/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-10-28 / end

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  69. # [01:49] <ryanseddon> http://www.phpclasses.org/blog/post/162-Using-PHPGTK-to-serve-Web-Applications-to-HTML-5-Browsers.html
  70. # [01:50] <chovy> andrewjbaker: 72 versions of IE.
  71. # [01:50] <paul_irish> andrewjbaker: canvas is the topic
  72. # [01:50] <andrewjbaker> ^^
  73. # [01:50] <andrewjbaker> paul_irish, thx mate. I caught up w/ smus over on #bbg.
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  76. # [01:56] <chovy> damn.
  77. # [01:56] <chovy> 72 versions of canvas
  78. # [01:56] <paul_irish> boom
  79. # [01:56] <andrewjbaker> 72?!
  80. # [01:56] <jarek> why everyone is using canvas for charts?
  81. # [01:56] <Pomax> ooh, I'll have vanilla, green tea, and caramel coffee fudge plz
  82. # [01:56] <jarek> SVG is so much easier for charting
  83. # [01:56] <Pomax> jarek, tried a 5000 node SVG document?
  84. # [01:56] <danielfilho> jarek: I was talking about it last week with a friend of mine. using canvas on charts.
  85. # [01:57] <danielfilho> I think it's most for the k00l-factor.
  86. # [01:57] <Pomax> browsers hate it. a 5000 element JS array and selective rendering on canvas is much easier
  87. # [01:57] <Pomax> those are my reasons, at least.
  88. # [01:57] <danielfilho> but it all depends on the kind of chart, and features.
  89. # [01:57] <jarek> Pomax: yep, browsers render even big SVG documents pretty fast
  90. # [01:57] <Pomax> not with animated elements, in my experience.
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  92. # [01:58] <Pomax> canvas makes it less work.
  93. # [01:58] <jarek> Pomax: the only problematic part of SVG are filters which are slow and not fully supported by browsers
  94. # [01:58] <Pomax> and SMIL being hardly supported
  95. # [01:58] <jarek> Pomax: SMIL is dead
  96. # [01:58] <Pomax> exactly
  97. # [01:58] <jarek> Pomax: the future of SVG animation will probably be CSS
  98. # [01:58] <Pomax> yeah, good luck getting people who liked the animation events in SMIL to like that change
  99. # [01:59] <andrewjbaker> ryanseddon, yeah, I saw that earlier dude. Not quite sure what to make of it yet.
  100. # [01:59] <Pomax> it's like going from powerpoint to programming the algorithms for powerpoint =P
  101. # [01:59] <Pomax> they'll live, but its' still a good reason to go "well why would I use SVG at all, then"
  102. # [01:59] <ryanseddon> andrewjbaker: looks pretty sweet hopefully it will get attention and people will port to ruby and node
  103. # [02:00] <Pomax> keeping it in javascript and canvas gives me greater control than relying on the DOM and CSS to do the right thing.
  104. # [02:00] <jarek> Pomax: speaking of events
  105. # [02:00] <Pomax> that said... someone writes a good, fast library that uses SVG, I will use it
  106. # [02:01] <jarek> Pomax: with SVG you can use DOM which is almost the same as HTML DOM
  107. # [02:01] <jarek> Pomax: with canvas you have nothing, just low level API
  108. # [02:01] <jarek> (unless you use a framework)
  109. # [02:02] <paul_irish> friend of mine used doob's harmony (canvas) to make a drawing app. afterwards he asked me how to make an undo feature to take back the last drawing action
  110. # [02:02] <Pomax> precisely. At least I know what I have. With SVG, I know I get a lot of DOM administration slapped on top.
  111. # [02:02] <paul_irish> i was like.. :/
  112. # [02:02] <paul_irish> ?gl
  113. # [02:02] <bot-t> http://goodluckwiththatdude.com
  114. # [02:02] <Pomax> "oh, you just snapshoot the imagedata at every operation" =P
  115. # [02:02] <andrewjbaker> LOL.
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  117. # [02:02] <paul_irish> hahah
  118. # [02:04] <ryanseddon> This canvas thing has undo http://canvashop.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/src/CanvaShop.html
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  120. # [02:04] <jarek> what is the best SVG filter editor?
  121. # [02:04] <andrewjbaker> Can't you save the state in canvas?
  122. # [02:04] <jarek> or rather I should ask, is there any other SVG filter editor besides the one shipped with Inkscape?
  123. # [02:05] <ryanseddon> http://code.google.com/p/canvashop/source/browse/src/Undo/UndoManager.js
  124. # [02:05] <andrewjbaker> Or does that only apply to things like fill style, etc.
  125. # [02:05] <jarek> it would be great to have something like this, but for SVG: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/dfhleemkcbiadffhciifgholbodejnjb
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  127. # [02:08] <paul_irish> jarek: good question. i want something to offers better svg filters. right now its manual and awkward
  128. # [02:08] <paul_irish> whoaaaa that is hot
  129. # [02:08] <jarek> paul_irish: there was a discussion on Inkscape's mailing list to implement node-based filter editor similar to the one in Blender
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  131. # [02:09] <Pomax> that's a lot of iframes
  132. # [02:10] <jarek> this would be also awsome: http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/SpecFilterEditorUI
  133. # [02:10] <jarek> considering the fact that IE10 will be supporting SVG filters, such tool is a must
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  135. # [02:10] <Pomax> there's http://svg-edit.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/editor/svg-editor.html but it's not particularly suited for filters
  136. # [02:11] <jarek> Pomax: last time I tried SVG Edit it did not even have Gausian blur (or I couldn't find it)
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  138. # [02:12] <Pomax> it does now, but not a whole lot else
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  155. # [02:48] <jarek> is there a simple way to prevent browser from inserting html tags without my knowledge when editing div with contentEditable="true"?
  156. # [02:49] <jarek> e.g. when I press enter several times then browser injects a bunch of <div> and <br/> tags
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  158. # [02:55] <jarek> I can see that KeyboardEvent objects have new property called "which" on Chrome
  159. # [02:55] <jarek> how is it different from "charCode" property?
  160. # [02:56] <jarek> pressing enter results in both "charCode" and "which" having the value of "13"
  161. # [02:58] <jarek> http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-3-Events/#legacy-key-attributes
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  163. # [02:58] <jarek> ohh great, they are both outdated
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  166. # [03:01] <ryanseddon> jarek: keyCode and which give you a number corresponding to the key pressed whereas charCode gives you the unicode value, of course it's not really that simple and it's a bit of a mind field cross browser
  167. # [03:02] <jarek> the DOM3 spec says:
  168. # [03:02] <jarek> "Authors should use the KeyboardEvent.char and KeyboardEvent.key attributes instead of the charCode and keyCode attributes, respectively."
  169. # [03:02] <jarek> but both KeyboardEvent.char and KeyboardEvent.key return undefined on Chrome
  170. # [03:03] <ryanseddon> file a bug
  171. # [03:03] <ryanseddon> crbug.com/new
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  206. # [04:38] <jarek> is there an event that would fire *after* user has typed a char?
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  209. # [04:39] <jarek> keydown and textInput events seem to be firing before
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  212. # [04:44] <moshee> jarek, try... keyup?
  213. # [04:45] <jarek> moshee: thanks, it works
  214. # [04:46] <jarek> what's the difference between keyup and textInput?
  215. # [04:46] <jarek> textInput fire also when the text pasted, right?
  216. # [04:46] <jarek> is there separate onpaste event?
  217. # [04:46] <jarek> s/fire/fires
  218. # [04:47] <jarek> s/the text pasted/the text is pasted
  219. # [04:47] <jarek> sorry for typos
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  222. # [04:49] <jarek> nvm, the 'paste' event is obviously called 'paste'
  223. # [04:49] <moshee> http://help.dottoro.com/larrqqck.php I like to look at this page for js events
  224. # [04:51] <jarek> "Occurs before the contents of the clipboard are pasted into the document."
  225. # [04:52] <jarek> but I need to fire an action after the text was pasted
  226. # [04:52] <jarek> should I be using a timeout?
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  291. # [07:24] <chovy> oh, he left.
  292. # [07:24] <chovy> i was going to say onblur
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  396. # [11:48] <yamahaalex37> does anyone here effectively use adsense?
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  405. # [12:14] <OzDave_mbp> I was offered monetization just recently for you tube which uses that payment system
  406. # [12:14] <OzDave_mbp> I have only just started however
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  426. # [13:33] <Guest6284> hey im new can u invit me on bbm 23bb1b43
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  512. # [16:01] <moo-_-> http://i.imgur.com/mZcfi.jpg
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  608. # [18:10] <cybersholt_> anybody know how i can remedy html5 forms in safari 5, http://miketaylr.com/pres/html5/forms2.html if you type text in the first element you get assertion failed
  609. # [18:11] <cybersholt_> im getting the same in my forms
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  611. # [18:12] <hober> cybersholt_: hmm
  612. # [18:13] <cybersholt_> i agree
  613. # [18:13] <cybersholt_> hmm is what i was thinkin
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  615. # [18:14] <hober> you get the assertions failing at page load time
  616. # [18:15] <cybersholt_> on my form yes but on that link no not until i type somethin in the first element
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  619. # [18:16] <hober> what version of safari do you have?
  620. # [18:16] <miketaylr> i get the same in Version 5.1.1 (6534.51.22)/Snow Leopard
  621. # [18:17] <cybersholt_> 5,1,1
  622. # [18:17] <cybersholt_> it happens when i add text to a basic input example from my form <input type="text" name="patient_reg" value="" id="patient_reg">
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  625. # [18:17] <cybersholt_> i also had a friend try this on a mac and same thing
  626. # [18:18] * miketaylr is on a mac
  627. # [18:18] <miketaylr> maybe just a web inspector bug?
  628. # [18:18] <hober> on miketaylr's page, i see 12 failed assertions at initial plt. then more when blurring from invalid inputs on that page
  629. # [18:18] <hober> but i'm not running exactly the same version as you, to be fair
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  631. # [18:18] <cybersholt_> understandable
  632. # [18:19] <JonathanNeal> Hiya
  633. # [18:19] <hober> are these causing you trouble?
  634. # [18:19] <JonathanNeal> Hiya
  635. # [18:19] <cybersholt_> yes
  636. # [18:19] <hober> what sort of trouble?
  637. # [18:19] <cybersholt_> i cant submit my form it wont pass validation
  638. # [18:19] <cybersholt_> i've got a real basic jquery validator
  639. # [18:19] <miketaylr> let me remove that old ga.js stuff to see if it's interfering
  640. # [18:21] <miketaylr> perhaps a regression of some sorts in the web inspector?
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  642. # [18:22] <hober> weird. i'm able to submit miketaylr's page...
  643. # [18:22] <hober> sounds like a weird interaction between your jquery validator and the native validation stuff
  644. # [18:22] <cybersholt_> my form is in a ajax popup and relys on a json response after submit
  645. # [18:23] <cybersholt_> even if i force it to submit it zero's out values that throw that error
  646. # [18:23] <hober> if you could come up with a reduction, along the lines of mike's page, that would be really helpful
  647. # [18:24] <cybersholt_> all right thanks for the help i've got a bit to finish up and ill try and get that up for ya
  648. # [18:24] <cybersholt_> what time zone are you in hober?
  649. # [18:25] <hober> cool, thanks. add it as an attachment to a bug on bugs.webkit.org & privmsg me the bug # :)
  650. # [18:25] <cybersholt_> all right thanks again
  651. # [18:25] <hober> cybersholt_: right now, UTC-7, but soon to be UTC-8.
  652. # [18:25] <hober> np
  653. # [18:25] <miketaylr> ?cc
  654. # [18:25] <bot-t> CASE CLOASED >: |
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  661. # [18:32] <jarek> Hello
  662. # [18:32] <jarek> do you know when "let" statement will be supported in Chrome and Safari?
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  665. # [18:33] <hober> jarek: since they have different javascript engines, the answer is probably "at different times"
  666. # [18:33] <jarek> it's already working in Firefox and it's so much more convenient than "var"
  667. # [18:33] <jarek> is there a JS source compiler that would allow me for using "let"?
  668. # [18:34] <jarek> I guess this is what Coffeescript does, but I don't want to rewrite my entire code
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  687. # [19:10] <Pomax> jarek, what do you want "let" to do
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  690. # [19:12] <jarek> Pomax: I want it to do what it's designed for
  691. # [19:12] <jarek> Pomax: declarare variables that have block scope
  692. # [19:12] <Pomax> it's not designed for anything in ECMAscript, it's a future reserved word, meaning it might never be added
  693. # [19:13] <Pomax> serious question: why would you need that in javascript?
  694. # [19:13] <Pomax> can you do better memory managements by handholding individual variables?
  695. # [19:13] <jarek> Pomax: Brendan Eich in one of his pressentations said that "self" will be part of ECMAScript.next for sure
  696. # [19:13] <jarek> s/self/let
  697. # [19:13] <Pomax> I hate python's "self".
  698. # [19:13] <Pomax> so much.
  699. # [19:14] <jarek> sorry for mistake, I meant "let". But it would be nice to have "self" as well
  700. # [19:14] <Pomax> no, there is no reason to have self.
  701. # [19:14] <jarek> Pomax: but the scoping of 'this' is so messed up
  702. # [19:14] <Pomax> I understand people think they want let, but I don't see why you actually would.
  703. # [19:15] <Pomax> this is the calling function's scope, it's a really really simple and consistent rule
  704. # [19:15] <Pomax> it's very simpe, just nothing like what you're used to from languages that use classical hierarchy OO
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  706. # [19:17] <Pomax> as again a serious consideration, if you really need block scoping for a var, maybe your block should be a function. Otherwise just declare it wherever you want in your function using var, and just write good code.
  707. # [19:17] <jarek> Pomax: with "let" I don't have to declare all my variables at the top of the function
  708. # [19:17] <Pomax> you already don't.
  709. # [19:17] <Pomax> as long as you make sure to use "var" they will be defined in the same scope as "this"
  710. # [19:17] <Pomax> leave "var" off, and it's magically global and clobbering all over same-named vars.
  711. # [19:17] <jarek> Pomax: yes, but this is bug-prone when you are writting long functions
  712. # [19:18] <Pomax> which is why writing long function is a good indication you're doing it wrong.
  713. # [19:18] <jarek> Pomax: "let" would make things a lot simpler
  714. # [19:18] <Pomax> a very long function actually does more than one thing. make it call functions that wrap each thing, so you can also unit test those functions
  715. # [19:18] <jarek> Pomax: but all languages have block scope...
  716. # [19:18] <jarek> Pomax: it just feels more natural
  717. # [19:18] <Pomax> that's a nonsense argument =)
  718. # [19:19] <Pomax> if everyone drives a ford, I still want a 1963 AC Cobra
  719. # [19:19] <Pomax> javascript has different scoping rules, you can write awesome code if you stick to its rules instead of trying to use it as another language
  720. # [19:20] <Pomax> "let" will definitely make it easier to use block scope vars. but the serious question is: what the hell code are you writing that this block scoping makes a genuine difference to the program while it runs
  721. # [19:20] <jarek> Pomax: but even Dougles Crocford says that lack of block scoping is an awful error in the language
  722. # [19:20] <Pomax> because if it can, you are writing properly bad code.
  723. # [19:20] <Pomax> otherwise the difference in speed and memory footprint will be trivially small
  724. # [19:21] <Pomax> the nice thing about big name people is I don't always agree with them.
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  731. # [19:26] <xonecas> o/ OH HAII!!
  732. # [19:27] <xonecas> niftylettuce: are you there?
  733. # [19:28] <chovy> good morning.
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  738. # [19:39] <xonecas> g'morning chovy
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  844. # [22:45] <niftylettuce> xonecas: heyo
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  849. # [23:01] <rasmusth> does anybody know if videojs can play mkv files?
  850. # [23:03] <xonecas> rasmusth: no, it can't unless they have added it recently
  851. # [23:03] <rasmusth> o thanks
  852. # [23:03] <rasmusth> how about mov?
  853. # [23:04] <xonecas> if it's encoded in h.264
  854. # [23:04] <xonecas> see videojs.com
  855. # [23:05] <xonecas> they say there what formats are supported
  856. # [23:06] <rasmusth> okay
  857. # [23:06] <xonecas> niftylettuce: have you used require.js ?
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  863. # [23:18] <niftylettuce> xonecas: yeah
  864. # [23:18] <moo-_-> require.js rocks
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  866. # [23:19] <moo-_-> however, I ended up editing all JS lib source code files to make them more require.js'ish
  867. # [23:19] <moo-_-> makes things easier if all source code declares itself as require.js compatible
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The end :)