/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-08-09 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Aug 09 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
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  10. # [00:11] <ryanneufeld> is there a way in chrome to have an overflow-y of scroll, but only see the scroll bar when there is content to scroll?
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  13. # [00:11] <ryanneufeld> nvm
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  27. # [00:38] <danbeam> ryanneufeld: nvm = overflow-y: auto; ?
  28. # [00:38] <ryanneufeld> yes
  29. # [00:38] <danbeam> ryanneufeld: ok
  30. # [00:38] <danbeam> ryanneufeld: just wondering if you had found some magical thing I had never heard of
  31. # [00:38] <ryanneufeld> unlikely
  32. # [00:38] <ryanneufeld> :p
  33. # [00:38] <ryanneufeld> building a chrome extension
  34. # [00:38] <danbeam> ryanneufeld: good man
  35. # [00:39] <ryanneufeld> fun stuff
  36. # [00:39] <danbeam> ryanneufeld: they're pretty easy to build and pretty cool, right?!
  37. # [00:39] <ryanneufeld> it's pretty crazy what you can do with it
  38. # [00:39] <danbeam> ryanneufeld: ya
  39. # [00:39] <ryanneufeld> and how isolated they keep your code
  40. # [00:39] <danbeam> ryanneufeld: FF is much more loose about what extensions can do
  41. # [00:39] <ryanneufeld> That's next
  42. # [00:39] <danbeam> ryanneufeld: have fun with that
  43. # [00:39] <ryanneufeld> I have to implement the same extension for FF
  44. # [00:39] <ryanneufeld> yeah, I wear 7 hats
  45. # [00:39] <ryanneufeld> :P
  46. # [00:39] <danbeam> ryanneufeld: FF has been messing with their extension developer for a while now
  47. # [00:40] <danbeam> ryanneufeld: developers*
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  49. # [00:40] <ryanneufeld> I just need to show some content loaded from a third party
  50. # [00:40] <danbeam> ryanneufeld: so have fun recompiling every time something comes out and supporting like 10 versions of FF
  51. # [00:40] <ryanneufeld> *shrug* keeps me employed
  52. # [00:40] <danbeam> ryanneufeld: maybe that won't be so bad then, they really only screw the C++ extension devs
  53. # [00:41] <ryanneufeld> I'm not writing anything like that
  54. # [00:41] <ryanneufeld> i'll prolly stick w/ xul/js
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  62. # [00:52] <paul_irish> chrome's new antialiasing is hottttttt
  63. # [00:52] <paul_irish> http://trac.webkit.org/export/92646/trunk/LayoutTests/platform/chromium/compositing/huge-layer-rotated.html
  64. # [00:52] <paul_irish> devchan or canary
  65. # [00:53] <danbeam> paul_irish: or trunk/ :P
  66. # [00:58] <danbeam> btw, here's a little bit more explanation of the technical side of GPU compositing (just found this) - http://www.chromium.org/developers/design-documents/gpu-accelerated-compositing-in-chrome, I had to turn it on in about:flags (but you could additionally say --enable-accelerated-compositing from the CLI) and I also turned on the flag that shows a border around every accelerated node
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  70. # [01:02] <paul_irish> just filed a pretty nerdy ticket against JSC https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=65885
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  72. # [01:03] <danbeam> paul_irish: that is pretty nerdy, lol
  73. # [01:04] <paul_irish> yeah someone emailed me asking for why Chrome and jQuery were blowing up on a testcase
  74. # [01:04] <paul_irish> but safari was fine with it
  75. # [01:04] <paul_irish> reduced it down to that and found they act differently.. so might as well try to get consistency
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  77. # [01:05] <danbeam> paul_irish: yeah
  78. # [01:05] <danbeam> paul_irish: what did FF do? just return false?
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  81. # [01:08] <paul_irish> danbeam: typeerror
  82. # [01:08] <paul_irish> wassup spec conformance.
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  90. # [01:22] <gf3> paul_irish: NERD!
  91. # [01:22] <paul_irish> totes
  92. # [01:22] * gf3 kicks sand in paul_irish's eyes and eats his sandwich
  93. # [01:22] <paul_irish> eww gross sandwich
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  100. # [01:36] <tw2113> totes paul_irish ? http://www.wh1.com/images/products/totes-large.jpg
  101. # [01:37] <paul_irish> weird. i swear i saw that pic earlier today
  102. # [01:37] <paul_irish> ?ud totes @ tw2113
  103. # [01:37] <paul_irish> no botty! nvm
  104. # [01:37] <tw2113> i got 4 totes earlier for packing purposes
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  125. # [02:36] <gavacho> totes brah
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  163. # [04:13] <Asido> i need a fast way to do intro similar to this: http://www.patricksutton.com/
  164. # [04:13] <Asido> anyone knows an example/source of something similar?
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  196. # [05:00] <grantg> nimbu: I think webkit "accidentally" all over the place: http://i.imgur.com/116uN.png
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  198. # [05:00] <nimbu> haha
  199. # [05:01] <grantg> what is this? I don't even...
  200. # [05:01] <materialdesigner> I'm 12 and what is this?
  201. # [05:01] <grantg> lol
  202. # [05:02] <grantg> materialdesigner: A 12 year old SHOULD KNOW.
  203. # [05:02] <materialdesigner> 12 year olds have no idea what a gameboy color is. They started with PSPs
  204. # [05:02] <materialdesigner> douchebags
  205. # [05:02] <grantg> oh shit
  206. # [05:03] <grantg> D:
  207. # [05:03] <grantg> correction: A 12 year old from 1999
  208. # [05:03] <materialdesigner> as in they were 12 in 1999?
  209. # [05:03] <grantg> heh
  210. # [05:03] <materialdesigner> lol
  211. # [05:03] <grantg> 24 year olds. lol
  212. # [05:04] <materialdesigner> :D
  213. # [05:04] <materialdesigner> I still remember my old gameboy not color
  214. # [05:04] <grantg> I had a pocket and color and adv. and adv. sp
  215. # [05:05] <grantg> adv. got the gb color colors wrong. <_<
  216. # [05:05] <grantg> their hardware palette ucode was wrong. D:
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  218. # [05:06] <grantg> oh wow, on chrome, if the canvas is not shown, then CPU load drops from 75% to 18%
  219. # [05:06] <grantg> shit like this chrome/webkit. :|
  220. # [05:07] <grantg> It takes way more CPU in chrome to putImageData at 59.7 Hz than to run a CPU interpreter loop + stereo audio at 70 khz.
  221. # [05:07] <grantg> shit like this.
  222. # [05:08] <grantg> [insert look of disappoint and wtf]
  223. # [05:08] <grantg> chrome goes from nom'ing more CPU than firefox to 1/3 of it.
  224. # [05:10] <grantg> materialdesigner: Well I'm on break between college semesters, so I'm working on this stuff a lot more.
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  226. # [05:11] <materialdesigner> working on what?
  227. # [05:12] <materialdesigner> using canvas?
  228. # [05:12] <grantg> js gameboy advance
  229. # [05:12] <materialdesigner> which semesters are you b/w?
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  231. # [05:12] <grantg> summer & fall
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  233. # [05:12] <grantg> doesn't start until later august for fall
  234. # [05:13] <materialdesigner> lol i meant years, but w/e
  235. # [05:13] <grantg> I thought I was gonna be done with JS GBA aready.
  236. # [05:13] <grantg> soph.
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  241. # [05:15] <materialdesigner> I'm playing pokemon red
  242. # [05:15] <materialdesigner> on the JS GBA
  243. # [05:15] <materialdesigner> :)
  244. # [05:15] <grantg> that's JS GBC
  245. # [05:15] <grantg> :P
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  247. # [05:16] <materialdesigner> ugh
  248. # [05:16] <materialdesigner> same shit
  249. # [05:16] <materialdesigner> :P
  250. # [05:17] <grantg> GBA = gameboy advance, GBC = gameboy color, GBA has a better CPU, more colors, and better 2d gfx capabilities
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  254. # [05:37] <tw2113> paul_irish, you'd know. i am working on a site that uses a touch of canvas, and it's throwing errors for the IE bros, would wrapping it in a canvas test possibly eliminate those errors?
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  263. # [05:41] <tw2113> or anyone else can answer too, just letting everyone know :D
  264. # [05:41] <louxiu> What's avc1.4D401E and mp4a.40.2? Is it another name of H.264 and acc?
  265. # [05:42] <grantg> do you need the canvas?
  266. # [05:42] * materialdesign-1 is now known as materialdesigner
  267. # [05:42] <tw2113> it's being used for some requested spiffy hover effects
  268. # [05:45] <tw2113> :D return !!document.createElement('canvas').getContext; ftw
  269. # [05:45] <tw2113> and isn't returning errors in the IE hos
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  271. # [05:48] <louxiu> Okie i know.
  272. # [05:48] * Parts: louxiu (~user@61.135.152.195) ("ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)")
  273. # [05:48] <tw2113> somehow, i get the feeling i'm going to miss louxiu
  274. # [05:48] <tw2113> how are you tonight grantg
  275. # [05:48] <grantg> good
  276. # [05:49] <tw2113> excellent to hear
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  288. # [06:18] <grantg> materialdesigner: Old enough to miss Dave? http://i.imgur.com/j1cbl.jpg
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  297. # [06:41] <tw2113> lols // Got IE and want scaling effect? Kiss my ass.
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  310. # [07:20] <rock_as_much_as_> .
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  313. # [07:23] <tw2113> i see your . dr0id
  314. # [07:23] <tw2113> and raise you a ~
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  317. # [07:30] <paul_irish> tw2113: use the test in modernizr
  318. # [07:31] <paul_irish> the one you pasted isnt good enough
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  320. # [07:31] <paul_irish> aka use a modernizr custom build
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  325. # [07:32] <tw2113> i was hoping to avoid that due to the theme being pre-done and already loaded with js files
  326. # [07:32] <tw2113> unless i can yank the modernizr test version for just canvas
  327. # [07:32] <paul_irish> thats how it works.
  328. # [07:33] <paul_irish> ithinkkk
  329. # [07:33] <paul_irish> you saying you cant add more script tags
  330. # [07:33] <tw2113> i'll go check an un-min'd version of modernizr
  331. # [07:33] <paul_irish> yes do that
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  335. # [07:36] * tw2113 uses the unminimizing part of element inspector
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  339. # [07:41] <tw2113> paul_irish would i just need the m.canvas = function () { var a = b.createElement("canvas"); return !!a.getContext && !!a.getContext("2d") }; part?
  340. # [07:43] <tw2113> i'm thinking not, i see m being declared earlier on
  341. # [07:43] * dr0id is now known as pfft
  342. # [07:43] <tw2113> i may just include the whole thing
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  374. # [08:36] <techrush__> anyone else find this funny ? http://dl.dropbox.com/u/208815/mailchimp-lol.png
  375. # [08:36] <techrush__> i had to screenshot that when i ran into it
  376. # [08:36] <techrush__> probably the most confusing scroll situation ive ever used in a web app lol
  377. # [08:38] <pfft> hilariously funny
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  393. # [09:15] <louxiu> Hi all. The flv video download from youtube have H.264 video and AAC audio tracks, which I believe is standard for the .f4v container. How can i identify a *.flv file is in flv or f4v format.
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  418. # [10:25] <jetienne> louxiu: try with the unix command line 'file myfile.flv' or 'mplayer --identify myfile.flv'
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  427. # [10:33] <louxiu> jetienne: Thanks. I will try it.
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  432. # [10:50] <louxiu> jetienne: file command doesn't work. It seems that Mplayer use ffmpeg with -identify. Some sample files have meta-info "major_brand: f4v", some not. This can be known from the output of "ffmpeg -i"
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  500. # [13:48] <Asido> can anyone tell me how can i achieve a transparent canvas drawImage switch?
  501. # [13:49] <Asido> i have 2 images which first is drawn calling drawImage, and after several seconds the second picture should toggle transparently hidding the first one
  502. # [13:49] <Asido> the example is like here: http://www.patricksutton.com/
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  504. # [13:50] <MacDada> hi, how do I implement "letter-spacing" css style in canvas?
  505. # [13:50] <Asido> when the second image with wine shop fades in
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  528. # [14:30] <MacDada> hi, how do I implement "letter-spacing" css style in canvas?
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  548. # [14:51] <Jayflux> on dev tools is it possible to browse the vairables in the scripts panel without having an exception thrown?
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  574. # [15:29] <BrianBlakely> Jayflux: You mean analyze the current scope? If I understand correctly, you can set a breakpoint in your code at the point you want to analyze by clicking the line number in the Scripts panel.
  575. # [15:29] <Jayflux> something like that yeah BrianBlakely, once an exception happens you can hover over variables and functions in the scripts panel and it tells you their value
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  577. # [15:29] <Jayflux> but this only works once an exception happens
  578. # [15:30] <BrianBlakely> Jayflux: http://code.google.com/chrome/devtools/docs/scripts-breakpoints.html
  579. # [15:30] <Jayflux> yeah looking at that
  580. # [15:30] <BrianBlakely> koo
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  583. # [15:33] <Jayflux> BrianBlakely: the picture on your link where he hovers over event
  584. # [15:33] <Jayflux> that only works when a breakpoint has been hit or an exception has happened right?
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  586. # [15:35] <BrianBlakely> Jayflux: Also, if you place "debugger;" (sans quotes) in your code, dev tools (Firebug, also) will stop there.
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  589. # [15:36] <BrianBlakely> I'd suggest just using a breakpoint via the GUI, though, as it's faster to turn on and off
  590. # [15:42] <Jayflux> tar
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  601. # [15:59] <Asido> is it possible to add onclick event listener to a text written with fillText on canvas?
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  606. # [16:01] <MacDada> nope
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  612. # [16:10] <Aric> does anyone know if you can include (in js) a .js file outside of your docroot?
  613. # [16:10] * psynaptic|away is now known as psynaptic
  614. # [16:11] <Aric> im using zend framework (php) and have this in my scripts.js and it's not executing at all and returning no errors -> include('../../application/widgets/'+id+'/'+id+'.js');
  615. # [16:11] <Aric> but im going behind the /public folder, which is what i have apache docroot set to for this domain so maybe that's the problem
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  619. # [16:27] <BrianBlakely> Aric: By "docroot" do you mean <html>?
  620. # [16:28] <BrianBlakely> If so, then no, you shouldn't
  621. # [16:28] <BrianBlakely> I don't know if browsers will still try to load it, but that definitely isn't kosher
  622. # [16:28] <BrianBlakely> Oh
  623. # [16:28] <BrianBlakely> Maybe you mean the root directory
  624. # [16:29] <BrianBlakely> If that's the case, then you can load JS from any URL, and relative URLs are also OK
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  626. # [16:29] <BrianBlakely> As for apache configuration, I haven't done that in a while so...
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  628. # [16:30] <Emperorlou> I would guess that apache wouldn't let you access files that are outside of the server context
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  631. # [16:34] <Aric> i made a controller to output the file via php
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  633. # [16:34] <Aric> trying to make self contained widgets but they're not in /public
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  636. # [16:34] <Aric> got it working but now flot is throwing exceptions :)
  637. # [16:34] <Aric> ty tho
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  659. # [17:04] <BrianBlakely> Holy shit, I just saw this: http://weblog.bocoup.com/javascript-firefox-nightly-introduces-dom-joystick-events
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  661. # [17:08] <dr0id> amazing
  662. # [17:09] <moo-_-> oh joy
  663. # [17:09] <BrianBlakely> moo-_-: Pun intended? ;3
  664. # [17:10] <BrianBlakely> My feedback: http://weblog.bocoup.com/javascript-firefox-nightly-introduces-dom-joystick-events/comment-page-1#comment-2997
  665. # [17:10] <Emperorlou> heh nuts, joysticks
  666. # [17:10] <BrianBlakely> Basically, we need trigger (analog button) and multi-analog (dual stick) support
  667. # [17:10] <moo-_-> my finnish seriousity couldn't do that :V
  668. # [17:10] <BrianBlakely> Which isn't currently covered in the API spec, to my knowledge
  669. # [17:11] <danheberden> way to tell 'em
  670. # [17:11] <moo-_-> this should be good news for the gameboy emulator guy
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  673. # [17:14] <Emperorlou> BrianBlakely: How is it not supported?
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  677. # [17:15] <Emperorlou> you have a joymove event firing, giving you the stick ID as well as the axis it moved on
  678. # [17:15] <Emperorlou> the value it moved is provided as well, which makes it analog
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  681. # [17:19] <Ms2ger> <ted> tell him that we support all the analog sticks and triggers on the device
  682. # [17:19] <Ms2ger> <ted> they just show up as extra axes
  683. # [17:19] <Ms2ger> BrianBlakely, ^
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  697. # [17:44] <RLa> what would be good book about css considering html5?
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  700. # [17:48] <RLa> what about this one: http://www.sitepoint.com/books/htmlcss1/
  701. # [17:48] <RLa> anyone read it and can comment?
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  709. # [17:53] <BrianBlakely> Emperorlou, Ms2ger: Completely awesome, thank you for clearing that up. Super, super SUPER excited :D
  710. # [17:55] <BrianBlakely> Next we need an implementation for the camera/mic API, to enable Kinect/PSMove support :)
  711. # [17:56] <RLa> hm, anyone using sass here for making css management easier?
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  713. # [17:56] <BrianBlakely> RLa: I don't use it, but I know many people who do use SASS and/or LESS. They seem to like it a lot.
  714. # [17:57] <RLa> thanks, did not know about less
  715. # [17:58] <RLa> i really like variables in css for setting colors and margins etc in multiple places
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  717. # [17:58] <NoNoNo> RLa: I use it; it is useful and works well
  718. # [17:58] <BrianBlakely> Web Platform-based games will explode in 2012 if these APIs become more widespread. Firefox needs a store, f'realz.
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  720. # [17:59] <NoNoNo> RLa: Just be careful - SASS makes it easy to build insane complex CSS
  721. # [17:59] <materialdesigner> i use less
  722. # [18:00] <RLa> i see less also works on-the-fly, on client side
  723. # [18:00] <materialdesigner> dont
  724. # [18:00] <materialdesigner> useful for rapid prototyping using watch(), but it requires javascript
  725. # [18:00] <materialdesigner> always compile before sending to production
  726. # [18:00] <RLa> will do
  727. # [18:01] <materialdesigner> I like less better than sass because I see it as a superset of CSS, and not a rewrite using alternate syntax
  728. # [18:01] <materialdesigner> (also SCSS is better than SASS)
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  730. # [18:01] <NoNoNo> RLa: You could implement an automated delivery process including compiling, e.g. with http://code.google.com/p/minify/
  731. # [18:02] <materialdesigner> I think the @mixin @include @extend syntax is ridiculously overwrought
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  733. # [18:03] <RLa> NoNoNo, if proper caching headers are sent then minifying should not be necessary
  734. # [18:04] <materialdesigner> minification should still happen. no need to increase the bandwidth load
  735. # [18:04] <RLa> i remember tuning a rails app that did not sent useful headers and all javascript, css and images were requested at each view
  736. # [18:06] <RLa> i also turned on compression at apache for javascript and css
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  739. # [18:08] <RLa> i wonder how much bandwidth reduction is there with compression with minify vs non-minify
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  741. # [18:11] <BrianBlakely> RLa: Depends, but I usually see a 10-20% reduction in filesize
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  743. # [18:11] <RLa> minify also removes comments? that might make up the difference?
  744. # [18:11] <materialdesigner> ^
  745. # [18:12] <materialdesigner> and whitespace
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  777. # [18:44] <danbeam> RLa, materialdesigner In theory a good minifier would remove much more than just comments and whitespace (though that is a bit of stuff already).
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  779. # [18:45] <RLa> whole dead code from large js libraries could be removed
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  781. # [18:46] <materialdesigner> of course. variable names could be simplified to single letters. unused code would be stripped out. in the case of css, multiple selectors would be combined into the same style declarations, etc.
  782. # [18:46] * ericduran|food is now known as ericduran
  783. # [18:47] <danbeam> RLA, materialdesigner: I was talking about CSS, though, which isn't as easy to rename locals in, haha
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  815. # [19:30] <squeakytoy> Hey all. I am interested in streaming video with html 5 (if that is possible) but i cannot find any decent resource about this.
  816. # [19:30] <squeakytoy> Is it possible to stream video with html 5?
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  824. # [19:36] <cgcardona_> squeakytoy: http://diveintohtml5.org/video.html
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  827. # [19:37] <squeakytoy> cgcardona: so, the video tag supports streams?
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  829. # [19:46] <Ms2ger> It should
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  831. # [19:47] <squeakytoy> i cant' really find any decent documentation for that
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  841. # [19:59] <BrianBlakely> squeakytoy: Are you talking about live streaming? Because I'm pretty sure <video> will start playing as it downloads.
  842. # [19:59] <BrianBlakely> That's default behavior AFAIK
  843. # [19:59] <squeakytoy> playing as it downloads.. that means, its basically streaming?
  844. # [20:00] <squeakytoy> but the sender.. never stops sending?
  845. # [20:00] <BrianBlakely> Well, the data is sent in packets by your server until all the packets have made it to the viewer.
  846. # [20:01] <BrianBlakely> Browsers will continue to download, but not block playing of the portion which has been downloaded already
  847. # [20:02] <BrianBlakely> As for live, continuous streaming without a definitive endpoint, I have no idea how that would work right now. WebRTC is the soon-to-arrive feature which could make that possible: https://sites.google.com/site/webrtc/
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  868. # [20:38] <minijupe> am I allowed to have more than one form spanning multiple rows in a table?
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  875. # [20:44] <paul_irish> minijupe: dunno. ask the validator
  876. # [20:44] <paul_irish> wait
  877. # [20:44] <paul_irish> you want a form around TR's?? i dont think that's gonna work
  878. # [20:44] <paul_irish> cant put the form around the entire table?
  879. # [20:45] <minijupe> paul_irish: there's two forms, one for sorting/searching, one for selecting elements in the table to do things with : (
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  881. # [20:47] <Ms2ger> minijupe, so have two forms and use the 'form' attribute
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  908. # [21:38] <BrianBlakely> Ms2ger: 'form' attribute?
  909. # [21:39] <Ms2ger> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/association-of-controls-and-forms.html#attr-fae-form
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  914. # [21:41] <BrianBlakely> ...whoa
  915. # [21:41] <BrianBlakely> Ms2ger: Do you know what the UA support is like?
  916. # [21:42] <BrianBlakely> MDN hits it with an "HTML5" badge
  917. # [21:42] <Ms2ger> Supported in Firefox, probably Opera, worth trying in WebKit
  918. # [21:42] <Ms2ger> I think
  919. # [21:42] <BrianBlakely> OK, so it's not a cow trail paving etc
  920. # [21:43] <Ms2ger> No
  921. # [21:43] <BrianBlakely> Thank you for that info ^_^
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  923. # [21:44] <Ms2ger> Np
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  935. # [22:15] <BrianBlakely> Welly well, this is certainly made of win: http://codereview.chromium.org/7493082/patch/15006/10019
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  937. # [22:15] <BrianBlakely> One of the default avatars in Chrome's upcoming Profiles feature
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The end :)