/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2012-01-23 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Mon Jan 23 00:00:01 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
  3. # [00:05] * Quits: pinage_faim (~pinage404@APuteaux-651-1-108-91.w82-124.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: pon pon way way way! pon pon way pon way pon pon! way way pon pon pon! way way pon way pon way way!)
  4. # [00:08] * Joins: Akina (~chatzilla@46.246.134.240.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr)
  5. # [00:08] * Parts: Akina (~chatzilla@46.246.134.240.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr)
  6. # [00:09] * Quits: techrush- (~techrush@cpe-76-175-29-57.socal.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  7. # [00:13] * Joins: Jon47 (~Adium@c-67-180-11-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  8. # [00:13] * Joins: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113)
  9. # [00:14] * Quits: debsan (~debsan@190.245.74.16) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  10. # [00:14] * Joins: debsan (~debsan@190.245.74.16)
  11. # [00:18] * Quits: simenbrekken (~simenbrek@c85-196-101-98.static.sdsl.no) (Remote host closed the connection)
  12. # [00:20] * Quits: tobyx (~tobyx@fsf/member/tobyx) (Quit: Leaving...)
  13. # [00:28] * Joins: nerdfiles1 (~Adium@rrcs-97-77-180-51.sw.biz.rr.com)
  14. # [00:30] * Parts: nerdfiles1 (~Adium@rrcs-97-77-180-51.sw.biz.rr.com)
  15. # [00:31] * Joins: NickC_dev (~burt@rrcs-97-77-181-228.sw.biz.rr.com)
  16. # [00:34] * Quits: y3di (~y3di@pool-72-74-113-246.bstnma.east.verizon.net)
  17. # [00:40] * Quits: debsan (~debsan@190.245.74.16) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  18. # [00:41] * Quits: deasy (~deasy@85.201.207.128) (Quit: Nom d'un quark, c'est Edmonton!)
  19. # [00:42] * Quits: squeakytoy (~squeakyto@107-232-96-87.cust.blixtvik.se) (Quit: Leaving)
  20. # [00:45] * Quits: pocopina (~pocopina@cpc10-camd13-2-0-cust53.hari.cable.virginmedia.com) (Quit: Leaving)
  21. # [00:46] * Quits: Jon47 (~Adium@c-67-180-11-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
  22. # [00:52] * Joins: devongovett (~devongove@pcp038545pcs.morro.reshall.calpoly.edu)
  23. # [00:55] * Quits: dpogue (~dpogue@S010600226b831d53.vf.shawcable.net) (Quit: :q!)
  24. # [00:55] * Quits: koggdal (~koggdal@c83-251-117-159.bredband.comhem.se) (Quit: koggdal)
  25. # [00:57] * Joins: sephr (~Eli@c-98-235-63-240.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
  26. # [00:59] * Joins: dpogue (~dpogue@S010600226b831d53.vf.shawcable.net)
  27. # [01:03] <remysharp> I'm reading that the gamma on deviceorientation should range from -90 - 90 (http://dev.w3.org/geo/api/spec-source-orientation.html#deviceorientation) but when actually testing on a phone, it's reporting ranges -180 - 180 - is the spec wrong?
  28. # [01:04] * Joins: OzDave_imac (~OzDave@27-33-43-79.static.tpgi.com.au)
  29. # [01:07] * Joins: Shama| (~|SM|@unaffiliated/shama/x-4273013)
  30. # [01:07] * Quits: socialhapy (~socialhap@46-38-167-162.static.cloud-ips.co.uk) (Remote host closed the connection)
  31. # [01:07] * Joins: socialhapy (~socialhap@46-38-167-162.static.cloud-ips.co.uk)
  32. # [01:10] * Quits: OzDave_imac (~OzDave@27-33-43-79.static.tpgi.com.au) (Quit: OzDave_imac)
  33. # [01:13] * Quits: Hopsy (~kvirc@77.63.23.207) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  34. # [01:13] * Parts: Shama| (~|SM|@unaffiliated/shama/x-4273013) ("Saliendo")
  35. # [01:13] * Quits: socialhapy (~socialhap@46-38-167-162.static.cloud-ips.co.uk) (Remote host closed the connection)
  36. # [01:14] * Joins: socialhapy (~socialhap@46-38-167-162.static.cloud-ips.co.uk)
  37. # [01:19] <tw2113> how would i go about globalizing geolocation latlon data? I want to only call for that once and put them into useable variables
  38. # [01:21] * Joins: aitiba (~aitiba@18.169.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es)
  39. # [01:21] * Joins: JanHe (~Jan@x1-6-00-26-f2-66-2b-fe.k884.webspeed.dk)
  40. # [01:21] * Quits: devongovett (~devongove@pcp038545pcs.morro.reshall.calpoly.edu) (Quit: devongovett)
  41. # [01:24] * Joins: dmachi1 (~dmachi@pool-72-66-209-165.ronkva.east.verizon.net)
  42. # [01:24] * Quits: dmachi (~dmachi@pool-72-66-209-165.ronkva.east.verizon.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  43. # [01:25] * Joins: Jon47 (~Adium@c-67-180-11-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  44. # [01:25] * Quits: aQustic (~aQustic@180.69.9.46.customer.cdi.no) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  45. # [01:26] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@ai126212030148.5.tik.access-internet.ne.jp) (Quit: tantek)
  46. # [01:33] * Joins: aQustic (~aQustic@180.69.9.46.customer.cdi.no)
  47. # [01:34] * Joins: s_segawa (~s_segawa@221x251x236x110.ap221.ftth.ucom.ne.jp)
  48. # [01:34] * Quits: JanHe (~Jan@x1-6-00-26-f2-66-2b-fe.k884.webspeed.dk)
  49. # [01:35] <tw2113> nevermind
  50. # [01:37] * Quits: sw0rdfish (~Johnson@unaffiliated/robinux) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  51. # [01:39] <ryanseddon> remysharp: according to the safari docks gamma is between -180 and 180 https://developer.apple.com/library/safari/#documentation/SafariDOMAdditions/Reference/DeviceOrientationEventClassRef/DeviceOrientationEvent/DeviceOrientationEvent.html
  52. # [01:40] <remysharp> ryanseddon: gah - another Apple vs. everyone else then.
  53. # [01:40] <ryanseddon> yep
  54. # [01:40] * Joins: joepie92 (~joepie91@s514735fe.adsl.wanadoo.nl)
  55. # [01:43] <ryanseddon> remysharp: heh it's actually backwards beta is -90 and 90 and gamma is -180 and 180 in safari docks reversed in actual spec
  56. # [01:43] <ryanseddon> docs*
  57. # [01:43] <remysharp> yeah, I've been testing iOS against emulated deviceorientation (by the specs) and found that out already
  58. # [01:43] <remysharp> I was utterly confused for a while
  59. # [01:43] * Joins: OzDave_imac (~OzDave@27-33-43-79.static.tpgi.com.au)
  60. # [01:43] <remysharp> then just figured screw it!
  61. # [01:43] <jair> guys I have a large image 1366x768 and I want to use this image as the main background of the index page, in top of the image I will be creating a form with only one box to enter the email and a button to click "go" and will send the email to a sign up list or database.
  62. # [01:43] <redheadphones> is there a tool around that i can use to check for syntax and other errors/warnings in my html5 templates?
  63. # [01:44] <jair> if I look at the image it is not in the middle in some browsers specially the mobile ones or when I resize the browser page
  64. # [01:44] <tw2113> the w3 validator?
  65. # [01:44] <jair> here is the site I am working on: www.fliksee.com
  66. # [01:44] * Joins: replore_ (~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp)
  67. # [01:45] <redheadphones> tw2113, that looks like what i want, but i would like it in an offline tool, maybe commandline or something
  68. # [01:46] <tw2113> dunno then
  69. # [01:46] <jair> I am using css for the black background and the picture I want to have it in the middle of the page whenever is open or resize the browser window adjust to the middle.
  70. # [01:48] <redheadphones> oh, log validator seems to cover it. sweet.
  71. # [01:50] * Quits: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  72. # [01:50] * Quits: robhawkes (~robhawkes@188-220-16-96.dsl.cnl.uk.net) (Quit: Leaving...)
  73. # [01:53] * Joins: devongovett (~devongove@pcp038545pcs.morro.reshall.calpoly.edu)
  74. # [01:53] * Quits: NickC_dev (~burt@rrcs-97-77-181-228.sw.biz.rr.com) (Quit: NickC_dev)
  75. # [01:57] * Joins: debsan (~debsan@190.245.74.16)
  76. # [01:58] <aitiba> localstorage goes ok on opera movile?
  77. # [02:03] * Quits: _inc (~inc@unaffiliated/-inc/x-0498339) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  78. # [02:04] * Joins: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113)
  79. # [02:04] * Joins: _inc (~inc@unaffiliated/-inc/x-0498339)
  80. # [02:09] * Quits: doug_ (~bassplaye@97-85-153-116.static.stls.mo.charter.com) (Quit: Leaving...)
  81. # [02:12] * Quits: RobLoach (~RobLoach@drupal.org/user/61114/view) (Quit: Leaving.)
  82. # [02:13] * Joins: todun (~todun@SEAS102.wlan.seas.upenn.edu)
  83. # [02:16] <todun> is it possible to preserve the an html code inside an html document? For example: <html><h1> ...<html><b>I want to preserve this block of html code</html></b>...</h1></html> ? Thanks.
  84. # [02:18] <Pomax> you've just put <html> inside <html>
  85. # [02:19] <todun> Pomax: yes. I was hoping there was a way to indicate that it is just regular text or something.
  86. # [02:20] <Pomax> so when you preserve, you mean you want it to show up verbatim, without being interpreted as html?
  87. # [02:20] <todun> Pomax: exactly!
  88. # [02:21] <Pomax> the only way I know of, off the top of my head, is to stick it in a <textarea>
  89. # [02:22] <Pomax> but it's probably a CSS property I never use, let me check
  90. # [02:22] <todun> Pomax: ok. let me try that. thanks.
  91. # [02:22] * Quits: Jayflux (~jay_knows@cpc1-dudl6-0-0-cust1981.wolv.cable.virginmedia.com) (Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com ))
  92. # [02:24] <Pomax> hm, can't find it atm.
  93. # [02:25] <todun> Pomax: np. this suffices for now. thanks.
  94. # [02:26] * Joins: hughfdjackson_ (u5307@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bwlfpnpkirziaqdo)
  95. # [02:26] * hughfdjackson_ is now known as hughfdjackson
  96. # [02:26] <Pomax> you can always style the textarea to look like it's not a texterea. And set editable to false so people can't change what you placed in it
  97. # [02:27] <todun> thanks for the pointer
  98. # [02:29] * Joins: materialdesigner (~cah276@cpe-67-255-5-62.twcny.res.rr.com)
  99. # [02:33] <todun> Pomax: using regular HTML, I used the attribute readonly="readonly". could not find editable. perhaps that is an HTML5 thing...
  100. # [02:35] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@ai126212021109.5.tik.access-internet.ne.jp)
  101. # [02:35] <Pomax> readonly works, disabled also works.
  102. # [02:35] * Joins: mike5w3c (~MikeSmith@p15181-obmd01.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
  103. # [02:37] <todun> Pomax: ok. thanks.
  104. # [02:39] * Joins: techrush (~techrush@cpe-76-175-29-57.socal.res.rr.com)
  105. # [02:41] * Quits: Jon47 (~Adium@c-67-180-11-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
  106. # [02:42] * Joins: abraxas (~abraxas@113x33x180x18.ap113.ftth.ucom.ne.jp)
  107. # [02:48] * Quits: todun (~todun@SEAS102.wlan.seas.upenn.edu) (Quit: :s)
  108. # [02:57] * Joins: Vennril (~vennril@p4FCB0261.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
  109. # [03:03] * Joins: todun_ (~todun@SEAS102.wlan.seas.upenn.edu)
  110. # [03:03] * Quits: necolas (~necolas@5e0c3818.bb.sky.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  111. # [03:03] * Joins: abstrusenick (~abstrusen@180.241.173.51)
  112. # [03:04] <abstrusenick> whats the usually app cache quita?
  113. # [03:04] <abstrusenick> *quota?
  114. # [03:09] * Quits: ldiamond (~ldiamond@bas1-montreal43-2925256794.dsl.bell.ca) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  115. # [03:10] <abraxas> abstrusenick: you mean html5 appcache, aka le manifest file? generally 5 MB on mobile devices (although ios will ask the user to allow more or not)
  116. # [03:10] <abstrusenick> yes
  117. # [03:10] <abraxas> localStorage limit is also generally 5 MB on mobile devices
  118. # [03:10] <abstrusenick> on iOS is there any hard limit?
  119. # [03:11] <abraxas> i've never hit any hard limit, but since the user will be prompted at 5 MB, you probably wanna stay below it
  120. # [03:11] <abstrusenick> if i use local storage and app cache, will it assign 5mb on each or share 5mb for both?
  121. # [03:11] <abraxas> I think android has a hard limit of 5 MB.
  122. # [03:11] <abraxas> I believe it's 5 MB each, but you may wanna verify.
  123. # [03:11] <abstrusenick> ok
  124. # [03:12] <abstrusenick> I'm building a personal information management system that allows data to be persisted offline
  125. # [03:12] <abstrusenick> do you know for large files such as images, what method is the best for offline mode?
  126. # [03:12] <abraxas> if the images don't really change, such as UI, app cache is definitely a good thing
  127. # [03:12] <abstrusenick> i believe app cache is perfect for this, but with the limit of 5mb i feel thats is way too low
  128. # [03:13] <abraxas> localStorage is utf8, so you could storage base64 encoded images in it and then load them up with canvas, but it's not very efficient.
  129. # [03:13] <abraxas> keep in mind, app cache is an all-or-nothing solution.. you add or remove 1 file, the entire cache is invalidated and all files are redownloaded
  130. # [03:13] <abstrusenick> in some browsers, localstorage has hard limit of 5mb too
  131. # [03:14] <abstrusenick> oh thats right
  132. # [03:14] <abstrusenick> so thats definitely out
  133. # [03:14] <abstrusenick> how about base64 on indexeddb or websql?
  134. # [03:15] <abstrusenick> the base64 can be added to the img src i believe
  135. # [03:15] * Joins: NickC_dev (~burt@65-36-77-202.dyn.grandenetworks.net)
  136. # [03:15] <abraxas> same story, i guess
  137. # [03:16] <abraxas> sure, it can, not very efficient, but possible
  138. # [03:16] <abstrusenick> indexeddb and websql tends to be more spacious
  139. # [03:16] <abraxas> but if you want your images to cache, why not use traditional methods?
  140. # [03:16] <abraxas> last-modified
  141. # [03:18] <abstrusenick> will that work when connection is off?
  142. # [03:18] * Joins: sasori (~sasori@acl1-719bts.gw.smartbro.net)
  143. # [03:18] <abstrusenick> on mobile i don't think that will work
  144. # [03:22] * Quits: buribu (~buribu@unaffiliated/buribu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  145. # [03:23] <abraxas> it won't, you're right
  146. # [03:23] * Joins: JonathanNeal (~Jonathan@cpe-67-49-67-212.socal.res.rr.com)
  147. # [03:23] <abraxas> use appcache for UI, stuff that's always there
  148. # [03:24] <abraxas> and mess with localStorage, etc for dynamic content
  149. # [03:24] <abraxas> that's all I can suggest
  150. # [03:24] * Parts: shichuan (~Shi_Chuan@31.205.41.171)
  151. # [03:30] * Joins: cccaldas (~cccaldas@177.41.234.60)
  152. # [03:32] * Quits: JeraldV (~jerald@199.119.234.2) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  153. # [03:33] * Joins: webguynow (~webguynow@c-24-1-222-204.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
  154. # [03:36] * Joins: JeraldV (~jerald@199.119.234.2)
  155. # [03:36] * Joins: tantek_ (~tantek@rtr.mozilla.or.jp)
  156. # [03:39] * Joins: tantek__ (~tantek@wave.mozilla.or.jp)
  157. # [03:39] * Joins: tantek___ (~tantek@rtr.mozilla.or.jp)
  158. # [03:39] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@ai126212021109.5.tik.access-internet.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  159. # [03:39] * tantek___ is now known as tantek
  160. # [03:39] * Quits: tantek_ (~tantek@rtr.mozilla.or.jp) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  161. # [03:42] * Joins: necolas (~necolas@5e0c3818.bb.sky.com)
  162. # [03:43] * Quits: tantek__ (~tantek@wave.mozilla.or.jp) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  163. # [03:47] * Quits: cccaldas (~cccaldas@177.41.234.60) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  164. # [03:57] * Quits: todun_ (~todun@SEAS102.wlan.seas.upenn.edu) (Quit: :s)
  165. # [04:02] * Joins: grantg (~chatzilla@69.88.160.3)
  166. # [04:04] * Quits: NickC_dev (~burt@65-36-77-202.dyn.grandenetworks.net) (Quit: NickC_dev)
  167. # [04:04] * Joins: pradeebv (~pradeebv@nat/yahoo/x-ikacynrleevcduio)
  168. # [04:13] * Quits: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113) (Quit: Nice Scotty, now beam my clothes up too!)
  169. # [04:14] * Joins: RobLoach (~RobLoach@drupal.org/user/61114/view)
  170. # [04:24] * Quits: grantg (~chatzilla@69.88.160.3) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 9.0.1/20111220165912])
  171. # [04:26] * Quits: aitiba (~aitiba@18.169.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) (Quit: Leaving.)
  172. # [04:27] * Joins: carboncopy (~carboncop@175.136.57.54)
  173. # [04:36] * Quits: webguynow (~webguynow@c-24-1-222-204.hsd1.il.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  174. # [04:39] * Joins: creativecitrus (~bwhite240@c-67-190-137-121.hsd1.co.comcast.net)
  175. # [04:40] * creativecitrus is now known as c_prodigy
  176. # [04:41] * Quits: dilvie (~chatzilla@c-24-23-230-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  177. # [04:46] <c_prodigy> Hello
  178. # [04:46] <c_prodigy> Is it appropriate to use the section tag for a side bar?
  179. # [04:46] <c_prodigy> or just a div?
  180. # [04:48] * Joins: dissipate (~steve@74.7.227.105)
  181. # [04:48] * Quits: dissipate (~steve@74.7.227.105) (Changing host)
  182. # [04:48] * Joins: dissipate (~steve@unaffiliated/dissipate)
  183. # [04:48] * Quits: necolas (~necolas@5e0c3818.bb.sky.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  184. # [04:50] * Quits: coeus (~coeus@dslb-084-061-060-194.pools.arcor-ip.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  185. # [04:51] <c_prodigy> anyone?
  186. # [04:53] * Joins: Vennril2 (~vennril@p4FCB0A99.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
  187. # [04:53] * Quits: Vennril (~vennril@p4FCB0261.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  188. # [04:53] * Vennril2 is now known as Vennril
  189. # [04:57] * Quits: abstrusenick (~abstrusen@180.241.173.51) (Quit: abstrusenick)
  190. # [04:57] * Joins: gavin_huang (~gravof@115.214.247.92)
  191. # [05:00] * Parts: carboncopy (~carboncop@175.136.57.54) ("Leaving")
  192. # [05:00] * Joins: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com)
  193. # [05:01] * Quits: monteslu (~monteslu@ip68-109-174-213.ph.ph.cox.net) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  194. # [05:01] * Joins: abstrusenick (~abstrusen@180.241.173.51)
  195. # [05:08] <divya> aside
  196. # [05:09] * Joins: cheilmann (~cheilmann@rtr.mozilla.or.jp)
  197. # [05:11] * Joins: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113)
  198. # [05:13] * Joins: monteslu (~monteslu@ip68-109-174-213.ph.ph.cox.net)
  199. # [05:20] * Joins: DrAwesom_ (~DrAwesome@c-71-234-86-254.hsd1.ct.comcast.net)
  200. # [05:20] * Quits: cheilmann (~cheilmann@rtr.mozilla.or.jp) (Quit: cheilmann)
  201. # [05:22] * Joins: johnkpaul (~johnkpaul@205-214-226-18.static-ip.telepacific.net)
  202. # [05:23] * Quits: DrAwesomeClaws (~DrAwesome@c-71-234-86-254.hsd1.ct.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  203. # [05:23] * Joins: bassplayerdoug (~bassplaye@97-85-153-116.static.stls.mo.charter.com)
  204. # [05:24] * Quits: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) (Quit: Reading http://davidwalsh.name)
  205. # [05:25] * Joins: cheilmann (~cheilmann@wave.mozilla.or.jp)
  206. # [05:25] * Quits: cheilmann (~cheilmann@wave.mozilla.or.jp) (Client Quit)
  207. # [05:27] * Quits: codewrangler (~codewrang@pool-72-66-12-100.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
  208. # [05:27] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@rtr.mozilla.or.jp) (Quit: tantek)
  209. # [05:36] * Quits: abstrusenick (~abstrusen@180.241.173.51) (Quit: abstrusenick)
  210. # [05:36] * Joins: phpistasty (~phpistast@74-133-96-97.dhcp.insightbb.com)
  211. # [05:39] * Quits: diogogmt (~kvirc@186.220.76.47) (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
  212. # [05:39] * Quits: c_prodigy (~bwhite240@c-67-190-137-121.hsd1.co.comcast.net) (Quit: c_prodigy)
  213. # [05:40] * Joins: icrazyhack (~horieyui@183.93.198.19)
  214. # [05:49] * Joins: dilvie (~chatzilla@c-24-23-230-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  215. # [05:52] * Quits: gavin_huang (~gravof@115.214.247.92) (Quit: Leaving)
  216. # [05:59] <phpistasty> I'm having a markup dilemma with article/section tags, anyone want to weigh in an opinion?
  217. # [06:03] * Quits: bassplayerdoug (~bassplaye@97-85-153-116.static.stls.mo.charter.com) (Quit: Leaving...)
  218. # [06:06] * Joins: shwetank (~shwetank@122.173.38.107)
  219. # [06:08] * Quits: johnkpaul (~johnkpaul@205-214-226-18.static-ip.telepacific.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  220. # [06:08] * Joins: bassplayerdoug (~bassplaye@97-85-153-116.static.stls.mo.charter.com)
  221. # [06:11] <phpistasty> Scratch it, I found a solution while reading an article that states it can contain a 'widget'
  222. # [06:13] * Quits: bassplayerdoug (~bassplaye@97-85-153-116.static.stls.mo.charter.com) (Client Quit)
  223. # [06:17] * Quits: pradeebv (~pradeebv@nat/yahoo/x-ikacynrleevcduio) (Quit: pradeebv)
  224. # [06:17] * Joins: pradeebv (~pradeebv@nat/yahoo/x-ohbdyfbydvsytdrc)
  225. # [06:19] * Quits: techrush (~techrush@cpe-76-175-29-57.socal.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  226. # [06:23] * Joins: bassplayerdoug (~bassplaye@97-85-153-116.static.stls.mo.charter.com)
  227. # [06:38] * Quits: sephr (~Eli@c-98-235-63-240.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  228. # [06:40] * Joins: pradeebv_ (~pradeebv@nat/yahoo/x-daxjsedfydmeecpu)
  229. # [06:40] * Joins: axos411 (~axos@xdsl-78-35-140-57.netcologne.de)
  230. # [06:41] * Joins: NickC_dev (~burt@cpe-70-113-87-207.austin.res.rr.com)
  231. # [06:41] * Quits: Pomax (~Pomax@64.180.151.138) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  232. # [06:41] * Parts: axos411 (~axos@xdsl-78-35-140-57.netcologne.de)
  233. # [06:42] * Quits: JeraldV (~jerald@199.119.234.2) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  234. # [06:43] * Quits: pradeebv (~pradeebv@nat/yahoo/x-ohbdyfbydvsytdrc) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  235. # [06:43] * pradeebv_ is now known as pradeebv
  236. # [06:45] * Quits: shwetank (~shwetank@122.173.38.107) (Quit: Leaving...)
  237. # [06:46] * Joins: JeraldV (~jerald@199.119.234.2)
  238. # [06:48] * Quits: Bass10 (Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Quit: Leaving)
  239. # [06:51] * Quits: dissipate (~steve@unaffiliated/dissipate) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  240. # [06:53] * Joins: dissipate (~steve@unaffiliated/dissipate)
  241. # [06:55] * Joins: dissipate_ (~steve@74.7.227.105)
  242. # [06:58] * Quits: dissipate (~steve@unaffiliated/dissipate) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  243. # [06:58] * Joins: 45PAAOFGI (~todun@SEAS102.wlan.seas.upenn.edu)
  244. # [06:58] * Quits: 45PAAOFGI (~todun@SEAS102.wlan.seas.upenn.edu) (Client Quit)
  245. # [07:00] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@EM114-48-114-235.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
  246. # [07:03] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@EM114-48-114-235.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Client Quit)
  247. # [07:03] * Quits: Vennril (~vennril@p4FCB0A99.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
  248. # [07:04] * Quits: JeraldV (~jerald@199.119.234.2) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  249. # [07:07] * Joins: Pomax (~Pomax@64.180.151.138)
  250. # [07:08] * Joins: BigKing (~BigKing@dslb-146-060-124-005.pools.arcor-ip.net)
  251. # [07:12] * Joins: dgathright (~dgathrigh@c-67-169-92-165.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  252. # [07:13] * Joins: Lars_ (~larssmit@a80-101-110-66.adsl.xs4all.nl)
  253. # [07:14] * Quits: Lars_ (~larssmit@a80-101-110-66.adsl.xs4all.nl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  254. # [07:14] * Joins: Lars_ (~larssmit@a80-101-110-66.adsl.xs4all.nl)
  255. # [07:15] * Quits: tristanseifert (~tristanse@c-67-164-14-81.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  256. # [07:16] * Quits: kadiks (~kadiks@APuteaux-652-1-255-141.w82-124.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Leaving)
  257. # [07:22] * Joins: dr0id (~andy@unaffiliated/dr0id)
  258. # [07:22] * Quits: pradeebv (~pradeebv@nat/yahoo/x-daxjsedfydmeecpu) (Quit: pradeebv)
  259. # [07:23] * Joins: intacta (~intacta@128-74-131-202.broadband.corbina.ru)
  260. # [07:26] * Quits: BigKing (~BigKing@dslb-146-060-124-005.pools.arcor-ip.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  261. # [07:26] * Joins: JonathanNeal1 (~Jonathan@cpe-67-49-67-212.socal.res.rr.com)
  262. # [07:26] * Quits: Lars_ (~larssmit@a80-101-110-66.adsl.xs4all.nl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  263. # [07:26] * Joins: Lars__ (~larssmit@a80-101-110-66.adsl.xs4all.nl)
  264. # [07:27] * Joins: fullsailor (~fullsailo@ip24-250-174-76.ga.at.cox.net)
  265. # [07:28] * Quits: JonathanNeal (~Jonathan@cpe-67-49-67-212.socal.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  266. # [07:28] * Quits: Lars__ (~larssmit@a80-101-110-66.adsl.xs4all.nl) (Client Quit)
  267. # [07:29] * Joins: pradeebv (~pradeebv@nat/yahoo/x-jdpgridoutxboenm)
  268. # [07:31] * Joins: Lars_ (~larssmit@a80-101-110-66.adsl.xs4all.nl)
  269. # [07:32] * Joins: axos411 (~axos@xdsl-78-35-140-57.netcologne.de)
  270. # [07:33] * Joins: yolin (~niloy@122.179.129.91)
  271. # [07:37] * Joins: JeraldV (~jerald@199.119.234.2)
  272. # [07:38] * Quits: yolin (~niloy@122.179.129.91) (Remote host closed the connection)
  273. # [07:40] * Joins: niloy_ (~niloy@122.179.129.91)
  274. # [07:41] * Quits: obert- (~obert@host68-206-dynamic.47-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  275. # [07:42] * Joins: obert- (~obert@host68-206-dynamic.47-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
  276. # [07:43] * Quits: bassplayerdoug (~bassplaye@97-85-153-116.static.stls.mo.charter.com) (Quit: Leaving...)
  277. # [07:45] * Joins: decthomas (decthomas@nat/netlash/x-xbrsnwavkudjlfkn)
  278. # [07:46] * Joins: drublic (~drublic@vpn7.hotsplots.net)
  279. # [07:46] * Quits: decthomas (decthomas@nat/netlash/x-xbrsnwavkudjlfkn) (Client Quit)
  280. # [07:46] * Parts: intacta (~intacta@128-74-131-202.broadband.corbina.ru)
  281. # [07:49] * Quits: moshee (~moshee@unaffiliated/moshee) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  282. # [07:49] * Joins: moshee (~moshee@unaffiliated/moshee)
  283. # [07:50] * Quits: teleject (~christoph@cpe-72-177-94-231.austin.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  284. # [07:56] * Quits: intellilogic (~intellilo@static-96-241-182-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
  285. # [07:56] * Quits: NickC_dev (~burt@cpe-70-113-87-207.austin.res.rr.com) (Quit: NickC_dev)
  286. # [07:56] * Joins: deasy (~deasy@85.201.207.128)
  287. # [07:59] * Quits: icrazyhack (~horieyui@183.93.198.19) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  288. # [08:00] * Joins: icrazyhack (~horieyui@183.60.101.86)
  289. # [08:01] * Joins: decthomas (decthomas@nat/netlash/x-zudvfjmqwzplhqlk)
  290. # [08:03] * Quits: doritoDan (~doritoDan@unaffiliated/doritodan) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  291. # [08:04] * Joins: horieyui (~horieyui@183.93.198.19)
  292. # [08:04] * Quits: icrazyhack (~horieyui@183.60.101.86) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  293. # [08:05] * Quits: dissipate_ (~steve@74.7.227.105) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  294. # [08:08] * Joins: jetienne (~jerome@ivr94-6-82-230-255-246.fbx.proxad.net)
  295. # [08:09] * Quits: materialdesigner (~cah276@cpe-67-255-5-62.twcny.res.rr.com) (Quit: materialdesigner)
  296. # [08:12] * Quits: niloy_ (~niloy@122.179.129.91) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  297. # [08:16] * Joins: xec (~xec@188.95.241.142)
  298. # [08:16] * Quits: pradeebv (~pradeebv@nat/yahoo/x-jdpgridoutxboenm) (Quit: pradeebv)
  299. # [08:17] * Quits: patcito (~123@190.237.228.11) (Remote host closed the connection)
  300. # [08:18] * Quits: Lars_ (~larssmit@a80-101-110-66.adsl.xs4all.nl) (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi)
  301. # [08:27] * Quits: JonathanNeal1 (~Jonathan@cpe-67-49-67-212.socal.res.rr.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
  302. # [08:30] * Joins: roel_ (~quassel@d54C236E3.access.telenet.be)
  303. # [08:35] * Quits: RobLoach (~RobLoach@drupal.org/user/61114/view) (Quit: Leaving.)
  304. # [08:38] * Parts: dr0id (~andy@unaffiliated/dr0id)
  305. # [08:41] * Quits: drublic (~drublic@vpn7.hotsplots.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  306. # [08:41] * Quits: mike5w3c (~MikeSmith@p15181-obmd01.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) (Quit: mike5w3c)
  307. # [08:45] * Joins: shwetank (~shwetank@122.173.38.107)
  308. # [08:46] * Joins: glcrazy (~SiRiuS@rdslink-v90-211.suceava.rdsnet.ro)
  309. # [08:46] * Joins: gyzmodo (x@89.146.108.109)
  310. # [08:46] * Quits: jochen__ (jochen@nat/google/x-fyusjlixicjytapo) (Remote host closed the connection)
  311. # [08:46] * Joins: jochen__ (jochen@nat/google/x-hvhzaipsgfaeiyyc)
  312. # [08:50] * Quits: shwetank (~shwetank@122.173.38.107) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  313. # [08:51] * Joins: kevindougans (~kevindoug@106.Red-213-96-89.staticIP.rima-tde.net)
  314. # [08:54] * Joins: simenbrekken (~simenbrek@77.40.186.130)
  315. # [08:56] * Joins: bot-t1 (~bot-t@unaffiliated/temp01/bot/bot-t)
  316. # [08:56] * Quits: bot-t (~bot-t@unaffiliated/temp01/bot/bot-t) (Disconnected by services)
  317. # [08:56] * Quits: bot-t1 (~bot-t@unaffiliated/temp01/bot/bot-t) (Excess Flood)
  318. # [08:57] * Joins: sedovsek (robert.sed@93-103-104-107.dynamic.t-2.net)
  319. # [09:00] * Joins: shwetank (~shwetank@122.173.38.107)
  320. # [09:01] * Quits: simenbrekken (~simenbrek@77.40.186.130) (Remote host closed the connection)
  321. # [09:01] * Joins: simenbrekken (~simenbrek@77.40.186.130)
  322. # [09:03] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@i118-21-136-4.s30.a048.ap.plala.or.jp)
  323. # [09:07] * Quits: replore_ (~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  324. # [09:09] * Joins: memoryleak (~memorylea@fw.resource.ch)
  325. # [09:10] * Joins: doritoDan (~doritoDan@unaffiliated/doritodan)
  326. # [09:11] * Quits: |PiP| (~PiP@CPE68efbdb817c9-CM0011aea71a92.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  327. # [09:11] * Joins: mike5w3c (~MikeSmith@p15181-obmd01.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
  328. # [09:14] * Joins: bot-t (~bot-t@unaffiliated/temp01/bot/bot-t)
  329. # [09:15] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@i118-21-136-4.s30.a048.ap.plala.or.jp) (Quit: tantek)
  330. # [09:20] * Quits: insin (~insin@host109-153-223-163.range109-153.btcentralplus.com) (Quit: What's the point in giving us haaaaannnds?)
  331. # [09:21] * Joins: kas187 (~kas187@cpc9-sotn11-2-0-cust242.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com)
  332. # [09:21] * Joins: keithclarkcouk (~keithclar@84.19.53.21)
  333. # [09:22] * Joins: tsatse (~tsatse@2a01:e35:8b7c:5310:21a:73ff:fe8d:5cbe)
  334. # [09:24] * Joins: niloy (~niloy@122.179.129.91)
  335. # [09:24] * Quits: kas187 (~kas187@cpc9-sotn11-2-0-cust242.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com) (Quit: kas187)
  336. # [09:25] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.181.127.125)
  337. # [09:25] * Joins: kas187 (~kas187@cpc9-sotn11-2-0-cust242.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com)
  338. # [09:25] * Quits: kas187 (~kas187@cpc9-sotn11-2-0-cust242.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com) (Client Quit)
  339. # [09:26] * Joins: kas187 (~kas187@cpc9-sotn11-2-0-cust242.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com)
  340. # [09:26] * Quits: kas187 (~kas187@cpc9-sotn11-2-0-cust242.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com) (Client Quit)
  341. # [09:26] * Joins: kas187 (~kas187@cpc9-sotn11-2-0-cust242.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com)
  342. # [09:26] * Quits: kas187 (~kas187@cpc9-sotn11-2-0-cust242.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com) (Client Quit)
  343. # [09:27] * Joins: bibo360 (~bibo360@159.71.64.86.rev.sfr.net)
  344. # [09:27] * Joins: kas187 (~kas187@cpc9-sotn11-2-0-cust242.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com)
  345. # [09:33] * Joins: pocopina (~pocopina@li298-99.members.linode.com)
  346. # [09:33] * Joins: aesptux (~aesptux@213.37.205.217.dyn.user.ono.com)
  347. # [09:38] * Joins: Trisox (~Trisox@dw87236798.amsterdam-tc.dataweb.net)
  348. # [09:39] * Quits: niloy (~niloy@122.179.129.91) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  349. # [09:40] * Joins: beevits (~beeviz@78.47.226.217)
  350. # [09:41] * Joins: johnoxton (~johnoxton@nat/canonical/x-jzqwojtjlgmxhtan)
  351. # [09:42] * Quits: johnoxton (~johnoxton@nat/canonical/x-jzqwojtjlgmxhtan) (Client Quit)
  352. # [09:43] * Joins: shaDykhan (~shaDykhan@c-67-184-85-179.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
  353. # [09:43] * Joins: johnoxton (~johnoxton@nat/canonical/x-podxydnwcknwwtnh)
  354. # [09:43] * Quits: shaDykhan (~shaDykhan@c-67-184-85-179.hsd1.il.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  355. # [09:45] * Joins: shaDykhan (~shaDykhan@c-67-184-85-179.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
  356. # [09:45] * Quits: dgathright (~dgathrigh@c-67-169-92-165.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: dgathright)
  357. # [09:48] * Joins: mishunov (~spliter@77.88.72.162)
  358. # [09:50] * Joins: whitman (whitman@itsad-034.its.dur.ac.uk)
  359. # [09:50] * Joins: Jonadabe (~Jonadabe@bl8-127-141.dsl.telepac.pt)
  360. # [09:51] * Joins: niloy (~niloy@122.179.129.91)
  361. # [10:01] * Quits: niloy (~niloy@122.179.129.91) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  362. # [10:01] * Joins: PalleZingmark (~Adium@217.13.228.226)
  363. # [10:04] * Quits: gniourf_gniourf (~Gniourf@2a01:e35:2433:3b90:222:41ff:fe23:8d8e) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  364. # [10:05] * Joins: jacobolu_ (~jacobolus@50-0-133-210.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  365. # [10:05] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@50-0-133-210.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Read error: No route to host)
  366. # [10:06] * Quits: horieyui (~horieyui@183.93.198.19) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  367. # [10:06] * Joins: palehorse (~palehorse@46.235.233.46)
  368. # [10:07] * Quits: Jonadabe (~Jonadabe@bl8-127-141.dsl.telepac.pt) (Read error: No route to host)
  369. # [10:07] * Quits: doritoDan (~doritoDan@unaffiliated/doritodan) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  370. # [10:08] * Quits: beevits (~beeviz@78.47.226.217) (Remote host closed the connection)
  371. # [10:12] * Joins: doritoDan (~doritoDan@unaffiliated/doritodan)
  372. # [10:14] * Quits: glcrazy (~SiRiuS@rdslink-v90-211.suceava.rdsnet.ro) (Remote host closed the connection)
  373. # [10:16] * Quits: dilvie (~chatzilla@c-24-23-230-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  374. # [10:21] * Joins: gavin_huang (~gravof@115.214.247.92)
  375. # [10:21] * Joins: robhawkes (~robhawkes@188-220-16-96.dsl.cnl.uk.net)
  376. # [10:22] * Joins: bassplayerdoug (~bassplaye@97-85-153-116.static.stls.mo.charter.com)
  377. # [10:24] * Quits: devongovett (~devongove@pcp038545pcs.morro.reshall.calpoly.edu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  378. # [10:24] * Joins: adrinux (~adrinux@93.89.134.219)
  379. # [10:24] * Joins: devongovett (~devongove@pcp038545pcs.morro.reshall.calpoly.edu)
  380. # [10:27] * Parts: adrinux (~adrinux@93.89.134.219)
  381. # [10:28] * Quits: devongovett (~devongove@pcp038545pcs.morro.reshall.calpoly.edu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  382. # [10:28] * Joins: devongovett (~devongove@pcp038545pcs.morro.reshall.calpoly.edu)
  383. # [10:29] * Joins: Jonadabe (~Jonadabe@bl8-127-141.dsl.telepac.pt)
  384. # [10:32] * Joins: JakeA (~Adium@93-97-17-15.zone5.bethere.co.uk)
  385. # [10:32] * Quits: devongovett (~devongove@pcp038545pcs.morro.reshall.calpoly.edu) (Client Quit)
  386. # [10:42] * Joins: manuchill (~mstalfoor@83.232.96.217)
  387. # [10:46] * Joins: unknown_had (~unknown@unaffiliated/unknown-had/x-1628802)
  388. # [10:46] * Parts: unknown_had (~unknown@unaffiliated/unknown-had/x-1628802) ("Leaving")
  389. # [10:56] * Joins: Stava (~Stava@ip232-rld-sdt.tyfon.se)
  390. # [10:57] * Joins: hemm (~hemm@132.252.112.133)
  391. # [10:59] * Quits: hemm (~hemm@132.252.112.133) (Remote host closed the connection)
  392. # [10:59] * Joins: hemm (~hemm@132.252.112.133)
  393. # [11:05] * Quits: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113) (Quit: Hi, I'm a quit message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over the world of IRC.)
  394. # [11:13] * Joins: bittyx-work (~User@unaffiliated/bittyx)
  395. # [11:13] * Joins: thec13 (~thec@ip68-98-45-81.ph.ph.cox.net)
  396. # [11:18] <bittyx-work> hi! can anyone point me to a list of valid characters that can be inserted <meta name="description" content="***HERE***" /> ? (list/definition/anything will do)
  397. # [11:19] <moo^_^> bittyx-work: all HTML attribute characters are valid
  398. # [11:20] * Quits: keithclarkcouk (~keithclar@84.19.53.21) (Remote host closed the connection)
  399. # [11:21] <bittyx-work> moo^_^: is that this (from the reference): Attribute values are a mixture of text and character references, except with the additional restriction that the text cannot contain an ambiguous ampersand. ?
  400. # [11:22] <moo^_^> bittyx-work: sounds right
  401. # [11:22] <moo^_^> everything but not "
  402. # [11:23] <bittyx-work> i'm actually wondering whether this would be okay: <meta name="description" content=" />" /> - in this case, the content would be correctly parsed as a space, a slash, and a greater-than sign, or should that be written as <meta nem="description content=" /&gt;" /> ?
  403. # [11:23] <bittyx-work> ie. are both valid according to the standard? (i can't seem to find that)
  404. # [11:24] <moo^_^> you don't need to escape < inside attributes
  405. # [11:24] <moo^_^> bittyx-work: and you can quickly test with any online HTML validator
  406. # [11:24] * Quits: s_segawa (~s_segawa@221x251x236x110.ap221.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) (Quit: Leaving...)
  407. # [11:24] <bittyx-work> moo^_^: oh, cool. thank you very much.
  408. # [11:25] * Joins: tobyx (~tobyx@fsf/member/tobyx)
  409. # [11:30] * Quits: thec13 (~thec@ip68-98-45-81.ph.ph.cox.net) (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi)
  410. # [11:32] * Joins: cccaldas (~cccaldas@177.40.220.55)
  411. # [11:36] * Joins: sean` (~seankoole@D97A9E4C.cm-3-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  412. # [11:40] * Joins: andrewjbaker (~ajb@ip-81-23-63-2.ask4internet.com)
  413. # [11:42] * Quits: obert- (~obert@host68-206-dynamic.47-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
  414. # [11:45] * Quits: shaDykhan (~shaDykhan@c-67-184-85-179.hsd1.il.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  415. # [11:47] * Quits: cccaldas (~cccaldas@177.40.220.55) (Quit: Lost terminal)
  416. # [11:54] * Joins: howlymowly (~quassel@tubsat.fb12.tu-berlin.de)
  417. # [11:57] * Joins: obert- (~obert@host238-207-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
  418. # [11:58] * Quits: bot-t (~bot-t@unaffiliated/temp01/bot/bot-t) (Disconnected by services)
  419. # [11:58] * Joins: bot-t1 (~bot-t@unaffiliated/temp01/bot/bot-t)
  420. # [11:58] * Quits: bot-t1 (~bot-t@unaffiliated/temp01/bot/bot-t) (Excess Flood)
  421. # [11:58] * Quits: JNZ (JNZ@unaffiliated/jnz) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  422. # [11:58] * Quits: temp02 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  423. # [11:58] * Joins: cccaldas (~cccaldas@177.40.220.55)
  424. # [11:59] * Joins: nonge_ (~nonge@p5082BBF8.dip.t-dialin.net)
  425. # [12:00] * Joins: cheilmann_ (~cheilmann@softbank219215198166.bbtec.net)
  426. # [12:01] * Joins: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01)
  427. # [12:01] * Joins: bot-t (~bot-t@unaffiliated/temp01/bot/bot-t)
  428. # [12:02] * Quits: nonge (~nonge@p5B326BB5.dip.t-dialin.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  429. # [12:03] * Joins: shaDykhan (~shaDykhan@c-67-184-85-179.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
  430. # [12:05] * Quits: mishunov (~spliter@77.88.72.162) (Quit: mishunov)
  431. # [12:05] * Quits: kas187 (~kas187@cpc9-sotn11-2-0-cust242.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com) (Quit: kas187)
  432. # [12:06] * Quits: bittyx-work (~User@unaffiliated/bittyx) (Quit: Leaving)
  433. # [12:12] * Joins: sephr (~Eli@c-98-235-63-240.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
  434. # [12:12] * Quits: cheilmann_ (~cheilmann@softbank219215198166.bbtec.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  435. # [12:18] * Quits: shaDykhan (~shaDykhan@c-67-184-85-179.hsd1.il.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  436. # [12:18] * Quits: mike5w3c (~MikeSmith@p15181-obmd01.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) (Quit: mike5w3c)
  437. # [12:26] * Joins: sanbar (~ScottSanb@unaffiliated/scottsanbar)
  438. # [12:27] * Quits: abraxas (~abraxas@113x33x180x18.ap113.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) (Remote host closed the connection)
  439. # [12:27] * Joins: bot-t1 (~bot-t@unaffiliated/temp01/bot/bot-t)
  440. # [12:27] * Quits: bot-t (~bot-t@unaffiliated/temp01/bot/bot-t) (Disconnected by services)
  441. # [12:27] * Quits: bot-t1 (~bot-t@unaffiliated/temp01/bot/bot-t) (Excess Flood)
  442. # [12:28] * Joins: bot-t (~bot-t@unaffiliated/temp01/bot/bot-t)
  443. # [12:28] * Quits: bot-t (~bot-t@unaffiliated/temp01/bot/bot-t) (Excess Flood)
  444. # [12:29] * Quits: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  445. # [12:29] * Joins: temp02 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01)
  446. # [12:30] * Joins: bot-t (~bot-t@unaffiliated/temp01/bot/bot-t)
  447. # [12:33] * Joins: LongBeach (~mike@AFontenayssB-152-1-11-228.w82-121.abo.wanadoo.fr)
  448. # [12:38] * Quits: bassplayerdoug (~bassplaye@97-85-153-116.static.stls.mo.charter.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  449. # [12:38] * Joins: doug- (~bassplaye@97-85-153-116.static.stls.mo.charter.com)
  450. # [12:38] * Quits: moshee (~moshee@unaffiliated/moshee) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  451. # [12:38] * Joins: moshee (~moshee@unaffiliated/moshee)
  452. # [12:42] * Joins: mishunov (~spliter@77.88.72.162)
  453. # [12:47] * Joins: danielfilho (~daniel@187.31.77.7)
  454. # [12:53] * Quits: FireFly (~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly) (Excess Flood)
  455. # [12:54] * Joins: FireFly (~firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com)
  456. # [12:55] * Quits: _inc (~inc@unaffiliated/-inc/x-0498339) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
  457. # [12:55] * Joins: _inc (~inc@unaffiliated/-inc/x-0498339)
  458. # [12:58] * Joins: necolas (~necolas@5e0c3818.bb.sky.com)
  459. # [13:01] * Joins: sean`` (~seankoole@D97A9E4C.cm-3-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  460. # [13:01] * Quits: sean` (~seankoole@D97A9E4C.cm-3-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  461. # [13:04] * Joins: shaDykhan (~shaDykhan@c-67-184-85-179.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
  462. # [13:04] * Quits: shaDykhan (~shaDykhan@c-67-184-85-179.hsd1.il.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  463. # [13:09] * Joins: shaDykhan (~shaDykhan@c-67-184-85-179.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
  464. # [13:11] * Joins: hciftci (~memorylea@fw.resource.ch)
  465. # [13:11] * Quits: hciftci (~memorylea@fw.resource.ch) (Client Quit)
  466. # [13:13] * Quits: memoryleak (~memorylea@fw.resource.ch) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  467. # [13:14] * Quits: axos411 (~axos@xdsl-78-35-140-57.netcologne.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  468. # [13:15] * Quits: shaDykhan (~shaDykhan@c-67-184-85-179.hsd1.il.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  469. # [13:16] * Joins: axos411 (~axos@xdsl-78-35-155-187.netcologne.de)
  470. # [13:24] * Quits: dmachi1 (~dmachi@pool-72-66-209-165.ronkva.east.verizon.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  471. # [13:24] * Joins: dmachi (~dmachi@pool-72-66-209-165.ronkva.east.verizon.net)
  472. # [13:25] * Joins: T-Baggin (~benv@99-7-171-41.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
  473. # [13:28] * Quits: benv (~benv@99-7-171-41.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  474. # [13:28] * Quits: pocopina (~pocopina@li298-99.members.linode.com) (Quit: Leaving)
  475. # [13:31] * Joins: pocopina (~pocopina@li298-99.members.linode.com)
  476. # [13:33] * Joins: pocopina_ (u5310@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xkpoftxpgiqekwhp)
  477. # [13:39] * Quits: pocopina (~pocopina@li298-99.members.linode.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  478. # [13:39] * pocopina_ is now known as pocopina
  479. # [13:39] * Joins: galfert (~galfert@i59F7B502.versanet.de)
  480. # [13:42] * Joins: djazz (~djazz@static-212.214.85.166.addr.tdcsong.se)
  481. # [13:59] * Joins: dr0id (~andy@unaffiliated/dr0id)
  482. # [13:59] * Quits: dr0id (~andy@unaffiliated/dr0id) (Client Quit)
  483. # [13:59] * Quits: mishunov (~spliter@77.88.72.162) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  484. # [13:59] * Joins: kas187 (~kas187@exchange-02.abasoft.co.uk)
  485. # [14:00] * Joins: mishunov (~spliter@77.88.72.162)
  486. # [14:01] * Quits: jetienne (~jerome@ivr94-6-82-230-255-246.fbx.proxad.net) (Quit: i love javascript and webgl. see http://pacmaze.com)
  487. # [14:01] * Joins: jetienne (~jerome@ivr94-6-82-230-255-246.fbx.proxad.net)
  488. # [14:04] * Joins: serroba (~serroba@190-20-220-58.baf.movistar.cl)
  489. # [14:08] * Joins: serroba_ (~serroba@190-20-243-232.baf.movistar.cl)
  490. # [14:10] * Quits: serroba (~serroba@190-20-220-58.baf.movistar.cl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  491. # [14:12] * Joins: Hopsy (~kvirc@188.206.47.42)
  492. # [14:13] * Joins: mike5w3c (~MikeSmith@p15181-obmd01.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
  493. # [14:14] * Quits: debsan (~debsan@190.245.74.16) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  494. # [14:15] * Joins: debsan (~debsan@190.245.74.16)
  495. # [14:16] * Quits: hemm (~hemm@132.252.112.133) (Remote host closed the connection)
  496. # [14:16] * Joins: memoryleak (~memorylea@fw.resource.ch)
  497. # [14:16] * Joins: sean` (~seankoole@D97A9E4C.cm-3-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  498. # [14:17] * Joins: hemm (~hemm@dhcp-ce112133.wt.uni-duisburg-essen.de)
  499. # [14:17] * Joins: digitalfiz (~fiz@unaffiliated/digitalfiz)
  500. # [14:18] * Quits: sean`` (~seankoole@D97A9E4C.cm-3-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  501. # [14:20] * Joins: Hopsy|2 (~kvirc@77.63.180.232)
  502. # [14:20] * Quits: debsan (~debsan@190.245.74.16) (Max SendQ exceeded)
  503. # [14:21] * Joins: debsan (~debsan@190.245.74.16)
  504. # [14:23] * Quits: Hopsy (~kvirc@188.206.47.42) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  505. # [14:24] * Joins: erichynds (~ehynds@venkman.brightcove.com)
  506. # [14:29] * Quits: sephr (~Eli@c-98-235-63-240.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  507. # [14:31] * Joins: plh_ (~plh@209-6-123-224.c3-0.arl-ubr1.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com)
  508. # [14:33] * Quits: msponge (~msponge@18.189.103.48) (Quit: msponge)
  509. # [14:33] * Quits: serroba_ (~serroba@190-20-243-232.baf.movistar.cl) (Remote host closed the connection)
  510. # [14:35] * Joins: ryan_tait (~ryan_tait@209.47.38.69)
  511. # [14:38] * Joins: keithclarkcouk (~keithclar@84.19.53.21)
  512. # [14:39] * Joins: codewrangler (~codewrang@pool-72-66-12-100.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
  513. # [14:39] * Quits: deasy (~deasy@85.201.207.128) (Quit: Nom d'un quark, c'est Edmonton!)
  514. # [14:41] * Joins: beevits (~beeviz@78.47.226.217)
  515. # [14:46] <kas187> using native html5 form validation, is there a way to test a group of elements, for example a mandatory question with a set of radio buttons as options http://jsfiddle.net/SqufK/5/
  516. # [14:48] <kas187> I'm not sure if i'll have to use javascript for that scenario
  517. # [14:54] * Parts: djazz (~djazz@static-212.214.85.166.addr.tdcsong.se)
  518. # [14:54] * Quits: necolas (~necolas@5e0c3818.bb.sky.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  519. # [14:57] * Joins: devmikey (~irc@unaffiliated/devmikey)
  520. # [14:58] * Quits: aesptux (~aesptux@213.37.205.217.dyn.user.ono.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  521. # [14:58] * Joins: johnkpaul (~johnkpaul@205-214-226-18.static-ip.telepacific.net)
  522. # [14:59] * Joins: squeakytoy (hidden-use@ns.netset.se)
  523. # [15:00] * nonge_ is now known as nonge
  524. # [15:06] * Quits: moshee (~moshee@unaffiliated/moshee) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  525. # [15:06] * Joins: moshee (~moshee@c-50-135-229-127.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  526. # [15:06] * Quits: moshee (~moshee@c-50-135-229-127.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Changing host)
  527. # [15:06] * Joins: moshee (~moshee@unaffiliated/moshee)
  528. # [15:07] * Joins: msponge (~msponge@18.189.103.48)
  529. # [15:10] * Quits: OzDave_imac (~OzDave@27-33-43-79.static.tpgi.com.au) (Quit: OzDave_imac)
  530. # [15:12] * Joins: johnoxton_ (~johnoxton@nat/canonical/x-tiernumkjsuhiwvh)
  531. # [15:12] * Quits: kevindougans (~kevindoug@106.Red-213-96-89.staticIP.rima-tde.net) (Quit: kevindougans)
  532. # [15:13] * Joins: Vennril (~vennril@p4FCB0A99.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
  533. # [15:13] * Quits: johnoxton (~johnoxton@nat/canonical/x-podxydnwcknwwtnh) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  534. # [15:14] <jetienne> question about .querySelector()... does this traverse the DOM depth-first or width-first ?
  535. # [15:17] * Joins: TomCl (~tom@d54C024EB.access.telenet.be)
  536. # [15:17] * Quits: TomCl (~tom@d54C024EB.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
  537. # [15:19] * Joins: deasy (~deasy@85.201.207.128)
  538. # [15:21] * Quits: beevits (~beeviz@78.47.226.217) (Remote host closed the connection)
  539. # [15:23] <ryan_tait> depth first
  540. # [15:31] * Joins: aesptux (~aesptux@213.37.205.217.dyn.user.ono.com)
  541. # [15:32] * Joins: RobLoach (~RobLoach@drupal.org/user/61114/view)
  542. # [15:33] * Joins: ericduran (~ericduran@cpe-68-175-80-234.nyc.res.rr.com)
  543. # [15:33] <moo^_^> jetienne: right to left
  544. # [15:34] <jetienne> ryan_tait: thanks
  545. # [15:34] <jetienne> moo^_^: what do you mean right to left ?
  546. # [15:34] <jetienne> moo^_^: i mean a tree, as data structure, has no right or left. can you explain ?
  547. # [15:34] <moo^_^> yes
  548. # [15:34] <moo^_^> one second
  549. # [15:34] <jetienne> ok
  550. # [15:36] <moo^_^> jetienne: https://twitter.com/#!/moo9000/status/154882466455363584 querySelector() follows the same rules as CSS processing
  551. # [15:36] <socialhapy> ★ Tweet from moo9000: Optimizing CSS with a #opera profiler http://t.co/4Zb3yl2d - save hundreds of milliseconds in page loading times #web #dev #html5 ★ http://bit.ly/wBCPbM
  552. # [15:36] * Quits: FireFly (~firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com) (Excess Flood)
  553. # [15:36] <moo^_^> at least based on consensus on this channel :)
  554. # [15:37] <jetienne> oh ok :)
  555. # [15:37] <jetienne> you mean to read the selector, not to crawl the tree
  556. # [15:37] <jetienne> moo^_^: got it thanks
  557. # [15:37] <moo^_^> ah
  558. # [15:37] * Joins: FireFly (~firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com)
  559. # [15:38] <moo^_^> sorry
  560. # [15:38] <moo^_^> you meant the resulting tree output?
  561. # [15:38] <jetienne> moo^_^: yes
  562. # [15:38] <ryan_tait> jetienne: yw the w3c selectors api states depth-first pre-order traversal of the DOM tree or subtree in question
  563. # [15:38] <jetienne> ryan_tait: ok. pre-order means what ?
  564. # [15:39] * jetienne is coding a dom selector ala css
  565. # [15:40] <ryan_tait> jetienne: the order in which the start tags occur in the text representation of the document
  566. # [15:40] <ryan_tait> just quoting w3c :)
  567. # [15:41] <jetienne> ryan_tait: got it :)
  568. # [15:44] <moo^_^> ryan_tait, the talking spec :)
  569. # [15:44] <ryan_tait> lol I really know nothing
  570. # [15:45] <ryan_tait> i just speak the wisdom of the docs
  571. # [15:45] * Joins: ldiamond (~ldiamond@bas1-montreal43-2925256794.dsl.bell.ca)
  572. # [15:45] * Joins: rupl (~anonymous@cpe-66-25-171-137.austin.res.rr.com)
  573. # [15:53] * Quits: socialhapy (~socialhap@46-38-167-162.static.cloud-ips.co.uk) (Remote host closed the connection)
  574. # [15:53] * Joins: socialhapy (~socialhap@46-38-167-162.static.cloud-ips.co.uk)
  575. # [15:54] * Joins: coeus (~coeus@dslb-084-061-060-194.pools.arcor-ip.net)
  576. # [15:54] * Joins: tmds (~tmds@gateway/tor-sasl/tmds)
  577. # [15:56] * Joins: adrinux (~adrinux@93.89.134.219)
  578. # [15:57] * Quits: memoryleak (~memorylea@fw.resource.ch) (Quit: memoryleak)
  579. # [15:57] * Joins: johnoxton (~johnoxton@nat/canonical/x-kqttpcrjbpljjtug)
  580. # [15:58] * Quits: johnoxton (~johnoxton@nat/canonical/x-kqttpcrjbpljjtug) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  581. # [15:58] * Joins: johnoxton (~johnoxton@nat/canonical/x-czvrboafdlqogkxo)
  582. # [15:59] * Quits: johnoxton_ (~johnoxton@nat/canonical/x-tiernumkjsuhiwvh) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  583. # [15:59] * Parts: adrinux (~adrinux@93.89.134.219)
  584. # [16:00] * Quits: galfert (~galfert@i59F7B502.versanet.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  585. # [16:00] * Joins: blackjid (~jidonoso@pc-120-163-47-190.cm.vtr.net)
  586. # [16:01] * Joins: galfert (~galfert@i59F7B502.versanet.de)
  587. # [16:04] * Joins: sedovsek` (robert.sed@93-103-104-107.dynamic.t-2.net)
  588. # [16:04] * Quits: mishunov (~spliter@77.88.72.162) (Quit: mishunov)
  589. # [16:06] * Quits: sedovsek (robert.sed@93-103-104-107.dynamic.t-2.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  590. # [16:13] * Quits: rupl (~anonymous@cpe-66-25-171-137.austin.res.rr.com) (Quit: rupl)
  591. # [16:15] * Parts: ldiamond (~ldiamond@bas1-montreal43-2925256794.dsl.bell.ca) ("Leaving")
  592. # [16:16] * Quits: tmds (~tmds@gateway/tor-sasl/tmds) (Quit: Leaving)
  593. # [16:20] * Joins: MisterSpeaker (~MisterSpe@zenexity.pck.nerim.net)
  594. # [16:22] * Quits: phpistasty (~phpistast@74-133-96-97.dhcp.insightbb.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  595. # [16:23] * Joins: iamdustan (~DustanKas@rrcs-70-61-101-162.midsouth.biz.rr.com)
  596. # [16:27] * Joins: bribroder (~bribroder@unaffiliated/bribroder)
  597. # [16:32] * Joins: gavinsmith (~gavinsmit@CPEe05fb90cc8fb-CM00222ddfdbcd.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
  598. # [16:34] * Quits: keithclarkcouk (~keithclar@84.19.53.21) (Remote host closed the connection)
  599. # [16:35] * Joins: rupl (anonymous@rrcs-24-173-111-218.sw.biz.rr.com)
  600. # [16:36] * Quits: FireFly (~firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com) (Excess Flood)
  601. # [16:40] * Joins: FireFly (~firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com)
  602. # [16:40] * Joins: Po{teaLOL (~Pomax@64.180.151.138)
  603. # [16:41] * Joins: Lars_ (~larssmit@84.241.204.180)
  604. # [16:41] * Quits: Pomax (~Pomax@64.180.151.138) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  605. # [16:41] * Quits: gavin_huang (~gravof@115.214.247.92) (Quit: Leaving)
  606. # [16:42] * Quits: simenbrekken (~simenbrek@77.40.186.130) (Remote host closed the connection)
  607. # [16:44] * Joins: techrush (~techrush@cpe-76-175-29-57.socal.res.rr.com)
  608. # [16:49] * Quits: debsan (~debsan@190.245.74.16) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  609. # [16:49] * Quits: msponge (~msponge@18.189.103.48) (Quit: msponge)
  610. # [16:50] * Quits: decthomas (decthomas@nat/netlash/x-zudvfjmqwzplhqlk) (Quit: decthomas)
  611. # [17:02] * Joins: debsan (~debsan@190.245.74.16)
  612. # [17:02] * Quits: kobsu (kobsu@hilla.kapsi.fi) (Quit: leaving)
  613. # [17:02] * Joins: mantas322 (c0cb7a65@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.203.122.101)
  614. # [17:02] <mantas322> my local storage has an issue with < and >
  615. # [17:02] <mantas322> says unexpected blah blah blah
  616. # [17:02] * Quits: monteslu (~monteslu@ip68-109-174-213.ph.ph.cox.net) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  617. # [17:06] * Quits: techrush (~techrush@cpe-76-175-29-57.socal.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  618. # [17:06] * Quits: johnkpaul (~johnkpaul@205-214-226-18.static-ip.telepacific.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  619. # [17:07] <mantas322> nevermind
  620. # [17:07] * Quits: debsan (~debsan@190.245.74.16) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  621. # [17:09] * Quits: roel_ (~quassel@d54C236E3.access.telenet.be) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  622. # [17:09] * Quits: Trisox (~Trisox@dw87236798.amsterdam-tc.dataweb.net) (Quit: Leaving...)
  623. # [17:10] * Joins: Hopsy (~kvirc@77.62.3.130)
  624. # [17:10] * Joins: Ron_D (~Chevalric@5355A4C1.cm-6-6c.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  625. # [17:12] * Joins: NickC_dev (~burt@cpe-70-113-87-207.austin.res.rr.com)
  626. # [17:12] * Joins: techrush (~techrush@cpe-76-175-29-57.socal.res.rr.com)
  627. # [17:12] * Quits: Hopsy|2 (~kvirc@77.63.180.232) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  628. # [17:12] * Quits: techrush (~techrush@cpe-76-175-29-57.socal.res.rr.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  629. # [17:14] * Joins: monteslu (~monteslu@ip68-109-174-213.ph.ph.cox.net)
  630. # [17:17] * Quits: remysharp (u4345@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zfytypfjzpcnhtyt) (Excess Flood)
  631. # [17:17] * Quits: tiglionabbit (u2654@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zqvgiypgkogzscea) (Max SendQ exceeded)
  632. # [17:17] * Joins: remysharp (u4345@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tpwjehwhgfqgxzqv)
  633. # [17:17] * Joins: tiglionabbit (u2654@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sujyqimtbgwrrtsu)
  634. # [17:18] * Quits: Ron_D (~Chevalric@5355A4C1.cm-6-6c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Quit: Ron_D)
  635. # [17:21] * Joins: Ron_D (~Chevalric@5355A4C1.cm-6-6c.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
  636. # [17:21] * Quits: Ron_D (~Chevalric@5355A4C1.cm-6-6c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Client Quit)
  637. # [17:22] * Quits: PalleZingmark (~Adium@217.13.228.226) (Quit: Leaving.)
  638. # [17:24] * Joins: trumpetmic (~trumpetmi@159.182.183.6)
  639. # [17:25] * Joins: thcipriani (~tyler@173-14-24-158-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
  640. # [17:26] * Quits: trumpetmic (~trumpetmi@159.182.183.6) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  641. # [17:26] * Quits: socialhapy (~socialhap@46-38-167-162.static.cloud-ips.co.uk) (Remote host closed the connection)
  642. # [17:26] * Joins: socialhapy (~socialhap@46-38-167-162.static.cloud-ips.co.uk)
  643. # [17:26] * Joins: trumpetmic (~trumpetmi@159.182.183.6)
  644. # [17:27] <paul_irish> hi hi
  645. # [17:27] <paul_irish> http://html5please.us/ launched
  646. # [17:27] <andrewjbaker> LOL.
  647. # [17:27] <paul_irish> Look up HTML5, CSS3, etc features, know if they are ready for use, and if so find out how you should use them – with polyfills, fallbacks or as they are.
  648. # [17:27] <paul_irish> etc
  649. # [17:27] <paul_irish> its cool
  650. # [17:27] <andrewjbaker> I've just pasted that in #bbg, by some bizarre twist of fate.
  651. # [17:27] <paul_irish> contributions welcome
  652. # [17:27] * Joins: kas187_ (~kas187@exchange-02.abasoft.co.uk)
  653. # [17:30] * Quits: kas187 (~kas187@exchange-02.abasoft.co.uk) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  654. # [17:30] * kas187_ is now known as kas187
  655. # [17:31] * Quits: pokoli (~pokoli@45.Red-88-9-224.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  656. # [17:31] * Joins: pokoli (~pokoli@45.Red-88-9-224.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
  657. # [17:33] * Joins: croby (~croby@c-24-22-130-41.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
  658. # [17:33] * Quits: trumpetmic (~trumpetmi@159.182.183.6) (Quit: Leaving.)
  659. # [17:40] * Quits: NimeshNeema (u2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rfngkqwwdsgyzava) (Remote host closed the connection)
  660. # [17:40] * Quits: jeremyselier (u2513@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fwvmjwslliclqzjq) (Remote host closed the connection)
  661. # [17:40] * Quits: pocopina (u5310@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xkpoftxpgiqekwhp) (Remote host closed the connection)
  662. # [17:40] * Quits: matjas (u2247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wptkrmrkwqgktpgi) (Remote host closed the connection)
  663. # [17:40] * Quits: ryanseddon (u1832@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ekihpdnwplqrsydw) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  664. # [17:40] * Quits: Raynos (u3611@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ekjxenecieddbfjn) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  665. # [17:40] * Quits: iaincarsberg (u1388@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bvjehrlhblzljntk) (Remote host closed the connection)
  666. # [17:40] * Quits: Dr4g_ (u3226@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wlivukyvjacgnhtb) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  667. # [17:40] * Quits: niftylettuce (u2733@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gdxcelnetqcnunpo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  668. # [17:40] * Quits: salazr_ (u2027@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sjjtfbxwkigluoqq) (Remote host closed the connection)
  669. # [17:40] * Quits: actel (u48@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lqijfrxesqpkrnwn) (Remote host closed the connection)
  670. # [17:40] * Quits: beowulf (u116@pdpc/supporter/professional/beowulf) (Write error: Broken pipe)
  671. # [17:40] * Quits: daleharvey (u513@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-orehauxemftnlkof) (Write error: Broken pipe)
  672. # [17:40] * Quits: tiglionabbit (u2654@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sujyqimtbgwrrtsu) (Write error: Broken pipe)
  673. # [17:40] * Quits: rohitjha (u4980@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-deezmivquswsgxdu) (Write error: Broken pipe)
  674. # [17:40] * Quits: remysharp (u4345@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tpwjehwhgfqgxzqv) (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
  675. # [17:40] * Quits: tabrezpasha (u2705@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fwmzvqskyqwppxzt) (Write error: Broken pipe)
  676. # [17:40] * Quits: DeLorean731 (~X@67.51.221.42) (Excess Flood)
  677. # [17:40] * Quits: pamelafoxx (u3244@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ausgynunrlzixetn) (Remote host closed the connection)
  678. # [17:40] * Quits: hughfdjackson (u5307@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bwlfpnpkirziaqdo) (Remote host closed the connection)
  679. # [17:40] * Joins: DeLorean731 (~X@67.51.221.42)
  680. # [17:40] * Quits: krijn (u2319@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cnmnydunmjmkwuif) (Remote host closed the connection)
  681. # [17:40] * Quits: tomh (u501@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-erhnxbmyierxfgam) (Remote host closed the connection)
  682. # [17:40] * Quits: IanWizard-Cloud (u1815@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kyvcqlvnzcsjbvxi) (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
  683. # [17:40] * Quits: hdv (u2376@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bxoydjbqvqreitnc) (Write error: Broken pipe)
  684. # [17:40] * Quits: Phae (u455@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wvusffnapumkjdgp) (Write error: Broken pipe)
  685. # [17:41] * Quits: edwinjm (u2756@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nlydqxaqgyvopnyc) (Remote host closed the connection)
  686. # [17:41] * Quits: benschwarz (u2121@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-autycjvzafqgvlxc) (Remote host closed the connection)
  687. # [17:41] * Quits: cyberdees (u2574@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gogxofykapbszpwk) (Remote host closed the connection)
  688. # [17:41] * Quits: matijsb (u2278@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nxkjdmwdrzczjbah) (Remote host closed the connection)
  689. # [17:41] * Joins: actel (u48@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cpslzxkojvrkiihy)
  690. # [17:41] * Quits: actel (u48@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cpslzxkojvrkiihy) (Remote host closed the connection)
  691. # [17:41] * Joins: tabrezpasha (u2705@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-orvbjcbwxktfcrbd)
  692. # [17:43] * Joins: krijn (u2319@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gdgsuhuftkcdnrxe)
  693. # [17:44] * Quits: Lars_ (~larssmit@84.241.204.180) (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi)
  694. # [17:44] * Joins: matijsb (u2278@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-phxrpokhpmifjczf)
  695. # [17:46] * Joins: iaincarsberg (u1388@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rrtuvvsjkqqtiyhl)
  696. # [17:46] * Quits: huskyr (~huskyr@ip169-070.vpro.nl) (Quit: huskyr)
  697. # [17:47] * Joins: henrikkok (~henrikkok@3306ds3-amb.0.fullrate.dk)
  698. # [17:48] * Parts: henrikkok (~henrikkok@3306ds3-amb.0.fullrate.dk)
  699. # [17:49] * Po{teaLOL is now known as Pomax
  700. # [17:51] * Joins: strevat_ (~strevat@c-24-218-144-181.hsd1.vt.comcast.net)
  701. # [17:52] * Joins: pamelafoxx (u3244@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jcriitjyvtnanwur)
  702. # [17:52] * Joins: ryanseddon (u1832@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qejwbjjagndrdofe)
  703. # [17:52] * Joins: hdv (u2376@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-thxkljfaadiaquui)
  704. # [17:53] * Joins: trumpetmic (~trumpetmi@159.182.183.6)
  705. # [17:53] * Joins: beowulf (u116@pdpc/supporter/professional/beowulf)
  706. # [17:54] * Joins: jeremyselier (u2513@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-crhsbdcrrekjhdpu)
  707. # [17:54] * Joins: rohitjha (u4980@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ldzxcbtkjyekltxl)
  708. # [17:56] * Joins: johnkpaul (~johnkpaul@216.127.124.253)
  709. # [17:56] * Quits: strevat_ (~strevat@c-24-218-144-181.hsd1.vt.comcast.net) (Quit: strevat_)
  710. # [17:57] * Quits: NickC_dev (~burt@cpe-70-113-87-207.austin.res.rr.com) (Quit: NickC_dev)
  711. # [17:58] * Joins: daleharvey (u513@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jfvxrowecpqennnx)
  712. # [17:59] * Joins: PalleZingmark (~Adium@217.13.228.226)
  713. # [18:00] * Joins: yogig (~yogig@67-131-94-2.dia.static.qwest.net)
  714. # [18:01] * Quits: tobyx (~tobyx@fsf/member/tobyx) (Quit: Leaving...)
  715. # [18:01] * Joins: cyberdees (u2574@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gklsdsphcfkglkvu)
  716. # [18:01] * Joins: Raynos (u3611@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tsnimrhuekqbbeap)
  717. # [18:02] * Joins: actel (u48@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sfcdtgsrgzjeolaa)
  718. # [18:02] * Quits: dephex (~dddd@65.31.112.81) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  719. # [18:02] * Joins: Phae (u455@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ktmvbvztsdgwxeyd)
  720. # [18:03] * Joins: edwinjm (u2756@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-etfeesbyfffrgqlq)
  721. # [18:03] * Joins: JonathanNeal (~Jonathan@71.21.25.227)
  722. # [18:03] * Joins: niftylettuce (u2733@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xvdsqdvcxuzefysd)
  723. # [18:03] * Quits: johnkpaul (~johnkpaul@216.127.124.253) (Remote host closed the connection)
  724. # [18:03] * Quits: hemm (~hemm@dhcp-ce112133.wt.uni-duisburg-essen.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
  725. # [18:03] * Joins: hemm (~hemm@dhcp-ce112133.wt.uni-duisburg-essen.de)
  726. # [18:03] * Joins: tomh (u501@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nhdfewfxouohgbmc)
  727. # [18:04] * Joins: teleject (~christoph@cpe-70-112-210-24.austin.res.rr.com)
  728. # [18:04] * Joins: NimeshNeema (u2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xumiwjcdrhsqohsk)
  729. # [18:09] * Quits: xec (~xec@188.95.241.142) (Quit: so long)
  730. # [18:09] * Quits: whitman (whitman@itsad-034.its.dur.ac.uk)
  731. # [18:10] * Quits: johnoxton (~johnoxton@nat/canonical/x-czvrboafdlqogkxo) (Quit: johnoxton)
  732. # [18:11] * Quits: trumpetmic (~trumpetmi@159.182.183.6) (Quit: Leaving.)
  733. # [18:12] * Joins: johnoxton (~johnoxton@nat/canonical/x-givtvjxlkipshkqb)
  734. # [18:12] * Joins: Jon47 (~Adium@199.101.130.50)
  735. # [18:12] * Joins: venom00ut (~venom00@unaffiliated/venom00)
  736. # [18:12] * Quits: doritoDan (~doritoDan@unaffiliated/doritodan) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  737. # [18:13] <venom00ut> hello, how will we distinguish html5 from html6 if there's no DTD reference in the DOCTYPE?
  738. # [18:13] * Joins: dgathright (~dgathrigh@107.43.242.184)
  739. # [18:13] <JakeA> html is moving from a versioned model to a continuously developing model
  740. # [18:14] <JakeA> so, there'll be no html6
  741. # [18:14] <JakeA> Stuff will be added to html5
  742. # [18:15] <andrewjbaker> venom00ut, http://www.w3.org/wiki/HTML/next
  743. # [18:15] <venom00ut> so no DTD will ever exist for HTML5?
  744. # [18:15] <venom00ut> the whole validity thing gets lost this way
  745. # [18:15] <Pomax> it's not XML.
  746. # [18:15] <Pomax> so validaty based on a DTD is strictly speaking lost anyway
  747. # [18:16] <JakeA> The only reason we have a doctype at all is because it triggers 'standards mode' in browsers
  748. # [18:16] <jetienne> im happier to drop xml than to drop flash :)
  749. # [18:16] * jetienne suffered a lot due to xml...
  750. # [18:16] <venom00ut> what about xhtml5 then?
  751. # [18:16] <JakeA> You'll still be able to validate your pages, but validation is just a guide
  752. # [18:16] <Pomax> there was a long period where xml was considered the best thing ever. that period scarred a lot of people >_>
  753. # [18:16] <venom00ut> guys the validity thing was very good for non-4-bilion-loc parsers
  754. # [18:17] <Pomax> yes it was, and the spec still lets you write validators.
  755. # [18:17] <Pomax> you just have to make sure your validator stays in tune with the spec.
  756. # [18:17] <venom00ut> sounds very bad
  757. # [18:17] <JakeA> That's how the validators work now
  758. # [18:17] <Pomax> depends on what your target is.
  759. # [18:17] <JakeA> A tick from a validator doesn't mean it'll work in a browser
  760. # [18:18] <JakeA> A fail in a validator doesn't mean it'll fail in a browser
  761. # [18:18] <Pomax> if your target is to keep everyone's content always validated, rather than versioned and thus potentially broken under "current" interpetation, rolling spec and validation is good.
  762. # [18:18] <Pomax> although more work for the people who write validators.
  763. # [18:18] * Joins: dkast (~DustanKas@rrcs-70-61-101-162.midsouth.biz.rr.com)
  764. # [18:18] <JakeA> Basically, treat your validator as a linter
  765. # [18:18] <Pomax> it's not like there's no spec at all to write a validator on, and the spec is not intented to change on the fundamental level of tag grammar.
  766. # [18:19] <Pomax> there's clear lists of which elements do and do not allow which tag grammar.
  767. # [18:19] <Pomax> it's just not "the same XML rule for every tag, irrespective of what that tag is" anymore.
  768. # [18:20] <venom00ut> Pomax, what do you mean? :P you have specific rules for specific elements in xml
  769. # [18:21] * Joins: tiglionabbit (u2654@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-geieqyzcynvhrzqw)
  770. # [18:21] * Joins: strevat_ (~strevat@c-24-218-144-181.hsd1.vt.comcast.net)
  771. # [18:21] * Joins: salazr_ (u2027@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bblycxajkkqkmsae)
  772. # [18:21] <Pomax> yes, but in html5, some elements don't follow the XML "you need a closing tag" rule
  773. # [18:22] <venom00ut> Pomax, that's another story :P
  774. # [18:22] * Joins: IanWizard-Cloud (u1815@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-duxazdevsneocvmp)
  775. # [18:22] * Quits: IanWizard-Cloud (u1815@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-duxazdevsneocvmp) (Changing host)
  776. # [18:22] * Joins: IanWizard-Cloud (u1815@unaffiliated/ianwizard)
  777. # [18:22] * Quits: IanWizard-Cloud (u1815@unaffiliated/ianwizard) (Changing host)
  778. # [18:22] * Joins: IanWizard-Cloud (u1815@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-duxazdevsneocvmp)
  779. # [18:22] <Pomax> the spec's just different from XML. You can write a validator that's future proof just fine, you just need to make sure that when HTML gets a new element, or attributes change, to add that to your validator as knowledge.
  780. # [18:22] <venom00ut> restricting inputs is good for security purposes for instance
  781. # [18:23] <Pomax> if there is HTML code that poses a security risk for the purpose of validator, something went very, very wrong.
  782. # [18:23] <Pomax> *a validator
  783. # [18:24] * theresa_away is now known as theresaanna
  784. # [18:25] * Joins: _dc (~dc@c-24-20-239-11.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
  785. # [18:26] * Joins: NickC_dev (~burt@cpe-70-113-87-207.austin.res.rr.com)
  786. # [18:26] * Quits: manuchill (~mstalfoor@83.232.96.217) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  787. # [18:29] * Joins: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86)
  788. # [18:29] <philihp> Pomax, i still write my HTML5 with a lot of XHTML habits
  789. # [18:29] <venom00ut> behind parsers there are applications usually
  790. # [18:29] * Quits: deasy (~deasy@85.201.207.128) (Quit: Nom d'un quark, c'est Edmonton!)
  791. # [18:29] <Pomax> as do I. I don't like unquoted attributes and unmatched <p> tags =)
  792. # [18:29] <venom00ut> philihp, including CDATA sections?
  793. # [18:29] <philihp> oh no, F that
  794. # [18:29] <Pomax> CDATA sections would just be wrong now.
  795. # [18:29] * Quits: Jonadabe (~Jonadabe@bl8-127-141.dsl.telepac.pt) (Quit: http://www.visitportugal.com | http://www.youtube.com/visitportugal)
  796. # [18:29] <philihp> but things like <br />
  797. # [18:30] <philihp> <input ... selected="selected" />
  798. # [18:30] <Pomax> just be aware that for some, that's now illegal =)
  799. # [18:30] <Pomax> (although no sane browser's going to punish you for it
  800. # [18:30] <Pomax> )
  801. # [18:30] <Ms2ger> Pomax, what's illegal?
  802. # [18:31] <Pomax> selfclosing empty elements
  803. # [18:31] <JakeA> <script src="…" />
  804. # [18:32] <JakeA> Some browsers will punish you for that
  805. # [18:32] * Joins: deasy (~deasy@85.201.207.128)
  806. # [18:32] * Joins: Dr4g_ (u3226@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fbymiupkhesfuslt)
  807. # [18:32] <philihp> <script src="..." /> never worked for me, i have always done <script src="..."></script>
  808. # [18:32] <Pomax> I think we all know which one.
  809. # [18:32] <Pomax> IE positively HATES <script ..... />
  810. # [18:32] * Joins: hughfdjackson_ (u5307@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vmyvesndiikdxipl)
  811. # [18:32] <Ms2ger> <input /> is allowed
  812. # [18:32] <Ms2ger> <script /> just doesn't work
  813. # [18:32] <Pomax> sorry, void element, not "happens to be empty right now'
  814. # [18:33] <Ms2ger> Yeah
  815. # [18:33] * Joins: remysharp (u4345@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ualxiwosyyfmxbrl)
  816. # [18:33] <philihp> annoying thing was when code beautifiers would turn <script></script> into <scrpt /> for me to "help" me out.
  817. # [18:33] <venom00ut> <Pomax> (although no sane browser's going to punish you for it <-- this is the reason for which standards exists
  818. # [18:34] <Pomax> this is also why standards don't always follow the spec
  819. # [18:34] <venom00ut> you don't have to rely on such a thing, if you write an application who needs to parse html you don't have to make such assumptions
  820. # [18:34] <JakeA> venom00ut: HTML is moving to a parsing model more like CSS
  821. # [18:34] <Pomax> if you write an application that parses anything, you need to know what you're doing.
  822. # [18:34] <philihp> how ethical would it be to exploit an IE vulnerability to install chrome frame?
  823. # [18:35] <JakeA> It defines what to do if it see something it doesn't understand
  824. # [18:35] <Pomax> depends on which IE.
  825. # [18:35] <philihp> all the IEs.
  826. # [18:35] <Pomax> that'd be stupid, IE9 is already virtually html5 compliant
  827. # [18:35] * Joins: blackjid1 (~jidonoso@pc-120-163-47-190.cm.vtr.net)
  828. # [18:35] <Ms2ger> Not ethical
  829. # [18:35] * Quits: howlymowly (~quassel@tubsat.fb12.tu-berlin.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  830. # [18:35] <venom00ut> xhtml was very good for parsing, now instead you need a very sophisticated parser
  831. # [18:35] <Pomax> but IE6... I'd say ethical. IE7 and 8, depends on where they're running
  832. # [18:35] <Pomax> yes, and XHTML was XML.
  833. # [18:35] <JakeA> With CSS, you can safely add blah-blah-blah: blah; without breaking browsers, even though that property isn't part of a spec
  834. # [18:36] <Pomax> HTML was more like SGML, and HTML5 is still a bit like that, with leniency rules for people who got XML-ed =)
  835. # [18:36] <Pomax> you can still parse it perfecly fine. Just not when you demand it should be parsable in the same way you parse XML.
  836. # [18:36] * Quits: squeakytoy (hidden-use@ns.netset.se) (Quit: Leaving)
  837. # [18:36] <venom00ut> html5 is a sort of "ok, give up, people don't want to make things in a sane way (with xhml)"
  838. # [18:37] <Pomax> it's more free text than XML, write your tokeniser and DFA accordingly
  839. # [18:37] <Pomax> exactly. it's a "you're right, we were wrong. forcing you to use XML formatting was not a good idea. Plus, everyone's on this "Jason" band wagon these days"
  840. # [18:37] <Pomax> XML is great. just not for real humans.
  841. # [18:37] * Joins: N0va` (~ricki@84.19.108.75)
  842. # [18:38] <Pomax> now that the shine's worn off, XML can be used for what it's good at, and it's not webpage markup.
  843. # [18:38] <philihp> yep! config files!
  844. # [18:38] * Quits: blackjid (~jidonoso@pc-120-163-47-190.cm.vtr.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  845. # [18:39] * joepie92 is now known as joepie91
  846. # [18:43] * Quits: MisterSpeaker (~MisterSpe@zenexity.pck.nerim.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  847. # [18:43] * Joins: NetRoY (~NetRoY@122.167.209.58)
  848. # [18:44] * Quits: dgathright (~dgathrigh@107.43.242.184) (Quit: dgathright)
  849. # [18:45] * Joins: msponge (~msponge@30-7-244.wireless.csail.mit.edu)
  850. # [18:45] * Quits: jeremyselier (u2513@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-crhsbdcrrekjhdpu) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
  851. # [18:46] * Joins: necolas (~necolas@host-92-12-148-102.as43234.net)
  852. # [18:46] * Quits: tiglionabbit (u2654@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-geieqyzcynvhrzqw) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
  853. # [18:46] * Joins: debsan (~debsan@190.245.74.16)
  854. # [18:46] * Quits: msponge (~msponge@30-7-244.wireless.csail.mit.edu) (Remote host closed the connection)
  855. # [18:46] * Quits: tabrezpasha (u2705@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-orvbjcbwxktfcrbd) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
  856. # [18:48] * Joins: trumpetmic (~trumpetmi@159.182.183.6)
  857. # [18:48] * Quits: Dr4g_ (u3226@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fbymiupkhesfuslt) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
  858. # [18:48] * Quits: deasy (~deasy@85.201.207.128) (Quit: Nom d'un quark, c'est Edmonton!)
  859. # [18:50] * Joins: devongovett (~devongove@pcp038545pcs.morro.reshall.calpoly.edu)
  860. # [18:51] * Quits: teleject (~christoph@cpe-70-112-210-24.austin.res.rr.com) (Quit: teleject)
  861. # [18:52] * Quits: NetRoY (~NetRoY@122.167.209.58) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  862. # [18:52] * Joins: MisterSpeaker (~MisterSpe@zenexity.pck.nerim.net)
  863. # [18:52] * Quits: PalleZingmark (~Adium@217.13.228.226) (Quit: Leaving.)
  864. # [18:53] * Joins: NetRoY (~NetRoY@122.167.209.58)
  865. # [18:54] * Joins: JoshuaJones (~JoshuaJon@67.198.198.66)
  866. # [18:55] * Quits: dkast (~DustanKas@rrcs-70-61-101-162.midsouth.biz.rr.com) (Quit: Lost terminal)
  867. # [18:55] * Quits: trumpetmic (~trumpetmi@159.182.183.6) (Quit: Leaving.)
  868. # [18:57] * Quits: rohitjha (u4980@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ldzxcbtkjyekltxl) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
  869. # [18:58] * Joins: trumpetmic (~trumpetmi@159.182.183.6)
  870. # [18:59] * Quits: andrewjbaker (~ajb@ip-81-23-63-2.ask4internet.com) (Quit: Leaving)
  871. # [19:00] * Quits: T-Baggin (~benv@99-7-171-41.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: Leaving...)
  872. # [19:01] * Joins: Taftse (~Taftse@unaffiliated/taftse)
  873. # [19:02] * Quits: MisterSpeaker (~MisterSpe@zenexity.pck.nerim.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  874. # [19:03] * Joins: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113)
  875. # [19:05] * Quits: yogig (~yogig@67-131-94-2.dia.static.qwest.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  876. # [19:05] * Joins: pinage404 (~pinage404@APuteaux-651-1-108-91.w82-124.abo.wanadoo.fr)
  877. # [19:06] <mantas322> I want the capability to append to cache
  878. # [19:06] * Joins: jamund (~jamund@50-73-38-137-utah.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
  879. # [19:06] <JakeA> Which cache?
  880. # [19:06] <mantas322> cache manifest
  881. # [19:07] <JakeA> What kind of thing are you wanting to append?
  882. # [19:07] * Joins: dilvie (~chatzilla@50-0-92-40.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  883. # [19:07] <mantas322> I want to append extra files to the cache manifest
  884. # [19:07] <mantas322> and then have a way for the browser not to have to RECACHE everything
  885. # [19:07] <mantas322> I know this isnt possible but I just thought i'd mention it
  886. # [19:08] * Quits: RobLoach (~RobLoach@drupal.org/user/61114/view) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  887. # [19:08] <mantas322> maybe theres some dev in here who make html5 happen
  888. # [19:08] <mantas322> or perhaps its not an html5 thing but a browser thing
  889. # [19:08] <JakeA> you can do it with html files, add an iframe pointing at an html files that links to the manifest
  890. # [19:08] <mantas322> thats not what im saying
  891. # [19:08] * Quits: NickC_dev (~burt@cpe-70-113-87-207.austin.res.rr.com) (Quit: NickC_dev)
  892. # [19:08] <mantas322> when the cache manifest changes the entire thing gets recached
  893. # [19:09] <JakeA> oh I see
  894. # [19:09] <JakeA> Are most of the files in your appcache css/js/images?
  895. # [19:09] <mantas322> they are simple pages and images
  896. # [19:09] * Joins: dgathright (~dgathrigh@nat/yahoo/x-jgarqpsxxvoozyfq)
  897. # [19:10] <mantas322> howveer I allow the user to make his own manifest via "Save for offline" buttons through out my page
  898. # [19:10] <mantas322> when one gets clicked a custom BROSWER unique cache manifest is created with a specific part of the site
  899. # [19:10] * Joins: fearlesstost (fearlessto@gateway/facebook.com/session)
  900. # [19:10] <mantas322> so each cache manifest is dynamic to the user
  901. # [19:10] <JakeA> Oh I see, I gave up using appcache for that kind of thing
  902. # [19:10] <JakeA> I store optionally cached content in localStorage
  903. # [19:10] <mantas322> I do that too
  904. # [19:11] <mantas322> howvere I need images
  905. # [19:11] <mantas322> however*
  906. # [19:11] <JakeA> Images can be far-future cached
  907. # [19:11] * Joins: yogig (~yogig@67.131.94.2)
  908. # [19:11] <mantas322> and i dont want to have to convert them into somesort of local storage applicable bit code and then have to reconvert it
  909. # [19:11] <JakeA> even if you change the manifest, the browser won't re-request them
  910. # [19:11] <paul_irish> Pomax: http://badassjs.com/post/16355968400/font-js-a-powerful-font-toolkit-for-javascript
  911. # [19:11] <mantas322> "far-future" ?
  912. # [19:11] <mantas322> is that right
  913. # [19:11] <mantas322> im going to have to read into this later, thanks JakeA
  914. # [19:12] * Quits: kas187 (~kas187@exchange-02.abasoft.co.uk) (Quit: kas187)
  915. # [19:12] * Quits: _dc (~dc@c-24-20-239-11.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  916. # [19:12] * Quits: shwetank (~shwetank@122.173.38.107) (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
  917. # [19:12] <JakeA> mantas322: http://developer.yahoo.com/performance/rules.html#expires
  918. # [19:15] <mantas322> thanks Jake
  919. # [19:16] <mantas322> but I always figured if the cache was modified even by one character, the entire thing would get recached
  920. # [19:16] <JakeA> Yeah, but the appcache is an additional cache, rather than an alternative one
  921. # [19:17] <JakeA> if the appcache is invalidated (because of a change in chars) it'll update all the files according to their cache headers
  922. # [19:17] * Joins: johnkpaul (~johnkpaul@216.127.124.253)
  923. # [19:17] <JakeA> if those cache headers say a file doesn't expire until 2015, it won't make a request for it
  924. # [19:21] * Joins: RobLoach (~RobLoach@drupal.org/user/61114/view)
  925. # [19:22] <N0va`> is <div id="clear" /> valid? just seen it being used for the first time :/
  926. # [19:23] * Joins: _dc (~dc@c-24-20-239-11.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
  927. # [19:23] <mantas322> I didnt know that Jake, thanks for the information
  928. # [19:24] <mantas322> I will attempt to do as you suggested on wednesday
  929. # [19:24] * Joins: wdpro_kevin (~Adium@bur-inet-cp-0.disney.com)
  930. # [19:24] <mantas322> and let u know how it goes..
  931. # [19:24] <JakeA> N0va`: It's valid XHTML (if served with an XML doctype) but invalid HTML
  932. # [19:25] * Joins: koggdal (~koggdal@c83-251-117-159.bredband.comhem.se)
  933. # [19:25] <N0va`> right, thanks, figured that, just fired it in a HTML5 validator
  934. # [19:26] * Quits: Stava (~Stava@ip232-rld-sdt.tyfon.se) (Remote host closed the connection)
  935. # [19:27] * Joins: msponge (~msponge@30-7-244.wireless.csail.mit.edu)
  936. # [19:27] * Joins: iNerd (~GIR@78-105-0-114.zone3.bethere.co.uk)
  937. # [19:27] * Joins: NickC_dev (~burt@wireless-206-76-80-80.public.utexas.edu)
  938. # [19:28] <iNerd> Ahoy. I have a question about html5 boilerplate but it suggests one come here. Am I in the right place?
  939. # [19:28] <JonathanNeal> This is a great place.
  940. # [19:29] <iNerd> I'm sure it is.
  941. # [19:30] * Quits: NickC_dev (~burt@wireless-206-76-80-80.public.utexas.edu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  942. # [19:30] * Joins: NickC_dev (~burt@wireless-206-76-80-80.public.utexas.edu)
  943. # [19:30] <iNerd> I'm having trouble with how to add javascripts into html5boilerplate, i don't really get how they want one to integrate them
  944. # [19:30] * Joins: clarke2 (~clarke4@109.78.110.173)
  945. # [19:30] * Quits: NickC_dev (~burt@wireless-206-76-80-80.public.utexas.edu) (Client Quit)
  946. # [19:30] * Quits: JakeA (~Adium@93-97-17-15.zone5.bethere.co.uk) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
  947. # [19:31] * Joins: benv (~benv@50-0-80-160.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  948. # [19:33] * Quits: clarke2 (~clarke4@109.78.110.173) (Client Quit)
  949. # [19:35] * Quits: _dc (~dc@c-24-20-239-11.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  950. # [19:37] * Joins: Jayflux (~jay_knows@cpc1-dudl6-0-0-cust1981.wolv.cable.virginmedia.com)
  951. # [19:37] * Joins: NickC_dev (~burt@wireless-206-76-80-80.public.utexas.edu)
  952. # [19:43] * ericduran is now known as ericduran|food
  953. # [19:47] * Joins: deasy (~deasy@85.201.207.128)
  954. # [19:50] * Quits: gavinsmith (~gavinsmit@CPEe05fb90cc8fb-CM00222ddfdbcd.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  955. # [19:50] * Joins: _dc (~dc@c-24-20-239-11.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
  956. # [19:52] * Joins: enthdegree (600ae0c3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.10.224.195)
  957. # [19:52] <enthdegree> no op party wooo
  958. # [19:53] <enthdegree> byob
  959. # [19:53] * Parts: galfert (~galfert@i59F7B502.versanet.de)
  960. # [19:55] * Joins: LarsSmit (~Lars_Smit@a80-101-110-66.adsl.xs4all.nl)
  961. # [19:57] * Quits: iNerd (~GIR@78-105-0-114.zone3.bethere.co.uk) (Quit: iNerd)
  962. # [19:59] * Joins: dephex (~dddd@CPE-65-31-112-81.wi.res.rr.com)
  963. # [20:01] * Quits: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113) (Remote host closed the connection)
  964. # [20:02] * pinage404 is now known as pinage_faim
  965. # [20:03] * Quits: enthdegree (600ae0c3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.10.224.195) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  966. # [20:03] * Quits: hemm (~hemm@dhcp-ce112133.wt.uni-duisburg-essen.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  967. # [20:05] * Joins: RobLoach1 (~RobLoach@24-246-81-58.cable.teksavvy.com)
  968. # [20:05] * Quits: strevat_ (~strevat@c-24-218-144-181.hsd1.vt.comcast.net) (Quit: strevat_)
  969. # [20:05] * Quits: RobLoach (~RobLoach@drupal.org/user/61114/view) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  970. # [20:06] * Joins: strevat_ (~strevat@c-24-218-144-181.hsd1.vt.comcast.net)
  971. # [20:06] * Joins: simenbrekken (~simenbrek@c85-196-101-98.static.sdsl.no)
  972. # [20:06] * Joins: Trisox (~Trisox@31-151-138-69.dynamic.upc.nl)
  973. # [20:09] * Quits: doug- (~bassplaye@97-85-153-116.static.stls.mo.charter.com) (Quit: Leaving...)
  974. # [20:12] * Joins: barbagallo (~johnbarba@199.20.44.50)
  975. # [20:13] * Joins: buribu (~buribu@177.99.100.58)
  976. # [20:13] * Quits: buribu (~buribu@177.99.100.58) (Changing host)
  977. # [20:13] * Joins: buribu (~buribu@unaffiliated/buribu)
  978. # [20:14] * Joins: wdpro_kevin1 (~Adium@68.71.215.4)
  979. # [20:15] * Joins: patcito (~123@190.43.238.215)
  980. # [20:16] * Quits: wdpro_kevin (~Adium@bur-inet-cp-0.disney.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  981. # [20:22] * Joins: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com)
  982. # [20:22] * Quits: deasy (~deasy@85.201.207.128) (Quit: Nom d'un quark, c'est Edmonton!)
  983. # [20:23] * Joins: rhelic (~tate@unaffiliated/rhelic)
  984. # [20:23] <rhelic> there are no ops here?
  985. # [20:23] <rhelic> fuck yea
  986. # [20:23] <rhelic> SPAM ALL THE USERS
  987. # [20:24] * Joins: matjas (u2247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vlkyihjlumfqhbxu)
  988. # [20:24] <jetienne> pool: suppose you are rewriting jQuery, will you put the $ or not ?
  989. # [20:24] <Pomax> of course, there's still ircops who will kline you if you flood or spam a channel, or multiple users ;)
  990. # [20:25] * Joins: iris777 (d16350f4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.99.80.244)
  991. # [20:25] <rhelic> Pomax: that's why I will slowly and secretly msg or notice each user, with something totally different
  992. # [20:25] <rhelic> if I only spam 1 user per hour, it'll go unnoticed
  993. # [20:25] <Pomax> I'm not pool, but I'd do the same as now. Use jQuery, and alias $ if it's not already aliassed to something else
  994. # [20:25] <rhelic> spam winning!
  995. # [20:26] <Pomax> will it be completely pointless spam, too? Like those emails without any links and just some trigram generated english phrases?
  996. # [20:26] <jetienne> Pomax: ok
  997. # [20:27] * Joins: Jonadabe (~Jonadabe@bl11-3-246.dsl.telepac.pt)
  998. # [20:27] * Quits: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) (Quit: Reading http://davidwalsh.name)
  999. # [20:27] <iris777> anybody try using initializr and jquery mobile?
  1000. # [20:28] <Pomax> love it, rhelic
  1001. # [20:30] <rhelic> Pomax: and if you claim your prize in the next 15 mins, you'll get free vigeragra, just pay additional shipping
  1002. # [20:32] <Pomax> oh em gee, this deal is getting bettor and bettor
  1003. # [20:32] * Parts: pinage_faim (~pinage404@APuteaux-651-1-108-91.w82-124.abo.wanadoo.fr) ("Quitte")
  1004. # [20:32] <rhelic> spelling well is important for the offer to look legitmate
  1005. # [20:33] <rhelic> ironically that really was a typo
  1006. # [20:35] * Joins: sedovsek (~robert.se@93-103-104-107.dynamic.t-2.net)
  1007. # [20:35] * Quits: sedovsek` (robert.sed@93-103-104-107.dynamic.t-2.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  1008. # [20:38] * Quits: devongovett (~devongove@pcp038545pcs.morro.reshall.calpoly.edu) (Quit: devongovett)
  1009. # [20:38] * Quits: joepie91 (~joepie91@s514735fe.adsl.wanadoo.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  1010. # [20:39] * Joins: whitman (~whitman@87-194-159-116.bethere.co.uk)
  1011. # [20:40] * Joins: insin (~insin@host109-153-223-163.range109-153.btcentralplus.com)
  1012. # [20:41] * Joins: teleject (~christoph@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net)
  1013. # [20:45] * Joins: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113)
  1014. # [20:47] * Quits: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86) (Remote host closed the connection)
  1015. # [20:47] * Joins: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86)
  1016. # [20:47] * Joins: tobyx (~tobyx@fsf/member/tobyx)
  1017. # [20:50] * Parts: IanWizard-Cloud (u1815@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-duxazdevsneocvmp)
  1018. # [20:54] * Quits: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86) (Remote host closed the connection)
  1019. # [20:54] * Joins: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86)
  1020. # [20:55] * Joins: kadiks (~kadiks@APuteaux-652-1-255-141.w82-124.abo.wanadoo.fr)
  1021. # [20:57] * Joins: squeakytoy (~squeakyto@107-232-96-87.cust.blixtvik.se)
  1022. # [20:59] * Quits: necolas (~necolas@host-92-12-148-102.as43234.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  1023. # [20:59] * Joins: doritoDan (~doritoDan@unaffiliated/doritodan)
  1024. # [21:02] * Quits: kadiks (~kadiks@APuteaux-652-1-255-141.w82-124.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Leaving)
  1025. # [21:02] * Quits: jetienne (~jerome@ivr94-6-82-230-255-246.fbx.proxad.net) (Quit: jetienne)
  1026. # [21:03] * Quits: philihp (~philihp@sas15254.nat.sas.com) (Quit: you are not a jedi, yet.)
  1027. # [21:04] * Quits: squinteye (~troy@static-72-64-184-30.tampfl.fios.verizon.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  1028. # [21:05] * Quits: iamdustan (~DustanKas@rrcs-70-61-101-162.midsouth.biz.rr.com) (Quit: Lost terminal)
  1029. # [21:06] * Joins: teslan (~teslan@d24-36-97-244.home1.cgocable.net)
  1030. # [21:07] * Quits: trumpetmic (~trumpetmi@159.182.183.6) (Quit: Leaving.)
  1031. # [21:07] * Joins: N0va (~ricki@84.19.108.75)
  1032. # [21:09] * RobLoach1 is now known as RobLoach
  1033. # [21:09] * Quits: RobLoach (~RobLoach@24-246-81-58.cable.teksavvy.com) (Changing host)
  1034. # [21:09] * Joins: RobLoach (~RobLoach@drupal.org/user/61114/view)
  1035. # [21:09] * ericduran|food is now known as ericduran
  1036. # [21:11] * Quits: N0va` (~ricki@84.19.108.75) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  1037. # [21:11] * Quits: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  1038. # [21:13] * Quits: gyzmodo (x@89.146.108.109) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
  1039. # [21:14] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.181.127.125) (Quit: nn)
  1040. # [21:14] * Joins: sephr (~Eli@c-98-235-63-240.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
  1041. # [21:16] * Joins: iamdustan (~DustanKas@rrcs-70-61-101-162.midsouth.biz.rr.com)
  1042. # [21:16] * Joins: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86)
  1043. # [21:18] <teslan> hey guys, i know enough html and javascript and css to follow and even do decent single pages ... do you know of a higher level tutorial that deals with packaging it all together?
  1044. # [21:19] <moo^_^> teslan: like merging and compressing Javascript and CSS
  1045. # [21:19] <moo^_^> teslan: for javascript "modules" use this tool http://requirejs.org/
  1046. # [21:20] <moo^_^> for CSS compressing this works also http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/compressor/css.html
  1047. # [21:21] <teslan> moo^_^: no, more like if i have 3 standalone pages for login, video, form with js on each, how should they be put into a site ... all js into 1 module ... 3 html pages become 3 divs, etc?
  1048. # [21:21] * Quits: NickC_dev (~burt@wireless-206-76-80-80.public.utexas.edu) (Quit: NickC_dev)
  1049. # [21:21] <moo^_^> teslan: all JS in one file
  1050. # [21:22] <moo^_^> if your web server is properly configured it will fetch the file only once
  1051. # [21:22] <moo^_^> and the page 2 and page 3 get the code for free
  1052. # [21:22] <moo^_^> also whether you want to use real URLs or hashbang navigation
  1053. # [21:22] <moo^_^> it depends on the use case
  1054. # [21:23] * Quits: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  1055. # [21:23] <moo^_^> I'd say use separate pages unless you know why you would use single html
  1056. # [21:24] * Joins: dnjaramba_ (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86)
  1057. # [21:25] <teslan> so the noobster question is whether the 3 html pages are just links to eah other and if so does each have header, body, script ... or how to do that ... that is what i need a tutorial on ... in my selflearning by doing, all i did so far is single html pages with header, body, script.
  1058. # [21:25] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@66-87-2-94.pools.spcsdns.net)
  1059. # [21:25] <moo^_^> teslan: you usually use templates
  1060. # [21:26] * Joins: Lars_ (~larssmit@a80-101-110-66.adsl.xs4all.nl)
  1061. # [21:26] <moo^_^> the the server processes the final HTML
  1062. # [21:26] * Quits: Lars_ (~larssmit@a80-101-110-66.adsl.xs4all.nl) (Client Quit)
  1063. # [21:26] <moo^_^> you write one master template and then each individual page extends this template
  1064. # [21:26] <moo^_^> available template languages depends on your web server
  1065. # [21:26] <teslan> templates in web dev seem to be largish bloated beasts and i was hoping to at least first see how it should be structured by hand - just to understand it , before getting lost in templates
  1066. # [21:27] <moo^_^> I'd like to see that too
  1067. # [21:27] * Joins: tantek-ipod (~tantek@66-87-0-185.pools.spcsdns.net)
  1068. # [21:27] <moo^_^> but there isn't yet native HTML way to include bits and pieces from other files
  1069. # [21:27] <moo^_^> you can have jQuery Template and such javascript libraries
  1070. # [21:27] <moo^_^> but they are not suitable for your use case
  1071. # [21:29] * Quits: dnjaramba_ (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86) (Remote host closed the connection)
  1072. # [21:29] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@66-87-2-94.pools.spcsdns.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  1073. # [21:29] * Joins: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86)
  1074. # [21:29] * tantek-ipod is now known as tantek
  1075. # [21:29] * Joins: ajf (~ajf@ajf.me)
  1076. # [21:29] <ajf> oh wow
  1077. # [21:30] <ajf> JS is pretty much a first-class language in Windows 8
  1078. # [21:30] <teslan> my use case is actually very much data driven with very few ui widgets (some but not overwhelming) .... complex youtube player on one and it uses jquery.couch to get its data from couchdb ... average input form for inputting some additional info that is not on youtube .... a login page and that's it ... i could leave it as three unrelated html pages but then i have lots of same java used by all three
  1079. # [21:31] <rhelic> ajf: well IE is the new UI
  1080. # [21:31] <ajf> yup
  1081. # [21:31] <rhelic> although, Win98 and IE4 actually tried to do this once before
  1082. # [21:31] <ajf> and some core apps are now in HTML5
  1083. # [21:31] <ajf> rhelic: yes. hta
  1084. # [21:31] <ajf> er
  1085. # [21:31] <rhelic> it failed, but then everybody had 8-16MB of ram back then
  1086. # [21:31] <ajf> .HTA apps
  1087. # [21:31] <ajf> I made one
  1088. # [21:31] <ajf> in fact XP's user accounts management is done in HTML and JS or VBScript
  1089. # [21:31] <iamdustan> teslan: net.tutslus.com/sessions/web-design-from-scratch/
  1090. # [21:32] <ajf> it's just now web tech is more powerful
  1091. # [21:32] * Quits: strevat_ (~strevat@c-24-218-144-181.hsd1.vt.comcast.net) (Quit: strevat_)
  1092. # [21:32] * Joins: manuchill (~mstalfoor@81.69.16.186)
  1093. # [21:32] <rhelic> yea, plus it helps we have 4x 3ghz now, vs 300mhz
  1094. # [21:32] <ajf> yes
  1095. # [21:32] <rhelic> and 8GB of ram, instead of 8MB
  1096. # [21:32] <iamdustan> it’s going to have some things in there you seem to already be well beyond, but some standard things like how documents link together may be helpful
  1097. # [21:32] <ajf> and very good JS engines
  1098. # [21:33] <ajf> it's ridiculous how much JS performance has improved
  1099. # [21:33] <rhelic> ajf: one guy benched it, from IE6 back when it was new, on that hardware, to today, it was 20,000X literally
  1100. # [21:33] <rhelic> mind you, he didn't equate in CPU comparison
  1101. # [21:33] <ajf> wow.
  1102. # [21:33] <rhelic> something that took him > 8hrs to compute in JS, took 60secs today on Chrome
  1103. # [21:34] <ajf> well THAT's progress :P
  1104. # [21:34] * Joins: joepie91 (~joepie91@ip5457f51b.direct-adsl.nl)
  1105. # [21:34] * Quits: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86) (Remote host closed the connection)
  1106. # [21:34] <rhelic> yea but a lot of it was thanks to just CPU
  1107. # [21:35] * Joins: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86)
  1108. # [21:35] <ajf> true
  1109. # [21:36] <rhelic> I don't know about actual number, but my wild guess is that JS improvements only accounts for 10x speed ups
  1110. # [21:36] <rhelic> iow Chrome
  1111. # [21:36] <ajf> Hmm... Windows 8 is WebOS's successor
  1112. # [21:36] <ajf> HTML5 applications
  1113. # [21:36] <rhelic> oh god don't say that
  1114. # [21:36] <teslan> iamdustan: thanks a lot
  1115. # [21:36] <ajf> well it is in a sense, they did exactly what Palm did
  1116. # [21:36] <rhelic> yea
  1117. # [21:36] <rhelic> I'm just not sure if that's a compilment
  1118. # [21:37] <ajf> yes, WebOS failed :'(
  1119. # [21:39] * Joins: pascal (~Trisox@31-151-138-69.dynamic.upc.nl)
  1120. # [21:39] * Quits: Trisox (~Trisox@31-151-138-69.dynamic.upc.nl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  1121. # [21:39] * Quits: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86) (Remote host closed the connection)
  1122. # [21:39] * Quits: Taftse (~Taftse@unaffiliated/taftse) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  1123. # [21:39] <ajf> oh god, Microsoft even seem to understand asynchronous programming and friendly JS APIs
  1124. # [21:39] * Joins: necolas (~necolas@host-92-12-148-102.as43234.net)
  1125. # [21:39] <ajf> and even JS best practices!(!)
  1126. # [21:40] * Joins: jetienne (~jerome@82.230.255.246)
  1127. # [21:41] * Joins: Thasmo (~thasmo@d86-33-68-66.cust.tele2.at)
  1128. # [21:41] * Joins: jonah (~quassel@188-222-203-126.zone13.bethere.co.uk)
  1129. # [21:42] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@66-87-0-185.pools.spcsdns.net) (Quit: Colloquy for iPod touch - http://colloquy.mobi)
  1130. # [21:42] * Joins: Taftse (~Taftse@unaffiliated/taftse)
  1131. # [21:43] <jonah> hi i wondered if any web designer or hosts can please help me. my host have basically cut me off after 5 days of downtime. i'm on the verge of all my clients leaving me and all i need is a good value managed dedicated/cloud server that i can hopefully get set up tonight? can anyone please recommend a decent managed hosting solution that doesn't cost too much? please help, thanks.
  1132. # [21:43] * Joins: dnjaramba_ (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86)
  1133. # [21:43] <ajf> amazon?
  1134. # [21:44] * Quits: JonathanNeal (~Jonathan@71.21.25.227) (Quit: Leaving.)
  1135. # [21:44] * Quits: tobyx (~tobyx@fsf/member/tobyx) (Quit: Leaving...)
  1136. # [21:46] * Joins: squinteye (~troy@static-72-64-184-30.tampfl.fios.verizon.net)
  1137. # [21:49] * Joins: Ricki__ (~ricki@84.19.108.75)
  1138. # [21:49] * Quits: dnjaramba_ (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  1139. # [21:49] * Joins: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86)
  1140. # [21:50] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@2620:101:8003:200:8c49:856f:11df:f815)
  1141. # [21:52] <pascal> does google chome have a offline mode? any one knows
  1142. # [21:52] * Quits: N0va (~ricki@84.19.108.75) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  1143. # [21:52] * Quits: kennyluck (~kennyluck@114-43-116-53.dynamic.hinet.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  1144. # [21:52] <pascal> cant find it google says i need to install gears
  1145. # [21:52] * Quits: NetRoY (~NetRoY@122.167.209.58) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  1146. # [21:53] * pascal is now known as Trisox
  1147. # [21:55] <paul_irish> Trisox: "offline mode"
  1148. # [21:55] * Joins: strevat_ (~strevat@209-6-71-208.c3-0.abr-ubr1.sbo-abr.ma.cable.rcn.com)
  1149. # [21:55] <paul_irish> define that.
  1150. # [21:55] <paul_irish> offline is a frustrating area these days
  1151. # [21:55] <paul_irish> all browsers (minus ie9) have appcache
  1152. # [21:55] <paul_irish> which is essential to offlineyness.
  1153. # [21:56] <ajf> IE10 has it
  1154. # [21:56] <ajf> Offline mode is a stupid and irrelevant feature
  1155. # [21:57] * Joins: jetienne_ (~jerome@82.230.255.246)
  1156. # [21:57] <moo^_^> ajf: it is
  1157. # [21:57] * Quits: LarsSmit (~Lars_Smit@a80-101-110-66.adsl.xs4all.nl) (Quit: Leaving.)
  1158. # [21:57] <iamdustan> ajf: explain the irrelevancy of it.
  1159. # [21:57] <moo^_^> because its user experience is not that good
  1160. # [21:57] * Joins: kennyluck (~kennyluck@114-43-119-192.dynamic.hinet.net)
  1161. # [21:57] <moo^_^> it is mainly useful with web apps
  1162. # [21:57] <moo^_^> but there is no good "web app installation" experience
  1163. # [21:57] <Trisox> offline mode like in firefox
  1164. # [21:58] <moo^_^> and the users have no clue how it should behave
  1165. # [21:58] <ajf> iamdustan: it's irreleavant because it's no longer needed
  1166. # [21:58] <Trisox> like for testing offline apps with out realy disconecting form the inet
  1167. # [21:58] <ajf> these days we have more reliable and constant connections and when we don't we have appcache
  1168. # [21:58] <Trisox> testing appcache indeed
  1169. # [21:58] * Quits: BreadMaker (~BreadMake@pc-191-49-214-201.cm.vtr.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  1170. # [21:59] <iamdustan> are you speaking of a browser offline mode feature or appcache specifically?
  1171. # [21:59] * Quits: jonah (~quassel@188-222-203-126.zone13.bethere.co.uk) (Remote host closed the connection)
  1172. # [21:59] <ajf> browser offline mode
  1173. # [21:59] <iamdustan> ah. got it. I thought you were referring to appcache as being irrelevant
  1174. # [21:59] <Trisox> wel testing appcache in chrome i was wondering if it got a offline mode with out disconecting from wifi...
  1175. # [21:59] <Trisox> nope
  1176. # [21:59] * Joins: BreadMaker (~BreadMake@pc-191-49-214-201.cm.vtr.net)
  1177. # [21:59] <ajf> oh, that kind of offline mode?
  1178. # [22:00] <Trisox> got it working like i want it to in firefox now but i wannad to test chrome
  1179. # [22:00] <ajf> as in pretend it's offline]
  1180. # [22:00] <Trisox> yup
  1181. # [22:00] <Trisox> firefox got menu > file > work offline
  1182. # [22:00] <Trisox> something like that
  1183. # [22:00] * Quits: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86) (Remote host closed the connection)
  1184. # [22:01] <ajf> yes, but that's a legacy work offline mode
  1185. # [22:01] <ajf> like IE's
  1186. # [22:01] * Joins: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86)
  1187. # [22:01] <Trisox> works for me ;)
  1188. # [22:01] <ajf> it relies on web pages being cached
  1189. # [22:01] <ajf> well, good :)
  1190. # [22:01] <Trisox> it triggers the appcache offline online mode...
  1191. # [22:01] <moo^_^> I think offline apps are more useful in mobile
  1192. # [22:01] <moo^_^> desktop is irrelevant
  1193. # [22:01] <Trisox> true
  1194. # [22:01] <ajf> yes
  1195. # [22:01] <Trisox> but contact url is handy offline
  1196. # [22:02] <Trisox> i use it more for caching ...
  1197. # [22:02] <Trisox> fun to play around with ...
  1198. # [22:04] <ajf> Is IE9 still fastest released browser for rendering?
  1199. # [22:05] <moo^_^> no
  1200. # [22:05] <moo^_^> it does not use webgl
  1201. # [22:05] <moo^_^> anything with webgl is
  1202. # [22:06] <ajf> it's still fastest for 2D though, isn't it?
  1203. # [22:06] * Quits: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86) (Remote host closed the connection)
  1204. # [22:06] <ajf> it absolutely destroys Chrome, at least last time I tried it]
  1205. # [22:07] * Joins: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86)
  1206. # [22:07] <moo^_^> no
  1207. # [22:07] <moo^_^> if you use webgl for 2d
  1208. # [22:07] <ajf> I'm aware you can use WebGL for 2D
  1209. # [22:07] <ajf> but IE9 is still the fastest at 2D web page rendering and canvas
  1210. # [22:07] <ajf> as it hardward accelerates that
  1211. # [22:08] <moo^_^> we need to find some recent benchmarks :)
  1212. # [22:08] <Trisox> opera even slower?
  1213. # [22:08] <Trisox> i thought it was pretty fast 2
  1214. # [22:08] <ajf> moo^_^: using the versions I have
  1215. # [22:08] <moo^_^> gut feelingn doesn't help
  1216. # [22:08] <ajf> IE9 is fasterst
  1217. # [22:08] <ajf> 60FPS vs 7FPS for opera
  1218. # [22:08] <ajf> let's try chrome#
  1219. # [22:09] <ajf> around 7FPS for chrome too
  1220. # [22:09] <Trisox> canary
  1221. # [22:09] <Trisox> :D
  1222. # [22:09] <ajf> let's try FF
  1223. # [22:10] <Trisox> lets try netscape
  1224. # [22:10] <ajf> http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Performance/FlyingImages/
  1225. # [22:10] <ajf> Firefox: <1 FPS
  1226. # [22:10] <Trisox> what about Mosaic? webbrowser?
  1227. # [22:11] <ajf> not sure it would work ;)
  1228. # [22:11] <Trisox> i got 23/25 frames
  1229. # [22:11] <iamdustan> although impressive, I distrust when a vendor pushes out demos not so much to show it’s capabilities, but rather to show how it’s “better” than another browser
  1230. # [22:11] <ajf> Trisox: increase fully
  1231. # [22:11] <Trisox> on firefox ajf
  1232. # [22:11] <ajf> move own
  1233. # [22:11] <ajf> *move down
  1234. # [22:11] * Quits: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86) (Remote host closed the connection)
  1235. # [22:11] <ajf> when it's at 256 images firefox ground to a halt for me
  1236. # [22:11] <moo^_^> ajf: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/firefox-7-web-browser,3037-7.html
  1237. # [22:11] <Trisox> 52 frames
  1238. # [22:12] <Trisox> 44
  1239. # [22:12] <ajf> Trisox: full number of images? did you move into the middle where it stresses it?
  1240. # [22:12] <moo^_^> varies depending on a benchmark
  1241. # [22:12] * Quits: necolas (~necolas@host-92-12-148-102.as43234.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  1242. # [22:12] <moo^_^> I would say microsoft tests are rigged for IE naturally
  1243. # [22:12] <iamdustan> that said IE9 can own some 2d canvas rendering
  1244. # [22:12] <moo^_^> so trust only independend tests
  1245. # [22:12] <iamdustan> si
  1246. # [22:12] <ajf> not so much rigged
  1247. # [22:13] <ajf> but suited to it
  1248. # [22:13] <Trisox> still 17 grames
  1249. # [22:13] <Trisox> frames
  1250. # [22:13] <Trisox> depends on video card.. suport
  1251. # [22:13] <ajf> they use things that work well, for instance pasting ridiculously large numbers of images on acanvas
  1252. # [22:13] <ajf> http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Performance/LetItSnow/
  1253. # [22:13] <Trisox> <-- newest macbook pro...
  1254. # [22:13] * Joins: DreadKnight (~dread@unaffiliated/dreadknight)
  1255. # [22:13] <DreadKnight> hello, anybody decent with javascript interested in teaming up with a few artists for a "heroes of might and magic 3 clone"? we're aiming for kickstarter funding soon
  1256. # [22:13] <Trisox> i'm gona watch a movie
  1257. # [22:13] * Joins: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86)
  1258. # [22:14] <ajf> FF ~12FPS
  1259. # [22:14] <Trisox> nah
  1260. # [22:14] <iamdustan> I think that labs.skookum.com/demos/canvastest has an interesting way to play with canvas fps performance across browsers
  1261. # [22:14] <Trisox> i get more frames then that ajf
  1262. # [22:14] <ajf> Trisox: my CPU isn't exactly fantastic
  1263. # [22:14] <ajf> also
  1264. # [22:14] <ajf> I used 2000 flakes
  1265. # [22:15] <ajf> opera can't handle 250 D:
  1266. # [22:15] <iamdustan> it doesn’t do crazy complex things like MSIE’s demos push
  1267. # [22:15] <Trisox> oh k
  1268. # [22:15] <Trisox> gn8 all movie time
  1269. # [22:15] <ajf> this demo isn't crazy complex, but I like it
  1270. # [22:15] <Trisox> :D
  1271. # [22:15] <ajf> 3FPS for opera
  1272. # [22:16] <ajf> iamdustan: I'l try that
  1273. # [22:16] <Trisox> you do know thouse demo's are mircroknurft optimised
  1274. # [22:16] <Trisox> :P
  1275. # [22:16] <ajf> Well, they are designed to take advantage of IE features, yes
  1276. # [22:16] <Trisox> so not fair :)
  1277. # [22:17] <moo^_^> check tom's hardware link
  1278. # [22:17] <ajf> like hardware-accelerated 2d canvas... if it used WebGL for other browsers, it would have same or better performance
  1279. # [22:17] <moo^_^> some independend benchmarks
  1280. # [22:17] <moo^_^> like one from facebook
  1281. # [22:17] * Quits: erichynds (~ehynds@venkman.brightcove.com)
  1282. # [22:17] <Trisox> id rather have input surpot then canvas 3d webgl 3d delux :P
  1283. # [22:17] <Trisox> support
  1284. # [22:19] * Joins: devongovett (~devongove@pcp038545pcs.morro.reshall.calpoly.edu)
  1285. # [22:19] <Trisox> gn8 all movie time
  1286. # [22:19] * Quits: Trisox (~Trisox@31-151-138-69.dynamic.upc.nl) (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
  1287. # [22:19] * Quits: devongovett (~devongove@pcp038545pcs.morro.reshall.calpoly.edu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  1288. # [22:20] * Joins: devongovett (~devongove@pcp038545pcs.morro.reshall.calpoly.edu)
  1289. # [22:20] * Joins: MisterSpeaker (~MisterSpe@did75-9-82-230-54-70.fbx.proxad.net)
  1290. # [22:20] <ajf> shame MS don't support WebGL though
  1291. # [22:20] * Quits: mantra (~mantra@unaffiliated/mantra) (Quit: out.)
  1292. # [22:20] * Quits: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86) (Remote host closed the connection)
  1293. # [22:21] * Joins: cyclops (~cyclops@c-24-20-222-42.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
  1294. # [22:21] * Joins: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86)
  1295. # [22:22] * Joins: eysman (~eysman@AAnnecy-157-1-62-62.w86-219.abo.wanadoo.fr)
  1296. # [22:22] * Quits: devmikey (~irc@unaffiliated/devmikey) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  1297. # [22:24] * Quits: Taftse (~Taftse@unaffiliated/taftse) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  1298. # [22:25] <ajf> dislaimer: I actually use IE9 as my default browser
  1299. # [22:26] * Quits: mantas322 (c0cb7a65@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.203.122.101) (Quit: Page closed)
  1300. # [22:27] * Joins: shaDykhan (~shaDykhan@c-67-184-85-179.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
  1301. # [22:28] <tw2113> eww
  1302. # [22:28] <ajf> it's not that bad
  1303. # [22:28] <tw2113> if you're going to use IE for anything, at least go with the bleeding edge :P
  1304. # [22:29] <ajf> will be soon, getting platform preview
  1305. # [22:29] * Joins: gniourf_gniourf (~Gniourf@2a01:e35:2433:3b90:222:41ff:fe23:8d8e)
  1306. # [22:29] <ajf> honestly though IE9 is fine. It doesn't have a bunch of HTML5 things I would like, but it is nice
  1307. # [22:29] <ajf> certainly a huge improvement over IE8
  1308. # [22:30] * Quits: koggdal (~koggdal@c83-251-117-159.bredband.comhem.se) (Quit: koggdal)
  1309. # [22:30] <ajf> and tabs run in seperate processes, like Chrome
  1310. # [22:30] * Quits: ColKurtz (~ColKurtz@pool-108-23-5-31.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  1311. # [22:32] * Joins: tantek_ (~tantek@nat/mozilla/x-uxhtpbzhslsmpgyc)
  1312. # [22:33] <moo^_^> ajf: my only problem with IE9 is that the world is using IE6, IE7 and IE8
  1313. # [22:33] <moo^_^> :)
  1314. # [22:33] * Quits: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86) (Remote host closed the connection)
  1315. # [22:33] <ajf> sadly
  1316. # [22:33] <ajf> although MS finally put it in Windows Update
  1317. # [22:33] <moo^_^> true
  1318. # [22:34] <ajf> moo^_^: it's mostly the fault of piracy and corporate networks though :)
  1319. # [22:34] <moo^_^> too little, too late though :)
  1320. # [22:34] <ajf> by piracy I mean "China"
  1321. # [22:34] <moo^_^> or it's fault of the fact that microsoft is passively pushing against web
  1322. # [22:34] <moo^_^> they could have deployed ie9 on all windowses by today if they had wished so
  1323. # [22:34] <moo^_^> many years ago
  1324. # [22:35] <moo^_^> so microsoft does not deserve any pity
  1325. # [22:35] * Quits: strevat_ (~strevat@209-6-71-208.c3-0.abr-ubr1.sbo-abr.ma.cable.rcn.com) (Quit: strevat_)
  1326. # [22:35] <ajf> not really
  1327. # [22:35] <ajf> they just only took standards compliance seriously recently
  1328. # [22:35] <moo^_^> wel yes
  1329. # [22:35] <moo^_^> they could have done it 7 years ago
  1330. # [22:35] <ajf> e.g. IE8, IE9
  1331. # [22:35] * Joins: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86)
  1332. # [22:35] <moo^_^> so no pity
  1333. # [22:36] <ajf> eh
  1334. # [22:36] <moo^_^> they don't deserve to be treated as 1st class web citizen
  1335. # [22:36] <ajf> they base their browsers on fuly standardized web standards
  1336. # [22:36] <ajf> most of the time
  1337. # [22:36] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@2620:101:8003:200:8c49:856f:11df:f815) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  1338. # [22:36] * tantek_ is now known as tantek
  1339. # [22:36] <ajf> they don't like doing in-development stuff
  1340. # [22:37] <moo^_^> they have caused so much extra work hours for me during the last ten years that nothing is going to change anymore the fact that I only spit to the general direction of redmond
  1341. # [22:37] * Joins: NickC_dev (~burt@wireless-128-62-92-79.public.utexas.edu)
  1342. # [22:37] <ajf> moo^_^: They have done one great thing for the web though
  1343. # [22:37] <ajf> Windows 8's default browser has no plugins :D
  1344. # [22:37] <moo^_^> ajf: no
  1345. # [22:37] <moo^_^> tell me that when windows 8 has replaced windows xp installations
  1346. # [22:37] <moo^_^> they have done nothing yet
  1347. # [22:37] <ajf> Windows 7 is catching up on XP
  1348. # [22:38] <ajf> moo^_^: XP for home is dead
  1349. # [22:38] <moo^_^> ajf: you are only wasting your time to arguing with me
  1350. # [22:38] <ajf> it's corporates and third-world piracy keeping it afloat
  1351. # [22:38] <ajf> moan to them, MS is powerless over them
  1352. # [22:38] <moo^_^> as I said, I have suffered so much because of microsoft my mind doesn't want to hear your arguments
  1353. # [22:38] <ajf> hey, so have I. IE6 is retarded
  1354. # [22:39] <ajf> a bastard child that should be euthanised forever
  1355. # [22:39] <ajf> even MS hate it
  1356. # [22:39] <moo^_^> well too bad
  1357. # [22:39] <moo^_^> they could havefixed the situation many years ago
  1358. # [22:40] <ajf> they did, IE7 :P
  1359. # [22:40] <moo^_^> they did not
  1360. # [22:40] <moo^_^> how it has taken 10 years before they push update for the users?
  1361. # [22:40] <moo^_^> no excuses
  1362. # [22:40] <ajf> moo^_^: EU
  1363. # [22:40] <ajf> European Union
  1364. # [22:40] <ajf> it's their fault, actually
  1365. # [22:41] <ajf> the anti-trust suit stalled development
  1366. # [22:41] <moo^_^> yes
  1367. # [22:41] <moo^_^> that was good
  1368. # [22:41] <moo^_^> firefox gained traction
  1369. # [22:41] <ajf> true
  1370. # [22:41] <moo^_^> but nothing changes the fact that MS is shitty company managed by people who held back web development for many years
  1371. # [22:41] <ajf> (it's not like I like IE particularly, I just want to give IE9/10 a chance)
  1372. # [22:41] * Quits: msponge (~msponge@30-7-244.wireless.csail.mit.edu) (Quit: msponge)
  1373. # [22:41] <moo^_^> well I don't
  1374. # [22:41] <kurrent> html5please looks really good, best reference yet probably
  1375. # [22:41] <moo^_^> it doesn't deserve it
  1376. # [22:42] <ajf> hey, come on! They didn't! THey advanced web insecurity hugely
  1377. # [22:42] <ajf> through such great features as ActiveX
  1378. # [22:42] <ajf> and VBSCript
  1379. # [22:42] <ajf> and COM objects
  1380. # [22:42] <ajf> and buffer overflows!
  1381. # [22:42] * Quits: _inc (~inc@unaffiliated/-inc/x-0498339) (*.net *.split)
  1382. # [22:42] * Quits: timtux (~cocaine@46.102.244.60) (*.net *.split)
  1383. # [22:42] <ajf> and automatic software downloads!
  1384. # [22:42] * Quits: DeLorean731 (~X@67.51.221.42) (Excess Flood)
  1385. # [22:42] <kurrent> i die a little at the ubiquity of the the word "polyfill" on it
  1386. # [22:42] * Joins: DeLorean731 (~X@67.51.221.42)
  1387. # [22:43] <ajf> well, moo^_^
  1388. # [22:43] <ajf> Microsoft did give ONE good thing to the world
  1389. # [22:43] <ajf> ONE
  1390. # [22:43] <ajf> CSS's custom font support :)
  1391. # [22:43] * Quits: coeus (~coeus@dslb-084-061-060-194.pools.arcor-ip.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  1392. # [22:43] <moo^_^> ajf: please stop
  1393. # [22:44] <moo^_^> one good thing cannot fix the harm they have done for the web
  1394. # [22:44] * Quits: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  1395. # [22:44] <ajf> I know :/
  1396. # [22:45] * Joins: coeus (~coeus@dslb-084-061-060-194.pools.arcor-ip.net)
  1397. # [22:45] <ajf> http://www.ie6countdown.com/
  1398. # [22:46] <ajf> 7.7%... well that's a start
  1399. # [22:46] <ajf> it was nearly double that the year before
  1400. # [22:46] * Joins: N0va (~ricki@84.19.108.75)
  1401. # [22:47] * Joins: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86)
  1402. # [22:47] * Joins: timtux (~cocaine@46.102.244.60)
  1403. # [22:47] <ajf> moo^_^: out of curiosity, what is your default web browser?
  1404. # [22:48] <moo^_^> I use both Firefox and Chrome
  1405. # [22:48] * Joins: JonathanNeal (~Jonathan@71.21.25.227)
  1406. # [22:48] <ajf> Why both? FF's extensions?
  1407. # [22:48] <moo^_^> It's changing
  1408. # [22:48] <moo^_^> FF is nowadays faster so I am switching back
  1409. # [22:49] <moo^_^> and of course, Mozilla is non-profit
  1410. # [22:49] <moo^_^> and does a lot of good things
  1411. # [22:49] <ajf> it does
  1412. # [22:49] <ajf> Google's do no evil motto... has changed a little
  1413. # [22:49] <ajf> my big worry for the web just now is it's so complex... HTML, CSS and JS are no longer the simple beasts they once were
  1414. # [22:50] <moo^_^> google will be microsoft of 10s
  1415. # [22:50] <moo^_^> facing all the monopoly trials
  1416. # [22:50] <ajf> it may well be
  1417. # [22:50] <ajf> or perhaps Apple
  1418. # [22:50] * Quits: eysman (~eysman@AAnnecy-157-1-62-62.w86-219.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
  1419. # [22:50] <ajf> I dislike Google but I hate Apple
  1420. # [22:51] * Quits: Ricki__ (~ricki@84.19.108.75) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  1421. # [22:53] * Quits: johnkpaul (~johnkpaul@216.127.124.253) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  1422. # [22:54] <paul_irish> kurrent: thxx
  1423. # [22:54] <paul_irish> kurrent: i helped proliferate the word polyfill so i can take responsibility
  1424. # [22:54] * Quits: fearlesstost (fearlessto@gateway/facebook.com/session) (Quit: fearlesstost)
  1425. # [22:54] <paul_irish> IMO its distinctive from a "shim" because its a drop-in that only needs to exist when the feature isnt there
  1426. # [22:54] * Quits: squeakytoy (~squeakyto@107-232-96-87.cust.blixtvik.se) (Quit: Leaving)
  1427. # [22:55] <paul_irish> which means you dont need to send the code down the wire if its already implemented.
  1428. # [22:55] <ajf> remind me what a shim is?
  1429. # [22:55] * Joins: johnkpaul (~johnkpaul@216.127.124.253)
  1430. # [22:55] <paul_irish> like a localStorage shim would be store.set(key,val)
  1431. # [22:55] <paul_irish> some .. abstracted API like that
  1432. # [22:55] <ajf> ah
  1433. # [22:55] <paul_irish> vs a polyfill which is
  1434. # [22:55] <ajf> a drop-in replacement?
  1435. # [22:55] <paul_irish> window.localStorage = { setItem : function(){ ...
  1436. # [22:56] <paul_irish> would be the polyfill
  1437. # [22:56] <paul_irish> more or less.
  1438. # [22:56] <ajf> yes
  1439. # [22:56] <ajf> so I could make a shim like:
  1440. # [22:56] * Joins: squeakytoy (~squeakyto@107-232-96-87.cust.blixtvik.se)
  1441. # [22:56] <ajf> c = new ratherBadCanvasShim(200,200); c.box(0,0,100,100,"red");
  1442. # [22:56] * Joins: trumpetmic (~trumpetmi@159.182.183.6)
  1443. # [22:57] <ajf> and it would use tables OR divs + CSS OR VML OR Flash OR Silverlight
  1444. # [22:58] <paul_irish> heh yes
  1445. # [22:58] <paul_irish> precisely.
  1446. # [22:58] <paul_irish> thats why a new word seemed useful
  1447. # [22:58] * Quits: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  1448. # [22:58] <ajf> I want to make this for some reason
  1449. # [22:58] <ajf> A canvas WITH TABLES
  1450. # [22:58] <ajf> because IE4 SUPPORT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO ME]
  1451. # [22:58] * Quits: MissionCritical (~MissionCr@unaffiliated/missioncritical) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  1452. # [22:59] * Joins: anthracite (anthracite@pdpc/supporter/active/anthracite)
  1453. # [22:59] * Joins: arniokas (~arn@drsd-4db3ec60.pool.mediaWays.net)
  1454. # [22:59] * Quits: manuchill (~mstalfoor@81.69.16.186) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  1455. # [22:59] * Joins: grantg (~chatzilla@69.88.160.3)
  1456. # [23:00] * Joins: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86)
  1457. # [23:00] <tw2113> IE4?
  1458. # [23:01] <ajf> just for the sake of it
  1459. # [23:01] <franksalim> walter zorn's jsgraphics?
  1460. # [23:03] <ajf> looks like what I was thinking of
  1461. # [23:05] * Quits: trumpetmic (~trumpetmi@159.182.183.6) (Quit: Leaving.)
  1462. # [23:08] * Quits: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  1463. # [23:08] * Joins: _inc (~inc@unaffiliated/-inc/x-0498339)
  1464. # [23:08] * Quits: whitman (~whitman@87-194-159-116.bethere.co.uk)
  1465. # [23:09] * Quits: cccaldas (~cccaldas@177.40.220.55) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  1466. # [23:09] * Joins: trumpetmic (~trumpetmi@159.182.183.6)
  1467. # [23:11] * Joins: cccaldas (~cccaldas@187.59.107.36)
  1468. # [23:13] * Joins: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86)
  1469. # [23:14] * Quits: sedovsek (~robert.se@93-103-104-107.dynamic.t-2.net)
  1470. # [23:15] * Joins: buribux (~buribu@186.214.114.204)
  1471. # [23:15] * Quits: buribux (~buribu@186.214.114.204) (Changing host)
  1472. # [23:15] * Joins: buribux (~buribu@unaffiliated/buribux)
  1473. # [23:18] * Quits: buribu (~buribu@unaffiliated/buribu) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  1474. # [23:19] * Quits: shaDykhan (~shaDykhan@c-67-184-85-179.hsd1.il.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  1475. # [23:19] * Quits: venom00ut (~venom00@unaffiliated/venom00) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  1476. # [23:20] * Joins: andrewjbaker (~ajb@host-78-150-172-86.as13285.net)
  1477. # [23:21] * Joins: shaDykhan (~shaDykhan@c-67-184-85-179.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
  1478. # [23:23] * Joins: Ricki__ (~ricki@84.19.108.75)
  1479. # [23:24] * Joins: necolas (~necolas@host-92-12-148-102.as43234.net)
  1480. # [23:25] * Quits: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  1481. # [23:26] * Joins: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86)
  1482. # [23:27] * Quits: N0va (~ricki@84.19.108.75) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  1483. # [23:29] * Quits: necolas (~necolas@host-92-12-148-102.as43234.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  1484. # [23:29] * Quits: blackjid1 (~jidonoso@pc-120-163-47-190.cm.vtr.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
  1485. # [23:32] * Quits: shaDykhan (~shaDykhan@c-67-184-85-179.hsd1.il.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  1486. # [23:32] * Quits: squeakytoy (~squeakyto@107-232-96-87.cust.blixtvik.se) (Quit: Leaving)
  1487. # [23:34] * jacobolu_ is now known as jacobolus
  1488. # [23:34] * Joins: MissionCritical (~MissionCr@unaffiliated/missioncritical)
  1489. # [23:34] * Quits: iris777 (d16350f4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.99.80.244) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  1490. # [23:36] * Quits: MisterSpeaker (~MisterSpe@did75-9-82-230-54-70.fbx.proxad.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  1491. # [23:36] <Jayflux> its all about ie4 support these days
  1492. # [23:37] * Quits: grantg (~chatzilla@69.88.160.3) (Quit: ...)
  1493. # [23:38] * Quits: trumpetmic (~trumpetmi@159.182.183.6) (Quit: Leaving.)
  1494. # [23:39] * Joins: trumpetmic (~trumpetmi@159.182.183.6)
  1495. # [23:40] <tw2113> gotta support that family
  1496. # [23:40] * Quits: simenbrekken (~simenbrek@c85-196-101-98.static.sdsl.no) (Remote host closed the connection)
  1497. # [23:42] * Quits: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113) (Quit: Hi, I'm a quit message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over the world of IRC.)
  1498. # [23:42] * Joins: schnoomac (~schnoomac@melbourne.99cluster.com)
  1499. # [23:44] * Quits: sasori (~sasori@acl1-719bts.gw.smartbro.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  1500. # [23:46] * Quits: devongovett (~devongove@pcp038545pcs.morro.reshall.calpoly.edu) (Quit: devongovett)
  1501. # [23:46] * Joins: devongovett (~devongove@pcp038545pcs.morro.reshall.calpoly.edu)
  1502. # [23:46] * Quits: devongovett (~devongove@pcp038545pcs.morro.reshall.calpoly.edu) (Client Quit)
  1503. # [23:47] * Joins: ColKurtz (~ColKurtz@pool-108-23-5-31.lsanca.fios.verizon.net)
  1504. # [23:48] * Quits: NickC_dev (~burt@wireless-128-62-92-79.public.utexas.edu) (Quit: NickC_dev)
  1505. # [23:50] * Quits: cccaldas (~cccaldas@187.59.107.36) (Quit: leaving)
  1506. # [23:50] * Joins: cccaldas (~cccaldas@187.59.107.36)
  1507. # [23:53] * Quits: barbagallo (~johnbarba@199.20.44.50) (Quit: barbagallo)
  1508. # [23:57] * Joins: squeakytoy (~squeakyto@107-232-96-87.cust.blixtvik.se)
  1509. # [23:57] * Quits: iamdustan (~DustanKas@rrcs-70-61-101-162.midsouth.biz.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  1510. # [23:57] * Joins: blackjid (~jidonoso@pc-120-163-47-190.cm.vtr.net)
  1511. # [23:58] * Quits: digitalfiz (~fiz@unaffiliated/digitalfiz) (Quit: [Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/])
  1512. # Session Close: Tue Jan 24 00:00:00 2012

The end :)