/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2012-01-17 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Jan 17 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
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  16. # [00:28] <mightym> hey guys, I've build an offline website/application using cache manifest, works great. but when using it offline i get an error in my console that the site can't find the cache manifest file. don't get the logic behind that. someone a hint for me?
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  31. # [00:57] <sneakers> what is the best alternative to provide in a video element? i am using webM video but most browsers do not play it.
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  40. # [01:05] <OzDave_imac> mpeg4 would probably be better
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  61. # [01:43] <tw2113> tantek i had a question for ya
  62. # [01:44] <sneakers> What is the best html5 alternative to a WebM container with a VP8 codec?
  63. # [01:44] <obert-> can i use @font-face with html4 dtd?
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  65. # [01:44] <tw2113> i don't see what would stop you obert-
  66. # [01:44] <obert-> uff that's css3 indeed
  67. # [01:45] <obert-> not html5-related
  68. # [01:45] <tw2113> doctype has nothing to do with how it'd work though
  69. # [01:45] <obert-> BAH
  70. # [01:45] <tw2113> obert- remember IE5.5 or so was when the @font-face stuff started
  71. # [01:45] <obert-> i need a girl definately
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  73. # [01:46] <obert-> or so what means?
  74. # [01:46] <obert-> 6 too?
  75. # [01:46] <tw2113> yeah
  76. # [01:46] <Pomax> @font-face was IE4
  77. # [01:46] <obert-> till?
  78. # [01:46] <tw2113> font format was the key issue though
  79. # [01:46] <Pomax> MS has had it since forever.
  80. # [01:46] <tw2113> 5.5-8 only support .eot if i recall right
  81. # [01:46] <obert-> ah it was supported already
  82. # [01:47] <obert-> yeah i read about the story of magical ?
  83. # [01:47] <tw2113> dunno sneakers
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  85. # [01:47] <sneakers> tw2113, I have a page with a WebM VP8 file and it only plays in Chrome but not in any other browser. So I think I need to have an alternative in my video element. The only question to me is what is the best alternative?
  86. # [01:48] <tw2113> ogg/mpeg4/webm should get you the most success cross browser
  87. # [01:48] <sneakers> so mpeg4 then?
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  89. # [01:49] <tw2113> i wouldn't say best, but it'd get you more browsers :P
  90. # [01:49] <tw2113> but that's because i'm biased against proprietary stuff
  91. # [01:49] <obert-> blah blah
  92. # [01:50] <Pomax> sneakers, http://badassjs.com/post/13551173773/route9-js-a-vp8-webm-decoder-in-javascript
  93. # [01:50] <obert-> you should code .net too for food :p
  94. # [01:50] <tw2113> ajpiano i didn't realize you hung out on IRC too
  95. # [01:50] <tw2113> bite your tongue obert-
  96. # [01:50] <sneakers> tw2113, is mpeg4 non-free or closed-source?
  97. # [01:51] <tw2113> yes
  98. # [01:51] <tw2113> but it'd get you IE and safari for sure
  99. # [01:52] <tw2113> webm SHOULD be getting you firefox, chrome, and opera though
  100. # [01:52] <tw2113> http://caniuse.com/#feat=webm
  101. # [01:53] <sneakers> tw2113, Can I pm you with a question?
  102. # [01:53] <tw2113> why keep it private?
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  104. # [01:54] <tw2113> especially if it's about video stuff, which i don't know the most on
  105. # [01:54] <tw2113> more eyes = more possible help
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  108. # [01:56] <sneakers> I have a personal web page that I built by hand and it is html5 valid. But my video element ONLY plays on Google Chrome.
  109. # [01:56] <tw2113> http://caniuse.com/#feat=ogv
  110. # [01:56] <Pomax> so what does firefox's web console say when you load it
  111. # [01:56] <tw2113> ogg would cover firefox/crhome/opera too
  112. # [01:56] <tw2113> and you could just throw in a flash player version for the rest
  113. # [01:57] <sneakers> http://fpaste.org/j8ih/
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  115. # [01:57] <sneakers> That's my current video element with only WebM VP8.
  116. # [01:57] <tw2113> ooh fpaste
  117. # [01:57] <Pomax> can't debug a paste. got an actual URL?
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  119. # [01:58] <sneakers> just don't laugh please
  120. # [01:58] <sneakers> or hack it
  121. # [01:58] <tw2113> that'd be rude
  122. # [01:58] <tw2113> that'd take effort
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  124. # [01:59] <sneakers> http://green.land.hailmail.net/ and btw it also works in Epiphany browser (the GNOME browser).
  125. # [01:59] <tw2113> "No video with supported format and MIME type found"
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  127. # [02:02] <sneakers> tw2113, I bet you it works with Chrome or Epiphany browsers...
  128. # [02:02] <sneakers> How can I fix my code to support Firefox and IE9?
  129. # [02:02] <Pomax> hm. no errors in web console or firebug in ff.
  130. # [02:03] <tw2113> i think that quoted portion above may give some direction
  131. # [02:03] <Pomax> IE9 = there is no fix. Offer a different video element for it, because it's not going to support webm any time soon.
  132. # [02:04] <sneakers> IE9 would support mpeg4 correct?
  133. # [02:04] <tw2113> yes
  134. # [02:04] <obert-> is that hard to get an html5 video working?
  135. # [02:05] <tw2113> yes because of format wars obert-
  136. # [02:05] <tw2113> http://caniuse.com/#feat=mpeg4
  137. # [02:05] <obert-> ah again that url
  138. # [02:05] <tw2113> mpeg4 + webm/ogg = great support
  139. # [02:05] <tw2113> except in sneakers' case
  140. # [02:05] <ajpiano> tw2113: i don't have a *career* if not for hanging out on IRC
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  142. # [02:06] <tw2113> ajpiano when's the next yayquery? :P
  143. # [02:06] * ajpiano goes back into hiding :p
  144. # [02:06] <Pomax> also no, because you just add multiple <source> elements
  145. # [02:06] <Pomax> and it *should* fall through.
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  147. # [02:06] <ajpiano> tw2113: as magic 8 ball says, "Answer Unclear"
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  149. # [02:07] <Pomax> and then last you can add a flash player <object> or something
  150. # [02:07] <obert-> no idea
  151. # [02:07] <sneakers> Pomax, Do you suggest mpeg4 + webM then?
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  153. # [02:07] <tw2113> *kicks dirt*
  154. # [02:07] <Pomax> personally, I'd suggest mp4, then ogv, then flash player.
  155. # [02:07] <sneakers> mp4 = short for mpeg4, correct?
  156. # [02:08] <Pomax> yes
  157. # [02:08] <obert-> got same issue if i have to embed a youtube video?
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  159. # [02:08] <obert-> do i get
  160. # [02:09] <ca_bud> http://pastie.org/3198443, is there anything wrong with this HTML? I was just told by the CSS IRC I should fix this first, but they would not tell me what was wrong.
  161. # [02:09] <Pomax> then they're jerks.
  162. # [02:09] <ca_bud> yup, one specific jerk
  163. # [02:09] <obert-> ca_bud: http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http%3A%2F%2Fpastie.org%2F3198443
  164. # [02:09] <Pomax> what makes yo usay something is wrong, though.
  165. # [02:10] <Pomax> it looks like your image src is not quoted, but that's about it at a glance
  166. # [02:10] <ca_bud> radio23 in the CSS basically called me an idiot who does not know anything about CSS or HTML
  167. # [02:10] <tw2113> too bad there's no css in that paste of yours
  168. # [02:10] <obert-> mm not that url :D
  169. # [02:10] <Pomax> I have no idea what you're running between <% %> so replace all of them with LOLLERSKATE and see if the problem is suddenly obvious
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  171. # [02:10] <Pomax> line 6 would be one.
  172. # [02:11] <tw2113> maybe not the best use of <span> in a spot or two
  173. # [02:11] <tw2113> otherwise i see zero issue
  174. # [02:11] <sneakers> Pomax, Please excuse me but I'd like to ask a dumb question. Mpeg4 is the video codec and WebM is the container, correct?
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  176. # [02:11] <ca_bud> is there a good way to post a picture?
  177. # [02:12] <Pomax> both mpeg4 and webm are codecs.
  178. # [02:12] <Pomax> ca_bud, posting a picture won't help.
  179. # [02:12] <obert-> <% == vb?
  180. # [02:12] <Pomax> because that'll just show us a picture.
  181. # [02:12] <sneakers> Pomax, So mp4 is the codec and which container would I choose?
  182. # [02:13] <Pomax> non, mpeg4 has its own container, (mpeg4 layer 14) resulting in the .mp4 extension
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  184. # [02:13] <ca_bud> well, I'm trying to format the look of it and maybe my html is contributing to why I can not get it to look correct.
  185. # [02:13] <Pomax> first things first: span marks up stretches of inline elements.
  186. # [02:13] <Pomax> don't stick <div> elements inside a <span> unless they're inline blocks.
  187. # [02:14] <Pomax> second, line 6 shows <img src=unquotedtexthere alt="thumb">
  188. # [02:14] <Pomax> so add quotes, because a url must be quoted.
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  191. # [02:15] <Pomax> that's really all I can see is wrong in your paste, so if it doesn't style the way you want, it's a good idea to head over to jsfiddle.net and make a slightly more elaborate minimal example with resultant html and the relevant css for it
  192. # [02:15] <Pomax> (i.e. the html code you get when this code is requested from your webserver, not the code with the <%=...%> strings in it)
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  195. # [02:20] <sneakers> Pomax, Does this look valid to you? http://fpaste.org/tTMb/
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  197. # [02:22] <sneakers> tw2113, ^
  198. # [02:22] <sneakers> http://fpaste.org/tTMb/
  199. # [02:22] <tw2113> i see nothing wrong with it
  200. # [02:22] <tw2113> put it in your website and try it
  201. # [02:22] <sneakers> I tried with Firefox and it does not play the sound. Would you mind trying?
  202. # [02:23] * Quits: flipen (~cole@cpe-174-097-167-224.nc.res.rr.com) (Quit: flipen)
  203. # [02:24] <obert-> turn on the volume
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  205. # [02:24] <tw2113> part of me wonders if it's an encoding issue
  206. # [02:25] <obert-> http://jsbin.com/iyotuj
  207. # [02:25] <sneakers> tw2113, The mp3 file plays fine in rhythmbox. I have my sound turned up. In Firefox I get a big grey box with an X in the middle.
  208. # [02:26] <obert-> check paths ;)
  209. # [02:26] * tw2113 wgets the webm file
  210. # [02:26] <sneakers> obert-, The path is correct because the page works fine in Epiphany browser.
  211. # [02:27] <obert-> the html looks correct
  212. # [02:27] <obert-> you could upload some video test online and use the jsbin to test it
  213. # [02:27] <obert-> out
  214. # [02:28] <tw2113> i still also wonder if it's a server config isssue
  215. # [02:28] <tw2113> issue*
  216. # [02:28] <tw2113> I just opened the webm file directly in firefox and it's palying
  217. # [02:28] <tw2113> playing*
  218. # [02:28] <obert-> to check that he would be tested online
  219. # [02:29] <obert-> bah what englsh
  220. # [02:29] <sneakers> How do I do this test?
  221. # [02:29] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-219.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: tantek)
  222. # [02:29] <obert-> uploading all the working stuff online in the production server
  223. # [02:29] <tw2113> i'd start googling mime types for the ogg video/audio, plus webm stuff, and add it to your htaccess file
  224. # [02:29] * Joins: NickC_dev (~burt@cpe-70-112-207-11.austin.res.rr.com)
  225. # [02:29] <obert-> that would be good ;)
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  232. # [02:30] <obert-> sneakers: i only meant that for example if you're building that page under windows and your hosting is linux based, you could meet issues on windows and not under linux or viceversa
  233. # [02:32] <sneakers> obert-, I'm on linux and I have no idea what my host is.
  234. # [02:32] <obert-> are you hosting yourself?
  235. # [02:32] <sneakers> obert-, Nope, its a service I bought through fastmail.fm
  236. # [02:33] <tw2113> you didn't get to choose your hosting type?
  237. # [02:33] <sneakers> tw2113, Maybe I need a new host.
  238. # [02:33] <obert-> are you working in the final place of the script?:)
  239. # [02:33] * Quits: Jonadabe (~Jonadabe@bl9-248-116.dsl.telepac.pt) (Quit: http://www.visitportugal.com | http://www.youtube.com/visitportugal)
  240. # [02:33] <tw2113> dunno if you do or not
  241. # [02:33] <sneakers> I have my index.html and web.css and all my files. I just upload them and the server serves it.
  242. # [02:33] <tw2113> i know i saw unknown mimetype errors when i looked at your url in firefox
  243. # [02:35] <tw2113> here, quick test for you
  244. # [02:35] <tw2113> create a php file, name it whatever you want, and in it, have <?php phpinfo(); ?>
  245. # [02:35] <tw2113> and that's it
  246. # [02:35] <tw2113> then navigate to that file on the server, and if you see a page render, you at least have php working and can start looking for things like "apache" and host info
  247. # [02:36] <tw2113> if it prompts you to download the file, you don't have php or it's not running
  248. # [02:36] <sneakers> I'm not using php. Just straight html and css.
  249. # [02:36] <tw2113> i know you're not
  250. # [02:37] <tw2113> but this would tell us if you can use htaccess files or IIS whatever Microsoft uses
  251. # [02:37] <tw2113> you know, to help get you serving your videos properly
  252. # [02:37] <sneakers> Okay
  253. # [02:37] <ca_bud> Pomax: please take a look at http://cakelly.tzo.com:3000/lodgings/new?trip_id=4 , I changed the span's to div's. The code is really messy, but please focus on the partial section I posted. I want it to look like... http://cakelly.tzo.com:3000/list.jpg. Specificly, I want the number "3" under the hotel name and I want "per night" under the price "$xxx". Given the end result, should I modify that partial.
  254. # [02:38] <sneakers> tw2113, green.land.hailmail.net/test.php
  255. # [02:38] <tw2113> ca_bud I'd add clear: right; to .hotel_summary .summary_text .price .multiple
  256. # [02:39] <tw2113> yeah, you lack php sneakers
  257. # [02:39] * OzDave_imac is now known as OzDave
  258. # [02:40] <tw2113> hmmm
  259. # [02:40] <tw2113> nginz
  260. # [02:40] <tw2113> er nginx
  261. # [02:40] <sneakers> tw2113, So...what do I do then? I don't know PHP.
  262. # [02:40] <sneakers> Get a new host?
  263. # [02:41] <sneakers> anyone know of a good web hosting service?
  264. # [02:41] <tw2113> i'd talk to whoever is hosting now and see if they can add mimetypes for you
  265. # [02:41] * Parts: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113) ("I was raided by the FBI and all I got to keep was this lousy quit message!")
  266. # [02:43] <ca_bud> Pomax: cool! thanks! that worked. I also added a clear:left on .hotel_summary .summary_text .stars , but it ended up dropping the price div down. Any ideas? Take a look at the revise page. just refresh cakelly.tzo.com...
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  272. # [02:51] <ca_bud> Pomax: are you still around?
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  274. # [02:55] <sneakers> What is the mimetype for mp4? mp4 or mpeg4?
  275. # [02:56] <sneakers> <source src="The_Known_Universe_by_AMNH.mp4" type="video/mp4" />
  276. # [02:56] <sneakers> ?
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  280. # [02:59] <sneakers> obert-, Does that look correct ^
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  291. # [03:17] <obert-> dunno
  292. # [03:17] <obert-> but why dont label the file just foo.mp4 ?:P
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  296. # [03:19] <sneakers> I could
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  299. # [03:22] <obert-> doesnt matter anyway
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  483. # [08:36] <Afflicto> Hey all, I'm wondering what elements I should use to build my sites layout. I can show the layout on my stream at dreamvoid.com if you want to see :P
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  486. # [08:38] <Afflicto> Is there a <content> element?.. notepad++ says so.
  487. # [08:39] <tantek> no
  488. # [08:40] <Afflicto> lol ok. I've been using that. haha :D
  489. # [08:40] <Afflicto> any element that isn't "real" will behave as a <div> then, I guess..am I right?
  490. # [08:40] <tantek> or <span>
  491. # [08:41] <tantek> but might behave differently in the future if it's defined to do something in a future version of HTML
  492. # [08:41] <tantek> best to not use made-up elements
  493. # [08:41] <Afflicto> haha yea :P woops ^^
  494. # [08:42] <Afflicto> Hm.. I think I'm supposed to use divs for all layout purposes that does not define anything that is inside it. divs for layout and styling. then <section>, <article>, <header>, <nav> for things that actually mean something.. ish?
  495. # [08:42] <tw2113> i style the header/nav/article tag all the time
  496. # [08:42] <tw2113> just like they were divs
  497. # [08:42] <tw2113> but they're not B-)
  498. # [08:43] <tw2113> tantek i was wondering what type of setup you had so that you own your own tweets
  499. # [08:44] <Afflicto> yea I do that too tw. I guess what I'm saying is divs.. nevermind. I don't even know.
  500. # [08:45] <tw2113> it sounded like you were referencing either wrapping the new markup in a div for styling, or putting one in them for styling
  501. # [08:45] <tw2113> <nav><div>stuff</div></nav>
  502. # [08:46] <tantek> tw2113 - I'm using my own custom software, some of which I've open sourced, called Falcon: http://tantek.com/w/Falcon
  503. # [08:47] <tw2113> cool
  504. # [08:47] <tw2113> I'll check it out. Thanks
  505. # [08:47] <tw2113> definitely worth looking into, given how much we trust other services with stuff like this
  506. # [08:49] <tantek> yeah
  507. # [08:49] <tantek> I think for most folks, the quickest/easiest path is Wordpress on your own domain.
  508. # [08:49] <tantek> but I've stubbornly decided to write a simpler solution from scratch
  509. # [08:49] <tw2113> you do what you have to, really
  510. # [08:50] <tw2113> i am a big +1 for WP though, it earns me money
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  512. # [08:54] <obert-> $_$
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  520. # [09:07] <grantg> tanktek: Do you run into this on chrome? http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=110411&thanks=110411&ts=1326769461
  521. # [09:07] <grantg> There has to be other people running into this bug
  522. # [09:08] <grantg> where CPU usage keeps going up and up until it hits 100% for no darn good reason
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  648. # [10:42] <danbeam> semi-strange question, does anybody know if you can "animate" content in CSS? i.e. @keyframe anim-name { 0% { content: 'hey'; } 50% { content: 'ho'; } 100% { content: 'the dairy-o'; } } ?
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  651. # [10:45] <tw2113> that's css5 danbeam
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  653. # [10:45] <tw2113> :P jk i dunno
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  658. # [10:46] <danbeam> tw2113: yes, might be (css5 by the time they get to adding something like this...)
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  1010. # [15:02] <rhelic> off topic but... So every year my wife and I help sponsor a free wedding give-a-way, we own a wedding planning business.... it was given away just over the weekend, you can see the winner here http://centralny.ynn.com/content/top_stories/570331/couple-wins--20-000-wedding-package/
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  1211. # [19:57] <daleharvey> paul_irish: is there any magical access to the clipboard feature in chrome (or firefox) that I dont know about yet?
  1212. # [19:57] <daleharvey> no clipboard access is pretty high on my list of why building web apps sucks
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  1219. # [20:04] <Jon47> daleharvey - co-opting browser functionality is high on my list of reasons to think a particular web-app sucks
  1220. # [20:05] <Jon47> there are flash shims for this feature you desire and I've never seen it used for good
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  1223. # [20:06] <daleharvey> flash can only write to the clipboard, not read from it
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  1226. # [20:07] <Jon47> daleharvey - should a web app have access to text you copied from a different tab, or a different application altogether?
  1227. # [20:09] <daleharvey> yes, thats pretty much why the clipboard exists, to take stuff from one place to another, and yes the security implications are easily solved, like they have been for geolocation
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  1281. # [21:53] <moo^_^> websql is dead, right?
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  1284. # [21:59] <ryan_tait> I'd say so.. http://www.w3.org/TR/webdatabase/
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  1286. # [22:02] <moo^_^> good
  1287. # [22:02] <moo^_^> less SQL there is world the better
  1288. # [22:03] <ryan_tait> :)
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  1310. # [22:37] <Jon47> sql is pretty sweet
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  1312. # [22:38] <Jon47> relational database - think about data in an object oriented way, in a way where you have a single source of truth and don't have to repeat yourself
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  1314. # [22:39] <tantek> jon47, and then you woke up.
  1315. # [22:39] <tantek> ;)
  1316. # [22:39] <moo^_^> Jon47: SQL is very powerful tool for those who master it
  1317. # [22:39] <moo^_^> which 95% web developers don't
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  1319. # [22:39] <moo^_^> instead, they keep shooting off their and their buddies' legs
  1320. # [22:40] <moo^_^> SQL was not designed for web
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  1322. # [22:40] <tantek> "single source of truth" - ah, so SQL is a religion?
  1323. # [22:41] <Jon47> i just don't like to hear anybody disparaging any technology
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  1325. # [22:41] <Jon47> technology does what it was designed to do, if you've got a problem with people mis-using it, that's another thing
  1326. # [22:42] <tantek> i prefer to disparage technologies, not people
  1327. # [22:42] <Jon47> are you implying that i was disparaging peopel?
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  1349. # [23:09] <josefrichter> guys, have <meta name="viewport" content="width=device-width"> working well on iPad on most pages, except one single page. Is there anything that can override this meta tag for that particular page? Don't understand what's the problem with that page.
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  1351. # [23:10] <chovy> josefrichter: got a url?
  1352. # [23:11] <josefrichter> the page should be accessible at http://chiba.cz:3000 now, and the problematic page is http://chiba.cz:3000/recherche?q=Gaumont for example
  1353. # [23:11] <josefrichter> chovy ^
  1354. # [23:11] <josefrichter> only problem is iPad in portrait orientation
  1355. # [23:14] <josefrichter> can't even scale down
  1356. # [23:14] <chovy> josefrichter: my guess is your search bar is causing it to not respect the attribute.
  1357. # [23:15] <josefrichter> chovy search bar? how?
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  1361. # [23:17] <josefrichter> chovy you mean the search textileld or what?
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  1364. # [23:21] <josefrichter> chovy so?
  1365. # [23:25] <josefrichter> anyone, please?
  1366. # [23:26] <moo^_^> josefrichter: maybe here you can find hints how to deal with the viewport http://opensourcehacker.com/2012/01/09/setting-mobile-browser-viewport-mobilizing-websites-with-responsive-design-and-html5-part-4/
  1367. # [23:26] <moo^_^> josefrichter: I don't have iPad now in hand, so I cannot test your page
  1368. # [23:27] <moo^_^> josefrichter: I suggest as a workaround you strip off the tag on the server-side or using Javascript + iPad detection
  1369. # [23:27] <moo^_^> iPad respects dynamic viewport modifications, unlike most of the browsers
  1370. # [23:28] <josefrichter> moo thanks, will try
  1371. # [23:30] <chovy> josefrichter: yeah. i'm thinking maybe the search input field is too wide.
  1372. # [23:33] <josefrichter> chovy tried to change the field to 100px and the problem persists. but actually removing the viewport meta tag altogether seems to fix the problem, with no apparent side effects on iPad and iPhone.
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  1387. # [23:57] <chovy> josefrichter: i was just guessing. maybe something else is pushing it out.
  1388. # Session Close: Wed Jan 18 00:00:00 2012

The end :)