/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2012-01-23 / end

Options:

# Session Start: Mon Jan 23 00:00:01 2012
# Session Ident: #html5
# [00:05] * Quits: pinage_faim (~pinage404@APuteaux-651-1-108-91.w82-124.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: pon pon way way way! pon pon way pon way pon pon! way way pon pon pon! way way pon way pon way way!)
# [00:08] * Joins: Akina (~chatzilla@46.246.134.240.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr)
# [00:08] * Parts: Akina (~chatzilla@46.246.134.240.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr)
# [00:09] * Quits: techrush- (~techrush@cpe-76-175-29-57.socal.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
# [00:13] * Joins: Jon47 (~Adium@c-67-180-11-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
# [00:13] * Joins: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113)
# [00:14] * Quits: debsan (~debsan@190.245.74.16) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
# [00:14] * Joins: debsan (~debsan@190.245.74.16)
# [00:18] * Quits: simenbrekken (~simenbrek@c85-196-101-98.static.sdsl.no) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [00:20] * Quits: tobyx (~tobyx@fsf/member/tobyx) (Quit: Leaving...)
# [00:28] * Joins: nerdfiles1 (~Adium@rrcs-97-77-180-51.sw.biz.rr.com)
# [00:30] * Parts: nerdfiles1 (~Adium@rrcs-97-77-180-51.sw.biz.rr.com)
# [00:31] * Joins: NickC_dev (~burt@rrcs-97-77-181-228.sw.biz.rr.com)
# [00:34] * Quits: y3di (~y3di@pool-72-74-113-246.bstnma.east.verizon.net)
# [00:40] * Quits: debsan (~debsan@190.245.74.16) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
# [00:41] * Quits: deasy (~deasy@85.201.207.128) (Quit: Nom d'un quark, c'est Edmonton!)
# [00:42] * Quits: squeakytoy (~squeakyto@107-232-96-87.cust.blixtvik.se) (Quit: Leaving)
# [00:45] * Quits: pocopina (~pocopina@cpc10-camd13-2-0-cust53.hari.cable.virginmedia.com) (Quit: Leaving)
# [00:46] * Quits: Jon47 (~Adium@c-67-180-11-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [00:52] * Joins: devongovett (~devongove@pcp038545pcs.morro.reshall.calpoly.edu)
# [00:55] * Quits: dpogue (~dpogue@S010600226b831d53.vf.shawcable.net) (Quit: :q!)
# [00:55] * Quits: koggdal (~koggdal@c83-251-117-159.bredband.comhem.se) (Quit: koggdal)
# [00:57] * Joins: sephr (~Eli@c-98-235-63-240.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
# [00:59] * Joins: dpogue (~dpogue@S010600226b831d53.vf.shawcable.net)
# [01:03] <remysharp> I'm reading that the gamma on deviceorientation should range from -90 - 90 (http://dev.w3.org/geo/api/spec-source-orientation.html#deviceorientation) but when actually testing on a phone, it's reporting ranges -180 - 180 - is the spec wrong?
# [01:04] * Joins: OzDave_imac (~OzDave@27-33-43-79.static.tpgi.com.au)
# [01:07] * Joins: Shama| (~|SM|@unaffiliated/shama/x-4273013)
# [01:07] * Quits: socialhapy (~socialhap@46-38-167-162.static.cloud-ips.co.uk) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [01:07] * Joins: socialhapy (~socialhap@46-38-167-162.static.cloud-ips.co.uk)
# [01:10] * Quits: OzDave_imac (~OzDave@27-33-43-79.static.tpgi.com.au) (Quit: OzDave_imac)
# [01:13] * Quits: Hopsy (~kvirc@77.63.23.207) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
# [01:13] * Parts: Shama| (~|SM|@unaffiliated/shama/x-4273013) ("Saliendo")
# [01:13] * Quits: socialhapy (~socialhap@46-38-167-162.static.cloud-ips.co.uk) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [01:14] * Joins: socialhapy (~socialhap@46-38-167-162.static.cloud-ips.co.uk)
# [01:19] <tw2113> how would i go about globalizing geolocation latlon data? I want to only call for that once and put them into useable variables
# [01:21] * Joins: aitiba (~aitiba@18.169.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es)
# [01:21] * Joins: JanHe (~Jan@x1-6-00-26-f2-66-2b-fe.k884.webspeed.dk)
# [01:21] * Quits: devongovett (~devongove@pcp038545pcs.morro.reshall.calpoly.edu) (Quit: devongovett)
# [01:24] * Joins: dmachi1 (~dmachi@pool-72-66-209-165.ronkva.east.verizon.net)
# [01:24] * Quits: dmachi (~dmachi@pool-72-66-209-165.ronkva.east.verizon.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [01:25] * Joins: Jon47 (~Adium@c-67-180-11-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
# [01:25] * Quits: aQustic (~aQustic@180.69.9.46.customer.cdi.no) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
# [01:26] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@ai126212030148.5.tik.access-internet.ne.jp) (Quit: tantek)
# [01:33] * Joins: aQustic (~aQustic@180.69.9.46.customer.cdi.no)
# [01:34] * Joins: s_segawa (~s_segawa@221x251x236x110.ap221.ftth.ucom.ne.jp)
# [01:34] * Quits: JanHe (~Jan@x1-6-00-26-f2-66-2b-fe.k884.webspeed.dk)
# [01:35] <tw2113> nevermind
# [01:37] * Quits: sw0rdfish (~Johnson@unaffiliated/robinux) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
# [01:39] <ryanseddon> remysharp: according to the safari docks gamma is between -180 and 180 https://developer.apple.com/library/safari/#documentation/SafariDOMAdditions/Reference/DeviceOrientationEventClassRef/DeviceOrientationEvent/DeviceOrientationEvent.html
# [01:40] <remysharp> ryanseddon: gah - another Apple vs. everyone else then.
# [01:40] <ryanseddon> yep
# [01:40] * Joins: joepie92 (~joepie91@s514735fe.adsl.wanadoo.nl)
# [01:43] <ryanseddon> remysharp: heh it's actually backwards beta is -90 and 90 and gamma is -180 and 180 in safari docks reversed in actual spec
# [01:43] <ryanseddon> docs*
# [01:43] <remysharp> yeah, I've been testing iOS against emulated deviceorientation (by the specs) and found that out already
# [01:43] <remysharp> I was utterly confused for a while
# [01:43] * Joins: OzDave_imac (~OzDave@27-33-43-79.static.tpgi.com.au)
# [01:43] <remysharp> then just figured screw it!
# [01:43] <jair> guys I have a large image 1366x768 and I want to use this image as the main background of the index page, in top of the image I will be creating a form with only one box to enter the email and a button to click "go" and will send the email to a sign up list or database.
# [01:43] <redheadphones> is there a tool around that i can use to check for syntax and other errors/warnings in my html5 templates?
# [01:44] <jair> if I look at the image it is not in the middle in some browsers specially the mobile ones or when I resize the browser page
# [01:44] <tw2113> the w3 validator?
# [01:44] <jair> here is the site I am working on: www.fliksee.com
# [01:44] * Joins: replore_ (~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp)
# [01:45] <redheadphones> tw2113, that looks like what i want, but i would like it in an offline tool, maybe commandline or something
# [01:46] <tw2113> dunno then
# [01:46] <jair> I am using css for the black background and the picture I want to have it in the middle of the page whenever is open or resize the browser window adjust to the middle.
# [01:48] <redheadphones> oh, log validator seems to cover it. sweet.
# [01:50] * Quits: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
# [01:50] * Quits: robhawkes (~robhawkes@188-220-16-96.dsl.cnl.uk.net) (Quit: Leaving...)
# [01:53] * Joins: devongovett (~devongove@pcp038545pcs.morro.reshall.calpoly.edu)
# [01:53] * Quits: NickC_dev (~burt@rrcs-97-77-181-228.sw.biz.rr.com) (Quit: NickC_dev)
# [01:57] * Joins: debsan (~debsan@190.245.74.16)
# [01:58] <aitiba> localstorage goes ok on opera movile?
# [02:03] * Quits: _inc (~inc@unaffiliated/-inc/x-0498339) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [02:04] * Joins: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113)
# [02:04] * Joins: _inc (~inc@unaffiliated/-inc/x-0498339)
# [02:09] * Quits: doug_ (~bassplaye@97-85-153-116.static.stls.mo.charter.com) (Quit: Leaving...)
# [02:12] * Quits: RobLoach (~RobLoach@drupal.org/user/61114/view) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [02:13] * Joins: todun (~todun@SEAS102.wlan.seas.upenn.edu)
# [02:16] <todun> is it possible to preserve the an html code inside an html document? For example: <html><h1> ...<html><b>I want to preserve this block of html code</html></b>...</h1></html> ? Thanks.
# [02:18] <Pomax> you've just put <html> inside <html>
# [02:19] <todun> Pomax: yes. I was hoping there was a way to indicate that it is just regular text or something.
# [02:20] <Pomax> so when you preserve, you mean you want it to show up verbatim, without being interpreted as html?
# [02:20] <todun> Pomax: exactly!
# [02:21] <Pomax> the only way I know of, off the top of my head, is to stick it in a <textarea>
# [02:22] <Pomax> but it's probably a CSS property I never use, let me check
# [02:22] <todun> Pomax: ok. let me try that. thanks.
# [02:22] * Quits: Jayflux (~jay_knows@cpc1-dudl6-0-0-cust1981.wolv.cable.virginmedia.com) (Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com ))
# [02:24] <Pomax> hm, can't find it atm.
# [02:25] <todun> Pomax: np. this suffices for now. thanks.
# [02:26] * Joins: hughfdjackson_ (u5307@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bwlfpnpkirziaqdo)
# [02:26] * hughfdjackson_ is now known as hughfdjackson
# [02:26] <Pomax> you can always style the textarea to look like it's not a texterea. And set editable to false so people can't change what you placed in it
# [02:27] <todun> thanks for the pointer
# [02:29] * Joins: materialdesigner (~cah276@cpe-67-255-5-62.twcny.res.rr.com)
# [02:33] <todun> Pomax: using regular HTML, I used the attribute readonly="readonly". could not find editable. perhaps that is an HTML5 thing...
# [02:35] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@ai126212021109.5.tik.access-internet.ne.jp)
# [02:35] <Pomax> readonly works, disabled also works.
# [02:35] * Joins: mike5w3c (~MikeSmith@p15181-obmd01.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
# [02:37] <todun> Pomax: ok. thanks.
# [02:39] * Joins: techrush (~techrush@cpe-76-175-29-57.socal.res.rr.com)
# [02:41] * Quits: Jon47 (~Adium@c-67-180-11-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [02:42] * Joins: abraxas (~abraxas@113x33x180x18.ap113.ftth.ucom.ne.jp)
# [02:48] * Quits: todun (~todun@SEAS102.wlan.seas.upenn.edu) (Quit: :s)
# [02:57] * Joins: Vennril (~vennril@p4FCB0261.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
# [03:03] * Joins: todun_ (~todun@SEAS102.wlan.seas.upenn.edu)
# [03:03] * Quits: necolas (~necolas@5e0c3818.bb.sky.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [03:03] * Joins: abstrusenick (~abstrusen@180.241.173.51)
# [03:04] <abstrusenick> whats the usually app cache quita?
# [03:04] <abstrusenick> *quota?
# [03:09] * Quits: ldiamond (~ldiamond@bas1-montreal43-2925256794.dsl.bell.ca) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
# [03:10] <abraxas> abstrusenick: you mean html5 appcache, aka le manifest file? generally 5 MB on mobile devices (although ios will ask the user to allow more or not)
# [03:10] <abstrusenick> yes
# [03:10] <abraxas> localStorage limit is also generally 5 MB on mobile devices
# [03:10] <abstrusenick> on iOS is there any hard limit?
# [03:11] <abraxas> i've never hit any hard limit, but since the user will be prompted at 5 MB, you probably wanna stay below it
# [03:11] <abstrusenick> if i use local storage and app cache, will it assign 5mb on each or share 5mb for both?
# [03:11] <abraxas> I think android has a hard limit of 5 MB.
# [03:11] <abraxas> I believe it's 5 MB each, but you may wanna verify.
# [03:11] <abstrusenick> ok
# [03:12] <abstrusenick> I'm building a personal information management system that allows data to be persisted offline
# [03:12] <abstrusenick> do you know for large files such as images, what method is the best for offline mode?
# [03:12] <abraxas> if the images don't really change, such as UI, app cache is definitely a good thing
# [03:12] <abstrusenick> i believe app cache is perfect for this, but with the limit of 5mb i feel thats is way too low
# [03:13] <abraxas> localStorage is utf8, so you could storage base64 encoded images in it and then load them up with canvas, but it's not very efficient.
# [03:13] <abraxas> keep in mind, app cache is an all-or-nothing solution.. you add or remove 1 file, the entire cache is invalidated and all files are redownloaded
# [03:13] <abstrusenick> in some browsers, localstorage has hard limit of 5mb too
# [03:14] <abstrusenick> oh thats right
# [03:14] <abstrusenick> so thats definitely out
# [03:14] <abstrusenick> how about base64 on indexeddb or websql?
# [03:15] <abstrusenick> the base64 can be added to the img src i believe
# [03:15] * Joins: NickC_dev (~burt@65-36-77-202.dyn.grandenetworks.net)
# [03:15] <abraxas> same story, i guess
# [03:16] <abraxas> sure, it can, not very efficient, but possible
# [03:16] <abstrusenick> indexeddb and websql tends to be more spacious
# [03:16] <abraxas> but if you want your images to cache, why not use traditional methods?
# [03:16] <abraxas> last-modified
# [03:18] <abstrusenick> will that work when connection is off?
# [03:18] * Joins: sasori (~sasori@acl1-719bts.gw.smartbro.net)
# [03:18] <abstrusenick> on mobile i don't think that will work
# [03:22] * Quits: buribu (~buribu@unaffiliated/buribu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [03:23] <abraxas> it won't, you're right
# [03:23] * Joins: JonathanNeal (~Jonathan@cpe-67-49-67-212.socal.res.rr.com)
# [03:23] <abraxas> use appcache for UI, stuff that's always there
# [03:24] <abraxas> and mess with localStorage, etc for dynamic content
# [03:24] <abraxas> that's all I can suggest
# [03:24] * Parts: shichuan (~Shi_Chuan@31.205.41.171)
# [03:30] * Joins: cccaldas (~cccaldas@177.41.234.60)
# [03:32] * Quits: JeraldV (~jerald@199.119.234.2) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [03:33] * Joins: webguynow (~webguynow@c-24-1-222-204.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
# [03:36] * Joins: JeraldV (~jerald@199.119.234.2)
# [03:36] * Joins: tantek_ (~tantek@rtr.mozilla.or.jp)
# [03:39] * Joins: tantek__ (~tantek@wave.mozilla.or.jp)
# [03:39] * Joins: tantek___ (~tantek@rtr.mozilla.or.jp)
# [03:39] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@ai126212021109.5.tik.access-internet.ne.jp) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
# [03:39] * tantek___ is now known as tantek
# [03:39] * Quits: tantek_ (~tantek@rtr.mozilla.or.jp) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [03:42] * Joins: necolas (~necolas@5e0c3818.bb.sky.com)
# [03:43] * Quits: tantek__ (~tantek@wave.mozilla.or.jp) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [03:47] * Quits: cccaldas (~cccaldas@177.41.234.60) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [03:57] * Quits: todun_ (~todun@SEAS102.wlan.seas.upenn.edu) (Quit: :s)
# [04:02] * Joins: grantg (~chatzilla@69.88.160.3)
# [04:04] * Quits: NickC_dev (~burt@65-36-77-202.dyn.grandenetworks.net) (Quit: NickC_dev)
# [04:04] * Joins: pradeebv (~pradeebv@nat/yahoo/x-ikacynrleevcduio)
# [04:13] * Quits: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113) (Quit: Nice Scotty, now beam my clothes up too!)
# [04:14] * Joins: RobLoach (~RobLoach@drupal.org/user/61114/view)
# [04:24] * Quits: grantg (~chatzilla@69.88.160.3) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 9.0.1/20111220165912])
# [04:26] * Quits: aitiba (~aitiba@18.169.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [04:27] * Joins: carboncopy (~carboncop@175.136.57.54)
# [04:36] * Quits: webguynow (~webguynow@c-24-1-222-204.hsd1.il.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [04:39] * Joins: creativecitrus (~bwhite240@c-67-190-137-121.hsd1.co.comcast.net)
# [04:40] * creativecitrus is now known as c_prodigy
# [04:41] * Quits: dilvie (~chatzilla@c-24-23-230-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [04:46] <c_prodigy> Hello
# [04:46] <c_prodigy> Is it appropriate to use the section tag for a side bar?
# [04:46] <c_prodigy> or just a div?
# [04:48] * Joins: dissipate (~steve@74.7.227.105)
# [04:48] * Quits: dissipate (~steve@74.7.227.105) (Changing host)
# [04:48] * Joins: dissipate (~steve@unaffiliated/dissipate)
# [04:48] * Quits: necolas (~necolas@5e0c3818.bb.sky.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [04:50] * Quits: coeus (~coeus@dslb-084-061-060-194.pools.arcor-ip.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [04:51] <c_prodigy> anyone?
# [04:53] * Joins: Vennril2 (~vennril@p4FCB0A99.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
# [04:53] * Quits: Vennril (~vennril@p4FCB0261.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
# [04:53] * Vennril2 is now known as Vennril
# [04:57] * Quits: abstrusenick (~abstrusen@180.241.173.51) (Quit: abstrusenick)
# [04:57] * Joins: gavin_huang (~gravof@115.214.247.92)
# [05:00] * Parts: carboncopy (~carboncop@175.136.57.54) ("Leaving")
# [05:00] * Joins: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com)
# [05:01] * Quits: monteslu (~monteslu@ip68-109-174-213.ph.ph.cox.net) (Read error: Operation timed out)
# [05:01] * Joins: abstrusenick (~abstrusen@180.241.173.51)
# [05:08] <divya> aside
# [05:09] * Joins: cheilmann (~cheilmann@rtr.mozilla.or.jp)
# [05:11] * Joins: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113)
# [05:13] * Joins: monteslu (~monteslu@ip68-109-174-213.ph.ph.cox.net)
# [05:20] * Joins: DrAwesom_ (~DrAwesome@c-71-234-86-254.hsd1.ct.comcast.net)
# [05:20] * Quits: cheilmann (~cheilmann@rtr.mozilla.or.jp) (Quit: cheilmann)
# [05:22] * Joins: johnkpaul (~johnkpaul@205-214-226-18.static-ip.telepacific.net)
# [05:23] * Quits: DrAwesomeClaws (~DrAwesome@c-71-234-86-254.hsd1.ct.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
# [05:23] * Joins: bassplayerdoug (~bassplaye@97-85-153-116.static.stls.mo.charter.com)
# [05:24] * Quits: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) (Quit: Reading http://davidwalsh.name)
# [05:25] * Joins: cheilmann (~cheilmann@wave.mozilla.or.jp)
# [05:25] * Quits: cheilmann (~cheilmann@wave.mozilla.or.jp) (Client Quit)
# [05:27] * Quits: codewrangler (~codewrang@pool-72-66-12-100.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
# [05:27] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@rtr.mozilla.or.jp) (Quit: tantek)
# [05:36] * Quits: abstrusenick (~abstrusen@180.241.173.51) (Quit: abstrusenick)
# [05:36] * Joins: phpistasty (~phpistast@74-133-96-97.dhcp.insightbb.com)
# [05:39] * Quits: diogogmt (~kvirc@186.220.76.47) (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
# [05:39] * Quits: c_prodigy (~bwhite240@c-67-190-137-121.hsd1.co.comcast.net) (Quit: c_prodigy)
# [05:40] * Joins: icrazyhack (~horieyui@183.93.198.19)
# [05:49] * Joins: dilvie (~chatzilla@c-24-23-230-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
# [05:52] * Quits: gavin_huang (~gravof@115.214.247.92) (Quit: Leaving)
# [05:59] <phpistasty> I'm having a markup dilemma with article/section tags, anyone want to weigh in an opinion?
# [06:03] * Quits: bassplayerdoug (~bassplaye@97-85-153-116.static.stls.mo.charter.com) (Quit: Leaving...)
# [06:06] * Joins: shwetank (~shwetank@122.173.38.107)
# [06:08] * Quits: johnkpaul (~johnkpaul@205-214-226-18.static-ip.telepacific.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [06:08] * Joins: bassplayerdoug (~bassplaye@97-85-153-116.static.stls.mo.charter.com)
# [06:11] <phpistasty> Scratch it, I found a solution while reading an article that states it can contain a 'widget'
# [06:13] * Quits: bassplayerdoug (~bassplaye@97-85-153-116.static.stls.mo.charter.com) (Client Quit)
# [06:17] * Quits: pradeebv (~pradeebv@nat/yahoo/x-ikacynrleevcduio) (Quit: pradeebv)
# [06:17] * Joins: pradeebv (~pradeebv@nat/yahoo/x-ohbdyfbydvsytdrc)
# [06:19] * Quits: techrush (~techrush@cpe-76-175-29-57.socal.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
# [06:23] * Joins: bassplayerdoug (~bassplaye@97-85-153-116.static.stls.mo.charter.com)
# [06:38] * Quits: sephr (~Eli@c-98-235-63-240.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
# [06:40] * Joins: pradeebv_ (~pradeebv@nat/yahoo/x-daxjsedfydmeecpu)
# [06:40] * Joins: axos411 (~axos@xdsl-78-35-140-57.netcologne.de)
# [06:41] * Joins: NickC_dev (~burt@cpe-70-113-87-207.austin.res.rr.com)
# [06:41] * Quits: Pomax (~Pomax@64.180.151.138) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
# [06:41] * Parts: axos411 (~axos@xdsl-78-35-140-57.netcologne.de)
# [06:42] * Quits: JeraldV (~jerald@199.119.234.2) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [06:43] * Quits: pradeebv (~pradeebv@nat/yahoo/x-ohbdyfbydvsytdrc) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
# [06:43] * pradeebv_ is now known as pradeebv
# [06:45] * Quits: shwetank (~shwetank@122.173.38.107) (Quit: Leaving...)
# [06:46] * Joins: JeraldV (~jerald@199.119.234.2)
# [06:48] * Quits: Bass10 (Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Quit: Leaving)
# [06:51] * Quits: dissipate (~steve@unaffiliated/dissipate) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
# [06:53] * Joins: dissipate (~steve@unaffiliated/dissipate)
# [06:55] * Joins: dissipate_ (~steve@74.7.227.105)
# [06:58] * Quits: dissipate (~steve@unaffiliated/dissipate) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
# [06:58] * Joins: 45PAAOFGI (~todun@SEAS102.wlan.seas.upenn.edu)
# [06:58] * Quits: 45PAAOFGI (~todun@SEAS102.wlan.seas.upenn.edu) (Client Quit)
# [07:00] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@EM114-48-114-235.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp)
# [07:03] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@EM114-48-114-235.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp) (Client Quit)
# [07:03] * Quits: Vennril (~vennril@p4FCB0A99.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
# [07:04] * Quits: JeraldV (~jerald@199.119.234.2) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [07:07] * Joins: Pomax (~Pomax@64.180.151.138)
# [07:08] * Joins: BigKing (~BigKing@dslb-146-060-124-005.pools.arcor-ip.net)
# [07:12] * Joins: dgathright (~dgathrigh@c-67-169-92-165.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
# [07:13] * Joins: Lars_ (~larssmit@a80-101-110-66.adsl.xs4all.nl)
# [07:14] * Quits: Lars_ (~larssmit@a80-101-110-66.adsl.xs4all.nl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [07:14] * Joins: Lars_ (~larssmit@a80-101-110-66.adsl.xs4all.nl)
# [07:15] * Quits: tristanseifert (~tristanse@c-67-164-14-81.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [07:16] * Quits: kadiks (~kadiks@APuteaux-652-1-255-141.w82-124.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Leaving)
# [07:22] * Joins: dr0id (~andy@unaffiliated/dr0id)
# [07:22] * Quits: pradeebv (~pradeebv@nat/yahoo/x-daxjsedfydmeecpu) (Quit: pradeebv)
# [07:23] * Joins: intacta (~intacta@128-74-131-202.broadband.corbina.ru)
# [07:26] * Quits: BigKing (~BigKing@dslb-146-060-124-005.pools.arcor-ip.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [07:26] * Joins: JonathanNeal1 (~Jonathan@cpe-67-49-67-212.socal.res.rr.com)
# [07:26] * Quits: Lars_ (~larssmit@a80-101-110-66.adsl.xs4all.nl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [07:26] * Joins: Lars__ (~larssmit@a80-101-110-66.adsl.xs4all.nl)
# [07:27] * Joins: fullsailor (~fullsailo@ip24-250-174-76.ga.at.cox.net)
# [07:28] * Quits: JonathanNeal (~Jonathan@cpe-67-49-67-212.socal.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
# [07:28] * Quits: Lars__ (~larssmit@a80-101-110-66.adsl.xs4all.nl) (Client Quit)
# [07:29] * Joins: pradeebv (~pradeebv@nat/yahoo/x-jdpgridoutxboenm)
# [07:31] * Joins: Lars_ (~larssmit@a80-101-110-66.adsl.xs4all.nl)
# [07:32] * Joins: axos411 (~axos@xdsl-78-35-140-57.netcologne.de)
# [07:33] * Joins: yolin (~niloy@122.179.129.91)
# [07:37] * Joins: JeraldV (~jerald@199.119.234.2)
# [07:38] * Quits: yolin (~niloy@122.179.129.91) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [07:40] * Joins: niloy_ (~niloy@122.179.129.91)
# [07:41] * Quits: obert- (~obert@host68-206-dynamic.47-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [07:42] * Joins: obert- (~obert@host68-206-dynamic.47-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
# [07:43] * Quits: bassplayerdoug (~bassplaye@97-85-153-116.static.stls.mo.charter.com) (Quit: Leaving...)
# [07:45] * Joins: decthomas (decthomas@nat/netlash/x-xbrsnwavkudjlfkn)
# [07:46] * Joins: drublic (~drublic@vpn7.hotsplots.net)
# [07:46] * Quits: decthomas (decthomas@nat/netlash/x-xbrsnwavkudjlfkn) (Client Quit)
# [07:46] * Parts: intacta (~intacta@128-74-131-202.broadband.corbina.ru)
# [07:49] * Quits: moshee (~moshee@unaffiliated/moshee) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
# [07:49] * Joins: moshee (~moshee@unaffiliated/moshee)
# [07:50] * Quits: teleject (~christoph@cpe-72-177-94-231.austin.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
# [07:56] * Quits: intellilogic (~intellilo@static-96-241-182-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
# [07:56] * Quits: NickC_dev (~burt@cpe-70-113-87-207.austin.res.rr.com) (Quit: NickC_dev)
# [07:56] * Joins: deasy (~deasy@85.201.207.128)
# [07:59] * Quits: icrazyhack (~horieyui@183.93.198.19) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [08:00] * Joins: icrazyhack (~horieyui@183.60.101.86)
# [08:01] * Joins: decthomas (decthomas@nat/netlash/x-zudvfjmqwzplhqlk)
# [08:03] * Quits: doritoDan (~doritoDan@unaffiliated/doritodan) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [08:04] * Joins: horieyui (~horieyui@183.93.198.19)
# [08:04] * Quits: icrazyhack (~horieyui@183.60.101.86) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [08:05] * Quits: dissipate_ (~steve@74.7.227.105) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [08:08] * Joins: jetienne (~jerome@ivr94-6-82-230-255-246.fbx.proxad.net)
# [08:09] * Quits: materialdesigner (~cah276@cpe-67-255-5-62.twcny.res.rr.com) (Quit: materialdesigner)
# [08:12] * Quits: niloy_ (~niloy@122.179.129.91) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [08:16] * Joins: xec (~xec@188.95.241.142)
# [08:16] * Quits: pradeebv (~pradeebv@nat/yahoo/x-jdpgridoutxboenm) (Quit: pradeebv)
# [08:17] * Quits: patcito (~123@190.237.228.11) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [08:18] * Quits: Lars_ (~larssmit@a80-101-110-66.adsl.xs4all.nl) (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi)
# [08:27] * Quits: JonathanNeal1 (~Jonathan@cpe-67-49-67-212.socal.res.rr.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [08:30] * Joins: roel_ (~quassel@d54C236E3.access.telenet.be)
# [08:35] * Quits: RobLoach (~RobLoach@drupal.org/user/61114/view) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [08:38] * Parts: dr0id (~andy@unaffiliated/dr0id)
# [08:41] * Quits: drublic (~drublic@vpn7.hotsplots.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [08:41] * Quits: mike5w3c (~MikeSmith@p15181-obmd01.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) (Quit: mike5w3c)
# [08:45] * Joins: shwetank (~shwetank@122.173.38.107)
# [08:46] * Joins: glcrazy (~SiRiuS@rdslink-v90-211.suceava.rdsnet.ro)
# [08:46] * Joins: gyzmodo (x@89.146.108.109)
# [08:46] * Quits: jochen__ (jochen@nat/google/x-fyusjlixicjytapo) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [08:46] * Joins: jochen__ (jochen@nat/google/x-hvhzaipsgfaeiyyc)
# [08:50] * Quits: shwetank (~shwetank@122.173.38.107) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
# [08:51] * Joins: kevindougans (~kevindoug@106.Red-213-96-89.staticIP.rima-tde.net)
# [08:54] * Joins: simenbrekken (~simenbrek@77.40.186.130)
# [08:56] * Joins: bot-t1 (~bot-t@unaffiliated/temp01/bot/bot-t)
# [08:56] * Quits: bot-t (~bot-t@unaffiliated/temp01/bot/bot-t) (Disconnected by services)
# [08:56] * Quits: bot-t1 (~bot-t@unaffiliated/temp01/bot/bot-t) (Excess Flood)
# [08:57] * Joins: sedovsek (robert.sed@93-103-104-107.dynamic.t-2.net)
# [09:00] * Joins: shwetank (~shwetank@122.173.38.107)
# [09:01] * Quits: simenbrekken (~simenbrek@77.40.186.130) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [09:01] * Joins: simenbrekken (~simenbrek@77.40.186.130)
# [09:03] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@i118-21-136-4.s30.a048.ap.plala.or.jp)
# [09:07] * Quits: replore_ (~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [09:09] * Joins: memoryleak (~memorylea@fw.resource.ch)
# [09:10] * Joins: doritoDan (~doritoDan@unaffiliated/doritodan)
# [09:11] * Quits: |PiP| (~PiP@CPE68efbdb817c9-CM0011aea71a92.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
# [09:11] * Joins: mike5w3c (~MikeSmith@p15181-obmd01.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
# [09:14] * Joins: bot-t (~bot-t@unaffiliated/temp01/bot/bot-t)
# [09:15] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@i118-21-136-4.s30.a048.ap.plala.or.jp) (Quit: tantek)
# [09:20] * Quits: insin (~insin@host109-153-223-163.range109-153.btcentralplus.com) (Quit: What's the point in giving us haaaaannnds?)
# [09:21] * Joins: kas187 (~kas187@cpc9-sotn11-2-0-cust242.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com)
# [09:21] * Joins: keithclarkcouk (~keithclar@84.19.53.21)
# [09:22] * Joins: tsatse (~tsatse@2a01:e35:8b7c:5310:21a:73ff:fe8d:5cbe)
# [09:24] * Joins: niloy (~niloy@122.179.129.91)
# [09:24] * Quits: kas187 (~kas187@cpc9-sotn11-2-0-cust242.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com) (Quit: kas187)
# [09:25] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.181.127.125)
# [09:25] * Joins: kas187 (~kas187@cpc9-sotn11-2-0-cust242.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com)
# [09:25] * Quits: kas187 (~kas187@cpc9-sotn11-2-0-cust242.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com) (Client Quit)
# [09:26] * Joins: kas187 (~kas187@cpc9-sotn11-2-0-cust242.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com)
# [09:26] * Quits: kas187 (~kas187@cpc9-sotn11-2-0-cust242.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com) (Client Quit)
# [09:26] * Joins: kas187 (~kas187@cpc9-sotn11-2-0-cust242.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com)
# [09:26] * Quits: kas187 (~kas187@cpc9-sotn11-2-0-cust242.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com) (Client Quit)
# [09:27] * Joins: bibo360 (~bibo360@159.71.64.86.rev.sfr.net)
# [09:27] * Joins: kas187 (~kas187@cpc9-sotn11-2-0-cust242.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com)
# [09:33] * Joins: pocopina (~pocopina@li298-99.members.linode.com)
# [09:33] * Joins: aesptux (~aesptux@213.37.205.217.dyn.user.ono.com)
# [09:38] * Joins: Trisox (~Trisox@dw87236798.amsterdam-tc.dataweb.net)
# [09:39] * Quits: niloy (~niloy@122.179.129.91) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
# [09:40] * Joins: beevits (~beeviz@78.47.226.217)
# [09:41] * Joins: johnoxton (~johnoxton@nat/canonical/x-jzqwojtjlgmxhtan)
# [09:42] * Quits: johnoxton (~johnoxton@nat/canonical/x-jzqwojtjlgmxhtan) (Client Quit)
# [09:43] * Joins: shaDykhan (~shaDykhan@c-67-184-85-179.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
# [09:43] * Joins: johnoxton (~johnoxton@nat/canonical/x-podxydnwcknwwtnh)
# [09:43] * Quits: shaDykhan (~shaDykhan@c-67-184-85-179.hsd1.il.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [09:45] * Joins: shaDykhan (~shaDykhan@c-67-184-85-179.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
# [09:45] * Quits: dgathright (~dgathrigh@c-67-169-92-165.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: dgathright)
# [09:48] * Joins: mishunov (~spliter@77.88.72.162)
# [09:50] * Joins: whitman (whitman@itsad-034.its.dur.ac.uk)
# [09:50] * Joins: Jonadabe (~Jonadabe@bl8-127-141.dsl.telepac.pt)
# [09:51] * Joins: niloy (~niloy@122.179.129.91)
# [10:01] * Quits: niloy (~niloy@122.179.129.91) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
# [10:01] * Joins: PalleZingmark (~Adium@217.13.228.226)
# [10:04] * Quits: gniourf_gniourf (~Gniourf@2a01:e35:2433:3b90:222:41ff:fe23:8d8e) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
# [10:05] * Joins: jacobolu_ (~jacobolus@50-0-133-210.dsl.static.sonic.net)
# [10:05] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@50-0-133-210.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Read error: No route to host)
# [10:06] * Quits: horieyui (~horieyui@183.93.198.19) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
# [10:06] * Joins: palehorse (~palehorse@46.235.233.46)
# [10:07] * Quits: Jonadabe (~Jonadabe@bl8-127-141.dsl.telepac.pt) (Read error: No route to host)
# [10:07] * Quits: doritoDan (~doritoDan@unaffiliated/doritodan) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [10:08] * Quits: beevits (~beeviz@78.47.226.217) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [10:12] * Joins: doritoDan (~doritoDan@unaffiliated/doritodan)
# [10:14] * Quits: glcrazy (~SiRiuS@rdslink-v90-211.suceava.rdsnet.ro) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [10:16] * Quits: dilvie (~chatzilla@c-24-23-230-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [10:21] * Joins: gavin_huang (~gravof@115.214.247.92)
# [10:21] * Joins: robhawkes (~robhawkes@188-220-16-96.dsl.cnl.uk.net)
# [10:22] * Joins: bassplayerdoug (~bassplaye@97-85-153-116.static.stls.mo.charter.com)
# [10:24] * Quits: devongovett (~devongove@pcp038545pcs.morro.reshall.calpoly.edu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [10:24] * Joins: adrinux (~adrinux@93.89.134.219)
# [10:24] * Joins: devongovett (~devongove@pcp038545pcs.morro.reshall.calpoly.edu)
# [10:27] * Parts: adrinux (~adrinux@93.89.134.219)
# [10:28] * Quits: devongovett (~devongove@pcp038545pcs.morro.reshall.calpoly.edu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [10:28] * Joins: devongovett (~devongove@pcp038545pcs.morro.reshall.calpoly.edu)
# [10:29] * Joins: Jonadabe (~Jonadabe@bl8-127-141.dsl.telepac.pt)
# [10:32] * Joins: JakeA (~Adium@93-97-17-15.zone5.bethere.co.uk)
# [10:32] * Quits: devongovett (~devongove@pcp038545pcs.morro.reshall.calpoly.edu) (Client Quit)
# [10:42] * Joins: manuchill (~mstalfoor@83.232.96.217)
# [10:46] * Joins: unknown_had (~unknown@unaffiliated/unknown-had/x-1628802)
# [10:46] * Parts: unknown_had (~unknown@unaffiliated/unknown-had/x-1628802) ("Leaving")
# [10:56] * Joins: Stava (~Stava@ip232-rld-sdt.tyfon.se)
# [10:57] * Joins: hemm (~hemm@132.252.112.133)
# [10:59] * Quits: hemm (~hemm@132.252.112.133) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [10:59] * Joins: hemm (~hemm@132.252.112.133)
# [11:05] * Quits: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113) (Quit: Hi, I'm a quit message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over the world of IRC.)
# [11:13] * Joins: bittyx-work (~User@unaffiliated/bittyx)
# [11:13] * Joins: thec13 (~thec@ip68-98-45-81.ph.ph.cox.net)
# [11:18] <bittyx-work> hi! can anyone point me to a list of valid characters that can be inserted <meta name="description" content="***HERE***" /> ? (list/definition/anything will do)
# [11:19] <moo^_^> bittyx-work: all HTML attribute characters are valid
# [11:20] * Quits: keithclarkcouk (~keithclar@84.19.53.21) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [11:21] <bittyx-work> moo^_^: is that this (from the reference): Attribute values are a mixture of text and character references, except with the additional restriction that the text cannot contain an ambiguous ampersand. ?
# [11:22] <moo^_^> bittyx-work: sounds right
# [11:22] <moo^_^> everything but not "
# [11:23] <bittyx-work> i'm actually wondering whether this would be okay: <meta name="description" content=" />" /> - in this case, the content would be correctly parsed as a space, a slash, and a greater-than sign, or should that be written as <meta nem="description content=" />" /> ?
# [11:23] <bittyx-work> ie. are both valid according to the standard? (i can't seem to find that)
# [11:24] <moo^_^> you don't need to escape < inside attributes
# [11:24] <moo^_^> bittyx-work: and you can quickly test with any online HTML validator
# [11:24] * Quits: s_segawa (~s_segawa@221x251x236x110.ap221.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) (Quit: Leaving...)
# [11:24] <bittyx-work> moo^_^: oh, cool. thank you very much.
# [11:25] * Joins: tobyx (~tobyx@fsf/member/tobyx)
# [11:30] * Quits: thec13 (~thec@ip68-98-45-81.ph.ph.cox.net) (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi)
# [11:32] * Joins: cccaldas (~cccaldas@177.40.220.55)
# [11:36] * Joins: sean` (~seankoole@D97A9E4C.cm-3-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
# [11:40] * Joins: andrewjbaker (~ajb@ip-81-23-63-2.ask4internet.com)
# [11:42] * Quits: obert- (~obert@host68-206-dynamic.47-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
# [11:45] * Quits: shaDykhan (~shaDykhan@c-67-184-85-179.hsd1.il.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [11:47] * Quits: cccaldas (~cccaldas@177.40.220.55) (Quit: Lost terminal)
# [11:54] * Joins: howlymowly (~quassel@tubsat.fb12.tu-berlin.de)
# [11:57] * Joins: obert- (~obert@host238-207-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
# [11:58] * Quits: bot-t (~bot-t@unaffiliated/temp01/bot/bot-t) (Disconnected by services)
# [11:58] * Joins: bot-t1 (~bot-t@unaffiliated/temp01/bot/bot-t)
# [11:58] * Quits: bot-t1 (~bot-t@unaffiliated/temp01/bot/bot-t) (Excess Flood)
# [11:58] * Quits: JNZ (JNZ@unaffiliated/jnz) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [11:58] * Quits: temp02 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
# [11:58] * Joins: cccaldas (~cccaldas@177.40.220.55)
# [11:59] * Joins: nonge_ (~nonge@p5082BBF8.dip.t-dialin.net)
# [12:00] * Joins: cheilmann_ (~cheilmann@softbank219215198166.bbtec.net)
# [12:01] * Joins: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01)
# [12:01] * Joins: bot-t (~bot-t@unaffiliated/temp01/bot/bot-t)
# [12:02] * Quits: nonge (~nonge@p5B326BB5.dip.t-dialin.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [12:03] * Joins: shaDykhan (~shaDykhan@c-67-184-85-179.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
# [12:05] * Quits: mishunov (~spliter@77.88.72.162) (Quit: mishunov)
# [12:05] * Quits: kas187 (~kas187@cpc9-sotn11-2-0-cust242.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com) (Quit: kas187)
# [12:06] * Quits: bittyx-work (~User@unaffiliated/bittyx) (Quit: Leaving)
# [12:12] * Joins: sephr (~Eli@c-98-235-63-240.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
# [12:12] * Quits: cheilmann_ (~cheilmann@softbank219215198166.bbtec.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [12:18] * Quits: shaDykhan (~shaDykhan@c-67-184-85-179.hsd1.il.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [12:18] * Quits: mike5w3c (~MikeSmith@p15181-obmd01.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) (Quit: mike5w3c)
# [12:26] * Joins: sanbar (~ScottSanb@unaffiliated/scottsanbar)
# [12:27] * Quits: abraxas (~abraxas@113x33x180x18.ap113.ftth.ucom.ne.jp) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [12:27] * Joins: bot-t1 (~bot-t@unaffiliated/temp01/bot/bot-t)
# [12:27] * Quits: bot-t (~bot-t@unaffiliated/temp01/bot/bot-t) (Disconnected by services)
# [12:27] * Quits: bot-t1 (~bot-t@unaffiliated/temp01/bot/bot-t) (Excess Flood)
# [12:28] * Joins: bot-t (~bot-t@unaffiliated/temp01/bot/bot-t)
# [12:28] * Quits: bot-t (~bot-t@unaffiliated/temp01/bot/bot-t) (Excess Flood)
# [12:29] * Quits: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
# [12:29] * Joins: temp02 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01)
# [12:30] * Joins: bot-t (~bot-t@unaffiliated/temp01/bot/bot-t)
# [12:33] * Joins: LongBeach (~mike@AFontenayssB-152-1-11-228.w82-121.abo.wanadoo.fr)
# [12:38] * Quits: bassplayerdoug (~bassplaye@97-85-153-116.static.stls.mo.charter.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [12:38] * Joins: doug- (~bassplaye@97-85-153-116.static.stls.mo.charter.com)
# [12:38] * Quits: moshee (~moshee@unaffiliated/moshee) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
# [12:38] * Joins: moshee (~moshee@unaffiliated/moshee)
# [12:42] * Joins: mishunov (~spliter@77.88.72.162)
# [12:47] * Joins: danielfilho (~daniel@187.31.77.7)
# [12:53] * Quits: FireFly (~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly) (Excess Flood)
# [12:54] * Joins: FireFly (~firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com)
# [12:55] * Quits: _inc (~inc@unaffiliated/-inc/x-0498339) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
# [12:55] * Joins: _inc (~inc@unaffiliated/-inc/x-0498339)
# [12:58] * Joins: necolas (~necolas@5e0c3818.bb.sky.com)
# [13:01] * Joins: sean`` (~seankoole@D97A9E4C.cm-3-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
# [13:01] * Quits: sean` (~seankoole@D97A9E4C.cm-3-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [13:04] * Joins: shaDykhan (~shaDykhan@c-67-184-85-179.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
# [13:04] * Quits: shaDykhan (~shaDykhan@c-67-184-85-179.hsd1.il.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [13:09] * Joins: shaDykhan (~shaDykhan@c-67-184-85-179.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
# [13:11] * Joins: hciftci (~memorylea@fw.resource.ch)
# [13:11] * Quits: hciftci (~memorylea@fw.resource.ch) (Client Quit)
# [13:13] * Quits: memoryleak (~memorylea@fw.resource.ch) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
# [13:14] * Quits: axos411 (~axos@xdsl-78-35-140-57.netcologne.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [13:15] * Quits: shaDykhan (~shaDykhan@c-67-184-85-179.hsd1.il.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [13:16] * Joins: axos411 (~axos@xdsl-78-35-155-187.netcologne.de)
# [13:24] * Quits: dmachi1 (~dmachi@pool-72-66-209-165.ronkva.east.verizon.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [13:24] * Joins: dmachi (~dmachi@pool-72-66-209-165.ronkva.east.verizon.net)
# [13:25] * Joins: T-Baggin (~benv@99-7-171-41.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net)
# [13:28] * Quits: benv (~benv@99-7-171-41.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [13:28] * Quits: pocopina (~pocopina@li298-99.members.linode.com) (Quit: Leaving)
# [13:31] * Joins: pocopina (~pocopina@li298-99.members.linode.com)
# [13:33] * Joins: pocopina_ (u5310@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xkpoftxpgiqekwhp)
# [13:39] * Quits: pocopina (~pocopina@li298-99.members.linode.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [13:39] * pocopina_ is now known as pocopina
# [13:39] * Joins: galfert (~galfert@i59F7B502.versanet.de)
# [13:42] * Joins: djazz (~djazz@static-212.214.85.166.addr.tdcsong.se)
# [13:59] * Joins: dr0id (~andy@unaffiliated/dr0id)
# [13:59] * Quits: dr0id (~andy@unaffiliated/dr0id) (Client Quit)
# [13:59] * Quits: mishunov (~spliter@77.88.72.162) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [13:59] * Joins: kas187 (~kas187@exchange-02.abasoft.co.uk)
# [14:00] * Joins: mishunov (~spliter@77.88.72.162)
# [14:01] * Quits: jetienne (~jerome@ivr94-6-82-230-255-246.fbx.proxad.net) (Quit: i love javascript and webgl. see http://pacmaze.com)
# [14:01] * Joins: jetienne (~jerome@ivr94-6-82-230-255-246.fbx.proxad.net)
# [14:04] * Joins: serroba (~serroba@190-20-220-58.baf.movistar.cl)
# [14:08] * Joins: serroba_ (~serroba@190-20-243-232.baf.movistar.cl)
# [14:10] * Quits: serroba (~serroba@190-20-220-58.baf.movistar.cl) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
# [14:12] * Joins: Hopsy (~kvirc@188.206.47.42)
# [14:13] * Joins: mike5w3c (~MikeSmith@p15181-obmd01.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp)
# [14:14] * Quits: debsan (~debsan@190.245.74.16) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
# [14:15] * Joins: debsan (~debsan@190.245.74.16)
# [14:16] * Quits: hemm (~hemm@132.252.112.133) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [14:16] * Joins: memoryleak (~memorylea@fw.resource.ch)
# [14:16] * Joins: sean` (~seankoole@D97A9E4C.cm-3-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
# [14:17] * Joins: hemm (~hemm@dhcp-ce112133.wt.uni-duisburg-essen.de)
# [14:17] * Joins: digitalfiz (~fiz@unaffiliated/digitalfiz)
# [14:18] * Quits: sean`` (~seankoole@D97A9E4C.cm-3-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
# [14:20] * Joins: Hopsy|2 (~kvirc@77.63.180.232)
# [14:20] * Quits: debsan (~debsan@190.245.74.16) (Max SendQ exceeded)
# [14:21] * Joins: debsan (~debsan@190.245.74.16)
# [14:23] * Quits: Hopsy (~kvirc@188.206.47.42) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [14:24] * Joins: erichynds (~ehynds@venkman.brightcove.com)
# [14:29] * Quits: sephr (~Eli@c-98-235-63-240.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
# [14:31] * Joins: plh_ (~plh@209-6-123-224.c3-0.arl-ubr1.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com)
# [14:33] * Quits: msponge (~msponge@18.189.103.48) (Quit: msponge)
# [14:33] * Quits: serroba_ (~serroba@190-20-243-232.baf.movistar.cl) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [14:35] * Joins: ryan_tait (~ryan_tait@209.47.38.69)
# [14:38] * Joins: keithclarkcouk (~keithclar@84.19.53.21)
# [14:39] * Joins: codewrangler (~codewrang@pool-72-66-12-100.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
# [14:39] * Quits: deasy (~deasy@85.201.207.128) (Quit: Nom d'un quark, c'est Edmonton!)
# [14:41] * Joins: beevits (~beeviz@78.47.226.217)
# [14:46] <kas187> using native html5 form validation, is there a way to test a group of elements, for example a mandatory question with a set of radio buttons as options http://jsfiddle.net/SqufK/5/
# [14:48] <kas187> I'm not sure if i'll have to use javascript for that scenario
# [14:54] * Parts: djazz (~djazz@static-212.214.85.166.addr.tdcsong.se)
# [14:54] * Quits: necolas (~necolas@5e0c3818.bb.sky.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [14:57] * Joins: devmikey (~irc@unaffiliated/devmikey)
# [14:58] * Quits: aesptux (~aesptux@213.37.205.217.dyn.user.ono.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
# [14:58] * Joins: johnkpaul (~johnkpaul@205-214-226-18.static-ip.telepacific.net)
# [14:59] * Joins: squeakytoy (hidden-use@ns.netset.se)
# [15:00] * nonge_ is now known as nonge
# [15:06] * Quits: moshee (~moshee@unaffiliated/moshee) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
# [15:06] * Joins: moshee (~moshee@c-50-135-229-127.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
# [15:06] * Quits: moshee (~moshee@c-50-135-229-127.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Changing host)
# [15:06] * Joins: moshee (~moshee@unaffiliated/moshee)
# [15:07] * Joins: msponge (~msponge@18.189.103.48)
# [15:10] * Quits: OzDave_imac (~OzDave@27-33-43-79.static.tpgi.com.au) (Quit: OzDave_imac)
# [15:12] * Joins: johnoxton_ (~johnoxton@nat/canonical/x-tiernumkjsuhiwvh)
# [15:12] * Quits: kevindougans (~kevindoug@106.Red-213-96-89.staticIP.rima-tde.net) (Quit: kevindougans)
# [15:13] * Joins: Vennril (~vennril@p4FCB0A99.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
# [15:13] * Quits: johnoxton (~johnoxton@nat/canonical/x-podxydnwcknwwtnh) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [15:14] <jetienne> question about .querySelector()... does this traverse the DOM depth-first or width-first ?
# [15:17] * Joins: TomCl (~tom@d54C024EB.access.telenet.be)
# [15:17] * Quits: TomCl (~tom@d54C024EB.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [15:19] * Joins: deasy (~deasy@85.201.207.128)
# [15:21] * Quits: beevits (~beeviz@78.47.226.217) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [15:23] <ryan_tait> depth first
# [15:31] * Joins: aesptux (~aesptux@213.37.205.217.dyn.user.ono.com)
# [15:32] * Joins: RobLoach (~RobLoach@drupal.org/user/61114/view)
# [15:33] * Joins: ericduran (~ericduran@cpe-68-175-80-234.nyc.res.rr.com)
# [15:33] <moo^_^> jetienne: right to left
# [15:34] <jetienne> ryan_tait: thanks
# [15:34] <jetienne> moo^_^: what do you mean right to left ?
# [15:34] <jetienne> moo^_^: i mean a tree, as data structure, has no right or left. can you explain ?
# [15:34] <moo^_^> yes
# [15:34] <moo^_^> one second
# [15:34] <jetienne> ok
# [15:36] <moo^_^> jetienne: https://twitter.com/#!/moo9000/status/154882466455363584 querySelector() follows the same rules as CSS processing
# [15:36] <socialhapy> ★ Tweet from moo9000: Optimizing CSS with a #opera profiler http://t.co/4Zb3yl2d - save hundreds of milliseconds in page loading times #web #dev #html5 ★ http://bit.ly/wBCPbM
# [15:36] * Quits: FireFly (~firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com) (Excess Flood)
# [15:36] <moo^_^> at least based on consensus on this channel :)
# [15:37] <jetienne> oh ok :)
# [15:37] <jetienne> you mean to read the selector, not to crawl the tree
# [15:37] <jetienne> moo^_^: got it thanks
# [15:37] <moo^_^> ah
# [15:37] * Joins: FireFly (~firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com)
# [15:38] <moo^_^> sorry
# [15:38] <moo^_^> you meant the resulting tree output?
# [15:38] <jetienne> moo^_^: yes
# [15:38] <ryan_tait> jetienne: yw the w3c selectors api states depth-first pre-order traversal of the DOM tree or subtree in question
# [15:38] <jetienne> ryan_tait: ok. pre-order means what ?
# [15:39] * jetienne is coding a dom selector ala css
# [15:40] <ryan_tait> jetienne: the order in which the start tags occur in the text representation of the document
# [15:40] <ryan_tait> just quoting w3c :)
# [15:41] <jetienne> ryan_tait: got it :)
# [15:44] <moo^_^> ryan_tait, the talking spec :)
# [15:44] <ryan_tait> lol I really know nothing
# [15:45] <ryan_tait> i just speak the wisdom of the docs
# [15:45] * Joins: ldiamond (~ldiamond@bas1-montreal43-2925256794.dsl.bell.ca)
# [15:45] * Joins: rupl (~anonymous@cpe-66-25-171-137.austin.res.rr.com)
# [15:53] * Quits: socialhapy (~socialhap@46-38-167-162.static.cloud-ips.co.uk) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [15:53] * Joins: socialhapy (~socialhap@46-38-167-162.static.cloud-ips.co.uk)
# [15:54] * Joins: coeus (~coeus@dslb-084-061-060-194.pools.arcor-ip.net)
# [15:54] * Joins: tmds (~tmds@gateway/tor-sasl/tmds)
# [15:56] * Joins: adrinux (~adrinux@93.89.134.219)
# [15:57] * Quits: memoryleak (~memorylea@fw.resource.ch) (Quit: memoryleak)
# [15:57] * Joins: johnoxton (~johnoxton@nat/canonical/x-kqttpcrjbpljjtug)
# [15:58] * Quits: johnoxton (~johnoxton@nat/canonical/x-kqttpcrjbpljjtug) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [15:58] * Joins: johnoxton (~johnoxton@nat/canonical/x-czvrboafdlqogkxo)
# [15:59] * Quits: johnoxton_ (~johnoxton@nat/canonical/x-tiernumkjsuhiwvh) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [15:59] * Parts: adrinux (~adrinux@93.89.134.219)
# [16:00] * Quits: galfert (~galfert@i59F7B502.versanet.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [16:00] * Joins: blackjid (~jidonoso@pc-120-163-47-190.cm.vtr.net)
# [16:01] * Joins: galfert (~galfert@i59F7B502.versanet.de)
# [16:04] * Joins: sedovsek` (robert.sed@93-103-104-107.dynamic.t-2.net)
# [16:04] * Quits: mishunov (~spliter@77.88.72.162) (Quit: mishunov)
# [16:06] * Quits: sedovsek (robert.sed@93-103-104-107.dynamic.t-2.net) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
# [16:13] * Quits: rupl (~anonymous@cpe-66-25-171-137.austin.res.rr.com) (Quit: rupl)
# [16:15] * Parts: ldiamond (~ldiamond@bas1-montreal43-2925256794.dsl.bell.ca) ("Leaving")
# [16:16] * Quits: tmds (~tmds@gateway/tor-sasl/tmds) (Quit: Leaving)
# [16:20] * Joins: MisterSpeaker (~MisterSpe@zenexity.pck.nerim.net)
# [16:22] * Quits: phpistasty (~phpistast@74-133-96-97.dhcp.insightbb.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
# [16:23] * Joins: iamdustan (~DustanKas@rrcs-70-61-101-162.midsouth.biz.rr.com)
# [16:27] * Joins: bribroder (~bribroder@unaffiliated/bribroder)
# [16:32] * Joins: gavinsmith (~gavinsmit@CPEe05fb90cc8fb-CM00222ddfdbcd.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)
# [16:34] * Quits: keithclarkcouk (~keithclar@84.19.53.21) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [16:35] * Joins: rupl (anonymous@rrcs-24-173-111-218.sw.biz.rr.com)
# [16:36] * Quits: FireFly (~firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com) (Excess Flood)
# [16:40] * Joins: FireFly (~firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com)
# [16:40] * Joins: Po{teaLOL (~Pomax@64.180.151.138)
# [16:41] * Joins: Lars_ (~larssmit@84.241.204.180)
# [16:41] * Quits: Pomax (~Pomax@64.180.151.138) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
# [16:41] * Quits: gavin_huang (~gravof@115.214.247.92) (Quit: Leaving)
# [16:42] * Quits: simenbrekken (~simenbrek@77.40.186.130) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [16:44] * Joins: techrush (~techrush@cpe-76-175-29-57.socal.res.rr.com)
# [16:49] * Quits: debsan (~debsan@190.245.74.16) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
# [16:49] * Quits: msponge (~msponge@18.189.103.48) (Quit: msponge)
# [16:50] * Quits: decthomas (decthomas@nat/netlash/x-zudvfjmqwzplhqlk) (Quit: decthomas)
# [17:02] * Joins: debsan (~debsan@190.245.74.16)
# [17:02] * Quits: kobsu (kobsu@hilla.kapsi.fi) (Quit: leaving)
# [17:02] * Joins: mantas322 (c0cb7a65@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.203.122.101)
# [17:02] <mantas322> my local storage has an issue with < and >
# [17:02] <mantas322> says unexpected blah blah blah
# [17:02] * Quits: monteslu (~monteslu@ip68-109-174-213.ph.ph.cox.net) (Read error: Operation timed out)
# [17:06] * Quits: techrush (~techrush@cpe-76-175-29-57.socal.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [17:06] * Quits: johnkpaul (~johnkpaul@205-214-226-18.static-ip.telepacific.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [17:07] <mantas322> nevermind
# [17:07] * Quits: debsan (~debsan@190.245.74.16) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
# [17:09] * Quits: roel_ (~quassel@d54C236E3.access.telenet.be) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [17:09] * Quits: Trisox (~Trisox@dw87236798.amsterdam-tc.dataweb.net) (Quit: Leaving...)
# [17:10] * Joins: Hopsy (~kvirc@77.62.3.130)
# [17:10] * Joins: Ron_D (~Chevalric@5355A4C1.cm-6-6c.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
# [17:12] * Joins: NickC_dev (~burt@cpe-70-113-87-207.austin.res.rr.com)
# [17:12] * Joins: techrush (~techrush@cpe-76-175-29-57.socal.res.rr.com)
# [17:12] * Quits: Hopsy|2 (~kvirc@77.63.180.232) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [17:12] * Quits: techrush (~techrush@cpe-76-175-29-57.socal.res.rr.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [17:14] * Joins: monteslu (~monteslu@ip68-109-174-213.ph.ph.cox.net)
# [17:17] * Quits: remysharp (u4345@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zfytypfjzpcnhtyt) (Excess Flood)
# [17:17] * Quits: tiglionabbit (u2654@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zqvgiypgkogzscea) (Max SendQ exceeded)
# [17:17] * Joins: remysharp (u4345@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tpwjehwhgfqgxzqv)
# [17:17] * Joins: tiglionabbit (u2654@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sujyqimtbgwrrtsu)
# [17:18] * Quits: Ron_D (~Chevalric@5355A4C1.cm-6-6c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Quit: Ron_D)
# [17:21] * Joins: Ron_D (~Chevalric@5355A4C1.cm-6-6c.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
# [17:21] * Quits: Ron_D (~Chevalric@5355A4C1.cm-6-6c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Client Quit)
# [17:22] * Quits: PalleZingmark (~Adium@217.13.228.226) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [17:24] * Joins: trumpetmic (~trumpetmi@159.182.183.6)
# [17:25] * Joins: thcipriani (~tyler@173-14-24-158-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
# [17:26] * Quits: trumpetmic (~trumpetmi@159.182.183.6) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [17:26] * Quits: socialhapy (~socialhap@46-38-167-162.static.cloud-ips.co.uk) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [17:26] * Joins: socialhapy (~socialhap@46-38-167-162.static.cloud-ips.co.uk)
# [17:26] * Joins: trumpetmic (~trumpetmi@159.182.183.6)
# [17:27] <paul_irish> hi hi
# [17:27] <paul_irish> http://html5please.us/ launched
# [17:27] <andrewjbaker> LOL.
# [17:27] <paul_irish> Look up HTML5, CSS3, etc features, know if they are ready for use, and if so find out how you should use them – with polyfills, fallbacks or as they are.
# [17:27] <paul_irish> etc
# [17:27] <paul_irish> its cool
# [17:27] <andrewjbaker> I've just pasted that in #bbg, by some bizarre twist of fate.
# [17:27] <paul_irish> contributions welcome
# [17:27] * Joins: kas187_ (~kas187@exchange-02.abasoft.co.uk)
# [17:30] * Quits: kas187 (~kas187@exchange-02.abasoft.co.uk) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [17:30] * kas187_ is now known as kas187
# [17:31] * Quits: pokoli (~pokoli@45.Red-88-9-224.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [17:31] * Joins: pokoli (~pokoli@45.Red-88-9-224.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net)
# [17:33] * Joins: croby (~croby@c-24-22-130-41.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
# [17:33] * Quits: trumpetmic (~trumpetmi@159.182.183.6) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [17:40] * Quits: NimeshNeema (u2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rfngkqwwdsgyzava) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [17:40] * Quits: jeremyselier (u2513@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fwvmjwslliclqzjq) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [17:40] * Quits: pocopina (u5310@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xkpoftxpgiqekwhp) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [17:40] * Quits: matjas (u2247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wptkrmrkwqgktpgi) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [17:40] * Quits: ryanseddon (u1832@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ekihpdnwplqrsydw) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [17:40] * Quits: Raynos (u3611@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ekjxenecieddbfjn) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [17:40] * Quits: iaincarsberg (u1388@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bvjehrlhblzljntk) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [17:40] * Quits: Dr4g_ (u3226@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wlivukyvjacgnhtb) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [17:40] * Quits: niftylettuce (u2733@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gdxcelnetqcnunpo) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [17:40] * Quits: salazr_ (u2027@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sjjtfbxwkigluoqq) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [17:40] * Quits: actel (u48@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lqijfrxesqpkrnwn) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [17:40] * Quits: beowulf (u116@pdpc/supporter/professional/beowulf) (Write error: Broken pipe)
# [17:40] * Quits: daleharvey (u513@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-orehauxemftnlkof) (Write error: Broken pipe)
# [17:40] * Quits: tiglionabbit (u2654@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sujyqimtbgwrrtsu) (Write error: Broken pipe)
# [17:40] * Quits: rohitjha (u4980@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-deezmivquswsgxdu) (Write error: Broken pipe)
# [17:40] * Quits: remysharp (u4345@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tpwjehwhgfqgxzqv) (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
# [17:40] * Quits: tabrezpasha (u2705@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fwmzvqskyqwppxzt) (Write error: Broken pipe)
# [17:40] * Quits: DeLorean731 (~X@67.51.221.42) (Excess Flood)
# [17:40] * Quits: pamelafoxx (u3244@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ausgynunrlzixetn) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [17:40] * Quits: hughfdjackson (u5307@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bwlfpnpkirziaqdo) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [17:40] * Joins: DeLorean731 (~X@67.51.221.42)
# [17:40] * Quits: krijn (u2319@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cnmnydunmjmkwuif) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [17:40] * Quits: tomh (u501@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-erhnxbmyierxfgam) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [17:40] * Quits: IanWizard-Cloud (u1815@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kyvcqlvnzcsjbvxi) (Write error: Connection reset by peer)
# [17:40] * Quits: hdv (u2376@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bxoydjbqvqreitnc) (Write error: Broken pipe)
# [17:40] * Quits: Phae (u455@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wvusffnapumkjdgp) (Write error: Broken pipe)
# [17:41] * Quits: edwinjm (u2756@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nlydqxaqgyvopnyc) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [17:41] * Quits: benschwarz (u2121@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-autycjvzafqgvlxc) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [17:41] * Quits: cyberdees (u2574@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gogxofykapbszpwk) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [17:41] * Quits: matijsb (u2278@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nxkjdmwdrzczjbah) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [17:41] * Joins: actel (u48@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cpslzxkojvrkiihy)
# [17:41] * Quits: actel (u48@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cpslzxkojvrkiihy) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [17:41] * Joins: tabrezpasha (u2705@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-orvbjcbwxktfcrbd)
# [17:43] * Joins: krijn (u2319@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gdgsuhuftkcdnrxe)
# [17:44] * Quits: Lars_ (~larssmit@84.241.204.180) (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi)
# [17:44] * Joins: matijsb (u2278@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-phxrpokhpmifjczf)
# [17:46] * Joins: iaincarsberg (u1388@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rrtuvvsjkqqtiyhl)
# [17:46] * Quits: huskyr (~huskyr@ip169-070.vpro.nl) (Quit: huskyr)
# [17:47] * Joins: henrikkok (~henrikkok@3306ds3-amb.0.fullrate.dk)
# [17:48] * Parts: henrikkok (~henrikkok@3306ds3-amb.0.fullrate.dk)
# [17:49] * Po{teaLOL is now known as Pomax
# [17:51] * Joins: strevat_ (~strevat@c-24-218-144-181.hsd1.vt.comcast.net)
# [17:52] * Joins: pamelafoxx (u3244@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jcriitjyvtnanwur)
# [17:52] * Joins: ryanseddon (u1832@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qejwbjjagndrdofe)
# [17:52] * Joins: hdv (u2376@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-thxkljfaadiaquui)
# [17:53] * Joins: trumpetmic (~trumpetmi@159.182.183.6)
# [17:53] * Joins: beowulf (u116@pdpc/supporter/professional/beowulf)
# [17:54] * Joins: jeremyselier (u2513@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-crhsbdcrrekjhdpu)
# [17:54] * Joins: rohitjha (u4980@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ldzxcbtkjyekltxl)
# [17:56] * Joins: johnkpaul (~johnkpaul@216.127.124.253)
# [17:56] * Quits: strevat_ (~strevat@c-24-218-144-181.hsd1.vt.comcast.net) (Quit: strevat_)
# [17:57] * Quits: NickC_dev (~burt@cpe-70-113-87-207.austin.res.rr.com) (Quit: NickC_dev)
# [17:58] * Joins: daleharvey (u513@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jfvxrowecpqennnx)
# [17:59] * Joins: PalleZingmark (~Adium@217.13.228.226)
# [18:00] * Joins: yogig (~yogig@67-131-94-2.dia.static.qwest.net)
# [18:01] * Quits: tobyx (~tobyx@fsf/member/tobyx) (Quit: Leaving...)
# [18:01] * Joins: cyberdees (u2574@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gklsdsphcfkglkvu)
# [18:01] * Joins: Raynos (u3611@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tsnimrhuekqbbeap)
# [18:02] * Joins: actel (u48@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sfcdtgsrgzjeolaa)
# [18:02] * Quits: dephex (~dddd@65.31.112.81) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
# [18:02] * Joins: Phae (u455@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ktmvbvztsdgwxeyd)
# [18:03] * Joins: edwinjm (u2756@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-etfeesbyfffrgqlq)
# [18:03] * Joins: JonathanNeal (~Jonathan@71.21.25.227)
# [18:03] * Joins: niftylettuce (u2733@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xvdsqdvcxuzefysd)
# [18:03] * Quits: johnkpaul (~johnkpaul@216.127.124.253) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [18:03] * Quits: hemm (~hemm@dhcp-ce112133.wt.uni-duisburg-essen.de) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [18:03] * Joins: hemm (~hemm@dhcp-ce112133.wt.uni-duisburg-essen.de)
# [18:03] * Joins: tomh (u501@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nhdfewfxouohgbmc)
# [18:04] * Joins: teleject (~christoph@cpe-70-112-210-24.austin.res.rr.com)
# [18:04] * Joins: NimeshNeema (u2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xumiwjcdrhsqohsk)
# [18:09] * Quits: xec (~xec@188.95.241.142) (Quit: so long)
# [18:09] * Quits: whitman (whitman@itsad-034.its.dur.ac.uk)
# [18:10] * Quits: johnoxton (~johnoxton@nat/canonical/x-czvrboafdlqogkxo) (Quit: johnoxton)
# [18:11] * Quits: trumpetmic (~trumpetmi@159.182.183.6) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [18:12] * Joins: johnoxton (~johnoxton@nat/canonical/x-givtvjxlkipshkqb)
# [18:12] * Joins: Jon47 (~Adium@199.101.130.50)
# [18:12] * Joins: venom00ut (~venom00@unaffiliated/venom00)
# [18:12] * Quits: doritoDan (~doritoDan@unaffiliated/doritodan) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [18:13] <venom00ut> hello, how will we distinguish html5 from html6 if there's no DTD reference in the DOCTYPE?
# [18:13] * Joins: dgathright (~dgathrigh@107.43.242.184)
# [18:13] <JakeA> html is moving from a versioned model to a continuously developing model
# [18:14] <JakeA> so, there'll be no html6
# [18:14] <JakeA> Stuff will be added to html5
# [18:15] <andrewjbaker> venom00ut, http://www.w3.org/wiki/HTML/next
# [18:15] <venom00ut> so no DTD will ever exist for HTML5?
# [18:15] <venom00ut> the whole validity thing gets lost this way
# [18:15] <Pomax> it's not XML.
# [18:15] <Pomax> so validaty based on a DTD is strictly speaking lost anyway
# [18:16] <JakeA> The only reason we have a doctype at all is because it triggers 'standards mode' in browsers
# [18:16] <jetienne> im happier to drop xml than to drop flash :)
# [18:16] * jetienne suffered a lot due to xml...
# [18:16] <venom00ut> what about xhtml5 then?
# [18:16] <JakeA> You'll still be able to validate your pages, but validation is just a guide
# [18:16] <Pomax> there was a long period where xml was considered the best thing ever. that period scarred a lot of people >_>
# [18:16] <venom00ut> guys the validity thing was very good for non-4-bilion-loc parsers
# [18:17] <Pomax> yes it was, and the spec still lets you write validators.
# [18:17] <Pomax> you just have to make sure your validator stays in tune with the spec.
# [18:17] <venom00ut> sounds very bad
# [18:17] <JakeA> That's how the validators work now
# [18:17] <Pomax> depends on what your target is.
# [18:17] <JakeA> A tick from a validator doesn't mean it'll work in a browser
# [18:18] <JakeA> A fail in a validator doesn't mean it'll fail in a browser
# [18:18] <Pomax> if your target is to keep everyone's content always validated, rather than versioned and thus potentially broken under "current" interpetation, rolling spec and validation is good.
# [18:18] <Pomax> although more work for the people who write validators.
# [18:18] * Joins: dkast (~DustanKas@rrcs-70-61-101-162.midsouth.biz.rr.com)
# [18:18] <JakeA> Basically, treat your validator as a linter
# [18:18] <Pomax> it's not like there's no spec at all to write a validator on, and the spec is not intented to change on the fundamental level of tag grammar.
# [18:19] <Pomax> there's clear lists of which elements do and do not allow which tag grammar.
# [18:19] <Pomax> it's just not "the same XML rule for every tag, irrespective of what that tag is" anymore.
# [18:20] <venom00ut> Pomax, what do you mean? :P you have specific rules for specific elements in xml
# [18:21] * Joins: tiglionabbit (u2654@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-geieqyzcynvhrzqw)
# [18:21] * Joins: strevat_ (~strevat@c-24-218-144-181.hsd1.vt.comcast.net)
# [18:21] * Joins: salazr_ (u2027@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bblycxajkkqkmsae)
# [18:21] <Pomax> yes, but in html5, some elements don't follow the XML "you need a closing tag" rule
# [18:22] <venom00ut> Pomax, that's another story :P
# [18:22] * Joins: IanWizard-Cloud (u1815@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-duxazdevsneocvmp)
# [18:22] * Quits: IanWizard-Cloud (u1815@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-duxazdevsneocvmp) (Changing host)
# [18:22] * Joins: IanWizard-Cloud (u1815@unaffiliated/ianwizard)
# [18:22] * Quits: IanWizard-Cloud (u1815@unaffiliated/ianwizard) (Changing host)
# [18:22] * Joins: IanWizard-Cloud (u1815@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-duxazdevsneocvmp)
# [18:22] <Pomax> the spec's just different from XML. You can write a validator that's future proof just fine, you just need to make sure that when HTML gets a new element, or attributes change, to add that to your validator as knowledge.
# [18:22] <venom00ut> restricting inputs is good for security purposes for instance
# [18:23] <Pomax> if there is HTML code that poses a security risk for the purpose of validator, something went very, very wrong.
# [18:23] <Pomax> *a validator
# [18:24] * theresa_away is now known as theresaanna
# [18:25] * Joins: _dc (~dc@c-24-20-239-11.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
# [18:26] * Joins: NickC_dev (~burt@cpe-70-113-87-207.austin.res.rr.com)
# [18:26] * Quits: manuchill (~mstalfoor@83.232.96.217) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
# [18:29] * Joins: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86)
# [18:29] <philihp> Pomax, i still write my HTML5 with a lot of XHTML habits
# [18:29] <venom00ut> behind parsers there are applications usually
# [18:29] * Quits: deasy (~deasy@85.201.207.128) (Quit: Nom d'un quark, c'est Edmonton!)
# [18:29] <Pomax> as do I. I don't like unquoted attributes and unmatched <p> tags =)
# [18:29] <venom00ut> philihp, including CDATA sections?
# [18:29] <philihp> oh no, F that
# [18:29] <Pomax> CDATA sections would just be wrong now.
# [18:29] * Quits: Jonadabe (~Jonadabe@bl8-127-141.dsl.telepac.pt) (Quit: http://www.visitportugal.com | http://www.youtube.com/visitportugal)
# [18:29] <philihp> but things like <br />
# [18:30] <philihp> <input ... selected="selected" />
# [18:30] <Pomax> just be aware that for some, that's now illegal =)
# [18:30] <Pomax> (although no sane browser's going to punish you for it
# [18:30] <Pomax> )
# [18:30] <Ms2ger> Pomax, what's illegal?
# [18:31] <Pomax> selfclosing empty elements
# [18:31] <JakeA> <script src="…" />
# [18:32] <JakeA> Some browsers will punish you for that
# [18:32] * Joins: deasy (~deasy@85.201.207.128)
# [18:32] * Joins: Dr4g_ (u3226@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fbymiupkhesfuslt)
# [18:32] <philihp> <script src="..." /> never worked for me, i have always done <script src="..."></script>
# [18:32] <Pomax> I think we all know which one.
# [18:32] <Pomax> IE positively HATES <script ..... />
# [18:32] * Joins: hughfdjackson_ (u5307@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vmyvesndiikdxipl)
# [18:32] <Ms2ger> <input /> is allowed
# [18:32] <Ms2ger> <script /> just doesn't work
# [18:32] <Pomax> sorry, void element, not "happens to be empty right now'
# [18:33] <Ms2ger> Yeah
# [18:33] * Joins: remysharp (u4345@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ualxiwosyyfmxbrl)
# [18:33] <philihp> annoying thing was when code beautifiers would turn <script></script> into <scrpt /> for me to "help" me out.
# [18:33] <venom00ut> <Pomax> (although no sane browser's going to punish you for it <-- this is the reason for which standards exists
# [18:34] <Pomax> this is also why standards don't always follow the spec
# [18:34] <venom00ut> you don't have to rely on such a thing, if you write an application who needs to parse html you don't have to make such assumptions
# [18:34] <JakeA> venom00ut: HTML is moving to a parsing model more like CSS
# [18:34] <Pomax> if you write an application that parses anything, you need to know what you're doing.
# [18:34] <philihp> how ethical would it be to exploit an IE vulnerability to install chrome frame?
# [18:35] <JakeA> It defines what to do if it see something it doesn't understand
# [18:35] <Pomax> depends on which IE.
# [18:35] <philihp> all the IEs.
# [18:35] <Pomax> that'd be stupid, IE9 is already virtually html5 compliant
# [18:35] * Joins: blackjid1 (~jidonoso@pc-120-163-47-190.cm.vtr.net)
# [18:35] <Ms2ger> Not ethical
# [18:35] * Quits: howlymowly (~quassel@tubsat.fb12.tu-berlin.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [18:35] <venom00ut> xhtml was very good for parsing, now instead you need a very sophisticated parser
# [18:35] <Pomax> but IE6... I'd say ethical. IE7 and 8, depends on where they're running
# [18:35] <Pomax> yes, and XHTML was XML.
# [18:35] <JakeA> With CSS, you can safely add blah-blah-blah: blah; without breaking browsers, even though that property isn't part of a spec
# [18:36] <Pomax> HTML was more like SGML, and HTML5 is still a bit like that, with leniency rules for people who got XML-ed =)
# [18:36] <Pomax> you can still parse it perfecly fine. Just not when you demand it should be parsable in the same way you parse XML.
# [18:36] * Quits: squeakytoy (hidden-use@ns.netset.se) (Quit: Leaving)
# [18:36] <venom00ut> html5 is a sort of "ok, give up, people don't want to make things in a sane way (with xhml)"
# [18:37] <Pomax> it's more free text than XML, write your tokeniser and DFA accordingly
# [18:37] <Pomax> exactly. it's a "you're right, we were wrong. forcing you to use XML formatting was not a good idea. Plus, everyone's on this "Jason" band wagon these days"
# [18:37] <Pomax> XML is great. just not for real humans.
# [18:37] * Joins: N0va` (~ricki@84.19.108.75)
# [18:38] <Pomax> now that the shine's worn off, XML can be used for what it's good at, and it's not webpage markup.
# [18:38] <philihp> yep! config files!
# [18:38] * Quits: blackjid (~jidonoso@pc-120-163-47-190.cm.vtr.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
# [18:39] * joepie92 is now known as joepie91
# [18:43] * Quits: MisterSpeaker (~MisterSpe@zenexity.pck.nerim.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [18:43] * Joins: NetRoY (~NetRoY@122.167.209.58)
# [18:44] * Quits: dgathright (~dgathrigh@107.43.242.184) (Quit: dgathright)
# [18:45] * Joins: msponge (~msponge@30-7-244.wireless.csail.mit.edu)
# [18:45] * Quits: jeremyselier (u2513@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-crhsbdcrrekjhdpu) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
# [18:46] * Joins: necolas (~necolas@host-92-12-148-102.as43234.net)
# [18:46] * Quits: tiglionabbit (u2654@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-geieqyzcynvhrzqw) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
# [18:46] * Joins: debsan (~debsan@190.245.74.16)
# [18:46] * Quits: msponge (~msponge@30-7-244.wireless.csail.mit.edu) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [18:46] * Quits: tabrezpasha (u2705@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-orvbjcbwxktfcrbd) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
# [18:48] * Joins: trumpetmic (~trumpetmi@159.182.183.6)
# [18:48] * Quits: Dr4g_ (u3226@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fbymiupkhesfuslt) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
# [18:48] * Quits: deasy (~deasy@85.201.207.128) (Quit: Nom d'un quark, c'est Edmonton!)
# [18:50] * Joins: devongovett (~devongove@pcp038545pcs.morro.reshall.calpoly.edu)
# [18:51] * Quits: teleject (~christoph@cpe-70-112-210-24.austin.res.rr.com) (Quit: teleject)
# [18:52] * Quits: NetRoY (~NetRoY@122.167.209.58) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
# [18:52] * Joins: MisterSpeaker (~MisterSpe@zenexity.pck.nerim.net)
# [18:52] * Quits: PalleZingmark (~Adium@217.13.228.226) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [18:53] * Joins: NetRoY (~NetRoY@122.167.209.58)
# [18:54] * Joins: JoshuaJones (~JoshuaJon@67.198.198.66)
# [18:55] * Quits: dkast (~DustanKas@rrcs-70-61-101-162.midsouth.biz.rr.com) (Quit: Lost terminal)
# [18:55] * Quits: trumpetmic (~trumpetmi@159.182.183.6) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [18:57] * Quits: rohitjha (u4980@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ldzxcbtkjyekltxl) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
# [18:58] * Joins: trumpetmic (~trumpetmi@159.182.183.6)
# [18:59] * Quits: andrewjbaker (~ajb@ip-81-23-63-2.ask4internet.com) (Quit: Leaving)
# [19:00] * Quits: T-Baggin (~benv@99-7-171-41.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) (Quit: Leaving...)
# [19:01] * Joins: Taftse (~Taftse@unaffiliated/taftse)
# [19:02] * Quits: MisterSpeaker (~MisterSpe@zenexity.pck.nerim.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [19:03] * Joins: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113)
# [19:05] * Quits: yogig (~yogig@67-131-94-2.dia.static.qwest.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
# [19:05] * Joins: pinage404 (~pinage404@APuteaux-651-1-108-91.w82-124.abo.wanadoo.fr)
# [19:06] <mantas322> I want the capability to append to cache
# [19:06] * Joins: jamund (~jamund@50-73-38-137-utah.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
# [19:06] <JakeA> Which cache?
# [19:06] <mantas322> cache manifest
# [19:07] <JakeA> What kind of thing are you wanting to append?
# [19:07] * Joins: dilvie (~chatzilla@50-0-92-40.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
# [19:07] <mantas322> I want to append extra files to the cache manifest
# [19:07] <mantas322> and then have a way for the browser not to have to RECACHE everything
# [19:07] <mantas322> I know this isnt possible but I just thought i'd mention it
# [19:08] * Quits: RobLoach (~RobLoach@drupal.org/user/61114/view) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [19:08] <mantas322> maybe theres some dev in here who make html5 happen
# [19:08] <mantas322> or perhaps its not an html5 thing but a browser thing
# [19:08] <JakeA> you can do it with html files, add an iframe pointing at an html files that links to the manifest
# [19:08] <mantas322> thats not what im saying
# [19:08] * Quits: NickC_dev (~burt@cpe-70-113-87-207.austin.res.rr.com) (Quit: NickC_dev)
# [19:08] <mantas322> when the cache manifest changes the entire thing gets recached
# [19:09] <JakeA> oh I see
# [19:09] <JakeA> Are most of the files in your appcache css/js/images?
# [19:09] <mantas322> they are simple pages and images
# [19:09] * Joins: dgathright (~dgathrigh@nat/yahoo/x-jgarqpsxxvoozyfq)
# [19:10] <mantas322> howveer I allow the user to make his own manifest via "Save for offline" buttons through out my page
# [19:10] <mantas322> when one gets clicked a custom BROSWER unique cache manifest is created with a specific part of the site
# [19:10] * Joins: fearlesstost (fearlessto@gateway/facebook.com/session)
# [19:10] <mantas322> so each cache manifest is dynamic to the user
# [19:10] <JakeA> Oh I see, I gave up using appcache for that kind of thing
# [19:10] <JakeA> I store optionally cached content in localStorage
# [19:10] <mantas322> I do that too
# [19:11] <mantas322> howvere I need images
# [19:11] <mantas322> however*
# [19:11] <JakeA> Images can be far-future cached
# [19:11] * Joins: yogig (~yogig@67.131.94.2)
# [19:11] <mantas322> and i dont want to have to convert them into somesort of local storage applicable bit code and then have to reconvert it
# [19:11] <JakeA> even if you change the manifest, the browser won't re-request them
# [19:11] <paul_irish> Pomax: http://badassjs.com/post/16355968400/font-js-a-powerful-font-toolkit-for-javascript
# [19:11] <mantas322> "far-future" ?
# [19:11] <mantas322> is that right
# [19:11] <mantas322> im going to have to read into this later, thanks JakeA
# [19:12] * Quits: kas187 (~kas187@exchange-02.abasoft.co.uk) (Quit: kas187)
# [19:12] * Quits: _dc (~dc@c-24-20-239-11.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
# [19:12] * Quits: shwetank (~shwetank@122.173.38.107) (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
# [19:12] <JakeA> mantas322: http://developer.yahoo.com/performance/rules.html#expires
# [19:15] <mantas322> thanks Jake
# [19:16] <mantas322> but I always figured if the cache was modified even by one character, the entire thing would get recached
# [19:16] <JakeA> Yeah, but the appcache is an additional cache, rather than an alternative one
# [19:17] <JakeA> if the appcache is invalidated (because of a change in chars) it'll update all the files according to their cache headers
# [19:17] * Joins: johnkpaul (~johnkpaul@216.127.124.253)
# [19:17] <JakeA> if those cache headers say a file doesn't expire until 2015, it won't make a request for it
# [19:21] * Joins: RobLoach (~RobLoach@drupal.org/user/61114/view)
# [19:22] <N0va`> is <div id="clear" /> valid? just seen it being used for the first time :/
# [19:23] * Joins: _dc (~dc@c-24-20-239-11.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
# [19:23] <mantas322> I didnt know that Jake, thanks for the information
# [19:24] <mantas322> I will attempt to do as you suggested on wednesday
# [19:24] * Joins: wdpro_kevin (~Adium@bur-inet-cp-0.disney.com)
# [19:24] <mantas322> and let u know how it goes..
# [19:24] <JakeA> N0va`: It's valid XHTML (if served with an XML doctype) but invalid HTML
# [19:25] * Joins: koggdal (~koggdal@c83-251-117-159.bredband.comhem.se)
# [19:25] <N0va`> right, thanks, figured that, just fired it in a HTML5 validator
# [19:26] * Quits: Stava (~Stava@ip232-rld-sdt.tyfon.se) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [19:27] * Joins: msponge (~msponge@30-7-244.wireless.csail.mit.edu)
# [19:27] * Joins: iNerd (~GIR@78-105-0-114.zone3.bethere.co.uk)
# [19:27] * Joins: NickC_dev (~burt@wireless-206-76-80-80.public.utexas.edu)
# [19:28] <iNerd> Ahoy. I have a question about html5 boilerplate but it suggests one come here. Am I in the right place?
# [19:28] <JonathanNeal> This is a great place.
# [19:29] <iNerd> I'm sure it is.
# [19:30] * Quits: NickC_dev (~burt@wireless-206-76-80-80.public.utexas.edu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [19:30] * Joins: NickC_dev (~burt@wireless-206-76-80-80.public.utexas.edu)
# [19:30] <iNerd> I'm having trouble with how to add javascripts into html5boilerplate, i don't really get how they want one to integrate them
# [19:30] * Joins: clarke2 (~clarke4@109.78.110.173)
# [19:30] * Quits: NickC_dev (~burt@wireless-206-76-80-80.public.utexas.edu) (Client Quit)
# [19:30] * Quits: JakeA (~Adium@93-97-17-15.zone5.bethere.co.uk) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
# [19:31] * Joins: benv (~benv@50-0-80-160.dsl.static.sonic.net)
# [19:33] * Quits: clarke2 (~clarke4@109.78.110.173) (Client Quit)
# [19:35] * Quits: _dc (~dc@c-24-20-239-11.hsd1.or.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [19:37] * Joins: Jayflux (~jay_knows@cpc1-dudl6-0-0-cust1981.wolv.cable.virginmedia.com)
# [19:37] * Joins: NickC_dev (~burt@wireless-206-76-80-80.public.utexas.edu)
# [19:43] * ericduran is now known as ericduran|food
# [19:47] * Joins: deasy (~deasy@85.201.207.128)
# [19:50] * Quits: gavinsmith (~gavinsmit@CPEe05fb90cc8fb-CM00222ddfdbcd.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
# [19:50] * Joins: _dc (~dc@c-24-20-239-11.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
# [19:52] * Joins: enthdegree (600ae0c3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.10.224.195)
# [19:52] <enthdegree> no op party wooo
# [19:53] <enthdegree> byob
# [19:53] * Parts: galfert (~galfert@i59F7B502.versanet.de)
# [19:55] * Joins: LarsSmit (~Lars_Smit@a80-101-110-66.adsl.xs4all.nl)
# [19:57] * Quits: iNerd (~GIR@78-105-0-114.zone3.bethere.co.uk) (Quit: iNerd)
# [19:59] * Joins: dephex (~dddd@CPE-65-31-112-81.wi.res.rr.com)
# [20:01] * Quits: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [20:02] * pinage404 is now known as pinage_faim
# [20:03] * Quits: enthdegree (600ae0c3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.10.224.195) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
# [20:03] * Quits: hemm (~hemm@dhcp-ce112133.wt.uni-duisburg-essen.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [20:05] * Joins: RobLoach1 (~RobLoach@24-246-81-58.cable.teksavvy.com)
# [20:05] * Quits: strevat_ (~strevat@c-24-218-144-181.hsd1.vt.comcast.net) (Quit: strevat_)
# [20:05] * Quits: RobLoach (~RobLoach@drupal.org/user/61114/view) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
# [20:06] * Joins: strevat_ (~strevat@c-24-218-144-181.hsd1.vt.comcast.net)
# [20:06] * Joins: simenbrekken (~simenbrek@c85-196-101-98.static.sdsl.no)
# [20:06] * Joins: Trisox (~Trisox@31-151-138-69.dynamic.upc.nl)
# [20:09] * Quits: doug- (~bassplaye@97-85-153-116.static.stls.mo.charter.com) (Quit: Leaving...)
# [20:12] * Joins: barbagallo (~johnbarba@199.20.44.50)
# [20:13] * Joins: buribu (~buribu@177.99.100.58)
# [20:13] * Quits: buribu (~buribu@177.99.100.58) (Changing host)
# [20:13] * Joins: buribu (~buribu@unaffiliated/buribu)
# [20:14] * Joins: wdpro_kevin1 (~Adium@68.71.215.4)
# [20:15] * Joins: patcito (~123@190.43.238.215)
# [20:16] * Quits: wdpro_kevin (~Adium@bur-inet-cp-0.disney.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
# [20:22] * Joins: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com)
# [20:22] * Quits: deasy (~deasy@85.201.207.128) (Quit: Nom d'un quark, c'est Edmonton!)
# [20:23] * Joins: rhelic (~tate@unaffiliated/rhelic)
# [20:23] <rhelic> there are no ops here?
# [20:23] <rhelic> fuck yea
# [20:23] <rhelic> SPAM ALL THE USERS
# [20:24] * Joins: matjas (u2247@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vlkyihjlumfqhbxu)
# [20:24] <jetienne> pool: suppose you are rewriting jQuery, will you put the $ or not ?
# [20:24] <Pomax> of course, there's still ircops who will kline you if you flood or spam a channel, or multiple users ;)
# [20:25] * Joins: iris777 (d16350f4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.99.80.244)
# [20:25] <rhelic> Pomax: that's why I will slowly and secretly msg or notice each user, with something totally different
# [20:25] <rhelic> if I only spam 1 user per hour, it'll go unnoticed
# [20:25] <Pomax> I'm not pool, but I'd do the same as now. Use jQuery, and alias $ if it's not already aliassed to something else
# [20:25] <rhelic> spam winning!
# [20:26] <Pomax> will it be completely pointless spam, too? Like those emails without any links and just some trigram generated english phrases?
# [20:26] <jetienne> Pomax: ok
# [20:27] * Joins: Jonadabe (~Jonadabe@bl11-3-246.dsl.telepac.pt)
# [20:27] * Quits: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) (Quit: Reading http://davidwalsh.name)
# [20:27] <iris777> anybody try using initializr and jquery mobile?
# [20:28] <Pomax> love it, rhelic
# [20:30] <rhelic> Pomax: and if you claim your prize in the next 15 mins, you'll get free vigeragra, just pay additional shipping
# [20:32] <Pomax> oh em gee, this deal is getting bettor and bettor
# [20:32] * Parts: pinage_faim (~pinage404@APuteaux-651-1-108-91.w82-124.abo.wanadoo.fr) ("Quitte")
# [20:32] <rhelic> spelling well is important for the offer to look legitmate
# [20:33] <rhelic> ironically that really was a typo
# [20:35] * Joins: sedovsek (~robert.se@93-103-104-107.dynamic.t-2.net)
# [20:35] * Quits: sedovsek` (robert.sed@93-103-104-107.dynamic.t-2.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [20:38] * Quits: devongovett (~devongove@pcp038545pcs.morro.reshall.calpoly.edu) (Quit: devongovett)
# [20:38] * Quits: joepie91 (~joepie91@s514735fe.adsl.wanadoo.nl) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
# [20:39] * Joins: whitman (~whitman@87-194-159-116.bethere.co.uk)
# [20:40] * Joins: insin (~insin@host109-153-223-163.range109-153.btcentralplus.com)
# [20:41] * Joins: teleject (~christoph@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net)
# [20:45] * Joins: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113)
# [20:47] * Quits: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [20:47] * Joins: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86)
# [20:47] * Joins: tobyx (~tobyx@fsf/member/tobyx)
# [20:50] * Parts: IanWizard-Cloud (u1815@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-duxazdevsneocvmp)
# [20:54] * Quits: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [20:54] * Joins: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86)
# [20:55] * Joins: kadiks (~kadiks@APuteaux-652-1-255-141.w82-124.abo.wanadoo.fr)
# [20:57] * Joins: squeakytoy (~squeakyto@107-232-96-87.cust.blixtvik.se)
# [20:59] * Quits: necolas (~necolas@host-92-12-148-102.as43234.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [20:59] * Joins: doritoDan (~doritoDan@unaffiliated/doritodan)
# [21:02] * Quits: kadiks (~kadiks@APuteaux-652-1-255-141.w82-124.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Leaving)
# [21:02] * Quits: jetienne (~jerome@ivr94-6-82-230-255-246.fbx.proxad.net) (Quit: jetienne)
# [21:03] * Quits: philihp (~philihp@sas15254.nat.sas.com) (Quit: you are not a jedi, yet.)
# [21:04] * Quits: squinteye (~troy@static-72-64-184-30.tampfl.fios.verizon.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [21:05] * Quits: iamdustan (~DustanKas@rrcs-70-61-101-162.midsouth.biz.rr.com) (Quit: Lost terminal)
# [21:06] * Joins: teslan (~teslan@d24-36-97-244.home1.cgocable.net)
# [21:07] * Quits: trumpetmic (~trumpetmi@159.182.183.6) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [21:07] * Joins: N0va (~ricki@84.19.108.75)
# [21:09] * RobLoach1 is now known as RobLoach
# [21:09] * Quits: RobLoach (~RobLoach@24-246-81-58.cable.teksavvy.com) (Changing host)
# [21:09] * Joins: RobLoach (~RobLoach@drupal.org/user/61114/view)
# [21:09] * ericduran|food is now known as ericduran
# [21:11] * Quits: N0va` (~ricki@84.19.108.75) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [21:11] * Quits: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [21:13] * Quits: gyzmodo (x@89.146.108.109) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
# [21:14] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@91.181.127.125) (Quit: nn)
# [21:14] * Joins: sephr (~Eli@c-98-235-63-240.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
# [21:16] * Joins: iamdustan (~DustanKas@rrcs-70-61-101-162.midsouth.biz.rr.com)
# [21:16] * Joins: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86)
# [21:18] <teslan> hey guys, i know enough html and javascript and css to follow and even do decent single pages ... do you know of a higher level tutorial that deals with packaging it all together?
# [21:19] <moo^_^> teslan: like merging and compressing Javascript and CSS
# [21:19] <moo^_^> teslan: for javascript "modules" use this tool http://requirejs.org/
# [21:20] <moo^_^> for CSS compressing this works also http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/compressor/css.html
# [21:21] <teslan> moo^_^: no, more like if i have 3 standalone pages for login, video, form with js on each, how should they be put into a site ... all js into 1 module ... 3 html pages become 3 divs, etc?
# [21:21] * Quits: NickC_dev (~burt@wireless-206-76-80-80.public.utexas.edu) (Quit: NickC_dev)
# [21:21] <moo^_^> teslan: all JS in one file
# [21:22] <moo^_^> if your web server is properly configured it will fetch the file only once
# [21:22] <moo^_^> and the page 2 and page 3 get the code for free
# [21:22] <moo^_^> also whether you want to use real URLs or hashbang navigation
# [21:22] <moo^_^> it depends on the use case
# [21:23] * Quits: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [21:23] <moo^_^> I'd say use separate pages unless you know why you would use single html
# [21:24] * Joins: dnjaramba_ (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86)
# [21:25] <teslan> so the noobster question is whether the 3 html pages are just links to eah other and if so does each have header, body, script ... or how to do that ... that is what i need a tutorial on ... in my selflearning by doing, all i did so far is single html pages with header, body, script.
# [21:25] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@66-87-2-94.pools.spcsdns.net)
# [21:25] <moo^_^> teslan: you usually use templates
# [21:26] * Joins: Lars_ (~larssmit@a80-101-110-66.adsl.xs4all.nl)
# [21:26] <moo^_^> the the server processes the final HTML
# [21:26] * Quits: Lars_ (~larssmit@a80-101-110-66.adsl.xs4all.nl) (Client Quit)
# [21:26] <moo^_^> you write one master template and then each individual page extends this template
# [21:26] <moo^_^> available template languages depends on your web server
# [21:26] <teslan> templates in web dev seem to be largish bloated beasts and i was hoping to at least first see how it should be structured by hand - just to understand it , before getting lost in templates
# [21:27] <moo^_^> I'd like to see that too
# [21:27] * Joins: tantek-ipod (~tantek@66-87-0-185.pools.spcsdns.net)
# [21:27] <moo^_^> but there isn't yet native HTML way to include bits and pieces from other files
# [21:27] <moo^_^> you can have jQuery Template and such javascript libraries
# [21:27] <moo^_^> but they are not suitable for your use case
# [21:29] * Quits: dnjaramba_ (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [21:29] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@66-87-2-94.pools.spcsdns.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
# [21:29] * Joins: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86)
# [21:29] * tantek-ipod is now known as tantek
# [21:29] * Joins: ajf (~ajf@ajf.me)
# [21:29] <ajf> oh wow
# [21:30] <ajf> JS is pretty much a first-class language in Windows 8
# [21:30] <teslan> my use case is actually very much data driven with very few ui widgets (some but not overwhelming) .... complex youtube player on one and it uses jquery.couch to get its data from couchdb ... average input form for inputting some additional info that is not on youtube .... a login page and that's it ... i could leave it as three unrelated html pages but then i have lots of same java used by all three
# [21:31] <rhelic> ajf: well IE is the new UI
# [21:31] <ajf> yup
# [21:31] <rhelic> although, Win98 and IE4 actually tried to do this once before
# [21:31] <ajf> and some core apps are now in HTML5
# [21:31] <ajf> rhelic: yes. hta
# [21:31] <ajf> er
# [21:31] <rhelic> it failed, but then everybody had 8-16MB of ram back then
# [21:31] <ajf> .HTA apps
# [21:31] <ajf> I made one
# [21:31] <ajf> in fact XP's user accounts management is done in HTML and JS or VBScript
# [21:31] <iamdustan> teslan: net.tutslus.com/sessions/web-design-from-scratch/
# [21:32] <ajf> it's just now web tech is more powerful
# [21:32] * Quits: strevat_ (~strevat@c-24-218-144-181.hsd1.vt.comcast.net) (Quit: strevat_)
# [21:32] * Joins: manuchill (~mstalfoor@81.69.16.186)
# [21:32] <rhelic> yea, plus it helps we have 4x 3ghz now, vs 300mhz
# [21:32] <ajf> yes
# [21:32] <rhelic> and 8GB of ram, instead of 8MB
# [21:32] <iamdustan> it’s going to have some things in there you seem to already be well beyond, but some standard things like how documents link together may be helpful
# [21:32] <ajf> and very good JS engines
# [21:33] <ajf> it's ridiculous how much JS performance has improved
# [21:33] <rhelic> ajf: one guy benched it, from IE6 back when it was new, on that hardware, to today, it was 20,000X literally
# [21:33] <rhelic> mind you, he didn't equate in CPU comparison
# [21:33] <ajf> wow.
# [21:33] <rhelic> something that took him > 8hrs to compute in JS, took 60secs today on Chrome
# [21:34] <ajf> well THAT's progress :P
# [21:34] * Joins: joepie91 (~joepie91@ip5457f51b.direct-adsl.nl)
# [21:34] * Quits: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [21:34] <rhelic> yea but a lot of it was thanks to just CPU
# [21:35] * Joins: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86)
# [21:35] <ajf> true
# [21:36] <rhelic> I don't know about actual number, but my wild guess is that JS improvements only accounts for 10x speed ups
# [21:36] <rhelic> iow Chrome
# [21:36] <ajf> Hmm... Windows 8 is WebOS's successor
# [21:36] <ajf> HTML5 applications
# [21:36] <rhelic> oh god don't say that
# [21:36] <teslan> iamdustan: thanks a lot
# [21:36] <ajf> well it is in a sense, they did exactly what Palm did
# [21:36] <rhelic> yea
# [21:36] <rhelic> I'm just not sure if that's a compilment
# [21:37] <ajf> yes, WebOS failed :'(
# [21:39] * Joins: pascal (~Trisox@31-151-138-69.dynamic.upc.nl)
# [21:39] * Quits: Trisox (~Trisox@31-151-138-69.dynamic.upc.nl) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [21:39] * Quits: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [21:39] * Quits: Taftse (~Taftse@unaffiliated/taftse) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
# [21:39] <ajf> oh god, Microsoft even seem to understand asynchronous programming and friendly JS APIs
# [21:39] * Joins: necolas (~necolas@host-92-12-148-102.as43234.net)
# [21:39] <ajf> and even JS best practices!(!)
# [21:40] * Joins: jetienne (~jerome@82.230.255.246)
# [21:41] * Joins: Thasmo (~thasmo@d86-33-68-66.cust.tele2.at)
# [21:41] * Joins: jonah (~quassel@188-222-203-126.zone13.bethere.co.uk)
# [21:42] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@66-87-0-185.pools.spcsdns.net) (Quit: Colloquy for iPod touch - http://colloquy.mobi)
# [21:42] * Joins: Taftse (~Taftse@unaffiliated/taftse)
# [21:43] <jonah> hi i wondered if any web designer or hosts can please help me. my host have basically cut me off after 5 days of downtime. i'm on the verge of all my clients leaving me and all i need is a good value managed dedicated/cloud server that i can hopefully get set up tonight? can anyone please recommend a decent managed hosting solution that doesn't cost too much? please help, thanks.
# [21:43] * Joins: dnjaramba_ (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86)
# [21:43] <ajf> amazon?
# [21:44] * Quits: JonathanNeal (~Jonathan@71.21.25.227) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [21:44] * Quits: tobyx (~tobyx@fsf/member/tobyx) (Quit: Leaving...)
# [21:46] * Joins: squinteye (~troy@static-72-64-184-30.tampfl.fios.verizon.net)
# [21:49] * Joins: Ricki__ (~ricki@84.19.108.75)
# [21:49] * Quits: dnjaramba_ (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [21:49] * Joins: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86)
# [21:50] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@2620:101:8003:200:8c49:856f:11df:f815)
# [21:52] <pascal> does google chome have a offline mode? any one knows
# [21:52] * Quits: N0va (~ricki@84.19.108.75) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [21:52] * Quits: kennyluck (~kennyluck@114-43-116-53.dynamic.hinet.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [21:52] <pascal> cant find it google says i need to install gears
# [21:52] * Quits: NetRoY (~NetRoY@122.167.209.58) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [21:53] * pascal is now known as Trisox
# [21:55] <paul_irish> Trisox: "offline mode"
# [21:55] * Joins: strevat_ (~strevat@209-6-71-208.c3-0.abr-ubr1.sbo-abr.ma.cable.rcn.com)
# [21:55] <paul_irish> define that.
# [21:55] <paul_irish> offline is a frustrating area these days
# [21:55] <paul_irish> all browsers (minus ie9) have appcache
# [21:55] <paul_irish> which is essential to offlineyness.
# [21:56] <ajf> IE10 has it
# [21:56] <ajf> Offline mode is a stupid and irrelevant feature
# [21:57] * Joins: jetienne_ (~jerome@82.230.255.246)
# [21:57] <moo^_^> ajf: it is
# [21:57] * Quits: LarsSmit (~Lars_Smit@a80-101-110-66.adsl.xs4all.nl) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [21:57] <iamdustan> ajf: explain the irrelevancy of it.
# [21:57] <moo^_^> because its user experience is not that good
# [21:57] * Joins: kennyluck (~kennyluck@114-43-119-192.dynamic.hinet.net)
# [21:57] <moo^_^> it is mainly useful with web apps
# [21:57] <moo^_^> but there is no good "web app installation" experience
# [21:57] <Trisox> offline mode like in firefox
# [21:58] <moo^_^> and the users have no clue how it should behave
# [21:58] <ajf> iamdustan: it's irreleavant because it's no longer needed
# [21:58] <Trisox> like for testing offline apps with out realy disconecting form the inet
# [21:58] <ajf> these days we have more reliable and constant connections and when we don't we have appcache
# [21:58] <Trisox> testing appcache indeed
# [21:58] * Quits: BreadMaker (~BreadMake@pc-191-49-214-201.cm.vtr.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
# [21:59] <iamdustan> are you speaking of a browser offline mode feature or appcache specifically?
# [21:59] * Quits: jonah (~quassel@188-222-203-126.zone13.bethere.co.uk) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [21:59] <ajf> browser offline mode
# [21:59] <iamdustan> ah. got it. I thought you were referring to appcache as being irrelevant
# [21:59] <Trisox> wel testing appcache in chrome i was wondering if it got a offline mode with out disconecting from wifi...
# [21:59] <Trisox> nope
# [21:59] * Joins: BreadMaker (~BreadMake@pc-191-49-214-201.cm.vtr.net)
# [21:59] <ajf> oh, that kind of offline mode?
# [22:00] <Trisox> got it working like i want it to in firefox now but i wannad to test chrome
# [22:00] <ajf> as in pretend it's offline]
# [22:00] <Trisox> yup
# [22:00] <Trisox> firefox got menu > file > work offline
# [22:00] <Trisox> something like that
# [22:00] * Quits: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [22:01] <ajf> yes, but that's a legacy work offline mode
# [22:01] <ajf> like IE's
# [22:01] * Joins: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86)
# [22:01] <Trisox> works for me ;)
# [22:01] <ajf> it relies on web pages being cached
# [22:01] <ajf> well, good :)
# [22:01] <Trisox> it triggers the appcache offline online mode...
# [22:01] <moo^_^> I think offline apps are more useful in mobile
# [22:01] <moo^_^> desktop is irrelevant
# [22:01] <Trisox> true
# [22:01] <ajf> yes
# [22:01] <Trisox> but contact url is handy offline
# [22:02] <Trisox> i use it more for caching ...
# [22:02] <Trisox> fun to play around with ...
# [22:04] <ajf> Is IE9 still fastest released browser for rendering?
# [22:05] <moo^_^> no
# [22:05] <moo^_^> it does not use webgl
# [22:05] <moo^_^> anything with webgl is
# [22:06] <ajf> it's still fastest for 2D though, isn't it?
# [22:06] * Quits: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [22:06] <ajf> it absolutely destroys Chrome, at least last time I tried it]
# [22:07] * Joins: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86)
# [22:07] <moo^_^> no
# [22:07] <moo^_^> if you use webgl for 2d
# [22:07] <ajf> I'm aware you can use WebGL for 2D
# [22:07] <ajf> but IE9 is still the fastest at 2D web page rendering and canvas
# [22:07] <ajf> as it hardward accelerates that
# [22:08] <moo^_^> we need to find some recent benchmarks :)
# [22:08] <Trisox> opera even slower?
# [22:08] <Trisox> i thought it was pretty fast 2
# [22:08] <ajf> moo^_^: using the versions I have
# [22:08] <moo^_^> gut feelingn doesn't help
# [22:08] <ajf> IE9 is fasterst
# [22:08] <ajf> 60FPS vs 7FPS for opera
# [22:08] <ajf> let's try chrome#
# [22:09] <ajf> around 7FPS for chrome too
# [22:09] <Trisox> canary
# [22:09] <Trisox> :D
# [22:09] <ajf> let's try FF
# [22:10] <Trisox> lets try netscape
# [22:10] <ajf> http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Performance/FlyingImages/
# [22:10] <ajf> Firefox: <1 FPS
# [22:10] <Trisox> what about Mosaic? webbrowser?
# [22:11] <ajf> not sure it would work ;)
# [22:11] <Trisox> i got 23/25 frames
# [22:11] <iamdustan> although impressive, I distrust when a vendor pushes out demos not so much to show it’s capabilities, but rather to show how it’s “better” than another browser
# [22:11] <ajf> Trisox: increase fully
# [22:11] <Trisox> on firefox ajf
# [22:11] <ajf> move own
# [22:11] <ajf> *move down
# [22:11] * Quits: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [22:11] <ajf> when it's at 256 images firefox ground to a halt for me
# [22:11] <moo^_^> ajf: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/firefox-7-web-browser,3037-7.html
# [22:11] <Trisox> 52 frames
# [22:12] <Trisox> 44
# [22:12] <ajf> Trisox: full number of images? did you move into the middle where it stresses it?
# [22:12] <moo^_^> varies depending on a benchmark
# [22:12] * Quits: necolas (~necolas@host-92-12-148-102.as43234.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [22:12] <moo^_^> I would say microsoft tests are rigged for IE naturally
# [22:12] <iamdustan> that said IE9 can own some 2d canvas rendering
# [22:12] <moo^_^> so trust only independend tests
# [22:12] <iamdustan> si
# [22:12] <ajf> not so much rigged
# [22:13] <ajf> but suited to it
# [22:13] <Trisox> still 17 grames
# [22:13] <Trisox> frames
# [22:13] <Trisox> depends on video card.. suport
# [22:13] <ajf> they use things that work well, for instance pasting ridiculously large numbers of images on acanvas
# [22:13] <ajf> http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Performance/LetItSnow/
# [22:13] <Trisox> <-- newest macbook pro...
# [22:13] * Joins: DreadKnight (~dread@unaffiliated/dreadknight)
# [22:13] <DreadKnight> hello, anybody decent with javascript interested in teaming up with a few artists for a "heroes of might and magic 3 clone"? we're aiming for kickstarter funding soon
# [22:13] <Trisox> i'm gona watch a movie
# [22:13] * Joins: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86)
# [22:14] <ajf> FF ~12FPS
# [22:14] <Trisox> nah
# [22:14] <iamdustan> I think that labs.skookum.com/demos/canvastest has an interesting way to play with canvas fps performance across browsers
# [22:14] <Trisox> i get more frames then that ajf
# [22:14] <ajf> Trisox: my CPU isn't exactly fantastic
# [22:14] <ajf> also
# [22:14] <ajf> I used 2000 flakes
# [22:15] <ajf> opera can't handle 250 D:
# [22:15] <iamdustan> it doesn’t do crazy complex things like MSIE’s demos push
# [22:15] <Trisox> oh k
# [22:15] <Trisox> gn8 all movie time
# [22:15] <ajf> this demo isn't crazy complex, but I like it
# [22:15] <Trisox> :D
# [22:15] <ajf> 3FPS for opera
# [22:16] <ajf> iamdustan: I'l try that
# [22:16] <Trisox> you do know thouse demo's are mircroknurft optimised
# [22:16] <Trisox> :P
# [22:16] <ajf> Well, they are designed to take advantage of IE features, yes
# [22:16] <Trisox> so not fair :)
# [22:17] <moo^_^> check tom's hardware link
# [22:17] <ajf> like hardware-accelerated 2d canvas... if it used WebGL for other browsers, it would have same or better performance
# [22:17] <moo^_^> some independend benchmarks
# [22:17] <moo^_^> like one from facebook
# [22:17] * Quits: erichynds (~ehynds@venkman.brightcove.com)
# [22:17] <Trisox> id rather have input surpot then canvas 3d webgl 3d delux :P
# [22:17] <Trisox> support
# [22:19] * Joins: devongovett (~devongove@pcp038545pcs.morro.reshall.calpoly.edu)
# [22:19] <Trisox> gn8 all movie time
# [22:19] * Quits: Trisox (~Trisox@31-151-138-69.dynamic.upc.nl) (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
# [22:19] * Quits: devongovett (~devongove@pcp038545pcs.morro.reshall.calpoly.edu) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [22:20] * Joins: devongovett (~devongove@pcp038545pcs.morro.reshall.calpoly.edu)
# [22:20] * Joins: MisterSpeaker (~MisterSpe@did75-9-82-230-54-70.fbx.proxad.net)
# [22:20] <ajf> shame MS don't support WebGL though
# [22:20] * Quits: mantra (~mantra@unaffiliated/mantra) (Quit: out.)
# [22:20] * Quits: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [22:21] * Joins: cyclops (~cyclops@c-24-20-222-42.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
# [22:21] * Joins: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86)
# [22:22] * Joins: eysman (~eysman@AAnnecy-157-1-62-62.w86-219.abo.wanadoo.fr)
# [22:22] * Quits: devmikey (~irc@unaffiliated/devmikey) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [22:24] * Quits: Taftse (~Taftse@unaffiliated/taftse) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
# [22:25] <ajf> dislaimer: I actually use IE9 as my default browser
# [22:26] * Quits: mantas322 (c0cb7a65@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.203.122.101) (Quit: Page closed)
# [22:27] * Joins: shaDykhan (~shaDykhan@c-67-184-85-179.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
# [22:28] <tw2113> eww
# [22:28] <ajf> it's not that bad
# [22:28] <tw2113> if you're going to use IE for anything, at least go with the bleeding edge :P
# [22:29] <ajf> will be soon, getting platform preview
# [22:29] * Joins: gniourf_gniourf (~Gniourf@2a01:e35:2433:3b90:222:41ff:fe23:8d8e)
# [22:29] <ajf> honestly though IE9 is fine. It doesn't have a bunch of HTML5 things I would like, but it is nice
# [22:29] <ajf> certainly a huge improvement over IE8
# [22:30] * Quits: koggdal (~koggdal@c83-251-117-159.bredband.comhem.se) (Quit: koggdal)
# [22:30] <ajf> and tabs run in seperate processes, like Chrome
# [22:30] * Quits: ColKurtz (~ColKurtz@pool-108-23-5-31.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [22:32] * Joins: tantek_ (~tantek@nat/mozilla/x-uxhtpbzhslsmpgyc)
# [22:33] <moo^_^> ajf: my only problem with IE9 is that the world is using IE6, IE7 and IE8
# [22:33] <moo^_^> :)
# [22:33] * Quits: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [22:33] <ajf> sadly
# [22:33] <ajf> although MS finally put it in Windows Update
# [22:33] <moo^_^> true
# [22:34] <ajf> moo^_^: it's mostly the fault of piracy and corporate networks though :)
# [22:34] <moo^_^> too little, too late though :)
# [22:34] <ajf> by piracy I mean "China"
# [22:34] <moo^_^> or it's fault of the fact that microsoft is passively pushing against web
# [22:34] <moo^_^> they could have deployed ie9 on all windowses by today if they had wished so
# [22:34] <moo^_^> many years ago
# [22:35] <moo^_^> so microsoft does not deserve any pity
# [22:35] * Quits: strevat_ (~strevat@209-6-71-208.c3-0.abr-ubr1.sbo-abr.ma.cable.rcn.com) (Quit: strevat_)
# [22:35] <ajf> not really
# [22:35] <ajf> they just only took standards compliance seriously recently
# [22:35] <moo^_^> wel yes
# [22:35] <moo^_^> they could have done it 7 years ago
# [22:35] <ajf> e.g. IE8, IE9
# [22:35] * Joins: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86)
# [22:35] <moo^_^> so no pity
# [22:36] <ajf> eh
# [22:36] <moo^_^> they don't deserve to be treated as 1st class web citizen
# [22:36] <ajf> they base their browsers on fuly standardized web standards
# [22:36] <ajf> most of the time
# [22:36] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@2620:101:8003:200:8c49:856f:11df:f815) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
# [22:36] * tantek_ is now known as tantek
# [22:36] <ajf> they don't like doing in-development stuff
# [22:37] <moo^_^> they have caused so much extra work hours for me during the last ten years that nothing is going to change anymore the fact that I only spit to the general direction of redmond
# [22:37] * Joins: NickC_dev (~burt@wireless-128-62-92-79.public.utexas.edu)
# [22:37] <ajf> moo^_^: They have done one great thing for the web though
# [22:37] <ajf> Windows 8's default browser has no plugins :D
# [22:37] <moo^_^> ajf: no
# [22:37] <moo^_^> tell me that when windows 8 has replaced windows xp installations
# [22:37] <moo^_^> they have done nothing yet
# [22:37] <ajf> Windows 7 is catching up on XP
# [22:38] <ajf> moo^_^: XP for home is dead
# [22:38] <moo^_^> ajf: you are only wasting your time to arguing with me
# [22:38] <ajf> it's corporates and third-world piracy keeping it afloat
# [22:38] <ajf> moan to them, MS is powerless over them
# [22:38] <moo^_^> as I said, I have suffered so much because of microsoft my mind doesn't want to hear your arguments
# [22:38] <ajf> hey, so have I. IE6 is retarded
# [22:39] <ajf> a bastard child that should be euthanised forever
# [22:39] <ajf> even MS hate it
# [22:39] <moo^_^> well too bad
# [22:39] <moo^_^> they could havefixed the situation many years ago
# [22:40] <ajf> they did, IE7 :P
# [22:40] <moo^_^> they did not
# [22:40] <moo^_^> how it has taken 10 years before they push update for the users?
# [22:40] <moo^_^> no excuses
# [22:40] <ajf> moo^_^: EU
# [22:40] <ajf> European Union
# [22:40] <ajf> it's their fault, actually
# [22:41] <ajf> the anti-trust suit stalled development
# [22:41] <moo^_^> yes
# [22:41] <moo^_^> that was good
# [22:41] <moo^_^> firefox gained traction
# [22:41] <ajf> true
# [22:41] <moo^_^> but nothing changes the fact that MS is shitty company managed by people who held back web development for many years
# [22:41] <ajf> (it's not like I like IE particularly, I just want to give IE9/10 a chance)
# [22:41] * Quits: msponge (~msponge@30-7-244.wireless.csail.mit.edu) (Quit: msponge)
# [22:41] <moo^_^> well I don't
# [22:41] <kurrent> html5please looks really good, best reference yet probably
# [22:41] <moo^_^> it doesn't deserve it
# [22:42] <ajf> hey, come on! They didn't! THey advanced web insecurity hugely
# [22:42] <ajf> through such great features as ActiveX
# [22:42] <ajf> and VBSCript
# [22:42] <ajf> and COM objects
# [22:42] <ajf> and buffer overflows!
# [22:42] * Quits: _inc (~inc@unaffiliated/-inc/x-0498339) (*.net *.split)
# [22:42] * Quits: timtux (~cocaine@46.102.244.60) (*.net *.split)
# [22:42] <ajf> and automatic software downloads!
# [22:42] * Quits: DeLorean731 (~X@67.51.221.42) (Excess Flood)
# [22:42] <kurrent> i die a little at the ubiquity of the the word "polyfill" on it
# [22:42] * Joins: DeLorean731 (~X@67.51.221.42)
# [22:43] <ajf> well, moo^_^
# [22:43] <ajf> Microsoft did give ONE good thing to the world
# [22:43] <ajf> ONE
# [22:43] <ajf> CSS's custom font support :)
# [22:43] * Quits: coeus (~coeus@dslb-084-061-060-194.pools.arcor-ip.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
# [22:43] <moo^_^> ajf: please stop
# [22:44] <moo^_^> one good thing cannot fix the harm they have done for the web
# [22:44] * Quits: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [22:44] <ajf> I know :/
# [22:45] * Joins: coeus (~coeus@dslb-084-061-060-194.pools.arcor-ip.net)
# [22:45] <ajf> http://www.ie6countdown.com/
# [22:46] <ajf> 7.7%... well that's a start
# [22:46] <ajf> it was nearly double that the year before
# [22:46] * Joins: N0va (~ricki@84.19.108.75)
# [22:47] * Joins: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86)
# [22:47] * Joins: timtux (~cocaine@46.102.244.60)
# [22:47] <ajf> moo^_^: out of curiosity, what is your default web browser?
# [22:48] <moo^_^> I use both Firefox and Chrome
# [22:48] * Joins: JonathanNeal (~Jonathan@71.21.25.227)
# [22:48] <ajf> Why both? FF's extensions?
# [22:48] <moo^_^> It's changing
# [22:48] <moo^_^> FF is nowadays faster so I am switching back
# [22:49] <moo^_^> and of course, Mozilla is non-profit
# [22:49] <moo^_^> and does a lot of good things
# [22:49] <ajf> it does
# [22:49] <ajf> Google's do no evil motto... has changed a little
# [22:49] <ajf> my big worry for the web just now is it's so complex... HTML, CSS and JS are no longer the simple beasts they once were
# [22:50] <moo^_^> google will be microsoft of 10s
# [22:50] <moo^_^> facing all the monopoly trials
# [22:50] <ajf> it may well be
# [22:50] <ajf> or perhaps Apple
# [22:50] * Quits: eysman (~eysman@AAnnecy-157-1-62-62.w86-219.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [22:50] <ajf> I dislike Google but I hate Apple
# [22:51] * Quits: Ricki__ (~ricki@84.19.108.75) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
# [22:53] * Quits: johnkpaul (~johnkpaul@216.127.124.253) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [22:54] <paul_irish> kurrent: thxx
# [22:54] <paul_irish> kurrent: i helped proliferate the word polyfill so i can take responsibility
# [22:54] * Quits: fearlesstost (fearlessto@gateway/facebook.com/session) (Quit: fearlesstost)
# [22:54] <paul_irish> IMO its distinctive from a "shim" because its a drop-in that only needs to exist when the feature isnt there
# [22:54] * Quits: squeakytoy (~squeakyto@107-232-96-87.cust.blixtvik.se) (Quit: Leaving)
# [22:55] <paul_irish> which means you dont need to send the code down the wire if its already implemented.
# [22:55] <ajf> remind me what a shim is?
# [22:55] * Joins: johnkpaul (~johnkpaul@216.127.124.253)
# [22:55] <paul_irish> like a localStorage shim would be store.set(key,val)
# [22:55] <paul_irish> some .. abstracted API like that
# [22:55] <ajf> ah
# [22:55] <paul_irish> vs a polyfill which is
# [22:55] <ajf> a drop-in replacement?
# [22:55] <paul_irish> window.localStorage = { setItem : function(){ ...
# [22:56] <paul_irish> would be the polyfill
# [22:56] <paul_irish> more or less.
# [22:56] <ajf> yes
# [22:56] <ajf> so I could make a shim like:
# [22:56] * Joins: squeakytoy (~squeakyto@107-232-96-87.cust.blixtvik.se)
# [22:56] <ajf> c = new ratherBadCanvasShim(200,200); c.box(0,0,100,100,"red");
# [22:56] * Joins: trumpetmic (~trumpetmi@159.182.183.6)
# [22:57] <ajf> and it would use tables OR divs + CSS OR VML OR Flash OR Silverlight
# [22:58] <paul_irish> heh yes
# [22:58] <paul_irish> precisely.
# [22:58] <paul_irish> thats why a new word seemed useful
# [22:58] * Quits: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [22:58] <ajf> I want to make this for some reason
# [22:58] <ajf> A canvas WITH TABLES
# [22:58] <ajf> because IE4 SUPPORT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO ME]
# [22:58] * Quits: MissionCritical (~MissionCr@unaffiliated/missioncritical) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [22:59] * Joins: anthracite (anthracite@pdpc/supporter/active/anthracite)
# [22:59] * Joins: arniokas (~arn@drsd-4db3ec60.pool.mediaWays.net)
# [22:59] * Quits: manuchill (~mstalfoor@81.69.16.186) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
# [22:59] * Joins: grantg (~chatzilla@69.88.160.3)
# [23:00] * Joins: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86)
# [23:00] <tw2113> IE4?
# [23:01] <ajf> just for the sake of it
# [23:01] <franksalim> walter zorn's jsgraphics?
# [23:03] <ajf> looks like what I was thinking of
# [23:05] * Quits: trumpetmic (~trumpetmi@159.182.183.6) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [23:08] * Quits: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [23:08] * Joins: _inc (~inc@unaffiliated/-inc/x-0498339)
# [23:08] * Quits: whitman (~whitman@87-194-159-116.bethere.co.uk)
# [23:09] * Quits: cccaldas (~cccaldas@177.40.220.55) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
# [23:09] * Joins: trumpetmic (~trumpetmi@159.182.183.6)
# [23:11] * Joins: cccaldas (~cccaldas@187.59.107.36)
# [23:13] * Joins: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86)
# [23:14] * Quits: sedovsek (~robert.se@93-103-104-107.dynamic.t-2.net)
# [23:15] * Joins: buribux (~buribu@186.214.114.204)
# [23:15] * Quits: buribux (~buribu@186.214.114.204) (Changing host)
# [23:15] * Joins: buribux (~buribu@unaffiliated/buribux)
# [23:18] * Quits: buribu (~buribu@unaffiliated/buribu) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [23:19] * Quits: shaDykhan (~shaDykhan@c-67-184-85-179.hsd1.il.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [23:19] * Quits: venom00ut (~venom00@unaffiliated/venom00) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
# [23:20] * Joins: andrewjbaker (~ajb@host-78-150-172-86.as13285.net)
# [23:21] * Joins: shaDykhan (~shaDykhan@c-67-184-85-179.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
# [23:23] * Joins: Ricki__ (~ricki@84.19.108.75)
# [23:24] * Joins: necolas (~necolas@host-92-12-148-102.as43234.net)
# [23:25] * Quits: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
# [23:26] * Joins: dnjaramba (~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86)
# [23:27] * Quits: N0va (~ricki@84.19.108.75) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [23:29] * Quits: necolas (~necolas@host-92-12-148-102.as43234.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [23:29] * Quits: blackjid1 (~jidonoso@pc-120-163-47-190.cm.vtr.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [23:32] * Quits: shaDykhan (~shaDykhan@c-67-184-85-179.hsd1.il.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [23:32] * Quits: squeakytoy (~squeakyto@107-232-96-87.cust.blixtvik.se) (Quit: Leaving)
# [23:34] * jacobolu_ is now known as jacobolus
# [23:34] * Joins: MissionCritical (~MissionCr@unaffiliated/missioncritical)
# [23:34] * Quits: iris777 (d16350f4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.209.99.80.244) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
# [23:36] * Quits: MisterSpeaker (~MisterSpe@did75-9-82-230-54-70.fbx.proxad.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [23:36] <Jayflux> its all about ie4 support these days
# [23:37] * Quits: grantg (~chatzilla@69.88.160.3) (Quit: ...)
# [23:38] * Quits: trumpetmic (~trumpetmi@159.182.183.6) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [23:39] * Joins: trumpetmic (~trumpetmi@159.182.183.6)
# [23:40] <tw2113> gotta support that family
# [23:40] * Quits: simenbrekken (~simenbrek@c85-196-101-98.static.sdsl.no) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [23:42] * Quits: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113) (Quit: Hi, I'm a quit message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over the world of IRC.)
# [23:42] * Joins: schnoomac (~schnoomac@melbourne.99cluster.com)
# [23:44] * Quits: sasori (~sasori@acl1-719bts.gw.smartbro.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [23:46] * Quits: devongovett (~devongove@pcp038545pcs.morro.reshall.calpoly.edu) (Quit: devongovett)
# [23:46] * Joins: devongovett (~devongove@pcp038545pcs.morro.reshall.calpoly.edu)
# [23:46] * Quits: devongovett (~devongove@pcp038545pcs.morro.reshall.calpoly.edu) (Client Quit)
# [23:47] * Joins: ColKurtz (~ColKurtz@pool-108-23-5-31.lsanca.fios.verizon.net)
# [23:48] * Quits: NickC_dev (~burt@wireless-128-62-92-79.public.utexas.edu) (Quit: NickC_dev)
# [23:50] * Quits: cccaldas (~cccaldas@187.59.107.36) (Quit: leaving)
# [23:50] * Joins: cccaldas (~cccaldas@187.59.107.36)
# [23:53] * Quits: barbagallo (~johnbarba@199.20.44.50) (Quit: barbagallo)
# [23:57] * Joins: squeakytoy (~squeakyto@107-232-96-87.cust.blixtvik.se)
# [23:57] * Quits: iamdustan (~DustanKas@rrcs-70-61-101-162.midsouth.biz.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
# [23:57] * Joins: blackjid (~jidonoso@pc-120-163-47-190.cm.vtr.net)
# [23:58] * Quits: digitalfiz (~fiz@unaffiliated/digitalfiz) (Quit: [Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/])
# Session Close: Tue Jan 24 00:00:00 2012

The end :)