/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2012-01-13 / end

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  115. # [02:22] <xarxer> What good is the role attribute for?
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  117. # [02:23] <tw2113> ?g role attribute
  118. # [02:23] <bot-t> tw2113, XHTML Role Attribute Module - http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-role/
  119. # [02:26] <Pomax> heh. paul_irish, you might like this. For font load detection in pdf.js I just wrote a dynamic minimal font generator in JS. At the moment it'll generate a font containing exactly one zero-width glyph, for the character of your choice, but we're trying to find out if we can make it use opentype cmap "format 13" so that every unicode code point is covered =)
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  121. # [02:26] <Pomax> it generates fonts so small you can paste the base64 string on IRC =D
  122. # [02:27] <IanWizard-Cloud> xarxer: http://www.w3.org/wiki/PF/XTech/HTML5/RoleAttribute
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  126. # [02:33] <Pomax> fantastic. OTS doesn't allow anything other than format 4 CMAP subtables. I am liking OTS less and less...
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  162. # [03:46] <IanWizard-Cloud> Any way to do something like transform: matrix(a, b, c, d); but where the vals, are the coords for the corners? Not to seem math uninclined, but.. it seems much more obvio..er.. simple. :)
  163. # [03:50] <IanWizard-Cloud> Or does someone more mathematically inclined see a simple way to convert coords-to-matrix? I have to be honest, I don't quite grasp the geometry / math of the matrix transform.
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  166. # [03:59] <Pomax> what are you trying to do.
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  169. # [03:59] <Pomax> a transform matrix does rotation and translation in one step. if you just want to translate, there's the translate(x y) option
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  171. # [04:03] <IanWizard-Cloud> Pomax: I was just thinking of a (possibly better, definitely simpler) way of defining the transform. requiring the UA to handle calculating the angles, and simply defining the points for the corners.
  172. # [04:05] <Pomax> but what do you mean with "the corners"?
  173. # [04:06] <IanWizard-Cloud> Pomax: on the basis of a square.
  174. # [04:06] <Pomax> that still leaves me puzzled as to what kind of transform you are thinking about
  175. # [04:07] <IanWizard-Cloud> Pomax: perhaps I am mis-perceiving how the actual rendering model / transformation is handled.
  176. # [04:07] <IanWizard-Cloud> Pomax: assume that you have a square
  177. # [04:07] <Pomax> possibly, but I still have no idea what you actually want to *do* =)
  178. # [04:07] <Pomax> okay
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  180. # [04:08] <IanWizard-Cloud> Pomax: rather than defining the mathematical matrix, you define the points for the four corners.
  181. # [04:09] <Pomax> no, step back, because I don't know what you think "the matrix" does.
  182. # [04:09] <Pomax> I have a square, what is it you want to do to this square?
  183. # [04:09] <IanWizard-Cloud> Pomax: in my example you specify the coordinates, (probably relative to their initial positions).
  184. # [04:09] <IanWizard-Cloud> Pomax: just the same as a matrix transform.
  185. # [04:10] <Pomax> so move AND rotate?
  186. # [04:10] <IanWizard-Cloud> Pomax: translate is easy, so I'm not considering it in my example
  187. # [04:10] <IanWizard-Cloud> Pomax: rotate, and skew
  188. # [04:10] <IanWizard-Cloud> Pomax: skew / destort
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  190. # [04:11] <Pomax> then we'd need a function that says where all four corners will end up.
  191. # [04:11] <Pomax> needing 8 arguments.
  192. # [04:11] <Pomax> not 4.
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  195. # [04:11] <IanWizard-Cloud> Pomax: well, you could handle it as a ratio, but that's still math, which I'm trying to keep out of it, for simplicity
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  197. # [04:12] <IanWizard-Cloud> Pomax: it's simply specifying where to put the corners of the square, and letting the browser handle transforming the square to get it to that shape
  198. # [04:13] <IanWizard-Cloud> Pomax: it's just a consideration
  199. # [04:13] <Pomax> no need to keep prepending my nickname, and yes it's a reasonable idea.
  200. # [04:13] <Pomax> probably worth filing a request for.
  201. # [04:14] <Pomax> athough it might get tricky for nested transforms (but not insurmountably so that I can think of)
  202. # [04:14] <IanWizard-Cloud> Pomax: that said... I realize that, perhaps matrix() can't handle "perspective". aka, skinny at one end, wide at the other
  203. # [04:14] <IanWizard-Cloud> I highlight because I know that people (much like myself), rely on that, and go on to other things while they wait for the conversation.
  204. # [04:15] <Pomax> affine transforms can't do the "photoshop" distort operation
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  207. # [04:16] <IanWizard-Cloud> photoshop?
  208. # [04:16] <Pomax> photoshop, gimp, etc.
  209. # [04:16] <Pomax> bitmap graphics applications
  210. # [04:16] <IanWizard-Cloud> I just don't know what you meant by it. (I'm fairly familiar :P )
  211. # [04:17] <Pomax> you wouldn't be able to call your operation an affine matrix operation, but there's no reason why "transform: ..." has to be exclusively affine. requesting a more generate distortion makes sense
  212. # [04:17] <Pomax> *general
  213. # [04:19] <Pomax> not 100% sure how you'd go about suggesting it, but the css working group mailing list is probably a good place to do so.
  214. # [04:19] <Pomax> http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/members.en.php3
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  216. # [04:19] <IanWizard-Cloud> Pomax: so, are you saying that a completely "free" transform would be possible (without using canvas)? with current transforms?
  217. # [04:20] <IanWizard-Cloud> I think that I got something backward there :P
  218. # [04:21] <Pomax> you did. I am saying that currently, CSS transforms are affine transforms, and will only do translation, rotation and skew.
  219. # [04:21] <Pomax> leading to every shape a combination of that gives you.
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  221. # [04:22] <Pomax> one thing you cannot do with affine transforms, is free distortion (i.e. take a rectangle, and freely move the corners to some funky polygon with the content interpolated based on the new corner coordinates)
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  224. # [04:23] <Pomax> so you'd have to request distort(x1,y1,...,x4,y4) as a new transform operation for the next iteration of CSS
  225. # [04:23] <Pomax> or Canvas2D, if you want it for canvas instead
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  227. # [04:23] <IanWizard-Cloud> Pomax: ok, sorry / thanks :)
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  229. # [04:23] <IanWizard-Cloud> yeah, I'm thinking if I were going to use it now, then I should just use canvas
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  238. # [04:53] <jarek> Hello
  239. # [04:54] <jarek> I have noticed that the animations are significantly slower on WebKit when I enable hardware accelerated compositing
  240. # [04:54] <jarek> could it be because of my hardware, or is it slower in general?
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  254. # [05:23] <IanWizard-Cloud> jarek: it depends on your hardware :)
  255. # [05:24] <IanWizard-Cloud> jarek: it's possible that it's software related, but more than likely, it's just your hardware.. what is you hardware?
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  372. # [09:45] <sasori> is there a problem if the input type="image" submit button is at the beginning of the form? just right after the form element ?
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  391. # [10:54] <kevindougans> so who's awake? how good does it feel that its friday!
  392. # [10:55] <abraxas> 12 more minutes :) officially
  393. # [10:55] <abraxas> (office hours)
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  395. # [10:59] <kevindougans> 12 more minutes?? jeez where are you? i'm gonna guess somewhere in asia
  396. # [11:01] <kevindougans> abraxas: i'm guessing somewhere between indian and singapore
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  405. # [11:28] <abraxas> kevindougans: tokyo
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  407. # [11:32] <mr_lou> Is it me, or is it surprisingly problematic to embed my own TTF fonts? Seems to be quite simple, by adding a @font-face in stylesheet, and then using that font defined. But just nothing happens in any of the browsers I test (Firefox, Opera, Chrome, Internet Explorer).
  408. # [11:32] <shwetank> whats the code you're using mr_lou ?
  409. # [11:33] <mr_lou> shwetank, Lemme find some example source again online, which I've tried. I looked at a few pages, and they all seem to use the same procedure.
  410. # [11:33] <JakeA> mr_lou: If you've got a spare hour, I gave a talk on the best-you-can-do code for embedding fonts, and why it's still fucked http://vimeo.com/33154573
  411. # [11:33] <mr_lou> This one for example: http://www.giantflyingsaucer.com/blog/?p=2250
  412. # [11:34] <mr_lou> JakeA, Phew.. an hour I don't have right now. But may watch later.
  413. # [11:34] <shwetank> maybe there is a typo in your code regarding relative or absolute urls for the fonts?
  414. # [11:34] <mr_lou> shwetank, No
  415. # [11:36] <shwetank> mr_lou btw, might be a good idea to embed multiple formats of the fonts ... ttf, eot, woff, svg etc if possible
  416. # [11:36] <mr_lou> shwetank, Yes I read that too. Even tried some generator. Still nothing.
  417. # [11:37] <mr_lou> shwetank, Or.... the generator did give a result, but a weird one. The font was all full of huge spaces all the sudden in Firefox.
  418. # [11:37] <shwetank> hmmm, which font is it, btw? just curious
  419. # [11:37] <JakeA> mr_lou: Here's the syntax for @font-face along with the browser that depend on it http://www.slideshare.net/jaffathecake/in-your-fontface/38
  420. # [11:38] <mr_lou> shwetank, Frutiger
  421. # [11:39] <shwetank> JakeA NIce talk, did you get the mankini from bruce?
  422. # [11:39] <JakeA> certainly did
  423. # [11:40] <shwetank> i thought it looked familiar :P
  424. # [11:40] <JakeA> Thankfully, it was still in its packaging when I got hold of it, so it wasn't… used *shudder*
  425. # [11:40] <shwetank> lol
  426. # [11:41] <mr_lou> Tried using this: http://www.fontsquirrel.com/fontface/generator
  427. # [11:41] <mr_lou> Gave a result at least, although not an acceptable one.
  428. # [11:41] <mr_lou> Will try again now.
  429. # [11:42] <shwetank> damn, where can i download it? or is it a paid download?
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  486. # [13:21] <NimeshNeema> Can someone please suggest a GUI text editor for web dev (will be mostly editing hand-written .js .css and .html) with code folding and bracket matching for ubuntu 11.10
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  499. # [13:41] <hijimayor> Hi all ! First time on irc, but I have a question I would like to gain some perspective on..
  500. # [13:42] <hijimayor> I haven't done any JS and would like to teach myself.
  501. # [13:42] <hijimayor> My main work is in image processing
  502. # [13:42] <JakeA> Do you have any programming experience at all?
  503. # [13:42] <hijimayor> Not sure if many of you have heard about OpenCV, but it is a huge library for image processing
  504. # [13:42] <hijimayor> yes, in C, C++, and lots of Python
  505. # [13:42] * Joins: mr_lou (~sirlou@0x555321d8.adsl.cybercity.dk)
  506. # [13:43] <hijimayor> So I was wondering if there as any need for a library that does client-side image processing
  507. # [13:43] <hijimayor> If what I use to teach myself could help others in any way I'd be very happy
  508. # [13:43] <nuba> hijimayor: might want to talk with the #bbg folks too.
  509. # [13:44] <hijimayor> bbg?
  510. # [13:44] <nuba> bbg as in browser-based games
  511. # [13:44] <hijimayor> ohh ok ok
  512. # [13:44] <hijimayor> I will do that
  513. # [13:44] <JakeA> Dave Shea did some basic image processing stuff http://mezzoblue.com/archives/2010/10/07/paintbrushjs/
  514. # [13:44] <JakeA> There's also http://processingjs.org/ …depends on the kind of processing you're after
  515. # [13:45] <hijimayor> I took a look at Processing.js and it seems to be geared towards visualization
  516. # [13:45] <hijimayor> what I want to teach myself is more along the lines of using WebWorkers for image processing
  517. # [13:45] * Quits: [E]sc (~armani@cm218-252-220-28.hkcable.com.hk) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  518. # [13:46] <hijimayor> About paintbrush.js, I read this "You use it by applying a class to an element on the page and setting
  519. # [13:46] <hijimayor> a few parameters with some extra HTML attributes." on the page
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  521. # [13:46] <hijimayor> and that limits you to basically just one operation (if I understand right)
  522. # [13:46] <JakeA> You can only pass text between workers and the rendering thread, so it'd be interesting if you can make it worth while
  523. # [13:47] <hijimayor> and doesn't let you do more interesting stuff since you don't get mathematical operations
  524. # [13:47] <hijimayor> how about image data encoded as base64
  525. # [13:47] <hijimayor> or something like that?
  526. # [13:47] <nuba> hijimayor: you might want to drop a /msg to kanzure too, i think i've seen him talking about some libraries for gfx or 3d he's missing
  527. # [13:48] <hijimayor> Forgive me, but this is my first time on irc .. not sure if I'm replying in public to messages I'm receiving in private .. I should go rtfm :D
  528. # [13:48] <JakeA> hijimayor: Yeah, but you'd then need to convert base64 into pixel data in the worker to manipulate, then back to base64 for sending to the main thread
  529. # [13:48] * Quits: diraol (~diraol@189.38.130.99) (Quit: Leaving.)
  530. # [13:48] <nuba> hijimayor: to send a private msg, /msg nick
  531. # [13:49] <nuba> what's your irc client?
  532. # [13:49] <JakeA> I'm not saying web workers wouldn't be faster, but for large volumes of data it can be tough
  533. # [13:49] <hijimayor> YChat
  534. # [13:50] <hijimayor> @JakeA, I thought it'd be good for large volumes?
  535. # [13:50] <hijimayor> since you could parallelize it better?
  536. # [13:50] <nuba> hijimayor: this one http://ychat.sarovar.org/screenshots.html ? if yes i'd guess it'll open a new tab in the bottom when you send a private message to somebody
  537. # [13:50] <nuba> you might be able to right-click on a nick and pick something like 'send private message' or 'query'
  538. # [13:51] <hijimayor> Nope, this one : http://xchat.org/
  539. # [13:51] <hijimayor> The title bar says YChat, and the About dialog says YChat
  540. # [13:51] <hijimayor> wonder why
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  542. # [13:51] <hijimayor> is it normal to use private messages rather than public ones?
  543. # [13:51] <JakeA> it'll keep the ui thread free sure, but you might find the encoding/decoding you need to do make it a lot slower
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  545. # [13:52] <nuba> hijimayor: type /msg nuba blah and look for a tab. that's a private chat.
  546. # [13:53] <nuba> hijimayor: ok you did it :)
  547. # [13:53] <hijimayor> is there any way I can skip the encoding, decoding overhead?
  548. # [13:54] <hijimayor> the ImageData API ?
  549. # [13:54] <JakeA> If it turns out the encoding/decoding is too much of an overhead, you can use setTimeout to do little bits of work at a time
  550. # [13:54] <JakeA> the ui thread will run inbetween calls
  551. # [13:55] <hijimayor> hmmm ....
  552. # [13:55] <JakeA> Web workers may be good enough, just saying they're not the magic bullet they can seem to be
  553. # [13:55] <hijimayor> the implementation aside, do you feel there is any use for such a library? Or is it a make it and if its good enough they'll come situation
  554. # [13:56] <JakeA> well, there are already tools to 'process' images, so it would depend on what yours would do different/better
  555. # [13:56] <hijimayor> well, I believe I did not state my intentions properly
  556. # [13:56] <hijimayor> there are already tools to process images
  557. # [13:57] <hijimayor> but I don't find tools to write actual vision algorithms in JS
  558. # [13:57] <hijimayor> like object detection in the browser
  559. # [13:57] <hijimayor> or say, some sort of motion tracking
  560. # [13:57] <hijimayor> sure there are lots of examples but they all seem to redo the basic operations?
  561. # [13:57] <JakeA> give it a go, put it on github, make some cool demos :D
  562. # [13:58] <hijimayor> yeah :D
  563. # [13:58] <hijimayor> that's the plan
  564. # [13:58] <hijimayor> let's see how it works out ;)
  565. # [13:59] <jarek> hijimayor: have you heard about http://fabric-engine.com/products/ ?
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  567. # [14:03] <jarek> is there really a need for doing heavy processing in browsers?
  568. # [14:03] <hijimayor> precisely my doubt
  569. # [14:03] <hijimayor> I don't know
  570. # [14:03] <hijimayor> one small voice in my head says "Why not!"
  571. # [14:04] <jarek> http://drublic.de/blog/effects-for-the-web/
  572. # [14:04] <jarek> we will soon have filter effects like in Photoshop
  573. # [14:04] <jarek> available via CSS
  574. # [14:05] <hijimayor> yes, but they will not let you do any of the "cool" things if you could actually access pixels
  575. # [14:05] <hijimayor> as I said, I stated my intent wrong
  576. # [14:05] <jarek> what about CSS shaders? https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/FXTF/raw-file/tip/custom/index.html
  577. # [14:06] <hijimayor> what I want to do is write something for vision algorithms and not image "processing" as in using filters
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  579. # [14:07] <jarek> what could be a potential use case for that?
  580. # [14:07] <moo^_^> hijimayor: that's what <canvas> is for, of course
  581. # [14:07] <moo^_^> right tool for the right job
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  586. # [14:10] <hijimayor> Not sure if you guys have heard of OpenCV, but it is a wonderful library for image processing
  587. # [14:10] <hijimayor> http://opencv.willowgarage.com/documentation/python/index.html
  588. # [14:10] <hijimayor> Canvas seems to offer ways to draw stuff
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  590. # [14:10] <hijimayor> lines, curves, colours
  591. # [14:11] <hijimayor> I want something that lets you work with the raster data
  592. # [14:11] <hijimayor> say, subtracting two images
  593. # [14:11] <tsatse> do you want to port opencv to js ? :P
  594. # [14:11] <hijimayor> or doing edge detection
  595. # [14:11] <moo^_^> hijimayor: that is high level image processing
  596. # [14:11] <hijimayor> Nope
  597. # [14:11] <andrewjbaker> You can get at the raster data thru' image data.
  598. # [14:11] <hijimayor> I can't
  599. # [14:11] <moo^_^> hijimayor: you can implement the same on the top of canvas
  600. # [14:11] <moo^_^> or using raw arrays
  601. # [14:11] <andrewjbaker> getImageData().
  602. # [14:11] <hijimayor> OpenCV uses too much bit-level magic
  603. # [14:12] <hijimayor> and frankly you dont have to worry if your image is loaded with 32 bit floats or 8 bit ints
  604. # [14:12] <tsatse> so what do you want to write, more specifically ?
  605. # [14:12] <hijimayor> the first steps I imagine is creating some classes to represent the image (probably not needed because the canvas already offers that)
  606. # [14:12] <andrewjbaker> Indeed.
  607. # [14:13] <hijimayor> the next step would be to write simple functions for image addition, subtraction
  608. # [14:13] <hijimayor> (remember I've never used js before)
  609. # [14:13] <tsatse> don't worry, it's very close to python
  610. # [14:13] <hijimayor> going on, I'd like to implement some basic filters
  611. # [14:13] <hijimayor> at this point you should be able to do some interesting stuff already
  612. # [14:13] <hijimayor> with very little hassle
  613. # [14:13] <tsatse> i mean not syntaxically but you can think of your program the same way
  614. # [14:13] <hijimayor> for eg. in Python I could do
  615. # [14:13] <hijimayor> import cv
  616. # [14:14] <hijimayor> image = cv.LoadImage("someimaeg.bmp")
  617. # [14:14] <hijimayor> gray = cv.CvtColor(image, image, cv.RGB2GRAY)
  618. # [14:14] <tsatse> so you want to reimplement cv algorithms in js, right ?
  619. # [14:14] <hijimayor> yes
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  623. # [14:15] <tsatse> sounds interesting, do you have prior experience in cv ?
  624. # [14:15] <hijimayor> yes
  625. # [14:15] <tsatse> canvas is very straightforward to use
  626. # [14:15] <hijimayor> I'd love to learn JS with something I'm already familiar with
  627. # [14:15] <hijimayor> go on
  628. # [14:15] <moo^_^> hijimayor: start by learning what kind of operations have been already implement with <canvas>
  629. # [14:15] <moo^_^> it is very straightforward
  630. # [14:16] <tsatse> you can blit images on it, retrieve the actual pixel data to do processing on it
  631. # [14:16] <hijimayor> right ..
  632. # [14:16] <andrewjbaker> http://www.html5canvastutorials.com/
  633. # [14:16] <tsatse> they blit them back
  634. # [14:17] <hijimayor> @andrewjbaker, thanks for the link :)
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  636. # [14:17] <nuba> tsatse: andrewjbaker: told ya! :)
  637. # [14:17] <andrewjbaker> ^^
  638. # [14:17] <ryan_tait> morning peeps
  639. # [14:17] <tsatse> hijimayor, did you already investigate existing libs in the field ?
  640. # [14:17] <tsatse> i know you do that to learn js but
  641. # [14:17] <tsatse> i can be interesting anyway
  642. # [14:17] <hijimayor> tsatse, I have to admit I have not done justive to that. I have only looked at paintbrush.js and processing.js
  643. # [14:17] <tsatse> cheers nuba
  644. # [14:18] <andrewjbaker> Making games is a fun way to learn JS and canvas.^^
  645. # [14:18] <tsatse> hehe andrewjbaker the shameless recruiter
  646. # [14:18] * andrewjbaker looks left, looks down; whistles to himself. :-p
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  649. # [14:18] <tsatse> and computer vision in games would be awesome
  650. # [14:19] <tsatse> nudge nudge
  651. # [14:19] <hijimayor> Yes
  652. # [14:19] <hijimayor> I hear many browsers will be implementing getMedia()
  653. # [14:19] <andrewjbaker> tsatse, if only there were a channel dedicated to gamedev w/ HTML5 devs in...
  654. # [14:19] <hijimayor> which will allow access to webcams
  655. # [14:19] <tsatse> andrewjbaker, wait i think i heard about one
  656. # [14:19] <andrewjbaker> tsatse, oh?^^
  657. # [14:20] <tsatse> it was bb... something
  658. # [14:20] <nuba> andrewjbaker: nah, it's pipe dream
  659. # [14:20] <andrewjbaker> LOL.
  660. # [14:20] <hijimayor> once you can access the webcam stream, your possibility space balloons up
  661. # [14:20] <andrewjbaker> tsatse, #bbg ? :-p
  662. # [14:20] <tsatse> hijimayor, i wouldn't count on webcam support too soon, but you can always fall back to flash
  663. # [14:20] <tsatse> andrewjbaker, yes ! that's the one !
  664. # [14:21] <tsatse> awesome place
  665. # [14:21] <andrewjbaker> LMAO.
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  690. # [14:54] <hijimayor> Is there any recommended IDE for JS+HTML5 btw ?
  691. # [14:54] <hijimayor> something hopefully with autocomplete? :D
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  694. # [14:56] <ryan_tait> what os?
  695. # [14:57] <ryan_tait> i like Sublime Text
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  697. # [14:57] <ryan_tait> ..personally, or phpstorm
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  699. # [14:57] <hughfdjackson> :P i recommend vim
  700. # [14:57] <hughfdjackson> hehe
  701. # [14:57] <ryan_tait> vim is nice too
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  703. # [14:58] <hughfdjackson> it won't be so long until, mdn in hand, you know the relevant native APIs
  704. # [14:58] <oberhamsi> hijimayor, intellij and eclipse have JS support if you want IDE
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  706. # [14:58] <hughfdjackson> although i was trollin a little ;)
  707. # [14:58] <ryan_tait> cloud9 ide is neat too, got to try it out
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  711. # [14:58] <hijimayor> I already use Eclipse for Python and I love it
  712. # [14:59] <hijimayor> I need to install JSDT, I take it
  713. # [14:59] <ryan_tait> yeah eclipse is what everyone here at my work uses
  714. # [15:00] <hijimayor> cool! thanks :)
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  744. # [15:36] <hijimayor> hey is there any way to get the colour data of a pixel from an image, instead of the location on the canvas ?
  745. # [15:36] <moo^_^> hijimayor: you don't make sense
  746. # [15:36] <hijimayor> I mean, I draw an image onto the canvas
  747. # [15:37] <hijimayor> and lets say, my image is drawn from (100, 200) instead of (0,0)
  748. # [15:37] <hijimayor> I see a function getImageData() which will return the colour of the pixel at x,y on the canvas
  749. # [15:38] <hijimayor> is there a function that reads from the image instead of the canvas?
  750. # [15:38] <moo^_^> hijimayor: you need to convert Image objects to Canvas objects first
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  752. # [15:38] <moo^_^> by creating canvas size of the image and drawing image on it
  753. # [15:39] <hijimayor> yes, I have drawn to the canvas
  754. # [15:39] <hijimayor> and I can see my image
  755. # [15:39] <moo^_^> good
  756. # [15:39] <hijimayor> my question is a bit different ...
  757. # [15:39] <moo^_^> then there is no problem :)
  758. # [15:39] <moo^_^> if you see it you can read it
  759. # [15:39] <hijimayor> see getImageData() will give me all the data on the canvas
  760. # [15:40] <hijimayor> I want all the data on the image, without having to keep track of where my image starts from
  761. # [15:40] <moo^_^> hijimayor: then do as I said above
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  763. # [15:40] <hijimayor> for eg. I draw a 100x100 image on a canvas that is 500x500
  764. # [15:41] <moo^_^> if the canvas is not the size of the image it's your responsibility to know where it image is
  765. # [15:41] <JakeA> yep, create a secondary canvas
  766. # [15:41] <moo^_^> it's simple +x +y operation
  767. # [15:41] <moo^_^> I assume you can do arithmetics :)
  768. # [15:41] <JakeA> what moo^_^ said
  769. # [15:41] <hijimayor> now I want to get image.data[10,10]
  770. # [15:41] <hijimayor> yes, I can do the arithmetic, but I was hoping there would be access to the image object
  771. # [15:41] <hijimayor> it seems there isnt
  772. # [15:41] <hijimayor> nvm
  773. # [15:41] <hijimayor> thanks :)
  774. # [15:42] <moo^_^> hijimayor: canvas is pixel data - it is not vector operations
  775. # [15:42] <moo^_^> you cannot know the source of the pixel data on canvas
  776. # [15:42] <moo^_^> it is a buffer
  777. # [15:43] <hijimayor> I see
  778. # [15:44] <moo^_^> canvas is just a big array with RGBA data as 32-bit ints and some fancy methods for performing draw operations
  779. # [15:44] <hijimayor> so if I want to implement a function getpix(img, x,y) where img is the image I loaded, that isnt possible in a straightforward manner
  780. # [15:44] <hijimayor> ↑
  781. # [15:44] <moo^_^> hijimayor: Image objects are native browser obejcts and you cannot know what kind of pixel data they contain
  782. # [15:44] <moo^_^> it is abstracted away
  783. # [15:44] <JakeA> create a new canvas, write the image to it, get pixel data from it
  784. # [15:44] <moo^_^> they could be vector images
  785. # [15:45] <hijimayor> ahh ok... thats exactly what I wanted to know
  786. # [15:45] <moo^_^> good :)
  787. # [15:45] <hijimayor> thank you
  788. # [15:49] <moo^_^> does there exist "on-line microsoft word HTML cleaner"?
  789. # [15:49] <moo^_^> or similar
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  791. # [15:49] <ryan_tait> like word doc to clean html?
  792. # [15:49] <moo^_^> aha http://word2cleanhtml.com/
  793. # [15:49] <ryan_tait> yup that one
  794. # [15:49] <ryan_tait> haha
  795. # [15:50] <JakeA> There's also a button to paste from Word in tinymce http://www.tinymce.com/tryit/full.php
  796. # [15:50] <JakeA> no idea if it's better/worse
  797. # [15:50] <moo^_^> however word2cleanhtml fails
  798. # [15:50] <moo^_^> it puts content in nested <table>
  799. # [15:51] <moo^_^> so
  800. # [15:51] <moo^_^> word2almostcleanhmtl
  801. # [15:51] <ryan_tait> yeah its not perfect
  802. # [15:51] <ryan_tait> put alot of divs in too i noticed when not needed
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  826. # [16:34] <hijimayor> is there some sort of high performance numerical library for JS? or am I just laughing at the wall?
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  829. # [16:35] <JakeA> what kind of operations are we talking about?
  830. # [16:36] <JakeA> Eg, 3+1 is pretty fast already
  831. # [16:36] <thisgeek> hijimayor: Something like Java Colt?
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  838. # [16:43] <moo^_^> hijimayor: there was a recent article comparing the speed of Javascript math libraries (Matrix opers)
  839. # [16:43] <moo^_^> cannot remember the link
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  841. # [16:48] <thisgeek> I found http://sylvester.jcoglan.com/ just now. Looks a little undercooked, but maybe it's a lead.
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  964. # [19:47] <ryan-> is it ok to use a div inside an li?
  965. # [19:47] * Vennril_away is now known as Vennril
  966. # [19:48] <danielfilho> I think so, but does it HAVE to be a div?
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  968. # [19:49] <ryan-> not sure yet
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  972. # [19:51] <Pomax> it's okay, but highly questionable - why do you need a div?
  973. # [19:51] <hober> <li><div> is conforming, sure
  974. # [19:52] <ryan-> building a dynamic slider, would generally use a ul for the elements, but want to separate the parts of each slide according to my grid
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  976. # [19:52] <ryan-> so a span8, span4
  977. # [19:53] <Pomax> if it's a slider, <ol> makes more sense (since they're definitely ordered)
  978. # [19:53] <hober> <li> takes flow content, and <div> is flow content
  979. # [19:53] <Pomax> but I guess divs are okay in that use.
  980. # [19:56] <ryan-> something like this.. http://pastie.textmate.org/3179788
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  1079. # [22:08] <trave> would anyone care to enlighten me if its worth it to continue using -moz, -webkit CSS prefixes for box-shadow and border-radius declarations? Seems to me like most modern browser versions handle the vanilla one just fine, how big of a chunk would I be losing?
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  1117. # [22:45] <xarxer> Is it browser-safe to use the <header> tag?
  1118. # [22:47] <rupl> trave: http://caniuse.com/#feat=border-radius - you have to look at your analytics to make the best judgement
  1119. # [22:47] <moo^_^> xarxer: use html5-shiv for legacy browse compatibility
  1120. # [22:47] <Pomax> xarxer, as long as you use modernizr or something to make sure older browsers don't die on it, sure.
  1121. # [22:47] <xarxer> moo^_^: Ah, thanks :)
  1122. # [22:47] <xarxer> Pomax: Okay, much obliged :)
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  1124. # [22:47] <trave> rupl: Thanks, thats true. I'll continue to use em in www type scenarios, and just use the modern declaration in tools that we control access to.
  1125. # [22:49] <divya> trave: http://h5bp.github.com/html5please/#border-radius
  1126. # [22:50] <trave> divya: thats the answer im lookin for. :]
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  1129. # [22:56] <Pomax> does IE9 have btoa() somewhere in a place that I am not looking for it?
  1130. # [22:56] <Pomax> (it's not available globally, on window. or on document.)
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  1134. # [22:59] <divya> trave: ssshh we will launch it soons
  1135. # [22:59] <divya> :)
  1136. # [23:00] <trave> my network is tiny :]
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  1144. # [23:12] <Pomax> divya: would you happen to know which font engine Opera uses?
  1145. # [23:12] <divya> Pomax: what does that mean :(
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  1147. # [23:13] <moo^_^> Pomax: Freetype or OS native?
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  1149. # [23:13] <moo^_^> are there other choices?
  1150. # [23:14] <Pomax> Opera is compiled with some library for text-rendering, like FreeType or Pango or something similar, I'm seeing it render a font that has no actual outline glyphs as a small line, which is very very confusing, so I'm wondering if that's a problem with Opera, or with whatever font engine it uses
  1151. # [23:14] <moo^_^> Pomax: check opera licensing information
  1152. # [23:14] <moo^_^> it will reveal if it's freetype
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  1154. # [23:15] <Pomax> I do not see any mention of a font engine in about:about
  1155. # [23:15] <Pomax> sorry, opera:about
  1156. # [23:17] <Pomax> I'd love to find someone from Opera who deals with the font engine side.. there's a number of really weird quirks in it.
  1157. # [23:17] <Pomax> (that you'll never run into as a normal user)
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  1159. # [23:22] <sandprickle> anybody have any tips for a guy who has a foggy idea for a (web) app, but isn't sure how to go about implementing it?
  1160. # [23:24] <divya> Pomax: looks like freetype
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  1162. # [23:25] <sandprickle> basically it's a personal timeline. So on the client side i'm thinking svg data visualization (events, etc.)
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  1164. # [23:26] <sandprickle> not sure how to store and transport the time/event data tho :/
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  1166. # [23:27] <sandprickle> I guess that's my biggest question: what data format to use
  1167. # [23:27] <divya> sandprickle: json
  1168. # [23:28] <sandprickle> ok, that's what I started with
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  1172. # [23:29] <sandprickle> also, I think I want it to be a client-side app primarily. I'm using web technology because that's what I know. so should I be using the FileSystem API?
  1173. # [23:30] <sandprickle> or how could I implement some sort of back end on the client without having to make the use set up a web server?
  1174. # [23:30] <sandprickle> *user
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  1176. # [23:31] <sandprickle> if you follow
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  1183. # [23:36] <sandprickle> thought I might use IndexedDB, but wouldn't that be easy to delete accidentally?
  1184. # [23:37] <moo^_^> sandprickle: browsers can wipe user data from the settings
  1185. # [23:37] <moo^_^> but "accidentally
  1186. # [23:37] <moo^_^> nah
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  1189. # [23:37] <sandprickle> so like if i clear cache will it clear the IndexDB too?
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  1192. # [23:37] <sandprickle> *IndexedDB, blah
  1193. # [23:38] <moo^_^> no
  1194. # [23:38] <moo^_^> that would be... plain stupid?
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  1196. # [23:39] <sandprickle> ok, so in that case IndexedDB would work for storage, and JSON for transport
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  1198. # [23:41] <moo^_^> sandprickle: exactly
  1199. # [23:41] <moo^_^> indexeddb size is limtited though
  1200. # [23:41] <moo^_^> I believe it is capped at 5 MB
  1201. # [23:41] <moo^_^> no photos there, then
  1202. # [23:41] <sandprickle> hmm ok
  1203. # [23:41] <sandprickle> is that confiturable?
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  1205. # [23:42] <sandprickle> sorry *configurable
  1206. # [23:42] <moo^_^> no
  1207. # [23:42] <moo^_^> limited by the browsers
  1208. # [23:43] <moo^_^> some browser allow +5 MB more by Dialog window configuration
  1209. # [23:43] <moo^_^> but AFAIK there is no standard about it
  1210. # [23:43] <moo^_^> i.e. Asking from the user
  1211. # [23:43] <moo^_^> "This page xxx wants to store data on HD"
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  1213. # [23:44] <sandprickle> ok. So I guess I'll just see how much space I will need; may need to use JSON for everything after all
  1214. # [23:45] <sandprickle> I gtg but thanks divya and moo^_^
  1215. # [23:45] <moo^_^> sandprickle: here are some tips how to keep your code together when writing complex apps in JS http://opensourcehacker.com/2011/11/05/javascript-how-to-avoid-the-bad-parts/
  1216. # [23:45] <moo^_^> tips learnt hard way
  1217. # [23:45] <sandprickle> ok, thanks!
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The end :)