/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-10-04 / end

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  68. # [01:18] <chovy> my cache manifest files are showing up in disk cache, not offline cache.
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  71. # [01:20] <chovy> cwqa
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  119. # [01:47] <Pomax> is there a way to force a page update through js so that "save page" results in the current page, after howevermany JS content manipulations, rather than the original page?
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  129. # [02:02] <chovy> Pomax: curious, why would you want that?
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  141. # [02:33] <Pomax> chovy: I have a mahjong score tracking page that is currently PHP based. Per round of play, scores are submitted, the scores are computed, and a new page is generated with which turn you're in, the scores so far, etc.
  142. # [02:33] <Pomax> this lets you save the page when you decide to take a break, and resume the same game whenever you feel like it, but saving the page and then reopening it later.
  143. # [02:34] <Pomax> I'm considering turning it into a JS-only solution, but then saving the page to resume a game later becomes rather problematic, because it'll save the initial page, not the current state.
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  145. # [02:35] <Pomax> s/but/by
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  150. # [02:38] <chovy> Pomax: i would re-architect your game.
  151. # [02:38] <chovy> Use an event-stream from the backend to push the current state of the game.
  152. # [02:38] <chovy> if i understand what you're trying to do.
  153. # [02:38] <Pomax> it's not the game.
  154. # [02:38] <Pomax> it's just the scoring.
  155. # [02:39] <Pomax> you play the game on a table top (shock horror! O_O) but the scoring is complicated, and a web page that tracks it is far easier than pen and paper.
  156. # [02:40] <chovy> i see
  157. # [02:40] <Pomax> if someone wins a hand, you fill in what everyone has, then hit "score" and all the values are sent to the backend, the resulting who-pays-what-to-whom algorithm is run, and a new page is generated with fresh player sheets, and a new line in the "scores so far" list.
  158. # [02:40] <Pomax> (and a button that lets you examine why everyone got the score they got)
  159. # [02:40] <Pomax> doing that in javascript, rather than sending it to the backend, is fairly simple
  160. # [02:41] <Pomax> but doing it in such a way that you can just save the page, because it's getting late and you'll finish the game tomorrow, and then open it again the next day with the same state is hairy
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  162. # [02:42] <chovy> Only Chrome sets navigator.onLine properly when connectivity is lost. Both Safari and Firefox never set the flag to false if you remove the internet connection.
  163. # [02:42] <chovy> any other ways to detect offline/online?
  164. # [02:42] <Pomax> yeah but try sending data to the backend when you don't actually have internet access
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  166. # [02:44] <Pomax> I'd like to move it all to just on-page js, while retaining the benefit of being able to resume the page with whatever browser you want to use. Encoding the history in the page is easy through DOM manipulation, but getting it saved seems impossible
  167. # [02:44] <Pomax> it's like browsers are suck in the era that "page I see" is equal to "the source I loaded"
  168. # [02:44] <Pomax> *Stuck
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  171. # [02:47] <chovy> Pomax: what happens if you reload the page, do you loose all your state?
  172. # [02:47] <chovy> you could do something like this:
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  174. # [02:48] <Pomax> currently? a reload just resubmits the data.
  175. # [02:48] <chovy> $("#save").click(function(e){ var allHtml = $(html).html(); alert(html); };
  176. # [02:48] <chovy> put it in a textarea instead of an alert to let the user copy the source.
  177. # [02:48] <chovy> i'm not sure why anyone would need this though.
  178. # [02:48] <Pomax> that is hardly user friendly
  179. # [02:48] <Pomax> you ever play mahjong?
  180. # [02:48] <Pomax> "it takes hours" is not a joke.
  181. # [02:49] <Pomax> unless I'm playing with regular players, it's pretty common to end the evening not quite done, and just saving the page for resuming some next time.
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  183. # [02:50] <Pomax> copy-pasting source code's not ideal. Although a new document with $(html).html() for saving might work.
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  186. # [02:53] <Pomax> (note, this is for mahjong, not mahjong solitaire puzzle nonsense =)
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  423. # [04:52] <aamironline> We are creating html5 canvas based animation library... We found that firefox is much slower then Opera and Chrome.
  424. # [04:52] <aamironline> Can anyone suggest firefox specific guidelines for improving performance?
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  426. # [04:55] <Pomax> have you profiled it to find out what you're spending the most time in?
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  433. # [05:05] <aamironline> Not yet
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  435. # [05:10] <aamironline> Did just now...
  436. # [05:11] <aamironline> Noticed that while animating clearing canvas takes approximately 50%
  437. # [05:12] <aamironline> Then repainging takes approx 23%
  438. # [05:12] <aamironline> Rest various calculations
  439. # [05:12] <aamironline> pomax: can you please suggest something?
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  442. # [05:14] <Pomax> if 50% is the repaint, I'm not sure there's much I can recommend... you can try using a normal rect vs. clear but I'm not sure that'll be any faster
  443. # [05:15] <Pomax> firefox is inherently slower than chrome and opera in the sense that the framerate is capped at 50 or 60, because "faster than that, and the hardware can't show it anyway"
  444. # [05:15] <Pomax> are you using requestframe?
  445. # [05:16] <Pomax> or just a timeout
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  452. # [05:24] <aamironline> Hmmm
  453. # [05:24] <aamironline> Yeah I am using requestFrame
  454. # [05:25] <aamironline> My test machine doesnt have GPU
  455. # [05:25] <aamironline> I mean saperate GPU
  456. # [05:25] <Pomax> and your animation is at or below 60fps?
  457. # [05:26] <aamironline> I have yet to calculate that....
  458. # [05:27] <aamironline> But I suppose, it is less then that... because in firefox it is literally flickring... while in chrome and opera it is amazingly smooth
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  464. # [05:29] <aamironline> I was not aware that framerate is capped in firefox..
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  466. # [05:37] <Pomax> now I'm not so sure anymore. I read a fairly lengthy mozilla article on limited framerates to only 60 because the screen managers for most OSes can't do more than that anyway. But now I'm not sure if that was in relation to canvas, or webgl.
  467. # [05:37] <Pomax> and I can't find said article anymore now. naturally.
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  472. # [05:52] <aamironline> hmmm
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  498. # [06:56] <ExpFist> Does anyone know in canvas a good accurate way to get the height of text?
  499. # [06:57] <ExpFist> I read rotating a W then getting the width but that adds a ton of overhead if i need to clear/redraw the canvas just to do that for each object in a frame
  500. # [06:57] <ExpFist> There has to be a easier way? :F
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  503. # [07:07] <aamironline> Have you tried context.measureText function?
  504. # [07:08] <ExpFist> Yeah but that only does width, no?
  505. # [07:08] <ExpFist> Which is silly mind you
  506. # [07:09] <aamironline> Oh height sorry...
  507. # [07:10] <aamironline> Check this out, you might get something. http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1134586/how-can-you-find-the-height-of-text-on-an-html-canvas
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  509. # [07:12] <ExpFist> doesn't save() and restore() add a lot of overhead?
  510. # [07:12] <Pomax> expfist, I just wrote a library for that.
  511. # [07:12] <ExpFist> This has to be done about 200-300 times per second
  512. # [07:12] <ExpFist> Oh?
  513. # [07:12] <Pomax> http://pomax.github.com/fontmetrics.js
  514. # [07:13] <Pomax> but as always, it will be wise to cache metrics for reoccurring strings in your own program.
  515. # [07:13] <ExpFist> Yeah problem is I'm allowing for dynamic resizing of text
  516. # [07:14] <Pomax> no worries, track the resize along with the intrinsic heigh.
  517. # [07:14] <Pomax> *height
  518. # [07:15] <Pomax> although if you're using ascii, a simple trick is to compute the heights for a-z and A-Z, then compute height(String) instead as maxHeight(each letter in string)
  519. # [07:16] <Pomax> this will be more efficient for relatively long strings.
  520. # [07:16] <ExpFist> There is no quick way to draw an object then rotate it in an isolated space without affecting the existing context is there?
  521. # [07:16] <Pomax> buffer canvas.
  522. # [07:16] <ExpFist> Is that like a hidden canvas?
  523. # [07:17] <Pomax> pretty much, yes.
  524. # [07:17] <Pomax> but you can also rotate by X, draw text, rotate by -X
  525. # [07:17] <ExpFist> Let me try that again
  526. # [07:18] <ExpFist> I did 180 measure, 180
  527. # [07:18] <ExpFist> And it tripped my animation out
  528. # [07:18] <ExpFist> Hmm why did I do 180
  529. # [07:18] <Pomax> heh
  530. # [07:19] <ExpFist> Much better
  531. # [07:19] <ExpFist> I'm a dumb ass
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  562. # [08:15] <Velmont> Pomax: Save the state in json using webstorage?
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  564. # [08:22] <Pomax> webstorage is browser dependent.
  565. # [08:22] <Pomax> or sorry, internet-dependent
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  574. # [08:35] <mokush> is there a way I could get the cssvalue that an element is transitioning to, before the transition is over?
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  665. # [12:49] <phrearch> hm is that already working? https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/FXTF/raw-file/tip/filters/publish/Filters.html
  666. # [12:49] <phrearch> i mean in chromium nighly
  667. # [12:50] <phrearch> css filters
  668. # [12:50] <Peter-> No
  669. # [12:50] <Peter-> Implementation is starting in WebKit
  670. # [12:50] <Peter-> afaik the parsing stage has been mostly implemented, as is chaining of filters
  671. # [12:50] <Peter-> the actual operations they imply still have to be implemented, though
  672. # [12:51] <Peter-> which is going at a fair speed :)
  673. # [12:51] <phrearch> aha ok, guess my wiki page wipe effect has to wait a while :)
  674. # [12:51] <phrearch> cool stuff
  675. # [12:51] <Peter-> feCustom may take somewhat longer either way
  676. # [12:52] <phrearch> any news on webrtc implementations? sony ericsson doesnt seem to be in a hurry releasing their implemention source
  677. # [12:52] <phrearch> im checking the site now-and-then, but it still says stay tuned :)
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  784. # [17:09] <matjas> what’s the best way to force reload a single cached (HTML) file when you’re using appcache/manifest?
  785. # [17:11] <matjas> you could tweak the manifest file but then it would check *all* files for changes first
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  788. # [17:12] <matjas> is there a way to explicitly say “reload JUST THIS FILE” or smth?
  789. # [17:13] <ddelrio1986> matjas, I think there is a header for that though I don't know if it'll refresh the appcache.
  790. # [17:13] <ddelrio1986> matjas, will the meta refresh tag work for that?
  791. # [17:13] <matjas> ddelrio1986: yeah If-Modified-Since, but I would rather avoid all that
  792. # [17:13] <matjas> ddelrio1986: I’d guess not
  793. # [17:14] <matjas> ddelrio1986: this is a project with a LOT of files; it would be kinda silly to do ~9001 HEAD requests just because a single file changed
  794. # [17:15] <ddelrio1986> matjas, I agree, introduces way too much overhead.
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  796. # [17:17] <ddelrio1986> matjas, Seems like the only way is to modify the manifest file. Search for the second occurrence of the word refresh on this page: http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/appcache/beginner/
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  799. # [17:18] <matjas> ddelrio1986: yeah, that’s what i thought
  800. # [17:18] <matjas> i was wondering if there was some other way, i.e. to inform the browser “ONLY this file changed, reload it plx”
  801. # [17:18] <matjas> i guess not
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  825. # [18:08] <phrearch> hm trying to check for websocket support but ff7 doesnt have WebSocket in the window object
  826. # [18:08] <phrearch> there should be websocket support in ff7 though
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  828. # [18:09] <jetienne_> phrearch: it is prefixed
  829. # [18:09] <jetienne_> phrearch: try MozWebSocket or close
  830. # [18:10] <phrearch> jetienne_: aha thanks. will check that out
  831. # [18:12] <phrearch> ok that works. weird that they renamed it
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  834. # [18:14] <jetienne_> phrearch: it is because the spec isnt yet official
  835. # [18:14] <phrearch> ok, about time that it does then :)
  836. # [18:15] <phrearch> currently hybi10?
  837. # [18:15] <jetienne_> i think so
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  840. # [18:16] <phrearch> hm ff7 is getting quite fast
  841. # [18:16] <phrearch> so far only did most of the testing in chromium
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  843. # [18:17] <phrearch> some weird input bug prevents me from typing anything in input boxes of jquery ui dialogs in ff
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  925. # [20:39] <chovy> phrearch: event
  926. # [20:39] <phrearch> chovy?
  927. # [20:40] <chovy> var source = new EventSource('stream');
  928. # [20:40] <chovy> that's how I conenct to a web socket.
  929. # [20:41] <chovy> http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/eventsource/basics/#toc-introduction-differences
  930. # [20:41] <phrearch> aha, how is that different from MozWebSocket?
  931. # [20:41] <chovy> maybe that is not a websocket.
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  933. # [20:41] <phrearch> ah, no thats serverside events
  934. # [20:42] <phrearch> i guess the browser has its own builtin http server for that
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  936. # [20:42] <phrearch> no need for http with websockets
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  939. # [20:43] <chovy> phrearch: yeah
  940. # [20:43] <chovy> i was wrong.
  941. # [20:43] <chovy> i'll have to play with websockets next.
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  943. # [20:44] <phrearch> if you like python, twisted is a nice lib to get started with the serverside
  944. # [20:44] <phrearch> some like node.js
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  948. # [20:54] <chovy> phrearch: http://html5demos.com/web-socket
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  950. # [20:54] <chovy> does that work for you in FF?
  951. # [20:54] <phrearch> not in ff7
  952. # [20:54] <phrearch> socket closed at least
  953. # [20:54] <chovy> yeah
  954. # [20:54] <chovy> i wonder why.
  955. # [20:54] <chovy> it works in safari
  956. # [20:55] <phrearch> http://hwios.org
  957. # [20:55] <phrearch> this is the thing im working on. should support ff7 and chromium
  958. # [20:55] <phrearch> and safari
  959. # [20:55] <phrearch> its using txwebsocket from twisted
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  961. # [20:57] <chovy> what about socket.io ?
  962. # [20:58] <phrearch> hm, i dont want to have something in between
  963. # [20:58] <phrearch> just raw websockets
  964. # [21:00] <phrearch> in combination with the history api, its quite easy to fake urls
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  966. # [21:03] <chovy> fake urls?
  967. # [21:03] <chovy> i think sockets.io takes a lot of the work out of it and is cross-browser.
  968. # [21:03] <chovy> I haven't used it yet though.
  969. # [21:05] <phrearch> yea may be useful if you care about supporting from ie6 to 10
  970. # [21:05] <phrearch> most company websites do, so it is probably useful for most sites
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  990. # [21:33] <miketaylr> how would you fake a URL with the history API?
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  1044. # [22:51] <chovy> is history api writable?
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  1062. # [23:22] <philihp> chovy, i think you can cut a record to the history by just changing the hashtag
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The end :)