/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-09-14 / end

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# Session Start: Wed Sep 14 00:00:00 2011
# Session Ident: #html5
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# [00:07] <pertl> does somebody know how to enable geo location access for files using file:// in chrome?
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# [00:48] <chrisdev_> sean` what does the play call look like for one of those sounds in your clip? I cant figure it out
# [00:48] <sean`> http://client.seankoole.com/klm/game/assets/js/audio.js to init
# [00:49] <sean`> window.sounds.ping.play();
# [00:49] <chrisdev_> ah ok
# [00:49] <chrisdev_> I was trying window.sounds[ping].play();
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# [00:49] <chrisdev_> thx
# [00:50] <sean`> need moar quotes
# [00:50] <sean`> window.sounds['ping'].play ()
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# [00:59] <chrisdev_> argh keep getting Cannot call method 'play' of undefined
# [01:01] <chrisdev_> lol i know why
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# [01:09] <tw2113> damn it, now i'm curious why you were chrisdev_
# [01:10] <chrisdev_> embarassing, but I dont know how to scope window.sounds
# [01:10] <chrisdev_> sounds are being set correctly, but window.sounds is undefined in the body of my app
# [01:10] <tw2113> ah
# [01:10] <tw2113> just curious
# [01:13] <chrisdev_> afaik window is a global var, gr
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# [01:14] <chrisdev_> oic forget it its procedural, var is set after I reference it
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# [01:44] <BFranks> I have a blog I'm working on where someone decided that it was worth using flash to animate some glowing points that wander around the logo: http://yandara.com/blog/wp-content/themes/yandara_homepage_idea3/images/flash.swf .. I tried Swiffy on it and no luck.. There must be a 5 minute trick to add such a simple effect with HTML5?
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# [01:54] <andrewjbaker> Anyone in and around Leeds, UK tomorrow evening can listen to me chat HTML5 games dev at the LeedsJS monthly meetup. http://leedsjs.org/
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# [03:19] <niftylettuce> anyone know if they are going to record the talks in Sao Paulo on the 16th?
# [03:19] <niftylettuce> and anyone here work with mediaelementjs and IE before?
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# [04:39] <tw2113> divya would you happen to know about any support for link rel="prefetch" in opera?
# [04:39] <divya> there is no support in anything but chrome afaik
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# [04:40] <tw2113> MDN is saying that firefox has support too
# [04:41] <tw2113> but i can understand it still being early, and providing it won't harm anything
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# [04:41] <tw2113> thanks :)
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# [05:40] <niftylettuce> divya: <div attr="ya"></div>
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# [06:24] <niftylettuce> http://www.google.com/events/developerday/2011/sao-paulo/agenda/session_1001.html
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# [07:02] <niftylettuce> tw2113: yo
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# [07:03] <tw2113> sup? :)
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# [07:18] <niftylettuce> tw2113: putting final touches on easteregg.in
# [07:19] <niftylettuce> (not up yettt)
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# [07:32] <niftylettuce> layering HTML5 audio?
# [07:32] <niftylettuce> e.g. multiple .play() 's
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# [08:11] <danielfilho> did you guys saw the latest ie dev preview?
# [08:11] <danielfilho> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-gb/ie/hh272902.aspx
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# [08:13] <danielfilho> looks like they're running for it.
# [08:14] <tw2113> can't say yes being a linux guy
# [08:15] <tw2113> i'll give them kudos for doing everything they can to get back in the browser game
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#
# Session Start: Wed Sep 14 12:21:30 2011
# Session Ident: #html5
# [12:21] * Now talking in #html5
# [12:21] * Topic is 'Ask any question about HTML5 & Friends || HTML5 Spec for Developers: http://developers.whatwg.org || Also: http://html5rocks.com http://diveintohtml5.org http://mzl.la/9giLwR || Channel logs: http://j.mp/cG7UDa'
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# [15:38] <newz2000`> Have you seen how some Android phones have zoom buttons in the bottom right corner of the browser? Is there a way to disable those without disabling zoom?
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# [15:38] <Emperorlou> hum, thats true....
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# [15:38] <Emperorlou> just realized thats gonna be an issue
# [15:38] <Emperorlou> for my own html5 apps
# [15:39] <newz2000> yeah, they take up some very valuable realestate
# [15:39] <Emperorlou> perhaps fullscreen mode will solve it
# [15:39] <Emperorlou> if/when it comes about
# [15:39] <Emperorlou> what are you writing?
# [15:40] <newz2000> Emperorlou: I'm working on squaretap.com, it's a mobile app store for html5 web apps, targeted at all modern mobiles
# [15:40] <newz2000> (you're welcome to try it now, it's in beta)
# [15:40] <Emperorlou> cool
# [15:42] <newz2000> I've currently disabled zoom but I'm not happy about it.
# [15:42] <Emperorlou> oh, so you can disable zoom via html?
# [15:43] <newz2000> Emperorlou: yes…
# [15:43] * newz2000 grabs the code
# [15:43] <Emperorlou> well thats not so bad for me
# [15:43] <newz2000> <meta name="viewport" content="width=device-width, initial-scale=1.0, user-scalable=no">
# [15:43] <Emperorlou> neat, I'm gussing thats android only?
# [15:44] <Emperorlou> or is there some standard out there...
# [15:44] <newz2000> no, that's the problem
# [15:44] <Emperorlou> orly
# [15:44] <newz2000> it also means pinch to zoom in safari stops working
# [15:44] <newz2000> or double tap
# [15:44] <Emperorlou> ah
# [15:44] <Emperorlou> hum
# [15:45] <Emperorlou> detect the browser type then perhaps
# [15:46] <newz2000> There is the accessibility aspect… one of the best features of mobile web apps over native apps is the zoom feature for people who need it.
# [15:47] <newz2000> That is theoretical, I've not actually met anyone who uses their mobile that way, but it seems like a good feature
# [15:47] <Emperorlou> ahh, and your web apps run through your software doesn't it..
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# [15:47] <newz2000> no, it's in the browser
# [15:47] <Emperorlou> so disabling it for everyone's webapp would suck
# [15:48] <Emperorlou> nm then
# [15:48] <newz2000> Another prob with disabling zoom is that it causes unexpected results when rotating the screen.
# [15:48] <newz2000> That can be dealt with in code and maybe CSS
# [15:49] <newz2000> ok, so the more I talk about it, the more I think I just need to alter my design to accommodate the zoom buttons on some platforms
# [15:49] <newz2000> (and then grumble about those platforms)
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# [15:49] <Emperorlou> hah
# [15:50] * newz2000 wonders if he can convince everyone on Android to just use Dolphin
# [15:52] * newz2000 confirms, gmail on android has pinch to zoom disabled
# [15:53] <newz2000> Anyone here know someone who works on the mobile web stuff for google? I know they're passionate about analysis and statistics, curious what the cost/benefit argument looked like re disabling zoom
# [15:54] <shomon> try asking in android-dev maybe?
# [15:54] <newz2000> ok
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# [16:03] <shomon> :)
# [16:06] <newz2000> oh, nice, just saw this on twitter: HTML5 compatibility on mobile and tablets: http://mobilehtml5.org/
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# [16:32] <sean`> chrisdev, ping
# [16:32] <chrisdev> yo
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# [16:33] <chrisdev> sean` I spent too much time wrestling with soundmanager last night, had to shelve it for the time being to focus on target platform, which isnt iPad, but I will revisit it when my primary requirements are done
# [16:33] <chrisdev> sean` thanks for the tip
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# [16:34] <sean`> oeh
# [16:34] <sean`> good to know
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# [16:48] <krater> sean` pong
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# [16:51] <sean`> krater, bong
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# [17:28] <paul_irish> neat. https://twitter.com/#!/erikcorry/status/113979928088813568
# [17:28] <socialhapy> ★ Tweet from erikcorry: @jashkenas Yes, and starting in Chrome14, V8 will convert !0 and !1 into true and false in the parser: http://t.co/AhfpKRD ★ http://bit.ly/oBSIFp
# [17:29] <paul_irish> struys: the site i use to determine valid css selectors???
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# [17:48] <Jon47> every little bit counts!
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# [18:34] <howlymowly> alright.
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# [18:37] <howlymowly> Dear most honrable oracle of html5. I come to you asking all of your multiple instances also known as irc-chatters for advice with a little problem of mine:
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# [18:38] <howlymowly> I am writing on dynamic website which dynamically updates constnatly changing values from a server. Now I want to put a little button on that website to "log" these data into a file on the client-side
# [18:38] <howlymowly> any idea, how I could do this?
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# [18:38] <howlymowly> I am having trouble, because the browser API's do not aloow me to save files on the client machine (for a good reason of course) so would there be some kind of a wrok-around?
# [18:39] <howlymowly> I do not want to implement this kind of functionality on the server side...
# [18:39] <howlymowly> for example I would like to log the data into a *.csv file on the client-side
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# [18:43] <newz2000> howlymowly: what are you going to do with the data, process it in the same web app for later or instruct the user to open the data in another program?
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# [18:44] <howlymowly> newz2000: instruct the user to open the data in another program...
# [18:44] <newz2000> I'd suggest, using your CSV as an example, putting it into a text area or a div so that the user can copy and paste it.
# [18:45] <newz2000> The only other way I know to do it is to have the server send the file
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# [18:49] <howlymowly> thx newz2000. although that's not good news for me :)
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# [18:49] <newz2000> howlymowly: ♬ this is the world we live in … ♬
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# [18:50] <howlymowly> :)
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# [18:50] <howlymowly> newz2000: so I guess although I am new to all that webapp stuff I just discovered one of the major "disadvantages" :)
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# [18:51] <newz2000> well, it's an advantage for users that random websits can't put files on their computer
# [18:51] <newz2000> Back in the 90's we could do all kinds of crazy stuff
# [18:52] * newz2000 remembers writing webpages that could communicate with the user's Outlook e-mail and contact list
# [18:52] <howlymowly> newz2000: well.. my intention was rather like this: first I gather all the data in some javascript list and after I stop recording values into that list I ask the user whether he wants to save that dat into a file on his local machine
# [18:53] <newz2000> howlymowly: I would send the data to the server and then have it create a .csv file and redirect to it, causing it to download. (look for the content-disposition header iirc)
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# [18:53] <newz2000> The user won't even notice the redirect, it'll just pop up a save or open dialog
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# [18:53] <BrianBlakely> howlymowly: You can do this in the most bleeding-edge browsers
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# [18:54] <howlymowly> BrianBlakely: You can?
# [18:56] <BrianBlakely> howlymowly: converting a Blob to base64
# [18:56] <BrianBlakely> ?mdc blob
# [18:57] <bot-t> BrianBlakely, Blob - MDN - https://developer.mozilla.org/en/DOM/Blob
# [18:57] <BrianBlakely> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6076047/create-a-download-link-from-a-blob-url
# [18:57] <BrianBlakely> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3665115/create-a-file-in-memory-for-user-to-download-not-through-server
# [18:57] <BrianBlakely> ^ howlymowly
# [18:57] <howlymowly> ahh sh** I gotta go.. but thx. newz2000, BrianBlakely I 'll look into these suggestions
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# [19:02] <cups> hey guys is it possible to combine ccs3 border-image along with background-image? when I try I notice the background image is showing up behind the border image
# [19:02] <BrianBlakely> ?tell howlymowly Also you should use a[download]: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/links.html#attr-hyperlink-download
# [19:02] <bot-t> BrianBlakely, Okay.
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# [19:03] <BrianBlakely> cups: That's all correct
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# [19:04] <BrianBlakely> cups: What would you like to have happen?
# [19:05] <cups> i have a borderimage that I'm stretching to the size of a div and then I wanted an image top and center in front of it
# [19:06] <cups> do I need to put in the background image in the border image file?
# [19:06] <cups> that would stretch the bg image though no?
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# [19:07] <cups> I thought I could layer a bg image in front of a border image
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# [19:08] <BrianBlakely> cups: Nope. The border-image exists on the same layer as the border, which is above the background. Alternatively, you can use ::before to place a presentational element.
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# [19:11] <cups> brian, interesting, can I define a background-image property on the :before pseudo element?
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# [19:12] <BrianBlakely> cups: Think of ::before and ::after as spans. They can do all the CSS stuff that spans can do… and more!
# [19:12] <divya> not really
# [19:12] <divya> but its almost similar
# [19:12] <BrianBlakely> divya: Oh, please correct me
# [19:13] <divya> right now u cant do css animations on them right now
# [19:13] <BrianBlakely> Ah, yes, come to think of it there are some weird limitations
# [19:13] <BrianBlakely> Right, exactly
# [19:13] <BrianBlakely> Ran into this issue last week
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# [19:13] <divya> it should be changed soon tho
# [19:14] <divya> also you cant have before/after on replaced elements
# [19:14] <BrianBlakely> divya: "replaced"?
# [19:14] <divya> img
# [19:14] <divya> select
# [19:14] <divya> input
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# [19:14] <BrianBlakely> Ah, gotcha
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# [19:15] <divya> but its inconsistent right now but should become better
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# [19:16] <BrianBlakely> cups, basically it's a span, except in some very specific circumstances
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# [19:17] <cups> hmm so I've tried adding a background-image to the :before, and I'm not seeing anything, but if I add content "something" I do start to see it
# [19:17] <cups> I've tried adding height and width values but that doesn't seem to do anything
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# [19:17] <divya> cups: u need to add content
# [19:18] <divya> content: ""
# [19:18] <divya> they do not exist without that
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# [19:21] <cups> #wwp:before {
# [19:21] <cups> background: url("http://localhost/css/../images/bg-image.png") no-repeat scroll center top transparent;
# [19:21] <cups> content: " . ";
# [19:21] <cups> height: 500px;
# [19:21] <cups> width: 500px;
# [19:21] <cups> }
# [19:21] <cups> not seeing any of the height or width
# [19:21] <cups> just some background the size of the dot :)
# [19:21] <cups> am I missing something?
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# [19:22] <cups> ah, position absolute seemed to help
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# [19:25] <cups> thanks for the help guys
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# [19:40] <BrianBlakely> cups: You don't need to do ".", you can just feed it an empty string
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# [19:41] <BrianBlakely> ""
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# [19:44] <phrearch> hm, wonder what the most efficient way would be to provide each part of a cms with a custom context menu
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# [19:45] <xonecas> o/
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# [19:47] <phrearch> i suppose the data attribute comes in handy here
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# [19:49] <shepazu> Mr. paul_irish, would you care to add some irish to the W3Conf retweets?
# [19:50] <shepazu> something like "WTFOMGZ! WC3 is haveing a conference I want to go! http://w3conf.org"
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# [19:51] <shepazu> NoNo
# [19:51] <shepazu> NoNoNo is the enemy of OmNomNom
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# [20:00] <BrianBlakely> OMG PARALAX
# [20:00] <BrianBlakely> Does that work shepazu
# [20:00] <divya> :)
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# [20:12] <shepazu> BrianBlakely: yes, indeed
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# [20:28] <BFranks> I have a blog I'm working on where someone decided that it was worth using flash to animate some glowing light points that wander around the logo: http://yandara.com/blog/wp-content/themes/yandara_homepage_idea3/images/flash.swf .. I tried Swiffy on it and no luck.. There must be a 5 minute trick to add such a simple effect with HTML5?
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# [20:30] <moo-_-> BrianBlakely: code animated particles using Javascript and CSS?
# [20:30] <moo-_-> sorry BFranks
# [20:30] <cgcardona> anyone get a copy of windows 8 up and running yet? It's got IE10 which is kinda cool.
# [20:31] <cgcardona> https://plus.google.com/106993790975969476239/posts/R9FyrMx46RE
# [20:31] <cgcardona> https://plus.google.com/106993790975969476239/posts/9Gs1NLRs1eT
# [20:31] <cgcardona> ipad killer i don't think so. But cool evolutionary step for windows? definitely
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# [20:43] <BrianBlakely> https://twitter.com/brianblakely/status/114045202653655040
# [20:43] <socialhapy> ★ Tweet from brianblakely: OMG PARALLAX: http://t.co/BkItq12
# [20:43] <socialhapy> (West Coast gets all the cool events) ★ http://bit.ly/r74wb0
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# [20:49] <cgcardona> anyone answer my question while I was gone?
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# [21:14] <Aric_> im using the new h5bp and my prints on all browsers have no styling at all, the only thing i could find was teh @media print stuff though i am using a framework that may be doing something
# [21:14] <Aric_> anyone else had something like this happen ?
# [21:14] <divya> Aric_: yes h5bp has a print reset
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# [21:15] <Aric_> how do i undo that cause i commented out the #media print part and same problem
# [21:16] <divya> Aric_: o then it is not h5bp
# [21:16] <divya> it would also help if you can paste a link to the site
# [21:16] <Aric_> yea, im looking at the framework as main culprit just thought i'd ask
# [21:16] <Aric_> and i found it :/ sry :)
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# [21:31] <vrlogrs1> hi guys
# [21:31] <vrlogrs1> wondering if this precatch thing works with ajax ?
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# [21:42] <vrlogrs1> is there a good html5 validator ?
# [21:43] <vrlogrs1> with css3 validation as well?
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# [22:11] <shawn_dones> does anyone know of a way to exclude areas of content from search crawlers?
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# [22:11] <BrianBlakely> shawn_dones: display: none;
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# [22:12] <BrianBlakely> shawn_dones: But keep in mind that anything search crawlers can't see, are more-than-likely invisible to screen readers
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# [22:13] <shawn_dones> BrianBlakely: we have a site that has the words "no inappropriate behavior" and we are getting traffic from people who are searching the term "innapropriate behavior"
# [22:13] <BrianBlakely> shawn_dones: Inject that content with JS
# [22:13] <shawn_dones> ok
# [22:13] <shawn_dones> BrianBlakely: thanks
# [22:13] <BrianBlakely> shawn_dones: NP!
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# [22:17] <shawn_dones> wouldnt display: none; prevent anyone from being able to read it?
# [22:18] <shawn_dones> BrianBlakely: i take you mean set it to display none then put it back with HS
# [22:19] <shawn_dones> JS*
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# [22:20] <BrianBlakely> shawn_dones: Ah, I didn't mean that, but you could hide the content with display: none; and then set it to display: block (or whatever) with JavaScript.
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# [22:21] <BrianBlakely> That way, spiders will see display none and ignore it, but users with JS enabled with be OK
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# [22:21] <shawn_dones> BrianBlakely: that would have to be an inline style in order for the crawler to see the rule wouldnt it?
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# [22:23] <BrianBlakely> shawn_dones: It doesn't matter how the content is given its style rules, it can be from an external sheet
# [22:23] <BrianBlakely> As long as it's none'd
# [22:23] <shawn_dones> BrianBlakely: i see and the crawler doesnt see the javascript stuff
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# [22:24] <BrianBlakely> shawn_dones: Yep, spiders totally ignore JS changes to the doc
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# [22:28] <shawn_dones> BrianBlakely: thanks, i think we are gonna roll wit it
# [22:28] <BrianBlakely> shawn_dones: Noice, hope it works out :)
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# [22:36] <alaing> just wonder if i could use drawImage to draw the image and then some way of coloring in the image using canvas
# [22:38] <BrianBlakely> alaing: https://developer.mozilla.org/En/HTML/Canvas/Pixel_manipulation_with_canvas
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# [22:41] <alaing> thanks i have a read through that
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# [22:52] <chovy> does anyone know if <input name="foo[]" /> syntax works in IE7?
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# [22:59] <Itrace> Do screen readers treat HTML5 tags like <header>, <nav>, <aside>, etc. in any special way?
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# [23:08] <uptownben> Hey all.
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# [23:16] <paul_irish> why do they never stick around....
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# [23:19] <paul_irish> cgcardona: you moved to SF?
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# [23:20] <tw2113> yo cgcardona
# [23:20] <cgcardona> paul_irish: actually I'm living in larkspur and taking the ferry into the city each day for work. I'm on the mobile team at trulia now. So yeah I'm here mon-fri and the farmers market at the ferry building on sat.
# [23:21] <cgcardona> lovin it
# [23:21] <paul_irish> oic
# [23:21] <paul_irish> hot
# [23:21] <cgcardona> howdy tw2113 how ya been?
# [23:21] <Itrace> To reiterate: Do screen readers treat HTML5 tags like <header>, <nav>, <aside>, etc. in any special way?
# [23:21] <cgcardona> yeah stokage
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# [23:21] <paul_irish> Itrace: oh you're i trace.. my autocomplete was failing with Ltrace
# [23:21] <paul_irish> mothereff
# [23:21] <paul_irish> Itrace: its a great question you ask.
# [23:21] <paul_irish> the idea is that they are supposed to
# [23:21] <tw2113> i would hope they'd start soon if they haven't already Itrace
# [23:21] <paul_irish> but reality is a bit murkier than that.
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# [23:22] <paul_irish> http://www.delicious.com/paul.irish/aria the first four links in partic are helpful in answering ths
# [23:22] <tw2113> cgcardona debating and wondering if i am using freelancing to pay bills or if i should be calling myself a business, 6 months since i started
# [23:22] <Itrace> OK. So the end result would be that the <nav> tag would be treated similarly to how a <ul> tag or a <h1> tag work?
# [23:22] <tantek> indeed - it often takes a lot of work to figure out what any given screen reader (version thereof) does with any particular markup pattern.
# [23:23] <paul_irish> Itrace: no...
# [23:23] <cgcardona> i say call yourself a business. Then you can hire other developers to work for/with you.
# [23:23] <paul_irish> <nav> would be treated similarly to <div role=navigation>
# [23:23] <paul_irish> ul and h1 have completely different semantics
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# [23:23] <paul_irish> both in semantic land and in SR land
# [23:25] <Itrace> paul_irish: I guess I was alluding to the fact that they would be given a some significance in a screen reader. Something to differentiate them from other tags. Is that true?
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# [23:26] <paul_irish> yes.......
# [23:26] <paul_irish> look at the links i pointed you to
# [23:26] <paul_irish> the spec says they get treated differently
# [23:26] <paul_irish> and there is some reasearch on how they act in reality
# [23:26] <Itrace> that's a good enough answer for now. Until I can see it in a working screen reader I'm not going to know how to code for it.
# [23:26] <paul_irish> there are weird cases where <b>, strong, i, em.. are all treated the same as a span
# [23:27] <paul_irish> well ya know
# [23:27] <paul_irish> pick what you think is a semantic choice
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# [23:27] <paul_irish> dont waste a day on it.
# [23:27] <paul_irish> keep your site accessible via keyboard
# [23:27] <divya> just use the <b>
# [23:27] <divya> or i
# [23:27] <paul_irish> and test it in NVDA or VoiceOver if you have some extra time
# [23:27] <divya> whichever is smaller
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# [23:28] <paul_irish> divya: i have replaced all my <div>s with <b>s to keep my filesize down
# [23:28] <divya> wtg paul_irish
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# [23:28] <Itrace> paul_irish: thanks
# [23:28] <paul_irish> :D
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# [23:29] <paul_irish> chriseppstein: u trying to make me write stuff?
# [23:29] <paul_irish> HOW DARE U
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# [23:30] <chriseppstein> ^_^
# [23:30] <chriseppstein> I don't know if it even makes sense really
# [23:31] <chriseppstein> sass nesting is probably good enough
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# [23:33] <cgcardona> tw2113: do you work entirely alone or with a crew?
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# [23:34] <MaMos> ciao
# [23:35] <tw2113> alone and usually contracted into projects already started
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# [23:35] <tw2113> so actually...partly alone
# [23:35] <tw2113> i rarely have the client interaction
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# [23:38] <tw2113> so my clients are generally more freelancers/companies who don't know how to code/don't want to code/want to outsource some work
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# [23:44] <hamcore> Is there a way to compress meta tags?
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# [23:54] <chriseppstein> Is it the case that a whole selector is discarded by IE if one of the comma delimited elements isn't understood?
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# Session Close: Thu Sep 15 00:00:00 2011

The end :)