/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-12-01 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Dec 01 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
  3. # [00:00] * danielfilho is now known as danielfilho|afk
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  5. # [00:01] <djazz> I made a short demo of my HTML5 level editor, go watch it: http://youtu.be/48MAtjq6WaU?hd=1 ;)
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  8. # [00:03] <N0va> djazz, thats mental, nice!
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  10. # [00:04] <djazz> N0va: thx :)
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  12. # [00:05] <N0va> must have took a lot of work
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  14. # [00:05] <djazz> yup, released first version three years ago
  15. # [00:06] <djazz> althrough the code was completely rebuilt some times
  16. # [00:06] <djazz> this version maybe took half a year from scratch
  17. # [00:07] <djazz> I have seen some level editors made with HTML5, none as complex as this
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  19. # [00:07] <djazz> advanced*
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  32. # [00:21] <yamahaalex> what mobile platforms exist besides android, ios, and blackberry
  33. # [00:21] <djazz> symbian
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  42. # [00:26] <superevr> i have to watch the html5 editor in a flash video on youtube :(
  43. # [00:26] <OzDave_imac> you can activate the /html5 and hope its converted
  44. # [00:26] <OzDave_imac> www.youtube.com/html5
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  98. # [01:32] <newz2000> I have to ask, is there a story behind "hot pink!" (aka #fe57a1) in the HTML5 boilerplate?
  99. # [01:33] <divya> no
  100. # [01:33] <newz2000> Is that a signature?
  101. # [01:33] <divya> its just a fun color
  102. # [01:33] <divya> it has become so now.
  103. # [01:34] <newz2000> it is a fun color. :-)
  104. # [01:35] <paul_irish> ha
  105. # [01:35] <paul_irish> https://github.com/h5bp/html5-boilerplate/commits/e580422990d2267/css/style.css apparently it was one of the first things added https://github.com/h5bp/html5-boilerplate/commits/e580422990d2267/css/style.css
  106. # [01:35] <paul_irish> oops twice sry
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  109. # [01:37] <paul_irish> i _think_ i saw it on dribbble and liked it
  110. # [01:37] <paul_irish> its so saucy
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  112. # [01:37] <paul_irish> and at the time ::selection was so underused
  113. # [01:37] <newz2000> yeah, I have to thank you for that, I've wanted to know how to change that for a long time and wasn't motivated enough until #fe57a1
  114. # [01:39] <newz2000> Still, I'm never sure, should I change it to match my theme or wear it as an homage.
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  116. # [01:39] <newz2000> (this pondering is what caused me to ask just now)
  117. # [01:39] <newz2000> I guess I should just change it and say thanks. :-)
  118. # [01:40] <daleharvey> btw this is ugly as sin, I have only worked on it for the last 2 days on and off, but - http://junk.arandomurl.com/Protoshop/
  119. # [01:40] <newz2000> neat!
  120. # [01:40] <daleharvey> now, anyone got good recommendations for a good input='number' slider shim
  121. # [01:41] <divya> newz2000: as long as your content is readable :P
  122. # [01:41] <newz2000> yeah, I'm going through a white background phase lately. The hot pink actually looks pretty good there.
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  124. # [01:42] <newz2000> daleharvey: have you played with khan academy's website? I saw something there that would be a perfect fit for your photoshop.
  125. # [01:42] <newz2000> if you go to khanacademy.org and click practice at the top, then Addition 1 (or whatever)
  126. # [01:43] <newz2000> Then show scratchpad on the top right of the sidebar
  127. # [01:43] <newz2000> It's a little html5 drawing pad, but it uses svg
  128. # [01:43] <newz2000> The code is in github, it's remarkably clever and simple
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  131. # [01:43] <daleharvey> yeh that is neat
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  203. # [03:22] <daleharvey> anyone happen to know when firefox is getting input type="range" ?
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  206. # [03:24] <jackp10> hi to everyone
  207. # [03:24] <jackp10> i was trying to find out is there is an html5 version of an innovative web presenter website
  208. # [03:24] <yamahaalex> wtf ie puts random border around my iframe, and i have iframe{border:0px
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  211. # [03:25] <jackp10> at the moment the only samples i have seen includes flash in a website with transparent background (generally using chroma keys)
  212. # [03:25] <jackp10> but (of course) apple mobile devices does not run flash, therefore the whole web presenter experience is flushed into toilet.
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  214. # [03:26] <jackp10> does anyone knows if it is possible to set background / alpha transparency to html5 video components
  215. # [03:26] <jackp10> ?
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  264. # [05:11] <franksalim> telnet miku.acm.uiuc.edu
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  285. # [05:37] <paul_irish> daleharvey: i keep asking that and they dont seem to prioritize it. so odd.
  286. # [05:38] <paul_irish> daleharvey: if you look at the bugzilla dependcy tree for it
  287. # [05:38] <paul_irish> its ENORMOUS
  288. # [05:38] <paul_irish> ha
  289. # [05:38] <daleharvey> ah well, firefox can deal with plain text inputs
  290. # [05:38] <paul_irish> YUP it can.
  291. # [05:38] <daleharvey> good timing though, can I make webkits range thing reverse its direction? :D
  292. # [05:38] <daleharvey> http://junk.arandomurl.com/Protoshop/
  293. # [05:39] <paul_irish> how reverse
  294. # [05:39] <daleharvey> click on one of the inputs that has 0
  295. # [05:39] <daleharvey> in fact, I am being dumb
  296. # [05:39] <daleharvey> I can just set the value to max, ignore me :)
  297. # [05:39] <paul_irish> ignoring
  298. # [05:40] <paul_irish> you can also transform rotate
  299. # [05:40] * Quits: austinbv (~austinbv@73-188.96-97.tampabay.res.rr.com) (Quit: austinbv)
  300. # [05:40] <paul_irish> but eff that
  301. # [05:40] <dr0id> hello mr.paul
  302. # [05:41] * daleharvey is pretty chuffed I got ^ that far in 2 days, its my new christmas sideproject
  303. # [05:43] <Pomax> needs masking O_O
  304. # [05:45] <paul_irish> daleharvey: srsly. its good
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  308. # [05:49] <zachsmith> daleharvey: I drew a picture, can I save?
  309. # [05:50] <daleharvey> :D not quite yet (you can copy and paste localStorage.saved into http://pastebin.me though :P
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  311. # [05:54] <zachsmith> http://pastebin.com/gNdhcqnW
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  313. # [05:56] <zachsmith> I 'like it tho, I'm going to bookmark it, maybe someday it'll be better than photoshop O_o
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  326. # [06:20] <Pomax> daleharvey, add some paper.js path-based stroking?
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  328. # [06:21] <daleharvey> thats the plan, although thee a bunch to be done before that comes
  329. # [06:22] <Pomax> heh
  330. # [06:22] <Pomax> I tried using processing.js
  331. # [06:22] <Pomax> http://processingjs.nihongoresources.com/CJK%20builder/ is about as far as I got
  332. # [06:22] <daleharvey> but yeh, want to build a tool thats actually design towards web design (not a wysiwyg site builder)
  333. # [06:22] <Pomax> (then again, I did take the detour of working out the math myself >_>)
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  335. # [06:23] <Pomax> ah, nice
  336. # [06:23] <daleharvey> *designed towards
  337. # [06:23] <Pomax> still waiting for that "load bookmarklet, EDIT SITE YOU SEE RIGHT NOW O_O"
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  339. # [06:23] <daleharvey> heh yup thats one of the things I am planning on
  340. # [06:23] <Pomax> I really should figure out the firefox extension API and write that "I don't like your site (anymore)" extension for completely overruling page layout and CSS ^_^
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  342. # [06:24] <Pomax> you know x-ray goggles, right?
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  344. # [06:24] <Pomax> or... damn, what was it called.
  345. # [06:24] <daleharvey> ?
  346. # [06:24] <Pomax> it was initially to get school kids to fiddle with pages, by mozilla. it worked really well for that.
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  349. # [06:24] <Pomax> it's also cool when you're an adult
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  351. # [06:25] <Pomax> of course! http://hackasaurus.org/en-US/
  352. # [06:26] <Pomax> it's one of those "lol, I'll never forget that URL" and then you promptly forget it >_>
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  361. # [06:40] <Moonies> http://hackasaurus.org/en-US/events/
  362. # [06:40] * Moonies stares
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  369. # [06:59] <Pomax> heh, Nairobi
  370. # [06:59] <Pomax> the biggest hell hole in the "developing" world =(
  371. # [07:00] <Pomax> scratch the "heh", actually =(
  372. # [07:01] <Pomax> there's a serious problem when your nation implements western conveniences, but people still have 5 wives and 20 children because that's status...
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  383. # [07:27] <grantg> hey franksalim
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  385. # [07:27] <grantg> Do people have to use the blob response in IE10 for binary reading?
  386. # [07:27] <grantg> responseText with fromCharCode works in every other browser
  387. # [07:28] <grantg> last I checked, IE9 couldn't do binary reading
  388. # [07:29] <grantg> noticed IE10 demos try to use the blob response, which I'd rather not actually do (I have my js libs read from the strings directly, to prevent typed arrays from being required).
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  390. # [07:29] <grantg> ex: Firefox 3 compat (and old FF doesn't have typed arrays)
  391. # [07:30] <grantg> also
  392. # [07:30] <grantg> that was the weird thing with the IE10 demo
  393. # [07:30] <grantg> like as if typed arrays were REQUIRED for reading binary responses
  394. # [07:30] <grantg> They didn't provide a fallback for older browsers with no typed array support
  395. # [07:31] <grantg> Which I do xmlhttprequests of binary data all the time without typed arrays. :)
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  397. # [07:33] <grantg> anyone else know whether IE10 allows classic responseText usage for binary data requests?
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  404. # [07:49] <sand_> hellOOOoooo
  405. # [07:50] <sand_> out there
  406. # [07:50] <grantg> hey
  407. # [07:50] <sand_> so what's new
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  409. # [07:50] <sand_> is everyone here a drifter?
  410. # [07:50] <grantg> IE 10 has typed array support now
  411. # [07:51] <sand_> sweet
  412. # [07:51] <grantg> Trying to find out if it supports binary data via classic responseText though
  413. # [07:51] <grantg> For legacy support
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  415. # [07:51] <grantg> and so typed arrays are not required for binary processing
  416. # [07:51] <grantg> for xmlhttprequest loading
  417. # [07:52] * grantg doesn't have a windows 8 copy. :P
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  470. # [09:05] <JonathanNeal> good evenin'
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  479. # [09:20] <grantg> heh, a wild division by 9223372036854775807.5 appears in some audio code. :/
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  536. # [10:56] <matjas> gaaahhh http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8338846/is-there-a-way-to-create-a-text-that-has-a-background-image-in-css/8338869#8338869
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  538. # [10:57] <matjas> 1) post a helpful code sample that answers OP’s question
  539. # [10:58] <matjas> 2) random guy comments “WHAT IS THIS YOU CAN’T DO THAT” and downvotes
  540. # [10:58] <matjas> *sigh*
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  544. # [11:02] <dw> hi. is there any DOM event that fires for a failed iframe load when the iframe src is within the same origin as the parent page?
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  547. # [11:09] <ghinda> did anybody manage to run IE7.exe from http://www.iecss.com/spoon/ ?
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  819. # [17:59] <Pomax> what the hell, javascript
  820. # [17:59] <Pomax> var i = 92233720368547752; i; -> 92233720368547740
  821. # [17:59] <Pomax> var i = 92233720368547753; i; -> 92233720368547760
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  823. # [18:04] <JonathanNeal> hi again
  824. # [18:04] <Pomax> yo'z
  825. # [18:05] <Jackneill> <meta charset="ISO-8859-2" />
  826. # [18:05] <Jackneill> <!--<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=iso-8859-2">-->
  827. # [18:05] <Jackneill> can you help me?
  828. # [18:06] <Jackneill> i tryed that
  829. # [18:06] <Jackneill> but it doesnt work, any idea?:)
  830. # [18:06] <Jackneill> i googled thta and i found the second, but also doesnt work with hungarian chars (öüöüöó)
  831. # [18:06] <Pomax> is there a specific reason you don't like UTF8?
  832. # [18:06] <Jackneill> pomax: in UTF-8
  833. # [18:06] <Pomax> because that's kind of the charset you want to go with.
  834. # [18:06] <Jackneill> the hungarian chars like a '?'
  835. # [18:06] <Pomax> not ISO-8859-2
  836. # [18:07] <Jackneill> it's the middle europe char encode
  837. # [18:07] <Pomax> I know, but that doesn't mean you should use it online =/
  838. # [18:07] <Pomax> write your .html file as a utf8 encoded document and use meta charset="utf-8".
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  841. # [18:08] <Pomax> (this makes whatever codepage your system is set up for basically irrelevant. as long as the characters are in unicode, it'll work)
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  949. # [20:10] <franksalim> \o/
  950. # [20:10] <franksalim> Pro HTML5 Programming 2nd edition is OUT
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  959. # [20:18] <moo-_-> franksalim: linkz or didn't happen
  960. # [20:18] <moo-_-> :)
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  966. # [20:28] <bf4648> hey room
  967. # [20:28] <bf4648> got a question about html5
  968. # [20:28] <moo-_-> shoot
  969. # [20:29] <moo-_-> in IRC, they are called channels though :)
  970. # [20:29] <bf4648> Can you pass in a clip record into html 5 in the source src =
  971. # [20:29] <bf4648> for example, I've got the following code: <source src="' . $url . '?mode=record" type=\'video/mp4; codecs="avc1.42E01E,mp4a.40.2"\' />
  972. # [20:29] <moo-_-> what's a clip record?
  973. # [20:29] <moo-_-> yes
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  975. # [20:30] <moo-_-> bf4648: https://developer.mozilla.org/En/HTML/Element/Audio
  976. # [20:30] <bf4648> I'd like to pass in an offset that is stored in the data base to the url
  977. # [20:30] <moo-_-> bf4648: it is a back-end question how to feed data from database as HTTP stream and not related to HTML5
  978. # [20:30] <moo-_-> bf4648: I suggest you ask #php
  979. # [20:30] <moo-_-> HTTP does not differ with files, streams, etc.
  980. # [20:31] <bf4648> I see..alright...well I guess I'll go to another room
  981. # [20:31] <moo-_-> channel :)
  982. # [20:32] <bf4648> *channel
  983. # [20:32] <bf4648> It tells me that #php is invite only..crap
  984. # [20:32] <Jayflux> ##php
  985. # [20:35] <bf4648> aparently there is a lot of people in the room b/c it is not letting me in
  986. # [20:35] <moo-_-> bf4648: also you might need to register your nick with freenode.net
  987. # [20:35] <moo-_-> it applies for some channels, not sure about php
  988. # [20:36] <moo-_-> it's for spamming reasons
  989. # [20:36] <Jayflux> yeah you need to be registered to join ##php
  990. # [20:36] <Jayflux> otherwise you'll be sent to overflow
  991. # [20:36] <bf4648> oh great...did you see my question though Jayflux
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  993. # [20:37] <Jayflux> i don't see why not, in terms of html5 audio ive been using jplayer so far
  994. # [20:41] <bf4648> alright...I just know where to pass it...?mode=record+offset?
  995. # [20:41] <moo-_-> bf4648: it depends how you save your audio and where
  996. # [20:41] <moo-_-> bf4648: audio API supports seeking
  997. # [20:41] <moo-_-> if your server supports byte range requests
  998. # [20:41] <moo-_-> bf4648: maybe you could tell us little bit background of your question
  999. # [20:42] <moo-_-> I have a gut feeling you might be thinking it wroing
  1000. # [20:43] <bf4648> alright...I got clips from videos that are stored in a database...when a user clips a portion of the video in the video editor...an offset and a length are stored in the database...I would like to know pass in the offset and the length through the $URL variable to play exactly @ that offset and for the length that is stored in the database
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  1002. # [20:44] <Rickk> hi. Does anybody know what does this "Install Web App on your desktop" (that sites like ft.com or youtube.com offer) button actually installs on the iphone? is it just a url link file or something else? Or Mobile Safari extension? and why these websites, if I don't install their "web app" complain that they can't function fully?
  1003. # [20:45] <moo-_-> bf4648: you don't actually need to do it
  1004. # [20:45] <moo-_-> bf4648: audio API supports seeking
  1005. # [20:45] <moo-_-> bf4648: if your web server supports byte range requests
  1006. # [20:45] <moo-_-> and you can seek the file in javascript
  1007. # [20:45] <bf4648> well, these videos don't have any audio so I'm just interested in passing in the offset
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  1009. # [20:45] <moo-_-> bf4648: it's generic medialement api
  1010. # [20:45] <moo-_-> covers videos as well
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  1013. # [20:46] <moo-_-> bf4648: try here https://developer.mozilla.org/En/Using_audio_and_video_in_Firefox
  1014. # [20:46] <bf4648> ok so that's the link for the seeking that you are referring too?
  1015. # [20:46] <bf4648> ok..spoke too fast
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  1018. # [20:48] <bf4648> ok I see the info about seeking...is that inside the video tags?
  1019. # [20:48] <bf4648> or is that javascript?
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  1023. # [20:50] <bf4648> ?
  1024. # [20:51] <moo-_-> bf4648: the article tells
  1025. # [20:51] <moo-_-> bf4648: keep reading background material and figure out how it is working
  1026. # [20:51] <moo-_-> then you can apply it to your own problem :)
  1027. # [20:51] <moo-_-> bf4648: dev.opera.com also has good articles related to HTML5 video and audio
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  1029. # [20:52] <moo-_-> bf4648: I suggest you start with a static HTML5 <video> and play around with it a bit
  1030. # [20:52] <moo-_-> before trying to solve the mastermind problem
  1031. # [20:53] <bf4648> alright...guess I will play around instead of having all questions answered ...lol
  1032. # [20:53] <moo-_-> bf4648: the trick is that you don't know yet what questions to ask :P
  1033. # [20:54] <bf4648> lol...well I came to the right place then
  1034. # [20:54] <bf4648> *though
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  1044. # [21:00] <bf4648> Alright...I've decided to do a <video onload = (some javascript) ...
  1045. # [21:02] <eggsby> I support your decision to use javascript
  1046. # [21:04] <bf4648> lol
  1047. # [21:04] <bf4648> alright thanks
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  1058. # [21:11] <moo-_-> bf4648: inline Javascript is bad
  1059. # [21:11] <moo-_-> I suggest you learn to use jQuery and event binding :)
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  1061. # [21:11] <moo-_-> bf4648: keep your JS in .js file and PHP as PHP
  1062. # [21:12] <bf4648> well, I guess it would be normally but this is a really simple player
  1063. # [21:12] <bf4648> it isn't working either
  1064. # [21:13] <bf4648> I guess it is loading too quickly
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  1070. # [21:19] <Pomax> hence the "learn event binding" =)
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  1076. # [21:20] <Pomax> never trust onload. $(document).ready() is nice, but even document.addEventListener("DOMContentReady", function(){ /* do stuff here*/ }, false) will do.
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  1078. # [21:23] <BrianBlakely> Something looks very wrong here: http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser-na-monthly-201012-201111
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  1090. # [21:39] <moo-_-> how things look in a civilized country http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser-FI-monthly-201012-201111
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  1094. # [21:40] <bf4648> Alright...this stuff is getting complicated
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  1105. # [21:56] <necolas> JonathanNeal: hey jon, how'd you guys get on with that viewport testing?
  1106. # [21:57] <JonathanNeal> well, did you see the gist?
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  1108. # [21:58] <necolas> JonathanNeal: yeah but you said some of the data might have been funky
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  1110. # [21:59] <necolas> was just checking in. thanks for even attempting to collect all the data to compare with previous attempts.
  1111. # [22:00] <JonathanNeal> where can i find the previous attempts?
  1112. # [22:00] <necolas> JonathanNeal: did you have a test url?
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  1114. # [22:00] <JonathanNeal> yes, it's attached to the gist @ https://gist.github.com/1410787
  1115. # [22:00] <necolas> JonathanNeal: well that's kinda the problem. i dont think anyone really provided systematic documentation of results that lead to one approach or the other
  1116. # [22:01] <necolas> JonathanNeal: doh! thanks. can i post this in the issue so others can share their results from your test page?
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  1120. # [22:02] <JonathanNeal> yes please
  1121. # [22:03] <JonathanNeal> i hadn't because i hadn't finished collecting the initial results.
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  1125. # [22:06] <necolas> thanks :)
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  1133. # [22:13] <JonathanNeal> Does accessing .outerHTML trigger reflow or repaint?
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  1135. # [22:14] <JonathanNeal> got the answer.
  1136. # [22:15] <franksalim> JonathanNeal: share the answer?
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  1138. # [22:15] <JonathanNeal> franksalim: it does not. outerText does.
  1139. # [22:16] <JonathanNeal> As indicated by http://gent.ilcore.com/2011/03/how-not-to-trigger-layout-in-webkit.html
  1140. # [22:16] <franksalim> interesting!
  1141. # [22:16] <JonathanNeal> credits to paul_irish for reminding me of that source.
  1142. # [22:17] <andrewjbaker> Wahoo! Paul Rouget published my article on pixel manipulation with typed arrays. http://hacks.mozilla.org/2011/12/faster-canvas-pixel-manipulation-with-typed-arrays/
  1143. # [22:17] <paul_irish> https://developer.mozilla.org/En/DOM/Node.textContent#Differences_from_innerText
  1144. # [22:17] <andrewjbaker> Firefox only for now... but Uint8ClampedArray for ImageData is part of the HTML5 spec, so Google should follow suit soon.
  1145. # [22:17] * andrewjbaker looks at paul_irish. :-p
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  1147. # [22:18] <franksalim> andrewjbaker: awesome!
  1148. # [22:19] <andrewjbaker> franksalim, very mate. Am incredibly grateful.
  1149. # [22:19] <shichuan> JonathanNeal: you have tested the behavior of this issue on iphone iOS5? https://github.com/h5bp/html5-boilerplate/issues/824
  1150. # [22:19] <socialhapy> ★ Issue #824 on html5-boilerplate, reported by alexgibson (1m, 1w ago): Remove initial-scale=1.0 from meta viewport
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  1153. # [22:20] <shichuan> JonathanNeal: i don't see how the result looks better when removing the intial-scale
  1154. # [22:20] <shichuan> *initial
  1155. # [22:22] <JonathanNeal> i was collecting the results of various meta viewport values, i wasn't yet formulating an opinion on them.
  1156. # [22:22] <JonathanNeal> shichuan
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  1160. # [22:24] <drublic> shichuan, JonathanNeal: if you need help for some testing stuff, let me know (got iOS 5 on iPhone, iOS 5 on iPad and Android 2.3)
  1161. # [22:25] <paul_irish> andrewjbaker: plz find/file the ticket
  1162. # [22:25] <JonathanNeal> drublic: check out my results @ https://gist.github.com/1410787
  1163. # [22:25] <paul_irish> probably in v8 tracker
  1164. # [22:25] <shichuan> drublic: http://www.highub.com/c/
  1165. # [22:25] <drublic> JonathanNeal: jup i saw this
  1166. # [22:25] <JonathanNeal> you could verify or refute my results for iOS safari/opera, but what would be really helpful would be to test an Android.
  1167. # [22:25] <shichuan> i have a simple page without initial-scale
  1168. # [22:26] <shichuan> don't see what's the benefit of removing it
  1169. # [22:26] <andrewjbaker> paul_irish, I think smus is on it dude.
  1170. # [22:26] <drublic> JonathanNeal: great. i'll check for samsung galaxy 1 with android 2.3
  1171. # [22:26] <paul_irish> o rly? (he's next to me)
  1172. # [22:26] <drublic> shichuan: is this a test page?
  1173. # [22:26] <andrewjbaker> Prod him in the ribs for me then. :-p
  1174. # [22:27] <JonathanNeal> shichuan, personally, i want all of the results first.
  1175. # [22:27] <JonathanNeal> drublic: my test pages for that gist are located at http://sandbox.thewikies.com/orientation/
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  1177. # [22:27] <drublic> JonathanNeal: k, checking it…
  1178. # [22:27] <shichuan> JonathanNeal: ok, cool
  1179. # [22:28] <jarek> is it possible to change prototype of existing object?
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  1181. # [22:28] <jarek> I mean the real prototype (the one accessed via __proto__)
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  1183. # [22:29] <andrewjbaker> paul_irish, there's this mate... not sure which smus bumped previously... http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=101378
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  1185. # [22:30] <andrewjbaker> paul_irish, linked... https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=73011
  1186. # [22:30] <paul_irish> andrewjbaker: add kbr@chromium to that ticket
  1187. # [22:32] <andrewjbaker> Aye, aye cap'n.
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  1189. # [22:33] <Trisox> hey paul_irish
  1190. # [22:33] <paul_irish> Trisox: ask in here.
  1191. # [22:33] <Trisox> oke
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  1193. # [22:33] <Trisox> i was thinking of proposing to use html 5 elements in a big webshop and refector the current code
  1194. # [22:33] <paul_irish> but there is not a big seo advantage from my POV
  1195. # [22:33] <Trisox> i wonder does using html5 have any + point on the seo area?
  1196. # [22:33] <paul_irish> schema.org is a better time investment
  1197. # [22:33] <Trisox> and since i need to suport ie7 there things i should watch out for?
  1198. # [22:33] <Trisox> you got any idea how the google crawlers handle html5 cause its one of the things they are realy putting a lot of work in and money
  1199. # [22:34] <Trisox> ah k
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  1202. # [22:34] <Trisox> wy i ask is cause div in div in span ect makes no sence realy... with out reading the classes and id's i wanned to make things more furture proof
  1203. # [22:34] <Trisox> and more readable for developers a like
  1204. # [22:35] <Trisox> ill defently take a look @ schema.org
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  1206. # [22:36] <Trisox> the thing is there is not always room to use html elements or new stuff and i want to dive deeper in new posibilitys
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  1208. # [22:36] <Trisox> html = html5
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  1210. # [22:37] <Trisox> i mean using html5 in webshops i can see be verry usefull and the elements would make more sense
  1211. # [22:38] <jarek> Trisox: HTML5 is not just about new tags
  1212. # [22:38] <Trisox> i know
  1213. # [22:38] <jarek> Trisox: if you want to convince your boss to go with HTML5 then you need better arguments :P
  1214. # [22:38] <Trisox> but using article for an article and title for title etc makes more sence the div div span etc
  1215. # [22:38] <Trisox> i know ;)
  1216. # [22:39] <Trisox> well its not my boss i need to convince the client :P
  1217. # [22:39] <Trisox> i try to figure out the big plus and min's
  1218. # [22:39] <jarek> Trisox: what kind of application are you developing?
  1219. # [22:39] <Trisox> big webshop
  1220. # [22:39] <jarek> Trisox: is it for mobiles?
  1221. # [22:39] <Trisox> its already there
  1222. # [22:40] <Trisox> no not directly
  1223. # [22:40] <andrewjbaker> paul_irish, kbr@chromium did not match anything. :-s
  1224. # [22:40] <Trisox> most users are not mobile
  1225. # [22:40] <Trisox> i just got on the project like 7 weeks a go almost finished cleaning up stuff people for me did..
  1226. # [22:41] <Trisox> loads of refectoring
  1227. # [22:42] <andrewjbaker> paul_irish, ah... on the Chromium one, they're the owner mate. Ignore me. ;-)
  1228. # [22:42] <Trisox> html5 is not only for mobile :P
  1229. # [22:42] <drublic> JonathanNeal: https://gist.github.com/1420051 :)
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  1231. # [22:43] <dwarder> you exist thank god =)
  1232. # [22:43] <dwarder> lots of peaple in here :)
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  1234. # [22:43] <Trisox> :D
  1235. # [22:43] <dwarder> people*
  1236. # [22:43] <JonathanNeal> drublic: excellent, adding to the collection, whats your twitter name?
  1237. # [22:43] <Trisox> google plus plzz :D
  1238. # [22:43] <drublic> JonathanNeal: thank you @drublic
  1239. # [22:43] <Trisox> nice over view :)
  1240. # [22:44] <drublic> JonathanNeal: downloading opera mobile and will test this 1 2
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  1242. # [22:45] <JonathanNeal> drublic: thank you, and your results are now @ https://gist.github.com/1410787
  1243. # [22:45] <dwarder> are there other tools to convert your html5 appl to android appl besides https://build.phonegap.com/ ?
  1244. # [22:46] <drublic> JonathanNeal: cool. thank you
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  1249. # [22:48] <jarek> dwarder: http://www.sencha.com/products/touch/
  1250. # [22:48] <Trisox> any of you as front-end dev have any certifications?
  1251. # [22:49] <Trisox> i mean is it usefull
  1252. # [22:49] <Trisox> i wonder
  1253. # [22:49] <jarek> dwarder: and http://www.appcelerator.com/
  1254. # [22:49] <Velmont> JonathanNeal: what's p and l?
  1255. # [22:50] * Joins: dr1337 (~textual@CPE-120-147-24-40.lflg2.win.bigpond.net.au)
  1256. # [22:50] <JonathanNeal> p = portrait, l = landscape
  1257. # [22:50] * Joins: JNZ (JNZ@unaffiliated/jnz)
  1258. # [22:50] <Trisox> :D
  1259. # [22:50] <JonathanNeal> i added the definition to a key at the top.
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  1262. # [22:51] <dwarder> jarek: thanks a lot
  1263. # [22:51] <jarek> dwarder: but keep in mind that they all suck
  1264. # [22:51] <JonathanNeal> Velmont: ^
  1265. # [22:51] <Trisox> JonathanNeal: i got ipad 2 do i need to test anything for you?
  1266. # [22:51] <dwarder> jarek: huh? :)
  1267. # [22:52] <dwarder> jarek: which one suck less?
  1268. # [22:52] <dwarder> why suck
  1269. # [22:52] <jarek> dwarder: they are all awfully bloated, just take a look at the APIs
  1270. # [22:53] <JonathanNeal> Trisox: it would be great if you could run the tests too. the test pages are at http://sandbox.thewikies.com/orientation/ and the results are being collected for https://gist.github.com/1410787
  1271. # [22:53] <Trisox> oke ill surf to it one sec
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  1273. # [22:53] <drublic> JonathanNeal: updated with opera mobile https://gist.github.com/1420051
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  1275. # [22:54] <JonathanNeal> drublic: that one pixel difference shows up on apple devices too.
  1276. # [22:55] <JonathanNeal> drublic: is opera mobile the same as opera mini?
  1277. # [22:55] <Trisox> your logging it JonathanNeal
  1278. # [22:55] <drublic> JonathanNeal: mh. on iPad 1, just saw this. weird.
  1279. # [22:55] <Velmont> JonathanNeal: mini and mobile are quite different :-) But maybe not in this regard.
  1280. # [22:55] <Trisox> JonathanNeal: i visited all pages
  1281. # [22:56] <drublic> JonathanNeal: I don't think so. divya, yt?
  1282. # [22:56] <JonathanNeal> you have to manually log the results from the test page, it's a bit time consuming, Trisox. Once you collect the results, i add it my big sheet.
  1283. # [22:56] <divya> drublic: sup
  1284. # [22:56] <drublic> divya: is opera mini and mobile different?
  1285. # [22:56] <divya> very much so.
  1286. # [22:56] <drublic> divya: great. thank you!
  1287. # [22:57] <divya> :)
  1288. # [22:57] <drublic> JonathanNeal: I'll test it!
  1289. # [22:57] <JonathanNeal> great
  1290. # [22:57] <jarek> drublic: those are two different browsers
  1291. # [22:57] <dwarder> is there a better and easyer to install linux android emulator?
  1292. # [22:57] <dwarder> than sdk one
  1293. # [22:57] <drublic> JonathanNeal: 2morrow. have to leave now. sorry. I'll let you know when I updated via twitter, k?
  1294. # [22:58] <drublic> jarek: thank you. I really don't like having so much mobile-browsers on the market - i'm not informed srys. ;)
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  1296. # [22:58] <dwarder> wrong chan i guess
  1297. # [23:00] <shichuan> http://tripleodeon.com/2011/12/first-understand-your-screen
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  1299. # [23:03] <Velmont> johnkpaul: http://dpaste.com/664558/
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  1302. # [23:04] <Trisox> http://i.fokzine.net/upload/11/10/111027_8443_2011-10-25.png <-- so true...
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  1313. # [23:11] <johnkpaul> Velmont: I'm guessing that wasn't for me
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  1316. # [23:12] <Velmont> JonathanNeal: http://dpaste.com/664558/
  1317. # [23:13] <Velmont> johnkpaul: Thanks ;-)
  1318. # [23:13] <johnkpaul> :) np
  1319. # [23:14] <JonathanNeal> Velmont: thank you! did i already get your twitter name? if not, what is it?
  1320. # [23:14] <JonathanNeal> Velmont: also, what is the native browser labeled?
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  1322. # [23:17] <Velmont> JonathanNeal: "Web". -- I don't really use twitter, I'm one of those crazy people on identi.ca :-)
  1323. # [23:18] <Velmont> But I mostly use Velmont as handle in places, -- and odinho sometimes as well.
  1324. # [23:19] <JonathanNeal> Velmont: when going from portrait to landscape to portrait and getting different results, was that on all pages or just some?
  1325. # [23:19] <Velmont> JonathanNeal: It was on the ones where there's an extra p in the paratheses.
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  1327. # [23:20] <Velmont> JonathanNeal: Wow, come to think of it, tested now, -- it actually does it with the others as well.
  1328. # [23:20] <JonathanNeal> Velmont: so if i used a Nokia N9 (MeeGo) (handheld) and loaded meta-none in portrait mode i would see 980x1519
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  1330. # [23:21] <JonathanNeal> then, if i rotated it to landscape, i would see 706x335. then, if i refreshed it while in landscape i would see 978x465?
  1331. # [23:21] <Velmont> JonathanNeal: Yes, -- then going to landscape: 978x465. then back to portrait: 299x646.
  1332. # [23:22] <JonathanNeal> 299?
  1333. # [23:22] <Velmont> It seems to zoom in on each rotate.
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  1335. # [23:22] <JonathanNeal> whoa.
  1336. # [23:23] <JonathanNeal> and is that last number, 98x152, correct?
  1337. # [23:23] <Velmont> Yep.
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  1339. # [23:23] <JonathanNeal> holy moly, so we have a range from 980px to 98px
  1340. # [23:23] <JonathanNeal> just in portrait mode.
  1341. # [23:24] <Velmont> Hmm. AH! Come to think of it! It's when I've touched the screen. If I just keep my fingers off, it's more reliable.
  1342. # [23:25] <JonathanNeal> let me know if the results are different if you limit your interactions to loading/refreshing and rotating.
  1343. # [23:27] <Velmont> Ok, still somewhat crazy, although better. I'm updating.
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  1352. # [23:29] <jarek> what's the most advanced CSS editor on the market?
  1353. # [23:29] <Velmont> would prolly need: initial l initial p l -> p p -> l to be able to write down the behaviours.
  1354. # [23:30] <jarek> is there actually any editor that would support CSS3 features?
  1355. # [23:30] <Velmont> jarek: I really feel Dragonfly in Opera, Firebug for Firefox and Web Inspector for Chrome is really good as CSS-editors. Maybe not exactly what you're thinking about though.
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  1357. # [23:30] <JonathanNeal> Velmont: as long as i can understand it :)
  1358. # [23:31] <jarek> Velmont: but those are more like inspectors, it's not possible to save your changes
  1359. # [23:31] * Joins: Kazii (~Kazii@unaffiliated/kazii)
  1360. # [23:32] <jarek> Velmont: if there was CSS editor that offers exactly the same features as Dragonfly/Firebug/Chrome Inspector, would you use it instead of regular text editor?
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  1363. # [23:38] <franksalim> I found a number of CSS3 properties in the Microsoft Expression Blend 5 preview, interestingly enough. Many of them have -ms- vendor prefixes, of course.
  1364. # [23:38] <Velmont> jarek: I'm quite happy with how I have it today :-) But I want to have a feature to see the diff of what I've done in the inspect tool. -- Maybe I should try to see how hard it'd be to do it in Dragonfly.
  1365. # [23:38] <franksalim> You'll have to pry my text editor out of my dead hands, though
  1366. # [23:40] <jarek> so you are switching between the CSS inspector, text editor and preview? Are you really happy with that? :/
  1367. # [23:41] <jarek> it would be so awesome if the changes done in inspector could be saved to file by pressing ctrl+s
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  1369. # [23:41] <Velmont> jarek: switching? preview? I have vim on one screen, and Opera with Dragonfly taking half each of the other screen. And I jump between the screens by Super+left Super+right. It's really very efficient :-)
  1370. # [23:42] <jarek> Velmont: but you are also pressing F5 each time when there is new change, right?
  1371. # [23:42] <Velmont> jarek: Yes, I'd also like that for some stuff. I was looking at it before.
  1372. # [23:43] <Velmont> jarek: Yes, but it's not like it's really slow to do :-)
  1373. # [23:43] <franksalim> jarek: it is possible to have the browser pick up changes when you save your file
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  1375. # [23:43] <franksalim> i don't typically bother to do that. i hit ctrl-r
  1376. # [23:44] <franksalim> but you can have a script watch the directory you are working in and refresh your page or something similar
  1377. # [23:44] <jarek> what I would like to have is real time CSS editor
  1378. # [23:45] <jarek> when you change any CSS property then the changes are applied automaticaly
  1379. # [23:46] <jarek> when you write "border-radius" then corresponding "-webkit-border-radius" and "-moz-border-radius" are inserted
  1380. # [23:46] <jarek> when you edit "@animation" rule, then corresponding "@-webkit-animation" rule is updated
  1381. # [23:46] <jarek> and so on
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  1383. # [23:46] <jarek> this would greatly increase the productivity
  1384. # [23:47] <Velmont> JonathanNeal: http://dpaste.com/664574/ -- the wifi went down so it was a bit hard getting teh results now. But there it is. -- And i wrote both 496 and 469, it's 496 that's correct there.
  1385. # [23:47] <JonathanNeal> Velmont: i like the way you did that.
  1386. # [23:48] <jarek> with each year we have more vendor prefixes to type, the things are getting really hard to type by hand
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  1388. # [23:50] <Velmont> jarek: prefixes are getting general bad mood. It's starting to make the web a bit broken. -- And, yes, it's a pain in the butt to write 6-7 lines of code for background: linear-gradient() when most of them could just read what I wrote behind there.
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  1391. # [23:52] <Jon47> with tools like css3please, it's not so bad..
  1392. # [23:52] <jarek> Velmont: creating an editor that would automatically insert vendor prefixes is very easy, I'm not sure why nobody has done that yet
  1393. # [23:52] <jarek> I'm wondering if this is because therere is no demand for such tool
  1394. # [23:53] <Jon47> there are many such tools, not sure about for an editor
  1395. # [23:53] <jarek> Jon47: yeah, I mean exactly something like css3please, but it would allow you to edit your own file and eventually save it to disk
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  1400. # [23:54] <jarek> btw, I'm asking all those questions because I'm writing such tool right now
  1401. # [23:54] <jarek> but I have doubts whether anyone besides me will want to use it :P
  1402. # [23:55] <jarek> also, there is another huge feature missing from almost all CSS editors:
  1403. # [23:55] <jarek> media queries support
  1404. # [23:56] <jarek> it's not possible to preview the site as it would appear on screen with e.g. 'device-width: 300px'
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  1406. # [23:56] <jarek> afaik only Dreamweaver supports it at the moment, but Dreamwaver is a joke overall
  1407. # [23:57] <Jon47> you can just change the size of the window..
  1408. # [23:57] <jarek> Jon47: this will change "width" media query, "device-width" will stay the same
  1409. # [23:57] <Jon47> ah gotcha
  1410. # [23:57] <jarek> Jon47: how about "orientation", should I rotate my monitor?
  1411. # [23:57] <Jon47> haven't done much with media queries so far, so the distinction is beyond me
  1412. # [23:58] <Jon47> you can use a simulator
  1413. # [23:58] <Jon47> that's what most people do
  1414. # [23:58] <jarek> media queries are going to be *very important* in the upcoming years
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  1416. # [23:58] <jarek> you can't do mobile sites without them
  1417. # [23:59] <Jon47> previewing your mobile site in a desktop version of chrome is never gonna be exactly the same as it will be on an actual device
  1418. # [23:59] <jarek> Jon47: so if I want to test my app on three different configurations then I have to fire 3 emulators?
  1419. # [23:59] <Jon47> configurations?
  1420. # [23:59] <jarek> Jon47: like different screen resolutions, number of colors, pixel ratio
  1421. # [23:59] <Jon47> oh ya
  1422. # Session Close: Fri Dec 02 00:00:00 2011

The end :)