/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-08-16 / end

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# Session Start: Tue Aug 16 00:00:00 2011
# Session Ident: #html5
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# [00:05] <justinfront> Is there a browser map on html5 etc... features for different browsers so you can see what features can be used with which users, its very tricky to really understand the support and equivalence between browser specific calls... do you guys try to collate this information in a single place, also relative speed on different devices/platforms... for someone not expert in javascript it seems...
# [00:05] <justinfront> ...very messy, I want to understand how to develop something between standard haxe javascript and jeash canvas, but unsure where to look on css/3, javascript etc stuff that users may actually have.
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# [00:07] <CarterRabasa> Justinfront, yeah I know what you mean.
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# [00:08] <CarterRabasa> That's one of the roles a standards body is supposed to play, to help developers understand what is available for general use and what is currently being drafted and refined.
# [00:08] <keithclarkcouk> caniuse.com?
# [00:09] <BrianBlakely> CarterRabasa: Of course I need to be base and ask about features… IE10 will have CSS gradients, why can't that be backported to IE9 as well, obviating the one need most have for filters? I don't completely understand the IE release philosophy.
# [00:10] <CarterRabasa> It's not base, all questions are welcome. I think there's a general philosophy among most software/platform vendors regarding backporting. It's very rarely done, due to the engineering hurdles.
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# [00:10] <CarterRabasa> Justinfront, how familiar are you with the W3C or WHATWG?
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# [00:11] <paul_irish> justinfront: caniuse is pretty close. me and nimbu are developing a complementary site that will help too
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# [00:12] <BrianBlakely> CarterRabasa: Thanks. To follow up, has the team moved on from IE9, aside from security updates? Will we see anymore features for developers on Vista/7?
# [00:12] <keithclarkcouk> paul_irish: sounds interesting
# [00:12] <BrianBlakely> paul_irish: Same project you mentioned @ Huge talk?
# [00:12] <paul_irish> yes.
# [00:13] <paul_irish> i tease my projects for a while.
# [00:13] <paul_irish> aka i take forever to ship
# [00:13] <BrianBlakely> haha
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# [00:15] <paul_irish> BUT. there is progress on it! this weekend even
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# [00:15] <paul_irish> lots
# [00:15] <CarterRabasa> BrianBlakely: IE9 is a wrap, but IE10 keeps the developer love alive on Windows 7
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# [00:16] <BrianBlakely> CarterRabasa: Oh really? I'd heard that IE10 would be Windows 8 exclusive!
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# [00:16] <BrianBlakely> CarterRabasa: Was that just a rumor or have plans changed?
# [00:16] <justinfront> I am haxe coder... from flash background standards mean that you use flash and you know what the user will see :) Now that I use haxe mostly I approach html/javascript from the same perspective... must admit I am not overly interested in css or html... as far as I am concerned coding layout is much simpler and for the stuff that interests me it may not be such an issue.
# [00:16] <nimbu> LOTS
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# [00:18] <CarterRabasa> BrianBlakely: you can get your hands on IE10 on Windows 7 right now - http://www.ietestdrive.com
# [00:18] <justinfront> when I say simpler i would be inclined to make a layout/tween editor... but I really don't know where I can really understand what commands I can tap into and what freedom I can setup.
# [00:18] <BrianBlakely> CarterRabasa: Right, I wasn't sure how that reflected the final strategy. So, just to confirm, no Vista support right?
# [00:19] <justinfront> paul where is your site?
# [00:20] <CarterRabasa> BrianBlakely: Not as of IE10 PP2, sorry I don't have a more definitive roadmap for you.
# [00:21] <BrianBlakely> CarterRabasa: Quite alright, your answers have been very helpful :)
# [00:23] <justinfront> for instance if I wanted to create a WordPress pure javascript semi alternative, but without themes just a wysiwyg editor where would I find out what css/javascript etc... I could rely on for X% of users? And should I be using RSS1 RSS2 RDF or what ever for the data if it was XML based rather than database.
# [00:23] <CarterRabasa> paul_irish: can I contribute my favorite HTML5 resource for #html5?
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# [00:24] <paul_irish> CarterRabasa: what is it?
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# [00:25] <CarterRabasa> paul_irish: http://twitter.com/#!/html5douche, it's a daily read for me :)
# [00:25] <paul_irish> hahahahha
# [00:25] <paul_irish> ++
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# [00:28] <justinfront> I left twitter, NOT SURE I SHOULD REJOIN
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# [00:30] <acidjazz> is there a canvas specific irc channel?
# [00:30] <justinfront> well the obvious ones are dead ?
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# [00:33] <keithclarkcouk> if an answer to IE10's JScript dropping CC's appears, could someone let me know?
# [00:34] <justinfront> well still non the wiser on how you guys actually tell which features are supported on average
# [00:34] <acidjazz> u guys see the tomshardware ie9 tests
# [00:34] <CarterRabasa> keithclarkcouk: have a way for me to reach you?
# [00:34] <acidjazz> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/internet-explorer-9-chrome-10-opera-11,2897-14.html
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# [00:34] <acidjazz> kidna old but just came across it..
# [00:35] <acidjazz> interesting
# [00:35] <paul_irish> he's @keithclarkcouk on twittrrrrr
# [00:35] <keithclarkcouk> what Paul said :)
# [00:35] <paul_irish> acidjazz: canvas channel is here
# [00:35] <CarterRabasa> keithclarkcouk: I'll ping you, thanks for the Q!
# [00:36] <keithclarkcouk> CarterRabasa: thanks
# [00:36] <justinfront> Just saw this... http://hipsteripsum.me/
# [00:37] <monteslu> speaking of canvas... https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/fhkicjglfjkfdfooebaaaokcjgiddbde I can drag and drop images onto this canvas and send them across the wire now
# [00:37] <monteslu> even works in FF :)
# [00:37] <keithclarkcouk> night all
# [00:37] <monteslu> sorry, had to tell someone. just got it to work
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# [00:38] <monteslu> oh, and the images get shrunken down because app engine's channel API limits messages to 32k
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# [00:41] <acidjazz> is htere canvas Image() functionality to bring that image to the front?
# [00:41] <acidjazz> lets say images were drawn after it and are layered on top
# [00:41] <monteslu> acidjazz, canvas is a raster
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# [00:42] <monteslu> but you can maintain your own dom and repaint
# [00:42] <acidjazz> so no
# [00:42] <monteslu> or use dojox.gfx to manage it for you
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# [00:42] <monteslu> i'm doing it
# [00:42] <acidjazz> raster as in a rectangular grid?
# [00:42] <monteslu> but working around it with keep ojbects to do a psuedo vector graphics
# [00:43] <monteslu> raster is pixels
# [00:43] <monteslu> vector is math
# [00:43] <acidjazz> ok how about this .. something to destroy it
# [00:43] <acidjazz> remove it?
# [00:43] <BrianBlakely> http://twitter.com/#!/html5douche/status/67701832566325249
# [00:43] <socialhapy> http://bit.ly/kjObO1 @html5douche: WHY IS MY ________??
# [00:43] <socialhapy> BECAUSE LEARN JAVASCRIPT.
# [00:43] <BrianBlakely> ...yeah...
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# [00:43] <monteslu> acidjazz, you need to maintain a list of objects and repaint the ones you want to keep
# [00:44] <acidjazz> yea i know how to work around what im asking
# [00:44] <acidjazz> but i 1st wanted to ask if it existed :)
# [00:44] <monteslu> sure, its called SVG :)
# [00:44] <nimbu> :)))
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# [00:45] <acidjazz> i wish i could use svg
# [00:45] <monteslu> then use dojox.gfx
# [00:45] <acidjazz> client specifically wants 'html5' thanks to marketing attacking this functionality
# [00:45] <monteslu> and render to canvas
# [00:45] <monteslu> let it maintain the objects
# [00:45] <monteslu> that's what I do with drawitlive.com
# [00:45] <acidjazz> i can write stuff to maintain em i just wanted to make sure i had to
# [00:45] <CarterRabasa> Hey, this was fun! If anyone has any more questions about IE9/IE10 you can ping me at http://twitter.com/carterrabasa. Thanks for the invite @aul_irish!
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# [00:47] <BrianBlakely> acidjazz: Use Raphaël
# [00:47] <BrianBlakely> It's better than HTML5
# [00:48] <acidjazz> thanks BrianBlakely
# [00:48] <acidjazz> this looks legit
# [00:49] <monteslu> no, use dojox.gfx it has more rendering paths :)
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# [00:49] <acidjazz> these libs must be fun tow rite
# [00:50] <acidjazz> to write*
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# [00:50] <monteslu> probably some parts. But learning things like flash and VML to render to seem kinda boring
# [00:50] <BrianBlakely> monteslu I will fight you
# [00:50] <monteslu> Bring it!
# [00:51] <BrianBlakely> It's brought!
# [00:51] <monteslu> hmmm... not sure where to go next
# [00:51] * monteslu sweeps the leg
# [00:51] <BrianBlakely> NOOOO
# [00:52] <monteslu> defeat does not exist in the dojo, does it?
# [00:52] <acidjazz> monteslu: noway thats the fun part
# [00:52] <monteslu> and a double entendre at that!
# [00:53] <monteslu> acidjazz, if youre a masochist, could be great fun
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# [01:01] <acidjazz> monteslu: more just ocd
# [01:02] <monteslu> ocd in needing to know the full codebase?
# [01:02] <monteslu> I'm ok with some things staying black boxes
# [01:02] <acidjazz> no more just hte will/want to write one
# [01:02] <monteslu> ahh
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# [01:16] <tw2113> anyone with good webkit experience in here?
# [01:16] <tw2113> especially in relations to fonts
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# [01:17] <paul_irish> ?ask @ tw2113
# [01:17] <bot-t1> tw2113, If you have a question, please just ask it. Don't look for topic experts. Don't ask to ask. Don't PM! Don't ask if people are awake, or in the mood to help. Just ask the question straight out. http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
# [01:17] <tw2113> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3534225/fontissue.jpg
# [01:17] <tw2113> i have text being cut off and i've never been sure why
# [01:18] <BrianBlakely> tw2113: line-height? font-size? Checked both?
# [01:19] <tw2113> looks like no line-height set but font size is set
# [01:19] <tw2113> and it's never permanent, i could scroll that part off-screen and then scroll back and it'd be completely show
# [01:19] <tw2113> shown
# [01:23] <tw2113> the only idea i can come up with, is perhaps a conversion issue for the use with @font-face
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# [01:24] <justinfront> tw2113 in haXe javascript I just resize the div after setting the text, not had problems.
# [01:28] <tw2113> i have no idea how to effectively google for this either
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# [01:51] <BrianBlakely> tw2113: Set zoom: 1;
# [01:51] <BrianBlakely> ;)
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# [01:51] <grantg> ping: xonecas
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# [01:52] <grantg> Started doing some major NES work yesterday, should we github it? http://pastebin.com/3B0NS4S8
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# [01:53] <tw2113> isn't that for IE BrianBlakely ?
# [01:54] <grantg> tw2113: Has anything happening in here lately?
# [01:54] <tw2113> people come in and out grantg
# [01:55] <grantg> k
# [01:55] <tw2113> and i'm trying to figure out some webkit typography issues
# [01:55] <grantg> tw2113: I couldn't take the slowness of jsnes anymore, hence that pastebin of the beginnings of a new javascript nes emu. :)
# [01:56] <grantg> jsnes does things wrong in so many ways.
# [01:56] <grantg> (and by that also vNES)
# [01:56] <tw2113> whatever blows in your cartridge grantg ;)
# [01:57] <grantg> decode your address modes with the opcodes at the same time, not separately... ಠ_ಠ
# [01:57] <grantg> and funcs in array EVERYTHING. :D
# [01:57] <grantg> :D :D :D
# [01:58] <grantg> way faster than the jsception in jsnes
# [01:59] <grantg> inline ALL the things as well.
# [02:00] <grantg> (part of the reason jsnes ran so slowly in firefox)
# [02:00] <grantg> (was not much inlining)
# [02:01] <BrianBlakely> tw2113: Yeah, I'm just joking around, as that property can fix very similar issues in IE (enables hasLayout)
# [02:01] <BrianBlakely> Good niiight!
# [02:01] <grantg> BrianBlakely: nn
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# [02:01] <grantg> oh god, hasLayout talk
# [02:01] <tw2113> so zoom, even though it's a proprietary thing from MS, can fix webkit @font-face issues
# [02:01] <grantg> I hope we don't go back to y2k with zoom fixes. :/
# [02:02] <grantg> oh god oh god
# [02:02] <grantg> :X
# [02:02] <tw2113> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3534225/fontissue.jpg
# [02:02] <grantg> see no evil, speak no evil, hear no evil. :S
# [02:02] <tw2113> that's a pic of what i'm trying to solve grantg
# [02:03] <grantg> have you tried vertical alignment tricks?
# [02:03] <tw2113> no
# [02:03] <tw2113> i think it's a rendering bug, because it's not a permanent thing
# [02:03] <grantg> hmm
# [02:03] <tw2113> scroll away and then return and there's no cutoff
# [02:03] <grantg> what kind of positioning do you use?
# [02:04] <grantg> relative, static, absolute? for the container
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# [02:04] <grantg> try seeing if fiddling the container div style can help.
# [02:04] <tw2113> doesn't look like much style at all
# [02:05] <grantg> some weird crap happens on all browsers under weird cases.
# [02:05] <tw2113> some floating
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# [02:06] <grantg> Have you tried switching out the font-families through some js fu?
# [02:07] <grantg> then switching it back?
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# [02:07] <tw2113> no
# [02:07] <tw2113> i wonder if i got a bad conversion to ttf or whatever, as i think i may have had to steal the font
# [02:07] <tw2113> Futura
# [02:08] <grantg> you might wanna force a repaint by doing some js stuff.
# [02:08] <grantg> that touches the styles
# [02:08] <tw2113> hmm
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# [06:39] <skyfaller> hi folks, can anybody help me figure out why a particular javascript widget prevents my site from validating? It's http://identi.ca/js/identica-badge.js - you can see it at http://html5.validator.nu/?doc=http%3A%2F%2Fskyfaller.net%2Fblog%2F&showsource=yes
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# [07:07] <danheberden> skyfaller if you read the reason why on the validator warning, it tells you
# [07:07] <skyfaller> I see the warning, but it doesn't make sense to me...
# [07:07] <danheberden> make sure <script> is on it's own line
# [07:07] <danheberden> <p>
# [07:07] <danheberden> <script>
# [07:07] <danheberden> like that
# [07:08] <skyfaller> oh, really?
# [07:08] <skyfaller> that's what it means?
# [07:08] <skyfaller> it totally doesn't say that :P
# [07:08] <danheberden> also you're putting an object in there
# [07:09] <danheberden> that might be what the validator is choking on. try the new lines first
# [07:10] <skyfaller> hm... Wordpress loves inserting <p> tags where I don't intend for them to be :/
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# [07:13] <skyfaller> ok, even if I turn off <p> tags entirely it doesn't fix it :P
# [07:14] <danheberden> yeah, putting shit between the <script> tags like that is kinda weird when referencing an external source
# [07:14] <skyfaller> danheberden: what do you mean by an "object"?
# [07:15] <skyfaller> Is there another way to run the script from an external source?
# [07:15] <danheberden> the content between <script> and </script> is an object
# [07:16] <skyfaller> danheberden: I don't know how else to run the external script, do you have another suggestion?
# [07:16] <danheberden> don't validate?
# [07:16] <skyfaller> hahaha
# [07:16] <skyfaller> fair enough
# [07:16] <danheberden> or copy the js file and adjust it
# [07:16] <skyfaller> for the record, the Twitter script right below it validates
# [07:16] <danheberden> the init function is taking the contents of the script tag with that js file in the src and parseing the json content in it manually
# [07:18] <skyfaller> I just don't understand why the Identi.ca script makes the validator choke but the Twitter script which is also putting an object in there
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# [07:18] <skyfaller> works fine
# [07:18] <skyfaller> validates fine, I mean
# [07:18] <danheberden> that's not the same
# [07:19] <skyfaller> it's not? what's different?
# [07:19] <danheberden> see how the identica one is the <script src="http://yadayada"> { "user" : "skyfaller" }</script> ?
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# [07:19] <danheberden> so the script tag is pulling a remote source
# [07:19] <danheberden> AND has content
# [07:19] <danheberden> which won't get parsed
# [07:19] <danheberden> now take a look at the twitter one
# [07:19] <danheberden> it's just <script>
# [07:19] <skyfaller> oh...
# [07:19] <danheberden> no src attribute
# [07:19] <danheberden> so it's gonna run that JS inside of it
# [07:19] <skyfaller> I see
# [07:19] <skyfaller> wow
# [07:19] <danheberden> that's how the identica one SHOULD do it
# [07:20] <skyfaller> thank you for pointing that out, I didn't understand the difference
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# [07:20] <danheberden> so you can add the identica js to your own js file, and remove the part in the init function where it seeks that out
# [07:20] <skyfaller> Just to repeat the blindingly obvious for me, why is that the proper way to do it again?
# [07:21] <danheberden> the proper way would be either to have that object available as a global, or to have a way for you to start up the process and provide the object
# [07:21] <danheberden> kind of like the new TWTR.Widget() constructor is doing
# [07:21] <danheberden> it's creating the widget based on the passed in info
# [07:22] <skyfaller> hm, I see...
# [07:23] <skyfaller> danheberden: Thank you for all of your help, I understand what is going on significantly better now, even if I am still a javascript noob :)
# [07:23] <danheberden> np - there's also #javascript which might be able to help you with the JS part of it
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# [08:00] <jblomo> is there a good way to run an init() function after a <script defer> source has been loaded?
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# [08:03] <moo-_-> jblomo: call it from the script source
# [08:03] <moo-_-> jblomo: create your own .js by merging files
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# [08:06] <jblomo> moo-_-: so if each page initializes slightly differently, i should have a .js that calls the init function for the page, and include that with a defer after the library?
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# [08:20] <moo-_-> jblomo:
# [08:20] <moo-_-> no
# [08:20] <moo-_-> you should have init function in .js file itself
# [08:20] <moo-_-> as the last line
# [08:20] <moo-_-> that's what I had to do with some ugly third party JS libraries
# [08:21] <moo-_-> if it's in the file itself it surely gets executed when it is loaded
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# [08:36] <brettgoulder> :P
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# [08:54] <jblomo> moo-_-: thanks!
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#
# Session Start: Tue Aug 16 14:45:40 2011
# Session Ident: #html5
# [14:45] * Now talking in #html5
# [14:45] * Topic is 'Ask any question about HTML5 & Friends || HTML5 Spec for Developers: http://developers.whatwg.org || Also: http://html5rocks.com http://diveintohtml5.org http://mzl.la/9giLwR || Channel logs: http://j.mp/cG7UDa'
# [14:45] * Set by marienz!~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz on Wed Aug 10 22:18:05
# [14:45] -verne.freenode.net:#html5- [freenode-info] channel trolls and no channel staff around to help? please check with freenode support: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp
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# [17:55] <cylentwolf> http://venturebeat.com/2011/08/16/linkedin-node/
# [17:55] <cylentwolf> interesting html5 revamp for linked in
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# [19:10] <paul_irish> http://fgnass.github.com/spin.js/
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# [19:14] <nimbu> more like IRL fan spin.js
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# [19:32] <rilp> anybody knows an application similar to http://www.flashxml.net/3d-wall.html but done in html5???
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# [19:33] <johnkpaul> this is very slightly similar http://peterned.home.xs4all.nl/3d/
# [19:33] <johnkpaul> but you probably already found that
# [19:34] <rilp> nope, I haven´t seen it yet, thanks.
# [19:35] <rilp> Because Im looking something like this to cuztomize it. But I hate flah, to slow to load
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# [19:40] <johnkpaul> if you make that, it would be an awesome canvas demo
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# [20:43] <danbeam> does anybody have a good experience with a Flash -> HTML5 cross-compiler?
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# [20:44] <danbeam> (Flash -> SVG/JS/Canvas/WebGL/etc.*)
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# [21:07] <monteslu> danbeam, don't know of a compiler, but I think there's a couple of HTML5 runtimes for flash
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# [21:16] <danbeam> monteslu: i.e. Gordon?
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# [21:26] <ivector> hi!
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# [21:28] <ivector> i wanna try to do a streaming in HTML5 (free codecs), suggestions?
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# [21:30] <WILDsharustar> #research
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# [22:33] <gavacho> how should i markup something like
# [22:34] <gavacho> "This is the best thing ever." - Mr. Satisfiedcustomer
# [22:35] <nikstepff> gavacho: use http://www.w3schools.com/html5/tag_blockquote.asp
# [22:35] <gavacho> got that far
# [22:36] <gavacho> <blockquote>"this is the best thing ever."<span class="attribution">Mr. Satisfiedcustomer</span></blockquote>
# [22:36] <gavacho> ?
# [22:36] <nikstepff> gavacho: Yes, something like that
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# [22:38] <gavacho> the mdash seems like a style concern
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# [22:38] <gavacho> is there any way to add it via css?
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# [22:40] <johnkpaul> gavacho: you can use the css property 'content'
# [22:41] <gavacho> excellent thanks
# [22:41] <BrianBlakely> gavacho: I think you should use <q>: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/HTML/Element/q
# [22:41] <shepazu> gavacho: yes, you can use replaced content
# [22:42] <BrianBlakely> I consider <blockquote> as a quote from an outside resource
# [22:43] <BrianBlakely> If a resource doesn't exist, using <q> seems appropriate
# [22:43] <shepazu> span.attribution:before {
# [22:43] <shepazu> content: "–";
# [22:43] <shepazu> }
# [22:43] <gavacho> perfect
# [22:43] <gavacho> much thanks
# [22:43] <shepazu> (note, that is untested)
# [22:43] <gavacho> i prefer to test in production anyways
# [22:43] <gavacho> thanks
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# [22:45] <gavacho> brian: do you have an opinion about whether or not <span class="attribution"> should be contained by <q> or a sibling-of
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# [22:46] <shepazu> gavacho: ok, tested that, and it works
# [22:47] <BrianBlakely> gavacho: That's not a problem. Keep in mind that <blockquote> resets the outline of the document. It's kind of meant to be a "cut-out" in the page.
# [22:47] <BrianBlakely> Also, gavacho, reference to? http://i.qkme.me/5cnm.jpg
# [22:47] <BrianBlakely> ;)
# [22:47] <gavacho> yes
# [22:47] <gavacho> :)
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# [22:49] <shepazu> gavacho: in fact, this is even nicer… span.attribution:before { content: "” –"; } blockquote:before { content: "“";}
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# [22:57] <BrianBlakely> Remember you can concatenate values, too
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# [22:58] <BrianBlakely> So you could do <q data-citation="Gary Spencer">I like cheese</q> … and then… q:before { content: """; } q:after { content: "" - " attr(data-citation); }
# [22:59] <BrianBlakely> And really, really scale down the markup in that way
# [22:59] <BrianBlakely> Actually, you might want to use ARIA attribute for accessibility purposes…
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# [23:02] <gavacho> awesome!
# [23:02] <gavacho> thanks
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# [23:13] <elkng> there are many sites entirely in flash, they cant be browsed without using flash in browser, can similar site with the same usability be written without flash using html5 ?
# [23:16] <gavacho> no, you cant use html5 to make a site that's only viewable using flash in the browser
# [23:16] <elkng> or flash will not be superseded by html5 entirely ?
# [23:16] <eggsby> I think you're looking at the problem incorrectly elkng
# [23:16] <elkng> an multimedia sites still will be writed using flash technology
# [23:17] <eggsby> html5 isn't a replacement for flash, but with supplemental technologies you can recreate things that previously could only be made with flash
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# [23:21] <Jayflux> gavacho i don't think that's what he was asking.
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# [23:36] <elkng> I'm just curious if html5 is such a powerful technology, even quake2 was rewriten using it, will it superced flash technology on web sites ?
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# [23:37] <elkng> s/superced/supersede/
# [23:37] <sic1> the problem is right now, that you cant fully support what you would do in html5 in non modern browsers (ie7)
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# [23:37] <sic1> so it depends on what you are trying to do
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# [23:38] <sic1> and what kind of user base you need to support
# [23:38] <elkng> or I steel be receive messages like: "Hello, you either have JavaScript turned off or an old version of Adobe's Flash Player. Get the latest Flash player." ?
# [23:38] <sic1> flash covers everyone because people have flash on their computer (for the most part)
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# [23:38] <elkng> in place of actual page
# [23:39] <sic1> what browser are you on?
# [23:39] <elkng> Konqueror: 3.5.4
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# [23:40] <sic1> i hardly know what to say right now
# [23:40] <sic1> that was a curve ball
# [23:40] <sic1> ok, so, ur crazy - go get chrome - then u dont even need to worry about this. you will have flash support and all the latest greatest html5 support
# [23:41] <sic1> :)
# [23:41] <sic1> so side note: been doin some html templating tests today, and jQote2 is very much overlooked
# [23:41] <sic1> http://jsperf.com/dom-vs-innerhtml-based-templating/192
# [23:42] <steveroberts> FF6.0 out today, anyone tried it?
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# [23:45] <sic1> i have not
# [23:46] <sic1> i've lost touch with FF a bit...
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# [23:53] <monteslu> danbeam, actually swiffy does a full conversion
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# Session Close: Wed Aug 17 00:00:00 2011

The end :)