/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-10-12 / end

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# Session Start: Wed Oct 12 00:00:00 2011
# Session Ident: #html5
# [00:00] <tw2113> by default
# [00:00] <taylorRichie> THank you thank you :D
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# [00:03] <moo-_-> paul_irish: any pointer for Platform.js - search gives crappy options
# [00:03] <paul_irish> ?g github bestiejs platform.js
# [00:03] <bot-t> paul_irish, bestiejs's Profile - GitHub - https://github.com/bestiejs
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# [00:09] * moo-_- read it as best-IE-js
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# [00:35] <taylorRichie> I need some help… I know I suck… http://jsfiddle.net/36aag/ So you can see I'm using the boilerplate image replacement class, but now my nav overlaps the image… floats over the top instead of stays to the side. Which is fine, however, if I adjust nav by doing something like left:150px, then it looks good in all browsers except MSIE 7, which didn't overlap the image to begin with.
# [00:36] <taylorRichie> and I'm aware the css is very dirty. I've just been adding and removing parameters just to see how they react in browser.
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# [00:38] <taylorRichie> And also my sub nav isn't falling back if java isn't supported… :( Grr..
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# [00:45] <Noodman> What is a good way of resizing a photo?
# [00:45] <Noodman> e.g. when your profile pic reduced to a thumbnail
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# [00:45] <Noodman> in html5*
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# [00:47] <freshmilk> good quiestion
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# [00:51] <Noodman> I'm looking to build a website
# [00:51] <Noodman> although what I want is quite complex
# [00:52] <Noodman> what's is a good book/reference to aid me?
# [00:52] <freshmilk> lol
# [00:52] <taylorRichie> Head first into HTML5?
# [00:52] <Noodman> yeah
# [00:52] <Noodman> I have quite a bit of programming experience
# [00:52] <Noodman> but no web dev
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# [00:54] <Noodman> Obviously google is my friend
# [00:54] <Noodman> but i need a reference
# [00:54] <Noodman> to get me started
# [00:54] <Noodman> any thoughts?
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# [00:56] <YamahaAlex37> with what Noodman
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# [00:57] <taylorRichie> The full "A Book Apart" series is good as well.
# [00:59] <freshmilk> lol
# [00:59] <freshmilk> noodman
# [01:00] <freshmilk> i do have an excellent book
# [01:00] <freshmilk> i just bought it cause i was in your boat
# [01:00] <freshmilk> you can get it on amazon or download it to kindle or ur mac kindle
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# [01:01] <freshmilk> Introducing HTML5, ePub (Voices That Matter)
# [01:01] <freshmilk> Lawson, Bruce, Sharp, Remy
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# [01:06] <taylorRichie> Quick question on your guys' navigation… If you have a company logo, that links to index, and you omit "Home" from your navigation, do you guys have the logo as part of your nav list? ie <nav><ul><li><img src="logo.jpg" /></li><li>next item</li></ul></nav>
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# [01:07] <taylorRichie> My file is setup with the logo being an <h1><a href>Text to be replaced by logo</a></h1> then I begin the nav.
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# [01:09] <tw2113> for me the logo link is part of the header but not the navigation list
# [01:12] <freshmilk> how much do top coders make?
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# [01:16] <taylorRichie> @tw2113 that's how I've always treated it as well… Thanks!
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# [01:28] <paul_irish> freshmilk: a bunch
# [01:29] <paul_irish> also HTML5 Trainers are in HUGE demand right now
# [01:29] <YamahaAlex37> trainers?
# [01:29] <paul_irish> i get requests all the time. so.. just sayin.
# [01:29] <paul_irish> yeah.. to run workshops and training for companies trying to ramp up on this
# [01:30] <freshmilk> lol
# [01:30] <freshmilk> html5 is not difficult
# [01:30] <freshmilk> its the same
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# [01:30] <freshmilk> the only difference
# [01:30] <YamahaAlex37> is text-shadow the only way to get border around text?
# [01:30] <freshmilk> is basically the canvas element
# [01:30] <freshmilk> which u can do cool stuff on
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# [01:32] <tw2113> ?g text outline css3
# [01:32] <bot-t> tw2113, Adding An Outline To Your Text Using the CSS3 text-stroke Property ... - http://www.cardeo.ca/2010/adding-an-outline-to-your-text-using-the-css3-text-stroke-property
# [01:32] <tw2113> freshmilk there's more than just canvas
# [01:32] <tw2113> at least if we're talking the lump sum "html5" veil that people seem to use
# [01:33] <freshmilk> tw2113, like what
# [01:33] <freshmilk> canvas and websockets
# [01:33] <freshmilk> thats all
# [01:33] <freshmilk> everything else is trivial
# [01:33] <tw2113> trivial to who
# [01:33] <YamahaAlex37> canvas and websockets is future
# [01:34] <YamahaAlex37> and webgl
# [01:34] <tw2113> everyone has different levels of knowledge/experience
# [01:34] <tw2113> which is why there is need for these education courses
# [01:34] <taylorRichie> local storage
# [01:34] <freshmilk> webgl is no html5
# [01:34] <freshmilk> audio api
# [01:34] <tw2113> see " at least if we're talking the lump sum "html5" veil that people seem to use"
# [01:35] <tw2113> all the different js api's and whatnot that get called "html5"
# [01:35] <YamahaAlex37> webgl is thanks to html5
# [01:35] <YamahaAlex37> and hopefully we will see nextgen game in browser someday thanks to is
# [01:35] <YamahaAlex37> it
# [01:36] <freshmilk> no it isnt it has been around for a while
# [01:36] <YamahaAlex37> oh i thought it was only possible using canvas...
# [01:36] <freshmilk> js api's like what tw2113? three.js?
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# [01:36] <tw2113> no that'd be a library
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# [01:38] <tw2113> web storage, offline app cache, web workers, web sockets, geolocation, audio/video manipulation, canvas
# [01:38] <tw2113> stuff like that
# [01:39] <freshmilk> blah
# [01:39] <freshmilk> yeah thats basic stuff
# [01:39] <tw2113> to you maybe
# [01:39] <tw2113> not to everyone
# [01:40] <freshmilk> i mean i do want to know more about the audio api
# [01:40] <freshmilk> canvas is also hard
# [01:41] <freshmilk> yeah
# [01:41] <freshmilk> i want to get good at it
# [01:41] <freshmilk> the graphics stuff are crazy
# [01:42] <freshmilk> in three.js
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# [01:55] <paul_irish> freshmilk: we're about to publish a guide to audio api on html5rocks.com
# [01:55] <freshmilk> paul_irish, awesome man
# [01:55] <freshmilk> i'll check it out
# [01:55] <freshmilk> i love html5rocks
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# [01:56] <paul_irish> :)
# [01:56] <paul_irish> davidwalsh: nice post
# [01:58] <davidwalsh> Nice stylesheet
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# [01:58] <paul_irish> thxx
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# [01:58] <paul_irish> next do one on the htaccess
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# [02:00] <davidwalsh> Now you're just getting cocky
# [02:00] <davidwalsh> :p
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# [02:01] <davidwalsh> Whoa, that's a huge .htaccess file
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# [02:08] <freshmilk> can someone tell me what OpenGL is and WebGL and hwo that relates to HTML5?
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# [02:16] <paul_irish> davidwalsh: huge and dripping with goodness
# [02:16] <paul_irish> we can afford to make it big since its not clientside
# [02:17] <paul_irish> so we went heavy with documentation and whitespace etc
# [02:17] <paul_irish> and optional shit
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# [02:59] <Grognardian> anyone know good graphic design channels?
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# [03:14] <niftylettuce_> Grognardian: #opengameart
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# [03:20] <niftylettuce_> freshmilk: ask in #webgl
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# [03:21] <niftylettuce_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebGL
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# Session Close: Wed Oct 12 04:14:52 2011
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# Session Start: Wed Oct 12 04:14:52 2011
# Session Ident: #html5
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# [04:17] * Topic is 'Ask any question about HTML5 & Friends || HTML5 Spec for Developers: http://developers.whatwg.org || Also: http://html5rocks.com http://diveintohtml5.org http://mzl.la/9giLwR || Channel logs: http://j.mp/cG7UDa'
# [04:17] * Set by marienz!~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz on Wed Aug 10 22:18:05
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# [04:28] <Grognardian> does anyone know an html or js player with audio visualization?
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# [04:30] <paul_irish> ?g jacob seidlen winamp
# [04:31] <Grognardian> that will work in browser?
# [04:31] <Grognardian> on a website?
# [04:32] <paul_irish> http://blog.nihilogic.dk/2009/03/javascript-canvas-sm2-milkdrop.html
# [04:32] <Grognardian> thanks
# [04:33] <Grognardian> maybe ill just use flash...
# [04:33] <tw2113> eww
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# [04:34] <Grognardian> i dont see a better alternative
# [04:34] <tw2113> sorry, default reaction
# [04:34] <Grognardian> i need a really clean white background audio visualization
# [04:35] <Grognardian> like a hearbeat monitor
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# [04:35] <Grognardian> but i want it to span across top like a banner
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# [04:38] <OzDave_mbp> what is that element for? purely visual or core to the workings?
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# [04:39] <Grognardian> just visual
# [04:39] <Grognardian> well it need to go with the song playing of course
# [04:39] <tiglionabbit> How do you handle a <video> tag on the server side?
# [04:39] <Grognardian> and the player will be smaller in the corner with previous and next
# [04:39] <tiglionabbit> is there a document about this I can read somewhere?
# [04:39] <OzDave_mbp> so a spectrum analyser?
# [04:39] <OzDave_mbp> http://0xfe.muthanna.com/wavebox/
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# [04:40] <OzDave_mbp> http://0xfe.blogspot.com/2011/08/web-audio-spectrum-analyzer.html
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# [04:40] <Grognardian> OzDave_mbp, they all seem to be for newer browsers :/
# [04:40] <tiglionabbit> When I put a video tag on the page, chrome does three different web requests, then immediately cancels two of them. One of the canceled ones has a range header in it. I was wondering how my server is supposed to respond to these requests to implement seek properly
# [04:41] <Grognardian> im not a flash fan, but ill probably use flash for now for cross browser
# [04:41] <OzDave_mbp> Grognardian you might need to get your hands dirty
# [04:41] <Grognardian> yeah haha
# [04:41] <OzDave_mbp> :)
# [04:41] <Grognardian> thats why ill probably do flash for now
# [04:41] <OzDave_mbp> no ipad, no iphone and no airbooks whos owners havent installed
# [04:42] <Grognardian> this page will have a different mobile version
# [04:42] <Grognardian> but do ipads render mobile versions or normal page?
# [04:42] <tiglionabbit> normal
# [04:43] <tiglionabbit> just like iphone
# [04:43] <tiglionabbit> might trigger mobile stylesheets though
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# [04:43] <Grognardian> those trendy bundle of sticks with their ipads... they will probably have flash
# [04:43] <Grognardian> besides, it seems flash will cover more browsers than html 5 for sure
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# [04:44] <OzDave_mbp> you can make your own little server that will convert flash to mp4 or avi etc and watch them on your device, the two systems Wallaby and the other one are not up to par with converting SWF/FLA to HTML5/CSS/JS yet
# [04:44] <tiglionabbit> Some guys at an html5 convention were talking about this thing if you need flash to work on an ipad http://spaceport.io/
# [04:45] <Grognardian> more trouble than this site is worth
# [04:45] <OzDave_mbp> yeah same principles as adding to your own home server
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# [04:45] <tw2113> ?g vid.ly > tiglionabbit
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# [04:45] <tw2113> bah, no bot
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# [04:46] <tw2113> http://vid.ly/
# [04:46] <tiglionabbit> uh what's this vidly thing?
# [04:46] <OzDave_mbp> yup another similar service
# [04:47] <tiglionabbit> I want to understand how to respond to range requests and such
# [04:47] <OzDave_mbp> You would want to send a higher uncompressed file for best results as converting a compressed file can produce irregular moments of pixelation
# [04:47] <tw2113> i was pointing to it for "universal video serving"
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# [04:48] <tw2113> just as an option
# [04:48] <OzDave_mbp> Apple Compressor does a great job once you set it up and since my upload speed is barely a meg I save hours
# [04:50] <ExpFist> I've spen the past few weeks fiddling with HTML5
# [04:50] <OzDave_mbp> animation codec is close enough to raw - then do all conversions from there
# [04:50] <ExpFist> I can say quite comfortably now that flash is much better for animations right now
# [04:51] <ExpFist> HTML5 is slow, not well standardized across browsers, and requires JS to control
# [04:51] <OzDave_mbp> It depends on the animation
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# [04:51] <OzDave_mbp> A 3d render in a video will be better in a movie container where as a vector line art animation could be flash or some keyframes in css/js
# [04:51] <ExpFist> The fact that timings rely on things like setTimeout which is completely inaccurate is really bad
# [04:51] <OzDave_mbp> IT really depends on the actual animation at hand
# [04:52] <ExpFist> Yeah I'm not talking 3d I guess
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# [04:52] <OzDave_mbp> There is no golden rule expect for " does it work and does it look good "
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# [04:52] <ExpFist> So many issues that require some messy hacks
# [04:52] <tw2113> flash has also had a good decade of development ahead of html5
# [04:52] <ExpFist> Even audio loops don't work properly
# [04:52] <ExpFist> Either they don't loop, or when they do there is a pause
# [04:52] <tw2113> give the browsers time
# [04:53] <OzDave_mbp> If the looping file is comressed like a mp3 then there might be a loop delay
# [04:53] <ExpFist> ogg as well
# [04:53] <OzDave_mbp> That happens in other game dev languages
# [04:53] <OzDave_mbp> You can reduce the size into loops and make your own mod style playing different little loops over each other
# [04:54] <OzDave_mbp> mods iirc from ages ago
# [04:54] <ExpFist> Yeah I made two sound objects that were the same, one would fire 0.2 seconds before the other finished
# [04:54] <ExpFist> Ended up creating a seemless loop
# [04:54] <OzDave_mbp> nods
# [04:54] <ExpFist> Still an ugly hack though
# [04:54] <OzDave_mbp> "it works"
# [04:55] <OzDave_mbp> the punter and client are happy
# [04:55] <ExpFist> Yeah but metro apple users when given the choice at the moment, it's obvious
# [04:55] <OzDave_mbp> did you use sound manager2?
# [04:56] <OzDave_mbp> http://www.schillmania.com/projects/soundmanager2/
# [04:56] <ExpFist> No, but that relies on 'flash' as a fallback
# [04:56] <ExpFist> Which defeats the purpose
# [04:56] <OzDave_mbp> There was a group of flash users who use flash like a modtracker
# [04:56] <OzDave_mbp> perhaps we will see something for the next JS generation
# [04:57] <ExpFist> I'm sure it will get better
# [04:57] <ExpFist> http://OzDave.You.Are.Mighty.Aninote.com/html5
# [04:57] <ExpFist> That's my final product
# [04:57] <OzDave_mbp> a black screen ;)
# [04:58] <ExpFist> Safari? :F
# [04:58] <OzDave_mbp> bbl
# [04:59] <OzDave_mbp> ahh got it on firesocks brb gotta skype this client
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# [06:44] <Grognardian> who can think of the easiest way to make a page render on each side of cube? =D
# [06:44] <Grognardian> <Grognardian> file:///C:/Users/Alex/Desktop/mrdoob-three.js-r45-1-g44730f9/mrdoob-three.js-44730f9/examples/canvas_geometry_cube.html
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# [08:26] <Grognardian> does ie9 support webgl
# [08:27] <jetienne> Grognardian: no
# [08:27] <Grognardian> thx
# [08:27] <Grognardian> do you think they are going to unintentially implement it in the future?
# [08:28] <jetienne> unintentially implement it ? :)
# [08:28] <Grognardian> haha
# [08:28] <Grognardian> are they going to intentially unimplement it...? :D
# [08:28] <shwetank> "oops, just implemented webgl, oh well"
# [08:29] <Grognardian> hahahaha
# [08:29] <jetienne> well they made no announcement
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# [08:37] <paul_irish> it wont be in ie10
# [08:37] <paul_irish> ie11 is still a mystery
# [08:37] <paul_irish> it's possible
# [08:37] <paul_irish> especially if css shaders gain traction
# [08:38] <jetienne> paul_irish: oh!!
# [08:38] <jetienne> i would jump on spot for a full hour if they do :)
# [08:39] <jetienne> their win8 metro with no plugin is strange too. i mean how can they do that
# [08:39] <jetienne> no flash ads, no 3D at all (if they dont do webgl)
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# [08:44] <Grognardian> oh shit webgl wont even be in ie10 paul_irish
# [08:44] <Grognardian> wtf
# [08:44] <divya> webGL aint easy to implement
# [08:44] <divya> #js
# [08:44] <Grognardian> didnt ie9 just come out, how do you know?
# [08:44] <paul_irish> i know lots.
# [08:44] <OzDave_mbp> isnt there a security issue with access to the power of the video card with opengl at the moment?
# [08:45] <paul_irish> mmmmm is there?
# [08:45] <paul_irish> you watching the kronos list?
# [08:45] <OzDave_mbp> It was noted a few months back
# [08:45] <OzDave_mbp> not watching it
# [08:45] <OzDave_mbp> http://www.contextis.com/research/blog/webgl2/
# [08:47] <paul_irish> basically both chrome and moz webgl engineers hopped on that issue immediately
# [08:47] <paul_irish> i'd be surprised if you can still get a repro
# [08:48] <paul_irish> but i dont have a ref to the bug #s for it atm
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# [08:49] <OzDave_mbp> np
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# [09:49] <moo-_-> good morning
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# [10:35] <Thomas_> anyone had the problem of a jquery datepicker not showing properly?
# [10:36] <Thomas_> it should pop up at input focus
# [10:36] <Thomas_> it's there, it has the calendar in it (in the source code), but it's like it's hidden behind everything
# [10:36] <Thomas_> increasing the z-index doesn't solve the problem
# [10:36] <Thomas_> had this problem before but can't remember the solution ..
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# [10:38] <moo-_-> Thomas_: try #jquery - this question is not related to html5
# [10:38] <Thomas_> k tnx anyway
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# [10:56] <aamir-m> Hey divya, are you from Mumbai?
# [10:56] <divya> nope
# [10:57] <aamir-m> oh
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# [12:02] <kedel> Hi, I have a problem with the new labels of html5, for example <footer> because dont respect the worklfow of the <div>s . Is like if is in other layer the divs and the footer
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# [12:03] <kedel> I have some divs in the content and down the footer, but the footer is going up and i see it in the backside of the content, like if it don't see there are somes divs
# [12:03] <moo-_-> kedel: can you repeat the problem on jsfiddle.net
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# [12:04] <kedel> moo-_- going
# [12:05] <kedel> wow! is great!
# [12:05] <kedel> thanks a lot!
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# [12:17] <moo-_-> kedel: np :)
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# [12:30] <kedel> so, only about theory, this new elements (header, article, aside, footer) are in other level than the classical <div>?
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# [12:31] <moo-_-> kedel: no
# [12:31] <moo-_-> kedel: your question does not make sense, so you must be thinking it wrong few steps backward
# [12:31] <moo-_-> kedel: why they would be?
# [12:32] <moo-_-> kedel: you probably have some other issue with your CSS. Can you please repeat the problem in jsfiddle.net and we can take a look at it
# [12:32] <kedel> ok
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# [12:49] <ic_johns1on> when I try to scale a canvas with the context.scale() function all my shapes scales up. I want each shape to scale up individually. How can I manage to do that?
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# [12:56] <kedel> i did, this is the shared link
# [12:56] <kedel> http://jsfiddle.net/hedel/3RdMc/
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# [13:01] <moo-_-> kedel: there is still pretty much information there... can you try to narrow it so that we'll see the issue and the issue only?
# [13:02] <moo-_-> kedel: or tell what part is wrong
# [13:03] <kedel> well, just right now i fix, was in this aside.bottom and the footer, the background was going to up and was showing in the backside after my content
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# [13:04] <kedel> but i change and i'm giving the background property directly to divs and not to <content, aside, etc> with that is working
# [13:04] <beevi7> anyone interested in contributing demos? :) http://doctypehtml.net/
# [13:04] <beevi7> i moved all the stuff to github
# [13:05] <kedel> by the way, the dev tool bar on firefox showme class and divs but not this new elements, some solution for that?
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# [13:09] <ic_johns1on> can anyone tell me why this is not working? The canvas is drawn for me in Google Chrome, but not here: http://jsfiddle.net/6hVX9/1/
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# [13:12] <ic_johns1on> here is a more cleaned up version: http://jsfiddle.net/6hVX9/2/
# [13:13] <ic_johns1on> ok, got it working now. Can anyone help me to figure out why the scaling function affects all of my shapes? Please see here: http://jsfiddle.net/6hVX9/3/
# [13:17] <seutje> coz ur scaling the entire context?
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# [13:18] <ic_johns1on> but each context has their own region?
# [13:19] <ic_johns1on> seutje: how can I scale just the context of that region? I am new to canvas and havn't really grasped the canvas/context difference. I guess there's only _one_ context in each canvas? But there can be several regions?
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# [13:21] <kedel> moo-_- the problem is with <content> the rest of elements (aside and footer) don't see the content element and take it place, firebug don't show me too the <content> element in the layout
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# [13:23] <seutje> ic_johns1on: afaict, "region" is something specific to the library ur using
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# [13:24] <seutje> ic_johns1on: and it looks like this library isn't passing the region to the handler
# [13:24] <ic_johns1on> right, I am using kinetic library as shown in the html5canvastutorials.com.
# [13:24] <moo-_-> kedel: I see <article class=content> in the exmaple
# [13:24] <moo-_-> with firebug
# [13:24] <moo-_-> and in the layout
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# [13:25] <seutje> ic_johns1on: looks like the current region is being passed as this within the handler
# [13:25] <ic_johns1on> seutje: can you give me some useful tips/links on how I can do this without that library? I want to be able to manipulate shapes differently
# [13:26] <ic_johns1on> seutje: or otherwise point me towards the right direction. What do you suggest?
# [13:26] <seutje> ic_johns1on: no clue, the model of canvas fucks with my brain coz u have to redraw each frame
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# [13:28] <ic_johns1on> should I be looking at this? http://www.html5canvastutorials.com/labs/html5-canvas-drag-and-drop-multiple-shapes-with-kineticjs/
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# [13:29] <kedel> yep, sorry, yes is article.content
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# [13:36] <kedel> this elements containers don't take the heigh automatic by the elements who have inside?
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# [13:56] <`Phoenix> this whole things a joke man. i promise i'll make it so damn impossible if it doesn't stop.
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# [14:01] <`Phoenix> no origin stupid fuck.
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# [14:14] <drublic> `Phoenix: You alright?
# [14:14] <`Phoenix> Yeah. Just a little hyper. Too much sugar. I need it.
# [14:14] <drublic> :D
# [14:14] <drublic> k
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# [14:36] <dpy2> hi guys
# [14:36] <dpy2> html5/css3 question about flexible box model and css transforms (question on the URI itself): http://jsbin.com/ekowac/3
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# [14:39] <drublic> dpy2: could you set up a jsfiddle? thx
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# [14:40] <dpy2> drublic: this is a jsbin, click on the top-right and you can edit
# [14:40] <drublic> dpy2: woops, sorry. didn't even get the two boxes…
# [14:41] <dpy2> you'll need a fairly recent html5 capable browser, yes
# [14:42] <drublic> yeha, it has do be a css3 capable browser, that's true ;)
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# [15:55] <chrisdev> I have an element with a single letter in it, with a border. How do I keep the space from collapsing if the letter is not present?
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# [15:58] <CrashTest_> chrisdev: if it has height/width set and is display: block, shouldn't it stay the same, empty or not?
# [15:59] <chrisdev> its a link and doesn't seem to honor height
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# [15:59] <chrisdev> Seems this works OK: $('#initials').html(' ');
# [15:59] <CrashTest_> chrisdev: Is it set as display: block ?
# [16:00] <chrisdev> no, I'm not familiar with that display value, but looks invaluable I will look it up!
# [16:01] <CrashTest_> chrisdev: basically, it makes it into something that will hold it's shape, a block element.
# [16:01] <chrisdev> CrashTest_: Argh so helpful, huge blind spot for me - thanks!
# [16:01] <CrashTest_> But yeah, looking that up will help you enormously over time. display is used a bunch in CSS
# [16:02] <CrashTest_> chrisdev: ^
# [16:02] <chrisdev> yeah I had only been using it for display:none and then show() and hide()
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# [16:03] <CrashTest_> chrisdev: Oh yeah, you haven't seen nothin' yet then :) Inline is fun, inline-block can be a lifesaver, block is used a LOT, etc.
# [16:03] <chrisdev> In this case I probably want to stick with what I did in this particular case, saves me from having to coordinate block height and font size
# [16:05] <chrisdev> oh jesus inline-block thank god
# [16:09] <Velmont> inline-block is truly wonderful. I've used it from before most browsers supported it, as a kinda "yeah, you rest just get the a bit more ugly version, but still works"
# [16:09] <Velmont> But now it's very well supported.
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# [16:21] <ic_johns1on> it seems as though some canvas functions are global and applies to all contexts, while some only affects the most recently drawn context
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# [16:23] <ic_johns1on> context.stroke() only applies to the most recent shape I drew, but context.shadow- functions apply to all shapes in my canvas
# [16:23] <ic_johns1on> can someone explain?
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# [19:01] <chovy> good morning.
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# [19:06] <CrashTest_> good morning!
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# [19:13] <taylorRichie> Any talented MSIE 7 optimizers out there this morning :D
# [19:18] <taylorRichie> I hate internet explorer :(
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# [19:25] <chovy> heh
# [19:25] <JonathanNeal> hi
# [19:25] <chovy> we just stopped support ie7
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# [19:26] <paul_irish> http://yocode.de/work/jscript/surface.html
# [19:26] <chovy> hi JonathanNeal
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# [19:26] <JonathanNeal> hi chovy.
# [19:26] <dilvie> Facebook doesn't support IE7 anymore. Hopefully that means that a lot of people will upgrade. =)
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# [19:27] <tw2113> they won't
# [19:27] <dilvie> paul_irish: Had fun at JavaScript club last night @ Ubercab HQ. Lots of node peeps. If you're into it, you should come to the next one. =)
# [19:27] <taylorRichie> Yay, do you guys have a favorite 'browser update recommender plugin?' like Seven Up?
# [19:28] <paul_irish> dilvie: yeah i was tryin to track that down
# [19:28] <paul_irish> link plz
# [19:28] <dilvie> one sec...
# [19:30] <dilvie> paul_irish: http://groups.google.com/group/javascriptclub
# [19:30] <paul_irish> oh marak. cool
# [19:30] <chovy> darn, it's in sf.
# [19:30] <JonathanNeal> dilvie: for reals?
# [19:31] <JonathanNeal> No IE7 on Facebook?
# [19:31] <JonathanNeal> Any articles published about that?
# [19:31] <dilvie> JonathanNeal: Open IE and point it at Facebook. You'll get a message encouraging you to upgrade your browser.
# [19:32] <dilvie> IE7
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# [19:32] <JonathanNeal> will do
# [19:32] <JonathanNeal> still, anyone write something up about it
# [19:32] <dilvie> I don't know.
# [19:32] <dilvie> I just saw the message and started dancing around the office and singing happy songs.
# [19:33] <divya> naice
# [19:33] <dilvie> not sure when it happened
# [19:33] <JonathanNeal> I'm not getting that message, huh.
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# [19:36] <taylorRichie> Facebook is working for me in MSIE 7, and no message (of course I'm using MSIE 9, in Browsermode MSIE 7, not sure if it properly changes the User Agent.
# [19:37] <dilvie> hmm.. try it in IE Tester or the real IE7?
# [19:37] <taylorRichie> Ok… I clicked around a bit, and suddenly got a message at the top "You may want to upgrade your browser"
# [19:38] <chovy> it should automatically install google frame.
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# [19:38] <chovy> or ms should just upgrade everyone to ie9
# [19:39] <JonathanNeal> taylorRichie: like you, I'm not getting it, but I'm still not getting it either.
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# [19:40] <taylorRichie> Very bizarre… I changed my User Agent in Safari and couldn't get it to come up. Wonder how they're detecting.
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# [19:43] <chovy> taylorRichie: dom support maybe
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# [19:45] <chovy> taylorRichie: i see it when changing user agent.
# [19:46] <chovy> didn't get the message until I login and go to my wall.
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# [19:47] <JonathanNeal> chovy: if it's based on dom support, that could fire some false positives.
# [19:47] <chovy> it isn't
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# [19:50] <taylorRichie> Anyone wanna join my movement? Occupy MSIE <7?
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# [19:54] <chovy> taylorRichie: lol
# [19:54] <chovy> we need a reverend to lead us.
# [19:54] <JonathanNeal> Whaat?
# [19:54] <chovy> I elect Reverand Paul Irish
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# [19:55] <chovy> Occupy MSIE <9
# [19:57] <bostran> any reason i would insert <style..> element BETWEEN head and body?
# [19:57] <taylorRichie> :D Agree with Chovy…
# [19:57] <taylorRichie> Has anyone used this: http://upgradebrowsers.com/
# [19:58] <taylorRichie> Not as nice as 7 up… but seeing as how I'm having issues with 7 I'd like to go a step further.
# [19:58] <JonathanNeal> bostran: because you don't care for <head> or <body> ?
# [19:58] <bostran> well - that's just how my site is set up for some reason
# [19:59] <JonathanNeal> Fun fact half of you probably already knew; you can't ditch <head> and <body> altogether, but IE<9 might throw issues if your first "body" element is a new html5 element.
# [19:59] <JonathanNeal> But regardless, headless and bodyless html documents are html5 valid.
# [19:59] <JonathanNeal> And they work.
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# [19:59] <bostran> cool tks
# [20:00] <taylorRichie> @JonathanNeal - Is it Best Practice? once the standard is complete, will it be preferred?
# [20:00] <JonathanNeal> What is "preferred"?
# [20:01] <JonathanNeal> I think that, like self closing elements having or not having the /, it's up to you.
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# [20:01] <taylorRichie> Will omitting the Body and head be considered best practice I guess :)
# [20:02] <Ms2ger> There is no preference except your own
# [20:03] <JonathanNeal> taylorRichie: I'm not sure if there will be a preference to constitute a best practice.
# [20:03] <bostran> anyone have time to help debug a site in IE?
# [20:03] <bostran> please msg me if so - much appreciated
# [20:04] <taylorRichie> @jonathanNeal thanks I was just curious…
# [20:04] <JonathanNeal> taylorRichie: I completely understand your desire to have a "one way or the highway" approach though.
# [20:04] <JonathanNeal> I often want that.
# [20:07] <taylorRichie> I like that HTML5 isn't strict like XHTML, though I'd like to markup as closely to the masses as possible… :D
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# [20:37] <taylorRichie> Perhaps the wrong channel to ask, but… :D What if any, framework, or CMS do you guys use for basic brochure type sites for your clients. Sites that are on a <40 hour budget?
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# [20:39] <divya> wordpress
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# [20:42] <taylorRichie> Guess I'm just not efficient enough with WP on a 40 hour budget :D unless I tweak a template instead of start from scratch.
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# [20:52] <moo-_-> taylorRichie: wordpress is pretty much cheapiest you can show around the markets :)
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# [21:07] <taylorRichie> @moo-_- I used to use ModX until just very recently… now I've actually started using PageLime, white labeled for myself. Thought about webPop because it shows promise…
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# [21:07] * moo-_- prefers to stay away from anything PHP based
# [21:08] <moo-_-> :)
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# [21:08] <moo-_-> but on the other hand I am bored with CMS and service business
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# [21:09] <taylorRichie> I wish I was more familiar with Ruby, and new of a good Ruby on Rails CMS :D My new years resolution this year was to learn ROR… Didn't happen… or hasn't happened rather.
# [21:09] <taylorRichie> :D
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# [21:10] <DigitalNative> @taylorRichie maybe this will help get you started: http://www.sitepoint.com/learn-ruby-on-rails/
# [21:10] <moo-_-> taylorRichie: RoR is so 2000.... we need to start look ahead for node.js CMS :)
# [21:10] <moo-_-> if there ain't one yet :)
# [21:12] <taylorRichie> Argh… don't tell me that :D I can only choose one for now… and I want it to be the right one this go around… I spent 4 years in actionscript… and feel today that it was 95% in vain.
# [21:12] <taylorRichie> @digitalNative - Thanks! I actually have a Lynda account, and was going to try it, and maybe thinkvitamin. Already went through the original Rails for Zombies. Fun site.
# [21:13] <moo-_-> taylorRichie: look even more ahead.. Dash CSM!
# [21:13] <moo-_-> CMS even
# [21:13] <moo-_-> or whatever they are called tomorrow
# [21:13] <DigitalNative> Calipso is starting to grow… I think its node.js based
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# [21:13] <DigitalNative> I like codeIgniter & Drupal personally
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# [21:16] <taylorRichie> I've used codeigniter and EE a little bit… Never got into Drupal though I've heard good things… Main reason I never Drupaled was the Learning curve was huge, but once learnt very powerful...
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# [21:16] <DigitalNative> It's not that bad if you have exp with CodeIgniter or EE.
# [21:17] <DigitalNative> But the Node.js direction seems to be the right one
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# [21:38] <chovy> hey all
# [21:38] <chovy> in an interview, someone told me there was a reason to use hyphens instead of underscores in css classnames and ids...anyone know why?
# [21:39] <chovy> I had always thought it was personal preference.
# [21:39] <divya> wut
# [21:39] <divya> a reason?
# [21:39] <chovy> yeah
# [21:39] <divya> thats new to me
# [21:40] <chovy> it had something to do with javascript i think.
# [21:40] <chovy> not sure what it could be though.
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# [21:40] <divya> i have no idea underscores suck
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# [21:42] <chovy> Free: HTML5 training offered by Microsoft
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# [21:42] <chovy> Isn't that like asking big tobacco for ways to quit smoking?
# [21:43] <JonathanNeal> free training, I thought that's why they made w3schools
# [21:43] <moo-_-> HTML5.NET
# [21:43] <chovy> moo-_-: that site rocks!
# [21:43] <chovy> i like the doctype they use. xhtml 1.0 transitional.
# [21:44] <moo-_-> it's actually something my friend bought from domain market few years ago
# [21:44] <moo-_-> he kindly asked could I produce content there for free so that he could rip off all the ad money
# [21:44] <chovy> that's nice of him.
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# [21:47] <moo-_-> chovy: obviously didn't happen
# [21:48] <chovy> how much did he pay for the domain?
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# [22:07] <moo-_-> chovy: around 5kEUR I think
# [22:07] <chovy> wtf
# [22:07] <chovy> that's like 10,000 usd.
# [22:07] <moo-_-> well, almost :)
# [22:08] <moo-_-> if USD has diven deep recently
# [22:08] <chovy> a few years ago.
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# [22:09] <moo-_-> it's worth of the money if you turn it something like w3school and generate 100k - 1M visits per month
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# [22:17] <YamahaAlex> can anyone recommend a good book, there is a 30% B&N coupon on slickdeals
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# [22:24] <shawn_dones> Does Anyone have an opinion about grid systems in general or 960?
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# [22:25] <jonk_> hey folks
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# [22:25] <DigitalNative> It's good are you doing rapid prototypes or an adaptive UI?
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# [22:39] <drublic> shawn_dones: I'm using css-grids especially for prototyping. if you consider designing for mobile it's hard to use 960.gs for instance because you often want to display the website other than you do on desktops of notebooks.
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# [23:09] <chovy> i think for mobile, media queries work better than grid.
# [23:10] <chovy> YamahaAlex: there's html5 pro development
# [23:10] <chovy> YamahaAlex: http://www.apress.com/9781430227908
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# [23:11] <YamahaAlex> chovy, do media queries also handle mobile input?
# [23:11] <YamahaAlex> like touch, rotate
# [23:12] <chovy> http://www.amazon.com/Pro-HTML5-Programming-Professional-Apress/dp/143023864X/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1318453591&sr=1-2
# [23:12] <chovy> 2nd edition
# [23:13] <YamahaAlex> awesome, thanks a lot
# [23:13] <YamahaAlex> brb
# [23:13] <chovy> media queries are a way to apply diff stylesheets based on screen size.
# [23:14] <TRUPPP> but they can react to rotation it think
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# [23:14] <TRUPPP> ah yes screen size you mentioned it =)
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# [23:21] <JonathanNeal> hi
# [23:21] <TRUPPP> hi
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# [23:25] <chovy> hi
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# [23:34] <retlehs> hello
# [23:35] <TRUPPP> hi
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# [23:36] <chovy> alright, let's begin...
# [23:38] <chovy> is <div /> valid html?
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# [23:39] <tw2113> my instinct says no because divs aren't self closing
# [23:39] <chovy> yeah
# [23:39] <TRUPPP> its invalid imo
# [23:40] <tw2113> "Self-closing syntax (/>) used on a non-void HTML element. Ignoring the slash and treating as a start tag. <div/>"
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# [23:42] <chovy> evidently not.
# [23:42] <chovy> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3558119/are-self-closing-tags-valid-in-html5
# [23:43] <chovy> it treats it as a start tag in html5
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# [23:47] <JonathanNeal> facinating
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# [23:48] <chovy> yes
# [23:48] <chovy> indeed.
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# [23:48] <paul_irish> ?g mathias etago
# [23:48] <bot-t> paul_irish, The end-tag open (ETAGO) delimiter · Mathias Bynens - http://mathiasbynens.be/notes/etago
# [23:48] <paul_irish> ^ ^ ^ ^
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# [23:49] <matjas> the / in /> is called “solidus”
# [23:49] <dilvie> self closing tags are valid for void elements (elements that cannot contain child elements)
# [23:50] <matjas> chovy: you’re confused with XHTML
# [23:50] <dilvie> ONLY void elements can use them in HTML5
# [23:50] <JonathanNeal> solidus is not valid
# [23:50] <JonathanNeal> Self-closing syntax (/>) used on a non-void HTML element. Ignoring the slash and treating as a start tag.
# [23:50] <JonathanNeal> It gracefully falls back, but it's not valid.
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# [23:50] <matjas> stuff like <div/> or <img …></img> is only valid in XML serializations (i.e. XHTML)
# [23:50] <chovy> so it works but is not valid.
# [23:50] <matjas> but no one uses those
# [23:51] <matjas> and you shouldn’t either
# [23:51] <matjas> ?g mathias xhtml5
# [23:51] <bot-t> matjas, The XML serialization of HTML5, aka 'XHTML5' · Mathias Bynens - http://mathiasbynens.be/notes/xhtml5
# [23:51] <chovy> i've seen <div /> a few times with ajax applications.
# [23:51] * matjas shamelessly self-promotes
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# [23:51] <JonathanNeal> they walked into that self promotion if you ask me. :)
# [23:52] <matjas> chovy: well, jQuery accepts XHTML-style code, e.g. $('<div/>') is the same as doing $('<div></div>') or just $('<div>') for that matter
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# Session Close: Thu Oct 13 00:00:01 2011

The end :)