it's sad to see that a new protocol would suffer so much with lame hardware
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# [23:44] <franksalim> irae_: very true. other protocols with long lived connections manage to work around it, though. xmpp and irc do.
# [23:44] <irae_> we already have problems enough with XHR long poling, if moving to websockets will require special care, why trouble?
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# [23:44] <grantg> "did you try unplugging it and plugging it back in" is still said today.
# [23:44] <grantg> with linksys routers
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# [23:45] <grantg> franksalim: What if it's the firewall in the router realizing it's no longer HTTP after the upgrade message?
# [23:45] <irae_> franksalim: the protocol itself should provide some kind of workaround internally, so we can develop on top of it without worrying about keep alive and stuff
# [23:45] <franksalim> irae_: xhr long polling requires a lot of special care, too. you hit invisible limits with http implementations, as well
# [23:46] <franksalim> grantg: the firewall and router (99% of the time) can't inspect encrypted traffic. that's why i recommended wss
# [23:46] <franksalim> irae_: that's why the ping/pong frames were added to the websocket protocol spec
# [23:46] <irae_> franksalim: i know... what I meant was: if I already have trouble with long-poling, why care to change to a new technology that also have the same kind of trouble and less browser support?
# [23:46] <grantg> franksalim: Also I can't do client to client directly in many cases with the port blocked
# [23:46] <grantg> server still needed
# [23:47] <franksalim> grantg: you'll always need a server without p2p
# [23:47] <grantg> which is why I'm not gonna use websockets
# [23:47] <grantg> plus shitty websocket support on the server
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# [23:47] <franksalim> irae_: if it ain't broke don't fix it. long-polling is really broken for some use cases
# [23:48] <franksalim> grantg: you need server for http polling, too
# [23:48] <grantg> I know, but I'd rather do http-polling if I'm stuck with the server as a middleman
# [23:50] <franksalim> grantg: i won't twist your arm
# [23:50] <grantg> :P
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# Session Close: Wed Jul 27 00:00:00 2011

The end :)