/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-12-05 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Dec 05 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
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  5. # [00:04] <mmp> hello world
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  12. # [00:09] <mmp> ack
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  18. # [00:18] <mmp> so how about that html5? any takers?
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  22. # [00:23] <OzDave_imac> html5 is alive
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  25. # [00:25] <mmp> Any canvas2d hackers out there? I'm working on a foss project...
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  46. # [00:49] <Pomax> thatryan, what did you have in mind in terms of "jsperf for css"? what would it check?
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  49. # [00:55] <thatryan> Pomax: i was just curious which was was faster selecting an element i have
  50. # [00:58] <Pomax> like class vs. id?
  51. # [00:59] <paul_irish> thatryan: mr matjas has been trying to get a cssperf launched but hasnt yet
  52. # [00:59] <Pomax> hmm, but how would you test this without native code?
  53. # [00:59] <thatryan> paul_irish: oh cool, that could be sweet
  54. # [00:59] <paul_irish> thatryan: but. for all intents and purposes css perf is a microoptimization and you'd better spend time on your pagespeed score
  55. # [01:00] <thatryan> right, i was totally just curious as i was workign on the markup
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  61. # [01:07] <Pomax> oh, here's a question I had for el HTML5 presiders - how do I go about indicate the major languages on a page?
  62. # [01:08] <Pomax> say I have a page that's in English and Japanese, which are fairly mutually exclusive, how would I indicate this?
  63. # [01:08] <Pomax> (and should this influence how browsers select fallback fonts?)
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  69. # [01:22] <thatryan> paul_irish: are you going to event apart next week?
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  71. # [01:33] <paul_irish> thatryan: no
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  73. # [01:34] <paul_irish> maybe should go to talk things over with zeldy
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  75. # [01:35] <thatryan> does that mean punch him? lol
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  97. # [02:17] <yamahaalex> can i load a custom font into my site?
  98. # [02:18] <yamahaalex> .tff
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  108. # [02:25] <Pomax> yamahaalex: yes, just use an @font-face rule
  109. # [02:26] <yamahaalex> <style type="text/css">
  110. # [02:26] <yamahaalex> @font-face {
  111. # [02:26] <yamahaalex> font-family: "maldeojo";
  112. # [02:26] <yamahaalex> src: url("fonts/MAL_DE_OJO.ttf");
  113. # [02:26] <yamahaalex> }
  114. # [02:26] <yamahaalex> </style>
  115. # [02:26] <yamahaalex> that didnt work
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  121. # [02:39] <divya> yamahaalex: use font-squirrel generator
  122. # [02:39] <divya> ?g font squirrel generator
  123. # [02:39] <bot-t> divya, Font Squirrel | Create Your Own @font-face Kits - http://www.fontsquirrel.com/fontface/generator
  124. # [02:40] <moo-_-> +1 font squirrel
  125. # [02:40] <moo-_-> it works
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  212. # [06:17] <thatryan> why does the short protocol ( src="//ajax.g....) not work locally?
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  218. # [06:26] <paul_irish> thatryan: because it resolves to file://
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  222. # [06:34] <thatryan> paul_irish: ah that makes sense, thanks
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  226. # [06:51] <martisj> Anybody know how to bypass firefox or chromes browser validation?
  227. # [06:51] <martisj> i.e. set modernizr capabilities manually?
  228. # [06:51] <martisj> or some other way?
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  232. # [06:55] <grantg> oh look, another opera crash that takes out mac os x. -_-
  233. # [06:56] <grantg> Opera 11, you so classy. :|
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  243. # [07:18] <obert-> ot: on mac is there something to read .doc?
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  245. # [07:19] <Pomax> there's microsoft office for mac?
  246. # [07:19] <Pomax> pretty sure that reads .doc
  247. # [07:20] <martisj> yeah and pages
  248. # [07:20] <martisj> textedit should also be able to read it
  249. # [07:20] <Pomax> does it do .doc or only rtf?
  250. # [07:25] <martisj> I'm not sure.
  251. # [07:25] <martisj> maybe just rtf
  252. # [07:25] <martisj> i know there is a free doc reader called something with coffee
  253. # [07:26] <martisj> not sure about the name
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  255. # [07:27] <obert-> Pomax: ok thanks
  256. # [07:27] <obert-> gotcha,thanks
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  270. # [07:49] <obert-> rtf?
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  274. # [07:51] <obert-> bah. too many file ext ;)
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  276. # [07:51] <obert-> .html rox:p
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  278. # [07:53] <dr0id> *rocks
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  299. # [08:54] <obert-> Stray end tag base. <base href="http://site/"></base> what kind of error is?
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  303. # [08:56] <obert-> dont get it
  304. # [08:58] <obert-> no </base> ? mm
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  306. # [08:59] <obert-> mah
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  342. # [10:12] <yamahaalex37> does anyone know a cool show-off effect like webGL, but compatibly with more browsers?
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  358. # [10:18] <jetienne> yamahaalex37: try this http://www.chromeexperiments.com/
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  361. # [10:21] <yamahaalex37> jetienne, isnt that webgl
  362. # [10:21] <yamahaalex37> im looking for some cool effects to show off, but prob 2d js
  363. # [10:21] <yamahaalex37> to work with more browsers
  364. # [10:21] <jetienne> yamahaalex37: see the category, most arent 3D
  365. # [10:21] <yamahaalex37> does it say what browsers theyre compatible with?
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  371. # [10:37] <moo-_-> yamahaalex37: webGl is compatible with Firefox, Safari, Chrome
  372. # [10:38] <moo-_-> no mobile browser support yet
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  376. # [10:42] <iaincarsberg> hey, can you use css3's @keyframes to hide/show sub elements?
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  383. # [10:53] <niftylettuce> i just discovered READYMADE FC
  384. # [10:53] <niftylettuce> moo-_-: you can run it in Mobile Firefox I though?
  385. # [10:53] <niftylettuce> thought*
  386. # [10:54] <moo-_-> well yeah
  387. # [10:54] <niftylettuce> :)
  388. # [10:54] <moo-_-> but I'd say Mobile Firefox market share is nowhere near big enough to consider it as a normal user alternative :)
  389. # [10:54] <moo-_-> unfortunately
  390. # [10:54] <moo-_-> though I am a user myself :)
  391. # [10:54] <niftylettuce> for testing purposes *only*
  392. # [10:54] <niftylettuce> :)
  393. # [10:55] <niftylettuce> jetienne: did you disable deviceorientation in marblesoccer?
  394. # [10:55] <niftylettuce> jetienne: i tried testing from mobile firefox, no workies
  395. # [10:56] <jetienne> niftylettuce: maybe ... it bother me when i dev with my mac on my lap :)
  396. # [10:56] * niftylettuce cries
  397. # [10:57] <niftylettuce> when are you gonna integrate multiplayer :)?
  398. # [10:57] <niftylettuce> spectator camera lol
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  400. # [10:59] <jetienne> niftylettuce: multiplayer is a drag due to the servers....
  401. # [11:00] <jetienne> niftylettuce: you need low latency for each player so you may need many servers distributed around the world... this is very expensive in money and time
  402. # [11:00] <jetienne> niftylettuce: i would love to tho... but i dunno how to do it
  403. # [11:01] <jetienne> niftylettuce: i will reenable deviceorientation when i code the game options popup
  404. # [11:01] <yamahaalex37> how do is ee the ppl that liked this?
  405. # [11:01] <yamahaalex37> http://eternaware.com/index.php/downloads/item/1-content-rotate
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  416. # [11:29] <yamahaalex37> shouldnt display:block make html5 sections render in ie8?
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  423. # [11:33] <yamahaalex37> wtf happened to html5shiv
  424. # [11:33] <yamahaalex37> http://code.google.com/p/html5shiv/downloads/list
  425. # [11:33] <JakeA> https://github.com/monoceroi/html5shiv
  426. # [11:34] <yamahaalex37> thanks
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  467. # [13:41] <niftylettuce> hmm prepopulated html5 required input's don't automatically get validated, why is this? I added autocomplete="off" but I don't want it like that
  468. # [13:42] <niftylettuce> chrome 16.0.912.41 beta
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  512. # [15:23] <QuackQuacker> Hi im reading up the latest HTML5 editors, something is notice is the http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#text-level-semantics
  513. # [15:23] <QuackQuacker> Does this mean i should use html5 text-level tags on my text?
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  515. # [15:24] <QuackQuacker> i moved away from <strong> and etc when CSS applied instead
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  518. # [15:27] <JakeA> Use <strong> to give extra importance to a portion of text
  519. # [15:28] <JakeA> eg: <strong>Do not</strong> use strong just to make some text bold
  520. # [15:28] <JakeA> "Do not" is important in that sentence, so you can wrap it in <strong>
  521. # [15:29] <JakeA> But if you wanted to make a heading bold, don't use <strong>, just use CSS to make the heading element bold
  522. # [15:29] <QuackQuacker> so a reset sheet removing all style from text-lavel semantics
  523. # [15:30] <QuackQuacker> would be reasonable?
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  525. # [15:30] <QuackQuacker> and i should use text-level-semantics for a better semantic site?
  526. # [15:30] <QuackQuacker> Many thanks for your patience and time JakeA
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  528. # [15:32] <JakeA> Yeah, use text semantics where appropriate
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  530. # [15:33] <JakeA> Style them however you want. Eg, you could make <strong> text appear not-bold and red
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  532. # [15:33] <JakeA> Entirely up to you
  533. # [15:36] <QuackQuacker> Thanks
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  578. # [16:35] <Jon47> I'm creating a character counter for indicating to the user how many more characters they will be allowed to enter into a text field.. any suggestions on what tag is appropriate? I noticed that twitter uses input[disabled] for this feature
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  607. # [17:30] <Jon47> noticed a little joke at twitter's expense on the html5 working draft: https://twitter.com/#!/Jon47/status/143726914887090176
  608. # [17:30] <socialhapy> ★ Tweet from Jon47: Ha! I wonder who took this swipe at Twitter on the W3's HTML5 working draft: http://t.co/mKtU2ank ★ http://bit.ly/sAiMZI
  609. # [17:30] <Jon47> wtf ..
  610. # [17:30] <Jon47> who is socialhapy
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  623. # [17:43] <martndemus> its a bot. -> https://twitter.com/#!/paul_irish/status/143550707793010689
  624. # [17:43] <socialhapy> ★ Tweet from paul_irish: David Calhoun summarized a wide swath of mobile specific performance knowledge recently: http://t.co/brnYNARm ★ http://bit.ly/rD9tPo
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  674. # [18:34] <JonathanNeal> remysharp: afarkas says there is a bug in the new shim.
  675. # [18:34] <JonathanNeal> paul_irish: you saw afarkas post?
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  679. # [18:35] <JonathanNeal> Anyway, he's on Skype so I'll try to talk to him about it.
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  731. # [19:39] <BrianBlakely> Hello
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  781. # [20:49] <moo-_-> http://www.wagon-bertrand.fr/southParkCSS3/index.html vs. IE8 http://i.imgur.com/F8KsN.png
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  833. # [21:46] <prodn> I want to display information from a database in a list with two columns. Since one should only use <table> for tabular data, <dl> only accepts <dt> and <dd>, and <ul>/<ol> does not allow to group <li>'s inside span either, what would you think is the best way to do this? A twist here is that it's not two separate lists, the first value in column 1 belongs to the first value in column 2. I know I could do some <span style="display:block;"> to add things togeth
  834. # [21:49] <prodn> A tag which allowed groups as child-elemtns, such as <select> and <optgroup> for <option>'s would be perfect. Is there such an element I might've missed?
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  836. # [21:51] <tantek_> prodn - that sounds like tabular data
  837. # [21:52] <tantek_> with only two columns of data, you can potentially use either <table> or <dl>, depending on the semantics of the two columns
  838. # [21:52] <prodn> althought the 2nd column is much shorter. I would not like to use tables, it feels all wrong, and I think you'd agree if you saw the layout
  839. # [21:53] <tantek_> <dl> is only really appropriate if the first column is essentially providing a label or a term which is described/defined by the second column
  840. # [21:53] <tantek_> e.g. property: value
  841. # [21:53] <tantek_> or term: definition
  842. # [21:53] <prodn> tantek_: In each "cell" there's a "title" and a "description" - or if you are familiar with databases, the field and the information in that row
  843. # [21:53] <tantek_> is the "description" an expansion or definition of the "title" ?
  844. # [21:54] <prodn> let me try to describe with a small code-snippet
  845. # [21:54] <tantek_> or sample bit of the data?
  846. # [21:55] <tantek_> the other possibility is a nested list also
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  848. # [21:55] <tantek_> though that is weaker semantically than a <table>
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  850. # [21:56] <tantek_> if each row and column has a semantic connection (they're related) then <table> makes more sense than multiple lists (nested)
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  854. # [21:56] <prodn> <dt>Room<dt><dd>Kitchen</dd> <dt>Number<dt><dd>2</dd> / <dt>Seats</dt><dd>8</dd> <dt>Type of seats</dt><dd>Chairs<dd> / <dt>Window</dt><dd>Yes</dd>
  855. # [21:57] <prodn> tantek_: / meaning a horozontal space
  856. # [21:57] <prodn> "/" - hspace
  857. # [21:57] <prodn> that is, on the first row, in each column, I want: "Room: Kitchen | Number: 2"
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  859. # [21:58] <prodn> on second row "Seats: 8 | Type of seats: Chair"
  860. # [21:58] <tantek_> does that mean there are 2 kitchens?
  861. # [21:58] <tantek_> or kitchen is room #2?
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  863. # [21:58] <prodn> tantek_: it was a complete nonsense exmaple, but no, it meant room No 2
  864. # [21:58] <tantek_> <dl> doesn't allow content like "/" inbetween dd and dt elements like that
  865. # [21:59] <prodn> the last row would have only a left column, as you can see
  866. # [21:59] <prodn> tantek_: yes I know. "/" in my example only shows where I want the next row
  867. # [21:59] <tantek_> is "2" the "id" of the room?
  868. # [21:59] <prodn> it was not intended as code. Sorry for that.
  869. # [22:00] <prodn> tantek_: the room or the numbers don't exists, what I am really doing is something else, like showing a list of personal data or something
  870. # [22:00] <prodn> I just wanted to show you how I am trying to make two columns in the same list
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  873. # [22:02] <tantek_> yeah - I was trying to understand the data relationships to determine which markup would make the most semantic sense
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  875. # [22:02] <prodn> okay, the number had with the room to do. Say it was room #2, - labeld "2" on the door
  876. # [22:03] <prodn> the next row had with its seats to do
  877. # [22:03] <tantek_> so it's like:
  878. # [22:03] <tantek_> room-number: 2
  879. # [22:03] <tantek_> room-type: kitchen
  880. # [22:03] <prodn> so the first rows belong together, the second row in the first and last column belong together, and yes to your last question
  881. # [22:04] <tantek_> by "belong together" do you mean presentationally?
  882. # [22:04] <prodn> yes
  883. # [22:04] <tantek_> the " / " should be added with generated content since it is presentational
  884. # [22:05] <tantek_> but yeah , it sounds like you could decompose the whole thing into a <dl>
  885. # [22:05] <tantek_> with <dt> for the labels for
  886. # [22:05] <tantek_> and <dd> for each data value
  887. # [22:05] <tantek_> make it completely flat
  888. # [22:05] <tantek_> put class names on them
  889. # [22:05] <prodn> I am very good with the stylesheets, so... what I really need is a list with group-elements so that the code still validates
  890. # [22:05] <tantek_> and then use CSS to achieve the "belong together" and "/" presentational effects
  891. # [22:05] <prodn> tantek_: yes true. Well that's what I thought
  892. # [22:06] <tantek_> why do you need group elements? the example you provided looked completely flat
  893. # [22:06] <prodn> so there is no equal tag for grouping like with <select> and <optgroup> then? I mean for lists?
  894. # [22:06] <tantek_> well, grouping works with nesting
  895. # [22:06] <tantek_> with a <ul> inside an <li>
  896. # [22:06] <tantek_> or a <dl> inside a <dd>
  897. # [22:06] * Parts: doro_ (~Adium@207.215.212.90)
  898. # [22:06] <prodn> because, well. If I had a group-element, I could easily group 3 elements to 3 columns also
  899. # [22:07] <tantek_> but you shouldn't use markup grouping to achieve presentational effects
  900. # [22:07] <prodn> flexible. It would just be the right thing to do - I mean, if there were such an element at all - seems not to
  901. # [22:07] <tantek_> semantically it looks like your data is a flat list of labels and data
  902. # [22:07] <prodn> tantek_: I completley understand. Although if there were such an element, I should've totally used that, don't you think? =)
  903. # [22:08] <prodn> Thanks anyway
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  905. # [22:09] <prodn> Im just gonna class them with inline and block display styles, as you suggested
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  907. # [22:12] <prodn> well - hving the code in front of me I noticed that I would have to make both the <dt> and <dl> display as inline or block elements wheter it'¨s the first or last column. If you were allowed to have other shild elements in <dl> I would use <span> to group them, and then just make the <span> display as a block element. It saves code for alot of pages. Do you see the problem?
  908. # [22:13] <prodn> I will paste somewhere-1 min
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  914. # [22:23] <prodn> tantek_: or someone else intrested: http://pastebin.com/m92qvA2r
  915. # [22:23] <prodn> line 3-17 displays what I want to do, although it's not correct markup
  916. # [22:24] <prodn> line 21-29 is correct markup, but more advanced, might not be compatible in all browsers
  917. # [22:26] <tantek> prodn - aha - ok then you have two choices
  918. # [22:26] <tantek> 1. you can either use multiple <dl>s
  919. # [22:27] <tantek> (e.g. one for each displayable "block" that you want)
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  921. # [22:28] <tantek> 2. or you can use *either* float or inline-block with set % widths to make them layout on a line like you want
  922. # [22:28] <tantek> (the dts and dds)
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  924. # [22:29] <tantek> plus if you're actually marking up names of people and their addresses like that - you can add hCard support for more semantic/search goodness.
  925. # [22:29] * Joins: zeppo (~zeppo@h237n2fls34o891.telia.com)
  926. # [22:30] <tantek> can you do a quick asciiflow diagram of what you want the result to look like?
  927. # [22:30] <prodn> yes
  928. # [22:30] <tantek> http://www.asciiflow.com/
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  932. # [22:32] <prodn> http://www.asciiflow.com/#1665105911720363382/2010526747 is this good enaugh?
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  934. # [22:33] <prodn> tantek: I want to be able to change between having one column and not having one column, depending on the length of the data
  935. # [22:33] <prodn> two columns*
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  937. # [22:35] <prodn> check again, made a little change to better understand
  938. # [22:35] <prodn> http://www.asciiflow.com/#1665105911720363382/2010526747
  939. # [22:35] <tantek> right - got it
  940. # [22:35] <prodn> brb 3 min, and thanks, brb!
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  943. # [22:36] <tantek> hmm - this may be possible with using float:left and class names on the individual elements, and then using "clear:left" on the dts which *must* start on a new "line"
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  948. # [22:40] <prodn> tantek: not too bad. Than I could enclose the whole <dl> with a <div> to specify the while width - well, or I could just set the width on <dl> ofc.
  949. # [22:40] <tantek_> bingo
  950. # [22:40] <prodn> tantek_: thanks alot. I think that is definitly the best way to go on about it
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  952. # [22:40] <tantek_> and btw in your ascii flow I think you meant dd instead of dl for all the "cells" next to the dts
  953. # [22:40] <prodn> tantek_: I was lost searching for alternatives with lists and tables and all. :)
  954. # [22:40] <tantek_> (just checking to make sure)
  955. # [22:40] * root is now known as Guest44391
  956. # [22:41] <tantek_> you should be able to do the whole thing inside one dl
  957. # [22:41] <prodn> tantek_: yes I did mean dt instead :
  958. # [22:41] <tantek_> and each field with its own dt and dd
  959. # [22:41] <prodn> I mean dd
  960. # [22:41] <prodn> doh
  961. # [22:41] <tantek_> :)
  962. # [22:41] <tantek_> are you familiar with hCard?
  963. # [22:41] <tantek_> it's basically just special class names for shared semantics
  964. # [22:42] <tantek_> so in the case of marking up a person (e.g. the pastebin example)
  965. # [22:42] <tantek_> you would put class="vcard" on the dl
  966. # [22:42] <prodn> I am not. Although this will be a closed database, like an internal site, not meant for outsiders to search or exporting data to other systems
  967. # [22:43] <tantek_> and then class="PROPERTY" on each dd respectively, where PROPERTY is something like fn, given-name, family-name, street-address, locality, etc.
  968. # [22:43] <tantek_> ah ok
  969. # [22:43] <prodn> and then again, it's not really about people, well not only. It's about other things - just that I thought people were a better example than rooms :)
  970. # [22:43] <tantek_> well it can still be useful for folks using a browser with a plugin for example
  971. # [22:43] <tantek_> right
  972. # [22:43] <tantek_> people are a good example :)
  973. # [22:43] <prodn> I will definitly check into it
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  975. # [22:44] <prodn> working against a time schedule, so that will be something I import later though
  976. # [22:44] <tantek_> check out the Operator extension for Firefox for example https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/operator/
  977. # [22:44] <prodn> thanks
  978. # [22:44] * Joins: mattlucht (~mattlucht@81.152.253.180)
  979. # [22:44] <prodn> saved it for later reading. Now it's bed-time ^_^
  980. # [22:45] <tantek_> and there is a similar plugin for Chrome also: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/oalbifknmclbnmjlljdemhjjlkmppjjl
  981. # [22:45] <tantek_> great
  982. # [22:45] <tantek_> sleep well - and good luck with your HTML+CSS!
  983. # [22:45] <prodn> to think HTML can still make one confused. Well, you encounter new things to overcome in every program so :P
  984. # [22:45] <tantek_> indeed
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  986. # [22:46] <prodn> I also do programming at work, so HTML should not be a big deal, I mean, after learning advanced php,sql,jQuery and so on :]
  987. # [22:46] <prodn> I'll have a nice sleep now thanks to you, really good helping here
  988. # [22:46] <prodn> thanks again
  989. # [22:46] <prodn> and bye bye :]
  990. # [22:47] <tantek_> ttyl!
  991. # [22:47] <prodn> :) *off
  992. # [22:51] <philihp> dear #html5, how can i convince my department to abandon Adobe Flex?
  993. # [22:52] <martndemus> wtf is adobe flex? =D
  994. # [22:52] * martndemus googlin
  995. # [22:55] <martndemus> so if im right, flex is some kind of thing, that lets you make websites/apps etc in flash?
  996. # [22:55] <tantek> philihp - perhaps you could ask them for the use-cases they are solving with Adobe Flex, and then share the use-cases here in #html5 and let us suggest ways to use HTML5+CSS+JS instead?
  997. # [22:55] <tantek> (this sounds like a good HTML5 FAQ btw)
  998. # [22:56] * Joins: simenbrekken (~simenbrek@c85-196-101-98.static.sdsl.no)
  999. # [22:57] <philihp> the main cited reason is that developing layouts are faster in flex because of a lack of browser incompatibilities. i have a feeling this prejudice comes from experiences in XHTML and HTML4
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  1001. # [22:58] <tantek> that can depend on the layouts being used
  1002. # [22:58] <tantek> right now, unfortunately the accurate answer is, "it depends"
  1003. # [22:58] <tantek> (on multiple things)
  1004. # [22:58] <tantek> e.g. take Flexbox as an example
  1005. # [22:58] <tantek> lots of folks want to develop HTML+CSS layouts with flex box
  1006. # [22:58] <martndemus> (haha, flex-box)
  1007. # [22:59] <tantek> but we're far from a modern browser interop on that
  1008. # [23:00] <tantek> we need a) solid public updated draft (coming any day/week now from TabAtkins who's been working very hard on it), b) browser to update their prefixed versions to support that updated draft, c) test cases to exercise those features and demonstrate some interop, d) a LC draft and CR (hopefully soon thereafter), and then e) browsers to support unprefixed flex-box.
  1009. # [23:01] <martndemus> f) ie6/7/8
  1010. # [23:01] <tantek> so it's going to be a while (6-12 months minimum?) before you can "depend" on modern browsers to support it interoperably.
  1011. # [23:01] <tantek> and yeah, there's the legacy
  1012. # [23:02] <philihp> i showed them caniuse.com... that seemed to pique some interest
  1013. # [23:02] <tantek> if they're saying it must work in IE6 that's going to limit what you can use from the open web platform
  1014. # [23:02] <tantek> similarly IE7, IE8...
  1015. # [23:02] <philihp> our department does internal tools. at a minimum, it should work on IE9
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  1017. # [23:02] <tantek> that's not too bad of a baseline.
  1018. # [23:03] <philihp> yeah
  1019. # [23:03] <martndemus> thats far from a worst case scenario
  1020. # [23:03] <tantek> at least with that you can use floats fairly reliably cross-browser/platform
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  1022. # [23:03] <philihp> would you say that's advanced enough to get rid of a lot of HTML5 browser incompatibilities?
  1023. # [23:03] <tantek> philihp if you're talking about layout, then the question is one of CSS browser incompatibilities.
  1024. # [23:04] <martndemus> ie9 doesnt support a whole lot of html5 features, but the more common interesting ones, it does
  1025. # [23:04] <martndemus> but not flex-box though
  1026. # [23:05] <paul_irish> https://www.google.com/search?q=sin(x) :)
  1027. # [23:05] <tantek> nor is any current implementation of flex-box something you can depend on
  1028. # [23:05] <philihp> some examples of interesting features that do?
  1029. # [23:05] <tantek> (the model is changing)
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  1031. # [23:05] <martndemus> but then there is a flexbox like polyfill
  1032. # [23:05] <philihp> another often cited reason for "staying" with flex/flash, is that there's nothing html5 does that flash can't.
  1033. # [23:06] <philihp> this makes me cringe, but i don't have the experience with it to cite any counter-examples
  1034. # [23:06] <tantek> philihp - haha - that's funny
  1035. # [23:06] <tantek> flash can't get you good search results :P
  1036. # [23:06] <LongBeach> hey
  1037. # [23:06] <martndemus> that doesnt matter for intranet apps
  1038. # [23:07] <LongBeach> i'm looking for a clear example of drag and drop of a file in HTML5
  1039. # [23:07] <LongBeach> any clue ?
  1040. # [23:07] <tantek> oh, and Flash kind of has this problem with *mobile*
  1041. # [23:07] <tantek> ahem
  1042. # [23:07] <philihp> that's a good point. it's hard to index flash apps. most of our apps don't need to be indexed -- but some do by our intranet search
  1043. # [23:07] <tantek> presumably some people might want to use mobile devices with their intranet apps
  1044. # [23:07] <tantek> and that's usually enough
  1045. # [23:07] <philihp> if we did any intranet apps that needed to be mobile, we'd do them natively. this is what our R&D department does for customer-facing things.
  1046. # [23:08] <tantek> anything content-heavy or worth *searching* for or worth using on a mobile device should be in HTML, not FLash
  1047. # [23:08] <martndemus> i think your strongest argument here will be, that, flash is *dying*
  1048. # [23:09] <philihp> yeah, the writing is on the wall
  1049. # [23:10] <philihp> i know this, and you know this
  1050. # [23:10] <martndemus> although it will take about the same amount of years to die out as ie6/7/8 will take
  1051. # [23:10] <martndemus> hell
  1052. # [23:10] <philihp> a little part of me misses the days when IE 6 was on 95% of the computers.
  1053. # [23:10] <philihp> (but then i remember PNG support)
  1054. # [23:11] <martndemus> my school is still teaching Flash to the Communication Multimedia Design students
  1055. # [23:13] * Quits: serroba_ (~serroba@190-20-202-172.baf.movistar.cl) (Remote host closed the connection)
  1056. # [23:13] <martndemus> (i do think multiple browsers is a good thing, it sparks progress)
  1057. # [23:14] <martndemus> (its the old browsers like FF3.6 and IE6/7/8 etc that were left behind with, that are the problem)
  1058. # [23:14] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@206.217.92.186) (Quit: miketaylr)
  1059. # [23:15] <philihp> i want to do sexual things to the engineers of chrome responsible for making it update automatically
  1060. # [23:15] <Jon47> ooh please tell us more
  1061. # [23:17] <martndemus> philihp: it looks like FF is going to have autoupdate in version 10 or 11 too
  1062. # [23:17] <martndemus> safari pretty much updates with the updater built in os x
  1063. # [23:18] <philihp> i wonder if MS is afraid of an IE auto-update because of security reasons
  1064. # [23:18] <martndemus> and i think even Opera prompts their users to update (dunno for sure)
  1065. # [23:19] <martndemus> I think IE (all browsers for that matter) should have an opt-out auto updater
  1066. # [23:19] <martndemus> automatically updates by default
  1067. # [23:19] <martndemus> but doesnt if you really dont want it to
  1068. # [23:19] <michaelrtm> but why would you not want it to?
  1069. # [23:19] * Quits: Paradoxial (~Paradoxia@74-93-218-10-WashingtonDC.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  1070. # [23:20] <michaelrtm> people update their cars more often than their browsers
  1071. # [23:20] <martndemus> i have no fing clue, but something about corperate people that like stable tested platforms and whatnot
  1072. # [23:23] * Joins: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113)
  1073. # [23:23] <martndemus> @ paul_irish awesome new thing :)
  1074. # [23:24] <paul_irish> :0
  1075. # [23:26] <martndemus> hmm doesnt take negative really easy
  1076. # [23:26] <philihp> @michaelrtm https://twitter.com/#!/philihp/status/143816849447059458
  1077. # [23:26] <socialhapy> ★ Tweet from philihp: #HTML5 on FreeNode: &lt;michaelrtm&gt; people update their cars more often than their browsers ★ http://bit.ly/vuCymy
  1078. # [23:27] <tantek> [ citation needed ]
  1079. # [23:28] * Quits: plh (~plh@30-7-178.wireless.csail.mit.edu) (Quit: always accept cookies)
  1080. # [23:28] <martndemus> =D
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  1084. # [23:35] <michaelrtm> :D
  1085. # [23:38] * Joins: OzDave_imac (~OzDave@27-33-43-79.static.tpgi.com.au)
  1086. # [23:38] <martndemus> https://www.google.com/search?q=sqrt((-1x)%5E2%2B10)-3.1,+-1(sqrt((-1x)%5E2%2B10)-3.2),+1.3x,+-1.3x
  1087. # [23:39] <martndemus> too bad it's limited to 4 functions
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  1091. # [23:44] <divya> hah
  1092. # [23:44] <divya> neat
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  1095. # [23:45] <martndemus> google is now 100% more awesome then my venerable ti-84
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  1103. # [23:54] <superevr> what changed?
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The end :)