/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-10-31 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Oct 31 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
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  38. # [01:19] <jarek> is it possible to have non-rectangular button without the use of SVG?
  39. # [01:19] <jarek> I mean button with non-rectangular click/hover area
  40. # [01:22] <jarek> even if I set high border-radius value (so that the button looks like circle), the click area stays rectangular
  41. # [01:22] <Pomax> border-radius?
  42. # [01:22] <Pomax> hm
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  48. # [01:26] <Pomax> jarek, what about using a <map>?
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  51. # [01:28] <sappytree> dunno
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  63. # [01:38] <jarek> Pomax: thanks, I didn't know that map tag has shape="circle" attribute
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  66. # [01:41] <jarek> http://www.w3schools.com/tags/tryit.asp?filename=tryhtml_areamap
  67. # [01:41] <jarek> meh, this is a bit verbose
  68. # [01:41] <jarek> I think I will go with SVG
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  95. # [02:42] <jarek> is it possible to detect when scrollbar has been hovered from JS?
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  98. # [02:43] <jarek> I mean something like document.addEventListener('scrollbarhover', blah)
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  150. # [04:44] <JonathanNeal> <marquee>
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  152. # [04:46] <hkhalid> yo
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  717. # [17:30] <hkhalid> sup weebles
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  721. # [17:34] <hober> yo
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  730. # [17:38] <hkhalid> hober
  731. # [17:38] <hkhalid> what you doing
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  733. # [17:39] <hober> I'm in the CSS WG meeting at TPAC at the moment
  734. # [17:39] <hkhalid> with html5 though
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  737. # [17:40] <hober> oh. I'll be in the HTML WG's meeting later this week...
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  739. # [17:40] <hkhalid> i want html5 games for Android
  740. # [17:40] <hkhalid> i hate java
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  745. # [17:44] <hober> I don't really know much about Android
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  754. # [17:53] <andrewjbaker> So Uint8ClampedArray is replacing CanvasPixelArray... hmm...
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  760. # [17:56] <andrewjbaker> That won't work if we end up w/ graphics cards that are capable of storing color info. at >32-bit become commonplace. We won't be able to take advantage of the additional color info.
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  767. # [18:02] <andrewjbaker> How do I go about making a proposal for an alteration/addition to the HTML5 spec. for 2D canvas?
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  774. # [18:06] <hober> andrewjbaker: email whatwg@whatwg.org
  775. # [18:08] <andrewjbaker> hober, thx dude.
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  802. # [18:34] <sic1> Mornin yall! Does an image set as a background-image in css(or with js) get created as a HTMLImageElement somewhere?
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  840. # [19:07] <paul_irish> necolas: over here
  841. # [19:07] <necolas> hi
  842. # [19:07] <paul_irish> necolas: just to confirm .. our concern is for the initial HTML that we ship
  843. # [19:07] <necolas> ok
  844. # [19:07] <paul_irish> as anyone opting into buildscript is okay with funky markup
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  846. # [19:08] <necolas> yeah
  847. # [19:08] <paul_irish> oh you gotta go?
  848. # [19:08] <paul_irish> kk
  849. # [19:08] <necolas> so are you thinking of dropping the build script from the default?
  850. # [19:09] <paul_irish> havent considered that
  851. # [19:09] <necolas> oh, i thought that was what you were implying
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  854. # [19:10] <necolas> one of the benefits of the comment approach is that it doesnt affect the default html if you dont run the build. but yeah, it would involve a custom syntax.
  855. # [19:11] <necolas> paul_irish: i'll ping you when i get home. im not wedded to the comments if there is some smarter way
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  857. # [19:11] <paul_irish> right
  858. # [19:11] <paul_irish> kk
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  902. # [19:55] <d4rklit3> hi
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  904. # [19:55] <d4rklit3> can i draw divs into a <canvas> and have them behave as an element normally would in <canvas>
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  913. # [20:06] <Ms2ger> No
  914. # [20:07] <hkhalid> any of you dudes making the games?
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  945. # [20:34] <shawn_dones> has anyone seen a microformat example of a restaurant menu?
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  983. # [21:11] <necolas> paul_irish: ping.
  984. # [21:12] <JonathanNeal> necolas: accidental return
  985. # [21:12] <JonathanNeal> how's it going anyway, ol' friend?
  986. # [21:13] <JonathanNeal> Haven't chatted since the the early days of normalize back in ... earlier this year :)
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  988. # [21:13] <necolas> JonathanNeal: hey man, good. how are you?
  989. # [21:13] <necolas> i was just checking out your clock in ot
  990. # [21:13] <JonathanNeal> Pretty good, pretty good. Married, moved, career shifted, living life.
  991. # [21:13] <necolas> wow...just a few things then!
  992. # [21:14] <JonathanNeal> Yea.
  993. # [21:14] <necolas> hope it all went well. what's the career shift?
  994. # [21:14] <JonathanNeal> It was a shift from web development at a big company, to web development at a small company.
  995. # [21:14] <JonathanNeal> And working from home.
  996. # [21:15] <JonathanNeal> You know what I think you or someone will eventually do with normalize? Make it so you can select which browsers you want to support, and download a customized normalize.
  997. # [21:15] <necolas> oh nice.
  998. # [21:15] <JonathanNeal> The docmentation is already there to point out which parts do what.
  999. # [21:15] <necolas> yeah, not sure if they should do that though
  1000. # [21:15] <necolas> but i am waiting for the day when ie6/7 stuff can be dropped from it!
  1001. # [21:15] <JonathanNeal> Yea.
  1002. # [21:16] <JonathanNeal> That would change things like content: '' to downgrade the others.
  1003. # [21:16] <necolas> and would allow for use of 'font:inherit' to simplify a couple of thins
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  1005. # [21:17] <JonathanNeal> when was inherit added to ie? 7 or 8?
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  1012. # [21:22] <necolas> JonathanNeal: ie8 afaik
  1013. # [21:22] <JonathanNeal> bummer
  1014. # [21:22] <JonathanNeal> wish it was 7.
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  1025. # [21:33] <JonathanNeal> Ah - The value "inherit" is not supported in IE7 and earlier. IE8 requires a !DOCTYPE. IE9 supports "inherit". - ...
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  1036. # [21:40] <paul_irish> inherit has pretty spotty support. FF doesnt have it afaik
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  1038. # [21:41] <JonathanNeal> well there ya go, nail to coffin on halloween
  1039. # [21:42] <paul_irish> if anyone can add that to the MDC thatd be awesomemememe
  1040. # [21:42] <paul_irish> necolas: pong
  1041. # [21:43] <paul_irish> JonathanNeal: also yeah i think most tools are gonna need an option to say "i dont care about ie7 anymore"
  1042. # [21:43] <paul_irish> that allows a LOT of new features
  1043. # [21:43] <paul_irish> and less code/fixes
  1044. # [21:43] <paul_irish> and then again with ie8.. but thats v far off for most
  1045. # [21:43] <necolas> pretty sure inherit is in FF
  1046. # [21:43] <paul_irish> oh shit. i was thinking `initial`
  1047. # [21:44] <necolas> at least when ie6/7 are gone we can rock out with box-sizing for fluid layouts
  1048. # [21:44] * paul_irish rubs box-sizing all over
  1049. # [21:45] <JonathanNeal> that will be nice
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  1051. # [21:47] <niftylettuce> \o
  1052. # [21:47] <tw2113> sup salad?
  1053. # [21:48] <JonathanNeal> box sizing, min/max width, local storage
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  1060. # [21:53] <necolas> JonathanNeal: and inherit...but still no conditional MQs. sigh. 2020 maybe.
  1061. # [21:53] <JonathanNeal> yea and display inline-block / table / cell, etc will be more popular.
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  1063. # [21:54] <JonathanNeal> as designs similar to apps, cpanels, touch facebook, etc become more popular.
  1064. # [21:54] <JonathanNeal> those techniques will spill back over into traditional web design for sure.
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  1067. # [21:56] <niftylettuce> tw2113: nada, qdoba();
  1068. # [21:57] <tw2113> darn, now i'm hungry for 3 cheese nachos
  1069. # [21:57] <niftylettuce> i got wifi extender so I can reach campus internet from my.location
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  1138. # [23:07] <tantek> greetings - I just checked the logs for today http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/html5/20111031 and noticed complete absence of any discussion of the recently dropping of <time> (see for background: http://www.brucelawson.co.uk/2011/goodbye-html5-time-hello-data/ )
  1139. # [23:07] <tantek> does that mean that no one here cares about <time> so it's ok to drop it?
  1140. # [23:07] <tw2113> this isn't an official room for the specs
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  1143. # [23:08] <tw2113> i know there's #whatwc
  1144. # [23:09] <tw2113> bah, that's not it
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  1146. # [23:09] <tw2113> #whatwg
  1147. # [23:09] <tw2113> i was close
  1148. # [23:10] <tantek> tw2113 - there are plenty of "real world" web designers / developers here and it's a good place to get feedback / questions as a result
  1149. # [23:10] <tw2113> very true
  1150. # [23:10] <tantek> rather than deeply technical and often esoteric spec discussions ;)
  1151. # [23:10] <tw2113> i liked the idea of <time> personally
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  1154. # [23:11] <tantek> tw2113 - were you using it? would you have used it if it was more flexible per the proposals on the WHATWG wiki? http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Time
  1155. # [23:11] <tw2113> ack, just realized it was you who originally asked too
  1156. # [23:11] <tw2113> shows how much i'm paying attention today
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  1158. # [23:11] <tw2113> i had it in my starter theme for WordPress
  1159. # [23:12] <tw2113> which is barebones at first and i build up into client projects
  1160. # [23:12] <tantek> tw2113 - apparently it's in the default theme for WordPress and was about to ship by default with Drupal as well.
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  1162. # [23:12] <tw2113> yeah, twentyeleven uses it a lot
  1163. # [23:12] * Joins: axos411 (~axos@xdsl-78-35-145-45.netcologne.de)
  1164. # [23:13] <tw2113> hgroup too
  1165. # [23:13] <tantek> yeah I'm a fan of hgroup as well
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  1167. # [23:14] <hober> i'm fond of it myself
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  1176. # [23:21] <drublic> tantek, tw2113: I like <time> as it has a clear semanic meaning. i think the solution you described on brucel's blog is great.
  1177. # [23:21] * Joins: welly (~welly@unaffiliated/welly)
  1178. # [23:22] <drublic> I think it's not the best just pick <data> as hixie did and drop <time> as it is used by twentyeleven, bostonglobe and others (e.g. my blog ;))
  1179. # [23:22] * Quits: danielfilho (~daniel@187.31.77.7) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  1180. # [23:23] <tantek> drublic, my blog as well. And I coded support for <time> in X2V (open source) and am running support for consuming <time> in the service dev.h2vx.com
  1181. # [23:23] <drublic> dropping something that's already wildly used is not good and gives people the intention that they cannot relay on what the WHATWG does… and that's bad for all the webdesigners
  1182. # [23:23] <tantek> drublic agreed. I was a bit surprised.
  1183. # [23:23] <drublic> tantek: yeah i read that
  1184. # [23:24] <tw2113> i would be more than willing to use it, if i ever got around to re-doing my own site
  1185. # [23:24] <tw2113> but i still need a finished design and that's my weak area
  1186. # [23:24] <tantek> drublic, are there additional <time> date values you'd like to use? like year-only, or year-month only or month-day only?
  1187. # [23:25] <drublic> tantek: at the moment i like the datetime-attr as it works as needed i think
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  1189. # [23:25] <drublic> i never used pubdate tho
  1190. # [23:25] <tantek> drublic currently the datetime-attr only supports date (YYYY-MM-DD), time (HH:MM:SS), and datetime (YYYY-MM-DDTHH:MM:SS).
  1191. # [23:25] <tantek> I've never found a need for pubdate either
  1192. # [23:26] <tantek> hAtom works fine and better lets me specify all the necessary semantics for publishing.
  1193. # [23:26] <tantek> s/publishing/syndication
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  1195. # [23:26] <drublic> tantek: well that's enough for datetime i guess
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  1197. # [23:26] <tantek> so the question is, would you use datetime-attr values of YYYY or YYYY-MM or --MM-DD ?
  1198. # [23:26] <drublic> no i don't think so
  1199. # [23:27] * Joins: chovy (~chovy@108-194-42-92.lightspeed.mtryca.sbcglobal.net)
  1200. # [23:27] <drublic> if i think of a wikipedia article with years in it
  1201. # [23:27] <drublic> it would be okay
  1202. # [23:28] <drublic> but i wouldn't use it for this
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  1204. # [23:28] <drublic> I like the usage of <time datetime="2011-…">today</time>
  1205. # [23:28] <drublic> as it is pretty useful for every newspaper and stuff
  1206. # [23:29] <drublic> tantek: would you suggest creating new attrs for <time>?
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  1209. # [23:31] <Snerf> is there a way, once I have an image on a canvas, to write that out to a JPEG file ?
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  1211. # [23:31] <tantek> drublic - no new attributes are needed
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  1213. # [23:31] <drublic> tantek: new syntax
  1214. # [23:31] <tantek> you could use YYYY per ISO8601 today
  1215. # [23:31] <tantek> e.g.
  1216. # [23:31] <tantek> I'm at the <time>2011</time> TPAC
  1217. # [23:31] <tantek> or
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  1220. # [23:32] <tantek> I'm having a good time at TPAC <time datetime=2011>this year</time>.
  1221. # [23:32] <tantek> or
  1222. # [23:32] <tantek> I'm speaking at the W3C Conference in Seattle <time datetime=2011-11>next month</time>
  1223. # [23:33] <tantek> no new syntax, just re-using more of ISO8601 syntax
  1224. # [23:33] <paul_irish> i usually put @pubdate on <ins> elements
  1225. # [23:33] <drublic> well, sounds plausible
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  1227. # [23:33] <tantek> paul_irish - the datetime attribute on <ins> is appropriate for that
  1228. # [23:33] <tantek> you don't need pubdate on ins
  1229. # [23:34] <tantek> ISO8601 syntax for years and months: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601#Years
  1230. # [23:34] * Joins: plh (~plh@63-145-238-4.dia.static.qwest.net)
  1231. # [23:34] <drublic> tantek: so where could there be a use for @pubdate? I mean i wouldn't use it for dates in general…
  1232. # [23:35] <tantek> drublic - pubdate is a leftover from the days of when there was the use case of attempted automatic conversion of HTML5 to Atom.
  1233. # [23:35] <drublic> and I mean I'm not to much into the W3C and WHATWG processes
  1234. # [23:35] <drublic> but is there a way to just try and fail
  1235. # [23:35] <tantek> drublic - it's ok, process is often overrated ;)
  1236. # [23:35] <drublic> for instance with <data>
  1237. # [23:35] <tantek> drublic - I'm actually in favor of the introduction of <data>
  1238. # [23:36] <drublic> tantek: yes yes
  1239. # [23:36] <drublic> me too
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  1241. # [23:36] <tantek> I just think <time> is already more useful, more semantic, published, implemented etc.
  1242. # [23:36] <drublic> I think it's great
  1243. # [23:36] <tantek> I'd like both
  1244. # [23:36] <drublic> right
  1245. # [23:36] <drublic> with fail i ment… <data> could be introduced
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  1247. # [23:37] <drublic> and if noone uses it … drop it
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  1249. # [23:37] <tantek> drublic if you YYYY or YYYY-MM would be useful to you, please indicate as such with a +1 comment on their entries here:
  1250. # [23:37] <tantek> http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Time#year_only
  1251. # [23:37] <tantek> and
  1252. # [23:37] <tw2113> it's all data
  1253. # [23:37] <tantek> http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Time#year_month_only
  1254. # [23:37] <tw2113> the entire page
  1255. # [23:37] <tantek> (and more of the proposals if you feel like it)
  1256. # [23:38] <drublic> thx i'll have a look
  1257. # [23:39] <tantek> thanks
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  1261. # [23:40] <drublic> tantek: is there any voting system or something? I mean i like the ideas and stuff… but how can i support it?
  1262. # [23:41] <tantek> edit the wiki and in the discussion section for each proposal add your +1 / 0 / -1 and reasoning
  1263. # [23:41] <tantek> e.g. this section: http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/Time#year_only_discussion
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  1265. # [23:42] <drublic> tantek: well I could do this. but i mean … who is drublic anyway!?
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  1269. # [23:44] <tantek> doesn't matter who you are - just offer an opinion, and with good reasoning, your opinion strengthens the case
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  1287. # [23:53] <drublic> 17SABTG9I: tantek? did that!
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  1296. # Session Close: Tue Nov 01 00:00:00 2011

The end :)