/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-09-16 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri Sep 16 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
  3. # [00:01] <tantek> why not characterize it as "flexible" environment rather than "mobile"?
  4. # [00:02] <suprraz> yea sure!
  5. # [00:02] <Pomax> or, given how people make mobile sites, "sparse" vs. "full"
  6. # [00:03] <tantek> where sparse usually means good content/copy design, and full means noisy and full of crap that wastes bandwidth and no one looks at?
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  8. # [00:03] <suprraz> i think mobile content will be richer than desktop content
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  10. # [00:03] <tantek> I say flexible rather than mobile because the #/range/uses of mobile devices has exploded
  11. # [00:04] <Pomax> I've seen the opposite too, where mobile means "useless" and real means "Actually showing images"
  12. # [00:04] <suprraz> exactly the kinds of quality filtering mobile needs
  13. # [00:05] <suprraz> i stick with calling mobile because i think when mobile the mindset is different
  14. # [00:05] <Pomax> if you're in a modern western country, say, and you're on an unlimited or too-much-to-user-per-month data plan, you don't care about saving b/w. You want a good looking webapp or site.
  15. # [00:05] <suprraz> biggest resource on smartphones? Time.
  16. # [00:05] <suprraz> you don't want to waste the user's time
  17. # [00:05] <Pomax> with 1ghz+ procs, time is fast becoming irrelevant too
  18. # [00:06] <Pomax> navigation vs use time, though, yes. you want to drive down the first while keeping the second high
  19. # [00:06] <Pomax> but that's the first principle of user interface design, really.
  20. # [00:08] <suprraz> so you're saying the same website should be shared across all devices
  21. # [00:08] <tantek> Pomax - I've seen dumbed down "mobile" sites too and they're quite annoying.
  22. # [00:08] <tantek> You can't assume mobile means fast - even in western countries.
  23. # [00:08] <tantek> The networks fail and lag all the time.
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  25. # [00:09] <suprraz> yes. network issues will remain, and possible grow. that's where tools like HTML5 cache and storage come to play
  26. # [00:10] <tantek> e.g. slow connections: conferences, dialup, third world, rural cell coverage, urban subways/BART, protests, disasters.
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  28. # [00:10] <tantek> suprraz - yes - was responding to Pomax's idealistic assessment of a "a modern western country"
  29. # [00:10] <Pomax> I'm not touching third world. The way the web and mobiles are user there is so radically different that I simply don't understand their use model.
  30. # [00:10] * Quits: chrisbuc1holz (~cb@li189-30.members.linode.com) (Client Quit)
  31. # [00:10] <Pomax> *are used
  32. # [00:10] <tantek> you have to care about bandwidth
  33. # [00:11] <tantek> even in "a modern western country"
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  36. # [00:11] <Pomax> true, but you shouldn't sacrifice content over it too readily
  37. # [00:11] <tantek> otherwise your app/site/page sucks
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  39. # [00:11] <tantek> for the same reason, you can't depend on Javascript either (assuming you're designing for "flexible/mobile" rather than desktop/hardline environments)
  40. # [00:12] <tantek> e.g. what happens on a slow network when users click an AJAX #!-link before the JS loads? nothing. slow net is like JS-off.
  41. # [00:12] <Pomax> it's particularly interesting when tablets are involved. Opening a site on an ipad or samsung galaxy over wifi and discovering it picked the mobile version for you is infuriating
  42. # [00:12] <suprraz> yes- this is a transition period
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  44. # [00:13] <suprraz> everyone's experimenting trying to define the way to do things
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  46. # [00:13] <tantek> Pomax - hence why "mobile version" is bad design
  47. # [00:13] <tantek> clean and flexible design works everywhere, mobile, desktop, tablet etc.
  48. # [00:13] <tantek> The new Boston Globe design is a good example
  49. # [00:14] * slifty is now known as dr_slifty
  50. # [00:14] <tantek> Jeremy's blog post discusses it: http://adactio.com/journal/4862/
  51. # [00:14] * dr_slifty is now known as slifty
  52. # [00:14] <tantek> and the clincher at the bottom of the post - the new Boston Globe even works reasonably on the old Apple Newton
  53. # Session Close: Fri Sep 16 00:16:02 2011
  54. #
  55. # Session Start: Fri Sep 16 00:16:02 2011
  56. # Session Ident: #html5
  57. # [00:16] * Disconnected
  58. # [00:17] * Attempting to rejoin channel #html5
  59. # [00:17] * Rejoined channel #html5
  60. # [00:17] * Topic is 'Ask any question about HTML5 & Friends || HTML5 Spec for Developers: http://developers.whatwg.org || Also: http://html5rocks.com http://diveintohtml5.org http://mzl.la/9giLwR || Channel logs: http://j.mp/cG7UDa'
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  89. # [00:58] <paul_irish_> https://twitter.com/#!/search/realtime/%23mobilewood
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  110. # [01:44] <gavacho> hrm, wheres a good place to look up if "disabled" is a valid attr on <a> in html5
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  113. # [01:47] <Pomax> http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/commands.html#dom-command-ro-disabled
  114. # [01:48] <Pomax> more elaborately, http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/elements.html
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  116. # [01:50] <gavacho> the first link suggests that all commands support the disabled attr
  117. # [01:50] <gavacho> but i dont believe that <a> does
  118. # [01:51] <Pomax> it suggests it's not illegal, but it does suggest it doesn't necessarily do anything, as attributes should be used only when they make semantic sense (go magical phrasing)
  119. # [01:52] <gavacho> surely theres a better reference
  120. # [01:52] <Pomax> basically disabling an anchor link is meaningless, because that means it's not an anchor link
  121. # [01:52] <Pomax> in which case you wouldn't mark up whatever you've marked up with it.
  122. # [01:53] <gavacho> yeah, our markup guy is using <a> where <button> would probably be more appropriate
  123. # [01:53] <gavacho> i guess to get <a> styling w/o having to write rules
  124. # [01:53] <Pomax> that's the whole point of css
  125. # [01:54] <Pomax> pick your markup based on what your content represents, then style it the way you want it to look (after first applying a reset stylesheet because browser default inconsistencies)
  126. # [01:55] <gavacho> someone else had linked a good html5 reference earlier
  127. # [01:55] <gavacho> i wish i book marked it now
  128. # [01:55] <gavacho> thanks for your help pomax
  129. # [01:55] <gavacho> lates
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  131. # [02:00] <Pomax> what did it start with?
  132. # [02:00] <Pomax> (I can grep my log for you)
  133. # [02:01] <gavacho> it was weeks ago
  134. # [02:01] <gavacho> im a lurker
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  136. # [02:03] <Pomax> if you remember some text around it, I can still grep for it =)
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  142. # [02:09] <gavacho> yeah i have /last too
  143. # [02:09] <gavacho> Irssi 0.8.14 (20090728) - http://irssi.org/
  144. # [02:09] <gavacho> ;)
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  148. # [02:12] <Pomax> I don't. I simply have the log up to august 17th
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  216. # [05:15] <h5bp_super_fan> gavacho: .15 is out alredy
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  252. # [07:09] <cgcardona> anyone remember the name of that open source project that twitter released a couple of months ago that is basically like a template for a webapp?
  253. # [07:10] * Joins: mike5w3c (~MikeSmith@EM1-112-188-180.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  254. # [07:11] <ryanseddon> bootstrap
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  256. # [07:12] <chovy> yeah
  257. # [07:16] <chovy> http://devworks.thinkdigit.com/Internet/Twitter-open-sources-toolkit-Bootstrap_7398.html
  258. # [07:16] <chovy> didn't they release something else a year or two ago?
  259. # [07:16] <chovy> hibernate or something like that.
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  266. # [07:43] <cgcardona> ryanseddon: chovy yep that's it. thanks :-]
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  314. # [09:06] <Neiluj> hey
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  317. # [09:07] <Neiluj> Hello everybody, any idea how to handle text-shadow + background-clip:text ? :)
  318. # [09:07] <Neiluj> it looks ugly as shadow is over background :-(
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  326. #
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  332. # [09:18] * Topic is 'Ask any question about HTML5 & Friends || HTML5 Spec for Developers: http://developers.whatwg.org || Also: http://html5rocks.com http://diveintohtml5.org http://mzl.la/9giLwR || Channel logs: http://j.mp/cG7UDa'
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  359. # [09:46] <Spabby> hi folks, I'm trying to draw a 32x32 pixel image on my canvas using drawImage, but it is drawing it with the wrong aspect ratio, it looks like an elongated ball! my code is: c.drawImage(sprite, 0, 0, 32, 32, 0, 0, 32, 32);
  360. # [09:48] <Spabby> ok, I fixed it, I didn't set the width and height in the canvas tag, only css :)
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  410. # [11:30] * Topic is 'Ask any question about HTML5 & Friends || HTML5 Spec for Developers: http://developers.whatwg.org || Also: http://html5rocks.com http://diveintohtml5.org http://mzl.la/9giLwR || Channel logs: http://j.mp/cG7UDa'
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  434. # [12:19] <phrearch> hey
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  436. # [12:20] <phrearch> anyone knows if the history api allows you to pullstate?
  437. # [12:20] <phrearch> ah, got it
  438. # [12:20] <phrearch> window.history.back();
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  475. # [13:43] <mokush> any of you experienced issues with cors requests not working on windows xp, with any browser? and the same requests working perfectly on win7, linux, osx?
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  495. # [14:23] <jetienne> in javascript, this.__proto__ isnt standard apparently. is there a standard replacement ? which browser doesnt support __proto__
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  630. # [17:46] <dilvie> Is there any way to ask Chrome how many cores there are for the purpose of spawning an appropriate number of web workers?
  631. # [17:47] <Ms2ger> No
  632. # [17:47] <dilvie> As I understand it, there's no way defined in the spec, but it would be a useful extension. I'm seriously considering writing a full fledged digital audio workstation all in the browser. =)
  633. # [17:48] <Ms2ger> I don't want to tell everyone how many cores I have, thank you very much
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  637. # [17:49] <dilvie> Ms2ger: You're not my target audience, then. I want to write a DAW, and the users of the DAW will be more interested in how many channels of audio and signal processing horsepower they get to play with than keeping it secret that they only opted for the dual-core instead of the 8-core model...
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  642. # [17:54] <dilvie> For now I could make it a configuration option.
  643. # [17:55] <jetienne> dilvie: you can autodetect it by measuring webworker speed.
  644. # [17:56] <dilvie> jetienne: I thought about that, but I haven't tested it. Do you know of any sample implementations I could look at?
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  648. # [17:56] <jetienne> dilvie: measurement will give you the power of each core too. they may change a lot depending on the frequency and cpu type
  649. # [17:56] <jetienne> dilvie: no i dunno any
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  653. # [18:03] <dilvie> anybody else using github?
  654. # [18:03] <dilvie> ur, I mean cloud9
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  659. # [18:04] <dilvie> Cloud9 isn't showing any of my projects, nor do I see a way to create a new one. It was working fine last time I checked. );
  660. # [18:07] <dilvie> looks like a dependency failing to load.
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  741. # [20:02] <dilvie> w00t, Chrome Native Client http://www.naclbox.com/gallery
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  743. # [20:05] <mokush> dilvie: omg monkey island 1. native client rocks!
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  745. # [20:06] <dilvie> lol
  746. # [20:06] <dilvie> enjoy.. ttyl
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  796. # [21:02] <danielfilho> miketaylr: FTR, I already miss 5 guys.
  797. # [21:02] <miketaylr> mmm
  798. # [21:02] <miketaylr> danielfilho: how's goog day?
  799. # [21:02] <danielfilho> tense. I'm dying.
  800. # [21:02] <miketaylr> that good, eh
  801. # [21:03] <danielfilho> need to sleep. I've been up since 8am yesterday
  802. # [21:03] <miketaylr> is paul still speaking?
  803. # [21:03] <miketaylr> oof
  804. # [21:03] <danielfilho> nope, but he have one more talk today.
  805. # [21:03] <danielfilho> I liked the offline talk he gave, lots of great links.
  806. # [21:03] <miketaylr> tell him i said if, if you see him
  807. # [21:03] <miketaylr> err i said "hi"
  808. # [21:04] <danielfilho> next one is about developer tools, but I thin it's the one we've already saw
  809. # [21:04] <ziyadb_> danielfilho: could you paste a link to these talks?
  810. # [21:04] <danielfilho> I'll tell… just talked to him.
  811. # [21:05] <danielfilho> sure ziyadb_
  812. # [21:05] <danielfilho> one of them was http://westcoastlogic.com/lawnchair/
  813. # [21:05] <danielfilho> he probably will share his slides, so you can have the whole presentation
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  816. # [21:06] <danielfilho> other one was http://manifest-validator.com/
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  866. # [22:21] <BrianBlakely> Does someone have the channel ID for HTML5 gamedev?
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  868. # [22:22] <moo-_-> BrianBlakely: let's start #html5games?
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  870. # [22:23] <BrianBlakely> moo-_-: I'm pretty sure the channel I describe is a thing that exists
  871. # [22:23] <BrianBlakely> moo-_-: Hah, but I'm in there right now
  872. # [22:24] <moo-_-> I am not sure about that
  873. # [22:24] <moo-_-> maybe for a specific library
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  875. # [22:27] <BrianBlakely> moo-_-: It's #bbg
  876. # [22:27] <BrianBlakely> Stands for "browser-based games"
  877. # [22:27] <BrianBlakely> But it's not a very big group?
  878. # [22:27] <BrianBlakely> Heh
  879. # [22:27] <BrianBlakely> OK, it's like everyone in here
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  896. # [22:50] <basti_> hey people. i tried to google for that but no avail: is there any way to find out if a canvas is still updating?
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  898. # [22:50] <basti_> i want to prevent a canvas from being flooded with data that it can't draw in time
  899. # [22:51] <basti_> there'll be regular updates, and they should be performed "as soon as possible", but not in the sense that they'd be stacked for several seconds worth
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  901. # [22:54] <basti_> an event that is fired if an update is complete would be useful in the same sense
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  913. # [23:17] <moo-_-> basti_: requestAnimationFrame()
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  915. # [23:19] <basti_> moo-_-: that sounds like a good hint
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  917. # [23:21] <moo-_-> basti_: google paul irish blog post about it
  918. # [23:21] <moo-_-> it has x-browser compatible way to call it
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  923. # [23:41] <basti_> moo-_-: ok, that appears to work, thank you :)
  924. # [23:43] <moo-_-> basti_: np
  925. # [23:43] <moo-_-> cool shit for cool people :)
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  927. # [23:48] <Velmont> ;-) can also read the blog post for html5-benchmark.com
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  933. # Session Close: Sat Sep 17 00:00:00 2011

The end :)