/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-08-27 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sat Aug 27 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
  3. # [00:00] <andrewjbaker> Ah... I hear 'time' and 'ventures' a lot. Bit puzzled by 'money' tho'. You don't need much money dude.
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  6. # [00:01] <Moo^_^> andrewjbaker: you need to hire at least one artist
  7. # [00:01] <Moo^_^> that's what I cannot do myself
  8. # [00:02] <andrewjbaker> Yeah, I once thought that. But there's plenty of free artwork available if you know where to look mate. You could try http://opengameart.org/
  9. # [00:03] <Moo^_^> andrewjbaker: that's useless
  10. # [00:03] <Moo^_^> if you want to make a real game, not any tetris clone
  11. # [00:03] <Moo^_^> game creation is 80% content, 20% programming
  12. # [00:03] <andrewjbaker> I'll hold you to that challenge.^^
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  15. # [00:06] <andrewjbaker> I'm gonna' use some of the art from OGA for Fleeting Fantasy. But I'm gonna' couple it w/ some POV-Ray magic.
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  47. # [00:19] <andrewjbaker> Ha, you can tell whose using IRCCloud.^^
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  63. # [00:36] <cheilmann> this is fun - calculating drop shadow blur http://jsfiddle.net/codepo8/eUYKu/26/
  64. # [00:38] <andrewjbaker> Now all you need to do is work it into a game. ;-)
  65. # [00:39] <andrewjbaker> cheilmann, did you develop this within jsfiddle, or externally and then drop it in?
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  68. # [00:40] <cheilmann> mix of both
  69. # [00:40] <cheilmann> I started on my local machine and then tweaked and got feedback in jsfiddle
  70. # [00:40] <cheilmann> I will write a blog post about the steps
  71. # [00:41] <cheilmann> I think it is a nice example for canvas
  72. # [00:41] <andrewjbaker> Excellent.
  73. # [00:41] <andrewjbaker> I added faux shadows to FF's tree sprites recently. But they're not terribly advanced.
  74. # [00:42] <cheilmann> I really start liking canvas for playful stuff
  75. # [00:42] <cheilmann> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/demos/detail/browser-fountain
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  77. # [00:42] <andrewjbaker> Yeah, I saw that too dude. Not touched particles myself.
  78. # [00:43] <cheilmann> this is another tutorial in the making :)
  79. # [00:43] <andrewjbaker> I'm not sure there's a place for 'em in FF yet. Maybe when people cast magic spells or something. We'll see. Or... maybe if a volcano erupts or a geyser or something.
  80. # [00:44] <andrewjbaker> "this is another tutorial in the making :)" <- :-D
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  82. # [00:44] <cheilmann> about:fountain
  83. # [00:44] <cheilmann> :)
  84. # [00:44] <andrewjbaker> LOL.
  85. # [00:45] <tw2113> yo
  86. # [00:45] <andrewjbaker> It'd be interesting mate. Perhaps if it also displayed some stats from Firefox's internals too. That'd be a nice addition.
  87. # [00:45] <andrewjbaker> Sorta' like a quick-and-dirty built-in benchmark.
  88. # [00:45] <andrewjbaker> Hey tw2113.
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  90. # [00:47] <cheilmann> it is also a bit brutal to do canvas demos in jsfiddle as it does tend to slow the browser down :)
  91. # [00:47] <cheilmann> and Textmate is still too good not to use
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  93. # [00:47] <andrewjbaker> Ah, I use vi.
  94. # [00:47] <cheilmann> especially when you work offline on trains and in cafes with no wireless or badly set up routers
  95. # [00:48] <andrewjbaker> Well you do travel a fair bit mate.
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  98. # [00:52] <andrewjbaker> cheilmann, this is my latest demo dude: http://steppe.fleetingfantasy.com/
  99. # [00:52] <tw2113> ack! one part i hate about moving, getting net set up in the new place takes forever
  100. # [00:53] <cheilmann> sweet.
  101. # [00:53] <cheilmann> I just thought you did a great job on the noise
  102. # [00:53] <cheilmann> but that is actually my screen :(
  103. # [00:53] <cheilmann> wiping now
  104. # [00:53] <tw2113> i'm going to have to migrate between coffee shops for longer than usual for a week
  105. # [00:54] <cheilmann> I am so tempted to port a few of the amiga voxelspace demos
  106. # [00:55] <andrewjbaker> Ha, LOL.
  107. # [00:55] <cheilmann> wow
  108. # [00:55] <cheilmann> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwtKI_Cx6Dw&feature=related
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  114. # [00:56] <andrewjbaker> cheilmann, ha, great stuff.
  115. # [00:58] <cheilmann> played with shade bobs the other day
  116. # [00:58] <cheilmann> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CGOh-jb4QM
  117. # [00:58] <cheilmann> 1:30 onwards
  118. # [00:58] <cheilmann> in Canvas, just don't wipe the canvas with rgb(0,0,0) but rgba(0,0,0,0.8) and you're there
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  122. # [01:00] * andrewjbaker looks...
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  125. # [01:03] <andrewjbaker> cheilmann, how do they animate the shade bobs? Palette-cycling?
  126. # [01:04] <cheilmann> yeah
  127. # [01:04] <cheilmann> and adaptive blending
  128. # [01:04] <cheilmann> simulated back then
  129. # [01:04] <cheilmann> nowadays we have it
  130. # [01:05] <andrewjbaker> Nice. I imagine the palette-cycling would be slower now, w/ 24-bit colour, there's no palette, per se.
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  132. # [01:07] <cheilmann> hah!
  133. # [01:07] <cheilmann> http://www.home.no/rudibs/dox/demoeffects%20list.txt
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  135. # [01:10] <cheilmann> I remember the c64 ones
  136. # [01:10] <cheilmann> http://www.c64.ch/data/picorig/vr-shadebobs.png
  137. # [01:11] <cheilmann> faking with opacity: http://sorex.is-a-geek.com/Swish/?op=showitem&id=16
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  141. # [01:14] <andrewjbaker> Ah, I was a ZX Spectrum fan.
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  145. # [01:25] <grantg> So were part of the Zilog Z80 camp then? :P
  146. # [01:25] <bot-t> (51 hours 20 mins ago) <nimbu> tell grantg internal opera build just landed support for image-rendering :)
  147. # [01:25] <grantg> *So you
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  151. # [01:30] <andrewjbaker> grantg, ^^
  152. # [01:31] <grantg> nimbu: nice. :D
  153. # [01:31] <andrewjbaker> I'm not sure I could bring myself to work w/ 8-bit assembly language again, LOL.
  154. # [01:31] <grantg> "at least it wasn't a 6502"
  155. # [01:31] <andrewjbaker> LOL.
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  160. # [01:50] <gimi> #join jquery
  161. # [01:51] <gimi> join #jquery
  162. # [01:51] <zamarok> try a forward slash ;p
  163. # [01:52] <gimi> zamarok:thanks hihih
  164. # [01:52] <grantg> gimi /msg nickserc identify your-password
  165. # [01:52] <grantg> :P
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  254. # [04:27] <student> hi everyone, I am making a research about HTML 5 for my bachelor thesis and I wanted to have some information about the design principles from whatwg's point of view
  255. # [04:27] <student> so anyone can help me please ?
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  263. # [04:34] <student> Hi everyone, I am writing my thesis about HTML5, i need some information about the design principles and what I found is the design principles from the w3c's point of view
  264. # [04:34] <student> and i didn't find any from WHATWG's point of view
  265. # [04:35] <student> so are they somehow similar or they are completely different ?
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  279. # [05:24] <newz2000> Hey, I'm working on a mobile WEB app store called SquareTap. I'd love for you to check it out at http://squaretap.com on your mobile - also would love your feedback. It's still very beta at the moment though.
  280. # [05:24] * Parts: zamarok (~Zamarok@h96-60-240-24.prsstn.dsl.dynamic.tds.net)
  281. # [05:24] <newz2000> Also, if you think this is a cool idea, I could use your vote at http://squaretap.com/vote - I'm competing for a grant to help get things kicked off.
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  287. # [05:34] <Pomax> that's borderline spamming =)
  288. # [05:34] <newz2000> sorry, not trying to spam
  289. # [05:34] <newz2000> can we call it shameless self promotion?
  290. # [05:34] <Pomax> we can
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  303. # [06:18] <TheEmpath2> using canvas (EaselJS) for my tile engine... should I the DOM/CSS for the UI?
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  305. # [06:18] <chovy> websockets are cool, but where do I find data feeds to use besides twitter?
  306. # [06:22] <moshee> things like games could use it
  307. # [06:22] <chovy> yeah. i'm not good at that sort of stuff.
  308. # [06:22] <moshee> although you'd have to make the data yourself never mind
  309. # [06:22] <chovy> this thing was pretty sick
  310. # [06:22] <chovy> http://kaazing.me/
  311. # [06:23] <chovy> Yeah, i'm just looking for a json stream, twitter is the only one i've found so far.
  312. # [06:23] <chovy> would be nice to get realtime stock market data or news.
  313. # [06:23] <moshee> the public google stocks api returns xml
  314. # [06:23] <moshee> which kinda blows
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  319. # [06:26] <chovy> i wrote my websockets + nodejs backend.
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  323. # [06:26] <chovy> it's rather dumb if you ask me. twitter and all: http://chovy.dyndns.org:8080/
  324. # [06:27] <moshee> at least it looks nice
  325. # [06:27] <moshee> for what's on it
  326. # [06:27] <chovy> lol
  327. # [06:27] <chovy> thanks.
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  330. # [06:27] <chovy> i can't tell if you're kidding or not.
  331. # [06:27] <moshee> I like people who do font-family:sans-serif
  332. # [06:28] <moshee> because my "Helvetica" is broken and it reverts to arial :P
  333. # [06:28] <chovy> why bother with anything else?
  334. # [06:28] <chovy> heh
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  336. # [06:28] <chovy> i'd really like to get a data stream for news.
  337. # [06:28] <moshee> I don't know, people do font-family: Helvetica, "Helvetica Neue", Arial sans-serif
  338. # [06:28] <moshee> it's kinda ridiculous
  339. # [06:28] <chovy> yeah
  340. # [06:28] <moshee> forgot a comma in there but yeah
  341. # [06:29] <chovy> these days, if you dont use @font-face, then just use sans-serif;
  342. # [06:29] <chovy> my reset is simple too
  343. # [06:29] <chovy> html, html * { margin: 0; padding: 0; }
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  345. # [06:30] <chovy> why include a 20kb file when that covers 90% of the problems.
  346. # [06:30] <moshee> I do that too
  347. # [06:33] <chovy> moshee: does google's stock feed stream the xml?
  348. # [06:33] <moshee> no clue!
  349. # [06:33] <moshee> lemme dig up the url though
  350. # [06:33] <moshee> you can try it out
  351. # [06:33] <moshee> http://www.google.com/ig/api?stock=#{symbol}
  352. # [06:34] <moshee> the #{} is a ruby string interpolation so just get rid of that
  353. # [06:34] <chovy> no
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  355. # [06:35] <moshee> you're looking for a ws:// address or something? (I don't know much about websockets)
  356. # [06:35] <chovy> no.
  357. # [06:35] <moshee> didn't even know it was usable until now
  358. # [06:35] <chovy> i'll show you.
  359. # [06:35] <chovy> ws doesn't work in IE9
  360. # [06:36] <chovy> curl -d 'locations=-122.75,36.8,-121.75,37.8&track=baseball' http://stream.twitter.com/1/statuses/filter.json -uyourtwittername:asdf123
  361. # [06:36] <chovy> just change the last -u to your twitter name.
  362. # [06:36] <chovy> you'll see what I mean.
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  364. # [06:36] <chovy> it's a stream of json objects, one per line.
  365. # [06:36] <moshee> oh right twitter does stream, I know what you mean now
  366. # [06:36] <moshee> yeah sorry I have no idea what data streams exist
  367. # [06:37] <chovy> i'm able to process that in nodejs and server it up to a web socket on the client side. But so far, that's the only data feed I have.
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  369. # [06:40] <chovy> i think i'd have to poll rss feeds and convert them to json and write them out to a queue to really open up my options.
  370. # [06:40] <chovy> or xml, whatever.
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  373. # [06:43] <TheEmpath2> im interested in storing the code for my ui elements in a separate HTML file
  374. # [06:43] <TheEmpath2> then somehow "including" it on the main html file
  375. # [06:43] <TheEmpath2> any thoughts on doing that cleanly?
  376. # [06:44] <TheEmpath2> these ui elements will have html and, if possible, i would like to load them without having to append them to body
  377. # [06:45] <newz2000> TheEmpath2: jquery/dojo both have templates you can use. Server side programming languages can also do this. Those are the only ways I know.
  378. # [06:46] <TheEmpath2> phooey
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  382. # [06:56] <chovy> TheEmpath2: ajax?
  383. # [06:56] <chovy> $.get('/header', function(htm){ $("header").html( htm ); });
  384. # [06:57] <chovy> there's also jquery.template
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  409. # [08:22] <eip56> sup
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  418. # [08:47] <_dc> Anyone see any issues with text rendering inside of canvas on Safari 5.1 in Lion? Getting weird jagged text randomly
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  421. # [08:49] <estellevw> tantek: can i give you a nudge to get http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-ui/ editors draft pushed to latest version? Latest version hasn't been updated since 2004
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  499. # [13:04] <MatBoy> hi guys!
  500. # [13:05] <MatBoy> I'm going to use localStorage for a project and I wonder if I can debug the storage by printing what is stored ?
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  507. # [13:21] <nlogax> MatBoy: In WebKit's Web Inspector, you can see it under "Resources".
  508. # [13:21] <nlogax> I assume other, similar tools have something like that too.
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  510. # [13:22] <MatBoy> nlogax: ah ok... I'm devving for phonegap
  511. # [13:22] <MatBoy> localstorage is great btw
  512. # [13:38] <MatBoy> is this possible for testing ? localStorage.setItem("userId",1);
  513. # [13:39] <MatBoy> yes it does :)
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  540. # [15:13] <dravekx> the body can be used as a block element container in html5, correct?
  541. # [15:15] <Ms2ger> Not sure what you mean by that
  542. # [15:15] <dravekx> hmm...
  543. # [15:15] <dr0id> I don't know whether in html5 or not, but yeah you can use it
  544. # [15:15] <CoverSli1e> it should already be a block element
  545. # [15:16] <CoverSli1e> I think all UA's set it to block
  546. # [15:17] <dravekx> related to using body as a containing div: "Note that it is essential that the page is rendered in strict, rather than quirks, mode to be able to treat the body element as a block-level element; otherwise it is treated as the documentElement and all bets are off. "
  547. # [15:18] <dravekx> so Im wondering if html5 still treats is as a documentElement.
  548. # [15:18] <dravekx> it*
  549. # [15:18] <Ms2ger> Conforming HTML5 pages aren't in quirks mode, so, no
  550. # [15:19] <CoverSli1e> quirks mode = evil
  551. # [15:19] <dr0id> and evil = eval
  552. # [15:19] <Ms2ger> Also, innerHTML
  553. # [15:21] <CoverSli1e> innerHTML is generally evil
  554. # [15:21] <dravekx> yes. Ive read that some people consider using a wrapper, bad. html5doc says "You can use the <body> element as a “natural” wrapper for site "
  555. # [15:21] <CoverSli1e> but it'a far more performant than the DOM on most browsers
  556. # [15:22] <dravekx> CoverSli1e performant?
  557. # [15:22] <CoverSli1e> faster
  558. # [15:23] <CoverSli1e> as with anything, it's easy to screw up with it, so best not to use it unless you know how not to fuck up with it
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  596. # [17:11] <tantek> estellevw - yeah I keep getting close to getting the CSS3-UI editor's draft ready for another LCWD, but people keep finding new holes. The latest - it's been pointed out that nowhere in the web platform is hit-testing actually defined (seriously), and that CSS3-UI is actually a logical place to do it (since it's defining the 'pointer-events' property for HTML (beyond SVG etc.))
  597. # [17:11] <tantek> there's a few more minor issues I'm working on for CSS3-UI here: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Tantek-Mozilla-projects#CSS3_UI and here: http://wiki.csswg.org/spec/css3-ui#current-issues if you want to track remaining outstanding items before CSS3-UI goes back to LCWD.
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  605. # [17:21] <DJazz> can I store Files or Blobs with IndexedDB?
  606. # [17:23] <DJazz> because only Chrome support the FileSystem API
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  612. # [17:25] <CoverSlide> JavaScript doesn't support binary format
  613. # [17:26] <DJazz> XD LOL
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  615. # [17:27] <DJazz> CoverSlide: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/DOM/BlobBuilder
  616. # [17:27] <dravekx> but it supports anal sex.
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  618. # [17:28] <DJazz> CoverSlide: http://www.htmlfivewow.com
  619. # [17:28] <CoverSlide> sounds good if you don't want your app to work on IE or Opera
  620. # [17:28] <DJazz> Chrome, and maybe FF support
  621. # [17:29] <DJazz> Im making an offline editor and i want the user to be able to store more than 5 Mb
  622. # [17:36] <CoverSlide> Blob builder?
  623. # [17:36] <CoverSlide> Can he fix it?
  624. # [17:36] <CoverSlide> YES HE CAN!!
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  626. # [17:37] <DJazz> hm?
  627. # [17:38] <CoverSlide> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tiFWLINF3A
  628. # [17:38] <DJazz> :P
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  727. # [21:40] <sephr> can you write blobs in indexdbs?
  728. # [21:41] <sephr> eh it looks like it should work
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  741. # [22:21] <dravekx> does the border element not work on header?
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  779. # Session Close: Sun Aug 28 00:00:00 2011

The end :)