/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-08-14 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sun Aug 14 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
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  21. # [00:48] <squeakytoy> ogg, MPEG 4 or webm - which should you focus on if you had to pick one?
  22. # [00:48] <squeakytoy> for video and html
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  26. # [00:53] <paul_irish> encode in both h264 and webm
  27. # [00:53] <paul_irish> and that's it.
  28. # [00:54] <squeakytoy> ignore ogg?
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  31. # [00:55] <RLa> all that support ogg also support webm, and more platforms support webm
  32. # [00:56] <squeakytoy> safari doesn't support h264 or webm tho?
  33. # [00:56] <RLa> according to a book i have here
  34. # [00:56] <tw2113> apple has too much invested in h.264 not to
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  36. # [00:56] <squeakytoy> or wait, i read wrong
  37. # [00:57] <RLa> both safari and ios safari support h264
  38. # [00:57] <RLa> since version 4
  39. # [00:58] <RLa> and ogg is container btw, theora is the codec
  40. # [00:59] <squeakytoy> oh, didnt know that
  41. # [01:00] <RLa> and then there are audio codecs as well, but only two choices, aac or vorbis
  42. # [01:03] <RLa> the book lists 3 combinations: ogg/theora/vorbis, mp4/h264/aac and webm/vp8/vorbis
  43. # [01:03] <RLa> at least you do not have to consider all combinations of container/video codec/audio codec
  44. # [01:04] <RLa> that would be insane
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  73. # [02:23] <paul_irish> shepazu: what do CustomEvents do that you can't mimic with regular old initEvent() ?
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  160. # [07:10] <thirteenth> Hi
  161. # [07:11] <thirteenth> Is there ANY browser that will play webm and h264 html5?
  162. # [07:11] <thirteenth> out of the box
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  166. # [07:20] <paul_irish> no
  167. # [07:20] <paul_irish> not both.
  168. # [07:20] <thirteenth> :(
  169. # [07:20] <thirteenth> ok
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  176. # [07:46] <thirteenth> thanks for help paul_irish
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  265. # [13:49] <hsteak> hello
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  269. # [13:51] <hsteak> i have a backgroundless div over an input button, is there any way to make the button work without using javascript (the button seem to be unreachable)?
  270. # [13:51] <hsteak> if not, how should i do it?
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  272. # [13:53] <nlogax> there's the pointer-events css thing
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  274. # [13:53] <nlogax> https://developer.mozilla.org/en/CSS/pointer-events
  275. # [13:53] <hsteak> thanks, gonna rtfm that
  276. # [13:53] <nlogax> not much browser support. but a little bit :)
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  278. # [13:58] <hsteak> nlogax: exactly what i needed, thank you
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  362. # [17:57] <monteslu> does FileReader.readDataAsURL(file); actually work?
  363. # [17:57] <monteslu> I'm on chrome15 and getting an undefined returned on something that is definitely a file object
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  367. # [18:02] <monteslu> ok, its async. I gotta use the onload() function to do work
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  374. # [18:18] <monteslu> got it to sorta work
  375. # [18:19] <monteslu> seems like dragging and dropping images works randomly about 50% of the time
  376. # [18:21] <monteslu> i get the dataURL, but height and width on JS Image objects sometimes are zero. Maybe i need to attach to a load event on the images
  377. # [18:24] <monteslu> yep, that was it
  378. # [18:24] <monteslu> Even though the image src is a data url, the image is still loaded asynchronously and you need to attach to its onload event
  379. # [18:25] <monteslu> this is like coding in node :)
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  381. # [18:30] <vivep> would be very glad if someone can help me out. Can i restrict html text field input to accept only valid time??
  382. # [18:32] <Ms2ger> <input type=time>?
  383. # [18:32] <tbranyen> monteslu: you mean coding in javascript :)
  384. # [18:34] <vivep> Ms2ger : There's nothing called type = time right?
  385. # [18:35] <jetienne> http://www.w3.org/TR/html-markup/input.time.html
  386. # [18:35] <jetienne> http://diveintohtml5.org/forms.html for a more comprehensive one
  387. # [18:35] <jetienne> vivep: see above
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  391. # [18:38] <vivep> jetienne : thanks
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  397. # [18:49] <vivep> jetienne: that Url helped a lot
  398. # [18:49] <vivep> Thank you.
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  402. # [18:52] <jetienne> cool :)
  403. # [18:53] <vivep> But see <input type = "time"> also accepts other characters
  404. # [18:54] <vivep> I mean can't i restrict the user entry itself . He can't enter any characters except the valid time . Ofcourse he get to choose from the range. Just assuming the case he wants to enter manually . He can go wrong .
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  406. # [18:57] <vivep> jetienne : Can i restrict the user entry to only numbers using <input type="time">??
  407. # [18:57] <jetienne> vivep: i dunno :)
  408. # [18:58] <jetienne> other may knows tho
  409. # [18:58] <monteslu> tbranyen, well. coding asycnrhonously. That used to only be ajax :)
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  411. # [18:58] * nimbupani is now known as nimbu
  412. # [18:59] <monteslu> but I do like it, just tough to unlearn 15 years of doing things more top down
  413. # [19:00] <vivep> jetienne : np . Thanks . Do u have any idea about autocomplete feature . In the sense i will have a text field . I want to give the suggestion of all the places in certain area of a state
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  415. # [19:01] <Ms2ger> That's what datalist is for
  416. # [19:01] <tbranyen> monteslu: events are asynchronous as well
  417. # [19:01] <tbranyen> timers are asynchronous as well
  418. # [19:01] <tbranyen> but i know what you mean
  419. # [19:02] <tbranyen> it was semi less prevalent in client side coding
  420. # [19:04] <vivep> Say i have a textfield in a html page. While the user is trying to enter input in it. I want to give a suggestion list . For eg if the user enters P i want to show Paris, Pakistan , like that . Can i do it using html or javascript?? How??
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  453. # [19:41] <Jonz> anybody know why the commented version of boilerplate-v2.0 has these weird pipes in (only) some of the header comments, e.g.
  454. # [19:41] <Jonz> /* ==|== primary styles =====================================================
  455. # [19:42] <tw2113> visual dividers?
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  457. # [19:43] <Jonz> tw2113 I get that the reason for the header comments and the lines of equals signs
  458. # [19:43] <Jonz> what I don't get is the single pipe character.. |
  459. # [19:44] <tw2113> given the /* part at the front, my bet is that it's still all presentational
  460. # [19:44] <tw2113> decoration
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  462. # [19:45] <nimbu> Jonz: its for splitting for build script
  463. # [19:45] <tw2113> and here comes nimbu with a technical answer that squashes my theory
  464. # [19:45] <Jonz> ah, intersting, thank Nimbu, figured there had to be a good reason fro it
  465. # [19:45] <nimbu> so it will split into several files when u run it and be @imported into style.css
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  467. # [19:46] * tw2113 is a shell of a man
  468. # [19:46] <nimbu> build script will also merge it together when you would like. Sadly we dont have docs but i think reading build.xml might give you an idea
  469. # [19:46] <Jonz> right on, thanks much :)
  470. # [19:48] <paul_irish> actually the build script docs have this now, nimbu
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  472. # [19:48] <paul_irish> darktable added it
  473. # [19:48] <paul_irish> its just wayyy far down in the file
  474. # [19:48] <paul_irish> lemme fix that
  475. # [19:48] <paul_irish> that page basically needs a TOC now
  476. # [19:48] <nimbu> o is that so
  477. # [19:48] <paul_irish> yes that is so.
  478. # [19:48] <nimbu> cool.
  479. # [19:48] <paul_irish> :)
  480. # [19:48] <nimbu> thnx noted for future
  481. # [19:52] <MikeSmith> speaking if splitting, mathias asks that I split es5.github.com into a multipage version
  482. # [19:52] <MikeSmith> which I will try to do this week
  483. # [19:52] <MikeSmith> supposed to be on vacation but oh well
  484. # [19:53] <MikeSmith> not so good at vacationing
  485. # [19:53] <paul_irish> hmmm
  486. # [19:53] <paul_irish> tbh it doesnt seem very neccesary
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  488. # [19:53] <paul_irish> everything is interlinked and the page loads quickly
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  490. # [19:53] <paul_irish> i will attempt to convince mathias its better as singlepage
  491. # [19:54] <MikeSmith> well, he said it loads slow in some browsers
  492. # [19:54] <MikeSmith> which is prolly due to my crap JS skills
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  494. # [19:55] <MikeSmith> but it is a couple MB or so
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  496. # [19:55] <Jonz> its kind of awesome how long it takes for dev tools to load up on that page
  497. # [19:55] <MikeSmith> anyway, when mathias speaks, I listen
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  499. # [19:55] <Jonz> i was hoping there'd be a hidden comment explaining was "Ex igne vita" means
  500. # [19:56] <MikeSmith> heh
  501. # [19:56] <MikeSmith> Jonz: it means what it means
  502. # [19:56] <Jonz> ha!
  503. # [19:56] <Ms2ger> MikeSmith, deep, man
  504. # [19:56] <paul_irish> :)
  505. # [19:56] <MikeSmith> heh
  506. # [19:57] <MikeSmith> my life is full of random decisions
  507. # [19:57] <Jonz> kind of appropriate for a language like js
  508. # [19:57] <MikeSmith> true that
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  511. # [19:58] <MikeSmith> JS is "worse is better" times ten thousand
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  513. # [19:58] <paul_irish> MikeSmith: btw your js looks totally fine from a perf standpoint. the only thing i'd recc is taking a more innerHTML approach for the annoateHeadings loop
  514. # [19:59] <MikeSmith> ok
  515. # [19:59] <MikeSmith> can do that
  516. # [20:00] <Jonz> for those who care ,"out of fiery life" is what it actually means
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  518. # [20:00] <paul_irish> and you could also delay the annotateHeadings() calls with a little setTimeout(fn, 100) yield
  519. # [20:00] <paul_irish> and let domcontentloaded fire first
  520. # [20:00] <MikeSmith> k
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  522. # [20:01] <MikeSmith> paul_irish: with the usual caveat that I am not a Real Programmer
  523. # [20:01] <paul_irish> :) poppycock!
  524. # [20:01] <MikeSmith> but instead more like Unfrozen Caveman Programmer
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  534. # [20:19] <paul_irish> incredible http://madebyevan.com/webgl-water/
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  538. # [20:21] <funkster> Is there a way I can handel requests that are offline - example im sitting at a form on abc.com that submits data , but the local client is offline
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  545. # [20:28] <paul_irish> you can bind to the submit effect and capture the form data
  546. # [20:28] <paul_irish> store it in localstorage
  547. # [20:29] <paul_irish> and then sync it back up with a form submit once you're back online
  548. # [20:29] <paul_irish> boomboomboom
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  550. # [20:30] <henrikkok> funkster: never browsers have a variable called "navigator.onLine" (boolean) that could help you out.
  551. # [20:30] <henrikkok> *newer
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  569. # [21:23] <MikeSmith> um
  570. # [21:23] <paul_irish> hm
  571. # [21:24] <MikeSmith> what is boaz going on about?
  572. # [21:24] <MikeSmith> drunk?
  573. # [21:24] <paul_irish> i think he got hacked
  574. # [21:24] <paul_irish> nobody uses tinyurl
  575. # [21:24] <MikeSmith> un
  576. # [21:24] <MikeSmith> yeah
  577. # [21:28] <tw2113> woo Fx6 is out a bit early
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  583. # [21:34] <paul_irish> tuesday is offishal release
  584. # [21:34] <paul_irish> https://wiki.mozilla.org/WeeklyUpdates/2011-08-08
  585. # [21:35] <Ms2ger> tw2113, as always
  586. # [21:35] <paul_irish> msft better ready some cupcakes
  587. # [21:35] <Ms2ger> We finish the builds a week early for QA
  588. # [21:36] <paul_irish> Ms2ger: i can't wait for all the webrtc stuff to land in both
  589. # [21:36] <Ms2ger> (Something I believe Chrome doesn't have, right paul_irish? :))
  590. # [21:36] <tw2113> i am thinking my Fx5 installs won't get the auto-update on the about page since I installed them through yum
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  592. # [21:36] <paul_irish> we should seriously have like mega hackathons
  593. # [21:36] <paul_irish> cuz rtc is huuuge
  594. # [21:37] <tw2113> rtc?
  595. # [21:37] <paul_irish> ?g webrtc
  596. # [21:37] <bot-t> paul_irish, WebRTC - http://www.webrtc.org/
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  598. # [21:37] <tw2113> ah
  599. # [21:37] <paul_irish> huger than webgl imho
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  601. # [21:37] <paul_irish> well that should be obvious, i guess.
  602. # [21:37] <tw2113> i say get Fx, Chrome, and O involved
  603. # [21:37] <paul_irish> done.
  604. # [21:38] <tw2113> and if Microsoft wants to play along, they can
  605. # [21:38] <Ms2ger> paul_irish, what do you think about mega hackathons to make Google sites not use totally different code paths for each browser? :)
  606. # [21:38] <tw2113> ha, i just saw this after i said that "The WebRTC initiative is a project supported by Google, Mozilla and Opera."
  607. # [21:38] <paul_irish> Ms2ger: wah wah wah!
  608. # [21:39] <paul_irish> tw2113: webrtc uses vp8 internally so it'll be interesting to see if msft and apple get on board
  609. # [21:39] <paul_irish> the futures are absolutely huge, and it'll be hilarious if a codec decision stops them from implementing
  610. # [21:39] <paul_irish> s/futures/features
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  613. # [21:40] <tw2113> +1 for browsers working together for the benefit of the users
  614. # [21:40] <Ms2ger> Yeah, if (webkit) { use webkit-prefixed-stuff } else if (opera) { use opera-prefixed-stuff } else if (gecko) { use mozilla-prefixed-stuff } else { we don't want you here } isn't fun
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  617. # [21:41] <paul_irish> Ms2ger: i have very little i can do about that
  618. # [21:41] <paul_irish> as you can imagine
  619. # [21:41] <Ms2ger> I can
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  622. # [21:41] <Ms2ger> But you're a Googler, so surely I can blame you? :)
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  624. # [21:42] <Ms2ger> I'll admit that Mozilla-internal sites aren't always innocent either
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  626. # [21:43] <tantek> paul_irish, how does Google culture respond to one Googler publicly (but politely and rationally) criticizing another Google project, and making public suggestions for improvement?
  627. # [21:44] <paul_irish> they like feedback!
  628. # [21:44] <tantek> Ms2ger - from my experience, Mozilla folks feel quite free to publicly criticize and suggest improvements to other Mozilla projects, and often those suggestions seem to be incorporated.
  629. # [21:44] * Joins: replore_ (~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp)
  630. # [21:44] <paul_irish> reporting through internal channels is probably more effective than a blog post.. you know.. bug tracker vs bitching on twitter kinda thing :)
  631. # [21:44] <paul_irish> but
  632. # [21:44] <tantek> right, direct channels and all that
  633. # [21:45] <Ms2ger> tantek, sounds like I should loudly criticize graphs.m.o, then :)
  634. # [21:45] <paul_irish> nobody has told me to shut up or anything :)
  635. # [21:45] <tantek> how long do you wait until you escalate to a public forum is the question
  636. # [21:45] <paul_irish> aye
  637. # [21:45] <tantek> paul_irish - that's good to hear
  638. # [21:45] <Ms2ger> Actually, I should check if v2 is better
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  643. # [21:46] <tantek> Ms2ger - just remember there is a human (or multiple) at the other end who will take the criticism personally, even if it is not meant as such, even if it is calmly/rationally written. OTOH I've gotten some of my best suggestions for improvement from public critiques, both from random people I don't know, and even people I *do know* who could have just emailed me.
  644. # [21:46] * Joins: digitalfiz (~digitalfi@unaffiliated/digitalfiz)
  645. # [21:47] <Ms2ger> Actually, the new code does look better on first sight
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  652. # [21:47] * tantek hopes paul_irish continues speaking his mind publicly more and more.
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  654. # [21:49] <paul_irish> tantek: bro is it true that things like <input type=range> support in FF are waiting on css3-ui stuff to get nailed down?
  655. # [21:49] <tantek> sort of? I mean the areas are related, but there are no direct blockers that I know of.
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  657. # [21:50] <Ms2ger> Seems like volkmar is working on memory and B2G stuff now
  658. # [21:50] <Ms2ger> paul_irish, patches welcome ;)
  659. # [21:50] <paul_irish> alright.. seemed like moz's pov on webforms was that implementations wouldnt land until the ability-to-style-all-parts of it had been determined
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  662. # [21:50] * ellm_ is now known as ellm
  663. # [21:50] <tantek> css3-ui is fairly nailed down at this point. the only outstanding work-items (from recent CSSWG meeting in Seattle) are updating the 'pointer-events' property definition, adding a description of hit-testing (so far unspecified in the open web platform, ahem), and updating the 'appearance' property value set with a few more modern values.
  664. # [21:50] <paul_irish> well.. i'm looking particularly at range input, but the datepickers (and color) after that
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  666. # [21:50] <paul_irish> gotcha
  667. # [21:51] <tantek> my CSS3-UI next-actions list: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Tantek-Mozilla-projects#CSS3_UI (has yet to incorporate actions from CSSWG a few weeks ago in Seattle)
  668. # [21:52] <tantek> current open issues http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css3-ui (same caveat)
  669. # [21:52] <tantek> and collection ground for CSS*4*-UI: http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css4-ui
  670. # [21:52] <paul_irish> yeah yeah level four.
  671. # [21:52] <Ms2ger> paul_irish, so I believe you were looking for spec work? :)
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  673. # [21:53] <paul_irish> hands full at the moment, my friend. :)
  674. # [21:53] <tantek> sounds familiar :)
  675. # [21:53] * Joins: Jonz (~Adium@pool-108-28-244-12.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
  676. # [21:53] <tantek> paul_irish - just wanted to make sure to provide the resources for folks to see details of where CSS3-UI / (and 4) are at - as well as contribute.
  677. # [21:54] * Joins: jetienne_ (~jerome@ivr94-6-82-230-255-246.fbx.proxad.net)
  678. # [21:54] <paul_irish> sgtm
  679. # [21:54] <tantek> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Tantek-Mozilla-projects#inbox
  680. # [21:54] <Ms2ger> tantek, to REC, I say!
  681. # [21:54] <tantek> :)
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  683. # [21:55] <paul_irish> tantek: i'm gonna be switching to your philosophy of communication pretty soon
  684. # [21:55] <Ms2ger> Oh, you're working on fullscreen?
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  688. # [21:58] <tantek> paul_irish - awesome! be sure to publicly document your preferred Communication Protocols :)
  689. # [21:58] <paul_irish> forreal.
  690. # [21:58] <tantek> Ms2Ger, yeah it's next on the spec priority list after CSS3-UI
  691. # [21:58] * tantek will gladly link to paul_irish's communication protocols.
  692. # [21:58] <Ms2ger> Great
  693. # [21:58] * Ms2ger swipes it off his todo list
  694. # [21:58] <tantek> hah! :)
  695. # [21:59] * Joins: ajpiaNOU (~ajpiano@cpe-74-66-1-39.nyc.res.rr.com)
  696. # [21:59] * tantek is patiently waiting official approval to publish with CC0+OWFa in addition to W3C licenses.
  697. # [21:59] * Joins: mdale (~mdale@unaffiliated/mdale)
  698. # [21:59] <Ms2ger> I'll point smaug your way next time he tries to push it on me :)
  699. # [22:00] <Ms2ger> tantek, let me know if you get approval, I'd love to do the same
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  703. # [22:00] <tantek> Ms2ger - awesome - I did ask both for specific permission, and for general permission for any Mozilla employee/effort.
  704. # [22:00] <tantek> We'll see what happens.
  705. # [22:02] <MikeSmith> what is OWFa?
  706. # [22:03] <Ms2ger> Patents
  707. # [22:03] <MikeSmith> nuffiel
  708. # [22:04] * Joins: simplicity- (~simplicit@unaffiliated/simplicity-)
  709. # [22:04] <MikeSmith> nuff said
  710. # [22:05] * MikeSmith has no idea what nuffiel i
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  716. # [22:13] <tantek> MikeSmith, OWFa is to patents IP as CC is to copyright. In short it's a shared license that anyone can use to create RF specs, standards, etc.
  717. # [22:13] * Joins: Jonz (~Adium@pool-108-28-244-12.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
  718. # [22:14] <tantek> see http://www.openwebfoundation.org/legal/the-owf-1-0-agreements/owfa-1-0 for more
  719. # [22:14] * tantek disclosure: on the board of the OWF.
  720. # [22:14] <MikeSmith> sounds like great idea
  721. # [22:14] <MikeSmith> in theory
  722. # [22:15] * psynaptic is now known as psynaptic|away
  723. # [22:15] <Ms2ger> MikeSmith, like patents
  724. # [22:15] <tantek> MikeSmith - not just in theory - many companies are using the OWFa *today* for publishing many specifications: http://wiki.openwebfoundation.org/Users_of_the_agreement
  725. # [22:16] <tantek> including folks like Google and Microsoft
  726. # [22:16] <MikeSmith> really
  727. # [22:16] <paul_irish> lol "PubHubSubBub"
  728. # [22:18] <MikeSmith> tantek: none of that stuff looks terifically familiar
  729. # [22:18] <tantek> oh really? never heard of Facebook Open Graph Protocol for example?
  730. # [22:18] <tantek> (it's only the #1 use of fake-RDFa in meta tags on the web ;) )
  731. # [22:19] <MikeSmith> hmm
  732. # [22:19] <MikeSmith> trying to think of something positive to say about that
  733. # [22:19] <tantek> or - PubsubHubbub - (AKA PuSH) - the standard way to do distributed real-time updates/notfications across the web, implemented by open source software, and publishers alike. E.g. status.net has full support.
  734. # [22:20] * tantek 's personal site publishes with Pubsubhubbub which is picked up in real-time by Pubsubhubbub consumers including Google Buzz and Status.net
  735. # [22:20] <MikeSmith> tantek: i guess i am wondering what relevance any of it has to browsers
  736. # [22:21] <tantek> Pubsubhubbub is as relevant at least to browsers as any feed format
  737. # [22:21] <MikeSmith> well
  738. # [22:21] <paul_irish> tantek: can you fix that typo plzzz :)
  739. # [22:21] <tantek> paul_irish, it's a wiki, you know the drill :)
  740. # [22:22] <tantek> wait where's the typo?
  741. # [22:22] <tantek> I see PubSubHubbub
  742. # [22:22] <tantek> (anyone can create an account on and edit http://wiki.openwebfoundation.org )
  743. # [22:23] <paul_irish> oh i was looking at a diff page.. http://www.openwebfoundation.org/faqs/users-of-owf-agreements
  744. # [22:23] <MikeSmith> tantek: i mean to any implementation changes in browsers
  745. # [22:23] <MikeSmith> but anyway
  746. # [22:23] <paul_irish> that one i can't edit at least.
  747. # [22:23] <tantek> any browser that implements anything with feeds would do well to also support PuSH to get *real-time* updates of those feeds
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  749. # [22:24] <tantek> paul_irish, I can't edit that one either ;(
  750. # [22:24] <paul_irish> ah okay
  751. # [22:25] * tantek is leaning more and more towards all shared text content being on wikis, and depending on revoking permissions rather than authorizing.
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  753. # [22:26] <tantek> MikeSmith, if I have my choice, any future specs I write for W3C will be dual licensed with CC0+OWFa as well.
  754. # [22:26] <paul_irish> +1
  755. # [22:28] <mike5w3c> tantek: I don't think that's much of a real solution
  756. # [22:29] * tantek is willing to give it a shot and see how it works.
  757. # [22:29] <mike5w3c> tantek: having somewhere other than W3C to do spec work would be a real solution, maybe
  758. # [22:29] <mike5w3c> but OWF is not that
  759. # [22:29] <mike5w3c> by a long shot
  760. # [22:29] <tantek> no, OWF is not a holder of specs, just like CC is not a holder of content.
  761. # [22:30] <mike5w3c> I guess
  762. # [22:30] <tantek> nor do they ever want to be.
  763. # [22:30] <mike5w3c> I don't even know who "they" is in that context
  764. # [22:30] <tantek> they = OWF or CC
  765. # [22:30] <tantek> per previous sentence
  766. # [22:30] <mike5w3c> um
  767. # [22:31] <mike5w3c> people
  768. # [22:31] <tantek> OWF is run by an elected board
  769. # [22:31] <mike5w3c> hm
  770. # [22:31] <tantek> CC is run by a board and an organization behind it.
  771. # [22:31] <mike5w3c> all sounds wonderful
  772. # [22:31] <tantek> I'm just restating already stated positions/FAQs.
  773. # [22:31] <tantek> no new information there.
  774. # [22:32] <tantek> and re: somewhere other than W3C to do spec work
  775. # [22:32] * tantek already has one place other than W3C to do spec work: http://microformats.org/wiki/ and #microformats - that's enough to keep busy for now.
  776. # [22:32] <mike5w3c> I guess I'll start paying attention more if I se s that they are effective at doing anything differently
  777. # [22:33] <tantek> I think CC and OWFa are doing their roles quite well
  778. # [22:33] <tantek> which is not the same as W3C
  779. # [22:33] <tantek> which is fine
  780. # [22:33] <tantek> CC and OWFa are creating modular pieces for spec development for others
  781. # [22:33] <mike5w3c> tantek: the microformats community is not a ringing endorsement for success, frankly
  782. # [22:34] <tantek> mike5w3c - well, we do our work in the open, in the public-domain, on a wiki that anyone can create an account for.
  783. # [22:34] <mike5w3c> sometimes that's not enough
  784. # [22:34] <tantek> if you don't think something is succeeding there, the license lets you take it and develop it elsewhere
  785. # [22:34] <tantek> can't say that about W3C
  786. # [22:35] <mike5w3c> I don't really care about the comparison to W3C
  787. # [22:35] * tantek is waiting for mike5w3c to provide examples of what he thinks is a "ringing endorsement for success"
  788. # [22:35] <mike5w3c> I don't know man
  789. # [22:36] <mike5w3c> but so far I don't see a lot of alternative bright spots
  790. # [22:36] <tantek> well when you do, let me know and I'll see what I can do to follow that example.
  791. # [22:36] <mike5w3c> despite lots of talk
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  793. # [22:37] <tantek> until then, I'll keep working on/in my various less than "ringing endorsement for success" efforts/communities, including W3C.
  794. # [22:37] <mike5w3c> well, just like that rest of us
  795. # [22:37] <mike5w3c> just without quite so much rhetoric
  796. # [22:37] <tantek> not rhetoric. I'm acting on it. publishing with more open licenses is action, not rhetoric.
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  798. # [22:39] <tantek> I've published my best practices for open standards development here: http://tantek.com/2011/168/b1/practices-good-open-web-standards-development - none of which are "so much rhetoric" as you say, all of which I'm doing my best to put into actual day-to-day practice of developing standards / writing spec etc.. Feel free to suggest improvements.
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The end :)