/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-09-08 / end

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  9. # [00:11] <dilvie> is setting an audio element's currentTime supposed to trigger play?
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  68. # [00:48] <Laurent4> Hi guys :)
  69. # [00:49] <Laurent4> I'm wondering about the application cache and particularly the NETWORK section
  70. # [00:49] <Laurent4> I don't see the purpose of it
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  72. # [00:50] <Laurent4> Apparently if you put a resource in the NETWORK section, it's not going in the application cache
  73. # [00:50] <Laurent4> but at the same time if you don't want that resource to be cached, you just don't list it at all, right?
  74. # [00:51] <Lebannen> if items aren't listed at all, and you're not using a network wildcard, I believe the browser doesn't have to go and fetch them even if it's online...
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  80. # [00:53] <Laurent4> so does it act like a whitelist of resources you can access or not?
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  92. # [01:03] <Lebannen> Laurent4: I believe that's the intention, yes
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  95. # [01:07] <chrislorenz> Does adding/removing a class not work with firefox 6 and css3 transitions? It will work in FF if I manually change the width on the class itself but not adding or removing the class.
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  97. # [01:12] <cheilmann> it should
  98. # [01:12] <divya> ?paste @ chrislorenz
  99. # [01:12] <bot-t> chrislorenz, Please paste your code at http://jsfiddle.net/ [preferred], http://paste.pocoo.org/+js, http://jsbin.com/ or http://fixee.org/
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  114. # [01:22] <chrislorenz> divya http://jsfiddle.net/ruHFw/ animations occur on chrome and safari but not mozilla. Thanks for the help :)
  115. # [01:22] <chrislorenz> if I change the width on the class itself in firebug it will perform the animation. Just doesn't like swapping classes
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  120. # [01:28] <divya> chrislorenz: http://jsfiddle.net/ruHFw/3/ width needs to be initialized to 0
  121. # [01:28] <divya> cant be auto
  122. # [01:28] <chrislorenz> ah
  123. # [01:28] <chrislorenz> that would explain it then
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  125. # [01:29] <chrislorenz> thanks
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  127. # [01:30] <irae_> this is weird behavior on FF part… it should act against the computed value, no?
  128. # [01:32] <divya> no as per spec it needs to be 0
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  134. # [01:32] <irae_> humm
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  196. # [03:25] <paul_irish> http://src.chromium.org/viewvc/chrome?view=rev&revision=100000 \o/
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  199. # [03:27] <ryanseddon> does that mean tablet support for chrome OS?
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  209. # [03:52] <paul_irish> iunno what it means
  210. # [03:52] <paul_irish> i just know its 100,000
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  213. # [04:04] <ryanseddon> lol, i saw virtual keyboard in the code probably means nothing :(
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  311. # [07:54] <ryanseddon> man impact.js is such a good engine, always has such high quality games coming out that use it http://landofpixels.com/games/castlecapers/game.html
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  314. # [08:11] <axion> almost considering purchasing it
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  433. # [12:06] <monteslu> So anyone know if MS is leaning towards web audio api, audio data api, or making a 3rd one?
  434. # [12:07] <phrearch_> hi
  435. # [12:07] <Ms2ger> What makes you think they realized people are working on such a thing? :)
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  437. # [12:07] <phrearch_> anyone working with hybi-10 websockets yet?
  438. # [12:08] <phrearch_> it seems it supports binary framing. i was wondering if that can be send the same way as regular data
  439. # [12:08] <phrearch_> on the clientside
  440. # [12:08] <monteslu> Ms2ger, good point.
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  442. # [12:09] <monteslu> who needs low latency audio
  443. # [12:09] <phrearch_> webaudio already landed in chromium a while ago
  444. # [12:09] <phrearch_> dont really care abou ie
  445. # [12:09] <monteslu> game don't need PEW PEW, they just need streaming music for fishbowl demos :)
  446. # [12:09] <phrearch_> :)
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  448. # [12:10] <phrearch_> cant wait until webrtc lands in chromium :/
  449. # [12:10] <monteslu> I've been using soundmanager2, but it looks like its HTML5 implementation is the audio tag, not webaudio
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  451. # [12:13] <monteslu> is webrtc different than NaCl ?
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  453. # [12:17] <phrearch_> ehm, i think nacl is used to allow you to write custom c++ applications to work within the browser, while webrtc is focussed on enabling browser api's for connectionpeer/device kinda things
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  455. # [12:17] <phrearch_> something like sony ericsson's current p2p webcam implementation
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  459. # [12:20] <phrearch_> omg, im such an horrible designer
  460. # [12:21] <phrearch_> isnt there somewhere a user interface design website for dummies? :)
  461. # [12:21] <phrearch_> all designs usually have a huge header, which doesnt make sense to me
  462. # [12:21] <phrearch_> but having no header feels kinda empty
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  467. # [12:35] <phrearch_> like almost all menus are the same
  468. # [12:35] <phrearch_> http://ginva.com/2011/04/108-free-css-menu-designs/
  469. # [12:35] <phrearch_> dropdown suckerfish blaa
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  474. #
  475. # Session Start: Thu Sep 08 13:13:29 2011
  476. # Session Ident: #html5
  477. # [13:13] * Now talking in #html5
  478. # [13:13] * Topic is 'Ask any question about HTML5 & Friends || HTML5 Spec for Developers: http://developers.whatwg.org || Also: http://html5rocks.com http://diveintohtml5.org http://mzl.la/9giLwR || Channel logs: http://j.mp/cG7UDa'
  479. # [13:13] * Set by marienz!~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz on Wed Aug 10 22:18:05
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  496. # [13:46] <advocatusdiaboli> tom345: Adobe is still stuck in HTML 2
  497. # [13:46] <advocatusdiaboli> How can I "tidy" HTML5?
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  500. # [13:49] <advocatusdiaboli> tidy looks deprecated as of HTML4.01/XHTML 1
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  522. # [14:12] <Moo^_^> advocatusdiaboli: a lot of software cannot handle HTML5 mark-up yet
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  534. # [14:29] <phrearch_> hm, whats generally the best place to stuff a messenger on a site?
  535. # [14:29] <phrearch_> in a two column layout that is
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  538. # [14:32] <Moo^_^> phrearch_: something akin facebook chat window?
  539. # [14:32] <Moo^_^> (the small one)
  540. # [14:33] <Jon47> phreach_ I don't think there's a *best* place necessarily, but for notifications I personally like how google+ does it (the little counter at the right of the top bar)
  541. # [14:34] <phrearch_> Moo^_^: you mean the one at the bottom-right?
  542. # [14:34] <phrearch_> Jon47: checking that one
  543. # [14:35] <phrearch_> hm how does that look like?
  544. # [14:35] <phrearch_> subscription is closed
  545. # [14:36] <Jon47> phreach it's just a little gray box with a 0 in it
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  547. # [14:36] <Jon47> and when you get notifications it turns red and the new number slides in like an odometer would change
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  549. # [14:40] <phrearch_> currently i have something like http://imageshack.us/f/220/screenshottl.jpg/
  550. # [14:40] <phrearch_> i like the messenger to be available at all times
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  553. # [14:41] <phrearch_> i really suck with designing, but i better get it right. good design without much useless stuff like shadows goes a long way
  554. # [14:44] <Aric> do many others in this room have 5+ open personal projects/sites at once or do you actually focus and finish 1 at a time in a timely fashion?
  555. # [14:44] <Aric> i find myself adding sister sites, and other ideas as i go but not getting enough time to work on personal sites and they just kind of hang opem
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  557. # [14:46] <phrearch_> i focus on one project only. not much good at multitasking hehe
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  868. # [18:42] <jetienne_> with the webworker, there is the worker; and what is the other "thread" ? the page ? the main ? the root ?
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  871. # [18:43] <erichynds> I believe most people refer to it as the UI thread
  872. # [18:43] <Pomax> "yes".
  873. # [18:44] <Pomax> it's simply the primary thread, and webworker threads are started parallel to it.
  874. # [18:44] <Pomax> it's not tied to a specific object or element, it's just "the main thread"
  875. # [18:45] <Pomax> browers are fairly free to implement that however they like, as long as the webworked runs parallel to it
  876. # [18:45] <Pomax> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/complete/workers.html#run-a-worker
  877. # [18:48] <jetienne_> ok thanks
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  893. # [19:07] <pl0sh> hey guys, how can I attach an element to the bottom of the page?
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  895. # [19:09] <Pomax> that's a bit of a trick question, because there is no "page"
  896. # [19:09] <Pomax> you can add an element so that it becomes the last element in the DOM "document" element, by using document.appendChild(yourelement)
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  906. # [19:24] <eighty4> pl0sh: I'd say that's more of a #css question
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  908. # [19:25] <Pomax> does #css concern itself with using javascript?
  909. # [19:25] <Pomax> (it's pretty much a DOM manipulation question)
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  912. # [19:27] <jetienne_> q. if i do event.stopPropagation() in a event handler, the other listeners on the same element/event will still receive it, correct?
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  915. # [19:29] <Pomax> "If the capturing EventListener wishes to prevent further processing of the event from occurring it may call the stopProgagation method of the Event interface. This will prevent further dispatch of the event, although additional EventListeners registered at the same hierarchy level will still receive the event."
  916. # [19:29] <Pomax> so if the browsers conforms to the w3c spec, the answer to your question is yes.
  917. # [19:30] <jetienne_> Pomax: any way to prevent it ?
  918. # [19:30] <jetienne_> in my case this is for webworker, and so i got all the messages in all the handlers :(
  919. # [19:31] <jetienne_> because webwork got no 'hierarchy' like DOM may have
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  924. # [19:36] <jetienne_> Pomax: can you give an url on what you pasted ?
  925. # [19:36] <pl0sh> eighty4: thanks, i wasn't sure if I was asking on the right channel actually
  926. # [19:37] <eighty4> pl0sh: depending on what you actually won't you most likely want position: fixed or position: absolute
  927. # [19:38] <pl0sh> alright
  928. # [19:38] <pl0sh> I just wanted to know if there was another technique than position absolute
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  939. # [19:49] <Pomax> jetienne, http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-2-Events/events.html#Events-flow-capture
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  941. # [19:52] <niftylettuce> pseudo element CSS fallback for IE6/7?
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  946. # [20:06] <paul_irish_> http://code.google.com/apis/identitytoolkit/
  947. # [20:06] <paul_irish_> niftylettuce: let it die
  948. # [20:07] <Pomax> microsoft wants IE6 dead. and everyone using IE9.
  949. # [20:07] <Pomax> for once, give them what they want =D
  950. # [20:08] <moo-_-> Pomax: let's just have microsoft dead without IE instead?
  951. # [20:08] <niftylettuce> client pays me to make it work in IE, money is like reeses pieces, u can never have enough
  952. # [20:08] <niftylettuce> but yes, im going to let that sh*t die
  953. # [20:08] <Pomax> no can do, I like my bank and employer to stay extant
  954. # [20:08] <moo-_-> niftylettuce: let's find a better client for you
  955. # [20:08] <Pomax> IE8- dead = yay.
  956. # [20:08] <niftylettuce> moo-_-: plz
  957. # [20:09] <Pomax> but if your client needs IE6, now is the time to tell them about Microsoft's end of life term for that product. At this point you should have been moving to current generation browsers.
  958. # [20:10] <Pomax> in less than a year, IE6 will no longer receive any kind of maintenance updates, including gaping security hole issues.
  959. # [20:10] <moo-_-> I think it doesn't matter until someone writes a nasty enough virus using IE6 as an attack vector and nukes China out from the internet :I
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  961. # [20:10] <Pomax> so that would be... the day it EOLs
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  964. # [20:10] <niftylettuce> they dont "need", I'm dev'ing other projects in unstable branches usin css3 and canvas, no worries mon' :) just had a little question and that was all, we've all had the IE discussion b4 ;)
  965. # [20:11] <niftylettuce> /s/branches/builds
  966. # [20:11] <monteslu> no low latency audio or webgl makes IE9 the new IE6 :)
  967. # [20:11] <monteslu> let it die
  968. # [20:11] <Pomax> the lack of webgl is a bit sad, but I'm not going to shoot down microsoft for finally getting back to making a browser that at least supports the internet as it was used when it came out
  969. # [20:11] <Pomax> IE 10 better have webgl and audio, though
  970. # [20:12] <moo-_-> Pomax: webgl is not going tohappen unless some third party does it
  971. # [20:12] <monteslu> it wont
  972. # [20:12] <monteslu> a third party has
  973. # [20:12] <monteslu> but its not free
  974. # [20:12] <Pomax> stranger things have happened.
  975. # [20:12] <moo-_-> hmm
  976. # [20:12] <monteslu> chrome frame or nothing
  977. # [20:12] <moo-_-> a point
  978. # [20:12] <monteslu> maybe ie10
  979. # [20:12] <monteslu> i mean ie11
  980. # [20:13] <moo-_-> IE9 will never spread if it won't be a forced upgrade
  981. # [20:13] <moo-_-> Windows 8 will probably have IE10?
  982. # [20:14] <irae_> since everyone with IE6 has flash, what's the problem with everyone with IE9 to install chrome frame?
  983. # [20:15] <moo-_-> irae_: it won't
  984. # [20:15] <moo-_-> especially now when Frame has non-admin installer
  985. # [20:15] <Pomax> the problem is there's no reason to use it
  986. # [20:15] <moo-_-> Windows users are trained to click yes yes yes
  987. # [20:15] <Pomax> a) you have rights on your computer - you don't need chrome frame
  988. # [20:16] <Pomax> b) you DON'T have rights on your computer. enjoy getting fired for circumventing security policies.
  989. # [20:16] <monteslu> c)the ms admins wont even know
  990. # [20:16] <moo-_-> Pomax: actually I have talked for one enterprise where they are happy about Google Frame
  991. # [20:16] <Pomax> right, because they don't packet monitor =)
  992. # [20:16] <irae_> if it's user land software it's not circumventing security polices
  993. # [20:16] <Pomax> some will be.
  994. # [20:16] <moo-_-> it gives them extra life for years old Windows XP workstations
  995. # [20:16] <Pomax> but if you work for a dinosaur, it's a potential pink slip
  996. # [20:16] <moo-_-> and they don't need to support IE in internal applications any longer
  997. # [20:17] <monteslu> my only gripe is that users might think IE is runing fast because its using chrome frame
  998. # [20:18] <monteslu> hate for anyone to unwittingly have good thoughts about IE :)
  999. # [20:18] <moo-_-> IE team is good, Microsoft is bad :)
  1000. # [20:19] <monteslu> fair enough
  1001. # [20:19] <moo-_-> microsoft probably still thinks somewhere that holding back web is best for their business
  1002. # [20:19] <moo-_-> e.g. the webgl issue
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  1004. # [20:20] <monteslu> yup, can't have people making 3d objects without directx
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  1084. # [21:55] <sephr> would it be against spec to throw on setTimeout(undefined, 0), since undefined should just be coerced into a string ("undefined")?
  1085. # [21:57] <paul_irish_> >_>
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  1089. # [22:03] <kurrent> ll
  1090. # [22:03] <kurrent> la
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  1093. # [22:04] <kurrent> fuck, might help to detach first
  1094. # [22:04] <Pomax> let's pull up ECMA 5.2
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  1096. # [22:06] <Pomax> not ECMA, purely DOM... and no word seems mentioned
  1097. # [22:06] <Pomax> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/timers.html#timers
  1098. # [22:06] <CoverSlide> there's a 5.2 out?
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  1100. # [22:07] <Pomax> 5.1 - the keys are right next to each other >_>
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  1108. # [22:30] <sephr> Pomax: [AllowAny] DOMString handler, so numbers, undefined, null, etc. should be allowed?
  1109. # [22:30] <sephr> because firefox recently started throwing "useless setTimeout call (missing quotes around argument?)"
  1110. # [22:30] <sephr> with setTimeout(0,0)
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  1114. # [22:45] <Pomax> if your argument is not a function variable, quoting is required.
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  1116. # [22:46] <Pomax> setTimeout(0,0) doesn't make much sense, what are you trying to do?
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  1119. # [22:48] <sephr> Pomax: nothing, but doesn't [AllowAny] mean it should coerce to a string?
  1120. # [22:49] <sephr> there's absolutely no use for this kind of call but it just surprised me that ff threw on that
  1121. # [22:51] <paul_irish_> well i'd be more interested on how useful the two error messages would be
  1122. # [22:51] <paul_irish_> and pick whichever gave the author a more descriptive msg
  1123. # [22:51] <Pomax> I'm not actually sure what [allowany] refers to...
  1124. # [22:51] <Pomax> but there's no , in there, so it reads as a spec for the DOMhandler, not as a type definition
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  1165. # [23:37] <johnwarren> eer
  1166. # [23:37] <bot-t1> (21 hours 20 mins ago) <coldhead> tell johnwarren i'm sorry
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  1168. # [23:39] <johnwarren> Dumb question, but what is the easiest HTML5 fallback for <audio> if I don't need a full-blown player control, but I just need Javascript to play a sound file once on command, on old Internet Explorer software?
  1169. # [23:40] * Joins: axos411 (~axos@xdsl-78-35-173-153.netcologne.de)
  1170. # [23:41] <CoverSlide> Flash?
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  1176. # [23:47] <paul_irish> ?g mediaelement.js
  1177. # [23:47] <bot-t1> paul_irish, MediaElement.js - HTML5 video player and audio player with Flash ... - http://mediaelementjs.com/
  1178. # [23:47] <paul_irish> THANKS FOR LEAVING john warren. jerk.
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  1187. # Session Close: Fri Sep 09 00:00:01 2011

The end :)