/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-09-06 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Sep 06 10:59:02 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
  3. # [10:59] * Now talking in #html5
  4. # [10:59] * Topic is 'Ask any question about HTML5 & Friends || HTML5 Spec for Developers: http://developers.whatwg.org || Also: http://html5rocks.com http://diveintohtml5.org http://mzl.la/9giLwR || Channel logs: http://j.mp/cG7UDa'
  5. # [10:59] * Set by marienz!~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz on Wed Aug 10 22:18:05
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  11. # [11:03] <solofight> people can i get this diveinto html5 html pages as pdf copy ? so that i can carry and read when i travel ?
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  13. # [11:05] <solofight> oh there is a hardcopy sold
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  66. # [13:12] <WRAz> heyo, can someone verify behavior for me? Getting weird quirks using an iframe. ( http://whenraptorsattack.github.com/Jixel/examples/TheWayHome/index.html ) <- does that load
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  239. # [18:03] <paul_irish> benv: this seems like a good topic for your book http://webmasters.stackexchange.com/questions/19234/how-do-google-1-widgets-break-out-of-their-iframe#7313430
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  253. # [18:24] <benv> hmm yep
  254. # [18:24] <benv> it is
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  259. # [18:32] <BrianBlakely> Weirdest shit ever: http://functionsource.com/post/want-some-of-that-ascii-css-layout-again-foxy
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  281. # [18:57] <Pomax> hm. can canvas do <img> style hotspots for links?
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  284. # [19:00] <Pomax> looking at http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/105 which seems to suggest it was rejected, but it looks like another hickson "I can only see potential problems, never mind that a simple corrolary that says ... would make it perfectly workable"
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  290. # [19:06] <BrianBlakely> Pomax: I think you hit it right on the head (though that infliction isn't exclusive to Hix)
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  292. # [19:07] <Pomax> probably not, but "running the show", most of my hatred goes towards him
  293. # [19:08] <Pomax> he shoots down ideas so fast it makes you wonder if he even reads them.
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  311. # [19:26] <BrianBlakely> Pomax: Honestly, I think spec should be accepted by popular vote. Maybe an up/down system. Spec that meets certain criteria from the hoi polloi should get automatic acceptance and volunteers for drafting.
  312. # [19:27] <BrianBlakely> Of course, there are some who would tell you that a democratic system would *never* work.
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  314. # [19:28] <Pomax> which is why you don't make it democratic.
  315. # [19:28] <Pomax> can it be done? then allow it.
  316. # [19:28] <Pomax> don't want to use it? don't use it. it's still there.
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  318. # [19:29] <Pomax> don't want to implement it? don't implement it. you'll end up on a quirksmode compatibility list. nothing lost.
  319. # [19:29] <Pomax> (unless your name is IE)
  320. # [19:29] <franksalim> you could make a browser based on popular opinion. i'll bring the popcorn
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  322. # [19:29] <Pomax> can't be implemented? that's the only real reason to immediately shoot down the request.
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  326. # [19:31] <Pomax> I think my best example of ridiculousness was the request for an elliptical arc command for canvas2d. Hickson's reply was "no. you can use bezier curves to approximate it". Which would make sense, if the circular arc command wasn't just a specific instance of elliptical arcs, bezier curves were quick, and bezier curves could procude ellipses. which they can't.
  327. # [19:31] <Pomax> plus the function signature for elliptical arc wouldn't even overlap with the existing api
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  336. # [19:37] <BrianBlakely> Pomax: I've seen CSS pen-holders shoot down a request because there are hacks which can kind of get close to that functionality. It's balls
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  341. # [19:37] <BrianBlakely> It's a stupid system we have right now
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  343. # [19:38] <BrianBlakely> Relying on a few people to steer technology which belongs to everyone
  344. # [19:39] <Pomax> sadly.
  345. # [19:40] <Pomax> we'll just have to file request with the major browser makers. I can live with -moz-map: #....; and -webkit-map: #...;
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  347. # [19:41] <Pomax> "it's not in the spec!" - "we didn't make browsers based on what's in the spec. we made them based on what we wanted, and the web plays catchup"
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  359. # [20:01] <x1337807x> Quick one: Moving from XHTML to HTML5 for our app. We're in quirks mode for XHTML due to some unresolved technical debt and will still be for HTML5, although our cleanup will be easier. Should we expect an avalanche of bugs?
  360. # [20:01] <amerine> x1337807x: It will break the tubes man.
  361. # [20:04] <Pomax> short answer: yes
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  363. # [20:04] <Pomax> HTML5 has no modes. there's only one doctype - "html".
  364. # [20:05] <Pomax> (which, sadly, was formalised before someone was wise enough to add the version indicator)
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  366. # [20:06] <monteslu> lack of version denotes the version :)
  367. # [20:07] <amerine> lulz
  368. # [20:07] <amerine> x1337807x: I wouldn't expect many bugs in a webkit browser by just changing the doctype. I can't speak for IE.
  369. # [20:08] <monteslu> I can. It breaks
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  371. # [20:08] <amerine> monteslu: I'd have to disagree.
  372. # [20:08] <amerine> monteslu: Kidding
  373. # [20:08] <monteslu> really, I've had css act funny, like divs not stretching out based on doctype
  374. # [20:08] <monteslu> hah, ok
  375. # [20:09] <amerine> monteslu: I really have no clue about IE and HTML5. I've had a luxurious experience of not giving a crap about it for a few years.
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  384. # [20:17] <monteslu> amerine, I still consider its usage
  385. # [20:17] <monteslu> that's why I like chrome frame
  386. # [20:18] <monteslu> but I also don't give a crap about its renderer anymore :)
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  433. # [21:40] <BrianBlakely> "We've got to do all this bullshit because the app was originally made for IE6 only." The answer is Chrome Frame, that's it. Official HTML5 policy.
  434. # [21:41] <monteslu> BrianBlakely++
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  472. # [22:24] <jimi_hendrix> canvas question: i want to draw an image to a canvas, but i also want to tint the image (it is all black and white, I want to change the black to red). is this practical?
  473. # [22:27] <Jon47> jimi_hendrix it's certainly possible, whether it's practical or not .. can't say ;)
  474. # [22:27] <Pomax> if it's a genuine b/w image, and you want black to white, place the image, then run through the pixel array and set all R channels to 255.
  475. # [22:27] <Pomax> should be a pretty quick job.
  476. # [22:28] <Pomax> if you want to place the image on top of other things, you will probably want to use a second canvas as buffer.
  477. # [22:28] <jimi_hendrix> you can access the pixel data?
  478. # [22:28] <Jon47> indeed
  479. # [22:28] <BrianBlakely> jimi_hendrix: You can
  480. # [22:28] <Pomax> ctx = canvas.getContext("2d"); ctx.imageData.data
  481. # [22:29] <Pomax> pixels are stored in RGBA order, so the data array has a length 4*width*height, and data[0] is R, data[1] is G, etc.
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  483. # [22:30] <jimi_hendrix> well i dont want the whole canvas to be red. i plan on drawing a few images to the canvas, and only one of them will be red at a time.
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  486. # [22:30] <jimi_hendrix> so can i access an individual image's pixel data?
  487. # [22:30] <Pomax> simply do a for(i=0,end=data.length; i<end; i+=4) { data[i] = 255; } and black becomes red
  488. # [22:30] <Pomax> in that case I'd say use a second canvas as offscreen buffer.
  489. # [22:31] <Pomax> the reason I'm saying to simply set the R channel to red is that for a black and white image, R is already 255 for white pixels.
  490. # [22:32] <Pomax> so it won't affect those. black, however, is [0,0,0,255], so setting R to 255 makes it [255,0,0,255] which is primary red.
  491. # [22:32] <jimi_hendrix> right
  492. # [22:35] <Pomax> alternatively, there's the compositing system
  493. # [22:35] <Pomax> but that's not really for color control
  494. # [22:35] <Pomax> rather than tinting, what you want is to actually modify the colors in the image you're placing.
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  503. # [22:44] <BrianBlakely> Pomax: Why would you do an offscreen buffer, pray tell? To avoid a flash when the image compositing takes effect, or purely for performance?
  504. # [22:45] <BrianBlakely> Or both?
  505. # [22:45] <Pomax> buffer to turn black and white into red and white
  506. # [22:45] <Pomax> then copy that over to the on-page canvas
  507. # [22:46] <BrianBlakely> Pomax: I understand, but for what purpose when you could do the processing on the "main" canvas?
  508. # [22:46] <BrianBlakely> Just wondering the specifics
  509. # [22:46] <Pomax> clean iteration
  510. # [22:46] <Pomax> you can make the buffer exactly the size of the image to be copied,
  511. # [22:47] <Pomax> rather than writing potentially buggy code by running through your full on-screen canvas and coloring between certain array index boundaries
  512. # [22:48] <Pomax> basically straight iternation >> coordinate-to-index transform using a double for loop iteration. It's nicer to read, and typically faster, unless you're working with really small images.
  513. # [22:49] <Pomax> in which case "nicer" is a good enough argument because performance is irrelevant
  514. # [22:49] <BrianBlakely> Pomax: Ah, handy to know, thank you
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  517. # [22:50] <BrianBlakely> http://jsfiddle.net/ - "debug on mobile" …that is new!
  518. # [22:50] <Pomax> jsfiddle is such a lovely thing
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  526. # [23:06] <BrianBlakely> Oh graphic designer, so proud: "We didn't use any round corners, because we know CSS doesn't support them." — swing and a miss...
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  529. # [23:12] <Pomax> does it continue with "but just make sure the placement is pixel perfect, because we emulated them with a background image"?
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  535. # [23:22] <BrianBlakely> Pomax: Everything will be done with CSS; in this case, they intentionally flatlined the design and call it "conscientious" instead of progressively enhancing it.
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  537. # [23:22] <BrianBlakely> If you're actually knowledgeable, all it takes is a few annotations "Hard corners acceptable here", "hard corners UNACCEPTABLE here", etc...
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  549. # [23:49] <meowsus> How should i write my self-closing tags in HTML5. Meta tags? Do they need a /> at the end? I've seen examples both ways
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  551. # [23:51] <newz2000> meowsus: as I understand it, you get to choose whichever makes you happier. I've used both ways without prob.
  552. # [23:51] <Pomax> html is not xml. content-empty tags do not need closing, and are sometimes forbiddne.
  553. # [23:52] <meowsus> Pomax, that's what i thought.
  554. # [23:52] <meowsus> Just wanted to make sure, thanks all!
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  558. # [23:54] <Pomax> http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/syntax.html#syntax-tag-omission if you want to get "official"
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  562. # [23:58] <newz2000> that's a fascinating bit of docs there.
  563. # [23:58] * newz2000 had no idea you could omit start tags
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  565. # [23:59] <Pomax> only some =)
  566. # Session Close: Wed Sep 07 00:00:00 2011

The end :)