/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2012-01-05 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Jan 05 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
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  8. # [00:08] <dwarder> i've found out that my friend has pro html5 development but 1st edition, is that so outdated?
  9. # [00:08] <dwarder> and i should buy second edition?
  10. # [00:08] <dwarder> programming*
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  21. # [00:18] <franksalim> dwarder: we added two chapters to the second edition and made changes and additions throughout
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  23. # [00:20] <dwarder> so i guess 1st edition is still ok? i'm happy to realise that authors of the book are here :) thank you
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  29. # [00:31] <franksalim> dwarder: no problem! there are a couple of things in the 1st edition that are outdated. i think it is still _mostly_ fine. of course, i think the 2nd edition is better :)
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  110. # [03:02] <root66> http://hookerbots.com/npc/html5.html <- chrome uses 5% of my cpu to do this. firefox uses 14%. :P
  111. # [03:02] <root66> weak
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  114. # [03:04] <franksalim> root66: do they do a comparable number of think() calls per second?
  115. # [03:04] <franksalim> how much of that time is spent drawing?
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  117. # [03:05] <franksalim> also, that looks pretty
  118. # [03:06] <root66> yeah haha first I forgot to clear, then I fixed that. then when I went to assign random colors I accidentally did it inside the loop, so I just commented out the clear and that was the result
  119. # [03:07] <root66> but to answer your question, it actually does LESS thinks in firefox and uses MORE cpu :/
  120. # [03:08] * paul_irish_ is now known as paul_irish
  121. # [03:08] <root66> I had it at 10ms and chrome used about 15% to firefox's 35-40%. I decided that was unacceptable and increased the delay to 50ms to get a more comparable speed
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  123. # [03:08] <root66> 100fps is pretty unreasonable, but I wanted to test
  124. # [03:09] <root66> 20fps, where I have it now, is comparable to where flash starts having problems too
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  183. # [05:39] <ileveled> Html5 is awesome.
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  186. # [05:56] <tw2113> +1
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  377. # [12:41] <faqfaqfaq> Is it possible to work with webstorage from inside a webworker ?
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  468. # [15:21] <danielfilho> faqfaqfaq: it depends on what you want. Take a look at this — http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/workers/basics/
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  481. # [15:31] <devmikey> Is html 4.01 strict talk allowed in here?
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  507. # [15:51] <devmikey> Is this channel dead?
  508. # [15:52] <devmikey> Can I say *anything* on this channel?
  509. # [15:52] <devmikey> Anything I want?
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  513. # [15:55] <devmikey> Aaaaaawwwwweeeeeeeeeeaaaaawwwwweeaaaaw
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  530. # [16:19] <Jon47> I am writing some script-generated javascript in my templates, it sucks but whatever, it's for click-tracking and I just want to get it done
  531. # [16:20] <Jon47> i have the option of putting the javascript in the "onclick" attribute or in an inline script block above it
  532. # [16:20] <Jon47> is there any compelling reason to use one over the other?
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  536. # [16:27] <devmikey> Can you not include the script in the header?
  537. # [16:27] <Ms2ger> Jon47, the inline <script> is safer
  538. # [16:28] <Ms2ger> Though an external script would probably be better, if you can do that
  539. # [16:28] <Jon47> devmikey, I could but i'm a new guy working with legacy code, trying not to change it too much at the moment
  540. # [16:29] <Jon47> Ms2ger, is it safer in a real life situation, or are you talking about hedging my bets for extremely unlikely browsers?
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  542. # [16:29] <Ms2ger> Safer in real life
  543. # [16:29] <Jon47> can you explain why?
  544. # [16:30] <Ms2ger> In the on* attribute, you can access properties on the document without 'document.'
  545. # [16:30] <Ms2ger> Like <button onclick="getElementById('foo')">
  546. # [16:31] <Jon47> ok..
  547. # [16:31] <Ms2ger> And if one of the variable names you use clashes with a newly introduced property on the document, there's trouble
  548. # [16:31] <Ms2ger> (Yeah, it's stupid)
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  551. # [16:32] <Ms2ger> https://developer.mozilla.org/Writing_Forward_Compatible_Websites#Prefix_all_global_variable_access_in_onfoo_attributes_with_.E2.80.9Cwindow..E2.80.9D
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  553. # [16:33] <Jon47> I can see that creating a real headache, but I'm not even writing variable names, just calling a function with a few string or int parameters
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  555. # [16:33] <Jon47> i might just use onfoo in this case
  556. # [16:33] <Jon47> thank you for the info!
  557. # [16:33] <Ms2ger> Np
  558. # [16:35] <faqfaqfaq> is it just me or css3 transitions are really slow on mobile devices ? (I'm using opera mobile)
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  560. # [16:35] <divya> it likely will be.
  561. # [16:36] <devmikey> Is html 4.01 strict talk allowed in here?
  562. # [16:36] * Parts: johnoxton (~johnoxton@nat/canonical/x-magzmgnigxiposit)
  563. # [16:37] <divya> devmikey: why would you want to do that.
  564. # [16:37] <devmikey> Because it's *awesome*
  565. # [16:38] <Ms2ger> Also, rather dry science fiction
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  568. # [16:40] <devmikey> divya: html 4.01 is still ok
  569. # [16:40] <devmikey> IMO
  570. # [16:40] <devmikey> XHtml is not
  571. # [16:40] <divya> hahaha Ms2ger :D
  572. # [16:41] <divya> devmikey: orly
  573. # [16:41] <devmikey> yrly
  574. # [16:41] <devmikey> U will be punished
  575. # [16:41] <emailshwetank> xhtml, html, whatever its all good to talk here IMO
  576. # [16:42] <Ms2ger> devmikey, do what you want, as long as you don't expect browsers to implement HTML4
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  578. # [16:43] <devmikey> emailshwetank: sweet
  579. # [16:44] <devmikey> Ms2ger: orly. do they impletment html5?
  580. # [16:44] <Ms2ger> Yeah
  581. # [16:44] <Ms2ger> More of HTML5 than of HTML4
  582. # [16:44] <Ms2ger> (Because HTML5 defines what browsers already did)
  583. # [16:44] <devmikey> Arent they laregley the same anyway?
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  585. # [16:45] <Ms2ger> Sure
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  587. # [16:45] <devmikey> sweet
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  658. # [18:29] <benfrancis> In JavaScript Is there a way to fetch a binary file (say an image file) and then use that file as a Blob or File object?
  659. # [18:31] <danielfilho> benfrancis: I'm not sure if this is what you want, but check this out: https://github.com/ebidel/filer.js/tree/
  660. # [18:32] <danielfilho> Also this: http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/file/filesystem/ and this http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/file/dndfiles/
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  664. # [18:35] <benfrancis> danielfilho|out: Thanks, but I meant fetching remote files, not local ones
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  674. # [18:39] <devmikey> if I knew how, I'm not sure I'd tell you
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  676. # [18:40] <benfrancis> I think I need the blob response for XHR http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/file/xhr2/#toc-reponseTypeBlob
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  729. # [19:34] <Mad_Gouki> hi
  730. # [19:35] <Mad_Gouki> quick question about sessions. If I use sessionStorage to store the session id, is there a security issue that cookies would not have?
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  732. # [19:38] <Conexion> Well, what are you trying to do?
  733. # [19:39] <Mad_Gouki> Have a user log in and store their session id clientside
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  736. # [19:40] <Conexion> Is there a particular reason why you'd want to use sessionStorage beyond just wanting to use it?
  737. # [19:40] <Mad_Gouki> is it more secure than cookies?
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  742. # [19:42] <Conexion> As far as I understand, you would need to validate that the session ID hasn't been tampered with using sessionStorage. Client/server cookies automatically do this
  743. # [19:42] <Mad_Gouki> alright
  744. # [19:42] <Conexion> That said, you still didn't answer why you want to use sessionStorage instead
  745. # [19:42] <Mad_Gouki> because it's in html5 and for storing stuff, it would allow multiple logins in different tabs.
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  748. # [19:43] <Mad_Gouki> so instead of having bugs related to multiple tabs, each tab would be a separate session.
  749. # [19:43] <Conexion> If you're willing to write your own validation, then that would be a good way to do that
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  752. # [19:43] <Mad_Gouki> I really don't want to roll my own anything, I don't trust in my ability to do that.
  753. # [19:43] <Mad_Gouki> I'll look into the validation, thanks
  754. # [19:43] <Conexion> But honestly, you should be validating no matter what technology you're using ;)
  755. # [19:44] <devmikey> So I have to validate that the Session ID I get from $_SESSION is ok?
  756. # [19:45] <Conexion> Well, just that they match
  757. # [19:45] <Mad_Gouki> oh, well that doesn't sound hard
  758. # [19:45] <ghinda> anybody familiar with JavascriptMVC?
  759. # [19:45] <devmikey> Match what?
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  762. # [19:46] <devmikey> ghinda: noone is. absolutely no one
  763. # [19:46] <Mad_Gouki> devmikey: you check that the session ID being sent is a valid one, also maybe check that the request is coming from where you expect it to (maybe store the requester IP or something and verify that it is the same or kill the session and make them log back in)
  764. # [19:47] <Conexion> I am not familiar ghinda. And Mad_Gouki beat me to it
  765. # [19:47] <devmikey> IP's can change across sessions
  766. # [19:47] <Mad_Gouki> well, that's whay I said 'also maybe'
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  768. # [19:47] <ghinda> devmikey: everybody seems to hate it
  769. # [19:47] <devmikey> ghinda: I hate the sound of it
  770. # [19:48] <devmikey> Mad_Gouki: Arent session id's either numbers or hashes?
  771. # [19:48] <ghinda> devmikey: I hate the sound of it too, but I have to use it..
  772. # [19:48] <Mad_Gouki> isn't there a JS mvc called backbone.js? dunno if it's any good.
  773. # [19:48] <Mad_Gouki> devmikey: I'm not sure... I imagine you'd want to use a hash of some sort to avoid collisions.
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  775. # [19:49] <Mad_Gouki> if you start to get into hash value collisions, though, you're probably better off using someone else's implementation, imho
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  784. # [19:54] <mantas322> Back
  785. # [19:54] <mantas322> Hi dudes
  786. # [19:55] <mantas322> so im making a dynamic cache manifest file, just thought u all should know
  787. # [19:55] <Conexion> Noted
  788. # [19:56] <Mad_Gouki> someone will eventually rewrite the session management stuff to use sessionStorage... just not me :P
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  790. # [19:56] <mantas322> :O
  791. # [19:56] <mantas322> is this true?
  792. # [19:56] <Mad_Gouki> it's a prediction I just made
  793. # [19:57] <mantas322> cause that was my next thing that i was going to think about
  794. # [19:57] <Mad_Gouki> lol
  795. # [19:57] <mantas322> but for now I just need to generate it dynamically
  796. # [19:57] <Mad_Gouki> I want it bad, not because it's really going to be that much better than cookies, but because it's new.
  797. # [19:57] <mantas322> then I'll figure out how to somehow associate a specific unique user to HIS particular manifest
  798. # [19:58] <Mad_Gouki> I'm sure there's some security hole that will make the whole thing seem like a bad idea a few years down the road too.
  799. # [19:58] <mantas322> i just learned about local storage and cache manifest litterally 3 days ago
  800. # [19:58] <mantas322> and i think its a huge security hole already
  801. # [19:58] <mantas322> u shouldnt be able to dump all this javascript and whatnot w/o users knowing
  802. # [19:58] <Mad_Gouki> local storage is cool, just don't mess up and put something like a session id in localStorage when you meant to put it in sessionStorage.
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  804. # [20:00] <mantas322> I agree
  805. # [20:00] <mantas322> html5 is very cool indeed
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  825. # [20:16] <kurrent> haha shit, http://ompldr.org/vYzMwbw
  826. # [20:16] <jarek__> should the usage of "position: fixed" be considered a bad practice?
  827. # [20:16] <jarek__> t's support on mobiles is buggy and it breaks when transforms are used
  828. # [20:16] <Mad_Gouki> interesting. I noticed some serious issues with animations using position: fixed, but I figued it was just me derping it up
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  830. # [20:18] <jarek__> "Any value other than ‘none’ for the transform results in the creation of both a stacking context and a containing block. The object acts as though position: relative has been specified, but also acts as a containing block for fixed positioned descendants. "
  831. # [20:18] <jarek__> so basically, the spec says that transforms should break the behavior of "position: fixed" :/
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  839. # [20:29] <ghinda> does anybody know some jquery(or not) plugin for something similar to backbone's data models?
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  850. # [20:46] <Mad_Gouki> LongBeach: wow, how are you doing man?
  851. # [20:47] <Mad_Gouki> I know you're the LongBeach I know because you've got a .fr address
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  871. # [21:06] <mantas322> hey guys
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  873. # [21:06] <mantas322> okay
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  875. # [21:07] <mantas322> so my thing only cache as long as the page is open?
  876. # [21:07] <mantas322> if im in the process of caching resources and the page gets redirected, it will no longer cash
  877. # [21:07] * ericduran|food is now known as ericduran
  878. # [21:07] <mantas322> cache
  879. # [21:08] <mantas322> okay so i guess my next step is to figure out how to wait long enopugh untill caching is complete
  880. # [21:09] <mantas322> ugh
  881. # [21:10] <mantas322> this just becomes more elaborate every step i acomplish
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  883. # [21:13] <mantas322> HOW!
  884. # [21:13] <mantas322> im googling "html5 caching is complete event example"
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  888. # [21:18] <mantas322> is it even possible to capture this event some how
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  903. # [21:41] <Lebannen> mantas322: have a look for applicationCache events
  904. # [21:41] <Lebannen> you could even display a progress bar
  905. # [21:41] <mantas322> really
  906. # [21:42] <mantas322> I kinda got side tracked to another part of this super project
  907. # [21:42] <mantas322> I will be figuring out what u recommened tomorrow probably
  908. # [21:42] <Lebannen> :)
  909. # [21:42] <mantas322> thanks though, I will look into those
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  914. # [21:54] <aitiba> hi
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  916. # [21:54] <aitiba> someone knw how can I delete of the database with indexeddb?
  917. # [21:55] <aitiba> someone know how can I delete a database with indexeddb?
  918. # [21:55] <SmashingX> someone could help me to tell me how can I test for functionality a HTML5 page? What would be a good option?
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  926. # [22:01] <m00bles> aitiba: http://html5labs.interoperabilitybridges.com/IndexedDBTest/CodeSnippets/samples.html
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  929. # [22:02] <Pomax> SmashingX, functionality of what? CSS? JavaScript? HTML elements?
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  933. # [22:04] <SmashingX> in general
  934. # [22:04] <SmashingX> for any problem Pomax
  935. # [22:04] <mantas322> is it possible to loop through the content of Applicaiton cache the way it is with Local Storage????
  936. # [22:07] <mantas322> liek I can do var myOutputString = localStorage.getItem(localStorage.key(i)) ;
  937. # [22:07] <mantas322> but can i do the same with the things inside cache manifest or did I detrail completely and shouldnt be looking in there anyways
  938. # [22:07] <mantas322> derail*
  939. # [22:08] <SmashingX> Pomax: but the most important would be to test if the access to the database is good
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  943. # [22:10] <root66> more progress... http://hookerbots.com/npc/html5.php?script=default&w=1280&h=720
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  945. # [22:11] <mantas322> shouldnt u make some android games?
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  948. # [22:12] <root66> porting to java from javascript won't be hard
  949. # [22:12] <Mad_Gouki> lol
  950. # [22:12] <root66> if I should decide to
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  952. # [22:13] <Mad_Gouki> going from JS to Java seems like the difficult direction
  953. # [22:13] <root66> did you even look at how simple the code is?
  954. # [22:13] <Mad_Gouki> no, I'm just talking in general
  955. # [22:14] <Mad_Gouki> protip - I don't pay attention
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  958. # [22:15] <root66> pretty sure I could just change those js classes to java classes and the rest would copy and paste
  959. # [22:15] <root66> except the drawing bit
  960. # [22:15] <root66> which I would do in gl on android anyway
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  964. # [22:19] <aitiba> I'm trying to have indexeddb only on offline. for that I have this code http://pastebin.ca/2099840. I'm online and I cached the files, go offline create indexeddb, add data, go online and the indexeddb is not deleted. any ideas?
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  998. # [22:47] <jimi_hendrix> can i set an individual pixel with canvas
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  1026. # [23:22] <Jon47> jimi_hendrix yep
  1027. # [23:22] <jimi_hendrix> Jon47, how? i dont see a setPixel method
  1028. # [23:23] <jimi_hendrix> i have been doing ctx.fillRect(x, y, 1, 1)
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  1032. # [23:25] <Jon47> acutally that might be the best way
  1033. # [23:26] <Jon47> i was thinkgin about image data, but that's sligthly different from just the canvas
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  1037. # [23:28] * Joins: BrianBlakely (04355ead@gateway/web/freenode/ip.4.53.94.173)
  1038. # [23:29] <BrianBlakely> divya: Are you around? -o-paged questions if you have time
  1039. # [23:29] <divya> BrianBlakely: sure!
  1040. # [23:29] <divya> ask
  1041. # [23:30] <jimi_hendrix> Jon47, image data is probably better for my uses, but i know nothing about it
  1042. # [23:30] <BrianBlakely> Is this planned to ship in a proper Opera divya
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  1044. # [23:30] <divya> BrianBlakely: yeah definitely
  1045. # [23:30] <divya> most likely 12
  1046. # [23:31] <BrianBlakely> divya: Is everyone open to feedback?
  1047. # [23:31] <divya> deffo
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  1051. # [23:32] <BrianBlakely> divya: Is this the most current documentation: http://people.opera.com/howcome/2011/reader/
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  1053. # [23:35] <BrianBlakely> I don't want to give uninformed opinions and make superfluous feature requests
  1054. # [23:35] <Jon47> jimi_hendrix, check this out http://creativejs.com/2011/12/day-3-play-with-your-pixels/
  1055. # [23:35] <jimi_hendrix> thanks
  1056. # [23:36] <divya> BrianBlakely: http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-gcpm/
  1057. # [23:36] <divya> thats where latest is at
  1058. # [23:36] <BrianBlakely> divya: O noes W3C documentation ;P
  1059. # [23:37] <BrianBlakely> divya: Thank you :)
  1060. # [23:37] <BrianBlakely> divya: Who would be best to jam with about the spec?
  1061. # [23:37] <divya> BrianBlakely: you can ask me! howcome sometimes hangs about css channel on w3 server
  1062. # [23:37] <divya> but dont bet on it
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  1065. # [23:38] <BrianBlakely> divya: Awesome. I've got a meeting two minutes ago, let's chat later though?
  1066. # [23:38] <divya> definitely
  1067. # [23:39] <BrianBlakely> Sweet ttyl!
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The end :)