/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-10-14 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri Oct 14 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
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  5. # [00:01] <phrearch> hello
  6. # [00:01] <phrearch> does anyone have experience with optimizing websocket function call latency?
  7. # [00:01] * Quits: skyfaller (~skyfaller@wikipedia/Skyfaller) (Remote host closed the connection)
  8. # [00:02] <phrearch> i currently use regular expressions on urls to route function calls, but im not sure if thats efficient enough for high-load use-cases
  9. # [00:03] <moo-_-> phrearch: whatever will be the bottlenecks I am sure regular expressions is not one of them
  10. # [00:04] <phrearch> moo-_-: ok, then i try my current router for this game server thing i have in mind
  11. # [00:04] <phrearch> need an excuse to learn webgl :)
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  13. # [00:05] <moo-_-> phrearch: what's the backend?
  14. # [00:05] <phrearch> i was thinking of pypy
  15. # [00:05] <phrearch> pypy + twisted
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  17. # [00:06] <phrearch> and some intermediary server to move/connect users to other running simulators
  18. # [00:06] <phrearch> not sure if thats the best choice though
  19. # [00:07] <phrearch> c++ may be faster, but harder to develop
  20. # [00:07] <phrearch> at least, for me :)
  21. # [00:07] <taylorRichie1> Ok… I'm truly going to start OccupyIE - Even MSIE 9.0 isn't rendering my site 'correctly' Argh… Any experts want to help me with a rendering issue :)
  22. # [00:07] <phrearch> haha, OccupyM$
  23. # [00:08] <Pomax> using <!doctype html> ?
  24. # [00:08] <Pomax> gotta force that IE9 into standards mode
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  26. # [00:09] <taylorRichie1> I'm using boilerplate, and using MSIE developer tools It's rendering in standards.
  27. # [00:09] <taylorRichie1> here's the site: cornerstonerdi.com
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  29. # [00:10] <taylorRichie1> I'm sure it's a simple quirk that I'm not addressing… but I never have been good at MSIE optimization.
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  31. # [00:10] <taylorRichie1> Navigation is the issue.
  32. # [00:13] <taylorRichie1> And I just noticed I have <a><li></li></a> instead of <li><a></a></li> because apparently I was being retarded when I did the markup.
  33. # [00:14] <Pomax> Opera doesn't like it either
  34. # [00:14] <taylorRichie1> Yay…
  35. # [00:15] <Pomax> might be a deeper problem than just IE
  36. # [00:15] <taylorRichie1> Yes I'm afraid it may be...
  37. # [00:15] <Pomax> and I need to step out for a few hours. hopefully someone else feels like having a look
  38. # [00:15] <taylorRichie1> I'm deconstructing now.
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  40. # [00:16] <taylorRichie1> Thanks Pomax.
  41. # [00:17] <taylorRichie1> Opera should be a relatively simple fix… looks like background position isn't taking… but IE everything looks nasty in the nav.
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  45. # [00:19] <taylorRichie1> FIXED!! Easy easy...
  46. # [00:19] <taylorRichie1> just needed to put the <a> within the <li> works in IE and Opera.
  47. # [00:20] <tw2113> whoa...someone testing in opera
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  49. # [00:20] <jakefolio> taylorRichie1: didn't I answer this for you yesterday?
  50. # [00:20] <jakefolio> or was someone else asking the same thing
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  56. # [00:23] <Thasmo> beawesomeinstead: http://tokimon.dk/testing/css-svg-test.html
  57. # [00:23] <Thasmo> huh
  58. # [00:23] <Thasmo> beawesomeinstead: http://tokimon.dk/testing/css-svg-test.html
  59. # [00:23] <taylorRichie1> Same issue I asked about… different site...
  60. # [00:23] <Thasmo> wtf :D
  61. # [00:23] <taylorRichie1> That's how I recognized this one was wrong :D
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  64. # [00:23] <taylorRichie1> And that took care of it so thanks again! jakefolio
  65. # [00:23] <tw2113> to be fair, he answered it himself
  66. # [00:24] <jakefolio> I just thought it was weird the same questions showed up 2 days in a row…..just checking if it was the same person
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  68. # [00:24] <taylorRichie1> I still want to Occupy MS though… really do they need to waste resources putting a browser out when there are 3 really good viable free browsers :D
  69. # [00:24] <tw2113> it's called competition
  70. # [00:25] <tw2113> and without IE, what would we rate the others against?
  71. # [00:25] <jakefolio> IE10 is going to be pretty good……but I will still use Chrome :)
  72. # [00:25] <tw2113> IE is the yang to the other ones' ying
  73. # [00:25] <taylorRichie1> You're right… we wouldn't know how bad it 'could' be without it...
  74. # [00:26] <jakefolio> IE10 is going to have a lot of HTML5/CSS3 features that will put it on par/past some other browsers…..their biggest downfall will be "yearly" releases
  75. # [00:26] <jakefolio> I like how Chrome and FF have more frequent releases
  76. # [00:27] <tw2113> what's going to kill us with IE is the long term support that MS offers
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  78. # [00:27] <taylorRichie1> well… by the time ie10 is fully released, we don't know where chrome and ff will be. so it's hard to say if it will even be on par… right? But atleast they're moving in the right direction.
  79. # [00:27] <tw2113> http://paulirish.com/2011/browser-market-pollution-iex-is-the-new-ie6/
  80. # [00:28] <taylorRichie1> Argh…. yeah… see… all the more reason to occupy… If they would just add 'auto update' then people will always be on the latest.
  81. # [00:29] <tw2113> they need to get people off of XP which only goes up to IE8
  82. # [00:30] <taylorRichie1> oh yeah… that too… man I forget about all aspects of the windows world, and most windows users.
  83. # [00:31] <taylorRichie1> I look forward to new OS releases… of course for a mac, it's $40, windows, $300 or you can by a new computer for $300 with windows 7 installed
  84. # [00:31] <tw2113> linux for free
  85. # [00:31] <taylorRichie1> Yup… I'm a big fan of the linux world too…
  86. # [00:31] <danielfilho> Chrome is driving me crazy with this "Uncaught SyntaxError: <unknown message reserved_word>"
  87. # [00:32] * tw2113 tells chrome that danielfilho doesn't need help going crazy :P
  88. # [00:32] <danielfilho> hahaha
  89. # [00:32] <taylorRichie1> Just installed ubuntu 11.04 on a netbook, and love it… interesting new UI.
  90. # [00:34] * Quits: jakefolio (~Adium@66.151.252.254) (Quit: Leaving.)
  91. # [00:34] <danielfilho> it's some sort of bug, or some extension that's showing this error on the console.
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  100. # [00:42] <maz-sans-cause> Hi all! I'm trying to set up an audio player using the <audio> tag, is there a way to bind a <a> click to pause this audio playing in javascript?
  101. # [00:45] <maz-sans-cause> no clue?
  102. # [00:48] <tw2113> i'm sure it's possible
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  110. # [00:54] <moo-_-> maz-sans-cause: yes
  111. # [00:54] <moo-_-> $(a).click(function() { audio.pause() } );
  112. # [00:54] <moo-_-> as in jquery
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  142. # [01:24] <tw2113> :O jacine
  143. # [01:24] <jacine> hey tw2113!
  144. # [01:25] <tw2113> yo B-)
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  158. # [01:51] * tw2113 will finally be able to access IE9/10 soon
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  204. # [03:34] <blognewb> hi guys, what is your opinion on serving just mp4 and webm then maybe flash for html video?
  205. # [03:34] <blognewb> webm,mp4,flash, in that order, no ogg
  206. # [03:35] <Pomax> you had me at mp4, then you lost me again with the other formats.
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  208. # [03:39] <OzDave_mbp> mp4 is fairly universal as long as you dont encapsulate a h264
  209. # [03:40] <Pomax> show me a computer that doesn't have an h264 codec installed, and I show you a horrendously out of date machine. also, I'll show you ffdshow
  210. # [03:40] <Pomax> the only issue with h264 is that encoding costs money. theoretically.
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  212. # [03:47] <paul_irish> blognewb: yes
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  214. # [03:47] <paul_irish> serve h264 and webm
  215. # [03:47] <paul_irish> flash for no html5vid
  216. # [03:47] <paul_irish> ignore ogg
  217. # [03:47] <paul_irish> you need to serve webm though
  218. # [03:49] <Pomax> does ff support webm/webp yet?
  219. # [03:49] <blognewb> paul_irish yay
  220. # [03:49] <blognewb> yes
  221. # [03:49] <blognewb> Pomax
  222. # [03:49] <Pomax> really? webp too?
  223. # [03:49] <blognewb> mp4 is for ie. fuck.
  224. # [03:49] <Pomax> I recall 6.0 didn't like webp at all
  225. # [03:49] <paul_irish> ff doesnt supprt webp
  226. # [03:49] <paul_irish> but has had webm since 4
  227. # [03:50] <Pomax> frankly the whole "which codec" argument was fscking nonsense. If you have the codec installed, it shouldn't matter what the <video> tag supports.
  228. # [03:50] <OzDave_mbp> that is only half the problem
  229. # [03:50] <paul_irish> i am uninterested in the codec debate
  230. # [03:50] <paul_irish> PEACE
  231. # [03:51] <Pomax> I am still considering writing a webp.js while support for it is low
  232. # [03:51] <Pomax> it's one hell of an awesome image container.
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  234. # [03:54] <OzDave_mbp> so what was decided on?
  235. # [03:55] * Joins: m1chael][ (~m1chael@69.182.159.254)
  236. # [03:55] <OzDave_mbp> you could always have a care page for perian and klite anyway
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  238. # [03:57] <OzDave_mbp> sounds like it turned into mental masturbation
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  241. # [03:59] <miketaylr> Pomax: someone already wrote that
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  246. # [03:59] <Pomax> if they did, they made it hard to find. where'd they host it?
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  250. # [04:00] <miketaylr> ?g weppy
  251. # [04:00] <bot-t> miketaylr, Weppy - http://seiryu.home.comcast.net/~seiryu/weppy.html
  252. # [04:00] <miketaylr> umm
  253. # [04:00] <miketaylr> ?g weppy shim
  254. # [04:00] <bot-t> miketaylr, Weppy: Javascript Shim for WebP on Chrome 6 and Firefox 4.0 – Blog - http://antimatter15.com/wp/2010/10/weppy-javascript-shim-for-webp-on-chrome-6-and-firefox-4-0/
  255. # [04:00] <Pomax> cheers
  256. # [04:01] <miketaylr> don't worry where it says it doesn't work in opera--- we have native webp support now
  257. # [04:01] <paul_irish> ?boom
  258. # [04:01] <bot-t> "Did you are unimpressed? and now?"
  259. # [04:01] * tw2113 gives miketaylr oreos
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  310. # [05:41] <tw2113> JonathanNeal, nice normalize song
  311. # [05:44] <ExpFist> Man actionscript seems detailed
  312. # [05:44] <ExpFist> Most of the shit I had to code in HTML5 is done for me :F
  313. # [05:45] <ExpFist> for rather
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  339. # [06:54] <JonathanNeal> tw2113: thank you
  340. # [06:55] <tw2113> ;)
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  345. # [07:04] <dpogue> hmm, latest Chrome dev on Linux is showing me a completely blue window for anything with WebGL
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  349. # [07:11] * tw2113 is now among the IE9 users
  350. # [07:11] <tw2113> and by that i mean i have it available
  351. # [07:16] <ExpFist> Funny enough IE9 is my favorite browser for debugging JS
  352. # [07:17] <ExpFist> It also seems the fastest for HTML5
  353. # [07:17] <ExpFist> FF being the slowest
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  355. # [07:18] <tw2113> *shrug*
  356. # [07:18] <tw2113> :D
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  365. # [07:47] <paul_irish> http://www.netmagazine.com/node/1465 incredible.
  366. # [07:47] <paul_irish> dpogue: if you're using too much video memory you get that BSO GPU D
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  370. # [07:59] <ExpFist> Man does anyone know why the canplaythough event isn't firing on Safari?
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  372. # [08:03] <ExpFist> var self = this;
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  374. # [08:03] <ExpFist> this.element.addEventListener('canplaythrough',function(){self.canPlayThrough();},false);
  375. # [08:03] <ExpFist> This never fires in safari
  376. # [08:03] <ExpFist> Driving me insane
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  404. # [09:14] <Epeli> T-Co: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7690038/which-android-tablets-are-usable-for-testing-javascript-heavy-web-applications/7764180#7764180
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  406. # [09:17] <T-Co> Epeli, Awesome, TFTI
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  417. # [09:49] <harshada_> hey in my website i am using flowplayer.. but its not working in apple devices.. any idea??
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  460. # [11:12] <eighty4> harshada_: flowplayer is a flashbased player
  461. # [11:12] <eighty4> harshada_: flash doesn't work on ipod/ipad
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  473. # [11:44] <dirkpennings> harshada_: http://flowplayer.org/plugins/javascript/ipad.html ?
  474. # [11:46] <harshada_> dirkpennings: hey thanks, i saw dis link.. i want plugin that will make flowplayer compatible to all mobile, pad devices to play video.. any idea??
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  476. # [11:48] <ravenzz> hello
  477. # [11:49] <ravenzz> my html doesn't validate due to the plusone button and the facebook open graph data
  478. # [11:49] <ravenzz> is there a way to make it valid?
  479. # [11:52] <Dorward> ravenzz: For the plus one button — keep reading the documentation. It tells you how to do it in HTML instead of GoogleML
  480. # [11:52] <Dorward> ravenzz: For OpenGraph, AFAIK, No. It is unnecessarily proprietary junk.
  481. # [11:53] <ravenzz> :)
  482. # [11:53] <ravenzz> k thank you
  483. # [11:53] <Dorward> <rant> meta property — PROPERTY? Just what is wrong with the name attribute?!!??! </rant>
  484. # [11:53] <dirkpennings> harshada_: we use mp4 video hosted on cloudfront.. but that was optimzed for browser (streaming) and iDevices (progressive)
  485. # [11:54] <dirkpennings> so if mp4 is supported by ALL mobile and tablet devices, I don't know..
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  509. # [13:14] <moo-_-> I have forgotten the name of DOM functional javascript testing framework
  510. # [13:14] <moo-_-> suggestions? :)
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  558. # [14:53] <aamir-m> can anyone suggest how do I get started with node? I would like to develop web application
  559. # [14:54] <aamir-m> Oh sorry, posted in wrong forum...
  560. # [14:55] <f0f> perhaps wrong software too :)
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  614. # [16:27] <JonathanNeal> Hello!
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  661. # [17:56] <ravenzz> hello there
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  663. # [17:57] <philihp> why hello
  664. # [17:57] <ravenzz> hi
  665. # [17:57] <ravenzz> I dunno
  666. # [17:57] <ravenzz> I have a small issue with html5boilerplate, IE can't access to PIE.htc
  667. # [17:57] <philihp> good sir, this is a place for gentlemen. the upper 1% of IRC, we like to call ourselves.
  668. # [17:57] <ravenzz> even tought i place it on the root folder
  669. # [17:58] <philihp> does IE try to download it and get a 404?
  670. # [17:58] <philihp> and is it IE 9?
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  673. # [17:59] <ravenzz> sorry philihp, I am a gentleman, but my english sucks so I could looks unkind
  674. # [18:00] <ravenzz> philihp Access denied, so I suppose that it is an htaccess related issue
  675. # [18:00] <philihp> well we all must start somewhere, good chap
  676. # [18:00] <ravenzz> no IE 9
  677. # [18:00] <philihp> yeah, i would start there. looks like a server-side issue somewhere.
  678. # [18:01] <philihp> Fiddler is a really good tool for use with IE, lets you snoop traffic on the wire.
  679. # [18:02] <ravenzz> why should I snoop traffic?
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  681. # [18:03] <ravenzz> Options -Indexes prevent users from browsing folders
  682. # [18:03] <ravenzz> does it apply to files too?
  683. # [18:05] <ravenzz> np. fixed
  684. # [18:05] <ravenzz> ty ravenzz
  685. # [18:05] <ravenzz> lol
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  730. # Session Close: Fri Oct 14 19:02:23 2011
  731. #
  732. # Session Start: Fri Oct 14 19:02:23 2011
  733. # Session Ident: #html5
  734. # [19:02] * Disconnected
  735. # [19:03] * Attempting to rejoin channel #html5
  736. # [19:03] * Rejoined channel #html5
  737. # [19:03] * Topic is 'Ask any question about HTML5 & Friends || HTML5 Spec for Developers: http://developers.whatwg.org || Also: http://html5rocks.com http://diveintohtml5.org http://mzl.la/9giLwR || Channel logs: http://j.mp/cG7UDa'
  738. # [19:03] * Set by marienz!~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz on Wed Aug 10 22:18:05
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  753. # [19:43] <phrearch> hey
  754. # [19:43] <phrearch> anyone ever tried to force a scrollbar on webkit with overflow-y and a custom scrollbar?
  755. # [19:44] <phrearch> i finally found a working solution :)
  756. # [19:44] <phrearch> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/492549/
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  769. # [20:02] <hober> paul_irish: https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=70117
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  771. # [20:05] <moo-_-> hober: I falled into that trap recently
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  774. # [20:08] <paul_irish> ♥ hober
  775. # [20:09] <hober> paul_irish: we were talking about this yesterday; the lack of a fast code path for detecting WebGL being turned off
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  778. # [20:16] <YamahaAlex37> can i get some feedback/suggestions to make my portfolio site interactive
  779. # [20:16] <YamahaAlex37> http://eternaware.com/ac/
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  783. # [20:20] <philihp> ravenzz, glad that worked
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  793. # [20:34] <paul_irish> hober: looks great. thank you
  794. # [20:34] <paul_irish> hober: pretty sure this would affect mobile safari too, fwiw
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  798. # [20:39] <danielfilho> what about the community js logo? https://github.com/voodootikigod/logo.js
  799. # [20:39] <danielfilho> :D
  800. # [20:39] <hober> paul_irish: indeed
  801. # [20:40] <hober> paul_irish: authors will still have to try to canvas.getContext("webgl"), but when this is fixed they will at least have a fast(er) path for the webgl-is-disabled case
  802. # [20:40] <paul_irish> hot hot
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  804. # [20:43] <YamahaAlex37> can i pick the exact position of 4 corners of canvas?
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  848. # [21:43] <simensen> would there be any interest in making createproject.sh able to accept an absolute path?
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  859. # [22:02] <paul_irish> simensen: sure
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  898. # [22:56] <jjg> i've tested and can't seem to make it happen, but can <audio> stream audio for internet radio?
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  900. # [23:03] <Velmont> jjg: Supposed to work, yes.
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  902. # [23:04] <jjg> Velmont: thanks. basically wanna just bolt on a "radio" to a dumb little webapp i'm building. more I read, the less likely it seems possible.
  903. # [23:05] <jjg> browser specific it appears
  904. # [23:05] <Velmont> jjg: I'm working with HTML5 video streaming...
  905. # [23:05] <Velmont> jjg: That's video PLUS audio. And that works. So it'd be strange if just audio didn't work.
  906. # [23:05] <jjg> Velmont: ok, which browser?
  907. # [23:06] <Velmont> jjg: I tell people to use 1) Opera, Firefox or Chrome, or 2) Internet Explorer.
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  911. # [23:06] <jjg> Velmont: are you controlling your streams or using 3rd party streams?
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  913. # [23:06] <Velmont> Chrome has some issues, - Opera had some issues but they are fixed.
  914. # [23:07] <Velmont> jjg: I'm controlling the streams. Icecast, Ogg Theora + Ogg Vorbis.
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  916. # [23:07] <jjg> Velmont: I was hoping to figure out a way to search for streams to populate a drop down as I don't wanna have to manage the playlist .. just point to existing "stations"
  917. # [23:07] <Velmont> It's live conference webcast with slides.
  918. # [23:07] <tw2113> wait what? $browser has issues?
  919. # [23:07] <jjg> neato .. sounds like I could figure this out
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  922. # [23:09] <Velmont> jjg: For IE I just used cortado. --- For audio there's even a vorbis decoder in flash, so you don't have to use Java. -- However, cortado (java theora+vorbis decoder) works amazingly well for IE. -- I don't like java applets, but seems like people using IE is so used to bloated stuff that they don't really are annoyed by it.
  923. # [23:09] <YamahaAlex37> is it possible to specify the 4 corners of a canvas?
  924. # [23:09] <YamahaAlex37> for a skewed perspective
  925. # [23:09] <jjg> Velmont: that's super helpful.
  926. # [23:10] <Velmont> YamahaAlex37: Eas.... Skewed? Can you skew a canvas?
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  928. # [23:10] <YamahaAlex37> u know what i mean
  929. # [23:10] <YamahaAlex37> like a distance perspective
  930. # [23:11] <Velmont> YamahaAlex37: Yes. -- But you can't do that with a canvas, -- you can do it with something inside. --- Do you want to find the corners of a canvas, or the corners of what you're painting inside?
  931. # [23:11] <jjg> Velmont: do you find yourself spending most of your focus on supporting IE users?
  932. # [23:11] <YamahaAlex37> Velmont, the corners of what im painting in
  933. # [23:11] <YamahaAlex37> il show you: http://eternaware.com/ac/
  934. # [23:12] <YamahaAlex37> i need the canvas to fit that monitor on the right
  935. # [23:12] <Velmont> jjg: Actually not, -- I haven't thinked about them at all; cortado actually works very well in IE. It crashes Safari, but Java+IE seems to be best friends.
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  942. # [23:16] <Velmont> jjg: I do need some features from HTML5 though, to be able to sync full-JPEG slides and the video. Right now I'm pre-mixing the video and slides into a video, but I want to push the images on-demand to the users. However, that's impossible in all browser engines.
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  944. # [23:17] <Velmont> Noone implements the startOffsetTime-attribute that Hixie wrote into the spec after I had detailed my use case on WHATWG list.
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  946. # [23:18] <Velmont> YamahaAlex37: I'm sorry, I'm not a graphics programmer. However, your question is not specific to HTML5, AFAIK, you can ask in some graphics programming channels as well. Or read up on some algorithms.
  947. # [23:19] <YamahaAlex37> oh i thought i was going to try canvas
  948. # [23:19] <Velmont> YamahaAlex37: It's mostly math. Something I was never any good at :-) -- But I'll be leaving now. Good luck.
  949. # [23:19] <YamahaAlex37> guess not?
  950. # [23:19] <YamahaAlex37> ok thanks
  951. # [23:19] <Velmont> YamahaAlex37: You can paint to canvas just as you can paint to anything else. But canvas is similar to many other painting API's.
  952. # [23:20] <YamahaAlex37> k
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  956. # [23:23] <jetienne> anybody knows of a benchmark for <canvas> 2d api ? anything more standard/authoritative than jsgamebench ?
  957. # [23:23] <Ms2ger> A useful one? No.
  958. # [23:24] <Ms2ger> If your usage of canvas is slow, file a bug on the browser and they'll figure it out
  959. # [23:24] <YamahaAlex37> http://themaninblue.com/experiment/AnimationBenchmark/html/
  960. # [23:24] <YamahaAlex37> http://themaninblue.com/experiment/AnimationBenchmark/canvas/
  961. # [23:24] <YamahaAlex37> http://themaninblue.com/experiment/AnimationBenchmark/flash/
  962. # [23:24] <Ms2ger> Any benchmarks you see might give you fun numbers, but won't tell you anything useful
  963. # [23:25] <jetienne> YamahaAlex37: good ones, not too official tho
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  965. # [23:25] <jetienne> Ms2ger: i dunno facebook work seems serious from what i can see
  966. # [23:25] <YamahaAlex37> i guess... but they are the same benchmark in flash vs dom vs canvas
  967. # [23:26] <jetienne> YamahaAlex37: im more interested in this canvas implementation vs this other implementation
  968. # [23:27] <jetienne> i thinks i will do something simple, with draw image of various size
  969. # [23:27] <jetienne> it is about gaming too, drawimage clearrect mostly
  970. # [23:29] <jetienne> thank for your help
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  976. # [23:40] <simensen> what rules does the h5bp build process use to locate the scripts it concats and minifies?
  977. # [23:41] <simensen> actually, nm. i have some work to do before i can start worrying about that, i think.
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  982. # [23:52] <paul_irish> jetienne: jsagmebench seemed to best to my team a few months ago, but it did need some work. one of our guys was working on some contributions though to address that
  983. # [23:53] <jetienne> paul_irish: cool i wanted to work on this field
  984. # [23:54] <jetienne> i will see this weekend
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  986. # [23:54] <tw2113> afternoon gentlemen
  987. # [23:55] <manuchill> tw2113, lol, it's almost midnight at my end ;)
  988. # [23:56] <tw2113> migrate west, you'll time travel
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  992. # Session Close: Sat Oct 15 00:00:00 2011

The end :)