/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-12-10 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sat Dec 10 00:00:00 2011
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
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  8. # [00:08] <tw2113> if i wanted to get my hands a bit wet with node, would this be a recommended place to start? http://www.nodebeginner.org
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  18. # [00:13] <jarek> Hi
  19. # [00:13] <jarek> where can I download older dev releases of Chrome?
  20. # [00:13] <jarek> the dev tools from current release are unusable
  21. # [00:13] <jarek> and all links from http://www.chromium.org/getting-involved/dev-channel are pointing to latest snapshots
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  37. # [00:35] <martndemus> jarek: I believe you can download seperate dev tools somewhere
  38. # [00:36] <martndemus> and then use a command line variable to use the other dev tools
  39. # [00:38] <jarek> martndemus: according to http://www.chromium.org/devtools:
  40. # [00:38] <jarek> "The DevTools operate as a client/server system, the front-end (client) and back-end (server) must match in version number and the front-end itself can be packaged inside or outside of the browser."
  41. # [00:39] * theresa_out is now known as theresaanna
  42. # [00:40] <jarek> but this page has link that I was looking for: http://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/chromium-browser-continuous/index.html
  43. # [00:41] <martndemus> :)
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  85. # [01:33] <mikenton> hello.
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  87. # [01:34] <m1d0> hi
  88. # [01:34] <mikenton> The tokenizer part of the spec says that when a new attribute is created for a tag, the attribute value is also created and set to the empty string.
  89. # [01:35] <mikenton> So does that mean that <foo bar/> and <foo bar=""/> both mean the same thing?
  90. # [01:36] <mikenton> Which is to ask, does the parser ever differentiate between a missing attribute value and an attribute set to the empty string?
  91. # [01:36] * GoOz is now known as GoOz`aw
  92. # [01:37] * GoOz`aw is now known as GoOz
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  97. # [01:43] <m1d0> is anyone here available for work? i'm looking for a guru of HTML5+canvas. we need to optimize a theatrical movie site so that it looks slicks on desktop, ipad, iphone+android
  98. # [01:43] <mikenton> wouldn't you need <video> instead of canvas?
  99. # [01:45] <m1d0> we're doing some flash-like effects with the key art
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  102. # [01:51] <m1d0> if anyone's interested, pm me :]
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  126. # [02:18] <tw2113> thatryan you's stalking me
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  129. # [02:22] <thatryan> tw2113: i just had to readd all my irc channels i somehow deleted them all fromlinkinus
  130. # [02:22] <tw2113> ah
  131. # [02:22] <tw2113> fair enough then :D
  132. # [02:23] <tw2113> dang....i am coming up on my 1 year anniversary of joining MDN....and i haven't made a single contribution
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  134. # [02:25] <BrianBlakely> tw2113: If I give you an article, will you contribute to it?
  135. # [02:26] <tw2113> i could
  136. # [02:26] <tw2113> send over as much detail as you need
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  139. # [02:31] <tw2113> one of these hours, i may eat
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  142. # [02:33] <BrianBlakely> I'm actually having trouble finding my list of MDN pages with insufficient data… you got lucky! ;P
  143. # [02:33] * theresaanna is now known as theresa_awway
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  145. # [02:34] <BrianBlakely> tw2113: There's always the anemic JavaScript glossary: https://developer.mozilla.org/En/JS/Glossary
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  147. # [02:35] * tw2113 needs to make js a stronger knowledge base in his head
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  155. # [02:50] <BrianBlakely> Later on!
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  193. # [03:59] <paul_irish> tw2113: i have some MDN stuff for you to do if you're interested
  194. # [04:00] <paul_irish> https://etherpad.mozilla.org/01OzRgvirI
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  243. # [05:12] <yaxar> can anyone help me with this error http://pastebin.com/cC0DZVTe ?
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  248. # [05:15] <yaxar> anyone on?
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  265. # [05:55] <cyclicflux> Whats good in the hood
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  276. # [06:14] <yaxar> how do i make a html box that only displays a certain amount of data?
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  280. # [06:17] <thatryan> yaxar: you mean to truncate the text?
  281. # [06:17] <yaxar> yes
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  283. # [06:17] <tw2113> thatryan to the rescue
  284. # [06:18] <thatryan> you really need php or js to do that
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  286. # [06:18] <thatryan> css you could hide the extra, but not really control it
  287. # [06:18] <yaxar> okay
  288. # [06:18] <yaxar> thanks :0
  289. # [06:18] <yaxar> :) *
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  291. # [06:20] <yaxar> how would i hide the extra with css?
  292. # [06:23] <tw2113> thatryan i have an awesome desktop right now...wanna asee?
  293. # [06:23] <tw2113> see*
  294. # [06:23] <thatryan> sure?
  295. # [06:23] <thatryan> lol
  296. # [06:23] <tw2113> desktop meaning wallpaper etc
  297. # [06:23] <thatryan> if its a naked dude im kicking your ass
  298. # [06:23] <thatryan> ;)
  299. # [06:23] <tw2113> if it's a naked dude, i'm kicking my own ass
  300. # [06:25] <tw2113> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3534225/screen.png
  301. # [06:25] <thatryan> thats pretty rad
  302. # [06:26] <tw2113> durn right
  303. # [06:27] <tw2113> gah, they still look smooshed
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  305. # [06:29] <tw2113> heh, forgot to change something. It's fixed now
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  308. # [06:32] <cashshadow> tw2113: for future reference, what is that text HUD type thing in the corner?
  309. # [06:32] <tw2113> conky
  310. # [06:32] <cashshadow> boom, thanks
  311. # [06:32] <thatryan> you on a nix box?
  312. # [06:32] <tw2113> all the time
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  314. # [06:41] <tw2113> thatryan i have zero devices in my room that start with an I
  315. # [06:42] <thatryan> poor guy
  316. # [06:42] <tw2113> that's part of why i don't
  317. # [06:42] <tw2113> but linux is good to me :D
  318. # [06:42] <thatryan> lol that sounded total dickish, oops :)
  319. # [06:43] <thatryan> im an apple nut, i wont lie :p
  320. # [06:43] <tw2113> i know, i should really be kinder to myself
  321. # [06:43] <tw2113> it happens
  322. # [06:44] <tw2113> at best, i'd consider an ipad
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  324. # [06:44] <tw2113> if i went full mbp, i'd feel obligated to use it for my dev machine, given the price
  325. # [06:45] <tw2113> and that's just rude to my current setup which does just fine
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  327. # [06:46] <tw2113> BUT thatryan....i may not be trustworthy with this early 90s teen tv show playing
  328. # [06:46] <tw2113> judgement may be impared
  329. # [06:47] <thatryan> no doubt
  330. # [06:47] <tw2113> the most famous zip code in 1992
  331. # [06:47] <thatryan> 6 hours south of me
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  341. # [07:09] <thatryan> paul_irish: you around?
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  348. # [07:20] <paul_irish> thatryan: just ask. i'm not the only one that knows things
  349. # [07:20] <paul_irish> :)
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  351. # [07:22] <thatryan> lol this is true I can assume ;)
  352. # [07:22] <thatryan> you gave me a git snippet to create a pages clone of my master, it worked, but I wanted to understand why/what it did
  353. # [07:22] <thatryan> git push -f origin master:gh-pages
  354. # [07:23] <thatryan> whats -f
  355. # [07:25] <dpogue> "force", it'll overwrite whatever was in the gh-pages branch (if it existed)
  356. # [07:26] <thatryan> and the colon between the two?
  357. # [07:27] <dpogue> push the contents of master into gh-pages
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  359. # [07:27] <thatryan> dpogue: thanks. I assumed thats what was happening but wanted to be sure i understood it :)
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  362. # [07:31] <paul_irish> dpogue: :)
  363. # [07:31] <paul_irish> triaged your issue btw
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  365. # [07:31] <paul_irish> pfeldman should route it to the engineer within the nexy day i bet
  366. # [07:31] <dpogue> awesome, thanks!
  367. # [07:31] <paul_irish> np
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  402. # [08:51] <y3di> should I be enclosing attributes in quotations? is there any convention for that?
  403. # [08:53] <tw2113> if you need attributes with spaces, quotes will be needed
  404. # [08:53] <tw2113> but i believe no-space stuff can work just fine without quotes
  405. # [08:54] <mr_lou> y3di, Yes, attribute values should be enclosed in quotations. Either " or ' Most browsers will work without them, but I think the convention is to use them.
  406. # [08:55] <tw2113> http://webdesign.about.com/od/html5tags/f/quotes-required-html-5-attributes.htm
  407. # [08:55] <y3di> thanks guys, also things like <br /> and <input ... />, do I need to have those trailing slashes? (is there any convention for it)
  408. # [08:56] <mr_lou> tw2113, Oh... so that's new in HTML5?
  409. # [08:56] <tw2113> that's what i heard
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  412. # [08:57] <mr_lou> y3di, Not needed. It was introduced afaik for another standard that never caught on. Instead, HTML5 came aong.
  413. # [08:57] <tw2113> i'm not stopping with it
  414. # [08:57] <mr_lou> *along
  415. # [08:57] <tw2113> i figure too much hassle debugging if something comes up with it
  416. # [08:57] <mr_lou> tw2113, Yea, I'm not stopping either. :-> We rebels.
  417. # [08:58] <tw2113> just tested the no quotes part
  418. # [08:58] <tw2113> when you view the source, you see this: <h1 class=test>T-rex The Pirate</h1>
  419. # [08:59] <tw2113> when i inspected it, i saw <h1 class="test">T-rex The Pirate</h1>
  420. # [08:59] <mr_lou> Easy test: Run a HTML5 validator on the page
  421. # [09:00] <tw2113> heh, i got some errors, but not related to that class test
  422. # [09:00] <tw2113> mostly stuff from my view-source dionsaur
  423. # [09:00] <tw2113> and a link to a .less file
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  425. # [09:03] <tw2113> I don't omit these parts much, but if you look at the source of http://trexthepirate.com/404.html and then inspect it, you'll find you don't NEED the html, head, body tags
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  427. # [09:03] <tw2113> and it still validates
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  476. # [10:31] <jetienne_> anybody on top of fullscreen api spec ? fullscreenchange event should be sent when i manually switch to fullscreen or not ? (as opposed as doing a fullscreenrequest())
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  566. # [13:26] <beckyisabunny> does anyone know how to stop <canvas> from being anti-alaised?
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  568. # [13:30] <beckyisabunny> i think basically i want a javascript library for an embedable c64 video buffer :P
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  612. # [14:49] <matjas> y3du, tw2113: see http://mathiasbynens.be/notes/unquoted-attribute-values for a definitive answer to that
  613. # [14:49] <matjas> mr_lou: easier test is to use http://mothereff.in/unquoted-attributes
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  719. # [18:19] <jarek> Hello
  720. # [18:20] <jarek> how Chrome Dev Tools are detecting DOM changes?
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  722. # [18:20] <jarek> are they using mutation events or some lower level C++ APIs?
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  725. # [18:21] <jarek> I can see that some requests are done from the backend using this API: http://code.google.com/chrome/devtools/docs/protocol/0.1/dom.html
  726. # [18:21] <jarek> but I have no idea what happens on the other side
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  728. # [18:22] <jarek> is there a faster way to detect DOM changes than using mutation events?
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  734. # [18:24] <niftylettuce> xonecas + paul_irish ma new setup, long time to get here! http://i.imgur.com/0Aok0.jpg (picture in picture xbox lol)
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  762. # [19:28] <shevy> hmm
  763. # [19:28] <shevy> how does an element like draggable work?
  764. # [19:28] <shevy> I am looking at: http://www.w3schools.com/html5/html5_ref_globalattributes.asp
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  766. # [19:28] <Ms2ger> Don't do that
  767. # [19:29] <Ms2ger> http://w3fools.com/
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  769. # [19:29] <martndemus> Ms2ger: bit of an overreaction
  770. # [19:29] <Ms2ger> Well, it's true
  771. # [19:30] <martndemus> w3fools may be a bad site, but it doesnt answer the question
  772. # [19:30] <Pomax> yeah, this is more of an open letter aimed at w3schools...
  773. # [19:30] <Pomax> it's hardly useful information for someone asking a question
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  775. # [19:31] <paul_irish> :)
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  778. # [19:31] <martndemus> shevy: you add the attribute draggable=true to an element and then you can drag it around :)
  779. # [19:32] <shevy> ah ok
  780. # [19:32] <martndemus> for now it's pretty useless due to bad support of browsers
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  782. # [19:33] <Pomax> on a technical note it changes an element to position:relative or position:absolute, and then fiddles with the top/left values to place it somewhere that isn't the usual spot.
  783. # [19:33] <martndemus> also shevy: http://dochub.io/ is a great site for looking up how things work :)
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  790. # [19:36] <martndemus> And this is the best guide to learn the basics html/css/javascript http://www.w3.org/community/webed/wiki/Main_Page (in my opinion)
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  812. # [19:52] <tmfircm> I would like, please, to have a child; that I may shit diarrhea upon its sleeping face, and it dies in the delicious slop of it.
  813. # [19:52] <shevy> martndemus I am like an old man who is trying to get back into learning things. I think I started to learn back in the 1999 up to 2001 era, then I did not follow the evolution of the WWW much, until HTML5 again, which kinda feels newish and confusing
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  815. # [19:58] <Pomax> a lot has been kept the same in principle. the line between "html" and "html+css+js" has become a bit more blurry these days though
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  817. # [19:58] <jarek__> why all big JS projects are keeping code in huge files?
  818. # [19:58] <jarek__> e.g.: http://code.google.com/p/fbug/source/browse/branches/firebug1.9/content/firebug/html/htmlPanel.js
  819. # [19:59] <jarek__> 2635 lines of code, is this a good practice?
  820. # [19:59] <Pomax> because some files model a single class, and that class is bloody huge
  821. # [19:59] <Pomax> Processing.js is 20000 lines, in one file. And they all pertain to a single object.
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  823. # [20:00] <Pomax> so is it good? until someone invents "import("submodule.js")" for ES, yes.
  824. # [20:00] <Pomax> is it convenient? Only if you have a good editor, really. In Notepad it'll be hell =P
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  829. # [20:10] <jarek__> Pomax: but we already have a dozen of module managers
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  831. # [20:10] <jarek__> they are hackish, but this is always better than no module manager at all
  832. # [20:11] <jarek__> when there is an object with over 100 methods inside it, doesn't this mean a poor design?
  833. # [20:13] <martndemus> not in javascript?
  834. # [20:13] <martndemus> see jquery
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  845. # [20:32] <Pomax> jarek__, that depends on what the object is?
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  847. # [20:33] <Pomax> processing.js for instance is a full parser for the Processing programming language, with support for the entire Processing API. that kind of means the objects has a million billion functions that it really should have =)
  848. # [20:34] <jarek__> Pomax: parser methods could separated into smaller groups and then combined into big object as mixins
  849. # [20:34] <Pomax> yes, you could do that, and then how do you test it without compiling it every time you change a single line?
  850. # [20:34] <jarek__> Pomax: e.g. when I was implementing CSS parser I have splitted it into parser-animations.js, parser-fontface.js, parser-declarations.js, etc.
  851. # [20:34] <jarek__> s/could/could be
  852. # [20:35] <Pomax> sure, then splitting the files up is a great idea
  853. # [20:35] <Pomax> because those are literally individual components
  854. # [20:35] <Pomax> if code is independent, keeping it all in the same file is probably not a very good idea.
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  856. # [20:38] <jarek__> how about 10 levels of nesting? Are there situations where this could be justified too? :P
  857. # [20:39] <jarek__> I remember seeing a lot of Node.js code written this way
  858. # [20:39] <jarek__> this is crazy
  859. # [20:39] <Pomax> if you have a build environment that can deal with, effectively, packages, I don't see why you wouldn't go as deep as you need to
  860. # [20:40] <Pomax> it's a very Java thing to do.
  861. # [20:40] <moshee> the latest chrome dev version is so broken :(
  862. # [20:40] <jarek__> moshee: yeah, the dev tools are unusable
  863. # [20:40] <jarek__> moshee: but you can download older snapshots from http://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/chromium-browser-continuous/index.html
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  865. # [20:42] <jarek__> Pomax: I mean 10 levels of code nesting (function inside function inside function inside). I don't see how build environment would help here
  866. # [20:42] <Pomax> ahh, that kind of nesting.
  867. # [20:43] <Pomax> yeah that's usually a sign that someone's done it wrong.
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  869. # [20:44] <Pomax> but remember that in JavaScript we get to abuse the function syntax. Because we can declare and call a function on one line, what may look like "nesting" can in fact be object creation.
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  871. # [20:45] <Pomax> var moo = (function(){ return { moo: function() {}}; }()); for instance
  872. # [20:45] <Pomax> you can stick the function keyword in there quite a few times while functionally actually just creating an object with functional objects in it.
  873. # [20:46] <Pomax> (although it's clearly not the prettiest way to go about it, and definitely hard for others to read)
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  892. # [21:42] <Pomax> this w3fools.com page becomes progressively more retarded the lower I get.
  893. # [21:42] <Pomax> it starts out with pretty well written point-counterpoints, but ends in points that are "lol wut"
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  896. # [21:42] <Pomax> pro tip: don't use "lol wut" when trying to rationally win over people
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  916. # [22:43] <paul_irish> http://www.caterwauljs.org/doc/caterwaul-by-example.pdf
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  920. # [22:47] <martndemus> that actually looks sexy
  921. # [22:47] <paul_irish> http://generic.cx/for/webkit/test.html svg clippaths!
  922. # [22:48] <shepazu> paul_irish: I'm confused… what's special about that?
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  924. # [22:49] <JonathanNeal> hi
  925. # [22:49] <JonathanNeal> paul_irish: so there is an image which is punching through where the text is?
  926. # [22:49] <paul_irish> shepazu: remember when i told you no webdevs know what svg is capable of?
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  928. # [22:50] <shepazu> has webkit not supported clippaths before?
  929. # [22:50] <JonathanNeal> in other words, the text is being used like the clipping for the image
  930. # [22:50] <shepazu> paul_irish: ahhhhhhh
  931. # [22:50] <paul_irish> shepazu: in this case, to enable clippaths you have to do a -webkit-mask to appy it
  932. # [22:50] <shepazu> oh, weird
  933. # [22:50] <paul_irish> whereas moz uses the clip-path property
  934. # [22:50] <paul_irish> and you have duplication inside the svg file
  935. # [22:51] <paul_irish> but.. you get the clipping you want. at least in webkit/gecko. the rest are partypoopers
  936. # [22:51] <shepazu> paul_irish: we need to push this forward
  937. # [22:51] <JonathanNeal> paul_irish: what is the point of "rhombuspath" ?
  938. # [22:51] <paul_irish> :) im actually gonna blog this technique right now
  939. # [22:51] <shepazu> I wonder if it's on the CSS WG's radar?
  940. # [22:51] <shepazu> paul_irish++
  941. # [22:52] <paul_irish> JonathanNeal: i dont think that element needs the ID at all
  942. # [22:52] <JonathanNeal> Well, if I haven't said it yet, that's incredible.
  943. # [22:52] <paul_irish> JonathanNeal: but its parent #rhombusclip ... is used by gecko in the clip-path style prop
  944. # [22:52] <paul_irish> just kinda funky
  945. # [22:52] <JonathanNeal> I don't understand what you need the svg for if the text is doing the work?
  946. # [22:53] <paul_irish> text aint doing no work
  947. # [22:53] <shepazu> paul_irish: you should know that in SVG 2, we plan to allow applying clippaths from arbitrary shapes, not just shapes in a <clipPath> element
  948. # [22:53] <paul_irish> good!
  949. # [22:53] <paul_irish> arbitrary shapes all the things!
  950. # [22:54] <JonathanNeal> so rhombus.svg is just some generic shape?
  951. # [22:54] <paul_irish> yup
  952. # [22:54] <paul_irish> http://generic.cx/for/webkit/rhombus.svg
  953. # [22:54] <shepazu> now, does that apply to text, say, an HTML h1 or p? not sure yet
  954. # [22:54] <shepazu> but it should
  955. # [22:54] <paul_irish> it does.
  956. # [22:54] <paul_irish> oh. svg2
  957. # [22:54] <JonathanNeal> Yea, I was looking at its source and trying to figure out what it was there for.
  958. # [22:55] <paul_irish> JonathanNeal: here are more clippaths http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/newstuff/clipPath4.svg
  959. # [22:55] <JonathanNeal> and then i saw "clippy" and was trying to put it all together.
  960. # [22:55] <shepazu> there are 2 questions: can it be applied to arbitrary content, and can the clip be aritrary content
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  963. # [22:56] <paul_irish> shepazu: you talkin about this right here?
  964. # [22:56] <martndemus> http://i.qkme.me/35gmgh.jpg
  965. # [22:56] <paul_irish> :D martndemus
  966. # [22:56] <martndemus> i love those meme generatorsss
  967. # [22:56] <JonathanNeal> well that's great.
  968. # [22:57] <JonathanNeal> it almost feels a bit beyond what i would ever know how to do, so i better keep following this.
  969. # [22:57] <shepazu> rflol
  970. # [22:59] <martndemus> btw quickmeme has an idiot proof hotlink mechanism, bit it ain't working on web devs
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  983. # [23:39] <chuck_tes> Hi
  984. # [23:41] <chuck_tes> Can someone explain to me how to link pages together. I have a simple portfolio resume website. It has 5 sections: homepage, about me, resume, portfolio, contact. I have the buttons in a vertical lsit on the left side. I know I have to do something with the anchor name, and the destination but I'm not to clear on what. Here is a snippet of code I'm talking about:
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  987. # [23:41] <chuck_tes> <li><a href="#">Home Page</a></li>
  988. # [23:42] <chuck_tes> <li><a class="current" href="#">About Me</a></li>
  989. # [23:42] <chuck_tes> <li><a href="#">Résumé</a></li>
  990. # [23:42] <chuck_tes> <li><a href="#">Portfolio</a>
  991. # [23:42] <chuck_tes> <li><a href="#">Contact</a></li>
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  993. # [23:42] <martndemus> <li><a href=index.html>
  994. # [23:42] <martndemus> <li><a href=blog.html>
  995. # [23:42] <martndemus> etc
  996. # [23:43] <chuck_tes> o00 ok im gonna try that. brb
  997. # [23:43] <martndemus> or wait
  998. # [23:43] <chuck_tes> k
  999. # [23:43] <martndemus> is everything in the same file?
  1000. # [23:43] <martndemus> page even
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  1002. # [23:44] <chuck_tes> yeah all html pages are in the same folder.
  1003. # [23:44] <martndemus> but not in one single file.html
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  1005. # [23:44] <chuck_tes> no separate pages, each titled "xxxxxxx.html" in a folder. Such as aboutme.html, resume.html, ect.
  1006. # [23:44] <martndemus> then
  1007. # [23:45] <martndemus> what i wrote above is correct
  1008. # [23:45] <martndemus> =D
  1009. # [23:45] <chuck_tes> sweet. thank you.
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  1012. # [23:49] <martndemus> np :)
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  1015. # [23:51] <chuck_tes> Yes awesome. Worked perfectly. I didn't realize "#" was some kind of placeholder. Thanks.
  1016. # [23:51] <martndemus> well actually
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  1018. # [23:52] <martndemus> a link with #foo, would immediately scroll up/down to the element with the id=foo attribute
  1019. # [23:53] <martndemus> and # does nothing, because normally isn't a id that has no name
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  1021. # [23:53] <chuck_tes> o0o0. as if the contant was all embedde don one page. Like a FAQ section right?
  1022. # [23:53] * Quits: y3di (y3di@YEDIPC.WIFI.WPI.EDU) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  1023. # [23:53] <martndemus> yeah
  1024. # [23:53] * Joins: y3di (y3di@YEDIPC.WIFI.WPI.EDU)
  1025. # [23:53] * Quits: jochen__ (jochen@nat/google/x-duauyiejhpmtctvt) (Remote host closed the connection)
  1026. # [23:53] * Joins: jochen__ (jochen@nat/google/x-xawbgtciytepyhla)
  1027. # [23:54] * Joins: _dc (~dc@c-71-237-238-221.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
  1028. # [23:55] <chuck_tes> How should I change this statement? Because if I click on the about me page, and I am already on the about me page, it doesn't make sense to load the page again right?
  1029. # [23:55] <chuck_tes> <li><a class="current" href="#">About Me</a></li>
  1030. # [23:56] <chuck_tes> or <li><a class="current" href=aboutme>About Me</a></li>
  1031. # [23:56] <martndemus> Just let them reload the page
  1032. # [23:56] <chuck_tes> oh ok.
  1033. # [23:56] <martndemus> Unless your page is a gajillion bytes big, it won't hurt anyone :)
  1034. # [23:57] * Joins: macccc (~y3di@pool-71-162-68-49.bstnma.east.verizon.net)
  1035. # [23:57] <chuck_tes> oh i see. like a heavy duty stuff.
  1036. # Session Close: Sun Dec 11 00:00:00 2011

The end :)