/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-10-26 / end

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  3. # [00:04] <chovy> ?
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  75. # [02:06] <ryoshu> hello
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  77. # [02:06] <ryoshu> what do use? xhtml or html5 for learning?
  78. # [02:07] <chovy> html5
  79. # [02:07] <chovy> ryoshu: .
  80. # [02:07] <ryoshu> what are the advantages?
  81. # [02:07] <chovy> i'd say the only thing to learn with xhtml is writing well-formed and valid html.
  82. # [02:08] <ryoshu> chovy: I see
  83. # [02:09] <tantek> you can choose to write well-formed HTML5 as well
  84. # [02:10] <ryoshu> :)
  85. # [02:11] <tantek> I don't think there are any benefits left to proper/actual XHTML per se. For more on the topic see: http://tantek.com/2010/302/b1/xhtml-dead-long-live-xml-valid-html5
  86. # [02:12] <ryoshu> tantek: thank you
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  88. # [02:12] <tantek> no problem!
  89. # [02:13] <ryoshu> I was coding in times of MSIE4 vs Netscape and I lost interst in trying to fit these two browsers, so I am returning
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  92. # [02:16] <grantg> So how was your stay at 4chan during your leave of absence?
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  95. # [02:20] <ryoshu> tantek: good blog! :)
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  98. # [02:24] <grantg> tantek: We need to inform the world that putting /> on certain html elements doesn't make them automatically XHTML.
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  100. # [02:24] <grantg> So much error handling...
  101. # [02:24] <grantg> from the slashes
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  114. # [02:53] <tantek> grantg I'm not sure what you mean by "putting /> on certain html elements doesn't make them automatically XHTML."
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  130. # Session Close: Wed Oct 26 03:31:17 2011
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  133. # Session Ident: #html5
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  137. # [03:50] * Topic is 'Ask any question about HTML5 & Friends || HTML5 Spec for Developers: http://developers.whatwg.org || Also: http://html5rocks.com http://diveintohtml5.info http://mzl.la/9giLwR || Channel logs: http://j.mp/cG7UDa'
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  178. # [06:28] <tw2113> evening tantek
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  190. # [06:38] <Nate_> I am having a weird HTML/css problem. Would anyone mind taking a look at my file?
  191. # [06:39] <Nate_> http://jsfiddle.net/nategines/ApYrT/
  192. # [06:41] <Nate_> The gray bars in the the background are supposed to go on foreever, but if you use the horizontal scroll bar the bars disapear.
  193. # [06:42] <OzDave_mbp> Nate_: grab the web developer addon for firefocks and activate the div order layout, it may show a certain issue
  194. # [06:42] <OzDave_mbp> focks lol
  195. # [06:42] <Nate_> ok Ill download that.
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  198. # [06:43] <Nate_> Is it much different than the inspector function with Chrome?
  199. # [06:43] <OzDave_mbp> https://imgur.com/lpXvD
  200. # [06:44] <OzDave_mbp> not used the chrome one but its got heaps of tools that make my day happy
  201. # [06:44] <OzDave_mbp> there is a div cutting them I can see there
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  203. # [06:45] <Nate_> Ya and I cant figure out how or why.
  204. # [06:45] <OzDave_mbp> Information / display div order
  205. # [06:45] <tw2113> make it a bg image?
  206. # [06:45] <OzDave_mbp> can you give me a link to the page without it in fiddle?
  207. # [06:46] <Nate_> its not up yet
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  209. # [06:46] <OzDave_mbp> stuff it all in a drop box
  210. # [06:47] <OzDave_mbp> This will make you laugh, clients who want tablet looking sites and then they see its super stupid looking on tablets lol
  211. # [06:47] * Quits: axos411 (~axos@xdsl-87-79-198-228.netcologne.de) (Quit: Leaving.)
  212. # [06:47] <OzDave_mbp> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3053655/tablet-style/index.htm
  213. # [06:47] <OzDave_mbp> I have a client who wants one but he shouted me down about avoiding it ;P
  214. # [06:47] <OzDave_mbp> so I just take the money
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  218. # [06:48] <Nate_> Amen
  219. # [06:48] <Nate_> Ill drop it on
  220. # [06:48] <OzDave_mbp> np
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  223. # [06:57] <Nate_> Sorry, OzDave. It looks like I cant send a link with my free account if you want to send me you email I can share the folder with you through drop box
  224. # [06:57] <OzDave_mbp> you can share the free I use it as well
  225. # [06:57] <OzDave_mbp> right mouse index
  226. # [06:57] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@h-67-100-118-146.snvacaid.static.covad.net)
  227. # [06:57] <OzDave_mbp> or if in the web page a little arrow at the end of the strip for index
  228. # [06:58] <OzDave_mbp> make sure its in the public folder as well
  229. # [06:59] <OzDave_mbp> http://imgur.com/wV77J
  230. # [06:59] <Nate_> That option doesnt appear. It only gives me the option to share.
  231. # [06:59] <OzDave_mbp> Is the content in the Public folder?
  232. # [07:00] <OzDave_mbp> see the breadcrumb path under [ GET STARTED ]
  233. # [07:01] <Nate_> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/14080718/testing/experiment3.html
  234. # [07:01] <Nate_> try that
  235. # [07:01] <OzDave_mbp> yay!
  236. # [07:01] <Nate_> Huzzah!
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  238. # [07:02] <OzDave_mbp> http://imgur.com/Sw2jq
  239. # [07:02] <Nate_> Havent used drop box much. I like it!
  240. # [07:02] <OzDave_mbp> works for me
  241. # [07:02] <OzDave_mbp> yeah its a good little system
  242. # [07:02] <OzDave_mbp> makes it a blessing if you have to fiddle with crap like this
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  244. # [07:02] <OzDave_mbp> you can use it as a mini cloud as well
  245. # [07:02] <Nate_> condense your window and use the horizontal scroll bar.
  246. # [07:03] <OzDave_mbp> ahh there it is
  247. # [07:03] <Nate_> It cuts off whatever was hanging outside
  248. # [07:03] <Nate_> the browser
  249. # [07:03] <Nate_> Ya, what the heck? eh?
  250. # [07:04] <OzDave_mbp> something with erasers div
  251. # [07:04] <OzDave_mbp> if you have that addon installed
  252. # [07:04] <OzDave_mbp> goto information then display div order or element information
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  254. # [07:05] <OzDave_mbp> you may need to make all the background work on its own layout and then this central part another grouped div order
  255. # [07:05] <OzDave_mbp> its freaky however whatever its doing
  256. # [07:06] <Nate_> What do you mean its own layout?
  257. # [07:07] <OzDave_mbp> imagine a div acting as a background group
  258. # [07:07] <OzDave_mbp> instead of using actual background references
  259. # [07:07] <OzDave_mbp> bgd index 1 bgd index 2 bgd index 3 then content index 1 index 2 etc
  260. # [07:07] <OzDave_mbp> oops content index 4 index 5
  261. # [07:10] <Nate_> How is that different from what I have done?
  262. # [07:10] <OzDave_mbp> there might be a hiccup in the layers
  263. # [07:10] <OzDave_mbp> bgd div that holds all the bgd layers and a content div that holds the top content might be another way
  264. # [07:11] <Nate_> can I make a backgrounds of multiple divs?
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  267. # [07:11] <Nate_> by the way that web developer tool is really cool
  268. # [07:11] <Nate_> Thanks for sharing
  269. # [07:12] <OzDave_mbp> yeah i think its not compatible across all the browsers yet hence the cheating
  270. # [07:12] <OzDave_mbp> yeah no worries mate
  271. # [07:12] <OzDave_mbp> let me check on that for you
  272. # [07:13] <OzDave_mbp> Gues who lets you down! IE
  273. # [07:13] <OzDave_mbp> http://caniuse.com/#search=backgrounds
  274. # [07:13] <OzDave_mbp> brb
  275. # [07:13] <Nate_> IE always lets me down :(
  276. # [07:14] * GoOz`aw is now known as GoOz
  277. # [07:14] <OzDave_mbp> hehe
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  279. # [07:14] <OzDave_mbp> pull the centered part out and move it down below the other stuff for an experiement and see what it does if that reveals something
  280. # [07:16] <Nate_> Im wondering if it could be a problem with positioning. If you delete the <nav> and the <erasers> div it works fine again.
  281. # [07:16] <OzDave_mbp> getting closer!
  282. # [07:17] <Nate_> Ive deleted all the styles as well, but the background doesnt behave unless those divs are deleted from the html
  283. # [07:17] <Nate_> I have no idea what that actually means.
  284. # [07:17] <Nate_> If you cant tell, Im pretty new to the web design world.
  285. # [07:18] <OzDave_mbp> Don't worry it happens to the best of us! :) thats why they have spliffs and alcohol on friday arvos ;P
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  288. # [07:19] <Nate_> Why wait until friday?
  289. # [07:20] <OzDave_mbp> hehe
  290. # [07:20] <OzDave_mbp> You live on the edge! :)
  291. # [07:20] <Nate_> Danger is my middle name!
  292. # [07:20] <OzDave_mbp> extreme coding!
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  294. # [07:23] <Nate_> Ya! Well thanks for the help! Ill be online for a bit. If you think of anything else let me know.
  295. # [07:24] <OzDave_mbp> ok mate sorry I am distracted with work here as well
  296. # [07:24] <Nate_> np
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  351. # [09:14] <Gabz> heyy
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  353. # [09:15] <Gabz> how's everyone?
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  355. # [09:18] <melst> good morning everyone :)
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  357. # [09:18] <OzDave_mbp> Forgive me I read your name as molest and had to relook!
  358. # [09:18] <OzDave_mbp> molesting on the brain
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  436. # [12:28] <lvh> Hi!
  437. # [12:28] <lvh> In HTML5 video, is there a way to be notified when a video reaches a certain timestamp?
  438. # [12:29] <lvh> I thought timeupdate would be it, but unless I'm misunderstanding, that only happens when someone actively changes the time (ie clicks on a point in the progress bar)
  439. # [12:30] <lvh> Oh, wait, apparently that's not true
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  484. # [14:51] <hetii> Hello :)
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  492. # [14:58] <ghinda> will a mobile browser download the background images from a media query, even if it doesn't match it?
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  522. # [15:21] <kylls> hi all, how to start learn about html5?
  523. # [15:21] <jetienne> kylls: http://www.html5rocks.com/
  524. # [15:22] <kylls> jetienne, ok
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  535. # [15:43] <Epeli> How I can detect touch support in Android Firefox. "ontouchstart" in window fails, but touch support is still there
  536. # [15:43] <Epeli> ?
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  538. # [15:43] <Epeli> Modernizr.touch also fails there
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  611. # [17:42] <paul_irish> Epeli: maybe one of these? http://modernizr.github.com/Modernizr/touch.html
  612. # [17:43] <paul_irish> looks like they are better.
  613. # [17:43] <paul_irish> er
  614. # [17:44] * paul_irish just woke up
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  618. # [17:48] <Epeli> paul_irish: Some Mozilla guy replied to me at Stack Overflow: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7903679/how-to-detect-touch-support-in-firefox-mobile-android-fennec-7-0-1
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  620. # [17:48] <paul_irish> oh boris did. sweeet
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  624. # [17:54] <rupl> paul_irish: what needs to happen to make onelessjpg
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  626. # [17:55] <rupl> hello btw haha
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  629. # [17:57] <Epeli> paul_irish: but his advice does not work :/
  630. # [17:57] <paul_irish> rupl: i need copy first. then a design
  631. # [17:58] <paul_irish> rupl: also data on the relative difference between common optimizations
  632. # [17:58] <rupl> paul_irish: k, I have an interested designer.
  633. # [17:58] <paul_irish> oh do you
  634. # [17:58] <rupl> ja ja
  635. # [17:59] <rupl> do we need to generate the data?
  636. # [18:00] <padolsey> hmm https://github.com/ajpiano/onelessjpg/commit/c4d6fac7075d76d1e4c5a67b4f76436f127f045e
  637. # [18:00] <socialhapy> ★ Commit on onelessjpg by paulirish (5m, 3w ago): some more flavor in the doctype. more options here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miscellaneous_Symbols
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  645. # [18:06] <Epeli> paul_irish: oh, sorry I had old Firefox version on my phone. This works! http://jsbin.com/axodeb/2/edit#source
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  649. # [18:10] <rupl> paul_irish: so if I sic someone on the design is that cool
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  651. # [18:12] <rupl> lol [if lte IE8] shitty
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  658. # [18:18] <paul_irish> rupl: yes very cool
  659. # [18:19] <Michael> You know what's annoying? Trying to install the mysql gem on osx.
  660. # [18:19] <Michael> </rant>
  661. # [18:19] <rupl> paul_irish: exactly -1 jpegs will be used
  662. # [18:19] <paul_irish> :D
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  664. # [18:21] <Michael> paul_irish: You enjoying your slides over there from floor to floor?
  665. # [18:21] <Michael> Google has slides, we got smaller cubes lol
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  676. # [18:31] <JonathanNeal> mornin
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  681. # [18:36] <paul_irish> hi JonathanNeal
  682. # [18:38] <JonathanNeal> hi
  683. # [18:38] <JonathanNeal> Testing Alex' latest code.
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  693. # [18:49] <jarek> does any browser support SVG favicons?
  694. # [18:49] <jarek> it doesn't seem to work on Chrome
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  698. # [18:53] <miketaylr> jarek: http://dahlström.net/svg/favicon/favicon.html
  699. # [18:53] <miketaylr> (don't actually know which browsers support that, though)
  700. # [18:53] <miketaylr> possibly none
  701. # [18:54] <jarek> I tested Chrome Canary and Firefox Nightly, both fail to render SVG favicons
  702. # [18:55] <shepazu> that's a pity
  703. # [18:56] <jarek> is anyone here running IE10? :P
  704. # [18:57] <miketaylr> not supported in Opera Next either, bummer
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  712. # [19:07] <chovy> good morning.
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  717. # [19:10] <drublic> jarek and miketaylr: Tested on Chrome 15 and it works. i'm on a mac
  718. # [19:12] <miketaylr> drublic: getting the frowny here: http://miketaylr.com/post/acaac0d3.png
  719. # [19:12] <miketaylr> sweet URL, chrome
  720. # [19:13] <jarek> drublic: http://xn--dahlstrm-t4a.net/svg/favicon/favicon.html shows sad face for me, Chrome 17.0.919.0 for Mac
  721. # [19:13] <drublic> miketaylr: f**k. I should have read the instructions until the end… sorry!
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  723. # [19:13] <miketaylr> haha no worries drublic
  724. # [19:13] <drublic> :)
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  726. # [19:14] <jarek> well, at least it renders the PNG favicon
  727. # [19:14] <jarek> the ICO format used to be de facto standard (no idea why)
  728. # [19:15] <JonathanNeal> paul_irish: I was experimenting with different ways to get around the htc file.
  729. # [19:16] <JonathanNeal> Namely behavior: url(#objectName) where the object was an object type="text/x-component" or classid with the matching htc classid.
  730. # [19:16] <JonathanNeal> No luck thus far.
  731. # [19:17] <JonathanNeal> Does anyone know any microsoft peeps I could contact about this>?
  732. # [19:19] <paul_irish> JonathanNeal: i would look in the comments of msdn pages for relevat stuff
  733. # [19:19] <paul_irish> some msft guys commented there sometimes
  734. # [19:20] <JonathanNeal> According to http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms535922(v=vs.85).aspx you can do object.addBehavior(sUrl) where sURL can be #objID where the ID attribute that is specified in an object tag for the binary implementation of a behavior.
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  740. # [19:27] <jarek> what's the most performant way for hiding elements temporarily?
  741. # [19:29] <jarek> "display: none; display: block;" or "visibility: hidden; visibility: visible;" or "-webkit-transform: translateY(-9999); -webkit-transform: translateY(0);
  742. # [19:29] <jarek> I guess that display block/none is the slowest one because it causes reflows if the element is static
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  745. # [19:30] <jarek> but is there any difference between setting visibility to none vs transforming the element offscreen?
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  747. # [19:32] <ghinda> what's the best way to markup tabs?
  748. # [19:32] <jarek> ghinda: tabs are usually coded with unordered list
  749. # [19:33] <ghinda> jarek: how about the content?
  750. # [19:33] <drublic> ghinda: I would go with sections i guess…
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  752. # [19:34] <jarek> ghinda: it doesn't really matter, use whatever makes most sense to you
  753. # [19:37] <jarek> I think that nav tag could also be suitable for tabs
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  755. # [19:37] <jarek> but afaik search engines don't care that much about semantics
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  763. # [19:46] <chovy> jarek: that's incorrect.
  764. # [19:46] <chovy> semantics make a big difference.
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  766. # [19:47] <jarek> chovy: I realize now that I have misunderstood ghinda
  767. # [19:47] <jarek> I meant tabs like in Drupal where they are used for linking to other pages
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  771. # [19:48] <jarek> if clicking on the tab should switch visibility of some content then <nav> does not make sense
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  773. # [19:48] <Pomax> contextual navigation?
  774. # [19:50] <ghinda> I see the Zurb guys are using two lists with they're tabs. one for the nav (dl) and one for the content (ul). http://foundation.zurb.com/docs/ui.php
  775. # [19:50] <ghinda> is this correct?
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  781. # [19:54] <jarek> I don't think that using either UL or DD or SECTION would make any difference for search bot
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  783. # [19:54] <jarek> search bots care about relationship between elements and how important they are
  784. # [19:54] <ghinda> jarek: I don't really care about bots. just semantics.
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  786. # [19:56] <Pomax> semantics *for what*?
  787. # [19:56] <Pomax> what has to end up interpreting your html?
  788. # [19:58] <jarek> with XHTML5 we can even create our own tags :)
  789. # [19:58] <jarek> actually, this was possible back in XHTML 1
  790. # [19:59] <jarek> why not just create <tab> tag?
  791. # [20:00] <Pomax> or use an indicative attribute for whatever system must parse your html, a la "data-semantic='...'"
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  795. # [20:01] <dangerousdave> anyone created a webapp for a mobile touch device?
  796. # [20:05] <ghinda> nothing special has to parse my tags
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  798. # [20:05] <ghinda> I'm just trying to get the best possible markup from the html5 spec
  799. # [20:06] <Pomax> in that case the entire navigation block goes in <nav>
  800. # [20:07] <Pomax> if your tabs signify different content navigation blocks, you stick <nav> around each of them. If the tabs are different blocks for the same content, I'd say <nav> goes around the collection.
  801. # [20:08] <jarek> ghinda: from the HTML5 spec:
  802. # [20:08] <jarek> "Examples of sections would be chapters, the various tabbed pages in a tabbed dialog box, or the numbered sections of a thesis."
  803. # [20:08] * ericduran is now known as ericduran|mtg
  804. # [20:08] <jarek> ghinda: so according to the spec SECTION tag would be most suitable
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  813. # [20:22] <paul_irish> JonathanNeal: agnostic html5 shim?
  814. # [20:22] <paul_irish> oh nvm
  815. # [20:23] <JonathanNeal> paul_irish: here
  816. # [20:23] <JonathanNeal> https://gist.github.com/1317227
  817. # [20:23] <paul_irish> JonathanNeal: you couldnt make an agnostic innershiv though
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  819. # [20:24] <paul_irish> although
  820. # [20:24] <JonathanNeal> are you sure? couldn't this same approach be applied?
  821. # [20:24] <paul_irish> baesd on Compoenent Model stuff, it'd be good to shiv any elements that start with `x-`
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  824. # [20:25] <JonathanNeal> i was being silly in the documentation, but the idea is there.
  825. # [20:26] <paul_irish> hmm i guess fragments have gEBTN ..
  826. # [20:26] <paul_irish> doesnt this body.innerHTML = body.innerHTML mean all scripts are reevaluated?
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  829. # [20:28] <JonathanNeal> no
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  835. # [20:32] <JonathanNeal> and it works for print too.
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  847. # [20:39] <bencc> what browsers plan to support webrtc?
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  853. # [20:41] <paul_irish> chrome, ff, opera
  854. # [20:42] <paul_irish> webrtc uses VP8 so that means it starts to get awkward with safari, ie
  855. # [20:42] <chovy> what is webrtc?
  856. # [20:42] <paul_irish> ?g webrtc
  857. # [20:42] <bot-t> paul_irish, WebRTC - http://www.webrtc.org/
  858. # [20:43] <paul_irish> peer2peer audio/video. noise cancellation built in. adaptive bitrate..
  859. # [20:43] <paul_irish> aka skype in 10 lines of javascript
  860. # [20:43] <chovy> why would you just use sockets?
  861. # [20:44] <bencc> so IE and Safari are unlikely to support webrtc?
  862. # [20:44] <chovy> p2p audio/video?
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  865. # [20:48] <paul_irish> g about codec politics :)
  866. # [20:48] <paul_irish> guh. irc client. >.< was saying bencc i have no idea. i just know vp8 is involved. that introduces codec politics. at that point it gets messy and i get uninterested. :)
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  870. # [20:51] <bencc> :(
  871. # [20:51] <bencc> everybody fight and adobe wins
  872. # [20:51] <chovy> does anyone know how to see data attributes of an element in Firebugh?
  873. # [20:51] <chovy> Firebug*
  874. # [20:52] <JonathanNeal> HAHA
  875. # [20:52] <JonathanNeal> well, doing it this way, i didn't even need the js file anymore, paul_irish.
  876. # [20:53] <JonathanNeal> now it would be great if i could find a way to port this into js so i didn't need the htc file.
  877. # [20:53] <paul_irish> chovy: data attributes? wat
  878. # [20:53] <paul_irish> also firebug? wat
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  881. # [20:56] <JonathanNeal> like this https://gist.github.com/1317227
  882. # [20:57] <chovy> <div data-foo="Foo">
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  888. # [21:05] <franksalim_> "Firefox with Bing" will probably support WebRTC...
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  915. # [21:38] <jarek> what would be the most optimal audio format if I'm targeting latest version of Chrome, Safari 5 and IE10?
  916. # [21:38] <jarek> MP3, right?
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  918. # [21:40] <jarek> or perhaps WAV would be more suitable for clips that are shorter than 1s?
  919. # [21:40] <jarek> it's important for me that the playback is instant
  920. # [21:41] <paul_irish> mp3 with vorbis fallback :p
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  923. # [21:41] <paul_irish> i dont think codec has an effect on playback latency.
  924. # [21:41] <paul_irish> shouldn't, for sure
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  930. # [21:44] <jarek> Opera and Firefox still don't support MP3?
  931. # [21:44] <jarek> I have found some codec support tables on html5doctor, but they are outdated
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  934. # [21:45] <chovy> firequery is cool
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  938. # [21:48] <jarek> chovy: I can't stand Firebug since I learned Chrome Dev Tools
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  940. # [21:48] <chovy> jarek: i see
  941. # [21:49] <jarek> chovy: with the introduction of chrome.experimental.devtools API, it should be possible to create simillar extension for Chrome
  942. # [21:49] <jarek> unfortunately no one seems to be interested...
  943. # [21:50] <chovy> i don't use chrome much.
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  951. # [22:02] <jeffsmykil> I'm told this is the best place to ask canvas questions
  952. # [22:02] * manuchill_ is now known as manchill
  953. # [22:03] * manchill is now known as manuchill
  954. # [22:03] <paul_irish> jarek: codec support hasnt changed in a year :/
  955. # [22:03] <paul_irish> jeffsmykil: ya
  956. # [22:03] <jeffsmykil> paul_irish: I have this poorly written example
  957. # [22:03] <jeffsmykil> http://jsfiddle.net/B5MFQ/2/
  958. # [22:04] <jeffsmykil> and I was wondering why when dragged the boxes are taking off like a bat out of hell exponentially
  959. # [22:04] <paul_irish> hahah wow
  960. # [22:04] <jeffsmykil> yeah
  961. # [22:04] <miketaylr> jarek: you shouldn't hold your breath for opera to support .mp3 either ;)
  962. # [22:04] <jeffsmykil> not the desired effect lol
  963. # [22:05] <jeffsmykil> paul_irish: any insight would be appreciated
  964. # [22:06] <paul_irish> jeffsmykil: first..
  965. # [22:06] <paul_irish> console.log('x: ', positionX, ', y: ', positionY);
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  967. # [22:08] <paul_irish> jeffsmykil: its simple arithmetic, really
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  969. # [22:08] <paul_irish> always wanted to say that. :p
  970. # [22:08] <paul_irish> you're calculating newmousepos - initialmousepos
  971. # [22:09] <jeffsmykil> right
  972. # [22:09] <paul_irish> but you want to move box from newboxpos - lastboxpos
  973. # [22:09] <paul_irish> initial vs last
  974. # [22:09] <paul_irish> cuz translate is kinda funny
  975. # [22:10] <jeffsmykil> sorry I have a tiny little brain
  976. # [22:10] <jeffsmykil> like a dinosaur
  977. # [22:10] <Pomax> "translate and scale don't reset" =)
  978. # [22:10] <Pomax> you're adding translations onto translations
  979. # [22:10] <jeffsmykil> hence the exponential
  980. # [22:10] <Pomax> exactly
  981. # [22:11] <jeffsmykil> i need to add translations to box position
  982. # [22:11] <Pomax> stick this at the end, and it'll be fine:
  983. # [22:11] <Pomax> context.scale(1/scaleX,1/scaleY);
  984. # [22:11] <Pomax> context.translate(-positionX,-positionY);
  985. # [22:11] <jeffsmykil> at the end of my draw function?
  986. # [22:11] <Pomax> or record the "current" scale and translation at the start of draw() and then restore ot that after you're done drawing.
  987. # [22:12] <jeffsmykil> or the mouse move function
  988. # [22:12] <Pomax> at the end of your draw function
  989. # [22:12] <Pomax> make them the last two lines to undo the translate and scale you issue at the start of your draw function
  990. # [22:12] <jeffsmykil> you fixed it
  991. # [22:12] <jeffsmykil> you sir are amazing
  992. # [22:12] <Pomax> paul's advice is still valid too, though
  993. # [22:13] <jeffsmykil> yes he is smart too
  994. # [22:13] <jeffsmykil> new problem though
  995. # [22:13] <Pomax> your code will now not remember the last active mouse coordinates, so if you try to move something after moving it, it will teleport
  996. # [22:13] <jeffsmykil> now it resets to the original position
  997. # [22:14] <Pomax> si. I usually write these things as translations based on some start offset, plus the delta.
  998. # [22:14] <jeffsmykil> so I need to save the state after every draw function?
  999. # [22:14] <Pomax> mousedown -> startx/starty = mouse, mousemoved -> if(down) { delta = mousex/y - startx/y), draw() -> translate(startx+deltax, starty+deltay);
  1000. # [22:14] <jeffsmykil> so i remembers
  1001. # [22:15] <Pomax> sorry, mousedown -> startx/y = mouse x/y; deltax/y = 0;
  1002. # [22:15] <jeffsmykil> ok im going to work on this some more
  1003. # [22:15] <jeffsmykil> thank you for your help
  1004. # [22:15] <jeffsmykil> you are both gentlemen and scholars
  1005. # [22:16] <paul_irish> Pomax++
  1006. # [22:17] <jeffsmykil> i found a tutorial
  1007. # [22:17] <jeffsmykil> im going to try and read through that a few times too
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  1009. # [22:18] <manuchill> paul_irish, congrats on the jquery standards, very nice initiative
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  1017. # [22:28] <jeffsmykil> Pomax: context.restore would do the same thing?
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  1020. # [22:32] <jeffsmykil> as context.scale(1/scaleX,1/scaleY);
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  1022. # [22:37] <Pomax> jeffsmykil, http://jsfiddle.net/B5MFQ/8/
  1023. # [22:37] <Pomax> context.restore will reset translation and scale to whatever it was when you called context.save()
  1024. # [22:38] <jeffsmykil> gotcha
  1025. # [22:38] * jeffsmykil examines your code
  1026. # [22:39] <Pomax> (note that committing your delta between mouse interactions is fairly important =)
  1027. # [22:39] <paul_irish> ^
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  1032. # [22:49] * chovy hates working with mousemove
  1033. # [22:52] <jeffsmykil> ugh the enigneer who originally did this used 0,0 as the flipped of canvas
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  1036. # [22:54] <jeffsmykil> wow I just made the flying solitaire card effect by mistake
  1037. # [22:56] <Pomax> =D
  1038. # [22:56] <Pomax> clearly that is not a mistake, you made it by chance.
  1039. # [22:56] <jeffsmykil> i can't do what I wanted yet, but I can take microsoft down!
  1040. # [22:56] <Pomax> going to be honest, I've not played solitair on a computer since windows 3.11
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  1042. # [22:57] <jeffsmykil> it did it in that too :-p
  1043. # [22:57] <jeffsmykil> when you beat it
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  1046. # [22:59] <jeffsmykil> Pomax: is there a matrix translate in canvas?
  1047. # [23:00] <Pomax> you mean matrix transform?
  1048. # [23:00] <Pomax> (translate is only translate)
  1049. # [23:00] <jeffsmykil> yes, yes I do
  1050. # [23:00] <jeffsmykil> like in -webkit
  1051. # [23:00] <Pomax> there is
  1052. # [23:00] <Pomax> transform(m11, m12, m21, m22, dx, dy)
  1053. # [23:01] <jeffsmykil> ugh this might actually work lol
  1054. # [23:01] <jeffsmykil> one more question
  1055. # [23:01] <jeffsmykil> mobile browsers and canvas?
  1056. # [23:01] <jeffsmykil> yeah ney
  1057. # [23:01] <Pomax> so for RT it's your standanrd (cos(t), -sin(t), sin(t), cos(t), tx, ty)
  1058. # [23:01] <Pomax> mobile browsers without canvas are the past.
  1059. # [23:01] <Pomax> wbegl is still iffy, but they better have canvas, or they're obsolete
  1060. # [23:02] <Pomax> *webgl
  1061. # [23:02] <jeffsmykil> doing maps in canvas totally absurd?
  1062. # [23:02] <Pomax> oops, sorry, transform order is different.
  1063. # [23:03] <Pomax> standard RT is (cos(t), sin(t), -sin(t), cos(t), tx, ty)
  1064. # [23:03] <Pomax> depends on what kind of maps you're doing.
  1065. # [23:03] <jeffsmykil> well I did them with static images, but in the long run im thinking the time i put into this may be trumped by making the images
  1066. # [23:03] <jeffsmykil> Pomax: realtime
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  1068. # [23:04] <Pomax> yes but what are you thinking of. real time geolocation on a map?
  1069. # [23:04] <Pomax> canvas should be fine for that.
  1070. # [23:05] <jeffsmykil> yeah we do asset tracking
  1071. # [23:05] <jeffsmykil> i make lots of ajax calls
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  1073. # [23:08] * manuchill_ is now known as manuchill
  1074. # [23:08] <Pomax> as long as you make the transport data required small, you should be fine.
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  1080. # [23:12] <jeffsmykil> ty for your help guys
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  1101. # [23:58] * GoOz is now known as GoOz`aw
  1102. # [23:59] * Quits: johnkpaul (~johnkpaul@69-92-113-53.cpe.cableone.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  1103. # Session Close: Thu Oct 27 00:00:00 2011

The end :)