/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2011-12-13 / end

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# Session Start: Tue Dec 13 00:00:00 2011
# Session Ident: #html5
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# [00:08] <Pomax> I really wish Opera had a public bug tracker. If only so that I can feel like filing bugs is even worth it.
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# [00:11] <frank_salim> Pomax: did you just file a bug against opera?
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# [00:13] <frank_salim> because if you did, and if it happened to be the fresh XSLT bug the opera folks over in #whatwg were discussing, that would be a funny coincidence
# [00:13] <frank_salim> funny to me
# [00:14] <divya> frank_salim: its not against opera afaict
# [00:15] <divya> its against a spec maybe?
# [00:15] <frank_salim> divya: oh
# [00:15] <divya> who knows maybe it was against opera.
# [00:15] * divya looks at Bug tracker
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# [00:18] <Pomax> frank_salim, several.
# [00:18] <Pomax> it's not XSLT related, I just keep running into Opera's incorrect implementation of vertical align.
# [00:19] <Pomax> and the fact that I filed it several years ago, then again a few weeks ago, and now with 11.60 it's still there, just makes it seem like opera bugs are solved more on whim than on merit
# [00:19] <divya> Pomax: do you have bug numbers?
# [00:19] <divya> not really whim we dont have as many resources.
# [00:19] <divya> i can check and see the status and let you know whats up
# [00:19] <Pomax> hm, I give Velmont one a while ago... let me check the log
# [00:20] <Pomax> DSK-350314
# [00:21] <divya> so its a p3 status.
# [00:21] <Pomax> it wouldn't be so bad if Opera supported ruby, but it doesn't, so that means ruby doesn't work nor the css workaround.
# [00:21] <divya> and last updated today, but activity seen 2 years ago.
# [00:21] <Pomax> which means Japanese furigana just plain doesn't work in Opera.
# [00:22] <divya> okay I will try to make this P1 Pomax
# [00:22] <Pomax> 2 years ago? O-o
# [00:22] <Pomax> I filed it only a few weeks ago...
# [00:22] <divya> oh yours was a dup of this bug
# [00:22] <Pomax> although the original was years ago, so if it got merged that'd make sense
# [00:23] <Pomax> thanks for changing the priority, hopefully someone has time to look at whats going on and fix it for the next release.
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# [00:23] <divya> Pomax: i cant assure you of change in priority but I can try :)
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# [00:24] <divya> i will let you know here if I receive any update.
# [00:24] <Pomax> I'll also be filing another today about opera's font fallback selection, but there might already be one.
# [00:24] <divya> Pomax: fill it and gimme ID.
# [00:24] <divya> it might just be there.
# [00:24] <Pomax> can do
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# [00:29] <JonathanNeal> heyo
# [00:30] <KKendle> hey
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# [00:39] <frank_salim> JonathanNeal: hello
# [00:39] <Pomax> divya, DSK-353131
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# [00:45] <divya> thanks Pomax i have notified the relevant people.
# [00:45] <divya> it might just be a dup
# [00:45] <divya> in which case it should be fixed pretty soon. we just did a bunch of font-fam fixes
# [00:48] <JonathanNeal> what's new?
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# [00:57] <kevindougans> good night my fellow html5'rs, sleep tight and don't let the IE bugs bite
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# [00:58] <Pomax> curious, does anyone who works or worked on IE hang out here?
# [00:58] <divya> not that I know but you could contact @sgalineau on twitters
# [01:00] <Pomax> heh, doesn't seem quite important enough a question to bug someone on twitter for.
# [01:01] <Pomax> ugh, finally. global css macros fixed. that was a ton of silly mistakes.
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# [01:03] <Pomax> JonathanNeal, you might be interested to know https://github.com/Pomax/CSSmacros now does global macros too. Or not, but I'm telling you anyway =)
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# [01:05] <KKendle> can you guys help with a @font-face issue? (or me being stupid issue…)
# [01:05] <Pomax> what's it doing and/or not doing?
# [01:06] <KKendle> I'm trying to use a different font, at this point any font will do, but it won't display
# [01:06] <KKendle> I grabbed Paul Irish's snippet of code and stuck my stuff in there and tried doing a couple other things with it but no luck
# [01:07] <KKendle> what do you need to view to help me?
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# [01:10] <Pomax> if you have a working URL, that helps
# [01:10] <Pomax> if not, jsfiddle.net is our good friend.
# [01:11] <Pomax> (great for pasting a reduced, but html+css+js, example)
# [01:12] <KKendle> http://pastebin.com/daUp9Phn here is the @font-face code i am using.
# [01:12] <Pomax> silly question, but always important: does dev tools/firebug/dragonfly/etc mention anything about 404s?
# [01:13] <Pomax> (case sensitivity in the filename or something could mess things up)
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# [01:13] <KKendle> Mmm.. not sure?
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# [01:15] <divya> Pomax: it would be in the resources section for DFL
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# [01:17] <Pomax> KKendle, do you have a live url somewhere that you're trying this?
# [01:17] <Pomax> (even if it's just a temp page)
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# [01:19] <KKendle> yeah http://loveandfaithministryojc.org/
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# [01:20] <Pomax> have a live url somewhere that you're trying this?
# [01:20] <Pomax> <Pomax> (even if it's
# [01:20] <Pomax> ... no, bad clipboard
# [01:21] <Pomax> Failed to load resource: the server responded with a status of 404 (Not Found)
# [01:21] <KKendle> lol
# [01:21] <Pomax> neither the .woff, .ttf nor .svg can be found
# [01:21] <Pomax> did you remember to upload them?
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# [01:21] <KKendle> pretty sure, lemme double check though
# [01:22] <KKendle> ok I re-uploaded stuff
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# [01:23] <Pomax> still getting some 404s though
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# [01:23] <Pomax> GET http://loveandfaithministryojc.org/aurulentsansmono-regular-webfont.woff 404 (Not Found)
# [01:23] <Pomax> they load for the basic CSS, but you seem to also be AJAX getting them?
# [01:24] <KKendle> I don't believe I am using AJAX. Not that I am aware of at least ha
# [01:25] <Pomax> can you verify that http://loveandfaithministryojc.org/aurulentsansmono-regular-webfont.svg exists?
# [01:25] <Pomax> because as a normal page request that generates a 404, too
# [01:25] <Pomax> (did you put them in a special directory?)
# [01:26] <KKendle> they are in 'fonts' directory
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# [01:26] <KKendle> oh i didn't add that
# [01:26] <KKendle> lemme do that real quick… ha
# [01:26] <Pomax> that might help =)
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# [01:27] <KKendle> ah yeah that was it...
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# [01:27] <KKendle> which by the way that is a strange looking font for the website..
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# [01:30] <Pomax> that's a design aspect you get to work with. if the fonts now load, you can pick whichever ones look best.
# [01:30] <KKendle> Yup. Thanks for the help. Silly error
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# [01:33] <KKendle> Pomax: Where did you look to see if it was getting the '404'?
# [01:35] <Pomax> I was looking at the error output in Chrome's dev tools, although the same errors will show in Firefox's firebug, and Opera's dragonfly. The hotkeys vary, but right clicking somewhere on a page and picking "inspect element" generally pops it up for all of these browsers.
# [01:35] <Pomax> (for IE, it's F12)
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# [01:37] <KKendle> Ok. Thanks Pomax
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# [01:39] <Pomax> np
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# [01:43] <JonathanNeal> Pomax: that does interest me.l
# [01:44] <JonathanNeal> Pomax: which browsers do you test?
# [01:44] <Pomax> chrome, firefox, IE9, opera and safari
# [01:45] <JonathanNeal> Sweet.
# [01:45] <Pomax> if it doesn't work in one of those, I swear a lot and then make it work anyway
# [01:45] <JonathanNeal> Which Firefox, which Safari?
# [01:46] <Pomax> current, so right now that's 8.0 and 5.1?
# [01:46] <Pomax> unless they updated overnight of course
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# [01:47] <Pomax> 8.0.1 and 5.1.1 respectively atm
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# [05:10] <tw2113> thatryan pirates > ninjas
# [05:10] <thatryan> if you say so ;)
# [05:12] <tw2113> that i do
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# [05:32] <gavin_huang> I'm not sure if did anything wrong, but the non-block js code everybody addvocates blocks opera in my test, both the stable version and opera next. you can see the test here: http://jsfiddle.net/gravof/WseTt/
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# [05:36] <ianawilson> hi everyone. I have a problem with CORS and getImageData.
# [05:36] <ianawilson> I'm working on a Facebook app, and I need to be able to compute a color histogram for a bunch of photos from their cdn, and the library I'm using requires the canvas's getImageData.
# [05:37] <ianawilson> I get a security exception from the browser, not allowing me to continue. So I switched to using a jQuery plugin $.getImageData that sends the image off to a PHP script where it's converted to base64.
# [05:38] <ianawilson> This works, but is unreliable, because it will process an arbitrary number of photos and then time out. No idea why, and nothing I do seems to fix it.
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# [05:38] <ianawilson> Are there any other ways to deal with this issue? The only thing I really need is a color histogram, and if there is another way to computer color / pixel data, I'm all ears.
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# [05:54] <Pomax> you could make PHP just grab the image directly and re-serve it as is it's local origin
# [05:54] <ianawilson> i was just thinking about that
# [05:54] <Pomax> send a header() for image mimetype, then print file(uri)
# [05:54] <ianawilson> ok, so i know almost nothing about php
# [05:55] <ianawilson> can you either give me a quick overview of what i'll be doing or point me in the direction of a place to start learning about it
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# [06:08] <gavin_huang> added a little introduction and included a flow chart snapshot: http://jsfiddle.net/gravof/WseTt/3/
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# [06:09] <ianawilson> Pomax: looking into things and not sure how to re-serve it without it being a local file. Any suggestions?
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# [06:23] <dr0id> in FF, I get this error when using replaceState - "Error: Component returned failure code: 0x80004005 (NS_ERROR_FAILURE) [nsIDOMHistory.replaceState]" any way to fix this ?
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# [09:10] <kevindougans> mornin
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# [09:14] <dr0id> suggest me a nice jquery file upload plugin
# [09:15] <aQustic> we've used this at work https://github.com/blueimp/jQuery-File-Upload
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# [09:19] <kevindougans> we should get a bot in here to collect all the links… would make an interesting directory for sure
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# [09:23] <OzDave_imac> regular expression the log to get started ;)?
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# [09:30] <kevindougans> is the log public?
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# [10:29] <kevindougans> considering all the anti spam, captcha, validating fields, etc - whats the best contact form going about at the minute? i can make one in php but would prefer jquery/ajax for validation etc
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# [10:32] <moo-_-> kevindougans: I would simply add a hidden field which is filled in with a static value by Javascript
# [10:33] <moo-_-> kevindougans: as most automatic form submission bots are simply HTML crawlers
# [10:33] <moo-_-> and ignore CSS/Javascript
# [10:33] <moo-_-> kevindougans: here is the idea http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/nospamnx/
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# [10:34] <kevindougans> looking now :)
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# [10:45] <kevindougans> moo-_-: thats a fantastic idea it proposes
# [10:45] <kevindougans> i've always hated captchas
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# [10:45] <moo-_-> kevindougans: it does not propose but implements :)
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# [10:46] <moo-_-> however seems to be broken with the latest wordpresses
# [10:46] <kevindougans> i don't use wordpress
# [10:46] <kevindougans> so will be taking the theory from it
# [10:47] <kevindougans> and implementing it myself
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# [11:08] <duf> hello there. I encountered a strange problem: I'm using Droid Sans with german umlauts and on Mac, everything looks fine. On Windows however, the dots above the uppercase letters (ÄÖÜ) are cut off for no apparent reason on certain font sizes. Lower or higher font sizes still lead to partially cut off dots. Does anyone have any idea on how to fix that problem? Here's my fontface definition: http://pastie.org/private/nzcvkymbzjhkot72bh
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# [11:09] <moo-_-> duf: which browser?
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# [11:12] <duf> moo-_-: all major browsers on Windows have this problem and it's working in all major browsers on OSX
# [11:12] <grantg> my god... I need to stop manually inlining js
# [11:12] <moo-_-> duf: sounds like windows font engine issue then
# [11:12] <michaelrt> yes you do
# [11:12] <grantg> It's making me think of writing a shell script to do this for me...
# [11:12] <moo-_-> duf: I suspect there is little you can do
# [11:12] <moo-_-> duf: except generally curse to the direction of Redmond
# [11:12] <duf> I know this sounds like a ClearType rendering problem but there must be some solution to this - Google doesn't exactly contain any mentions of this kind of problem
# [11:12] <michaelrt> change font?
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# [11:13] <moo-_-> always bet on Arial
# [11:13] <duf> michaelrt: that's not really a solution to that problem...
# [11:13] * grantg is knee deep again debugging Donkey Kong Country trying to debug IRQ assert delays and clock cycle timings for some scanline effects. :/
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# [11:14] <grantg> also, trying to see if cascading mode asserts along with specific IRQ bit mask combos are causing irregularities. :/
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# [11:15] <duf> moo-_-: Arial is boring as f*** though :P
# [11:15] <grantg> damn GBC/SNES edge cases
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# [11:17] <duf> oh wait... i forgot to test IE9 on windows and it works there. So a general Windows problem doesn't seem to be the issue here... any more ideas, guys?
# [11:18] <duf> Opera, Chrome and FF fail though
# [11:18] <JakeA> Are you getting the same issue in the latest version of Firefox?
# [11:18] <JakeA> Firefox & IE9 use the same text renderer
# [11:19] <duf> Well, on my Windows test machine I currently have FF up to v5 and it fails there.
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# [11:19] <JakeA> Latest Firefox is 8
# [11:20] <duf> I know
# [11:20] <JakeA> It'll narrow the problem down if you test
# [11:20] <JakeA> narrows it down to the text renderer rather than browser
# [11:20] <duf> gimme a sec
# [11:21] <simenbrekken> Any tricks to work around the CSS "repaint" issue when doing transitions? E.g I have object A I want to first move to left: 100px and then animate to left: 200px I can't chain two $.css() calls without the latter overriding my starting defaults.
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# [11:25] <duf> JakeA: Same proplem in Fx 8.0.1 on Windows
# [11:27] <duf> The only browser displaying it correctly is IE9
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# [11:28] <JakeA> interesting. That suggests it isn't a difference between Directwrite & GDI
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# [11:31] <duf> JakeA: Any idea?
# [11:32] <JakeA> Tried running the font file through font squirrel?
# [11:32] <simenbrekken> duf: you on webkit?
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# [11:33] <duf> JakeA: Nope, I directly downloaded it from Google Webfonts
# [11:33] <simenbrekken> duf: I've had some similar line height problems on PC, my solution was just using modernizr selectors and line-height + padding
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# [11:34] <duf> simenbrekken: I'm trying to reconstruct the problem in a separate file since I cannot publish the original - maybe it's just a line-height probklem
# [11:34] <duf> problem*
# [11:35] <simenbrekken> In my experience the foundries themselves create the WOFF/whatever files and are quite terrible at it. Using both TypeKit and MyFonts local fonts in my current project I already need workarounds for funky hinting/line-height for like half of them :P
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# [11:39] <kevindougans> waiting desperately on my new mac arriving, postman is a day late already
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# [11:47] <kevindougans> whats the best resource for help styling forms? most google results are a few years old, i'm sure theres some new up to date one out there just now
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# [12:55] <Jahan> How can I use css inline to centrally align a link without using <p>?
# [12:56] <Jahan> In my footer I'd like the copyright info to the left and then on the same line have a link that is centrally aligned.
# [12:56] <kevindougans> i'd put it in 2 divs
# [12:56] <kevindougans> then float one left
# [12:56] <kevindougans> and float the other right
# [12:58] <Jahan> Yes that's a solution but it seems ott
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# [13:01] <kevindougans> yeh i used to think the same, just kind of got used to it now
# [13:01] <kevindougans> if ou come up with a better method let me know :)
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# [13:15] <Trisox> text-align:center;?
# [13:21] <aQustic> <footer style="position:relative; text-align:center"><span style="position:absolute; left:0">Copyright</span> <a href="#">Link goes here</a></footer> .. could work?
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# [13:27] <Jahan> that might work aQuatic, thank you
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# [13:41] <Trisox> thats logical :P
# [13:41] <aQustic> :)
# [13:42] <Jahan> it works thank you. I have text-align: center in ext .css
# [13:42] <aQustic> nice :)
# [13:42] <kevindougans> i've tried with span… must have got my position: wrong
# [13:43] <kevindougans> i really need to brush up on my css, been learning from to many examples and some of the basics still stump me from time to time
# [13:44] <Trisox> position is key ;)
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# [13:44] <kevindougans> so my mrs keeps telling me
# [13:44] <kevindougans> should start listening!
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# [13:44] <Trisox> yup position and angle is important :D
# [13:44] <Jahan> I tried your method too kevindouglas, it should work, maybe I did it wrong but it still pushed it to a new <p>
# [13:44] <Trisox> gegege
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# [13:45] <Jahan> i think I needed to clear the float first but I have it finally working now so no worries
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# [13:55] <Velmont> Pomax: Yes, I was following and had updated the vertical-align bug and linked it up. And saw that divya and a few others was also into the bug today. I have mentioned it to some layout guys as well, one seemed interested in it.
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# [13:59] <duf> JakeA, simenbrekken: I managed to reproduce the problem on a isolated page. It would be great if you could have a look at what's wrong here: http://duf-online.de/development/font-test/
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# [14:01] <simenbrekken> duf: I'll take a look if I have time, sort of have a release tomorrow :)sorry I have a release tomorrow and I'm
# [14:01] <simenbrekken> swamped.
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# [14:10] <duf> simenbrekken: Ok, no worries. I'm grateful for any advice I can get on this topic since I'm stumped. One more day won't make it much worse ;)
# [14:10] <simenbrekken> duf: try going bananas with line-height and padding
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# [14:18] <ryan_tait> morning everyone
# [14:20] <Velmont> 'day ;]
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# [14:21] <dr0id> 'dat ;]
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# [15:09] <ippa> anyone with IE7 installed that browse http://ippa.se/test.html to see if the yellow asterisk is showing?
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# [15:10] <ryan_tait> yup one sec
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# [15:11] <ippa> working on a base64 image encoder, http://ippa.se/base64-image-encoder/, and I had a "IE7 compatiblity" mode where I use the *css-property hack
# [15:12] <ryan_tait> ippa: i do not see a yellow asterisk
# [15:12] <ippa> bleh :\
# [15:12] <ippa> *background: url(/images/asterisk_yellow.png) no-repeat;
# [15:12] <ippa> http://ippa.se/images/asterisk_yellow.png <-- is what should be showing
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# [15:13] <Velmont> ippa: http://netrenderer.com/
# [15:14] <ippa> Velmont: nice tip
# [15:15] <ippa> indeed, IE7 isn't showing anything
# [15:16] <ryan_tait> i see the text and a blue square
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# [15:17] <ippa> mm... it's this CSS that doesn't work: *background: url(/images/asterisk_yellow.png) no-repeat;
# [15:17] <ippa> though *background seems like a classic IE7-css-hack when googling
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# [15:22] <ryan_tait> it doesnt show as asterisk_yellow on ie7
# [15:22] <ryan_tait> its a very long base64 string
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# [15:26] <ippa> mm.. seems like the background: url(data:image/png;base6...) just after the *background borks it up
# [15:26] <ippa> if I comment that out the *hack works
# [15:29] <ryan_tait> maybe this will help? http://venodesigns.net/2010/06/17/you-got-your-base64-in-my-css/
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# [15:34] <ippa> mhtml in css, the uberhack to trump them all :)
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# [15:34] <ippa> so uggly, but it works ...
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# [15:35] <ippa> too bad it includes the full base64 line twice
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# [15:47] <ryan_tait> ippa: see the yellow asterisk now in ie :)
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# [15:48] <ippa> mm.. found a hack that seems to work
# [15:49] <ippa> *:first-child+html .asterisk_yellow { ..only for ie7 .. }
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# [15:50] <beckyisabunny> can you add data-association to a link tag?
# [15:51] <beckyisabunny> turns out yes n.n;
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# [16:46] <martndemus> does Modernizr detect the if the browser will render a datepicker ui for <input type=date> ? (cc @ paul_irish_ )
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# [16:51] <drublic_> martndemus: it detects 'inputtypes' check http://modernizr.github.com/Modernizr/test/
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# [16:52] <martndemus> that means, it only detects if the browser supports the validation? not the ui elements?
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# [16:54] <JonathanNeal> hi
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# [16:54] <martndemus> o/
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# [16:56] <dr0id> \o
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# [17:00] <Conexion> You know something... The CSS outline property should be able to handle negative values
# [17:01] <Conexion> That would make it incredibly more useful
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# [17:02] <Conexion> Or border, I'll take either one :p
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# [17:07] <ryan_tait> martndemus: more info if ya need http://www.modernizr.com/docs/ search for "Input Types"
# [17:07] <ryan_tait> thought copy pasting the whole paragraph might be too much
# [17:07] <ryan_tait> :)
# [17:08] <ryan_tait> " Modernizr cannot detect that date inputs create a datepicker..."
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# [17:11] <martndemus> :(
# [17:11] <martndemus> would be awesome if I could ditch jquery datepicker for native
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# [17:41] <geestring> How do you think this http://gardengnomesoftware.com/samples/pano2vr_3/mozart/ was done? Is it just a cube with the panorama image at a texture?
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# [17:45] <moo-_-> geestring: I'd say it's "sky box" technique from 3D
# [17:45] <moo-_-> nothing fancy there
# [17:45] <moo-_-> get three.js and you can throw in your own with 15 lines of code
# [17:45] <geestring> haha cool. I'm not familiar with the sky box technique?
# [17:46] <moo-_-> geestring: three.js has plenty of demos doing it
# [17:46] <moo-_-> and wikipedia may explain how it works
# [17:46] <moo-_-> I can't ^_^b
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# [17:47] <martndemus> \o/ chrome 16
# [17:47] <geestring> ok thanks. I'll take a look.
# [17:47] <moo-_-> martndemus: linkz or didn't happen
# [17:48] <martndemus> http://googlechromereleases.blogspot.com/2011/12/stable-channel-update.html?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=twitter&utm_term=google+chrome+releases+dev
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# [17:52] <geestring> if I do make a 3d style virtual tour using webgl, do you think I'm shooting myself in the foot limiting the users to certain browsers?
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# [18:02] <martndemus> SOOOOO TextMate2
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# [18:16] <ryan_tait> speaking of textmate... im just reading the link divya posted on twitter
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# [18:46] <digitalfiz> hey guys does anyone know of a implementation of ace or bespin that can be run as like a normal page with a textarea thats syntax highlighted as you edit the code
# [18:46] <bot-t> (4 hours 39 mins ago) <dr0id> tell digitalfiz cool connection bro
# [18:46] <digitalfiz> hmm
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# [18:46] <moo-_-> digitalfiz: ace exactly does it
# [18:46] <digitalfiz> bot-t tell druid sorry bro
# [18:46] <moo-_-> what's the issue?
# [18:46] <moo-_-> try asking #ace
# [18:46] <digitalfiz> well it requires you run a js server all that stuff
# [18:47] <digitalfiz> i just have a text area with some sql i want to color as they are editing it without running any extra server side stuff
# [18:47] <moo-_-> it does not
# [18:47] <moo-_-> digitalfiz: you have been misinformed
# [18:47] <moo-_-> please read ace documentation
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# [19:25] <jiffe98> so how does everyone writing websocket backends deal with the constant changing specs ?
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# [19:40] <moo-_-> jiffe98: websockets post a version header
# [19:41] <moo-_-> on request
# [19:41] <moo-_-> that's how
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# [21:17] <martndemus> Is it ok to assume that web developpers use up to date browsers and have JavaScript turned on? =D
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# [21:19] <thatryan> man i would hope so ;)
# [21:22] <tw2113> i say do it anyway
# [21:22] <tw2113> apparently more people browse on mobile than IE6-7 combined
# [21:22] <ryan_tait> netscape navigator ftw
# [21:23] <martndemus> https://github.com/martndemus/Feed-The-Web-Dev/blob/master/README.md
# [21:23] <martndemus> read that
# [21:23] <martndemus> would the specifications be agreeable?
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# [21:28] <karega|aniasis> does anyone know any good design examples of horizontal accordions
# [21:28] <Cancel> martndemus: that's a safe assumption
# [21:28] <Cancel> heck even mobile phones have js turned on
# [21:29] <martndemus> I'm pretty sure it is :) Just wanted to check with other peoples their opinions
# [21:31] <martndemus> I would even go as far and sau it would be wrong to support old browsers in this kind of a project
# [21:31] <Cancel> even texted based browsers like lynx have it on i'm sure
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# [21:31] <martndemus> I couldn't even care less about lynx :p
# [21:31] <Cancel> depends on the project if it's corporate type deal and they are all using ie6 for some stupid reason.....
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# [21:31] <Cancel> all depneds on the project I'd say
# [21:31] <martndemus> This project targets web-devs
# [21:32] <martndemus> Especially: web devs on the cutting edge of web-development
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# [21:33] <martndemus> in other news: Chrome 18 can haz CSS filters
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# [21:48] <jarek> Hi
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# [21:48] <jarek> Firebug and Chrome Dev tools have a feature that allows for editing elements by clicking on them in inspector view
# [21:48] <jarek> do you ever use this feature?
# [21:49] <martndemus> yes
# [21:49] <jarek> I've been using dev tools for like 3 years and I never used them
# [21:49] <jarek> martndemus: in what scenario?
# [21:49] <martndemus> changing an attribute
# [21:49] <martndemus> quickly add a class
# [21:49] <jarek> martndemus: why not edit the HTML files directly? the changes will be gone after refresh
# [21:49] <martndemus> change the text
# [21:50] <martndemus> so i don't have to go back to my text editor, change it
# [21:50] <martndemus> and then save
# [21:50] <martndemus> and hit refresh
# [21:50] <jarek> ok, so it's useful for testing
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# [21:50] <martndemus> yes
# [21:50] <martndemus> for quick testing things
# [21:51] <jarek> martndemus: do you ever use it to test whether some styles will apply?
# [21:52] <jarek> I have feeling that it would be more intuitive if double clicking on node in inspector would expand/collapse the node instead of editing it
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# [21:52] <jarek> 99% of time when I click on node I want to expand it, not edit it
# [21:53] <martndemus> suxx to be you ;)
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# [21:56] <jarek> this is how it works in new Firefox dev tools
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# [21:57] <jarek> but it has other awkwardness :/
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# [21:58] <jarek> one more important questions
# [21:58] <martndemus> ask away
# [21:58] <jarek> do you *ever* use the breadcrumb trail?
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# [21:58] <martndemus> NO! =D
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# [21:58] <martndemus> well actualy
# [21:59] <jarek> I knew it, it's useless
# [21:59] <martndemus> not in debugging
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# [21:59] <martndemus> i do use it in exploring other cool sites
# [21:59] <martndemus> but not that often
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# [22:00] <jarek> martndemus: so when you want to inspect parent of currently selected element then you are clicking the parent in inspector view, you never click the parent in breadcrumb trail?
# [22:01] <martndemus> I sometimes check the whole breadcrumb trail to quickly eyeball what the parents are
# [22:01] <martndemus> nothing else
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# [23:56] <chuck_tes> does anyone know where I can find Prototype 1.7+ already compiled. Im sorry, but I don't know how to complile it.
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# [23:56] <moo-_-> chuck_tes: this is not Prototype support channel. I suggest you ask your question on approriate forum where the audience may know the answer.
# [23:58] <chuck_tes> ok
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# Session Close: Wed Dec 14 00:00:00 2011

The end :)