/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-09-22 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Sep 22 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
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  25. # [00:27] <blognewb> hello is there a way to batch convert swf's to html5?
  26. # [00:29] <OzDave_mbp> google has a current beta program called swiffy but It loses a lot of interaction http://www.google.com/doubleclick/studio/swiffy/
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  35. # [00:36] <blognewb> Hey OzDave_mbp !
  36. # [00:36] <blognewb> do you always have to convert to the big 3 mp4 ogg/ogv and webm?
  37. # [00:37] <blognewb> can i just not pick one which would be cross platform
  38. # [00:37] <OzDave_mbp> mp4 is the closest for some codec setups
  39. # [00:37] <blognewb> OzDave_mbp the one that does not need any plugin?
  40. # [00:38] <blognewb> supported by IE, FF, chrome, safari those 4 at least
  41. # [00:38] <OzDave_mbp> they all need the codec at the end of the day but mp4 should be the closest without
  42. # [00:38] <OzDave_mbp> http://caniuse.com/#search=mp4
  43. # [00:39] <blognewb> wow thanks
  44. # [00:39] <OzDave_mbp> np
  45. # [00:39] <blognewb> you are awesome
  46. # [00:39] <OzDave_mbp> rock on! :P
  47. # [00:40] <blognewb> ie9 is a bitch
  48. # [00:41] <blognewb> OzDave_mbp are you able to do html5 on ie9 without problem
  49. # [00:41] <blognewb> s
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  51. # [00:41] <OzDave_mbp> I barely check it nowadays :P
  52. # [00:43] <OzDave_mbp> browsershots.org saves a lot of time
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  58. # [00:44] <blognewb> oh sorry
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  60. # [00:45] <blognewb> OzDave_mbp i guess my real question actually is.. can i just not produce a video container on the fly depending on the browser so i don't have to keep a lot of video formats per file?
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  62. # [00:46] <OzDave_mbp> you can do that with a DOM or a javascript etc
  63. # [00:46] <blognewb> realy?
  64. # [00:46] <blognewb> convert a file on the fly using dom?!
  65. # [00:46] <blognewb> you sure
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  68. # [00:47] <OzDave_mbp> oh I meant feed it the right file from a set of them
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  71. # [00:48] <OzDave_mbp> a container on the fly is different to the contents on the fly
  72. # [00:48] <Aric> is there an alternative to cloud9ide? i don't feel like paying 15/mo for private repositories..
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  88. # [01:08] <blognewb> google chrome video controls are fug
  89. # [01:09] <Aric> Freakin Uber Good?
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  121. # [01:49] <blognewb> hello?
  122. # [01:50] <blognewb> what do you guys suggest in serving html5 video? can it be done if i have only one file format in ftp for the 3 containers to use
  123. # [01:51] <vu> hi
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  139. # [02:11] <blognewb> hey guys do you have to pay royalty to mpeg-la if you decide to sell h264 videos
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  147. # [02:17] <blognewb> is there a way to know which file format was used in a mp4 container file?
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  156. # [02:33] <blognewb> hey is it possible to use and house only one video file format to yield 3 diff container files mp4 webm and ogg for html5 videos or do i have to store static mp4 webm ogg in my server
  157. # [02:34] * |3b| would expect not
  158. # [02:35] <|3b|> they are different codecs, not just containers, and CPU for transcoding would probably be a lot more expensive than storage for most uses
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  177. # [02:55] <gavacho> argh, is there a way to get chrome to bypass the cache during dev
  178. # [02:55] <gavacho> or do i have to clear cache every time i reload
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  185. # [03:18] <blognewb> hey do producers have to pay royalty to mpegla if you self h264 videos?
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  188. # [03:24] <miketaylr> probably
  189. # [03:24] <miketaylr> but IANAL
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  219. # [04:36] <blognewb> .mov == .m4v == .mp4 == .m4a ?
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  222. # [04:40] <Pomax> not exactly
  223. # [04:41] <Pomax> extensions aren't the real indicator.
  224. # [04:42] <Pomax> the official container extension is .mp4, .m4a is technically for audio only, .m4v for video only, and .mov is quicktime video. But ultimately the extension is completely irrelevant because it's the mime type and content that make things work or not
  225. # [04:42] <Pomax> (m4v is also used for raw bitstreams, just to make things more fun)
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  230. # [05:01] <danbeam> anybody know a quick way to find the codec used to encode audio inside a container (i.e. .mp4)?
  231. # [05:01] <danbeam> it's one of AAC, HE-AAC, H.264 but I don't know which one
  232. # [05:03] <Pomax> tried gspot?
  233. # [05:03] <danbeam> sorry, it's an .m4a as container, not mp4 (mime of audio/mp4 confused me, heh)
  234. # [05:03] <Pomax> older app, still functional.
  235. # [05:03] <Pomax> http://www.headbands.com/gspot/
  236. # [05:04] <danbeam> Pomax: I just instinctively when to gspot.com, that was a bad choice
  237. # [05:05] <Pomax> haha
  238. # [05:05] <Pomax> yeeaaahh....
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  240. # [05:06] <danbeam> haha
  241. # [05:12] <danbeam> I guess from HTML5 audio's perspective this doesn't matter much, you just pass a mime type
  242. # [05:12] <danbeam> i.e. document.createElement('audio').canPlayType('audio/mp4')
  243. # [05:12] <danbeam> so it's cool
  244. # [05:12] <danbeam> Pomax: thanks
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  260. # [05:53] <blognewb> hey guys!! any thoughts on this: http://videojs.com/
  261. # [05:54] <divya> use it
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  265. # [05:56] <thatryan> lol
  266. # [05:56] <thatryan> try this one http://mediaelementjs.com/
  267. # [06:01] <kurtzhong> cool
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  273. # [06:13] <daleharvey> that blog post by joe hewitt is nuts, I really dont get it
  274. # [06:13] <Pomax> start on the assumption that most people think "The web" is a single thing.
  275. # [06:14] <Pomax> it makes a bit more sense then.
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  277. # [06:18] <daleharvey> I still dont get it, the web is the dominant platform, it has lots of people pushing it, its moving faster than it has in like a decade, its dominant precisely because it has no owner
  278. # [06:18] <daleharvey> there are 0 sentences that make sense to me, and joe hewitt is like a web superstar
  279. # [06:19] <daleharvey> he probably gets more roadies than paul_irish
  280. # [06:19] <daleharvey> s/roadies/groupies
  281. # [06:20] <Pomax> yup, that's what it's doing now.
  282. # [06:20] <Pomax> for now.
  283. # [06:22] * GoOz is now known as GoOz`aw
  284. # [06:23] <Pomax> from what I can tell his lament is that there's no bug tracker for "the web"
  285. # [06:23] <Pomax> (I'd agree with that, but I'd use fewer words)
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  287. # [06:24] <Pomax> if you want something on the web, you need to get six browser companies and at least three standards bodies to ratify it
  288. # [06:25] <blognewb> phew
  289. # [06:28] <daleharvey> I have a hard time thinking that joe hewitt does not understand that the web is the most dominant platform precisely because it doesnt have an owner
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  292. # [06:33] <Pomax> you're going to have to find some damn good statistics to prove it's "the dominant platform". It's certainly the dominant online platform, but where do users spend their time? on web pages, or in apps? usually the latter. do you need the web for that? well... no. you don't.
  293. # [06:34] <Pomax> so the web's just one of the many platforms that gives users the environment they spend of their time in. and it's still playing catchup to richer platforms.
  294. # [06:34] <Pomax> *most of their
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  429. # [10:22] <tawhid111> hello
  430. # [10:22] <tawhid111> anyone in here
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  433. # [10:24] <Moo^_-> echo echo echo
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  446. # [10:44] <tawhid111> anyone in here
  447. # [10:44] <tawhid111> was wondering if anyone could help me
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  462. # [11:03] <Moo^_-> tawhid111: http://opensourcehacker.com/2011/03/17/rfc-simple-internet-question-asking-protocol-for-human-beings/ maybe
  463. # [11:08] <tawhid111> Moo^_-
  464. # [11:08] <tawhid111> does not
  465. # [11:08] <tawhid111> relate to me
  466. # [11:08] <tawhid111> :|
  467. # [11:09] <tawhid111> but im glad i ve got someone to help me
  468. # [11:09] <Moo^_-> tawhid111: it relates to you
  469. # [11:09] <tawhid111> elaborate
  470. # [11:09] <Moo^_-> the article is to show how to ask questions in internet, like in IRC
  471. # [11:09] <Moo^_-> you need to first free yourself from your cultural bounds
  472. # [11:09] <Moo^_-> and forget the smalltalk
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  474. # [11:09] <Moo^_-> and just ask the question
  475. # [11:09] <Moo^_-> thank
  476. # [11:09] <Moo^_-> and get away with it :)
  477. # [11:10] <Moo^_-> because
  478. # [11:10] <tawhid111> haha thanks man did you write this
  479. # [11:10] <Moo^_-> no one is going to volunteer to help you
  480. # [11:10] * Joins: shichuan (~Shi_Chuan@92.27.137.83)
  481. # [11:10] <Moo^_-> unless they first know what you are asking
  482. # [11:10] <Moo^_-> they can't read your mind, you know :)
  483. # [11:10] <tawhid111> A: US of A just retired one reliable space shuttle what you could use. But if I were you I’d consider underwater base instead, as they will become cheaper in long run, since you can more easily produce breathable oxygen.
  484. # [11:10] <tawhid111> well i did copy past the paragrph
  485. # [11:11] <tawhid111> which states my goal
  486. # [11:11] <Moo^_-> so
  487. # [11:11] <Moo^_-> if your question is related to html5
  488. # [11:11] <tawhid111> as in i wanted the bring the topic as a discussion
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  490. # [11:12] <tawhid111> indeed but i had initially came here because
  491. # [11:12] <tawhid111> html5 is dead
  492. # [11:13] <Moo^_-> yes
  493. # [11:13] <tawhid111> and thought someone knowledgable here
  494. # [11:13] <Moo^_-> we know
  495. # [11:13] <Moo^_-> everyone have moved to html6 already
  496. # [11:13] <tawhid111> could enlighten me
  497. # [11:13] <Moo^_-> :)
  498. # [11:13] <tawhid111> with my task
  499. # [11:13] <tawhid111> but thats for the article no doubt
  500. # [11:14] <tawhid111> i havent used irc since botnet days
  501. # [11:14] <tawhid111> O_0
  502. # [11:14] <Moo^_-> tawhid111: we still don't know what's your task
  503. # [11:15] <tawhid111> Moo^_-
  504. # [11:15] <tawhid111> i did copy past it
  505. # [11:15] <tawhid111> twice by following your article i dont want to flood
  506. # [11:15] <tawhid111> O_0
  507. # [11:16] <Moo^_-> so you have a space shuttle?
  508. # [11:16] <tawhid111> i wish
  509. # [11:16] <tawhid111> haha
  510. # [11:16] <tawhid111> are you refering to nasa
  511. # [11:16] <tawhid111> im just kidding man
  512. # [11:17] <tawhid111> yeah i had stated what i wanted to know
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  515. # [11:17] <Moo^_-> tawhid111: I don't see any question
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  517. # [11:17] <Moo^_-> tawhid111: you say you copy-pasted it?
  518. # [11:18] <tawhid111> let me copy past it
  519. # [11:18] <tawhid111> again
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  521. # [11:21] <Moo^_-> it might not be coming through IRC
  522. # [11:21] <Moo^_-> because I really don't see anything
  523. # [11:21] <Moo^_-> is it multiline copy-paste?
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  549. # [11:55] <shbk1> hello! I ain't web programmer. I like c/c++. recently I 've fount out that it's possible to write in javascript code and it will be executed. but as I see javascript isn't enough power. are there any options to insert at least java code or (I'll be happy) , if execution of c/c++ is possible.
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  551. # [11:57] <shbk1> any minds?
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  556. # [12:04] <Moo^_-> shbk1: http://code.google.com/p/nativeclient/
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  559. # [12:07] <tawhid111> lol
  560. # [12:07] <tawhid111> Moo^_-
  561. # [12:07] <tawhid111> The requirements are as follows:
  562. # [12:07] <tawhid111> • All pages of your department Web site should have a consistent look-and-feel, using style sheets and templates.
  563. # [12:07] <tawhid111> • Use <table> instead of <frame> to layout each page.
  564. # [12:07] <tawhid111> • On each page there should a banner, a horizontal menu bar, a vertical navigation bar, and a main area for presentation and/or work. The banner should have a logo on it.
  565. # [12:07] <tawhid111> • You need to implement drop-down menus for at least one menu item on the horizontal menu bar, sliding menus for at least two menu items on the horizontal menu bar, and at least two pop-up menus for menu items on the vertical navigation bar.
  566. # [12:07] <tawhid111> • You should provide at least two levels of your own Web pages for the Web site.
  567. # [12:09] <tawhid111> make an image map using the logo
  568. # [12:09] <tawhid111> you there Moo^_-
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  574. # [12:12] <shbk1> Moo^_-: it's fantastic
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  578. # [12:14] <Moo^_-> tawhid111: those are requirements
  579. # [12:14] <Moo^_-> I am not doing your work for you
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  581. # [12:14] <Moo^_-> but I'd say who ever put those requirements on the paper does not know what he or she is doing
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  628. # [13:58] <mokush> If I use this technique: http://www.craig-russell.co.uk/refresh-manifest-cache-without-htaccess/ to update the cache manifest, won't the browser also re-download the files specified in the manifest every time?
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  630. # [14:00] <Lebannen> mokush: I think that technique is to avoid Firefox cacheing of old manifest files. So with that, the manifest file will be checked every launch/visit; this will only trigger a re-download of all the files if the manifest content has also changed
  631. # [14:00] <mokush> so all browsers will test if any of the files in the manifest have changed, and if they did they'll re-download, otherwise, they won't?
  632. # [14:01] <Lebannen> they don't test the files or even the file paths - instead they look for any change in the manifest, whether that's to one of the filenames, a reordering, or even just a comment
  633. # [14:01] <mokush> so changeing the manifest file, with the added comment trick for example, only prompts the browser to check the files, but doesn't force it to re-download?
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  635. # [14:02] <Lebannen> Basically, webkit-based browsers *always* download the manifest for each new site visit, to check whether it has changed at all (even via the comment trick); if it has, they re-download all the files
  636. # [14:03] <Lebannen> Firefox used the cache settings on the manifest file, so if your manifest was set to be cached for three days, firefox would only look at the manifest content for changes every three days
  637. # [14:03] * GoOz`aw is now known as GoOz
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  639. # [14:04] <Lebannen> so that post just outlines the method to bring firefox into line with webkit-based browsers
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  641. # [14:05] <mokush> Lebannen: so changeing the manifest forces the browser to re-download everything?
  642. # [14:05] <Lebannen> mokush: yes
  643. # [14:05] <mokush> Lebannen: thanks!
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  646. # [14:14] <mokush> so does this Firefox bug still persist with FF6?
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  649. # [14:25] <larrytek> hello
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  662. # [14:59] <narcarsiss> hello?
  663. # [15:00] <Moo^_-> hello
  664. # [15:00] <narcarsiss> well well, someone is awake. seems html is dead :(
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  667. # [15:00] <Moo^_-> it is not
  668. # [15:00] <Moo^_-> people ask questions
  669. # [15:00] <Moo^_-> people get answers
  670. # [15:01] <Moo^_-> but this is not your average dating channel >_<
  671. # [15:01] <narcarsiss> true, i mean the other html page
  672. # [15:01] <narcarsiss> not html5
  673. # [15:02] <narcarsiss> ok well here is my question.
  674. # [15:03] <narcarsiss> http://jsfiddle.net/guXR6/ im trying to get the orange border to go around the aboutme and twitter feed so i can use js on it. tho the orange bar just stays uptop?
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  677. # [15:05] <narcarsiss> any ideas?
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  683. # [15:13] <Lebannen> narcarsiss: not an HTML5 question, really. Your problem is that you're putting only floated content inside an element, so the element collapses. If you want it to work, clear the floats, or use self-clearing (e.g. via overflow: auto; on #javaframe)
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  686. # [15:15] <narcarsiss> ok that worked :D
  687. # [15:15] <narcarsiss> cheers back to my html5 book i guess, seems im missing steps
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  690. # [15:19] <narcarsiss> nite. thank you for your help
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  767. # [17:13] <larrytek> What in HTML5 replaces php <-> database interactions?
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  770. # [17:18] <hober> …
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  772. # [17:18] <KicStart42> PHP need not apply
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  774. # [17:18] <kayam> you use that sqllite
  775. # [17:18] <kayam> i mean you can
  776. # [17:18] <KicStart42> You can use sqlite or localStorage
  777. # [17:19] <kayam> Sure you then sync sqlite to a server
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  779. # [17:20] <kayam> Sup guys
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  813. # [18:06] <Moo^_-> html5 <video> mp4 player with Flash fallback?
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  815. # [18:07] <solsTiCe> hi. I am using app cache (correct name ?) with a manifest. but i got problem with plusone.js from google. I have put the script in the NETWORK section of my manifest. first time the page is loaded no problem. next time, plusone.js is not loaded. why? is this related to the https ? should I completly remove plusone.js from the manifest ?
  816. # [18:09] <Moo^_-> solsTiCe: my guess would be that maybe google sends some funny HTTP headers related to caching, busting the manifest somehow
  817. # [18:09] <Moo^_-> solsTiCe: but this is just a guess
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  820. # [18:09] <solsTiCe> ah yes. I heard about that. but then why is it not reloaded ?
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  893. # [19:29] <danbeam> Anybody know if there's Flash or plans for Flash on iPad / iPhone? I've heard there won't be, but maybe I'm not as sure...
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  895. # [19:31] <chovy> danbeam: i think they just announced yesterday there will be flash.
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  899. # [19:33] <danbeam> chovy: you sure it's just not Flash *video* ?
  900. # [19:33] <tantek> Anybody know if there's plans for Flash on MacOS that doesn't peg your CPU and fan on a laptop? (It's the only thing that causes the fan to turn on on my late generation maxed out MacBook Air 11")
  901. # [19:33] <danbeam> tantek: yes, yes, we know your argument, Mr. Jobs
  902. # [19:33] <danbeam> tantek: jk jk, but I've heard the same thing before...
  903. # [19:33] <KicStart42> HTML5 is the future, why must laggards still drag their feet with Flash?
  904. # [19:34] * danbeam didn't mean to intentionally start the flame war
  905. # [19:34] <tantek> danbeam, just saying, I'd expect performant Flash for MacOS laptops before it would be considered for lesser powered devices.
  906. # [19:34] <danbeam> tantek: I'd expect to never see that considering Apple's attitude about Flash
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  908. # [19:35] <danbeam> KicStart42, tantek I'm working in completely ES5 / HTML5 / CSS3 right now -- I'm just a proxying a question for a friend
  909. # [19:35] <hober> mumble mumble
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  911. # [19:35] <danbeam> don't actually develop or like Flash
  912. # [19:35] <danbeam> hober: Heh, well it's true, no? You work there!
  913. # [19:35] <tantek> well to be blunt, Jobs isn't CEO any more, and the scientific argument against Flash on iOS devices is performance/battery life based. Hence I see a performant MacOS flash as a necessary (even if not sufficient) prerequisite before it would be even considered for iOS.
  914. # [19:36] <KicStart42> I always thought it was a UI argument, not a performance one.
  915. # [19:36] <KicStart42> Handling clicks vs touches
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  918. # [19:36] <tantek> KicStart42 - there are many arguments. I'm just stating the most scientific one of the set (that I know of).
  919. # [19:36] <danbeam> tantek: again, I'm not a fan of Flash, but how you could make the argument that a pre-compiled binary is less space efficient or battery efficient than ... HTML5?
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  922. # [19:37] <danbeam> tantek: +performant as well
  923. # [19:37] <tantek> danbeam - I have no idea why the precompiled binary of Flash is less efficient than the precompiled binary of Safari. mumble-mumble-open-source-mumble-mumble-browser-competition-mumble-mumble.
  924. # [19:38] <danbeam> tantek: no, but the HTML5/JS/CSS isn't
  925. # [19:38] <tantek> neither is SWF/ActionScript
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  927. # [19:39] <danbeam> it's JIT compiled, no?
  928. # [19:39] <danbeam> and then the plugin acts as your VM?
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  931. # [19:40] <Lebannen> danbeam: modern js engines JIT as well
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  933. # [19:40] <KicStart42> I can only speak from anecdotal evidence. I did a dozen years of Java development. When iOS came out, I did Obj-C for 2, and now I am using JS as a safeharbor from Obj-C. Would I have preferred a JIT setup like Java from the get go? You bet.
  934. # [19:40] <danbeam> Lebannen: true, but this takes longer to parse up front
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  937. # [19:42] <Lebannen> danbeam: I think the underlying point is that even on OS X desktop, HTML5 feels faster than Flash, and causes fewer huge CPU spikes. You could argue people are still doing much less with HTML5, but either way, that probably won't transfer very well to iOS until Adobe demonstrates improved performance and stability on OS X
  938. # [19:43] <danbeam> Lebannen: at the moment, unfortunately I don't agree with your first assumption that "HTML5 feels faster than Flash"
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  940. # [19:43] <Lebannen> danbeam: are you on Windows?
  941. # [19:43] <danbeam> Lebannen: I'm on Windows, Linux, OSX, and ChromeOS
  942. # [19:44] <danbeam> ;)
  943. # [19:44] <Lebannen> danbeam: if you're primarily on Windows, I'd agree with you
  944. # [19:44] <danbeam> and every once and a while, BSD or OpenSolaris
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  951. # [19:49] <danbeam> tantek: http://madebyevan.com/webgl-water/ <-- does that spin up your fan?
  952. # [19:51] <eighty4> danbeam: not at all
  953. # [19:51] <Moo^_-> any way to invert box-shadow?
  954. # [19:51] <Pomax> it has some interesting behaviour when the ball is moved at the same speed as the wavefront it generates
  955. # [19:52] <divya> Moo^_-: inset?
  956. # [19:52] <Pomax> invert?
  957. # [19:52] <Pomax> you mean from soft to hard, the further from the element you get?
  958. # [19:52] <Pomax> or do you mean shading inside the element, or invert its color?
  959. # [19:53] <Moo^_-> Pomax: inside the element, inset style, yes
  960. # [19:53] <Moo^_-> but I think I got it already, thanks
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  963. # [19:56] <Jonta> Validator says <hr /> is not allowed inside <ol>. How best to achieve the same effect?
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  965. # [19:57] <Pomax> create a class with padding-bottom and border-bottom?
  966. # [19:57] <danbeam> Jonta: <li class="hr"></li>
  967. # [19:57] <Jonta> And then pad or margin?
  968. # [19:58] <Jonta> Seems so ugly though
  969. # [19:58] <Pomax> probably a little bit of both, depending on how you want it spacd
  970. # [19:58] <Pomax> hr's are ugly.
  971. # [19:58] <Pomax> if your replication looks the same, your job is done
  972. # [19:58] <Jonta> Aww. Ah well.
  973. # [19:58] <Lebannen> danbeam: that's a bad example as it's all 3d - on my laptop Safari only takes 20% CPU as I'm playing with the ripples, I'd hope Flash 11 does the same :)
  974. # [19:59] <Pomax> if you need hrs inside an ordered list, consider a table
  975. # [19:59] <Jonta> What about a fixed navbar "attached" to a div? Position-wise I mean.
  976. # [19:59] <Jonta> (I know it's more of a CSS-question)
  977. # [19:59] <Jonta> Pomax: Hm, I might. Thanks.
  978. # [20:00] <danbeam> Lebannen: pushes my GPU to 70C and hits an avg. of 60% on my W3690 (6 core CPU)
  979. # [20:00] <danbeam> Lebannen: but I'm not on OSX atm, maybe I should retry there
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  981. # [20:00] <Pomax> the css "position:absolute" command should do the trick.
  982. # [20:01] <Pomax> err, relative, not absolute
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  984. # [20:01] <Jonta> Pomax: Won't achieve the same effect though, but I realise my explanation isn't good enough. Hold on.
  985. # [20:01] <Pomax> combine it with "top: <dim>" and it'll be anchored
  986. # [20:02] <Pomax> but only on initial placement of course. you'll need some javascript magic to update the css if you make the div movable
  987. # [20:02] <danbeam> Lebannen: also, it's a good example because it's all 3d, ;)
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  989. # [20:02] <danbeam> Lebannen: (assuming all the platforms you try it on have GPU compositing for WebGL)
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  993. # [20:06] <Jonta> Damn wm.
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  996. # [20:07] <danbeam> it's also really lagging on Windows with my 12 core Z600 with 12GB of RAM and Quadro FX380, lolol
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  998. # [20:08] <danbeam> but I think an Air should be fine, :P
  999. # [20:08] <Jonta> Pomax: http://jsfiddle.net/X6Xgu/
  1000. # [20:08] <Jonta> The desired effect is to place the navbar right next to the receipe-div
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  1014. # [20:38] <abstraktor> hey guys! I am trying to make a div with overflow-x: scroll and overflow-y: visible but the browsers stop scrolling when I set the overflow-y to visible. Thats no correct behavior, is it?
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  1027. # [20:47] <chovy> abstraktor: url?
  1028. # [20:47] <chovy> jsfiddle.net
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  1034. # [20:53] <abstraktor> sry chovy this is local. By the way I found out, that this combination is just forbidden by w3c
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  1036. # [20:54] <JonathanNeal> 4BIDIN
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  1039. # [20:55] <abstraktor> but thank you for that link that looks interesting. Our work around is now to set the overflow: visible while dragging (this is only necessary for dnd) and set overflow:scroll while not
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  1043. # [20:59] <Pomax> what if you do "overflow: visible; overflow-x: scroll;"?
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  1049. # [21:08] <abstraktor> http://jsfiddle.net/fHPks/ then it just scrolls again
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  1051. # [21:09] <abstraktor> and that workaround was a bad idea as the scrolling gets reset when overflow:scroll changes to overflow:visible
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  1053. # [21:09] <abstraktor> so the position switches immediately to the default location
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  1089. # [21:45] <luc`> hey guys, is there an element I can use for an "entry"
  1090. # [21:45] <luc`> for example, I have a bunch of products on a page, do i use section's for those?
  1091. # [21:45] <miketaylr> sure
  1092. # [21:46] <luc`> ok thanks.
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  1102. # [21:58] <chovy> luc`: i wouldn't use <section> for each product.
  1103. # [21:58] <chovy> I would do a list
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  1105. # [21:58] <chovy> <section id="products"><ol><li><!-- product item --></li></ol></section>
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  1107. # [22:06] <Ms2ger> I think section makes more sense
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  1129. # [22:38] <chovy> so one section tag for each product?
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  1148. # [22:58] <xonecas> o/
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  1151. # [23:02] <JonathanNeal> chovy, why an organized list?
  1152. # [23:02] <JonathanNeal> versus and unorganized list?
  1153. # [23:02] <JonathanNeal> *an
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  1155. # [23:02] <simensen> is shichuan around?
  1156. # [23:04] * Quits: necrodearia (~mizery@unaffiliated/necrodearia) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  1157. # [23:05] <simensen> i've been experiencing some aggressive cache problems with both FireFox and Chrome using the default .htaccess
  1158. # [23:05] <simensen> It looks like the browser isn't even attempting to request the index.html page after it grabs it the first time.
  1159. # [23:10] <Pomax> is it served with no-cache?
  1160. # [23:10] <Pomax> or expiration in the past?
  1161. # [23:10] <simensen> let me double check
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  1163. # [23:12] <simensen> the headers for / ( index.html ) do not include any no-cache or expiration data
  1164. # [23:13] <simensen> it includes a "last modified" and a "date" in the response
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  1167. # [23:15] <simensen> http://screencast.com/t/3tjpDBpPfDhK
  1168. # [23:15] <simensen> Those are the response headers.
  1169. # [23:15] <simensen> My proxy ( charles ) do not show any future requests to / after my browsers gets taht response.
  1170. # [23:15] <simensen> The only request that is made is to default.appcache
  1171. # [23:16] <simensen> even with shift-reload. which i thought should bypass any cache settings.
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  1176. # [23:19] <simensen> i guess i can't figure out what is instructing the browser to not even bother trying to connect again based on those headers. must be something i'm missing.
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  1210. # Session Close: Fri Sep 23 00:00:00 2011

The end :)