/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-08-02 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Aug 02 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
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  25. # [00:29] <humph> gr/win 17
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  36. # [00:38] <jeffszusz> argh
  37. # [00:38] <danheberden> oof
  38. # [00:39] <jeffszusz> I wish there was a standard guideline for pricing in the web world
  39. # [00:40] <danheberden> bit coins?
  40. # [00:40] <jeffszusz> It's really hard to quote people for projects when you only have a rough idea what the work is worth and the client is completely clueless
  41. # [00:40] <jeffszusz> Lol
  42. # [00:40] <balke_macho> hourly rates are your friend =)
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  44. # [00:40] <danheberden> *high hourly rates
  45. # [00:41] <balke_macho> yes, thank you.
  46. # [00:41] <danheberden> like at LEAST 12 an hour
  47. # [00:41] <jeffszusz> I quoted someone $1,000 dollars (I understand that's way below industry average, almost charity on my part) for an ecommerce site based on Zen-Cart
  48. # [00:41] <jeffszusz> and he was flabbergasted
  49. # [00:41] <danheberden> that's when you let him get the guy that'll do it on craigslist for $100 first
  50. # [00:42] <jeffszusz> the "other guy" offered to do it for 600
  51. # [00:42] <jeffszusz> if the other guy exists and isn't a bargaining tool
  52. # [00:42] <danheberden> if you go to a dealership and balk that the brand new car isn't $400, is it you or the dealer that's out of your mind?
  53. # [00:42] <jeffszusz> lol
  54. # [00:43] <jeffszusz> ah yes of course, but
  55. # [00:43] <jeffszusz> this guy was in "I was under the impression that this would be a friendship thing" mode
  56. # [00:43] <danheberden> wonder if that works on hookers
  57. # [00:43] <jeffszusz> as if your doctor friend would give you a deal on your pancreatic surgery
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  59. # [00:44] <danheberden> he might, you just also might wake up sans a kidney
  60. # [00:44] <balke_macho> I got out of the freelance game long ago, but what I learned was, quote the real price. if the client doesn't like it then they probably aren't a fit.
  61. # [00:44] <danheberden> and work for friends is an awful idea
  62. # [00:44] <danheberden> period
  63. # [00:44] <balke_macho> yep
  64. # [00:45] <jeffszusz> he's not even a friend, he's an acquaintance - a fellow student, in an elective I had.
  65. # [00:45] <jeffszusz> lol
  66. # [00:45] <jeffszusz> Also I don't even KNOW the real price
  67. # [00:45] <jeffszusz> which is a big problem for me.
  68. # [00:45] <balke_macho> by real price i meant real hourly rate you expect.
  69. # [00:45] <jeffszusz> right
  70. # [00:45] <balke_macho> and then you have to estimate hours, just pad it a lot if you're unsure.
  71. # [00:45] <jeffszusz> the city I live in is what we call a "Lunchbox" town
  72. # [00:45] <balke_macho> always easier to come under than over.
  73. # [00:45] <danheberden> twss
  74. # [00:46] <balke_macho> zing!
  75. # [00:46] <jeffszusz> aka everyone wants wal-mart prices for everything
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  78. # [00:46] <jeffszusz> and nobody wants to pay by the hour for anything because they don't like the idea of multiplying your hourly rate by an unknown
  79. # [00:46] <balke_macho> luckily in your line of work you don't need to be in the same place as your clientele
  80. # [00:46] <jeffszusz> (i am moving away to a real city once I graduate)
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  84. # [00:47] <jeffszusz> anyone here ever do a small e-commerce site and able/willing to share how much they charged for it?
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  103. # [01:27] <xonecas> o/
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  119. # [02:03] <carpeliam> i was planning on giving an html5-themed talk to my department, mostly on javascript. i was hoping to reuse the io2011 html5wow presentation source, and use my own slide content, but mention the original presentation and provide a link to it. is there anything i should do? i want to stay on the right side of the license, and also, i don't want to be a dick.
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  142. # [02:54] <paul_irish> carpeliam: do whatever you want
  143. # [02:54] <paul_irish> i think the license is MIT on code and CC on text
  144. # [02:54] <carpeliam> paul_irish: thanks!
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  163. # [03:29] <paul_irish> whoaaaaa http://cake23.de/diffusion-mix.html zooooooooooom
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  226. # [06:20] <daleharvey> whats the best resource for identifying user agent strings
  227. # [06:20] <paul_irish> whatcha mean
  228. # [06:21] <paul_irish> the best parser?
  229. # [06:21] <paul_irish> https://github.com/bestiejs/platform.js
  230. # [06:21] <daleharvey> preferably some canonical list of regular expressions I can use to identify different browsers and their versions
  231. # [06:22] <paul_irish> but i've also used
  232. # [06:22] <daleharvey> purely from the user agent string
  233. # [06:22] <paul_irish> https://github.com/tobie/ua-parser
  234. # [06:22] <paul_irish> which has a regexes.json
  235. # [06:22] <paul_irish> i'd choose between those two
  236. # [06:23] <daleharvey> ok sweet that one looks good, cheers
  237. # [06:23] <daleharvey> I had a dumb idea today, but it should only take a couple of hours to code so figured I would just do it
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  239. # [06:24] <daleharvey> give everyone a <img src="://myhost.com/spacer.gif" /> link to embed in their page, collect the results and publish the browser stats
  240. # [06:25] <daleharvey> anonymously
  241. # [06:25] <paul_irish> sounds like browserscope
  242. # 03[06:25] * Joins: dr0id (~andy@unaffiliated/dr0id)
  243. # [06:25] <paul_irish> we collect modernizr results on everyone that that hits modernizr.com and throw it to browserscope
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  245. # [06:27] <daleharvey> yeh kinda like that, but ultra lofi
  246. # [06:27] <paul_irish> okok
  247. # [06:27] <paul_irish> what stats you gonna collect
  248. # [06:27] <paul_irish> also anton was open to using disqus to collect random stats
  249. # [06:29] <daleharvey> right now literally just user-agent string, I may do a reverse ip lookup for geo, I dont want to execute any js on the client
  250. # [06:29] <paul_irish> k
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  252. # [06:29] <paul_irish> node, then/
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  264. # [06:59] <daleharvey> finished!
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  266. # 06[07:03] * tw2113 cheers
  267. # [07:03] <tw2113> yo cgcardonaWORK
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  274. # [07:17] <slifty> night night everyone!
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  281. # [07:30] <bourbaki> is there any framework for html5 that handles 2d ui , svg and multi touch?
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  287. # [07:42] <thatryan> paul_irish: iz u here?
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  294. # [07:46] <paul_irish> thatryan .
  295. # [07:47] <thatryan> sir, I could use some deep jquery intellect if you have a sec. im setting breakpoints running the unminified source trying to find what its catching on but cant interpret it :/
  296. # [07:48] <thatryan> matches.call( document.documentElement, "[test!=''] : sizzle" );
  297. # [07:48] <bourbaki> how can i use the onclick message for right mouse button? can i disable the browser right click somehow?
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  299. # [08:01] <xp_prg> hi all, I forgot the other type fast rendering functinality of html5, there is canvas, webgl, and one other one, what is it?
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  306. # [08:15] <louxiu> Hi all. If i use HTML5 video tag to supply video, is there some requirement on the server side, like special streaming server? If not, how it get the ability that streaming server have. Like handle much larger traffic loads, detect users' connection speeds and supply appropriate files automatically etc.
  307. # [08:21] <Moo--> louxiu: no
  308. # [08:21] <Moo--> louxiu: it can play static video files
  309. # [08:22] <Moo--> louxiu: also if you mean by streaming "live streaming" forget it
  310. # [08:22] <Moo--> HTML5 does not support it yet
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  312. # [08:22] <Moo--> louxiu: also file format selection is performed on the client, not on the server
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  314. # [08:25] <irae_> Moo-- , louxiu : I believe that "live streaming" can be done in iOS and Safari by an Apple proposal. I think Adobe even is planning to support the same protocol. I don't know about other browser vendors.
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  316. # [08:26] <irae_> Moo-- louxiu http://developer.apple.com/resources/http-streaming/
  317. # [08:26] <irae_> http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2011/04/adobe-throws-in-towel-adopts-http-live-streaming-for-ios.ars
  318. # [08:26] <tw2113> it'll be in mp4 then, which not everyone will support
  319. # [08:27] <louxiu> irae_:yeah, apple use Apple HTTP Adaptive Streaming for iPhone/iPad. It also use the video tag.
  320. # [08:27] <irae_> tw2113: yep, I was just contributing some up to date info
  321. # [08:27] <tw2113> :P
  322. # [08:27] <Moo--> irae_: that translates as "if you do live streaming use flash"
  323. # [08:27] <Moo--> for desktop
  324. # [08:28] <irae_> Moo--: sorry, I don't meant that at all
  325. # [08:28] <Moo--> but I do :)
  326. # [08:29] <irae_> What i meant was that this could end up being a well adopted protocol after all
  327. # [08:29] <Moo--> but it is not yet there
  328. # [08:29] <Moo--> however, hope for better future we have!
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  331. # [08:30] <irae_> It's a great topic to be keeping up.
  332. # [08:30] <louxiu> Moo--:If i use flash. I need to use streaming server like FMS or red5. But if i use html5 video tag, there is no requirement in server side. It seems amazing.
  333. # [08:31] <Moo--> louxiu: flash can play http MP4 files as well
  334. # [08:31] <irae_> louxiu: for on demand you don't have any requirements on the server for flash
  335. # [08:31] <Moo--> louxiu: why do you think so?
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  338. # [08:32] <irae_> all on demand technologies will paly well on any static servers, all live streaming or DRM solutions will need some special server and only flash and silverlight are viable solutions as of today.
  339. # [08:33] <irae_> at least this is as far as i know… :)
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  342. # [08:34] <louxiu> Moo--, irae_: I think i mis-understand. Html5 doesn't support live streaming, right?
  343. # [08:35] <tw2113> not at the current time
  344. # [08:35] <louxiu> special server are required when you need live streaming?
  345. # [08:35] <Moo--> louxiu: yes
  346. # [08:35] <Moo--> live = not playing video clips
  347. # [08:36] <Moo--> live = content coming straight from camera
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  351. # [08:39] <louxiu> Sorry, I am not clear. What about youtube, is it live?
  352. # [08:40] <Moo--> no
  353. # [08:40] <Moo--> louxiu: you can play video clips which are mp4 files on your server with flash without needing special server software*
  354. # [08:41] <Moo--> louxiu: go study http://flowplayer.net/
  355. # [08:42] <louxiu> Moo--:Thanks
  356. # 02[08:43] * Quits: pradeebv (~pradeebv@nat/yahoo/x-wxyvmnmrvdivgzdl) (Quit: pradeebv)
  357. # [08:44] <louxiu> Moo--: Apple support Html5 <video> and HTTP Adaptive Streaming for iPhone/iPad. Which method does youtube use?
  358. # [08:45] <irae_> louxiu: Youtube is 99% static files. AFAIK some videos, most notably DRM stuff you see from Vevo inside youtube itself uses flash streaming server or similar special server stuff. A little while ago YT began streaming some live events. This few live sessions also must use special case servers.
  359. # [08:47] <Moo--> louxiu: please go study first - we are answering the same questions now again and again. you need to grasp some basics first.
  360. # [08:47] <tw2113> youtube uses voodoo
  361. # [08:47] <irae_> louxiu: what Moo-- said :)
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  363. # 06[08:48] * tw2113 breaks out the sarcasm
  364. # [08:48] <louxiu> Moo--, irae: Sorry. I will.
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  367. # [08:49] <irae_> louxiu: you can find some good docs here: http://www.longtailvideo.com/support/jw-player/jw-player-for-flash-v5 -- but google and wikipedia will be your friends also on this journey :)
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  369. # [08:50] <danbeam> http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser-GB-monthly-201008-201107
  370. # [08:51] <danbeam> (sorry if double posted)
  371. # [08:51] <louxiu> Thanks
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  373. # [08:53] <danbeam> http://gs.statcounter.com/press/chrome-overtakes-firefox-for-uk-number-two-browser-spot-in-july
  374. # [08:56] <daleharvey> heh sweet, I got that regex thing inside a couchdb map function
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  401. # [09:54] <daleharvey> yay, got the first thing doing a full round trip, all I really need to do is ui now
  402. # [09:54] <daleharvey> http://couch.arandomurl.com/ping/_design/webui/index.html (cc paul_irish)
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  410. # [10:07] <louxiu> irae_, Moo--, danbeam: I read the stuff you gave me and what you say again. It is very useful. The function of FMS and red5 stuff confused me. I think i understand now. Thanks again. :-)
  411. # [10:09] <Moo--> louxiu: good job!
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  447. # [11:22] <Zeddy> i have a problem conserning the cache manifest, im building a webpage for mobile devices which lets the user download all the required files for offline use, but the content can be in different languages depending on the url mapviewer.php?lang=1 ?lang=2 and so on. This results in double downloading if the user visits both languages, which obviously is the way it should work.. but i would like
  448. # [11:22] <Zeddy> to delete all cached files when the user visits another language, otherwise the amount of cached data will exeed the limitations that mobile browsers have
  449. # [11:22] <Zeddy> examples
  450. # [11:22] <Zeddy> http://www.kokonniemi.fi/guide/index.php/view/map/1/1/1 <- finnish language
  451. # [11:22] <Zeddy> http://www.kokonniemi.fi/guide/index.php/view/map/1/2/1 <- english language
  452. # [11:23] <Zeddy> visit the first and you have 1.4 Mb cached, then visit the second and you have 2.8 Mb cached
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  455. # [11:28] <Zeddy> the manifest file is also dynamic
  456. # [11:28] <Zeddy> manifest.php?lang=1
  457. # [11:28] <Zeddy> could i pass the manifest file some parameters to kill the ?lang=1 manifest?
  458. # [11:29] <Zeddy> manifest.php?lang=1&kill=1
  459. # [11:29] <Zeddy> if($_GET['kill'] == 1){
  460. # [11:29] <Zeddy> and output nothing?
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  474. # [11:41] <Zeddy> ARGGHJH
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  487. # [12:09] <FireFly> Hm, I wonder if it'd be proper to use a figure+figcaption combo to mark up a "box" with a caption.. like the ones on wikipedia's main page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page
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  495. # [12:13] <FireFly> Or maybe a section element with a header element would be better
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  502. # [12:36] <Zeddy> did anyone perhaps answer my question while i was away?
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  504. # [12:37] <dr0id> no
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  506. # [12:38] <Zeddy> too bad
  507. # [12:39] <Zeddy> anyhows, what is causing it to create duplicate manifests? The difference in the manifest url or the difference in the page url?
  508. # [12:39] <Zeddy> imo it should be the difference in the manifest url
  509. # [12:42] <beevi7> does it (semantically) make sense to have a h3 headline following a h1 (<h1>headline</h1> Text <h3>Subheadline</h3>) or should the order _always_ be h1 -> h2 -> h3 ?
  510. # [12:48] <Zeddy> what happends if a domain has 9Mb cached, and then it starts caching something else, will the old caches be deleted when the 10Mb limit is reached or will it just stop caching the new stuff? O_oi
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  512. # [13:03] <Zeddy> i just can't believe html5 cache manifest is missing a method for clearing the cache.
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  528. # [13:26] <HugoDaniel> hi
  529. # [13:27] <HugoDaniel> how do i change the message that shows up when a required input field is not filled ?
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  546. # [13:57] <gavin_huang> Can I make yepnope to execute a script immediately without waiting for scripts below it to be downloaded?
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  568. # [14:51] <Michael> gavin_huang, You can use deferred on the other scripts
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  571. # [14:57] <amigojapan> howcome canvas.width = canvas.width; doesnt seem to clear the canvas on the iphone, but it does on firefox? how can I clear the canvas on the iphone?
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  575. # [15:08] <gavin_huang> Michael, thanks. did you mean the defer attribute of script elements?
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  591. # [15:22] <Zeddy> Can i use Session variables in the manifest file to get dynamic manifest files but with the same URI ?
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  593. # [15:24] <mark_scz> i'm having a problem with canvas element, i can change the box style when i'm drawing boxes and have different coloured boxes with context.fillstyle but if i try it with lines using context.strokestyle, everything on the page turns out the same colour. Even when i do multipe context.strokes inbetween.
  594. # 03[15:24] * dr0id is now known as scal3
  595. # [15:25] <Michael> gavin_huang, Yes
  596. # 03[15:26] * scal3 is now known as w3bscal3
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  599. # [15:28] <freelance> anybody knows smartsheet?
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  601. # [15:28] <hifi810> smartsheet?
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  604. # [15:31] <w3bscal3> heh, how did you read his question hifi810 ?
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  611. # [15:34] <hifi810> c ihave some1s attention
  612. # [15:34] <hifi810> :P
  613. # [15:35] <hifi810> how can i make one column as child parent relationship
  614. # [15:36] <hifi810> like indenting it makes it the child of above row
  615. # [15:36] <hifi810> and outdenting it makes it parent
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  617. # [15:39] <hifi810> anybody there
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  620. # [15:51] <Zeddy> uhm what event is fired when im offline and it has loaded all the cached files?
  621. # [15:51] <Zeddy> its none of these
  622. # [15:51] <Zeddy> window.applicationCache.addEventListener('cached', cacheDone, false);
  623. # [15:51] <Zeddy> window.applicationCache.addEventListener('noupdate', cacheDone, false); // launched in case the manifest files were allready downloaded
  624. # [15:51] <Zeddy> window.applicationCache.addEventListener('updateready', cacheDone, false); // launched in case the manifest files were allready downloaded
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  645. # [16:14] <Zeddy> well wtf
  646. # [16:14] <Zeddy> whats wrong with this url now :\
  647. # [16:14] <Zeddy> http://kokonniemi.fi/guide/index.php/manifest?map=1&lang=1
  648. # [16:15] <Moo--> Zeddy: use wget -S to see the headers it is posting
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  650. # 03[16:23] * Joins: Zeddy (~Zeddy@cable-prv-fe9cdc00-246.dhcp.inet.fi)
  651. # [16:23] <Zeddy> Application Cache Error event: Manifest fetch failed (-1) http://kokonniemi.fi/guide/index.php/manifest?map=1&lang=1
  652. # [16:23] <Zeddy> fuck the what
  653. # 03[16:25] * Joins: sephr (~Eli@c-98-235-63-240.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
  654. # [16:25] <Moo--> Zeddy: wget -s
  655. # [16:25] <Moo--> you see if it is coming or not
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  657. # [16:27] <Zeddy> where do i run that?
  658. # [16:27] <Zeddy> im not on linux
  659. # [16:27] <Moo--> Zeddy: on your UNIX command prompt
  660. # [16:28] <Zeddy> well im not on unix
  661. # [16:28] <Moo--> Zeddy: OSX does also :)
  662. # [16:28] <Moo--> Zeddy: well too bad then :)
  663. # [16:28] <Zeddy> im not on OSX either :p
  664. # [16:28] <Zeddy> can you give it a try for me?
  665. # [16:28] <Zeddy> http://kokonniemi.fi/guide/index.php/manifest/view/1/1
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  667. # [16:28] <Moo--> Zeddy: I really hate debugging someone else's problems but I'll do
  668. # [16:28] <Zeddy> the validator is now telling me the cache file must start with cache manifest
  669. # [16:28] <Zeddy> but it does :\
  670. # [16:28] <Zeddy> i understand you :p
  671. # [16:29] <Moo--> it starts with CACHE MANIFEST
  672. # [16:29] <Moo--> newline missing at the end
  673. # [16:29] <Zeddy> Line 1: Cache manifest must start with CACHE MANIFEST in first line.
  674. # [16:29] <Zeddy> http://kokonniemi.fi/guide/assets/js/leaflet/leaflet.js
  675. # [16:29] <Zeddy> wtf
  676. # [16:29] <Zeddy> according to http://manifest-validator.com/validate
  677. # [16:30] <Moo--> you are mixing unix new lines and windows new lines
  678. # [16:30] <Moo--> and output contains extra tabs and such¨
  679. # [16:30] <Moo--> please fix your code first :)
  680. # [16:30] <Zeddy> where am i using windows new lines?
  681. # [16:31] <Moo--> http://pastie.org/2309300
  682. # [16:31] <Zeddy> http://pastebin.com/ap581CtJ
  683. # [16:31] <Moo--> Zeddy: I suggest you start learning Linux :)
  684. # 02[16:31] * Quits: RaceCondition (~erik@dsl48-249.uninet.ee) (Quit: RaceCondition)
  685. # [16:32] <Moo--> Zeddy: or just install cygwin as a shortcut
  686. # [16:33] <Moo--> you can figure out newlines easily with some barebone text editor
  687. # [16:33] <Moo--> like vi
  688. # 03[16:33] * Joins: kadiks (~kadiks@APuteaux-652-1-129-158.w82-124.abo.wanadoo.fr)
  689. # [16:34] <Zeddy> but im not able to define the linebreak created by the editor :|
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  692. # [16:37] <irae_> Zeddy: I was working on a project that, for the same reasons, we started looking into local storage and websql to store the html files and/or the localized templates. All javascript, CSS and other static assets would go into one language agnostic manifest and then we would do a series of ajax calls to get all localized html files and/or templates for that language.
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  696. # [16:39] <Moo--> Zeddy: get a decent editor then
  697. # [16:39] <Moo--> Zeddy: I think windows has at least Notepad++ and Context
  698. # [16:41] <Zeddy> Moo--: http://kokonniemi.fi/guide/index.php/manifest/view/1/1
  699. # [16:41] <Zeddy> better?
  700. # [16:41] <Moo--> lemme check
  701. # [16:41] <Zeddy> i dont think that will make any diffference however
  702. # [16:42] <Moo--> it might make for the validator if it's misinterpreting newlines
  703. # [16:42] <Zeddy> http://manifest-validator.com/validate
  704. # [16:42] <Zeddy> Line 1: Cache manifest must start with CACHE MANIFEST in first line.
  705. # [16:42] <Zeddy> http://kokonniemi.fi/guide/upload_pic/resize_1311853613.pnghttp://kokonniemi.fi/guide/upload_pic/resize_1307774968.jpghttp://kokonniemi.fi/guide/upload_pic/resize_1312209496.png
  706. # [16:42] <Zeddy> lol
  707. # [16:42] <Moo--> Zeddy: still the same file
  708. # [16:42] <Moo--> no fixes
  709. # [16:42] <Zeddy> wtf
  710. # [16:42] <irae_> Zeddy: I highly encourage you not to generate your manifest file dynamically.
  711. # [16:42] <Zeddy> why?
  712. # [16:42] <Zeddy> i have thousands of map tile images that need to be cached
  713. # [16:43] <Zeddy> and the tiles needed depends on where the person creating the guide has places POIS
  714. # [16:43] <irae_> you are already seeing the trouble dealing with one manifest file
  715. # [16:43] <Moo--> Zeddy: cache the manifest file with cache
  716. # [16:43] <Moo--> Zeddy: front end caching server like apache
  717. # [16:43] <Moo--> or use memcached on PHP
  718. # [16:44] <Moo--> Zeddy: there is even one tutorial about generating manifest with PHP
  719. # [16:44] <Moo--> don't remember URL though :/
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  721. # [16:44] <Zeddy> huh, i allready managed to generate the manifest using PHP
  722. # [16:45] <Zeddy> This document was successfully checked
  723. # [16:45] <Zeddy> using direct input
  724. # [16:45] <Zeddy> http://pastebin.com/Tw4A1wYV
  725. # [16:45] <Zeddy> theres the php code
  726. # 03[16:46] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.181.112.147)
  727. # [16:46] <Moo--> Zeddy: I think
  728. # [16:46] <Moo--> that because you are mixing echo \n
  729. # [16:46] <Moo--> and normal PHP new lines
  730. # [16:46] <Moo--> you are getting messed up
  731. # [16:46] <Moo--> just echo everything?
  732. # [16:46] <Zeddy> hmm.. damnit, i guess i'll just have to do that
  733. # [16:46] <Moo--> or you need some magical PHP setting
  734. # [16:47] <Moo--> Zeddy: PHP has variable subtituion for "" strings so it should not bloat the code
  735. # [16:48] <Moo--> and what I would do I'd put source file list to array() or a multine text string which I'll split
  736. # 03[16:48] * Joins: furf (~furf@rrcs-184-74-182-82.nyc.biz.rr.com)
  737. # [16:48] <Moo--> and then output in for loop
  738. # 02[16:48] * Quits: x29a (~x29a@unaffiliated/x29a) (Quit: tiuQ)
  739. # [16:49] <Moo--> in this way the code is more maintainable
  740. # [16:49] <Moo--> if you need to change baseurl or something
  741. # [16:49] <Moo--> you don't need to search and replace the whole file
  742. # [16:49] <Moo--> you just change it in one point
  743. # [16:49] <Zeddy> arghhh
  744. # [16:49] <Zeddy> http://kokonniemi.fi/guide/index.php/manifest/view/1/1
  745. # [16:50] <Zeddy> http://pastebin.com/UExuR3JZ
  746. # [16:50] <Zeddy> still invalid
  747. # [16:51] <Moo--> Zeddy: looks better now!
  748. # [16:51] <Zeddy> but that damn validator still gets it all messed up when giving it the direct url to the manifest :\
  749. # [16:52] <Moo--> hmm
  750. # [16:53] <Moo--> the HTTP response does not have Content length
  751. # [16:53] <Moo--> I am not sure if it is required
  752. # 02[16:53] * Quits: mokush (~quassel@79.116.66.234) (Remote host closed the connection)
  753. # [16:54] <Moo--> probably not
  754. # [16:54] <Moo--> I don't see any reason why it would be required
  755. # [16:54] <Zeddy> Application Cache Error event: Invalid manifest mime type (text/html) http://kokonniemi.fi/guide/index.php/manifest?map=1&lang=1
  756. # [16:55] <Zeddy> header('Content-Type: text/cache-manifest');
  757. # [16:55] <Zeddy> makes no sense whatsoever
  758. # [16:56] <Moo--> http://kokonniemi.fi/guide/index.php/manifest?map=1&lang=1 gives response of 0 length
  759. # [16:56] <Moo--> Content-Type: text/html
  760. # [16:56] <Moo--> Length: 0 [text/html]
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  762. # [16:57] <Moo--> Zeddy: just get cheap shell accout, like kapsi.fi, and run command-line debug tools there
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  764. # [16:58] <Zeddy> brb offline test :p
  765. # [16:59] <Zeddy> :\
  766. # [16:59] <Zeddy> didn't work
  767. # [16:59] <Zeddy> Application Cache Error event: Manifest fetch failed (-1) http://www.kokonniemi.fi/guide/index.php/manifest/view/1/1
  768. # [16:59] <Zeddy> but in offline mode i can access the manifest file without any problem
  769. # [17:02] <Moo--> content type is right, but length is missing
  770. # [17:02] <Moo--> I'd say Length is only reason it can complain
  771. # [17:02] <Moo--> fi
  772. # [17:02] <Moo--> file looks ok
  773. # [17:02] <Zeddy> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6813608/html5-manifest-fetch-failed-1
  774. # [17:03] <Zeddy> "The manifest load fail error is exactly what you have to expect if the server can't be reached. The manifest can't be loaded. It's a little bit confusing that this is reported as an error - but that's what the standard says. All you have to do is ignore the error and you should have an offline cached webapp."
  775. # [17:03] <Zeddy> it seems that all my files are available offline
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  782. # [17:07] <Zeddy> allright!
  783. # [17:07] <Zeddy> it works x)
  784. # 02[17:07] * Quits: w3bscal3 (~andy@unaffiliated/dr0id) (Quit: Leaving.)
  785. # [17:08] <Zeddy> the confusing part was i had a "downloading" page for displaying the progress of the cache download, this page just didn't move forward if i was offline and it got stuck there, so i just had to do if(!navigator.onLine){ -> proceed loading page normally
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  788. # [17:10] <Moo--> Zeddy: good job
  789. # [17:10] <Zeddy> thanks for the help man
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  793. # [17:11] <Zeddy> one annyoing thing on the android browser is, when in flight mode, and visiting a cached page it still pops up a message telling the user they should be online to view the page even though the page is loaded in the background
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  797. # [17:16] <Moo--> Zeddy: tell me how to file a bug against android and I'll give you a beer
  798. # [17:16] <Moo--> because android browser has tons of other bugs
  799. # [17:16] <Moo--> but I have not yet find a way where to report them
  800. # [17:16] <Zeddy> haha yeah, its impossible, i've tried
  801. # 03[17:17] * Joins: benv (~benv@99-7-171-41.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
  802. # [17:18] <Zeddy> now i just need to figure out how to prevent my page from downloading any other tiles then the ones that are really required
  803. # [17:19] <mark_scz> i'm having a problem with canvas element, i can change the box style when i'm drawing boxes and have different coloured boxes with context.fillstyle but if i try it with lines using context.strokestyle, everything on the page turns out the same colour. Even when i do multipe context.strokes inbetween. I asked this question a while back but got no responses, trying it again i hope people don't mind.
  804. # [17:21] <Moo--> mark_scz: please have a test code on jsfiddle.net
  805. # [17:21] <Zeddy> ahhh i know!
  806. # [17:21] <Zeddy> i remove NETWORK: * completely x) EASY
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  808. # [17:24] <Zeddy> oh
  809. # [17:24] <Zeddy> that was only on chrome ---
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  842. # [18:05] <WebDragon> one thing I just realized. we've had doctype for ages to signify which version of HTML we're using for standards compliance, but have no indicators for which version of css we're shooting for
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  844. # [18:07] <WebDragon> because "what-if", at some point in the future the html/css becomes more modular in the browsers and more able to be easily and incrementally tweaked over time by their relative working groups
  845. # [18:07] <WebDragon> (i.e. at both ends)
  846. # [18:07] <hober> this is by design
  847. # [18:07] <WebDragon> I understand that.
  848. # [18:08] <WebDragon> you're missing what I'm suggesting.. as a way to identify specifically the css version that you're coding for, if future changes come out, the site would still display properly with the css version it's specified for.
  849. # [18:08] <WebDragon> just a thought I was having
  850. # [18:08] <WebDragon> nothing more. notion just occurred to me. similar to how other software compatibilities work
  851. # [18:09] <WebDragon> not "support for at least this version", mind you
  852. # [18:09] <hober> I'm not missing what you're suggesting.
  853. # [18:09] <WebDragon> ah I thought you were going someplace else with that
  854. # [18:10] <WebDragon> still, I dream of a day when all browsers are created equal in support for the bloody standards :|
  855. # [18:10] <hober> we're working on that :)
  856. # [18:10] <WebDragon> and unfortunately it's us web designers who let them get away with it
  857. # [18:10] <paul_irish> hober: : did todd farhner basically invent the idea of switching mdoes via doctype?
  858. # [18:10] <WebDragon> and why it's gone on this damn long :)
  859. # [18:11] <WebDragon> heya paul_irish :)
  860. # [18:11] <paul_irish> there was a old mailing list post that @html5 linked to the other day that indicated that
  861. # [18:11] <paul_irish> hey WebDragon :):)
  862. # [18:11] <hober> paul_irish: it was someone on the ie/mac team; i'll ask tantek who it was
  863. # [18:11] <paul_irish> ah really
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  865. # [18:12] <paul_irish> WebDragon: btw the @supports rule that moz proposed will help with "versioning"
  866. # [18:12] <hober> assuming the ua doesn't lie to you about what it supports
  867. # [18:12] <WebDragon> ah so, that .. is new and news to me. is that googleable ?
  868. # [18:12] <hober> e.g. hasFeature
  869. # [18:13] <hober> google for 'css feature queries' or some such
  870. # [18:13] <paul_irish> hober: yeah. the specificity of @support is nice tho
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  872. # [18:13] <WebDragon> wait, that makes the css sound even more messy than designing sites for multiple mobile browsers and serving different styles/doctypes depending
  873. # [18:13] <paul_irish> and that you just say exactly the prop:value pair you wanna use
  874. # [18:13] <paul_irish> no it doesntttttttttt
  875. # [18:14] <WebDragon> maybe I better look at the spec before I open my mouth any more LOL
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  879. # [18:16] <paul_irish> WebDragon: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Apr/0428.html
  880. # [18:16] <paul_irish> thats the start of the thread
  881. # [18:16] <WebDragon> cool
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  894. # [18:37] <noob> how do i add rows to a table in html
  895. # [18:37] <noob> dpeending on the number of columns
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  906. # [18:52] <row657> hi all
  907. # [18:52] <irae_> noob: it's been a while since I've needed that, but I always had an empty line, just with the table cells, and I cloned that via Javascript when I needed a new row.
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  909. # [18:53] <row657> $('#add_row').click(function(){
  910. # [18:53] <VolDroN> hi all
  911. # [18:53] <irae_> noob: maybe someone has an updated better technic on that. I think it's better, performance-wise, to use some template language to generate the new html instead of cloning it.
  912. # [18:54] <row657> okay
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  914. # [18:54] <row657> is tht correct
  915. # [18:54] <row657> the one which i pasted?
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  918. # [18:58] <Michael> You spell technic like a DJ
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  929. # [19:15] <danielfilho> yay! yayquery :)
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  935. # [19:22] <irae_> yay! yaquery x2
  936. # [19:22] <irae_> ;)
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  938. # [19:25] <Michael> WHat does this effectively do?
  939. # [19:25] <Michael> float: right;
  940. # [19:25] <Michael> clear: right;
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  942. # [19:25] <Michael> Seems like the clear should be first
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  1023. # 06[21:53] * tw2113 is debating going back to Fx for my dev browser
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  1026. # [21:58] <paul_irish> tw2113: whyyyyyy
  1027. # [21:59] <tw2113> because i always seem to shuffle around browser use, and i've used chrome as it for most of the year
  1028. # [21:59] <tw2113> actually if you consider my old job, i've used chrome for a year
  1029. # [21:59] <paul_irish> interesting rationale.
  1030. # [21:59] <Ms2ger> paul_irish, because it's the best, obviously :)
  1031. # [21:59] <paul_irish> okeydoke
  1032. # [22:00] <paul_irish> Ms2ger: obviously!
  1033. # [22:00] <tw2113> both have their strong merits and are both good dev browsers
  1034. # [22:01] <paul_irish> Ms2ger: what do you think about an API to pull browser compat info from the MDC
  1035. # [22:01] <Ms2ger> Hey, our USP! :)
  1036. # [22:02] <paul_irish> unique selling proposition?
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  1038. # [22:02] <Ms2ger> Well, Unique Giving-away Position
  1039. # [22:02] <paul_irish> caniuse has one but mdc has a larger scope and greater maintainability potential so i'd rather that houses the canonical data
  1040. # 06[22:02] * tw2113 watches/listens to Nyman at the London Ajax Mobile event
  1041. # [22:02] <paul_irish> also > quirksmode
  1042. # [22:03] <paul_irish> yeah totally
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  1044. # [22:03] <Ms2ger> I guess that would be good
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  1046. # [22:04] <paul_irish> yeah there are lots of sites and apps that could use it
  1047. # [22:04] <Ms2ger> The spec! :)
  1048. # [22:04] <paul_irish> also many people have mentioned.. "wouldnt it be cool if in your IDE when you type elem.dataset..... it reminds you what browsers support that natively.."
  1049. # [22:04] <paul_irish> yeah we're thinking of getting that info into developers.whatwg.org right now actually
  1050. # [22:05] <Ms2ger> If you can get kitsune to support it... :)
  1051. # [22:07] <BrianBlakely> I need a batch png compressor? Suggestions?
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  1053. # [22:07] <BrianBlakely> I'm leaning towards Smush.it because it's what I know
  1054. # [22:08] <paul_irish> http://pornel.net/pngquant
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  1058. # [22:12] <BrianBlakely> paul_irish: Thanks Paul. I don't think there's a "batch optimize" feature, or is there?
  1059. # [22:12] <snover> for i in *.png; do pngquant "$i"; done
  1060. # [22:13] <snover> boom.
  1061. # [22:13] <snover> coincidentally my optimization string is a bit longer
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  1063. # [22:13] <snover> for i in *.png; do pngcrush -rem alla "$i" "$i.2"; mv "$i.2" "$i"; optipng -O99 "$i"; pngout "$i"; done
  1064. # [22:14] <BrianBlakely> Bash scripting, fancy-tastic
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  1089. # [23:12] <daleharvey> paul_irish: can you point me to any of the particularly nice one page javascript utility pages that look pretty?
  1090. # [23:12] <daleharvey> like caniuse.com etc
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  1094. # [23:14] <daleharvey> getting kinda sick of trying to make flot do what I want, think I might move to raphael, if anyone can suggest other graphing libs then would appreciate
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  1096. # 03[23:18] * nimbupani is now known as nimbu
  1097. # [23:22] <Jayflux> haha I've spent all day on flot today
  1098. # [23:22] <Jayflux> it can be a nightmare daleharvey but i found emailing ole larsen helped. He usually replies. He's the guy who made it
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  1113. # [23:56] <sss> hello
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  1116. # [23:59] <keithclarkcouk> hi
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  1118. # Session Close: Wed Aug 03 00:00:00 2011

The end :)