/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-08-22 / end

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  4. # [00:04] <estellevw> Bug 13855
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  69. # [03:11] <jimi_hendrix> hi, i am doing some drawing on canvas, and i am having a problem with drawing arcs. when i call arc(), it seems to connect the arc with the start of the next line I draw with lineTo, despite me moving to the starting point with moveTo. is this typical? i am using chromium for testing
  70. # [03:18] <jimi_hendrix> nvm
  71. # [03:18] <jimi_hendrix> i resolved the issue
  72. # [03:18] <jimi_hendrix> now clue what i did
  73. # [03:18] <jimi_hendrix> no*
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  86. # [03:44] <Lochlan> hi guys
  87. # [03:44] <Lochlan> quick question-
  88. # [03:44] <Lochlan> standard page with 2 columns, one side column then the main content
  89. # [03:45] <Lochlan> usually i'd use 2 divs to separate them
  90. # [03:45] <Lochlan> would I use <section> instead in html5?
  91. # [03:45] <ryanseddon> is it for styling purposes or does it play a semantic role?
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  93. # [03:46] <ryanseddon> if it's styling only use a div if it's actually a section then use a section tag
  94. # [03:46] <Lochlan> ok, so it'd be <section id="sideBar"> and then <section id="content"> for example
  95. # [03:46] <Lochlan> so it's semantic
  96. # [03:46] <Lochlan> thanks
  97. # [03:47] <ryanseddon> well sidebar could be an aside tag
  98. # [03:47] <Lochlan> ohhh
  99. # [03:47] <Lochlan> aside
  100. # [03:47] <Lochlan> ill google it
  101. # [03:48] <Lochlan> How strict should this relationship be? Very. Good <aside> content examples include pull-quotes, a glossary or even related links.
  102. # [03:48] <Lochlan> awesome
  103. # [03:48] <Lochlan> thanks
  104. # [03:48] <ryanseddon> aside if it's within an article tag should be directly realted to that outside it should be related to the page
  105. # [03:49] <Lochlan> The most common misconception of how this element should be used is for the standard sidebar. While there is usually a degree of relation between sidebar content and the content in an article, it is not enough to be considered fit for an <aside>. Navigation, ads, search boxes, blogrolls and so on are not directly related to the article and therefore do not justify the use of an <aside>.
  106. # [03:49] <Lochlan> hmm
  107. # [03:50] <ryanseddon> aside has changed semnatically since it was introduced
  108. # [03:50] <Lochlan> ok
  109. # [03:50] <Lochlan> i think I can use aside in this case
  110. # [03:50] <ryanseddon> I could be wrong but check out http://html5doctor.com/aside-revisited/
  111. # [03:50] <Lochlan> ok
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  113. # [03:52] <Lochlan> and instead of section id=content
  114. # [03:52] <Lochlan> i use use an article tag
  115. # [03:52] <Lochlan> i could use*
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  118. # [04:04] <ryanseddon> if it falls into the right context to use it then go for it
  119. # [04:05] <ryanseddon> html5doctor has a great index on when to use what tags
  120. # [04:07] <Lochlan> awesome
  121. # [04:07] <Lochlan> I've only read a bit about it
  122. # [04:07] <Lochlan> need to give it all a good read
  123. # [04:08] <Lochlan> might get a book
  124. # [04:08] <Lochlan> i bought a web standards book when I was first starting out and it really helped
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  126. # [04:12] <tw2113> +1 for html5doc
  127. # [04:12] <tw2113> btw allo ryanseddon
  128. # [04:12] <ryanseddon> yo
  129. # [04:13] <ryanseddon> were you one of the peeps on twitter who mentioned the font dragr error in linux?
  130. # [04:13] <tw2113> i am
  131. # [04:13] <tw2113> same ID here as on there
  132. # [04:13] <ryanseddon> it should be fixed now
  133. # [04:14] <tw2113> cool
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  135. # [04:16] <tw2113> not seeing any errors pop up, so that's good
  136. # [04:17] <ryanseddon> so is the font loading when you drop it? I fired up ubuntu and had no problems in FF5
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  138. # [04:18] <tw2113> i think i generally have to click the editor tab
  139. # [04:18] <tw2113> but once there, it's switching
  140. # [04:19] <ryanseddon> yeah the font should only affect the font list on the homepage, editor is where you see it applied
  141. # [04:23] <tw2113> golden then
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  222. # [09:19] <cups> hey guys when I scale a div using css3 transform it doesn't actually change the dimensions of the div right? Meaning the other elements in the document don't adjust their flow based on the new size of the transformed div
  223. # [09:19] <paul_irish> right
  224. # [09:19] <paul_irish> transforms operate outside element flow
  225. # [09:20] <cups> wow hey paul, I've been looking at your work online
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  227. # [09:20] <cups> is there anyway to transform divs in css that operate inside the element flow?
  228. # [09:22] <paul_irish> hmmmmmmmmm
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  230. # [09:22] <paul_irish> havent heard that one before.
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  232. # [09:22] <cups> I was interesting in combining a technique like that with media queries
  233. # [09:22] <paul_irish> and do what
  234. # [09:23] <cups> I thought there might be something there with working on grids
  235. # [09:24] <nimbu> if its horizontal and vertical scaling you need you can sort of fake that with changing the font size and setting width and height in ems
  236. # [09:25] <cups> kind of going off of the folding or combining of columns that I saw in the golden grid system
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  238. # [09:26] <skylamer`> look nice buttons : + http://lab.simurai.com/css/metal/
  239. # [09:26] <skylamer`> xD
  240. # [09:26] <nimbu> cups: you should try but i think changing widths would be sufficient for what you are looking for. but if you have a fiddle that might explain it better :)
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  244. # [09:31] <cups> yeah I think you're right nimbu, not sure what I was going for.. but thanks for the info guys
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  304. # [11:52] <HugoDaniel> hi
  305. # [11:53] <HugoDaniel> can i have a <input type="radio"... without having a <form> parent tag ?
  306. # [11:53] <dr0id> I don't think that will validate
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  315. # [12:23] <Cracker2> hi. what would be the easier way to have all files in cache.manifest instead of typing manually 100+ files?
  316. # [12:25] <Lebannen> unfortunately, without a list, the browser doesn't know what to go and download :) Your best bet is probably to generate it using a script
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  349. # [13:38] <midgard> anyone know an frameborder css hack for ie <= 8 ?
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  396. # [15:38] <miketaylr> danbeam__: goggle, eh?
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  421. # [16:18] <eip56> morning all
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  493. # [18:17] <jimi_hendrix> with canvas, i am using arc() to draw a circle, but i end up getting a line from the center of the circle to the edge of the circle. i am drawing between beginPath/closePath, if that matters
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  501. # [18:21] <CoverSlide> jimi_hendrix: use stroke() instead of closePath()
  502. # [18:21] <jimi_hendrix> ok
  503. # [18:21] <CoverSlide> or fill() if you want it filled
  504. # [18:22] <jimi_hendrix> no i want it not filled
  505. # [18:22] <jimi_hendrix> that didnt seem to change anything
  506. # [18:23] <CoverSlide> maybe the answer is somewhere else in your code
  507. # [18:23] <jimi_hendrix> CoverSlide, well here is the draw function i am working on: http://pastebin.com/Nrd3jVMG
  508. # [18:24] <jimi_hendrix> all my other draw code that also uses arcs works
  509. # [18:25] <Aric> I get occasional job spam in my email and this latest said "This is a website with high traffic (over 4000 visits/day)." - does anyone really consider 4k hits in a whole day "high traffic"?
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  512. # [18:26] <josh24> can anyone explain the difference between boilerplate's normalize css and the one before? They both seem to do the same thing
  513. # [18:26] <CoverSlide> normalize.css is good
  514. # [18:26] <CoverSlide> old one is not so good
  515. # [18:26] <CoverSlide> big fat reset that gives you shitload of garbage in your style inspector
  516. # [18:26] <nimbu> haha
  517. # [18:27] <josh24> but would the normalize.css ones not appear in the inspector too?
  518. # [18:27] <nimbu> josh24: normalize does not do same thing as before.
  519. # [18:27] <CoverSlide> normalize doesn't try to 'reset' your styles
  520. # [18:27] <CoverSlide> it gives a good starting base that fixes edge cases between different browsers so they all start out looking the same
  521. # [18:27] <josh24> CoverSlide: how would normalize not appear in the inspector?
  522. # [18:27] <jimi_hendrix> CoverSlide, i might see what it is
  523. # [18:28] <CoverSlide> so you don't have to re-add all your font-weight: bold in your headers, etc.
  524. # [18:28] <CoverSlide> josh24: because it doesn't add or remove the whole font-size: 100%; display:block; etc. etc. to EVERY element
  525. # [18:29] <CoverSlide> it just adds styles to those elements that have different stylesheets in different browsers
  526. # [18:29] <CoverSlide> much cleaner
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  531. # [18:30] <CoverSlide> if you look at stuff with the old sheet, you get fifty repeats of the big reset at the top, becuase it's applied to every element, including all the parents of the element you're looking at
  532. # [18:31] <CoverSlide> listen to latest changelog podcast
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  540. # [18:34] <josh24> CoverSlide: thanks
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  609. # [20:21] <taylorRichie> I know this is the HTML5 irc, but thought I'd ask a quick question on how you guys organize your CSS… I've always organized it in order of the markup… ie html, body, container, header, header nav, content, etc. But I know some people just alphabetize… how do you organize and why?
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  613. # [20:32] <moo-_-> taylorRichie: what I have seen it has been always pretty much order of mark-up
  614. # [20:32] <tw2113> <header> stuff towards the top, <footer> stuff towards the bottom
  615. # [20:33] <tw2113> ie specific stuff at the bottom
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  617. # [20:33] <taylorRichie> moo-_- what about the elements within? ie, height width margin etc.? Alphabetical, or??
  618. # [20:33] <moo-_-> random
  619. # [20:33] <moo-_-> usually the list is so short
  620. # [20:34] <taylorRichie> Yeah me too… I just know some people have a strict method. Wondered if I should be more strict :D
  621. # [20:34] <tw2113> do what works for you
  622. # [20:35] <taylorRichie> tw2113: I agree, wasn't sure if there was a best practice… especially if you're working with a team and the team needs to edit. Thanks!
  623. # [20:35] <tw2113> nope, css organization is mostly a preference thing
  624. # [20:41] <taylorRichie> question: http://jsfiddle.net/taylorRichie/xfJc2/
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  626. # [20:41] <taylorRichie> is there anyway to break a single div out of a container?
  627. # [20:41] <taylorRichie> width wise? or will I have to close the previous container, and open a new one after?
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  642. # [21:05] <colinsullivan> Does anyone have experience with manipulating raw data in relation to the Filesystem APIs? I am trying to convert a blob to a string, then back to a blob, but can't seem to figure out how to do this.
  643. # [21:05] <colinsullivan> The FileReader (http://www.w3.org/TR/FileAPI/#dfn-filereader) converts to a string successfully, but when trying to create a new Blob from this string using a BlobBuilder, the resulting Blob is of a different size.
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  645. # [21:05] <colinsullivan> I think it is like re-interpreting the text as a new file, but I just want to put the raw data back into a Blob object
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  667. # [21:26] <mbrevda> trying to use event stream, network panel is showing failed - how can I see the raw response to debug whats going wrong?
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  671. # [21:31] <paul_irish> mbrevda: event stream?
  672. # [21:31] <paul_irish> maybe use Charles proxy
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  674. # [21:32] * mbrevda removes his hat in reverence
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  676. # [21:32] <mbrevda> that looks sweet, ill try it now
  677. # [21:32] * Ms2ger puts paul_irish' hat on his own head and runs off
  678. # [21:33] <paul_irish> OMG MY HAT
  679. # [21:33] <andrewjbaker_> Stop! Thief!^^
  680. # [21:33] <tw2113> paul_irish wears hats?
  681. # [21:33] <tw2113> that'd hide his dashing hair
  682. # [21:33] <Ms2ger> Cowboy hats
  683. # [21:33] <CoverSlide> paul_irish: hey great interview on changelog btw
  684. # [21:33] <paul_irish> thxxx
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  687. # [21:45] <mbrevda> paul_irish: thanks a million!
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  699. # [22:09] <Jayflux> do you guys usually put your nav inside your header? or header, close header then nav
  700. # [22:09] <taylorRichie> inside header for me.
  701. # [22:09] <CoverSlide> depends on the layout
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  703. # [22:09] <CoverSlide> 99% of the time it's inside header
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  716. # [22:18] <Thasmo> Hey folks, what do you think of those CSS grids: http://goldengridsystem.com/, http://cssgrid.net/, http://lessframework.com/ - would you recommend any other, responsive CSS grids?
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  722. # [22:23] <BrianBlakely> Thasmo: meh
  723. # [22:23] <Thasmo> :D
  724. # [22:24] <Thasmo> Anyone, any other oppinions? :D
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  727. # [22:29] <taylorRichie> I've used GOlden Grid… liked it for a minute… now I'm just a roll your own guy.
  728. # [22:29] <taylorRichie> I just found grid systems didn't always account for the designs I was creating.
  729. # [22:30] <nlogax> insufficiently griddy designs
  730. # [22:30] <peol> more like, GRITTY designs
  731. # [22:30] <peol> AM I RIGHT?!
  732. # [22:31] * Joins: Frippe (~Frippe@unaffiliated/frippe)
  733. # [22:32] <Thasmo> taylorRichie, so but you're using a grid system for websites?
  734. # [22:33] <peol> cool, https://twitter.com/#!/zacharyjohnson/status/105724737711382528
  735. # [22:33] <socialhapy> ★ Tweet from zacharyjohnson: CSS3 3D Spark Shower (you will need to view in Safari or Chrome) http://t.co/PMDrm6n via @zacharyjohnson ★ http://bit.ly/oIiw3f
  736. # [22:33] <taylorRichie> I tend to create my own grid system yes… However I have yet to make a responsive grid system for myself.
  737. # [22:34] <taylorRichie> I do work on a 960px wide wrap. I used to use the 960.gs as well.
  738. # [22:35] <Jon47> twitter just released their own css starter kit, includes some grid stuff: http://twitter.github.com/bootstrap/
  739. # [22:36] <taylorRichie> @jon47, that looks quite promising.
  740. # [22:36] <taylorRichie> Really like the form styling for defaults...
  741. # [22:36] <Thasmo> cool
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  744. # [22:41] <moo-_-> peol: looks like works fine in FF too
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  748. # [22:54] <BrianBlakely> peol moo-_- Low framerate in Chrome )
  749. # [22:54] <BrianBlakely> (< 30)
  750. # [22:55] <BrianBlakely> Sprite3D.js gets ridiculous framerates: http://minimal.be/lab/Sprite3D/examples/titleExample.htm
  751. # [22:56] <BrianBlakely> http://minimal.be/lab/Sprite3D/#examples
  752. # [22:56] <BrianBlakely> Not sure exactly what the key is
  753. # [22:56] <moo-_-> BrianBlakely: which computer?
  754. # [22:56] <moo-_-> sorry OS
  755. # [22:57] <BrianBlakely> moo-_-: Snow Leopard
  756. # [22:57] * moo-_- is just about to start play with THREE.js
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  758. # [22:57] <BrianBlakely> moo-_-: Oh, different library
  759. # [22:57] <moo-_-> BrianBlakely: I found that sometimes plugging in power cable helps (OSX disables 3da cceleratation or something on battery power)
  760. # [22:57] * Quits: andr3 (~andr3@bl14-168-231.dsl.telepac.pt) (Quit: andr3)
  761. # [22:57] <moo-_-> at least on safari
  762. # [22:58] <moo-_-> of course, varies by mac model
  763. # [22:58] <BrianBlakely> moo-_-: Heh, interesting. FYI, I'm currently plugged in on Chrome 13
  764. # [22:58] <moo-_-> interesting as
  765. # [22:58] <moo-_-> "why the FASDF"#€"#€ it does not work any longer as it used"
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  768. # [23:00] <BrianBlakely> moo-_-: I'm typically really happy with Safari's HWA. Performs more smoothly than FF or Chrome. Thankfully, this extends to iOS.
  769. # [23:00] <BrianBlakely> moo-_-: Canvas is a different story, of course
  770. # [23:01] * moo-_- heavy <canvas> work ahead
  771. # [23:02] <BrianBlakely> moo-_-: I'm envious. I never have a really good excuse to use Canvas. While I do game development, in HTML5 it's 100% DOM-based (the only way to get great perf on iOS).
  772. # [23:02] <BrianBlakely> Canvas is an awesome reflection shim in Firefox, however
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  774. # [23:03] <BrianBlakely> I remember using it to that effect in 2008(!)
  775. # [23:03] <moo-_-> uh
  776. # [23:03] <BrianBlakely> moo-_-: ?
  777. # [23:03] <moo-_-> too slow on every browser http://mrdoob.github.com/three.js/examples/canvas_geometry_panorama.html
  778. # [23:03] <moo-_-> (using 2d canvas)
  779. # [23:03] <paul_irish> https://github.com/xdissent/ievms looks amazing
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  781. # [23:04] <BrianBlakely> moo-_-: Noooo do not use three.js's 2D context
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  784. # [23:05] <CoverSlide> those vm's are huge
  785. # [23:05] <CoverSlide> i'd rather have one vm, and run IETester on em
  786. # [23:05] <BrianBlakely> I use two VMs: one for IE9, another for IE6
  787. # [23:05] <CoverSlide> like how http://browserling.com/ does it
  788. # [23:05] <moo-_-> BrianBlakely: I was hoping to achieve IE9 compatibility
  789. # [23:05] <moo-_-> shit
  790. # [23:06] <paul_irish> i have run into too many inconsistencies with ietester
  791. # [23:06] <BrianBlakely> moo-_-: I know, I looked into doing the same thing. Only hyper-simple scenes perform well
  792. # [23:07] <BrianBlakely> IE9's emulation of 7/8 is correct in, like, 99% of situations
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  794. # [23:07] <moo-_-> BrianBlakely: does it render textures in JS loop or something? >_<
  795. # [23:09] <CoverSlide> happy Apple patch Monday!
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  798. # [23:09] <moo-_-> BrianBlakely: luckily not. looks like it uses context.transform()
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  804. # [23:20] <andrewjbaker_> I use 360 panoramic sky in Fleeting Fantasy. But it's just a single image that's 1920x100 pixels.
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  808. # [23:22] <andrewjbaker_> moo-_-, http://steppe.fleetingfantasy.com/ Sky is just a single 360-degree panoramic image. It renders w/ at most 2 calls to drawImage().
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  812. # [23:22] <moo-_-> andrewjbaker_: nice!
  813. # [23:23] <moo-_-> I think the example above does sky box
  814. # [23:23] <moo-_-> and that's why it is so slow
  815. # [23:23] <andrewjbaker_> Yeah.
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  817. # [23:27] * theresa_away is now known as theresaanna
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  820. # [23:30] <moo-_-> andrewjbaker_: do you know if browsers provide any sensible suspend behavior or does requestAnimationFrame() do it?
  821. # [23:30] <moo-_-> like
  822. # [23:30] <moo-_-> I open your page
  823. # [23:30] <moo-_-> leave it background, switch aplication
  824. # [23:30] <moo-_-> the browser still eats 100% CPU
  825. # [23:31] <andrewjbaker_> RAF should suspend it.
  826. # [23:31] <andrewjbaker_> Just be careful if you're using AJAX calls. Cos' they queue...
  827. # [23:32] <andrewjbaker_> And then fire off all in one go. At least, Louis mentioned it some time back over on #bbg. He noticed it w/ a Crafty demo he was working on.
  828. # [23:33] * Joins: beeeviz (~beevi2@ip-78-94-76-99.unitymediagroup.de)
  829. # [23:33] <andrewjbaker_> He ended up effectively DDOS'ing his server, LOL.
  830. # [23:34] <moo-_-> hmm
  831. # [23:34] <moo-_-> yes
  832. # [23:34] <BrianBlakely> moo-_- andrewjbaker_ Page Visibility API
  833. # [23:34] <moo-_-> my friend was working on TinyMCE
  834. # [23:34] * Quits: dgathright (~dgathrigh@nat/yahoo/x-scmfugudfnddnhtz) (Quit: dgathright)
  835. # [23:34] <moo-_-> and he ended up doing 500 AJAX request to his server
  836. # [23:34] * Quits: beeviz (~beevi2@ip-78-94-76-99.unitymediagroup.de) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  837. # [23:35] * Quits: BrianBlakely (~Adium@out.dentsuamerica.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
  838. # [23:36] <andrewjbaker_> BrianBlakely, yeah, that's the one mate. I forgot what it's called. moo-_- http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Graphics/RequestAnimationFrame/Default.html
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  843. # [23:41] <andrewjbaker_> moo-_-, For handling the AJAX request stuff, I'm considering using this: http://code.google.com/p/jquery-ajaxq/
  844. # [23:41] <moo-_-> andrewjbaker_: nice!
  845. # [23:41] * moo-_- tweets
  846. # [23:42] <andrewjbaker_> ^^
  847. # [23:43] <andrewjbaker_> Having control over queued AJAX requests sounds really quite useful for real-time HTML5 games.
  848. # [23:44] <CoverSlide> websockets sounds even better
  849. # [23:46] <andrewjbaker_> It does. But I like the idea of repurposing the structure that surrounds AJAX and this statement intrigues me: "The requests will run almost simultaneously. Moreover, the response to the second request may come first."
  850. # [23:47] <David_Bradbury> Blahhh, a client has Javascript disabled and wants to know why the page doesn't look right
  851. # [23:47] <monteslu> GWT does this with logging that needs to be sent back to the server
  852. # [23:47] <CoverSlide> yes, I've written a few workarounds to that problem
  853. # [23:47] <andrewjbaker_> Nice.
  854. # [23:47] <monteslu> David_Bradbury, a client drinks water and wonders why he's not thirsty anymore :)
  855. # [23:47] <David_Bradbury> Exactly
  856. # [23:48] <David_Bradbury> He was testing it in IE8, particularly the jQuery slider on the main page
  857. # [23:48] <David_Bradbury> and disabled ActiveX
  858. # [23:48] <David_Bradbury> I like all the toolbars he has in his screenshot too :p
  859. # [23:48] * Quits: BigKing (~BigKing@p5DD6884B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
  860. # [23:49] <monteslu> cool. i hope he's got comet cursor
  861. # [23:49] <monteslu> and the alligator thing from 1998
  862. # [23:49] <CoverSlide> google search + bing search + ask toolbar !
  863. # [23:49] <David_Bradbury> Man, that app was so l33t
  864. # [23:49] <CoverSlide> BONZI BUDDY!!!!
  865. # [23:49] <David_Bradbury> Haha
  866. # [23:49] <monteslu> bonzi buddy!
  867. # [23:49] <monteslu> that's the one
  868. # [23:49] <David_Bradbury> Should make a Javascript Bonzi Buddy
  869. # [23:52] <trumpetmic> anyone experienced with the web storage polyfill by remy sharp? how does it work?
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  872. # [23:53] <moo-_-> David_Bradbury: can I hang Bonzi?
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  875. # [23:54] <trumpetmic> how does the localstorage polyfill from remy sharp work? is it replicating the functionality with cookies?
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  879. # [23:56] <David_Bradbury> Heh
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  881. # Session Close: Tue Aug 23 00:00:00 2011

The end :)