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- # Session Start: Thu Oct 06 00:00:01 2011
- # Session Ident: #html5
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- # [00:15] <thatryan> JonathanNeal: so what happened to pilgrims site? was there a reason he killed it?
- # [00:15] <JonathanNeal> I don't know.
- # [00:15] <JonathanNeal> Well, I know it was shut down, it was intentional, and he wants to be left alone.
- # [00:15] <thatryan> weird
- # [00:17] <tw2113> he kind of committed internet suicide or whatever
- # [00:17] <tw2113> deleted a huge amount of his stuff
- # [00:17] <danielfilho> is he still working for google?
- # [00:17] <thatryan> what does infosuicide even mean
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- # [00:18] <JonathanNeal> it means you kill all of your own info, thatryan
- # [00:19] <JonathanNeal> It is the dilberate self destruction of information by the creator and owner of the information.
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- # [00:26] <tw2113> thatryan it'd be like you went and deleted your facebook, twitter, github, myspace, friendster, yahoo, msn, aol, icq, and all your personal websites
- # [00:26] <tw2113> take yourself off the proverbial grid
- # [00:26] <thatryan> i get it, just dont know why
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- # [00:26] <tw2113> because he made the decision to, and asks that people respect his decision
- # [00:27] <thatryan> yes i understand that
- # [00:27] <tw2113> :D
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- # [00:30] <OzDave_mbp> This Australian alternative to mazuma will offer $405.66 for my iphone4(32gig)
- # [00:30] <OzDave_mbp> http://regadget.com.au/mobile-phones/apple/apple-iphone-4-32gb/
- # [00:31] <OzDave_mbp> that is a shitty price for an immaculate cared for baby
- # [00:33] <OzDave_mbp> no ipad3 or iphone 5 for this christmas, other tablet vendors will have a free christmas run against 4s
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- # [00:37] * tantek discovers http://html5homi.es/
- # [00:38] <tantek> hilarious. JonathanNeal - did you invent the HTML5 gang-sign?
- # [00:38] <JonathanNeal> yes, that is my claim to fame
- # [00:38] <JonathanNeal> inventor of a gang sign
- # [00:38] <JonathanNeal> I'm also silly.
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- # [00:40] <rupl> that's awesome
- # [00:40] <rupl> JonathanNeal++
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- # [00:41] <JonathanNeal> The javascript in me says you should ++JonathanNeal, it's less resource intensive by fractions.
- # [00:42] <rupl> ah yes, but the bot only picks up ++ after the name
- # [00:42] <tw2113> i admittedly don't quite get the html5 gang sign
- # [00:43] <tw2113> i know how to do vi(m) and emac gang signs though
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- # [00:49] <danielfilho> ++JonathanNeal: kudos too. I didn't knew that sign!
- # [00:49] <danielfilho> will make it on conferences and maybe be arrested somewhere! k00l :D
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- # [00:50] <tantek> JonathanNeal - sweet video. Especially the soundtrack. :)
- # [00:51] <tantek> or I should say - goes well with this in the background playing on last.fm: http://www.last.fm/music/Orchestra+Da+Camera+Di+Roma/_/Two+Melodies%3A+The+First+Meeting
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- # [00:54] <JonathanNeal> wait a minute, the background music in that video you just shared
- # [00:54] <JonathanNeal> oh, i meant the comercial beforehand for cherios
- # [00:55] <JonathanNeal> Reminded me of another song I had done @ http://bit.ly/92a25n
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- # [01:29] <aidalgol> How do I centre an element vertically (within its container)?
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- # [01:31] <tantek> aidalgol: http://css-discuss.incutio.com/wiki/Centering_Block_Element#Vertical_Centering
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- # [01:32] <JonathanNeal> Anyone with an iPad or tablet? http://www.diveinto.org/html5/modern.index.html
- # [01:32] <tantek> iPod touch?
- # [01:32] <JonathanNeal> I'll work on getting it iPod friendly right now and then, yes.
- # [01:34] <tantek> ooh that's pretty unfriendly
- # [01:34] <tantek> it's both too wide, and zooming out is disabled!
- # [01:34] <tantek> (either orientation)
- # [01:34] <tantek> (this is a gen 4 iPod Touch with Retina display, so almost the same resolution as iPad)
- # [01:34] * tantek views source
- # [01:35] * tantek just reloaded
- # [01:36] <tantek> hmm… that's odd, reloading fixed it.
- # [01:36] <tantek> ok JonathanNeal, modern.index.html looks/acts reasonable on an iPod touch.
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- # [01:43] <JonathanNeal> tantek: now it's ipod friendly.
- # [01:43] <tantek> verified.
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- # [01:50] <paul_irish> rest in beautifully designed, silver and sleek peace
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- # [02:02] <tw2113> sad thing to hear, but i still haven't ever used my own mac product since a gen3 ipod
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- # [02:09] <thatryan> sad day
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- # [02:16] <aidalgol> OK, that wasn't what I wanted. I have two elements placed side-by-side (by setting display to inline-block); how do I centre them vertically (with respect to each other)?
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- # [02:55] <benschwarz> tantek, JonathanNeal was it not ipod friendly?
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- # [02:56] <JonathanNeal> benschwarz: was what not ipod friendly?
- # [02:56] <JonathanNeal> What I've got @ http://www.diveinto.org/html5/modern.index.html is meant to be extremely desktop / tablet / handheld friendly.
- # [02:57] <JonathanNeal> I used screenshots of books in tablets and on ipads to base it.
- # [02:57] <benschwarz> it looks totally different to before :)
- # [02:57] <benschwarz> but its looking good
- # [02:57] <benschwarz> just wanted to know if there was something I missed
- # [02:57] <benschwarz> I tested the original stylesheets for a range of devices
- # [02:59] <JonathanNeal> Oh on your site? Your site looked beautiuful.
- # [02:59] <JonathanNeal> I'm mostly basing my design off yours.
- # [02:59] <JonathanNeal> It's the original diveintohtml5 that isn't multi-device friendly.
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- # [03:03] <benschwarz> oh ok
- # [03:03] <benschwarz> I really wish I'd gone and converted my stuff to use compass
- # [03:03] <benschwarz> rather than what I quickly hacked together for it
- # [03:03] <benschwarz> buutt whatever, it does the job
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- # [03:07] <JonathanNeal> compas?
- # [03:07] <JonathanNeal> What's that?
- # [03:09] <benschwarz> compass?
- # [03:09] <benschwarz> compass-style.org
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- # [03:19] <benschwarz> JonathanNeal: you removed the search?
- # [03:19] <JonathanNeal> I plan to re-add it.
- # [03:19] <JonathanNeal> I'm not sure how to create the search json object yet.
- # [03:19] <JonathanNeal> I'm still getting a hang for this site.
- # [03:20] <benschwarz> sure.
- # [03:20] <benschwarz> I guess you saw I created it using a ruby script…
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- # [03:24] <JonathanNeal> I am vastly ungifted at several web languages.
- # [03:24] <benschwarz> JonathanNeal: I don't have a lot of bandwidth to offer help right now
- # [03:25] <JonathanNeal> Oh don't worry, I wasn't going to bug you for help.
- # [03:25] <JonathanNeal> :)
- # [03:25] <JonathanNeal> I've got two pages roughly done @ http://www.diveinto.org/html5/modern.index.html and http://www.diveinto.org/html5/modern.introduction.html
- # [03:27] <kaushik_> what is the best ide for developing html5 on ubuntu
- # [03:27] <kaushik_> ?
- # [03:27] <kaushik_> any idea guys ?
- # [03:28] <franksalim> kaushik_: firefox, chrome, and gedit
- # [03:28] <tw2113> woo gedit
- # [03:28] <franksalim> add a terminal, and you have what i call my disintegrated development environment
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- # [04:09] <JonathanNeal> Another blatant update we can do to diveintohtml5 is "Even Microsoft — rarely known for blazing the trail of standards support — will be supporting most HTML5 features in the upcoming Internet Explorer 9."
- # [04:10] <JonathanNeal> should read "has been supporting most HTML5 features since Internet Explorer 9." ?
- # [04:10] <JonathanNeal> is supporting
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- # [04:23] <ExpFist> JonathanNeal actually
- # [04:23] <JonathanNeal> Actually?
- # [04:23] <ExpFist> IE 9 is far far faster than firefox for HTML5/Canvas
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- # [04:24] <ExpFist> That and you can copy from the build in firebug logs so I use it for debugging most of the time, which is saying a lot if you knew me
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- # [04:27] <JonathanNeal> I'm confused.
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- # [05:00] <kaushik_> if i am not make it very awkward , may i know if we can make very rich animation based websites .like A
- # [05:00] <kaushik_> Flash website
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- # [08:03] <Epeli> Is there a way to read mouse position on top of canvas? And I mean read. The mousemove-event won't do, because I need to read it more often than it fires
- # [08:08] <moo-_-> unfortunately I believe mouse events are the only way how mouse is currently being exposed in the browsers
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- # [08:24] <Epeli> It seems that way :/
- # [08:24] <Epeli> maybe we'll have to just live with it.
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- # [08:27] <ryanseddon> wow IE9 mobile has crazy good canvas support http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfYeoR3Ug4E
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- # [08:36] <JohnnyL> Can you have daemons running on the client if you change web pages?
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- # [08:40] <eighty4> JohnnyL: daemons running?
- # [08:42] <jetienne_> JohnnyL: chrome got somethin called background page
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- # [08:42] <jetienne_> JohnnyL: but nothing in the standard
- # [08:42] <moo-_-> Epeli: you can always use Flash :)
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- # [08:43] <jetienne_> Epeli: why do you need more mousemove events ?
- # [08:44] <JohnnyL> jetienne ok. thanks
- # [08:44] <Epeli> jetienne_: doing a drawing application. I'd like to draw smoother lines.
- # [08:44] <Epeli> moo-_-: funny :)
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- # [08:49] <JohnnyL> jetienne: how about revisting a page, then uploading the data because the server is now 'ready'?
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- # [08:53] <jetienne_> JohnnyL: i dont understand. can you elaborate
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- # [08:59] <JohnnyL> jetienne: i'd like to store data in the web browser(minus clear cache) and upload when the server is ready, or when I visit the site again.
- # [08:59] <JohnnyL> believe this is a html5 thingie
- # [08:59] <jetienne_> JohnnyL: put them in localStorage
- # [09:00] <jetienne_> JohnnyL: this is place to store data between page load
- # [09:00] <jetienne_> JohnnyL: upload the content when the site is visited again.
- # [09:00] <tw2113> just realized who you were jetienne_
- # [09:00] <JohnnyL> jetienne: ok thanks
- # [09:01] <jetienne_> http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/offline/storage/ JohnnyL may be of interest
- # [09:01] <jetienne_> tw2113: ah ? :)
- # [09:01] <tw2113> twitter follower plus I use your QR jquery plugin on my resume site
- # [09:03] <jetienne_> tw2113: cool:) btw jquery-qrcode got updated recently. one can display on <table> and generate qrcode for string 4000+ char now
- # [09:03] <tw2113> hey, nice
- # [09:04] <tw2113> not sure i need 4000 characters, but i do use it to link to a vcf file and the root domain so people can easily get the site loaded on their phone
- # [09:07] <jetienne_> some people put lots of data in qrcode. not sure why. personnaly i put only super simple url in it :)
- # [09:07] <tw2113> well, with Nanowrimo coming up...
- # [09:07] <tw2113> that would prove an interesting way to present your story
- # [09:07] <tw2113> a wall-o-qr
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- # [09:10] <JohnnyL> jetienne: thanks
- # [09:13] <josefrichter> anyone worked with microdata please? any way to combine Product and Book vocabularies?
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- # [09:15] <tantek> josefrichter - what's the page you're trying to mark up?
- # [09:15] <josefrichter> tantek http://josefrichter.com/motorpresse/produit.html
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- # [09:16] <josefrichter> tantek I know how to nest Offer into Product, but don't know how and where to nest Book
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- # [09:16] <josefrichter> tantek maybe I should use Book and nest Offer and forget about Product?
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- # [09:21] <josefrichter> tantek any ideas?
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- # [09:39] <aidalgol> Why are the <div class="caption"> elements on this page all of slightly different width, and how can I make then all vertically aligned (conceptually)?
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- # [09:40] <kollapse> Hello there.
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- # [09:42] <kollapse> I'm looking for a free SSL certificate that I can use. Anyone here used startssl ? (http://startssl.com/)
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- # [10:01] <moo-_-> ireland must be a sad land to be a web developer
- # [10:01] <moo-_-> kollapse: you can use self-signed certificates for free
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- # [10:03] <kollapse> moo-_-: Without using a certificate provider ?
- # [10:03] <moo-_-> kollapse: yes
- # [10:03] <moo-_-> you get this ugly red warning message when going to the site for the first time
- # [10:04] <moo-_-> but you can create certs yourself
- # [10:04] <kollapse> moo-_-: Yes well I'm not looking for that big red screen. :)
- # [10:04] <moo-_-> kollapse: then I suggest you need to get some pennies together :(
- # [10:04] <moo-_-> I think cheapest certificates I have seen where 60 USD / year
- # [10:04] <kollapse> Well I see that SSL cert in that link is free.
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- # [10:05] <kollapse> Though I'm a little unsure whether I should give my personal details or not. I want to remain as anonymous as possible.
- # [10:05] <jetienne_> 60usd/year for less than second of cpu, and 1k of storage
- # [10:06] <f0f> anonymity is important, my friend pays for anonymous domain registration for his eponymous site
- # [10:06] <moo-_-> kollapse: SSL is also to check your identity
- # [10:06] <moo-_-> how there can be trust if I don't know who you are?
- # [10:07] * moo-_- would not wonder if any free SSL provider will end up to a blacklist in any point of time
- # [10:07] <kollapse> Well I'm only looking into SSL for connection encryption, as in the technical part.
- # [10:07] <kollapse> To prevent eavesdropping.
- # [10:08] <moo-_-> kollapse: then self-signed is as good as any
- # [10:08] <moo-_-> :)
- # [10:08] <kollapse> Ok then. 32 768 bit RSA key, here I come.
- # [10:09] * kollapse jokes, obviously.
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- # [10:11] <EMKO> I wonder how they will secure SSL in the future when quantum computers will crack them
- # [10:11] <Kichael> with quantum encryption
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- # [10:13] <EMKO> Hmm I wonder if the one they are selling can break anything?
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- # [10:16] <EMKO> The 128 cubit proccessor
- # [10:16] <EMKO> Qubit
- # [10:17] <kollapse> Is there no way to make a valid self-signed SSL cert ? As in not have that giant red screen tear away at my retina ?
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- # [10:18] <EMKO> Doesn't mozzila have to add the cert
- # [10:18] <EMKO> Like when those fake cert where removed
- # [10:21] <EMKO> I think you have to buy one that browsers say are valid
- # [10:21] <kollapse> This browser policy is stupid if you ask me. There's no big red screen when you submit sensitive data via classic no SSL HTTP yet you do get one when using a self-signed SSL cert. It's like they are completely ignoring the issue of encryption.
- # [10:21] <moo-_-> kollapse: it is
- # [10:21] <moo-_-> SSL handles both trust and encryption
- # [10:21] <moo-_-> there is no model for encryption only
- # [10:21] <kollapse> Unfortunately... :/
- # [10:22] <EMKO> Its safer this way
- # [10:22] <moo-_-> it is
- # [10:22] <moo-_-> because otherwise DNS spoofing would enable man-in-the-middle attacks
- # [10:22] <kollapse> Just looks like another marketing strategy to rip off cash from the users. VeriSign comes into mind.
- # [10:22] <moo-_-> giving SSL cert is not enough because without verification chain you cannot know if it's real thing
- # [10:23] <moo-_-> that's why losing those google.com etc. certs was a big deal
- # [10:23] <EMKO> Look at that company that got hacked
- # [10:24] <EMKO> And hackers made certs and with this they listens in on Iran's Gmail accounts 300000 of them
- # [10:25] <EMKO> So browsers right away removed them
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- # [11:23] <simenbrekken> I'm looking for a :before/:after IE7 polyfill, any pointers?
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- # [11:33] <moo-_-> simenbrekken: should such thing exist in poor IE7?
- # [11:35] <budmaddock> diveintohtml5.org is no longer hosted.
- # [11:35] <simenbrekken> moo-_-: i'm not looking for an analysis of what IE7 should have, I'm looking for a polyfill,.
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- # [12:01] <budmaddock> simenbrekken: github.com/Modernizr/Modernizr/wiki/HTML5-Cross-browser-Polyfills might have what you need.
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- # [12:12] <ThePeach> lo all
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- # [12:42] <budmaddock> Been working on these damn web pages
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- # [12:53] <jetienne> paul_irish: what is the status of source mapping in chrome debugger ? is that implemented already ?
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- # [13:37] <Epeli> Does Android devices usually show JS exceptions in adb console?
- # [13:37] <Epeli> when using the stock browser
- # [13:38] <Epeli> because my HTC Desire Z does no
- # [13:38] <Epeli> not
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- # [13:40] <Epeli> I'd need know which tablets show those
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- # [14:57] <Epeli> Was there a reason why func.apply(somthing, arguments); should no be used?
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- # [15:12] <kollapse> Anyone have any idea which one of these is the best ? RSA, DES, Triple DES, AES.
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- # [15:12] <jetienne> kollapse: use a security standard.
- # [15:13] <jetienne> kollapse: and even better a security lib. you should not do it yourself. it it way too easy to shoot yourself in the foot
- # [15:15] <kollapse> jetienne: Of course, I'm using OpenSSL. I need to generate a private key though I don't know which cipher I should use.
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- # [15:16] <jetienne> kollapse: ah ok. rsa/aes then
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- # [15:22] <memoryleak> rsa-keygen -t rsa is what I use
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- # [16:14] <paul_irish> jetienne: i havent seen taht souce mapping ticket move forward lately, nah :(
- # [16:15] <jetienne> paul_irish: ok. too bad indeed
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- # [16:21] <nabax> hi
- # [16:21] <nabax> is there something faster than getImageData to retrieve the color of a pixel?
- # [16:22] <nabax> in a canvas I mean
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- # [17:56] <rupl> If anyone wants to talk future friendly stuff, we started a new channel at #ffly
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- # [18:20] <ddelrio1986> rupl, what exactly is future friendly stuff?
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- # [18:20] <rupl> ddelrio1986: in a nutshell, it's the notion that the web will become much more diverse as it grows, and we need to keep this in mind as we develop and design
- # [18:20] <rupl> ddelrio1986: http://futurefriend.ly
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- # [19:13] <trumpetmic> what are you using now to get box-shadows in ie? something like cssFx or cssPie?
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- # [19:37] <Pomax> IE9.
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- # [20:25] <JonathanNeal> Good afternoon.
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- # [20:39] <danielfilho> hey :)
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- # [20:45] <ddelrio1986> trumpetmic, I also would use IE9 for box-shadow though I believe there are many XP stragglers still out there and I think the newest IE that XP supports is 8 so I just usually keep in mind that on XP there won't be a box-shadow and if it is SUPER IMPORTANT (not sure why it would be) to have the box-shadow in old IE versions then use a graphic (it feels dirty actually saying that).
- # [20:46] <Pomax> on XP I would use firefox as solution.
- # [20:46] <Pomax> which doesn't require installing.
- # [20:47] <ddelrio1986> Pomax, it would be great if we could dictate what our users should use but that brings the web back to the days of having footers on pages which state (this page is best used with IE5 on 800x600 and if you don't meet that then you're screwed).
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- # [20:52] <Pomax> oh it's very simple. for intranet pages in a "we only support some IE below 9" you don't bother with CSS3
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- # [20:53] <Pomax> for everything else, upgrading *is* an option
- # [20:53] <ddelrio1986> Yeah, Intranet is great. I love having that kind of control.
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- # [20:54] <ddelrio1986> I say we just force our user's to install a Linux distro of their choice and run either Chrome or FF then. XD
- # [20:55] <ddelrio1986> Any other FF users in here?
- # [20:55] <ddelrio1986> How long has the sync feature not been working for you guys?
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- # [21:07] <JonathanNeal> Oi!
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- # [21:08] <JonathanNeal> does mislav come in here?
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- # [21:26] <amid_hasan> can someone tell me how to extract the city, state or city or state based on html5 geolocation?
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- # [21:29] <miketaylr> amid_hasan: stick the latitude and longitude values that geolocation returns into some kind of reverse geocoding service
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- # [21:29] <tw2113> like yql
- # [21:30] <tw2113> :D
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- # [21:31] <Pomax> http://merged.ca/iphone/html5-geolocation for a pretty simple example with working code
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- # [21:32] <amid_hasan> Pomax: i'm not on iphone
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- # [21:32] <amid_hasan> Pomax: should this work on any html5 browser/
- # [21:32] <amid_hasan> ?
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- # [21:35] <tw2113> amid_hasan as long as you can get the lat/long coordinates, you can use some other service to return the city/state info
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- # [21:42] <amid_hasan> tw2113: any ideas which service can return the city state only out of the coordinates?
- # [21:43] <tw2113> yql geoplacemaker
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- # [21:44] <amid_hasan> tw2113: can google maps api return it as well?
- # [21:44] <tw2113> probably
- # [21:45] <tw2113> i'd be really surprised if google maps couldn't utilize lat/long coords
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- # [21:46] <amid_hasan> tw2113: i'm positive i can get google maps to put a marker on a map based on the coords, however, the data sent to their maps api is solely lat,lng
- # [21:47] <niftylettuce_> look what some dude made... http://theiloveshirt.com
- # [21:47] <niftylettuce_> what a crazy dude
- # [21:48] <amid_hasan> nitylettuce_: yeah totally useless
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- # [21:51] <tw2113> http://developer.yahoo.com/maps/rest/V1/geocode.html
- # [21:51] <tw2113> maybe
- # [21:51] <Pomax> amid_hasan: the link says iphone. the content has nothing to do with "iphone".
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- # [21:52] <tw2113> http://code.google.com/apis/maps/documentation/javascript/services.html#ReverseGeocoding
- # [21:55] <amid_hasan> tw2113: thank you for the resource
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- # [22:27] <Wilto> Hey, is <meter> still pretty much locked down in Chrome, styling-wise?
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- # [22:31] <Wilto> Whoop, yeah, -webkit-appearance—my bad.
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- # [22:44] <Cacheaway> Hello. Using the build scripts for the first time and my multiple js files aren't getting concatenated into the one main stripped file.
- # [22:45] <Cacheaway> Sorry, this is for boilerplate
- # [22:45] <Cacheaway> The build script IS removing the script tags from the index file and replacing them with one script tag which points to a concatenated script, but that concatenated script doesn't include the programming from the files whose script tags were removed
- # [22:45] <Cacheaway> so the build script is finding them, and removing their tags, but it is not putting them into the concatenation. is there a config value that I'm not aware of?
- # [22:45] <divya> Cacheaway: weird
- # [22:45] <divya> looking
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- # [22:48] <manuchill> divya, all set for tomorrow @ fronteers?
- # [22:48] <divya> manuchill: hope so!
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- # [22:49] <manuchill> divya, lol, looking forward to it
- # [22:49] <divya> manuchill: o cool :)
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- # [23:00] <Cacheaway> do my files need to be in /js/mylibs?
- # [23:02] <divya> yes Cacheaway
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- # [23:07] <chovy> fronteers?
- # [23:08] <manuchill> divya, good luck tomorrow, i'm sure you'll do great
- # [23:08] <divya> thnx manuchill
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- # [23:36] <JonathanNeal> This is probably the most important commit of my life https://github.com/jonathantneal/diveintohtml5/commit/deff3413935450c7fc54a2433999ddfdfccc8117
- # [23:36] <socialhapy> ★ Commit on diveintohtml5 by jonathantneal (53.051s ago): Typo where "imbrella" should have been "umbrella"
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- # [23:40] <tw2113> no wonder what that rumble was johnkpaul
- # [23:40] <tw2113> er JonathanNeal
- # [23:41] <JonathanNeal> :)
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- # Session Close: Fri Oct 07 00:00:00 2011
The end :)