/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2012-01-15 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sun Jan 15 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
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  17. # [00:08] <trsohmers> Greetings, programs
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  22. # [00:10] <trsohmers> Greetings... anyone here familiar with HTML5's geolocation API?
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  26. # [00:13] <trsohmers> Anyone around?
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  32. # [00:22] <trsohmers> Still no one around?
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  34. # [00:23] <Pomax> I'm gone again, but ask your question first, then wait. not the other way around
  35. # [00:24] <trsohmers> OK then... I'm trying to find a way to determine the users MAC Address using HTML5/JS...
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  39. # [00:25] <trsohmers> I know the geolocalization API (here: http://www.w3.org/TR/geolocation-API/#introduction) says that you can use the clients Bluetooth and Wifi MAC Address... any details on how to get that information?
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  106. # [02:45] <DavidBradbury> Hmm, so I know it is legal to omit using the body tag... but can you use it, and have the header tag come before the body tag?
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  189. # [06:11] <qawsedrf> hi remysharp
  190. # [06:11] <qawsedrf> are you jsbin creator?
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  196. # [06:36] <vladikoff> qawsedrf, yes he is :)
  197. # [06:45] <qawsedrf> vladikoff: i need some help
  198. # [06:46] <qawsedrf> http://www.webdevout.net/test?0s&raw - try this and you will understand. the map is loaded at a shot in jsbin.com but in my testcase its not :( , why so ?
  199. # [06:46] <qawsedrf> at once*
  200. # [06:46] <qawsedrf> really stuck here, need a fix :(
  201. # [06:50] * tw2113 hugs the dom
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  203. # [06:51] <qawsedrf> i need a fix so badly.
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  205. # [06:51] <qawsedrf> i tried to go throught jsbin source on github, nothin special i can see
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  209. # [07:25] <barh> i am looking for images marquee scroller for jquery, or any tutorial how to make one
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  302. # [12:48] <moo^_^> what was the site which tells if you need vendor prefix or not in CSS3 rules?
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  305. # [12:50] <Diabolele> hy everybosy
  306. # [12:50] <Diabolele> everybody
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  308. # [12:52] <moo^_^> flexbox layout takes vendor prefixes to yet another level: http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/flexbox/quick/ :P
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  322. # [13:30] <Velmont> moo^_^: vendor profixes is so useless.
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  324. # [13:31] <moo^_^> Velmont: yes
  325. # [13:31] <moo^_^> but I need to know when they can be already dropped
  326. # [13:31] <moo^_^> there was some site telling when you need vendor prefix and when not
  327. # [13:31] <moo^_^> anymore
  328. # [13:31] <Velmont> They are hurting the web.
  329. # [13:31] <Velmont> would prefer -draft1-blabla -draft2-blabla instead
  330. # [13:32] <Velmont> Then everyone implementing the new flexbox draft would be using -draft2-box-orient
  331. # [13:32] <Velmont> Instead of having to write -moz-box-orient -webkit-box-orient, --- and lo and behold, at some point probably -o-box-orient and -ms-box-orient
  332. # [13:34] <Velmont> And people write box-orient without any prefixes anyway, -- so it's not like the prefixing actually keeps us from breaking the web. It's the exact opposite, the vendor prefixes actively break the web, because people mostly only write -webkit-somefeature when now at this time, all browsers implement it.
  333. # [13:34] <Velmont> Ofc. it's the developers that are lazy etc, -- but in the end everyone is hurting. Well, except webkit maybe, which always seems to get the longest straw in these things.
  334. # [13:35] <Velmont> Not long until our current web and most webdevs mindset will be like it was in IE6 times. "I'm targetting only IE6 because that's what people use" seems very similar to todays "We're only targetting webkit"...
  335. # [13:36] <Velmont> We're in for a lot of hurt if we don't fix it. :-) IMHO.
  336. # [13:36] <Velmont> Luckily many people have the same opinion :-)
  337. # [13:42] <Ms2ger> Velmont, yeah, let me know when you've got helpful comments, thanks
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  355. # [14:54] <daleharvey> the -draft- prefix is a useful idea, I would prefer it that way
  356. # [14:55] <daleharvey> but yeh, vendor prefixes are a thousand times better than blindly different implementations as it was before
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  360. # [15:03] <Velmont> Ms2ger: Hm? Did you think it was unhelpful?
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  362. # [15:09] <Velmont> daleharvey: The implementations converge pretty quickly. I don't think many of the features need to stay prefixed so long. As long as there is consensus on the spec and we're starting to see more than one stable, nice implementations.
  363. # [15:10] <Velmont> daleharvey: And also, having prefix based on the actual spec will help as far as I can see, -- because if you've written code for one spec, then another browser implementing the same will either honor it in their test implementation when it comes around to it, or the spec will get a new draft prefix if it breaks backwards compat.
  364. # [15:12] <daleharvey> yeh I agree with that part, they could be designed in a way that makes life easier when their implementation get stabilised quickly, but its still a massive step forward from what it was before, most certainly not hurting the web, just not an optimal solution
  365. # [15:13] <moo^_^> Javascript was not optimal solution. HTML was not optimal solution. CSS was very un-optimal solution.
  366. # [15:13] <moo^_^> but somehow it all works! :)
  367. # [15:14] <Velmont> moo^_^: Well, I'm not saying drop CSS :-) Changing from vendor prefixes to spec prefixes is hardly a academic purist in the sky-thinking.
  368. # [15:15] <moo^_^> instead of vendor-prefixes I'd have some "use strict;" style mode setting in CSS per section
  369. # [15:15] <moo^_^> so you don't need to -draft1 every prefix
  370. # [15:15] <moo^_^> but select it once for the whole file (or section)
  371. # [15:15] <moo^_^> no idea how that could work :P
  372. # [15:16] <Velmont> daleharvey: The reason I think it's hurting is because, let's say webkit implements something first, then they write -webkit-option: bla, - and then, when another mobile browser comes along, and supports the same option, it doesn't work.
  373. # [15:17] <qawsedrf> i have a problem - http://www.webdevout.net/test?0s&raw - try this and you will understand. the map is loaded at once in jsbin.com but in my testcase its not :( , why so ?
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  375. # [15:18] <Velmont> daleharvey: The vendor prefixes was made for browsers doing crazy "innovation" on their own and making up stuff out of the blue. (<- a bit too dramatic, but well) Now, most of the things they implement is in very good faith, and everyone is very good at cooperating; so it's causing unecessary breakage.
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  413. # [17:33] <qawsedrf> remysharp: hi
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  416. # [17:37] <moo^_^> any tips where to check input=type color support?
  417. # [17:39] <paul_irish> Pomax: the font generator sounds nuts. and awesome
  418. # [17:39] <moo^_^> aha
  419. # [17:39] <moo^_^> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=547004
  420. # [17:39] <paul_irish> moo^_^: there is a ticket for moz and a ticket for webkit
  421. # [17:40] <paul_irish> webkit will land it before moz
  422. # [17:40] <moo^_^> looks like not there yet
  423. # [17:40] <paul_irish> opera has had it for ages.
  424. # [17:40] <moo^_^> next year, then :)
  425. # [17:40] <paul_irish> webkit in q1
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  430. # [17:52] <moo^_^> was there some HTML5 way to filter keystrokes on <input>?
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  446. # [18:35] <mightym> hey guys, I'm playing around with cache manifest works fine so far when using f.e. a index.html file. but i wonder what one should do if the browser just shows the ip/domain but no file. someone a hint for me?
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  449. # [18:40] <moo^_^> mightym: Manifrest is per URL and HTTP protocol does not care how HTML is generated on the server per URL
  450. # [18:41] <mightym> moo^_^: so there is no need for f.e. an index.html to use the site offline
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  453. # [18:41] <moo^_^> mightym: me, or HTML, doesn't care if you call your URL squirrels.com or squirrels.com/nuts
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  455. # [18:42] <moo^_^> mightym: so no
  456. # [18:42] <moo^_^> mightym: I don't know how you would get such an idea in the first place
  457. # [18:43] <moo^_^> index.html is just the name of the file Apache webserver picks by default from a holder
  458. # [18:43] <moo^_^> folder
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  460. # [18:43] <moo^_^> it is not any way related to HTML or HTTP
  461. # [18:43] <mightym> ok, thx a lot for your help. i was thinking the cache manifest works like a browser cache, and saves all elements listed in the manifest. so i wondered where it would save the hmtl dom
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  508. # [20:32] <jetienne_> hi$
  509. # [20:32] <tw2113> yo
  510. # [20:32] <andrewjbaker> Hi jetienne_.
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  517. # [21:03] <tw2113> http://css3.bradshawenterprises.com/demos/speed.php
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  525. # [21:11] <andrewjbaker> tw2113, you should see the stuff fokker680's working on over in #bbg.
  526. # [21:11] <andrewjbaker> It's a CSS 3D engine.
  527. # [21:11] <andrewjbaker> He's making a flight sim.
  528. # [21:11] <tw2113> sweet
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  532. # [21:12] <andrewjbaker> I know it's hard to believe, but this is CSS... http://i.imgur.com/YyWSJ.png
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  541. # [21:41] <moo^_^> andrewjbaker: you need to say it with the style of 300 the movie
  542. # [21:41] <moo^_^> THIS... IS... CSS3
  543. # [21:41] <moo^_^> and then the face
  544. # [21:41] <andrewjbaker> LOL.
  545. # [21:42] <andrewjbaker> Defo. :-D
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  547. # [21:42] <moo^_^> http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/this-is-sparta
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  550. # [21:45] <mightym> hey guys, i managed using a cache manifest for my site the first time :) but i wonder why i get an error that my site offline can't find the cache manifest … i don't get it, what am i doing wrong?
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  552. # [21:52] <martndemus> mightym: can we take a peek at your manifest?
  553. # [21:52] <martndemus> (i have never done cache manifest, but to succesfully debug it, its helpfull to read the source)
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  557. # [21:53] <mightym> martndemus: sure http://pastie.org/3191218
  558. # [21:54] <martndemus> hmm i can't spot any obvious errors
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  561. # [21:57] <mightym> martndemus: hmmm ok, thy anyway for your help. but maybe you can give me another hint on this:
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  563. # [21:59] <martndemus> shoot
  564. # [21:59] <mightym> i have a script which saves/updates objects from the client in my db on the server. while the user is offline id like this script to save/update to local storage. what is a good strategy for this. is there a api in html 5 to check f.e. if the user is online?
  565. # [22:00] <mightym> or is it possible to say sty like "if client using offline cache -> then"
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  568. # [22:01] <martndemus> mightym: not sure, but you can propably try to fetch a page you are sure that will never get cached
  569. # [22:01] <martndemus> and if it 404's your offline
  570. # [22:03] <mightym> yes at least :) but I'm sure there is sth like what I'm looking for … you can access the cache via window.applicationCache … and the browser is doing sth like "check if sites online, if not use applicationCache" too
  571. # [22:04] <martndemus> yeah, there are a few browsers that support navigator.onLine, but it says online when you are connected to a network, even if that network doesnt have internet acces
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  573. # [22:05] <martndemus> so i think using that with a double check of trying to request a page you are sure of they can only get if they are actually online is the way to go aobut detecting online/offline
  574. # [22:08] <martndemus> http://www.html5rocks.com/en/mobile/workingoffthegrid.html <- that might help you
  575. # [22:09] <mightym> martndemus: ah thx a lot, i also found http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#applicationcache
  576. # [22:09] <mightym> thx for your help mate!
  577. # [22:10] <martndemus> always like to help people
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  588. # [22:31] <barh> hey guys, how do you call in CSS the space between lines in the same paragrapgh?
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  590. # [22:31] <tw2113> line height?
  591. # [22:31] <barh> let me try
  592. # [22:32] <martndemus> line-heigth
  593. # [22:33] <barh> it doesn't work for me
  594. # [22:33] <barh> like this? "line-height:10px;"
  595. # [22:33] <barh> pixels?
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  597. # [22:34] <tw2113> try a higher px total
  598. # [22:34] <martndemus> try line-height:2;
  599. # [22:34] <tw2113> i've found that it usually needs to be bigger than the font-size
  600. # [22:34] <barh> oh it works
  601. # [22:35] <barh> thank you!
  602. # [22:35] <martndemus> line-height: 1 === line-height: font-sizeinpixels
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  606. # [22:42] <Pomax> 1em?
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  626. # [23:39] <aitiba> hi
  627. # [23:40] <aitiba> placeholder tag run on firefox? I have one placeholder that goes well on chrome but not on firefox
  628. # [23:45] <daleharvey> works for me - http://pastebin.me/7527e8141378569d0ddc40714401fc78
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  630. # [23:48] <aitiba> I have firefox 3.6.10 which version of firefox have you got daleharvey
  631. # [23:49] <daleharvey> heh, 3.6 is over a year old, I am on 9
  632. # [23:49] <tw2113> i'm using 11
  633. # [23:49] <daleharvey> sorry wait, over 2 years old
  634. # [23:50] <tw2113> i'd guarantee placeholder isn't supported in 3.6
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  636. # [23:51] <martndemus> if you are still running 3.6, it's about time you updatee
  637. # [23:52] <daleharvey> btw, im looking for feedback on my side project - http://junk.arandomurl.com/Protoshop/
  638. # [23:52] <tw2113> i bet Fx9 works on XP...why can't IE9?
  639. # [23:52] <daleharvey> its purely for designing websites (the code that it outputs will be utterly unusable)
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  641. # [23:53] <martndemus> grid layout is dead, long live grid layouts =D
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  643. # [23:54] <tw2113> i hate that phrase...long live that phrase
  644. # [23:55] <Pomax> tw2113: so that you, as a normal home user, stop using XP?
  645. # [23:55] <tw2113> i upgraded my one instance of Windows to 7
  646. # [23:55] <tw2113> the rest of the time i'm on linux
  647. # [23:56] <Pomax> then "why can't IE9" is moot =)
  648. # [23:57] <tw2113> it's all marketing
  649. # [23:58] <Pomax> of course. MS wants you to stop using XP, so it no longer makes things that have OS dependencies for XP
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  652. # Session Close: Mon Jan 16 00:00:00 2012

The end :)