/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-08-07 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sun Aug 07 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
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  19. # [00:51] <andrewjbaker> Anyone here working on or interested in browser-based games that isn't one of jetienne, cylentwolf, monteslu, iaincarsberg, footyfish, or smus_?^^
  20. # [00:51] <Aric> anyone able to help out with a jquery problem i hit?
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  162. # [07:29] <fwaokda> is it possible to get drag and drop capability in html5 with mobile devices, such as the motorola xoom?
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  200. # [09:54] <Zeddy> Hey, i have everything else working in my offline webapp, except, i still haven't figured out how to reset a manifest file. The problem is i call my manifest file with parameters manifest.php?map=1, or manifest.php?map=2.. The problem is, it creates two separate caches and the amount of data stored is doubled
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  202. # [09:54] <Zeddy> can i resolve this issue by using php session variables?
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  266. # [13:23] <maxmande1s> Hey remy, I know it's been a month since you were up in Edinburgh, but just wanted to thank you again for your brilliant talk at The Highland Fling conference!
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  290. # [14:38] <RLa> if i want to add history support for ajax page, i should use pushState?
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  292. # [14:46] <RLa> nvm, found nice example from http://html5.gingerhost.com/
  293. # [14:47] <RLa> it even more-less works in firefox 3.6
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  295. # [14:55] <Ms2ger> Yes, that's exactly what pushState is for
  296. # [14:58] <daleharvey> pushState kinda annoys me
  297. # [14:59] <Ms2ger> Tell me about it
  298. # [15:01] <daleharvey> I dont want to handle every click event on a page in userland, the old <a href="...."> and $(document).bind("hashchange", fun.... was a nice model
  299. # [15:04] <daleharvey> would have been nice if "pushState" had just been implemented with plain <a href="/newpage"> and just triggered a urlChanged event, if that was never handled or returned true then it did the normal page load
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  307. # [15:13] <RLa> what html5 book would you recommend for web app developer?
  308. # [15:16] <daleharvey> I "won" a copy of pro html5 programming, it doesnt actually seem like a bad book, but I would really suggest online resources over a book
  309. # [15:18] <RLa> i actually prefer books for getting better overview, online tutorials are mostly about specific features
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  311. # [15:21] <daleharvey> as pointed out in the title http://diveintohtml5.org/ is a really good overview about the basic html5 stuff, http://slides.html5rocks.com/#landing-slide is also awesome, the rest is pretty dependant on what type of "web apps" you are referring to
  312. # [15:22] <RLa> by web app i mean usual data-driven app
  313. # [15:22] <RLa> that also means i need backend
  314. # [15:23] <RLa> i.e some kind of web framework
  315. # [15:23] <RLa> i'm not sure if there is much difference in backend tech considering html vs html 5
  316. # [15:24] <Ms2ger> There isn't
  317. # [15:24] <daleharvey> there isnt, its just when people say html5 they usually mean they are doing more extensive javascript frontends
  318. # [15:26] <RLa> that javascript part is haunting me
  319. # [15:26] <moo-_-> there really isn't, but people are all about node.js, JSON, NoSQL and stuff ;)
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  321. # [15:27] <RLa> you can have json or xml layer: backend->json->html
  322. # [15:27] <moo-_-> RLa: this videlo series really helps you to start liking Javascript http://yuiblog.com/crockford/ (not technical though)
  323. # [15:27] <moo-_-> funny stuff
  324. # [15:27] <RLa> maybe that starts to make more sense than just generating html with backend (by jsp or other means)
  325. # [15:27] <Ms2ger> Crockford has rather uncommon view about lots of things, though
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  327. # [15:28] <RLa> json would make partial updates easier than just full pages generated by backend code
  328. # [15:28] <RLa> does that make sense?
  329. # [15:28] <Ms2ger> Dunno
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  331. # [15:29] <daleharvey> yeh thats what most of Ajax is all about
  332. # [15:30] <RLa> also, json could be consumed by other apps, not just the main frontend
  333. # [15:30] <Ms2ger> You could have your other apps consume HTML as well, but that's probably not the best of ideas
  334. # [15:31] <daleharvey> I do most of my work with a CouchDB backend, so thats fairly common for me :P
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  337. # [15:32] <RLa> daleharvey, i still need user session management, authentication etc. you still need some middle layer there
  338. # [15:32] <RLa> between database and json
  339. # [15:33] <daleharvey> sure, couch has some session management / auth built in, but it isnt enough for quite a lot of cases
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  349. # [16:05] <phrearch> html over json works well
  350. # [16:05] <phrearch> in case you want a non-page-refreshing javascript-based site
  351. # [16:06] <phrearch> in django i just render the template to a string, and stuff it in json like {data:{dom:{my_css_class:html_data}}}
  352. # [16:06] <phrearch> and let the clientside sort out where to update the dom
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  464. # [21:33] <RLa> getting my first html5 slowly running
  465. # [21:33] <RLa> anyway, i'm trying to use jquery
  466. # [21:33] <RLa> but why all jquery examples construct html using strings, not dom?
  467. # [21:34] <tbranyen> RLa: more readable?
  468. # [21:34] <tbranyen> also thats how jQuery works
  469. # [21:35] <tbranyen> it uses the DOM under the hood
  470. # [21:35] <RLa> uh
  471. # [21:35] <Ms2ger> That's the main reason I don't use jq
  472. # [21:35] <tbranyen> $("<div/>") achieves the same outcome as $(document.createElement("div"))
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  474. # [21:35] <tbranyen> Ms2ger: kind of a lame reason :-/
  475. # [21:36] <Ms2ger> That and the fact it can't tell the difference between content and IDL attributes
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  477. # [21:36] <RLa> Ms2ger, so what you use
  478. # [21:36] <Ms2ger> JavaScript
  479. # [21:37] <RLa> but for making json requests, don't you need special layer so that the code is cross-platform?
  480. # [21:37] <Ms2ger> Not really
  481. # [21:37] <RLa> ie had own weird request object, others have their own
  482. # [21:38] <Ms2ger> IE joined the rest of the world quite a while ago, no?
  483. # [21:38] <tw2113> i wish people would stop referring to html5 as some new entity of some sort
  484. # [21:38] <tw2113> it's like some people consider it a brand new technology
  485. # [21:38] <Ms2ger> tw2113, but it's going to replace Flash!!! ;)
  486. # [21:38] <gnarf> paul_irish: so when are we gonna rename the channel #html ? :)
  487. # [21:39] <tw2113> so is my ass
  488. # [21:39] <tw2113> gnarf won't happen, there's already an #html
  489. # [21:39] <RLa> Ms2ger, i have been away from web development for a long time
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  492. # [21:40] <Ms2ger> Oh, IE6 apparently doesn't do that yet
  493. # [21:40] <tw2113> what does IE6 do?
  494. # [21:40] <Ms2ger> new ActiveXObject("Msxml2.XMLHTTP.6.0");
  495. # [21:40] <Ms2ger> Says Wikipedia
  496. # [21:41] * patcito_ is now known as patcito
  497. # [21:41] <tw2113> looks like something you need a cryptographer for
  498. # [21:41] <Ms2ger> Yep
  499. # [21:41] <tw2113> did the zodiac killer user that in one of his letters?
  500. # [21:41] <RLa> i, for example, do not really care about ie6
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  502. # [21:42] <Ms2ger> That'll save you a lot of pain :)
  503. # [21:42] <tw2113> i don't even call it a browser any more
  504. # [21:42] <tw2113> it's just some program that theoretically does things
  505. # [21:42] <RLa> btw, i'm in #html5 :)
  506. # [21:43] <RLa> so ie6 is out of question
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  508. # [21:43] <RLa> i will try to write my table-populating now without jquery and with using dom
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  510. # [21:45] <Ms2ger> For tables, there are a few useful shortcuts, btw
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  512. # [21:45] <Ms2ger> Like table.insertRow().insertCell(à
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  516. # [21:50] <RLa> isn't insertRow without argument an error?
  517. # [21:50] <Ms2ger> Not in HTML5 :)
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  519. # [21:51] <RLa> hm, which javascript reference i should use with html5?
  520. # [21:51] <Ms2ger> whatwg.org/html :)
  521. # [21:53] <RLa> thanks!
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  525. # [21:59] <RLa> why in the name XMLHttpRequest XML is all caps but Http is not?
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  528. # [22:06] <moo-_-> RLa: because someone has obviously failed at microsoft?
  529. # [22:06] <moo-_-> :)
  530. # [22:07] <RLa> didn't they have ActiveXThing or whatever?
  531. # [22:07] <RLa> but yeah, why there has to be so many inconsistence
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  534. # [22:12] <kevindanko> why does the img tag need to end with am /
  535. # [22:12] <kevindanko> ?
  536. # [22:12] <kevindanko> an*
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  539. # [22:14] <tbranyen> kevindanko: it doesn't
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  542. # [22:14] <kevindanko> Im reading books on HTML5 and one of them mentions to always end img src="link.gif" title="title"/>
  543. # [22:14] <kevindanko> and i was wondering why
  544. # [22:15] <RLa> to use it as xml
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  546. # [22:16] <RLa> i think xml does not allow unclosed single tags
  547. # [22:16] <kevindanko> So it doesn't matter if i have it in html5?
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  556. # [22:21] <Ms2ger> kevindanko, doesn't matter at all, just a matter of preference
  557. # [22:22] <Ms2ger> I think it hurts more than it helps, but clearly not everyone agrees with me
  558. # [22:22] <Ms2ger> (Would be boring if they did :))
  559. # [22:23] <kevindanko> i see it in other tags to
  560. # [22:23] <kevindanko> like br/
  561. # [22:23] <kevindanko> <br/>
  562. # [22:24] <Ms2ger> Yeah
  563. # [22:24] <kevindanko> okay cool
  564. # [22:25] <RLa> for json to be acceptable, it must be sent using application/json content-type?
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  566. # [22:25] <Ms2ger> Define acceptable :)
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  568. # [22:26] <Ms2ger> You can still load it with XHR, regardless of content-type
  569. # [22:27] <RLa> i see firefox complaining in error console
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  571. # [22:28] <Ms2ger> I'd say it's best practice to set the content-type correctly, but it usually doesn't matter much
  572. # [22:29] <cgcardona> Chris_Duarte: werd
  573. # [22:31] <RLa> http://pastebin.com/ZByTjXXi
  574. # [22:31] <RLa> any ideas for improvements?
  575. # [22:32] <RLa> btw, i notice that < in javascript messes up syntax hilighter
  576. # [22:32] <Ms2ger> I'd use JSON.parse
  577. # [22:32] <RLa> will that confuse browsers too?
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  580. # [22:33] <Ms2ger> Not that much, apparently: http://kangax.github.com/es5-compat-table/
  581. # [22:33] <Ms2ger> Just old Opera and Konqueror
  582. # [22:34] <RLa> thanks
  583. # [22:34] <RLa> that gets rid of ugly eval
  584. # [22:35] <Ms2ger> And you're missing a 'var' for the i, I think
  585. # [22:36] * psynaptic|away is now known as psynaptic
  586. # [22:37] <RLa> hm, indeed
  587. # [22:39] <RLa> in xhtml javascript is recommended to be wrapped into CDATA section, same for html 5?
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  589. # [22:42] <Ms2ger> No
  590. # [22:42] <Ms2ger> (Unless you send it as application/xhtml+xml)
  591. # [22:45] <snover> (which you shouldn’t)
  592. # [22:46] <Ms2ger> Using application/xhtml+xml is perfectly fine, but it would probably cause you more pain than you like
  593. # [22:49] <snover> perfectly fine if you like not supporting ie7 or ie8
  594. # [22:49] <materialdesigner> or having draconian error handling
  595. # [22:49] <Ms2ger> snover, I'd say that's a positive effect, myself :)
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  609. # [23:15] <snover> materialdesigner: I considered mentioning the well-defined error recovery in html5 but …didn’t :)
  610. # [23:15] * Quits: Chris_Duarte (~Chris_Dua@c-24-130-117-111.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: Chris_Duarte)
  611. # [23:15] <materialdesigner> yeah
  612. # [23:15] <materialdesigner> IMO, one of the biggest downfalls of xml mime types
  613. # [23:16] <materialdesigner> frankly, people are dumb, and if you are supporting third party code, some of it *will* be malformed
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  632. # [23:52] * psynaptic is now known as psynaptic|away
  633. # Session Close: Mon Aug 08 00:00:01 2011

The end :)