/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-11-21 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Nov 21 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
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  30. # [00:44] <paul_irish_> the HTML store. dope ass shirts. http://item.rakuten.co.jp/icefield/c/0000000218/ not cheap tho
  31. # [00:44] <paul_irish_> http://item.rakuten.co.jp/icefield/10015791/ omg yes
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  42. # [01:09] <DavidBradbury> Hmm. So blog posts, in general, should be in <article> tags because they stand on their own. If the post is only a summary and not the full post, should it still be in in <article> tags?
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  118. # [04:10] <DeLorean719> I have a project I need to start doing... and I'm wondering if html5 canvas/javascript is the best approach to take
  119. # [04:11] <DeLorean719> doing it for a fencing business, I want someone to be able to draw (possible drag and drop parts) onto a grid for a fencing layout, then I can save information based on what they drag and derive a price
  120. # [04:11] <DeLorean719> is canvas a good approach to this?
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  123. # [04:17] <Pomax> no point in a canvas for that, you could just have them drag and drop divs
  124. # [04:18] <Pomax> something like http://jqueryui.com/demos/draggable/ for instance
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  144. # [05:13] <c_t_montgomery> heyo
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  146. # [05:22] <paul_irish_> yoo
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  202. # [07:53] <eighty4> morning
  203. # [07:53] <moo-_-> good european morning
  204. # [07:53] <eighty4> not really good :(
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  207. # [07:54] <moo-_-> tru da
  208. # [07:54] <moo-_-> t
  209. # [07:55] <moo-_-> eighty4: pour some coffee - it usually brings joy to a grey morning of monday :)
  210. # [07:57] <eighty4> moo-_-: I'm holding on the first cup until I get to work
  211. # [07:57] <eighty4> If I start already crazy things might happen
  212. # [07:58] <Pomax> crazy things like a totally awesome super success day!
  213. # [08:00] <moo-_-> Pomax: I see irony in your cheefulness
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  217. # [08:01] <Pomax> eh, I just finished baking for the night, so I get to look forward to sleep >_>
  218. # [08:02] <Pomax> but if someone made me some coffee, I'd probably not turn it down!
  219. # [08:02] <Pomax> (for the awesome)
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  221. # [08:03] <moo-_-> awesome arabic coffee
  222. # [08:03] <moo-_-> though I prefer columbian myself ^_^
  223. # [08:04] <eighty4> I just prefer coffee
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  226. # [08:05] <moo-_-> I found it very delightful to visit in Starbucks when I visited in US
  227. # [08:05] <moo-_-> we don't have those here (luckily)
  228. # [08:05] <moo-_-> but fancy coffee is fancy
  229. # [08:05] <moo-_-> you can't get over that
  230. # [08:05] <eighty4> starbucks or coffeeshops?
  231. # [08:05] <moo-_-> starbucks
  232. # [08:06] <moo-_-> coffeeshops tend to be kiosk style shops operated by one granny
  233. # [08:06] <moo-_-> or old fashioned ones with leather sofas
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  235. # [08:07] <moo-_-> if coffeescript were coffee it would be definitely in the fancy end
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  237. # [08:08] <Pomax> that's funny. I liked starbucks 8 year ago, now their coffee just always tastes burned.
  238. # [08:08] <Pomax> I avoid them like the plague these days, there's no good coffee to be had there anymore
  239. # [08:09] <Pomax> maybe they're better in Finland, they're shit in Canada =(
  240. # [08:09] <Pomax> (then again, we do have Tim Hortons, where a cup of coffee is a dollar. Rather than five)
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  246. # [08:23] <OzDave_imac> the real reason to avoid large coffee chains
  247. # [08:24] <OzDave_imac> the cup size is 1/2 or one quarter, the barrista thinks extracting the last bit is wise which makes it bitter & larger chains store the coffee longer then you care to like
  248. # [08:24] <OzDave_imac> ask to see the cup depth one day compared to a good cuppa at a local joe who does it right
  249. # [08:24] <OzDave_imac> Bot to mention the 400% markup
  250. # [08:24] <OzDave_imac> not*
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  252. # [08:42] <OzDave_imac> shudders at how many cups I have made
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  340. # [11:27] <lugzer> mornin
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  347. # [11:48] <biodegabriel> Hi All, Does anyone know the reasoning behind line 36 of the html5-boilerplate / css / style.css file, where the line-height is set without a unit? It's just "1.4".
  348. # [11:50] <lugzer> biodegabriel, http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2006/02/08/unitless-line-heights/
  349. # [11:51] <biodegabriel> lugzer: thanks!
  350. # [11:57] <biodegabriel> html5bp is so full of knowledge and wisdom, it's kinda sad to think that people are learning HTML/CSS with the assumption that they can master it all in a reasonable amount of time. css still makes me feel stupid and i've been working with it for years.
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  360. # [12:12] <Trisox> Q: if i fill in 1999 on the ipad on a input with type="number" it makes it in to 1.999 how do i prevent this?
  361. # [12:13] <Trisox> using steps ?
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  589. # [18:21] <jarek> Hi
  590. # [18:22] <jarek> do you know of any projects that are using JavaScript objects to represent CSS structure?
  591. # [18:22] <jarek> I mean something like CSSOM, but more elegant
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  597. # [18:28] <divya> jarek: what do you mean specifically?
  598. # [18:28] <divya> parse the CSS into Objects?
  599. # [18:28] <jarek> divya: yeah, I'm implementing CSS parser and I'm looking for inspirations
  600. # [18:28] <jarek> I'm not sure what would be the best way to represent CSS with objects
  601. # [18:29] <jarek> it's defenitely has to be a tree structure
  602. # [18:29] <divya> jarek: http://glazman.org/JSCSSP/ is one
  603. # [18:29] <divya> there are more for sure
  604. # [18:29] <jarek> divya: yeah, this is the most well known CSS parser
  605. # [18:29] <divya> jarek: i am sure less.js has one
  606. # [18:29] <jarek> its code is a disaster :/
  607. # [18:29] <divya> hahahah
  608. # [18:29] <divya> shhh
  609. # [18:30] <jarek> ahh... I forgot about the CSS-like languages
  610. # [18:31] <jarek> they might have some ideas to steal from
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  612. # [18:31] <jarek> dilvie: is Daniel Glazman (the author of JSCSSP) visiting this channel?
  613. # [18:31] <danielfilho> sorry jarek, I wish I was :)
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  615. # [18:32] <divya> jarek: he might be in #whatwg
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  617. # [18:32] <divya> as glazou
  618. # [18:32] <divya> https://github.com/mootools/slick is another that seems to exist
  619. # [18:32] <danielfilho> I'm just an ordinary guy learning and, sometimes, helping here :)
  620. # [18:32] <divya> zakas seems to have some too https://github.com/nzakas/parser-lib/tree/master/src/css
  621. # [18:33] <jarek> danielfilho: uhm... I don't undertand... are you THAT Daniel?
  622. # [18:33] <danielfilho> jarek: nope… I'm not… I'm THIS Daniel :)
  623. # [18:33] <danielfilho> brazilian, didn't wrote any book yet.
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  626. # [18:35] <jarek> divya: yup, but parser-lib is not building any object representation of CSS, instead it fires a bunch of events
  627. # [18:35] <divya> yeah i was just looking for parser projects on github :)
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  629. # [18:35] <jarek> is WebKit inspector using data from CSSOM?
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  631. # [18:35] <jarek> or is it parsing CSS using its own logic?
  632. # [18:36] <jarek> AFAIR it shows -moz- prefixes which is strange
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  636. # [18:40] <jarek> What is the current status of this spec? http://disruptive-innovations.com/zoo/cssvariables/
  637. # [18:40] <jarek> is it dead?
  638. # [18:40] <divya> there is some activity but its in dev.csswg.org and by tab atkins
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  661. # [19:11] <JonathanNeal> hi!
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  673. # [19:24] <xonecas> o/ top of the morning everyone
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  682. # [19:31] <JonathanNeal> to ye too, xonecas
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  691. # [19:39] <tdignan> I've got this project I'm working on in phonegap, and sqlite is starting to make me extremely angry (it's just not well suited to the case, I think) --- So I am starting to think about taking all the JSON i'm downloading, and just cramming it into local storage. How much can local storage really handle?
  692. # [19:39] <tdignan> on a mobile browser, ballpark
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  695. # [19:43] <Pomax> assume nothing. how much would you *need*?
  696. # [19:43] <Pomax> what's sqlite failing at that you want it to succeed at?
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  704. # [19:51] <tdignan> Pomax: I think the schema is just getting in the way
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  707. # [19:52] <Pomax> yeah but in the way of what =)
  708. # [19:52] <tdignan> I'd like to think that in the worst case, the required storage could be around 512mb
  709. # [19:52] <tdignan> Pomax: in the way, period...
  710. # [19:52] <Pomax> okay. not really an answer ;)
  711. # [19:52] <tdignan> In the way of normalization
  712. # [19:52] <tdignan> Well
  713. # [19:52] <Pomax> sadly, you'll get around 5mb max
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  715. # [19:53] <Pomax> but anything over 1mb for localstorage and you're trying to use it for something that you should an alternative means of storage for
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  717. # [19:53] <Pomax> *should use
  718. # [19:53] <tdignan> thank you
  719. # [19:53] <Pomax> I do a decent amount of work with sqlite, hence my question. if you find it limiting, I'd like to know how so I can bear that in mind in my own work
  720. # [19:54] <Pomax> (although that said, I use it as cache level database solution, and for storage repositories that won't grow to hundreds of megs. at that size, a real db solution makes far more sense)
  721. # [19:55] <tdignan> I'm currently working on 3 projects that use sqlite extensively
  722. # [19:55] <tdignan> the current project is just a bit of a nightmare
  723. # [19:55] <tdignan> i've got this remote mysql/django
  724. # [19:55] <tdignan> and the schema is different for mysql than sqlite
  725. # [19:55] <tdignan> when django does its magic
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  727. # [19:55] <tdignan> so I've tried switching the django over to sqlite, but that didn't work, because there's odd characters in the database that cause python to break
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  729. # [19:55] <moo-_-> tdignan: how did you switch DB?
  730. # [19:56] <tdignan> digging further, when I looked at views.py there were hardcoded references to mysql
  731. # [19:56] <moo-_-> you should be able to do JSON export/import
  732. # [19:56] <moo-_-> aha
  733. # [19:56] <tdignan> yeah, I made a script that feeds me the entire database one table at a time as json
  734. # [19:56] <tdignan> now I have a couple options to store it.. maybe I'll just make a generic sqlite table structure that is somewhat ignorant of the remote schema
  735. # [19:56] <tdignan> currently i'm trying to mirror the remote schema and it is not working so well.
  736. # [19:56] <Pomax> characters that break python? O_o
  737. # [19:56] <moo-_-> tdignan: django should supply such functionalit out of the box if django models were used
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  739. # [19:56] <Pomax> I thought python was fully unicode
  740. # [19:57] <moo-_-> Pomax: you can break it if you code sloppily
  741. # [19:57] <tdignan> Pomax: it is, but it's not as good at unicode as some other langs
  742. # [19:57] <Pomax> name one
  743. # [19:57] <tdignan> I haven't personally written the code
  744. # [19:57] <moo-_-> javascript
  745. # [19:57] <tdignan> Java
  746. # [19:57] <Pomax> haha
  747. # [19:57] <Pomax> but no
  748. # [19:57] <Pomax> both use UTF16
  749. # [19:57] <tdignan> sure
  750. # [19:57] <Pomax> java needs ICU to be unicode compliant
  751. # [19:57] <tdignan> utf16 is a unicode encoding
  752. # [19:57] <tdignan> well, it still works better in practice.
  753. # [19:57] <Pomax> javascript needs a lot of codepointat checks
  754. # [19:58] <Pomax> utf16 is a very specific "strings are not made of letters" encoding
  755. # [19:58] <Pomax> you get character at position 1, you don't know whether you have an ascii char, or 字, until you check whether that actually coded a surrogate pair
  756. # [19:59] <Pomax> it's one of the major problems with java and javascript for unicode programming
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  759. # [19:59] <JonathanNeal> tdignan: consider stash
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  761. # [20:00] <tdignan> sure will
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  763. # [20:00] <tdignan> I'm debating whether that's a bad idea atm, because the sql exports almost total 5mb
  764. # [20:00] <JonathanNeal> oh boy
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  766. # [20:01] <JonathanNeal> i heard you mention phonegap, so does that mean every device uses a version of webkit with sql lite?
  767. # [20:01] <tdignan> I believe it uses bindings to the host OS
  768. # [20:02] <tdignan> but I could be wrong
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  778. # [20:23] <twisted`> are vcard/hcards actually something people use or is it just something only people who blag/twitter use?
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  780. # [20:23] <twisted`> I need to 'format' a postaddress, a visiting address and a phonenumber
  781. # [20:23] <Pomax> can't say I ever used it
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  783. # [20:24] <twisted`> so I thought: sweet <address> but it's not recommended for anything non-email
  784. # [20:24] <moo-_-> twisted`: yes
  785. # [20:24] <moo-_-> I found them most useful on mobile
  786. # [20:24] <moo-_-> of course when having a device which supports them
  787. # [20:24] <twisted`> moo-_-: hmm, yeah exactly
  788. # [20:24] <moo-_-> not sure whether iOS supported them only through email and no HTTP download
  789. # [20:24] <twisted`> I dunno never tried that tbfh
  790. # [20:25] <moo-_-> which would be very apple'ish
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  792. # [20:25] <twisted`> but I dunno how to (looking at microformats.org) seperate a visitation address from a normal address in their spec
  793. # [20:25] <twisted`> lol
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  802. # [20:38] <twisted`> oh I love standards like this
  803. # [20:38] <twisted`> rofl
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  807. # [20:40] <ghinda> does anybody have any exp with yql?
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  809. # [20:43] <tantek> twisted - there are billions of pages with hCards on the web since 2010: http://microformats.org/2010/07/08/microformats-org-at-5-hcards-rich-snippets#billions-hcards
  810. # [20:44] <tantek> they're most often used used to easily create downloadable vCards that get added to people's address books, using the on-the-fly hCard to vCard converter http://h2vx.com/vcf/
  811. # [20:46] <tantek> twisted - in terms of distinguishing "types" of addresses, visitation, mailing, package etc., in practice few bother making that distinction
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  813. # [20:48] <tantek> could you provide the URL of the page you're marking up?
  814. # [20:48] <tantek> (also, feel free to hang out in #microformats where there are many more folks with microformats experience)
  815. # [20:48] <twisted`> tantek: yeah I think what I just made is proper
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  817. # [20:49] <tantek> cool - feel free to drop a URL in #microformats if you'd like folks to take a look, review it, give feedback etc.
  818. # [20:49] <twisted`> hmm near perfect
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  929. # [23:28] <velts> does anyone know how to tell if a video is playing or if a video has ended?
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  941. # [23:55] <andrewjbaker> Over on the browser-based games (#bbg) channel, we've been discussing the possibility of doing a lil' HTML5 game contest over the Xmas holidays. I'll post details somewhere handy at the end of this month. If you're interested, give me a shout.
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  945. # Session Close: Tue Nov 22 00:00:00 2011

The end :)