/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-11-14 / end

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# Session Start: Mon Nov 14 00:00:01 2011
# Session Ident: #html5
# [00:00] <GuidoBouman> Works splendid for me.
# [00:00] <Jayflux> GuidoBouman what OS you using?
# [00:00] <GuidoBouman> OS X Lion
# [00:00] <GuidoBouman> Chrome
# [00:00] <Jayflux> hmm yeah I think its just a Windows thing
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# [00:02] <GuidoBouman> Just made your site a lot "nicerder": http://cl.ly/1T1s3a1S2L3P0p3k2a08
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# [00:03] <Jayflux> tabbin hell
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# [00:05] <Jayflux> GuidoBouman it weirdly works lol
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# [00:52] <Pomax> ahh, IE9. It doesn't throw an error AND it doesn't work. best of both world.s
# [00:52] <Pomax> shr(.)
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# [00:55] <Pomax> oh paul_irish, saw the CSSStyleSheet bug for file:?
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# [01:00] <paul_irish> Pomax: ?
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# [01:03] <Pomax> http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=45786
# [01:04] <Pomax> CSSStyleSheets have cssRules/rules = null when you open pages on file: instead of http:, apparently for a while now =)
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# [03:09] <YammYgirlcoding> good evenin all o/
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# [03:21] <echoSMILE> goodnight. is possible change the default message for the required alertin browsers?
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# [10:48] <grantg> jetienne: were you still looking at the wav code?
# [10:48] <jetienne> grantg: not at the moment, why
# [10:48] <grantg> Because since then I've updated to play 24 and 32 bit wav files too
# [10:48] <grantg> Even though no one uses those
# [10:48] <grantg> except audiophiles
# [10:49] <grantg> Heh, even firefox/chrome don't do 24 and 32 bit wav natively
# [10:49] <jetienne> hehe
# [10:50] <grantg> http://www.grantgalitz.org/wav_player/decode.js is starting to get cleaned up. :)
# [10:51] <grantg> Reading ye olde microsoft wav specs - lol
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# [10:52] <grantg> Also added better ID3 tag skim-outs since then
# [10:52] <grantg> And more length checks
# [10:52] <jetienne> wav got id3 ?
# [10:52] <grantg> It can
# [10:52] <jetienne> i wasnt aware
# [10:53] <grantg> I ran into some Valve sound files for TF2 with ID3 on the end. O_o
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# [10:54] <grantg> A container format can contain a container format
# [10:54] <grantg> D:
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# [10:54] <grantg> containerception
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# [10:55] <grantg> Spy_laughlong01.wav anyhow was the trouble file with "trash" on the end
# [10:55] <grantg> respecting the payload size given in the wav header fixes that
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# [10:56] <grantg> even though you should be able to determine the length without looking at that header value
# [10:56] <grantg> :/
# [10:57] <grantg> I still find it funny that chromium can't do 8-bit wav on Ubuntu, but can on mac. :P
# [10:57] <grantg> </rant>
# [10:58] <franksalim> grantg: is there an issue for that?
# [10:58] <grantg> I think there was one awhile ago
# [10:58] <grantg> I think it was a dependency thing
# [10:58] <franksalim> interesting
# [10:58] <grantg> "not in chrome" thing
# [10:58] <grantg> but a lib it uses
# [10:58] <grantg> somewhere on the bug tracker
# [10:59] <grantg> when in doubt with wav, use 16-bit signed
# [10:59] <franksalim> ah, is that specifically chromium not chrome?
# [10:59] <grantg> with no ID3 bullshit
# [10:59] <franksalim> like it is dynamically linking to a different ffmpeg?
# [10:59] <grantg> franksalim: I'd have to check the bugtracker again on that
# [11:00] <franksalim> grantg: ok, don't worry about it. i was just curious
# [11:01] <grantg> k
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# [11:03] <grantg> heh, I should support the u/a law type wav files now
# [11:03] <grantg> and the other lesser knowns
# [11:04] <grantg> WAV is ideal for html5 games that want low cpu low
# [11:04] <grantg> for js-side decoding
# [11:04] <grantg> when doing js-side effects that <audio> can't do in some browsers.
# [11:05] <grantg> downloading can be asynchronously done during gameplay, and then copied into memory while not used.
# [11:06] <grantg> Even firefox 3.0 can run the decoder fullspeed
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# [11:26] <grantg> anyhow, it should be able to play all sub-types of type 1 wav, between 1 and 32 bits per sample
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# [12:20] <dbugger> Can someone please tell me why this video isnt working on Firefox? http://web333.server270.dns-was.de/tama/
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# [13:34] <ajf> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=14817
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# [14:04] <ajf> anyone here used NetFront browsers?
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# [14:40] <myakura> ajf: my Japanese handset should have a NetFront based browser, but I've never used it.
# [14:41] <ajf> ah
# [14:41] <ajf> in my case, both my phone and my 3DS use NetFront based browsers
# [14:41] <ajf> however, the latter is the NetFront WebKit-based browser
# [14:41] <ajf> I just wonder if anyone knows any particular tips for it
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# [14:50] <myakura> Hmm
# [14:50] <ajf> especially since it has incomplete canvas support
# [14:50] <ajf> it works, but some features are missing
# [14:51] <ajf> some transformations don't work either
# [14:51] <myakura> does NetFront support canvas?
# [14:51] <ajf> yup
# [14:51] <ajf> on my phone it does
# [14:51] <ajf> and it has very little memory
# [14:51] <ajf> it's a feature phone
# [14:51] <myakura> Wow.
# [14:52] <myakura> My handset is like 5yr old so I don't expect that it supports canvas.
# [14:52] <ajf> I wouldn't expect it
# [14:52] <ajf> it's from last year, maybe year before
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# [14:57] <myakura> I believe WebKit used in 3DS browser is kinda dated.
# [14:57] <myakura> http://www.nintendo.com/3ds/internetbrowser/sourcecode/
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# [14:57] <ajf> it's NetFront WebKit
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# [14:58] <ajf> so yes, probably
# [14:58] <ajf> they package it up and make it easier to port
# [14:59] <ajf> "Canvas element (einige)" "CSS3 (einge)"
# [15:00] <myakura> interesting.
# [15:00] <ajf> let me check my phone
# [15:01] <ajf> NetFront Browser v3.5
# [15:01] <myakura> ooh. the Changelog shows the last commit is dated as of 2009-12-21
# [15:01] <ajf> interesting!
# [15:01] <ajf> So it has the capabilities of... 2 year old webkit
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# [15:02] <ajf> Notably, the browser engine of the 3DS is listed as "NetFront(R) Browser NX 1.0", so presumably there is or will be a newer version at some point in the future
# [15:02] <myakura> Version.xcconfig says that webkit version is 532.8
# [15:02] <ajf> that's Google Chrome 4
# [15:03] <myakura> can't remember what kinda features that Cr4 offered...
# [15:03] <ajf> me neither
# [15:03] <ajf> let me google it
# [15:04] <ajf> HTML5 video and audio was added before version 4
# [15:04] <ajf> Version 4 has ACID3 fully passing
# [15:04] <ajf> hmm
# [15:05] <ajf> myakura: thanks for the open source link btw
# [15:05] <myakura> Ha! at that time there weren't stable builds for Mac and Linux
# [15:05] <myakura> np!
# [15:05] <ajf> ooh
# [15:05] <ajf> websockets
# [15:06] <ajf> they're probably disabled, but there is a folder for them
# [15:06] <ajf> it might just be stubs, though
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# [15:08] <ajf> let's see if websockets work :D
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# [15:09] <ajf> oh, says they don't when I go to a test
# [15:09] <ajf> shame
# [15:09] <ajf> they were either incomplete or disabled at build-time
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# [15:14] <ajf> myakura: although it's practically guaranteed to be disabled
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# [15:14] <ajf> I'm looking for audio stuff
# [15:14] <ajf> Thing is, unfortunately, it uses WebKit
# [15:15] <myakura> cuz everyone loves WebKit ;)
# [15:15] <myakura> ;(
# [15:15] <ajf> yeah
# [15:15] <ajf> except people looking for old deprecated elements
# [15:15] <Ms2ger> Bah, webkit
# [15:15] <ajf> which it doesn't support
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# [15:20] <ajf> myakura: woo, 3DS canvas seems to be properly done
# [15:20] <ajf> unlike on my phone
# [15:20] <ajf> where it ignored one of my transforms
# [15:20] <ajf> and hence everything was double the correct height
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# [15:24] <myakura> ajf: woops. mislooked '3DS canavas' as 3D canvas. bah.
# [15:24] <ajf> yeah :/
# [15:24] <ajf> you know what really excites me? CSS 3d transforms
# [15:24] <ajf> you know what I hate about them?
# [15:24] <ajf> they aren't hardware accelerated
# [15:25] <ajf> seriously, they would otherwise be a really nice way to do 3D in the browser
# [15:25] <ajf> far easier than WebGL
# [15:41] <Jayflux> paul_irish my issue was closed? http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=104075
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# [15:55] <ajf> myakura: I just realised
# [15:55] <ajf> if I can render JPGs in the browser
# [15:55] <ajf> I can display 3D images using data URLs
# [15:55] <myakura> !
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# [15:56] <ajf> because the 3DS supports displaying 3D images in the browser
# [15:56] <ajf> and MPO is just two JPEGs concatenated
# [15:57] <ajf> YES! The 3DS supports Data URIs
# [15:57] <ajf> now to somehow make a JPEG with JS
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# [17:50] <JonathanNeal> Do do do!
# [17:50] <bot-t1> (68 hours 9 mins ago) <vladikoff> tell JonathanNeal http://nerds.airbnb.com/box-shadows-are-expensive-to-paint
# [17:50] <JonathanNeal> Cool.
# [17:50] <JonathanNeal> Hello!
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# [19:21] <Pomax> nice. I'm actually crashing IE9 with the JS lib I'm writing now
# [19:21] <Pomax> F12 isn't very useful now
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# [20:37] <JonathanNeal> Using HTML5, how would you mark up the "to" and "from" in a letter?
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# [20:37] <Aric> come again?
# [20:37] <Aric> JonathanNeal: letter or email?
# [20:38] <JonathanNeal> either, or in an invoice. eg: http://blog.buckleupstudios.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Picture-1.png
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# [20:40] <Aric> you could just make a div for each block or section and basic markup, the CSS is probably more important for floating etc
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# [20:44] <Pomax> I'd use a label, though.
# [20:46] <Pomax> if it's for a form, at least. if it's only for showing an already formed letter/invoice/etc then depending on its onpage role a div or span with a class.
# [20:47] <JonathanNeal> I'm thinking <address> for both the to and from.
# [20:47] <JonathanNeal> a label, like I think you mentioned, should only be used in assocation with inputs.
# [20:47] <Pomax> exactly
# [20:48] <Pomax> wasn't sure whether you meant for an inputting system, or just showing the information already recorded
# [20:48] <JonathanNeal> the example photo of an invoice is what i was thinking of.
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# [20:49] <Pomax> ah. address will work for the entire block, I thought 'to' and 'from' elements as in the single line things you get for emails =)
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# [21:05] <JonathanNeal> This is what I have so far http://pastie.org/2863381
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# [21:06] <JonathanNeal> Based on what Chris had made @ http://css-tricks.com/examples/EditableInvoice/
# [21:06] <Pomax> no jsfiddle?
# [21:06] <Pomax> the spans lack semantics, though
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# [21:08] <Pomax> add some classes like class="entity", class="street", etc? (especially useful for semantic styling later on)
# [21:09] <Pomax> why a dl, btw>
# [21:09] <Pomax> it doesn't really look like a list of definitions, just a normal unordered list of items.
# [21:10] <Pomax> (I guess it saves a start and end tag for each entry)
# [21:10] <JonathanNeal> Pomax: there are no elemental semantics for within the <address>
# [21:10] <JonathanNeal> at that point, we're left to the discretion of aria, vard, whatever classes, etc.
# [21:13] <hober> <address> is for contact information for the current page, it's not a container for any address
# [21:14] <JonathanNeal> hober: and the first one is attached to the document, and the second one is attached to the article.
# [21:14] <JonathanNeal> Is this not correct?
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# [21:20] <Pomax> hurray, done. Time to polarize the web world a little more with https://github.com/Pomax/CSSmacros
# [21:21] <JonathanNeal> Pomax: fantastic. I'm North, are you South?
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# [21:21] <JonathanNeal> why not @ for the macro names? found them unnecessary?
# [21:21] <Pomax> aww, are we doing it cardinally?
# [21:22] <Pomax> this way it's closer to @font-face declarations
# [21:22] <Pomax> since the application is unambiguous ('anything after a : can be replaced if it matches') there's no need for @ or $ or something else that indicates "this is a variable"
# [21:22] <JonathanNeal> Word. I approve. Albeit we're just xml'ing our code.
# [21:23] <Pomax> To be honest, some people are going to use this wrong.
# [21:23] <Pomax> relying on this instead of classes.
# [21:23] <JonathanNeal> Pomax: this in combination with leaverou's prefix free could be fun.
# [21:23] <leaverou> Pomax: why not use var() when the constant is used? This way keywords could be used as constant names
# [21:24] <leaverou> and it aids readability too
# [21:24] <Pomax> I'm open to improvements later on, but macros are not variables.
# [21:24] <Pomax> so var() (like url) seems completely wrong.
# [21:24] <leaverou> or const()
# [21:24] <JonathanNeal> I agree with Pomax here in that he's just matching @font-face
# [21:24] <JonathanNeal> we don't use font()
# [21:24] <Pomax> I looked at the proposal by disruptive innovations, but it seemed to syntax heavy
# [21:25] <leaverou> as the reader instantly knows that this is a constant and doesn't wonder "is that a keyword? *looks in the @macros rule* oh no, it's a macro"
# [21:25] <Pomax> yeah but CSS is typically not read by casual readers, but by people who know CSS
# [21:25] <leaverou> Pomax: or, even better, turn it into a (partial) polyfill for the variables spec
# [21:25] <leaverou> Pomax: people who know CSS != people who know your script
# [21:25] <leaverou> actually not !=
# [21:25] <JonathanNeal> what's the variables spec?
# [21:26] <leaverou> more like >
# [21:26] <JonathanNeal> Is there a readable version of it?
# [21:26] <Pomax> disruptive innovations did one (quite) a while ago, at http://disruptive-innovations.com/zoo/cssvariables
# [21:26] <JonathanNeal> hey hey, != was accurate enough.
# [21:26] <Pomax> but it's syntax overload imo
# [21:26] <leaverou> JonathanNeal: you should ask Tab
# [21:26] <Pomax> you don't "need" var() notation for it to work, and good macros don't confuse readers
# [21:26] <JonathanNeal> Tab's birthday is coming up, btw.
# [21:26] <Pomax> so I'm putting the burden on people who will use this to keep it readable
# [21:27] <leaverou> JonathanNeal: when?
# [21:27] <JonathanNeal> I have it on my calendar, lest we forget like he presumed.
# [21:27] <leaverou> Pomax: famous last words :)
# [21:27] <JonathanNeal> Wednesday, the 16th.
# [21:27] <leaverou> JonathanNeal: should we do something? are you in Cali?
# [21:27] <JonathanNeal> I'm in Southern California. No one lives here.
# [21:27] <Pomax> leaverou: damn straight =P
# [21:28] <JonathanNeal> In the wild west of the internet, I'm Maine.
# [21:28] <Pomax> my mode of operation tends to be "kick shins to see who reacts rationally" =P
# [21:28] <JonathanNeal> Pomax: what drawbacks do you see with your own script?
# [21:28] <Pomax> for one, it relies on javascript.
# [21:29] <Pomax> so on wonky browsers, or browsers with noScript, you need fallback rules
# [21:29] <Pomax> not very different from what we need now, but it can still be a bother
# [21:29] <JonathanNeal> Sure, but we're usually safe, because ie browsers with noscript can't even render html5 elements correctly.
# [21:29] <Pomax> and, interestingly, someone could define a macro that is the same as a real property
# [21:29] <Pomax> like "@macros { text-align: lollerskates; }"
# [21:30] <JonathanNeal> Pomax: are spaces allowed in your macros?
# [21:30] <Pomax> err, "@macros { center: lollerskates; }"
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# [21:30] <Pomax> yes they are
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# [21:30] <JonathanNeal> i knew what you meant, yea, with center.
# [21:30] <Pomax> so you can macro something like "default-radii: 0px 15px 0px 1em"
# [21:30] <Pomax> and then use "border-radius: default-radii"
# [21:30] <Pomax> and effect consistent design across all elements that your design document says are linked.
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# [21:31] <JonathanNeal> Pomax: in the future would you consider offsets and nested rules?
# [21:31] <Pomax> that's the only reason I need this myself, tbh. once CSS hits the CSS engine, anything you "know" is linked because you said "p, li, span, div { ... }" is ripped apart.
# [21:31] <Pomax> from that point on, changing that property for 'p' just changes it for 'p'. So this solves that problem.
# [21:31] <Pomax> offsets?
# [21:32] <JonathanNeal> var + 5
# [21:32] <Pomax> I'm not sure about nested rules, I've thought about them a few times, but I never seem to reach the point that makes me go "right, I'm annoyed enough to write it myself" =)
# [21:32] <Pomax> I like the idea of arithmetic in CSS, but it's a hard one.
# [21:32] <Pomax> because the first I'd want is unified units.
# [21:33] <Pomax> so I can go "margin-left: 4px + 2em"
# [21:33] <Pomax> and know my elements now align
# [21:33] <leaverou> Pomax: btw have you looked into StyleFix as a base for your script?
# [21:33] <leaverou> to reduce code
# [21:33] <Pomax> a bit like the TeX <dim> unit. It doesn't matter whether something's px, pt, ex, em, cm, mm in TeX, it all becomes 'dim' units
# [21:33] <Pomax> I have not, looking it up now
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# [21:34] <Pomax> there are a lot of things called stylefix O-o
# [21:34] <leaverou> lool indeed
# [21:34] <leaverou> https://github.com/LeaVerou/prefixfree
# [21:34] <leaverou> scroll down to StyleFix API Documentation
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# [21:36] <leaverou> Pomax: and for a usage example (except prefixfree): https://gist.github.com/1347501
# [21:37] <JonathanNeal> leaverou: did you write StyleFix?
# [21:37] <leaverou> JonathanNeal: yup
# [21:37] <leaverou> JonathanNeal: originally it was part of -prefix-free, then I decided to separate them
# [21:37] <leaverou> JonathanNeal: and make it a base for polyfills
# [21:37] <JonathanNeal> cool
# [21:38] <leaverou> JonathanNeal: I want to distrubute it separately eventually
# [21:38] <JonathanNeal> where is it all by itself?
# [21:38] <JonathanNeal> on git
# [21:38] <leaverou> JonathanNeal: nowhere, if you wanna use it you have to copy if from -prefix-free
# [21:38] <leaverou> (or just use PF)
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# [21:40] <JonathanNeal> $(expr, con) what else would con be?
# [21:41] <leaverou> JonathanNeal: container
# [21:41] <JonathanNeal> oh, got it, i often use the word scope
# [21:41] <leaverou> JonathanNeal: oh good one!!
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# [21:42] <JonathanNeal> i'd list the pf requirements in the readme
# [21:42] <Pomax> leaverou, gonna have a look at your prefixfree a bit later, apparently I all of a sudden need to head out for a few hours O_o
# [21:43] <JonathanNeal> Pomax: good luck storming the castle.
# [21:43] <leaverou> JonathanNeal: which requirements?
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# [21:43] <JonathanNeal> querySelectorAll, for starters
# [21:43] <JonathanNeal> addEventListener
# [21:43] <leaverou> JonathanNeal: it says in the project page which browsers are supported
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# [21:44] <JonathanNeal> yea, but it will bug out on other browsers as well.
# [21:44] <leaverou> JonathanNeal: like?
# [21:44] <JonathanNeal> it doesn't have any checks to protect the old kids.
# [21:44] <JonathanNeal> they'll try to execute the code.
# [21:44] <leaverou> JonathanNeal: yes it does
# [21:44] <leaverou> in the very beginning
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# [21:47] <JonathanNeal> whoops
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# [21:48] <JonathanNeal> leaverou: on the other subject of invoices, what else fits for the invoice abstract data with labels, I think <table> more closely matches than <dl>, and I can't think of other elements with labels.
# [21:48] <leaverou> JonathanNeal: there's always aria-labelledby :P
# [21:49] <JonathanNeal> you'd be saying there was no elemental way to mark those up with that statement.
# [21:49] <leaverou> I was kidding
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# [21:59] <JonathanNeal> another issue with my pastie is that the <article> does not have a heading.
# [21:59] <leaverou> JonathanNeal: I used "Recipient:" as a heading in my version
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# [22:00] <JonathanNeal> Did you use anything like sender for the other?
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# [22:01] <leaverou> JonathanNeal: no, it was in the <header> anyway
# [22:01] <bitwise_> curious what people think about the dean edwards ie7/8 fixes. still something that we need to use as devs?
# [22:02] <JonathanNeal> So the outline goes invoice: { recipient, additional-notes }
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# [22:02] <JonathanNeal> bitwise_: I never used them, and I'm not sure how widespread they were used.
# [22:02] <leaverou> bitwise_: I don't think they're maintained,
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# [22:04] <eysman> bitwise_: I think more devs are using the selectivizr fixes now.
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# [22:05] <bitwise_> thanks
# [22:06] <bitwise_> it seemed they weren't maintained.. also causing a nasty white screen/memleak in ie8 for me
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# [22:06] <bitwise_> i'll check out selectivizr
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# [22:16] <eysman> that said. I'm having a whitescreen problem in IE8 myself now. And using selectivizr. Though somehow removing my @font-face includes fixes it...
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# [22:21] <paul_irish> Jayflux: can you repro in canary?
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# [22:22] <Jayflux> paul_irish im currently on release channel, how do i change that?
# [22:22] <paul_irish> download canary
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# [22:22] <paul_irish> ?g chrome canary
# [22:22] <bot-t1> paul_irish, Google Chrome Canary - http://tools.google.com/dlpage/chromesxs
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# [22:23] <Jayflux> paul_irish you know if i should uninstall chrome first or can i just install it over the top. Downloading btw..
# [22:23] <paul_irish> it runs sidebyside
# [22:24] <Jayflux> ah ic
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# [22:32] <velts> does anyone know how to get the coordinate of shaps inside a canvas?
# [22:32] <velts> say i draw a line, is there a way to get the coordinates of that line
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# [22:45] <Jayflux> paul_irish how do i check its installed and working
# [22:46] <paul_irish> o.o
# [22:46] <blitzMN> 0.o
# [22:46] <paul_irish> velts: not really. you want to keep track of that sort of thing when you draw it
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# [22:47] <Jayflux> paul_irish ignore that i found it and setting it up
# [22:47] <blitzMN> @paul_irish big fan!
# [22:47] <paul_irish> :)
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# [22:48] <velts> ok, intersting... I am trying to allow users to draw over images with a pencil like tool. Does that mean I will need to keep track of each individual time i call lineTo
# [22:49] <velts> if so what is the best way to store all that data
# [22:50] <Jayflux> paul_irish the problem does indeed appear to be fixed in canary
# [22:50] <paul_irish> hooray
# [22:50] <Jayflux> heh thank god
# [22:50] <Jayflux> what was the issue then? do you know or has it just resolved itself
# [22:50] <paul_irish> velts: this is around the time you get a library that has already done this
# [22:50] <velts> any recomendations?
# [22:50] <paul_irish> ?g ocanvas
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# [22:50] <paul_irish> maybe
# [22:50] <bot-t1> paul_irish, oCanvas - Object-based canvas drawing - http://ocanvas.org/
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# [22:52] <blitzMN> 72 versions of IE on the wall :O
# [22:53] <paul_irish> it wont be that bad
# [22:53] <blitzMN> just happen to read your article today
# [22:53] <paul_irish> o
# [22:53] <blitzMN> made my monday
# [22:53] <paul_irish> but the IE8 issue will still be bad.
# [22:53] <paul_irish> :'(
# [22:53] <blitzMN> oh dear... you are correct
# [22:54] <Jayflux> paul_irish why don't msn just make their older browsers EOL sooner?
# [22:54] <Jayflux> like FF do
# [22:54] <Jayflux> MS*
# [22:54] <paul_irish> corp policy to support software for 10 years.
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# [22:55] <Jayflux> sounds like a red tape issue then
# [22:55] <blitzMN> more like a client issue
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# [22:55] <blitzMN> client job that is....
# [22:55] <Jayflux> paul_irish ok how about plan b, they auto update their users? a la Chrome/FF
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# [23:01] <paul_irish> Jayflux: i would imagine they are trying to figure out how to do that
# [23:01] <paul_irish> if you saw the "enterprise" response to FF's rapid release plan you'll see it's a complicated thing
# [23:01] <Jayflux> nope not seen that, will look for it
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# [23:05] <eighty4> anyone have any thoughts on future browser support when developing? What browsers/versions will you support in the future?
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# [23:06] <eighty4> Saying that you support FF 4+ would more or less demand that you actually test your site in ff4,ff5 and so on...
# [23:06] <OzDave_imac> holographic point cloud data bathroom freshener browsers will be big whilst you do number twos :P
# [23:07] <OzDave_imac> try to keep all artwork in vector and non destructive as well as modular examples of working code, the rest should be straight forward as the crow flies
# [23:08] <Jayflux> eighty4 what you mean exactly? Doesnt support usually mean what older browsers your site will work with not newer ones?
# [23:08] <Jayflux> i mean if your site works fine on ff4 then there shouldnt really be a problem with 5, 6, 7 or 8
# [23:08] <eighty4> Jayflux: yes. But a site developed today should it support ff4?
# [23:09] <Jayflux> eighty4 well yeah, I would go back as far as 3.6
# [23:09] <eighty4> and in 2 years?
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# [23:11] <Jayflux> umm eighty4 theres no right or wrong answer just good judgement
# [23:11] <Jayflux> by looking at statistics and see who you want to serve
# [23:11] <Jayflux> and what functionality your website/application will have
# [23:12] <eighty4> of course there's no right/wrong answer. But I'm curious to what other think on the subject :)
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# [23:13] <Jayflux> eighty4 what's your thoughts on what to drop support for?
# [23:14] <eighty4> basically your "stats" solution. But that won't work in all situations :/
# [23:14] <Jayflux> eighty4 hopefully the way browsers update themselves should hopefully make the question you ask more less trivial in the future :0
# [23:14] <Jayflux> :)*
# [23:14] <eighty4> We need to write in the offer what browsers to support in some cases.
# [23:15] <eighty4> granted that's a bit stupid but still.
# [23:15] <Jayflux> im assuming in the future eighty4 most of it won't be a problem (like we have now with ie6 and 7) and stuff we use will be supported quicker.
# [23:16] <Jayflux> specially as browsers release faster than say 3 years ago
# [23:16] <eighty4> yeah probably. Hopefully everyone will upgrade to IE10 within 2 years and then we're all fine
# [23:18] <Jayflux> eighty4 yeah, unfortunately it may take longer as all XP users need to be on 7 to use ie9+. But we can hope most of them will move to a modern browser
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# [23:19] <eighty4> yeah, 2 years will probably not happen. But 5 :) if we're lucky
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# [23:20] <Jayflux> eighty4 personally i don't support ie 6, if my site works in ie 6 then thats a bonus but i will push Chrome Frame onto them
# [23:22] <Jayflux> eighty4 unfortunately too many people use ie7 otherwise i would have ditched that one too. Maybe next year I will knock it on the head.
# [23:24] <eighty4> surprisingly many hospital employees in the states use IE6 at work :)
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# [23:25] <Jayflux> eighty4 i used google analytics on my last site to check if it was safe to ditch ie6, it was like 1.2% of our users were on it
# [23:25] <Jayflux> so it could be an idea to check that.
# [23:28] <eighty4> we do
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# [23:28] <eighty4> sadly that won't always help either, if the ceo is using ie6 he will depend ie6 support :)
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# [23:34] <mathi> hi
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# [23:35] <mathi> is it possible for an external application to access the localStorage DB of a specific website ?
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# [23:39] <Jayflux> mathi well the HTML5 spec doesn't specify anything with regards to the safety of data. I wouldnt rule it out
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# [23:43] <Jayflux> mathi modern browsers say they store their localstorage securely so although you shouldnt put any sensative information in there, I don't think it can be accessed externally
# [23:43] <mathi> Jayflux, thank you
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# Session Close: Tue Nov 15 00:00:00 2011

The end :)