/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-09-01 / end

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# Session Start: Thu Sep 01 00:00:00 2011
# Session Ident: #html5
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# [00:03] <Cradam> cheilmann: ie5 using boss, noone uses ie5
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# [00:03] <cheilmann> Cradam careful with the truisms
# [00:04] <Cradam> i dont support lower than ie7
# [00:04] <Cradam> ie7 only if someone pulls me up about it
# [00:04] <cheilmann> yeah, you also don't build software for government, universities or large corporations.
# [00:04] <Cradam> nope
# [00:05] <Cradam> if i did i would charge a lot more
# [00:05] <newz2000> paul_irish: thanks for the link, that's awesome.
# [00:05] <andrewjbaker> But this is part of the problem.
# [00:06] <andrewjbaker> All the time we accommodate older browsers, we shoot ourselves in the foot.
# [00:06] <newz2000> we don't accommodate browsers, we accommodate people. Sadly, some people don't have the option to change.
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# [00:06] <andrewjbaker> If everyone turned round and said, "Yeah, we'll design this Web site for ya', but only from x, y, and z features." It'd be better for everyone.
# [00:07] <cheilmann> depends
# [00:07] <Cradam> i treat html5 like the language itself yet i hear confernces where they talk about a group of tech
# [00:07] * newz2000 doesn't mean to get too philosophical with this
# [00:07] <cheilmann> that is dangerous waters
# [00:07] <cheilmann> I remember NET1.0
# [00:07] <cheilmann> "works best on IE6 and falls back to other browsers"
# [00:07] <cheilmann> where firefox got the Netscape 4.0 code
# [00:08] <cheilmann> this post describes this really well
# [00:08] <cheilmann> www.onderhond.com/blog/work/graceful-degradation-pitfalls/
# [00:08] <tw2113> What's the topic? Graceful degradation?
# [00:08] <tw2113> Yup, cool
# [00:08] <cheilmann> yeah and how it bites you in the backside
# [00:09] <Cradam> i could do with getting an android phone
# [00:09] <newz2000> sadly, we're doing it again with mobile. Webkit is the new IE.
# [00:09] <newz2000> :-/
# [00:09] <cheilmann> I should probably email my "what I did today" - 11pm is long enough
# [00:09] <andrewjbaker> ^^
# [00:10] <tw2113> I'm more worried about functionality fallback than appearance fallback
# [00:10] <cheilmann> 214 emails from work today - slow day
# [00:10] <andrewjbaker> tw2113, agreed.
# [00:11] <Cradam> cheilmann: my clients, so far all use semi-modern browsers
# [00:11] <Cradam> :D
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# [00:11] <Cradam> had to get tenfourfox for one client who had a PPC
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# [00:12] <andrewjbaker> We recently did a site for a client, and actually added a link to where they could upgrade their browser with a warning that certain features might not work quite right unless they upgraded. Client seemed happy enough.
# [00:13] <Cradam> andrewjbaker: really?
# [00:13] <andrewjbaker> Yup.
# [00:13] <andrewjbaker> Really, really. It surprised me too. ;-)
# [00:13] <Cradam> what type of client?
# [00:13] <andrewjbaker> But they were happy enough.
# [00:13] <andrewjbaker> B2B.
# [00:13] <tw2113> I used jquery and canvas on a site...non canvas browsers can suck it
# [00:13] <Moo^_^> does it taint the canvas if I use images loaded from the same domain, different port?
# [00:14] <tw2113> Which was fine cause the canvas just altered image colors
# [00:14] <Cradam> taint?
# [00:14] <Moo^_^> Cradam: kick in cross domain image reading protectino
# [00:14] <Moo^_^> cannot access pixel data
# [00:14] <cheilmann> Actually a cool tip is to add a screenshot of the Canvas functionality as a fallback describing what it does
# [00:15] <cheilmann> the reason is that Facebook shows that when you post the link there :)
# [00:15] <newz2000> nice trick
# [00:15] <cheilmann> Moo it shouldn
# [00:15] <cheilmann> t
# [00:15] <cheilmann> that is one of my main annoyances, too
# [00:15] <cheilmann> made the video screenshot demo much less useful :(
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# [00:16] <tw2113> I can't wait for my next phone upgrade...I swear this original motorola droid has gotten slow
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# [00:16] <Moo^_^> cheilmann: what facebook does with canvas?
# [00:16] <tw2113> Early 2010 if not earlier...ancient in phone age
# [00:17] <Cradam> tw2113: my phone is 2006
# [00:17] <tw2113> Ok smartphone age :p
# [00:17] <tw2113> Battery is weak too
# [00:19] <Cradam> i hate how printers (the people not the machines) use 300dpi
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# [00:20] <Cradam> its really annoying when they give you a design
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# [00:20] <tw2113> Ooh opera mobile desktop emulator
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# [00:21] <cheilmann> Moo, when you post a link in Facebook it offers you all the images in the page as the preview. If you put a screenshot of the canvas effect inside the canvas element then you get that
# [00:21] <cheilmann> makes sense
# [00:21] <Cradam> tw2113: you might be interested in fennec for desktops
# [00:21] <cheilmann> Oh, you remind me, tomorrow is the moo.com summer party
# [00:21] <tw2113> Ooh firefox mobile emulator
# [00:21] <Moo^_^> cheilmann: well, I was not invited :P
# [00:21] <tw2113> Link?
# [00:21] <newz2000> tw2113: yes, it rocks. You can use firefly in opera full to fiddle with your styles like firebug
# [00:21] <cheilmann> many people in London will be drunk.
# [00:21] <newz2000> tw2113: that was about the opera mobile simulator
# [00:22] <tw2113> No surprise chris
# [00:22] <Cradam> newz2000: you mean dragonfly not firefly
# [00:22] <newz2000> dragonfly, right. :-)
# [00:22] <Moo^_^> tw2113: FYI Opera Mini emulator tricks http://opensourcehacker.com/2011/06/03/testing-localhost-site-in-opera-mini-ssh-tunnel-trick/
# [00:22] <nimbu> newz2000: hahaha hifi firefly
# [00:23] <nimbu> ♥ that show
# [00:23] <Cradam> css slideshow,hmm why
# [00:23] <newz2000> it's the best of firebug and dragonfly combined maybe
# [00:24] <nimbu> :)
# [00:24] <tw2113> Moo^_^: could you email me that? I'm currently on that phone I was whining about and its not liking me right now
# [00:24] <tw2113> Tw2113@gmail
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# [00:25] <Moo^_^> tw2113: done
# [00:25] <tw2113> Thanks
# [00:26] * newz2000 wonders if the twitter bootstrap form stuff will mesh nicely with html5boilerplate mobile
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# [00:27] <nimbu> newz2000: mostly will
# [00:27] <tw2113> This no net at home can bite me
# [00:27] <newz2000> ah, their source is beautiful
# [00:28] <Moo^_^> newz2000: the inner beauty one could say
# [00:28] <Cradam> Wednesday i hate that word it sounds like wendsday
# [00:28] <newz2000> Moo^_^: yeah. It's the sign of someone who takes great pride in their work.
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# [00:30] * Moo^_^ manages to complete async <canvas> unit test with JsTestDriver
# [00:31] * Moo^_^ thinks Crockford was wrong and Javascript still sucks
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# [00:33] <tw2113> Just his doesn't apparently
# [00:33] <cheilmann> OK I closed Spotify and the song still plays.
# [00:33] <cheilmann> Ah Adobe Air - pure magic
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# [00:34] <tw2113> Last.fm *gang sign*
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# [00:34] <Cradam> ok so i need about 3 clients if i dont want to eat if i want to go to html5live
# [00:35] <cheilmann> ah because that song played in YouTube
# [00:35] <cheilmann> I should go to bed
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# [00:36] <Cradam> cheilmann: will the conference be on youtube?
# [00:36] <cheilmann> ask kazaa
# [00:36] <cheilmann> I will do an audio recording of my talk for sure and put it on archive.org
# [00:36] <cheilmann> as always
# [00:37] <tw2113> You're pretty good with that
# [00:37] <tw2113> Vid.ly use too
# [00:38] <tw2113> I suggested vid.ly to someone on reddit a week or so ago
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# [00:39] <Cradam> actually it would be 2 if i didnt eat
# [00:39] <Cradam> that would be £300
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# [00:41] <tw2113> I'm waiting to afford one
# [00:42] <bradley> hey rotty3000
# [00:43] <Cradam> i have had most of the money for the first client thats why i would only be getting £300 from 2 clients
# [00:43] <bradley> I have a question that dates back before LR 4.0
# [00:43] <bradley> sorry wrong chat
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# [00:44] <Cradam> well i had most of the money from giving a guy a discount of £200 because he gave me a good lappie
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# [02:35] <paul_irish> http://www.slideshare.net/toddanglin/presentations
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# [02:45] <sephr> Why is there a speechchange event when there is already textInput { method == DOM_INPUT_METHOD_VOICE } ?
# [02:46] <sephr> the results thing makes more sense in the textInput event due to a user using a special eye tracker IME, for example
# [02:46] <sephr> so then sites can use the most appropriate match, not being limited to speech matches
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# [03:01] <danielfilho> probably not yet, sephr
# [03:02] <danielfilho> I'm not sure if only webkit supports it, or other engines also does.
# [03:02] <danielfilho> checkin' it :)
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# [05:07] <Gregor> (Sort of HTML5, sort of Firefox-specific, all nonsense!) When I put an <audio> tag in my page, on Firefox, it initially shows a loading spinner, even with preload="none" (which otherwise appears to work, as verified by httpd logs). Unfortunately, while the loading spinner is being displayed, the controls display is taller than it is at all other times. As a result, my page re-arranges itself a few seconds after loading.
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# [05:08] <Gregor> Anybody happen to know of a way to suppress this behavior?
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# [06:12] <devongovett> did chrome recently start updating CSS properties asynchronously? because I'm having cases where `div.style.background` != what I just set it to if the background image is changed in rapid succession...
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# [09:54] <RLa> which ide would you recommend for writing html(5) and javascript?
# [09:55] <RLa> and only for html and javascript, there is no need to write in other languages like php, ruby, etc.
# [09:55] <Moo^_^> RLa: if you have powerful computer use Aptana Studio
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# [09:57] <RLa> but if i do not have powerful computer?
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# [09:57] <RLa> also, aptana wants to use dark scheme for user interface which i am not very much used to
# [09:58] <RLa> well at least aptana 3 does
# [09:58] <RLa> i'm currently exploring alternatives for aptana
# [09:59] <Moo^_^> RLa: you can switch the theme in the settings
# [09:59] <Moo^_^> aptana 2 defaulted to black on white
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# [09:59] <Moo^_^> also new laptops are cheap nowadays :)
# [09:59] <Moo^_^> the best feature with Aptana is that it supports auto-completion for JS code very well
# [09:59] <Moo^_^> alone worth of other problems
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# [10:00] <RLa> i think it uses eclipse wtp under the hood, or at least javascript part of it
# [10:01] <RLa> it even recognizes javascript "modules"
# [10:02] <RLa> any idea if komodo edit is based on eclipse too?
# [10:03] <Moo^_^> I don't think so
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# [10:13] <RLa> komodo seems pretty nice
# [10:13] <RLa> except i'm not finding how to use macro features
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# [10:16] <RLa> one thing i do not get is why remote editing is such a big deal
# [10:16] <RLa> why would i want to edit files over ftp
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# [10:48] <Cradam> Moo^_^: why would you use an IDE for html and js?
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# [11:28] <ap_PP> can anybody tell me how to run an application on remote server in browser using html5 ??
# [11:29] <ap_PP> i have to run a single application
# [11:29] <ap_PP> anyone there ??
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# [11:43] <Cradam> ap_PP: its called server side scripting, usually php or somethign
# [11:43] <Cradam> *something
# [11:43] <ap_PP> no its like rdp in browser
# [11:44] <ap_PP> but instead of all appications it shd run only one
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# [12:12] <Cradam> i have until next saturday to find a place to live
# [12:14] <LOLFormat> after that ?
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# [12:20] <Cradam> i wont have a place to sleep
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# [12:24] <LOLFormat> Roads are fine
# [12:24] <Cradam> lol
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# [12:55] <Moo^_^> Cradam: because of autocompletion
# [12:55] <Moo^_^> integrated jslint
# [12:55] <Moo^_^> because it makes me much more productive
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# [12:56] <Cradam> ahh...dont need it, also my usb stick running my OS is pretty small so dont want to install unneeded stuff
# [12:57] <Cradam> anyone know an alternative to gedit/kate that doesnt need gnome/kde libs?
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# [12:57] <T-Co> Is it anyway possible to show image/x-jps in a webpage?
# [12:58] <T-Co> (I have LG P920)
# [12:59] <T-Co> It has 3d lcd, but I didn't have much luck trying to view jps with the browser
# [12:59] <T-Co> I guess it essentially is browser issue?
# [13:00] <Moo^_^> T-Co: well, the sad fact is that browsers support png, jpeg and gif :)
# [13:00] <Moo^_^> unless LG went and hacked shit of out Android browser
# [13:00] <Moo^_^> which they probably didn't
# [13:00] <Moo^_^> since they are not very premium Android manufacturer
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# [13:01] <T-Co> Moo^_^, Should've guessed
# [13:01] <Moo^_^> T-Co: if someone has told you "it works" you have been misinformed ;)
# [13:02] <Moo^_^> T-Co: what could be done is that you mark image/X-jps as forced attachment (was it disposition HTTP header)
# [13:02] <Moo^_^> and the phone downloads
# [13:02] <Moo^_^> and then launches Gallery
# [13:02] <T-Co> Moo^_^, Yeah, the thin is that if you have any 3rd party file manager, it propably won't even open primarily with the gallery app :)
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# [13:04] <T-Co> Moo^_^, http://www.intech-bb.com/watch-3d-stereoscopic-videos-on-android-webgl-html5-firefox-for-galaxy-s/
# [13:05] <Moo^_^> T-Co: now you only need ask the users to download Firefox ;)
# [13:05] <T-Co> Moo^_^, Yeah, tough luck
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# [13:07] <Moo^_^> T-Co: with enough money you can make a custom firefox app (e.g. embedded gecko)
# [13:07] <Moo^_^> but it would be as easier just to build native app for viewing x-jps
# [13:08] <Cradam> Moo^_^: how big is your IDE?
# [13:09] <Moo^_^> Cradam: 206 M
# [13:10] <Cradam> whereas my text editor with all the deps is 25M
# [13:10] <Cradam> gedit btw
# [13:10] <Moo^_^> Cradam: but I can afford 4 GB of RAM on my computer >_>
# [13:10] <Cradam> i have 3GB
# [13:11] <Cradam> i am just using linux off of my usb
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# [13:11] <Cradam> i might format my HDD and use it for data
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# [13:12] <Cradam> yes, yes i shall
# [13:13] <T-Co> Moo^_^, Yeah, I just confirmed my suspicions that the only way currently to take advantage of the 3d capabilities is through an application
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# [13:18] <Cradam> Moo^_^: your IDE is aptana isnt it?
# [13:18] <Moo^_^> yes - as stated above :)
# [13:19] <Cradam> do they provide a working tar?
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# [13:20] <Moo^_^> Cradam: yes they do
# [13:20] <Moo^_^> I don't see why they would bother to provide broken tar :)
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# [13:22] <Cradam> im saying like firefox does, some places provide a tar that still needs deps
# [13:22] <Moo^_^> Cradam: Aptana is self-contained
# [13:22] <Moo^_^> you just need a working Java run-time
# [13:23] <Moo^_^> just extract on the desktop folder and click the launcher
# [13:23] <Cradam> why do all these IDEs use java
# [13:23] <Moo^_^> Cradam: because Java is a good programming language to build GUI software?
# [13:23] <Cradam> ahh
# [13:23] <Moo^_^> or was
# [13:23] <Moo^_^> not sure about the current situation
# [13:24] <Moo^_^> C# is better nowadays IMHO
# [13:24] <Cradam> c# is mainly for windows though
# [13:25] <Moo^_^> not any longer
# [13:25] <Cradam> i tried to make a hello world app yesterday in java, got stuck on the manifest part
# [13:25] <Moo^_^> it is gaining traction on mobile world too
# [13:25] <Moo^_^> due to good job of Ximian
# [13:25] <Moo^_^> and OSX
# [13:25] <Moo^_^> basically C# provides sane language for native OSX obj-c bindings :P
# [13:25] <Cradam> well java is android, i like android
# [13:26] <Cradam> *is on
# [13:26] <Moo^_^> Cradam: good news then http://android.xamarin.com/Welcome
# [13:26] <Cradam> i dont actually have an android yet though
# [13:26] <Cradam> used my mates in the past and i liked it
# [13:27] <Cradam> is that c# on droid?
# [13:27] <Moo^_^> yes
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# [13:27] <Moo^_^> Cradam: also on iOS
# [13:27] <Moo^_^> and OSX
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# [13:27] <Moo^_^> (and Windows and Linux but that goes without saying)
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# [13:28] <Cradam> why is mono charging
# [13:28] <Moo^_^> Cradam: because they need to pay salary of the developers
# [13:28] <Moo^_^> and people need to buy food to eat to survive
# [13:29] <Cradam> well their other stuff is free
# [13:29] <Moo^_^> alternative they could just give the developers spears and go to hunting in savannah
# [13:29] <Moo^_^> Cradam: good for you then
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# [13:29] <Cradam> btw i also like to not spend my little amount of money
# [13:29] <Cradam> i have £10 in the bank
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# [13:30] <Moo^_^> then it probably is not your cup of tee. they did student discounts / free licences in some point.
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# [13:35] <Cradam> i really need to shut down my quassel core some time, downloading 8K messages is becoming a tangible amount of time
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# [13:53] <Moo^_^> Cradam: you can set "dynamic buffers" etc. settings
# [13:54] <Moo^_^> so it will download less messages per channel
# [13:54] <Cradam> you use quassel?
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# [13:56] <Cradam> just switched it to only download unread messages
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# [14:17] <Cradam> Moo^_^: just started up aptana, i cant see anything that allows me to connect to my server
# [14:17] <Moo^_^> Cradam: I don't connect to server
# [14:17] <Moo^_^> I run server on my own computer
# [14:17] <Moo^_^> and edit files locally
# [14:17] <Moo^_^> faster
# [14:18] <Moo^_^> connec to server is for poor Windows folks way of doing things
# [14:19] <Moo^_^> however aptana should have a deployment tool
# [14:19] <Moo^_^> I just never have used it
# [14:19] <Moo^_^> Cradam: so I cannot help
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# [14:21] <Cradam> Moo^_^: no it isnt for poor windows folk
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# [14:21] <Cradam> its how i like to work
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# [14:21] <Moo^_^> I deploy to server from the version control only
# [14:21] <Moo^_^> that's the only way to make sure all code is versioned
# [14:21] <Moo^_^> everything else is broken model :)
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# [14:23] <Cradam> anyone know a way to get win7 fast?
# [14:24] <Cradam> oh i dont care about versioning
# [14:24] <Trisox> like drive to the store?
# [14:24] <Cradam> Trisox: if you dont have a car
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# [14:24] <Trisox> bike to the store...
# [14:24] <Moo^_^> bus
# [14:24] <Moo^_^> or metro
# [14:24] <Trisox> by foot
# [14:24] <Moo^_^> horseback riding
# [14:25] <Cradam> im being paid to install it so i need a copy
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# [14:25] <Trisox> your not talking about illegal activities are you :<
# [14:25] <Cradam> ehh what
# [14:25] <Ms2ger> Horse riding?
# [14:25] <Cradam> whats a horse?
# [14:26] <Trisox> preferably sea horses
# [14:26] <Moo^_^> I heard ponies are popular in US
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# [14:28] <Cradam> Moo^_^: where are you from?
# [14:29] <Trisox> went a cowboy to the hairdresser gone ponie
# [14:29] <Trisox> ....
# [14:31] <mekwall> I'm on a horse.
# [14:32] <Trisox> :D
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# [15:25] <ezflashback> hi everyone
# [15:25] <ezflashback> i want to edit the css of a modul on my page
# [15:25] <ezflashback> i replaced the widget.js and edited the css paths inside
# [15:25] <ezflashback> when i use the my custom widget.js the links escape
# [15:25] <ezflashback> http://www.be-broke.com/ ... at the bottom of the page ... the twitter modul
# [15:25] <ezflashback> do you have any idea, whats wrong in my customized widget.js?
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# [15:39] <ezflashback> can anyone help me please?
# [15:40] <Moo^_^> ezflashback: I fail to see how your question is related to html5?
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# [15:40] <Moo^_^> ezflashback: maybe you should try some other forum
# [15:40] <Moo^_^> ezflashback: I suggest stackoverflow.com :)
# [15:42] <ezflashback> lol
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# [15:42] <ezflashback> nobody want to help me
# [15:42] <ezflashback> thats why i ask anyone who can help me
# [15:43] <Cradam> ezflashback: nobody wants you
# [15:43] <Cradam> :p
# [15:46] <ezflashback> :(
# [15:46] <ezflashback> pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease
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# [15:47] <Cradam> ezflashback: try in #css #javascript or #web
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# [15:47] <Trisox> iee jquery mootools everyting on there..
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# [15:48] <Moo^_^> ezflashback: ask questions related to the channel topic
# [15:48] <Moo^_^> ezflashback: I don't ask you how to fix my car :)
# [15:48] <Trisox> well Moo^_^ buy gas
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# [15:48] <Trisox> and some tires ;) for starters
# [15:48] <Moo^_^> Trisox: diesel
# [15:48] <Moo^_^> this is EU
# [15:49] <Trisox> gas = gas diesel and bezine
# [15:49] <Trisox> maar goe
# [15:49] <Moo^_^> ahhah
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# [16:43] <newz2000> I did some work last night bringing over some of the nice styles of bootstrap to boilerplate mobile.
# [16:44] <newz2000> Turned out not to be hard. It might make a nice add-on for people, so I'll share what I have later on today.
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# [16:45] <newz2000> A lot of bootstrap isn't needed, it deals with grid layouts and that floating menu bar, which I can't see being too relevant on mobile.
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# [19:20] <paul_irish> http://trac.webkit.org/changeset/94089
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# [19:47] <Harph> hey there, I'm working with websockets and I figure out that I don't receive the Sec-WebSocket-Key1 and Sec-WebSocket-Key2 in the request header when I use firefox 6... this works fine on chrome and safari... any ideas about the problem?
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# [20:08] <sgrover> Canvas help for a non-graphic programmer? Creating an image that is larger than my screen size. I want to support zoom and window "slide" (drag window to move parts into view). Do I need to create a view port for this?
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# [20:09] <sgrover> And if so, any helpful links that define the details of creating a viewport? I've only found references to gaming engines so far...
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# [20:58] <newz2000> Do you know how many times I've thought a web page would be so much more awesome with a velociraptor? http://www.zurb.com/playground/jquery-raptorize?timed_launch=true
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# [21:01] <paul_irish> i just posted this or whatever http://paulirish.com/2011/tiered-adaptive-front-end-experiences/
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# [21:04] <newz2000> paul_irish: this fits in nicely with the conversation yesterday about not starting with Photoshop
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# [21:07] <danielfilho> paul_irish: I think you could link this on your post: http://dowebsitesneedtolookexactlythesameineverybrowser.com/
# [21:07] <danielfilho> :D
# [21:07] <taylorRichie> paul_irish: Great entry! Kudos
# [21:07] <newz2000> paul_irish: one thing that feels left out is when front end devs have to jump through incredibly hoops to make older browsers show the same content that newer browsers can get.
# [21:07] <danielfilho> indeed, great entry. just miss the link :D
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# [21:19] <paul_irish> danielfilho: i could, but it seemed too obvious. :p
# [21:19] <paul_irish> i'd rather be the justification for that post
# [21:20] <paul_irish> than expect one word to convince for me.
# [21:20] <paul_irish> s/that post/that site
# [21:20] <danielfilho> yup, just sayin' :P
# [21:21] <danielfilho> 'external article' hahaha
# [21:21] <sephr> Ms2ger: wtf why did you define DOMParser in a way that every non-pure XML MIME type is invalid?
# [21:21] <Ms2ger> Hmm?
# [21:21] <sephr> one sec
# [21:22] <sephr> Ms2ger: http://html5.org/specs/dom-parsing.html If contentType isn't text/xml, application/xml or application/xhtml+xml, raise a NOT_SUPPORTED_ERR exception and abort these steps.
# [21:22] <sephr> those aren't the only XML types
# [21:23] <sephr> also, text/html is easy to implement and should be explicitly supported in the spec (for example, I can implement it in ~20 lines https://gist.github.com/1129031)
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# [21:25] <sephr> Ms2ger: would you mind updating the spec to allow any +xml mime type and also text/html, with my https://gist.github.com/1129031 algorithm (I'll help you convert it to english) for text/html?
# [21:26] <Ms2ger> I would mind adding text/html, as no browser implements that
# [21:26] <sephr> most of the algorithm would be a copy and paste of the spec of document.implementation.createHTMLDocument
# [21:26] <sephr> Ms2ger: well then it could be optional
# [21:26] <Ms2ger> No
# [21:27] <sephr> what if there is a simple polyfill that adds support for it?
# [21:27] <sephr> DOMParser isn't called XMLParser
# [21:27] <sephr> it makes sense to allow any DOM type
# [21:27] <Ms2ger> This whole interface doesn't make a lot of sense
# [21:28] <Ms2ger> I'm speccing what's required for web compat, and we can look at adding new, well-designed features in the need arises
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# [21:30] <sephr> Ms2ger: no browsers supports <link type=icon sizes>, and ignore that part of the spec and actually support apple's proprietary version that's limited to a 1:1 aspect ratio, so by that reasoning shouldn't you remove that too?
# [21:30] <sephr> s/and/and they/
# [21:30] <Ms2ger> Not my spec
# [21:30] <sephr> I'm just trying to argue that it's an obvious feature
# [21:30] <sephr> that people can already patch in
# [21:31] <Ms2ger> I'm trying to argue that adding stuff to DOMParser is a horrible API
# [21:31] <Ms2ger> And if we want to add new features, we can do better than that
# [21:31] <sephr> ok I agree
# [21:31] <sephr> it doesn't even support Blobs :P
# [21:32] <sephr> Ms2ger: though you should at least fix the wording of the content type step to allow "any XML-based MIME type"
# [21:32] <Ms2ger> Why?
# [21:32] <Ms2ger> Only webkit supports that
# [21:32] <sephr> webkit doesn't support DOMParser.parse(Blob)
# [21:32] <sephr> what do you mean?
# [21:33] <Ms2ger> Non-webkit browsers only support these three mime types
# [21:33] <sephr> oh well that's more of a horrible bug
# [21:33] <sephr> nobody even tries to parse foo/bar+xml
# [21:34] <sephr> so it won't break anything if you fix the bug
# [21:34] <sephr> nobody will try to parse +xml until the bug is fixed anyways
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# [22:13] <Moo^_^> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7274162/html5-canvas-todataurl-breaking-ssl-connection
# [22:14] <Moo^_^> I am interested in knowing also
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# [23:07] <nlogax> how do i get rid of the default (+) cursor when dragging stuff? other than e.dataTransfer.dropEffect = "none"
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# [23:08] <nlogax> (it defaults to a green (+) thingie on os x, i want to use the default cursor as the err... default)
# [23:08] <nlogax> i would have guessed `cursor: default` but no
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# [23:12] <Cradam> nlogax: the browser doesnt control that action
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# [23:13] <nlogax> Cradam: well, it can
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# [23:13] <nlogax> and since it doesn't default to anything nice/consistent with other apps, i'd like to
# [23:14] <Cradam> #css
# [23:14] <nlogax> d&d is css now?
# [23:14] <MichaelBehan> dungeons and dragons?
# [23:14] <Cradam> lol
# [23:14] <CoverSlide> I think it's d20
# [23:14] <nlogax> yeah, that
# [23:14] <Cradam> d20?
# [23:15] <CoverSlide> 20-sided die
# [23:15] <CoverSlide> instead of 3 6-sided die
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# [23:15] <CoverSlide> in previous versions
# [23:15] <Cradam> ahh what has that got to do with #css
# [23:15] <CoverSlide> I don't know, ask him
# [23:15] <nlogax> about as much as drag&drop
# [23:16] <Cradam> oh im just saying you can get more info in the cursor options in there
# [23:16] <Cradam> *on
# [23:16] <nlogax> well that's the thing, cursor doesn't do anything in this case
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# [23:16] <nlogax> so i'm asking here, where people might be using this html5 stuff :)
# [23:17] <daleharvey> paul_irish: whats http://twitter.com/#!/maboa/status/109219456294723584 about?
# [23:17] <socialhapy> ★ Tweet from html5: RT @rwaldron: I just stood up for the first time in hours, good news though: jQuery 1.7 looks like it will support HTML5. thanks @paul_i ... ★ http://bit.ly/nL3yWp
# [23:17] <paul_irish> html5 elems
# [23:17] <paul_irish> so if you ajax in <nav>/<article> etc... it will work
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# [23:18] <daleharvey> the ie shim?
# [23:19] <paul_irish> well.. more specifically its essentially innerShiv baked in
# [23:19] <paul_irish> the html5shiv is still required, jquery wont tackle that.
# [23:20] <daleharvey> ah k, cool cheers
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# [23:20] <daleharvey> someone told me "jquery 1.7 is going to support html5" and pointed to that tweet
# [23:20] <paul_irish> ya
# [23:20] <paul_irish> whatever that would mean....
# [23:21] <daleharvey> heh yeh
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# Session Close: Fri Sep 02 00:00:00 2011

The end :)