/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-11-20 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sun Nov 20 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
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  24. # [00:39] <AlIkAKa> !help
  25. # [00:39] <AlIkAKa> !help
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  29. # [00:51] <AlIkAKa> !help
  30. # [00:52] <OzDave_imac> ¡dןǝɥ
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  43. # [01:10] <tw2113> anyone know which order firefox loads font formats in? like does it default to woff first?
  44. # [01:12] <tw2113> looking over MDN, and since WOFF is apparently originally developed by Mozilla, I'm going to guess "yes"
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  54. # [01:24] <AlIkAKa> !help
  55. # [01:25] <tw2113> AlIkAKa what are you trying to accomplish?
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  83. # [02:35] <mappum> so how do most people handle IE incompatibility with styling and such? do I really need to make a separate stylesheet with a bunch of hacks to make it all work?
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  85. # [02:37] <OzDave_imac> there is an IE fix you add and yeah basically some things you have to segregate out
  86. # [02:37] <tw2113> or for IE6-7 just make the layout not broken and screw the rest of the detailed differences
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  88. # [02:40] <mappum> i'm tempted to not let IE users use my site
  89. # [02:41] <OzDave_imac> no explorer for you! 12 months
  90. # [02:41] <mappum> basically
  91. # [02:41] <mappum> the browser nazi
  92. # [02:41] <tw2113> yeah......IE is not going away any time soon
  93. # [02:41] <mappum> i'm not so sure about that
  94. # [02:42] <tw2113> http://paulirish.com/2011/browser-market-pollution-iex-is-the-new-ie6/
  95. # [02:42] <OzDave_imac> yuk
  96. # [02:42] <mappum> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Usage_share_of_web_browsers_(Source_StatCounter).svg
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  98. # [02:43] <mappum> people are switching from ie6 to iex
  99. # [02:43] <mappum> but more people are switching to chrome
  100. # [02:44] <tw2113> but not everyone
  101. # [02:44] <OzDave_imac> I hardly surf on the desk now
  102. # [02:44] <tw2113> and how many people are still on XP?
  103. # [02:44] <OzDave_imac> most of it is in a tablet
  104. # [02:45] <OzDave_imac> I have an XP but its a gaming partition
  105. # [02:45] <tw2113> XP maxes out at IE8
  106. # [02:45] <OzDave_imac> bbl
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  108. # [02:46] <mappum> 40% of people still use IE. We are the 60%.
  109. # [02:46] <mappum> Occupy the Web
  110. # [02:46] <mappum> Did you hear about Occupy Flash?
  111. # [02:46] <mappum> people are uninstalling it in protest
  112. # [02:46] <mappum> which makes me happy
  113. # [02:46] <tw2113> i have no issue against someone neglecting IE completely, but as a person who still works with clients, I still support back to IE7
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  116. # [02:47] <mappum> well I am kidding. I would like to do that, but that limits my market
  117. # [02:47] <tw2113> for personal stuff, support whatever you want
  118. # [02:48] <tw2113> but if you're doing work for others, you have to consider their audience ;)
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  120. # [02:49] <mappum> well it's for others, but I think I work for them now
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  169. # [05:35] <_Sn0w_> hey guys
  170. # [05:35] <_Sn0w_> how do i resize a flash object (its allowed) with .css
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  172. # [05:38] <mappum> width and height?
  173. # [05:38] <ryanneufeld> _Sn0w_: yup width & height is the way to go
  174. # [05:39] <_Sn0w_> can you link me to a pastebin with a example? im very new to html and css
  175. # [05:40] <_Sn0w_> this is what im trying to resize http://xxxtremes.tk/client.php
  176. # [05:40] <_Sn0w_> its a flash chatroom but it allows resizeing
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  178. # [05:43] <mappum> <object style="width: 500px; height: 300px;" ... />
  179. # [05:43] <mappum> or rather ...></object>
  180. # [05:43] <ryanneufeld> mappum: dpn
  181. # [05:44] <_Sn0w_> awsome!
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  183. # [05:44] <_Sn0w_> is that what i put in my .css file??
  184. # [05:44] <ryanneufeld> *don't forget the embed inside that for x-browser support
  185. # [05:44] <ryanneufeld> _Sn0w_: no
  186. # [05:44] <ryanneufeld> you have to do it in the html
  187. # [05:44] <_Sn0w_> oh really
  188. # [05:44] <_Sn0w_> ok cool
  189. # [05:44] <_Sn0w_> easier then i thought
  190. # [05:44] <mappum> you can do style="..." for any html element
  191. # [05:44] <mappum> (other than the head of course)
  192. # [05:44] <_Sn0w_> do i put it above the chat room code??
  193. # [05:45] <ryanneufeld> mappum: actually, you can display:block the head
  194. # [05:45] <ryanneufeld> try it ;)
  195. # [05:45] <mappum> ryanneufeld: what does that accomplish?
  196. # [05:45] <mappum> lol ok
  197. # [05:45] <ryanneufeld> if you add content editable to a scipt tag in the head
  198. # [05:45] <ryanneufeld> then you can have a demo page
  199. # [05:45] <ryanneufeld> someone at the jquery summit did that
  200. # [05:46] <mappum> interesting
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  203. # [05:51] <grantg> Moo_O: Does http://www.grantgalitz.org/wav_player/ run better in chrome now?
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  205. # [05:52] <grantg> I disabled web audio support(Though changing a false to a true on a specific in the audio lib re-enables it) and it seems much better now.
  206. # [05:53] <grantg> Until someone fixes that google chrome bug, it's gonna stay that way
  207. # [05:53] <grantg> web audio's buffering is wrong, causing issues, so it can't be used. ;_;
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  223. # [06:24] <mr_lou> Morning
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  320. # [10:52] <mathi> hi
  321. # [10:54] <mathi> I try to use the application cache, I've got an manifest file, put the right header, file accessible from: <html manifest="/agenda/file/offline.appcache"> but for some reason nothing will be stored in the chrome cache
  322. # [10:55] <mathi> I have only one line in this manfiest file: CACHE MANIFEST
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  324. # [10:55] <mathi> but at least the page linking to this manifest cache file should be stored as I understood
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  328. # [11:04] <Moo_O> mathi: try add empty lines to your file
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  330. # [11:04] <Moo_O> maybe chrome fails to parse it
  331. # [11:09] <mathi> Moo_O, I got "CACHE MANIFEST" then a new line
  332. # [11:09] <Moo_O> hmm
  333. # [11:09] <mathi> ok added extra new line, didn't work
  334. # [11:09] <Moo_O> and the browser opens the file if you enter the URL?
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  336. # [11:10] <mathi> yes, the URL is: "/agenda/file/offline.appcache", same type as I access JS or CSS files
  337. # [11:11] <mathi> header('Content-Type: text/cache-manifest'); echo "CACHE MANIFEST\n\n";
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  347. # [11:40] <mathi> Moo_O, it seems that on FF it works
  348. # [11:40] <mathi> in chrome I have: Uncaught Error: INVALID_STATE_ERR: DOM Exception 11
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  350. # [11:45] <mathi> i'll try to remove content on my page, maybe some code is breaking it
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  352. # [11:51] <_Sn0w_> hmm
  353. # [11:51] <_Sn0w_> Can you guys please tell me how to resize this flash object with html...
  354. # [11:52] <_Sn0w_> http://xxxtremes.tk/client.php
  355. # [11:52] <Moo_O> _Sn0w_: can you use Firebug?
  356. # [11:52] <_Sn0w_> well i can use Operas firebug which is just as good
  357. # [11:53] <_Sn0w_> but im not to good with all of that stuff
  358. # [11:53] <_Sn0w_> there is no sizeing attribute on that page
  359. # [11:53] <Moo_O> it's called dragonfly in opera
  360. # [11:53] <Moo_O> can you inspect DOM tree of running page?
  361. # [11:54] <Moo_O> just start clicking elements open from <body>
  362. # [11:54] <Moo_O> nested
  363. # [11:54] <_Sn0w_> yes i mean dragon fly haha not fire bug
  364. # [11:54] <_Sn0w_> ok
  365. # [11:54] <Moo_O> until you hit one element which has width=1 and height=1
  366. # [11:54] <_Sn0w_> ok
  367. # [11:54] <Moo_O> and that should give you a clue
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  370. # [11:59] <mathi> Moo_O, i had a problem with the HTML tag
  371. # [11:59] <mathi> fixed
  372. # [11:59] <_Sn0w_> hey Moo do you have skype??
  373. # [12:02] <Moo_O> _Sn0w_: sorry I am not private web development support service
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  375. # [12:04] <_Sn0w_> no i know
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  377. # [12:04] <Moo_O> _Sn0w_: so if you need my skype username there must be a good reason for that
  378. # [12:04] <_Sn0w_> but i can resize it in dragonfly , would i be able to copy all that code from dragon fly and paste it and upload it ??
  379. # [12:05] <Moo_O> yes
  380. # [12:05] <Moo_O> no skype was needed for that question
  381. # [12:05] <Moo_O> _Sn0w_: not really
  382. # [12:05] <Moo_O> there was <iframe> element which is probably inserted there by javascript
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  384. # [12:05] <Moo_O> I assume giving proper parameters to this javascript call will give you element with proper dimensions
  385. # [12:07] <_Sn0w_> oh really
  386. # [12:07] <_Sn0w_> and i just asked for your to ask about other ways to do this
  387. # [12:08] <_Sn0w_> because if i do it here some random guy who never talks will go "Hey your off topic" like i dont already know
  388. # [12:08] <Moo_O> _Sn0w_: yes
  389. # [12:08] <Moo_O> but your questoin lacks context
  390. # [12:08] <Moo_O> you don't tell us what you try to do
  391. # [12:08] <Moo_O> why
  392. # [12:08] <Moo_O> and with what libraries
  393. # [12:09] <Moo_O> basically you ask us to fix your code for us and getting such help is very rare
  394. # [12:09] <Moo_O> and I don't want to fix your code
  395. # [12:09] <Moo_O> what I want to do is to train you how you can do it yourself
  396. # [12:09] <Moo_O> so I don't have to be answering the next question :)
  397. # [12:09] <Moo_O> teach man to fish...
  398. # [12:10] <Moo_O> sorry if I sounded rude but that was not the purpose
  399. # [12:11] <_Sn0w_> when i use the zoom feature thats built into opera on http://xxxtremes.tk/client.php the chat will actually resize it self smaller if i zoom out
  400. # [12:11] <_Sn0w_> and it resiezes the cams and everyting , i want it to stay that small
  401. # [12:12] <_Sn0w_> thats my chatroom , its hosted at www.tinychat.com/h4ngout
  402. # [12:12] <Moo_O> so your question is specific to tinychat, right?
  403. # [12:12] <_Sn0w_> theres currently 100+ people in it
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  405. # [12:14] <_Sn0w_> try it , go to http://tinychat.com/h4ngout and zoom out with your browser , the chat will shrink
  406. # [12:15] <Moo_O> _Sn0w_: is that problem specific to opera?
  407. # [12:15] <Moo_O> do I need to install opera to see it?
  408. # [12:15] <_Sn0w_> no any browser , just the zoom on any browser
  409. # [12:15] <_Sn0w_> it will resize the chatroom
  410. # [12:16] <Moo_O> yes
  411. # [12:16] <Moo_O> browser zoom is supposed to make things larger
  412. # [12:17] <Moo_O> or smaller
  413. # [12:17] <_Sn0w_> yes , how can i keep it that small?
  414. # [12:17] <Moo_O> _Sn0w_: you cannot
  415. # [12:17] <Moo_O> or the answer would be that you'll create your own browser
  416. # [12:18] <_Sn0w_> i am LOL! im making a small app that connects to that embeded chat
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  418. # [12:18] <Moo_O> _Sn0w_: what you are asking is against the basic principles of the web browser
  419. # [12:19] <_Sn0w_> so i cant force a browser to auto be zoomed in or out?
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  421. # [12:19] <Moo_O> you cannot
  422. # [12:19] <_Sn0w_> dam
  423. # [12:19] <Moo_O> _Sn0w_: go to tinychat support and ask options to style the chat
  424. # [12:20] <_Sn0w_> ok
  425. # [12:25] <_Sn0w_> this is what they give me to work with
  426. # [12:26] <_Sn0w_> http://pastebin.com/YMN3HdYh
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  429. # [12:42] <_Sn0w_> nvm
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  540. # [15:24] <kollapse> Hi. Is there any standard way of using custom attributes with html5 ? Can I just start doing something like "<div myAttr1='val1' somethingElse='val2'>..." ?
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  542. # [15:29] <kadiks> data- attribute is your answer
  543. # [15:29] <kadiks> http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/elements.html#embedding-custom-non-visible-data-with-the-data-attributes
  544. # [15:31] <kollapse> kadiks: Any problems with browsers that don't support html5 ?
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  547. # [15:33] <kadiks> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2412947/do-html5-custom-data-attributes-work-in-ie-6
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  549. # [15:34] <Jayflux> kadiks yes
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  551. # [15:34] <kadiks> sorry Jayflux ?
  552. # [15:35] <Jayflux> answering the question in that link
  553. # [15:36] <kadiks> a better answer to the question : http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7846613/html-data-attribute-ie6-support/7846708#7846708
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  556. # [15:36] <kadiks> that was not for me Jayflux, I was answering to someone with that link. But thx anyway
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  564. # [16:01] <vu> Hi, what are people using as an HTML 5 editor?
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  568. # [16:12] <eighty4> vu_: TextMate
  569. # [16:12] <eighty4> I also use it as a html4 editor, css(3) editor, php editor, ruby (rails) editor, bash editor and so on
  570. # [16:14] <chee> emacs, vi and ed
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  572. # [16:18] <vu> eighty4, What do you like about it?
  573. # [16:20] <kollapse> kdevelop
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  575. # [16:21] <vu> eighty4, I would like an eclipse plug in
  576. # [16:23] <kollapse> Hmm. I see W3C's html5 validator says <script id="myId"> is not incorrect. Really ?
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  578. # [16:26] <chee> you seem alarmed
  579. # [16:27] <Jayflux> kollapse since when have script tags had ID's
  580. # [16:27] <kollapse> chee: How could I not be ? I feel my heart racing, I think I'll have a heart attack.
  581. # [16:27] <kollapse> :)
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  583. # [16:28] <kollapse> Sincer never. http://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_script.asp#footer says "The <script> tag does not support any standard attributes."
  584. # [16:28] <kollapse> Though the validator seems to disagree.
  585. # [16:28] <Jayflux> so why you trying to put an id in your script tag then
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  587. # [16:29] <chee> please calm down, Jayflux
  588. # [16:29] <kollapse> You'll probably want to hit me if I tell you.
  589. # [16:29] <Jayflux> chee ?
  590. # [16:29] <Jayflux> im just asking him a question
  591. # [16:30] <chee> the html5 spec states that 'id' is a global attribute
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  593. # [16:30] <chee> and also that <script> takes global attributes
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  595. # [16:30] <kollapse> I'm working on a database application, and I need to execute some JS as soon as a DB operation has finished. For that, I need to insert JS code in a <script>via PHP.
  596. # [16:31] <Jayflux> mmhm
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  598. # [16:31] <Jayflux> why you need the id
  599. # [16:32] <kollapse> I've already made my Ajax functions take an element ID for it to know where to append the response "text".
  600. # [16:32] <kollapse> So in this case I need to append JS code in a script.
  601. # [16:33] <chee> kollapse: id is a global attribute and <script> takes global attributes. w3schools is very often incorrect. adding an id tag to a script was unsupported by netscape 4
  602. # [16:33] <chee> kollapse: do you need to support netscape 4
  603. # [16:33] <kollapse> Who cares about NS4 ?
  604. # [16:33] <chee> lol ikr
  605. # [16:33] <chee> kollapse: you'll be fine
  606. # [16:33] <kollapse> Wait, let me check the date.
  607. # [16:33] <kollapse> Nope, it's not 1995.
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  610. # [16:34] <kollapse> I don't even care about IE6.
  611. # [16:34] <chee> :D
  612. # [16:34] <kollapse> It's 11 years old, it's time for it to die already.
  613. # [16:35] <chee> certainly is.
  614. # [16:35] <chee> just like my kids
  615. # [16:35] <kollapse> What ??
  616. # [16:35] <chee> i mean
  617. # [16:35] * Parts: chee (~null@fsf/member/chee) ("--")
  618. # [16:36] <Jayflux> lolwut
  619. # [16:37] <kollapse> Was he a regular ?
  620. # [16:38] <Jayflux> not sure, didnt recognise him
  621. # [16:38] <eighty4> vu: It's not as bloated as the bigger IDEs, it has bundles for everything,
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  662. # [18:01] <SuperID> I'm developing a new webapp for a closed community of users. I'd really like to integrate simple person to person chat. I've been looking into websockets, but I haven't found a good chat solution.
  663. # [18:02] <SuperID> does anyone know of any good (simple) offerings? Free or $$$ is fine
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  670. # [18:22] <twisted`> is it still normal to use dl/dd lists for navigation links?
  671. # [18:22] <twisted`> it (used?) to be that google would index your site better
  672. # [18:22] <sephr> just use <nav>
  673. # [18:23] <sephr> navigation has nothing to do with definition lists
  674. # [18:23] <sephr> navigation is a form of unordered, or arguably ordered, list
  675. # [18:24] <twisted`> yeah I want to use the <nav> but wasn't sure if definition lists were still preferred like they were... uhm... 4 years ago :p
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  679. # [18:25] <sephr> what's a term that represents unsafe stuff to draw to canvas (unallowed third-party resources, browser chrome, etc.)?
  680. # [18:26] <twisted`> no idea what ur on about now so can't help ^_^
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  682. # [18:28] <twisted`> ah developing a website with the demand "latest tech preferred" is so much nicer then: "yeah it should work in IE7"
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  685. # [18:34] <twisted`> hmm funny how designers still mention a "different font size switcher"
  686. # [18:35] <twisted`> browsers have a very good zoom nowadays :p
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  857. # [23:33] <Jayflux> paul_irish what was the beanie link again?
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  860. # [23:44] <paul_irish> Jayflux: https://github.com/Wilto/igotmybeanie/issues
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  865. # Session Close: Mon Nov 21 00:00:00 2011

The end :)