/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2012-01-25 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Jan 25 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
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  32. # [00:20] <JonathanNeal> hey hey
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  35. # [00:20] <JonathanNeal> remysharp: great timing!
  36. # [00:20] <JonathanNeal> I'm free for a few minutes and could talk about potentially making changes to the shiv.
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  41. # [00:24] <Pomax> what are the chances of adding window.btoa and window.atob to html5shiv?
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  46. # [00:33] <remysharp> JonathanNeal: sure - maybe pull in to a pm - if that's the right word for it... I'm so frackin' new at irc it's painful, and everything I do learn I programatically try to forget
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  56. # [00:49] <paul_irish> Pomax: wha
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  58. # [00:49] <paul_irish> Pomax: html5shiv *only* does the elements
  59. # [00:50] <paul_irish> atob/etc are ripe candidates for other es polyfill scripts
  60. # [00:50] <paul_irish> and they've already been done. they're just not gonna ship with html5shiv by default
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  106. # [01:48] <Pomax> paul_irish: ah
  107. # [01:48] <grantg> hey Pomax
  108. # [01:48] <grantg> hey paul_irish
  109. # [01:48] <paul_irish> sup grantg
  110. # [01:48] <grantg> hey, everyone on the server list
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  112. # [01:48] <paul_irish> :p
  113. # [01:48] <grantg> nothin'
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  116. # [01:49] <paul_irish> grantg: question
  117. # [01:49] <paul_irish> what tooling from the browser would you like to see?
  118. # [01:49] <paul_irish> memory, CPU, GPU, etc
  119. # [01:49] <paul_irish> css. :p
  120. # [01:49] <grantg> Kind of a weird question
  121. # [01:49] <grantg> umm
  122. # [01:50] <grantg> For the gfx to not have random slowdowns in chrome canary right now. D:
  123. # [01:50] <paul_irish> what could be added to chrome devtools that would help you build amazing webgames, etc
  124. # [01:50] <paul_irish> better insight into __
  125. # [01:50] <paul_irish> or w/e
  126. # [01:50] <grantg> CPU time spent by the browser rather than just javascript
  127. # [01:50] <grantg> for specific canvas ops
  128. # [01:51] <grantg> possibly GC timing profiles
  129. # [01:51] <grantg> Measure GC hiccups
  130. # [01:51] <grantg> hmm
  131. # [01:51] <paul_irish> ah. i wonder if about:profiler gives you some of the first
  132. # [01:52] <grantg> ah, thanks
  133. # [01:52] <grantg> I keep forgetting about the tracer too
  134. # [01:52] <paul_irish> its newish and funky
  135. # [01:52] <paul_irish> yeah tracer is weird. we're publishing a doc on how to use it best. soon
  136. # [01:52] <grantg> Well, what about the state of the code being compiled by V8?
  137. # [01:53] <grantg> Like a "hotness" list or something
  138. # [01:53] <grantg> For what V8 has tried to optimize the most
  139. # [01:54] <grantg> I notice V8 can be sporadic sometimes with optimizations
  140. # [01:54] <grantg> Maybe it can give hints to the dev why or why not something was optimized
  141. # [01:54] <grantg> "could not optimize" warnings
  142. # [01:54] <paul_irish> i like it
  143. # [01:54] <grantg> but in a friendly, non-100000 line long debug log.
  144. # [01:55] <grantg> Maybe in one of those graphical bar layouts
  145. # [01:55] <grantg> kind of similar to the timelines format of request logging.
  146. # [01:56] <grantg> With the optimizations done added to each bar
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  148. # [01:56] <grantg> and time spent compiling possibly
  149. # [01:56] <grantg> idk
  150. # [01:56] <grantg> just throwing stuff out there
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  152. # [01:56] <paul_irish> its appreciated
  153. # [01:57] <grantg> Something to easily guide the optimization process
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  155. # [01:57] <grantg> Or to at least avoid bad coding routines
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  157. # [01:58] <grantg> The CPU profiler just shows CPU time
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  159. # [01:58] <grantg> Need better insight into V8
  160. # [01:58] <grantg> For how well that time is being spent
  161. # [01:59] <grantg> I guess have multiple profile layouts or pages to throw at the chrome canary users
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  166. # [02:01] <grantg> yeah, no prob, more feedback to js devs on their code is always better
  167. # [02:01] <grantg> just make sure it's easy to grasp data
  168. # [02:02] <Pomax> find out which JIT improvements were made?
  169. # [02:02] <paul_irish> iunno about "always better" ... certainly for you and games developers
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  172. # [02:02] <grantg> Like which functions got elected for special compilation
  173. # [02:02] <paul_irish> but Joe jQuery doesnt need to know about JIT status :p
  174. # [02:02] <grantg> heh
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  176. # [02:05] <Pomax> can't we turn everyone into a JS dev?
  177. # [02:05] <Pomax> surely it is the way of the future
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  182. # [02:05] <grantg> How it feels trying to weed out more profile data that seems arbitrary: http://chzscience.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/funny-science-news-experiments-memes-dog-science-fuzzy-logic.jpg
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  184. # [02:06] <grantg> That's the only downside. :P
  185. # [02:07] * grantg rushes to attend to a server getting HTTP 500 errors.
  186. # [02:08] * tw2113 walks in whistling
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  188. # [02:10] <grantg> Heh, silly chromium, texture pop-ins are supposed to be for desktop games only.
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  193. # [02:13] <grantg> tw2113: The amount of whistling is too damn high. :O
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  199. # [02:26] <grantg> paul_irish: The GC in V8 spoils game devs
  200. # [02:26] <grantg> It's way smoother than Firefox's GC
  201. # [02:26] <grantg> Firefox like to take 100 ms often to GC
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  203. # [02:27] <grantg> Firefox 9 actually has longer pauses than Firefox 8 here
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  205. # [02:27] <grantg> Firefox GC makes frame rates horrible
  206. # [02:28] <grantg> Also, lack of v-sync in Firefox makes things worse
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  208. # [02:28] <grantg> requestAnimationFrame in Firefox does NOT v-sync
  209. # [02:28] <grantg> just an arbitrary throttle in firefox that has its own quirks
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  507. # [10:48] <pixolin> Hello. Does anyone know a textmate bundle to use tidy on html5?
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  664. # [14:58] <mantas322> I have a question of the appropriate syntax of adding in "Expires" to my cache manifest file
  665. # [14:58] <mantas322> do I need to add "Expires: Fri, 30 Oct 2015 14:19:41 GMT"
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  667. # [14:58] <mantas322> to every line?
  668. # [14:59] <JakeA> Every line?
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  670. # [14:59] <mantas322> sorry im a noob
  671. # [15:00] <mantas322> so my cache manifest consist of images and webpages
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  673. # [15:00] <JakeA> Expires details should be in the http headers of the resources, not in the manifest file
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  677. # [15:01] <mantas322> can u explain further what that means?
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  679. # [15:01] <JakeA> the manifest file itself should never far-future cache, else your users will never get updates, because their browser will never update the manifest
  680. # [15:01] <mantas322> what are http headers of resources
  681. # [15:01] <JakeA> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_HTTP_header_fields
  682. # [15:02] <JakeA> http://developer.yahoo.com/blogs/ydn/posts/2007/05/high_performanc_2/
  683. # [15:03] <JakeA> When a web server sends a file, it includes headers that tell the browser what kind of file it is & how it should cache it if at all
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  687. # [15:07] <mantas322> Thanks
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  701. # [15:22] <dijvoo> Is it considered bad practice to place anchors around headings, paragraphs, etc? (In other words: placing a link over a block element) Because it does validate, but I'm having some issues regarding this when editing the content in a RTE such as TinyMCE ... it strips away the anchor when I use a block element inside
  702. # [15:23] <Murof> :dijvoo Im not that experienced, but I wouldnt take as a well formated HTML the one exported/constructed from TinyMCE or any other js-editor
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  704. # [15:25] <dijvoo> Murof: I don't really get what you are trying to say exactly, but just to clarify: the HTML content (that I wrote) is loaded into the TinyMCE for editing (it is for a website with editable blocks/pages). But when it is loaded into the editor, it sometimes strips away some of my HTML
  705. # [15:25] <dijvoo> but I just want to know the answer from a HTML perspective: is it "wrong" to place links over elements such as h2, p, etc ?
  706. # [15:26] <Ms2ger> dijvoo, that's allowed
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  714. # [15:30] <dijvoo> Ms2ger: I know it's supposed to be allowed, but is this allowed since html5 or has this always been allowed? I can't remember anymore
  715. # [15:30] <Ms2ger> Since html5
  716. # [15:31] <dijvoo> Probably that's why then ... TinyMCE isn't compatible with it yet
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  718. # [15:32] <dijvoo> Ms2ger: do you know if it causes issues in older browsers (using h3 etc inside a)? In other words: is it backwards compatible?
  719. # [15:32] <Ms2ger> Firefox 4 is the most recent version that might have issues, I think
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  721. # [15:33] <dijvoo> Ms2ger: what about IE7+ and <a><h3>title</h3></a> ?
  722. # [15:33] <Ms2ger> I think it will work, but I don't have windows handy to test
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  1006. # [17:35] <philihp> coding music suggestions GO
  1007. # [17:35] <philihp> i need to block out office sounds right now and have listened to everything on my ipod a dozen times over
  1008. # [17:35] <JakeA> Parts & Labor
  1009. # [17:35] <JakeA> Just the right kind of noisy
  1010. # [17:37] <philihp> done. thanks.
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  1012. # [17:38] <JakeA> If you want something softer, talkdemonic or miracle fortress
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  1020. # [17:47] <marten> links to free/open sourve Web dev books please,
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  1023. # [17:48] <Murof> philihp: simplyNoise
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  1025. # [17:48] <marten> got eloq JS and the dive into HTML5
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  1032. # [17:58] <MisterSpeaker> JakeA: Nice tip on the Parts & Labor! Thanks!
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  1034. # [18:01] <JonathanNeal> hello
  1035. # [18:02] <marten> oh hi
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  1037. # [18:02] <JonathanNeal> what's new?
  1038. # [18:03] <JonathanNeal> Loving http://html5please.us/
  1039. # [18:03] <marten> its one nice reference piece indeed
  1040. # [18:05] <ryan_tait> yup
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  1042. # [18:06] <JonathanNeal> It also tells me what needs a better flash fallback.
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  1048. # [18:07] <JonathanNeal> There's a pretty smart flash guy that has been emailing me about working on a simple video player, with the idea being that we front all of the methods on the <object> to be as close to <video> as possible. I think we should start with <audio>.
  1049. # [18:10] <JonathanNeal> Also, I think we could use http://mp3player.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/template_js/TemplateJS.as to create a really nice start.
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  1062. # [18:29] <IamTrying> I have to play this file https://gist.github.com/1677406 . Playing fine, but anyone can download and copy my file. How can i set lock mode, so that nobody can download or make copy?
  1063. # [18:32] <Pomax> you realise that "playing the file" means "downloading the file, then playing it", right?
  1064. # [18:33] <Pomax> if you want to lock it down, you'll have to do a lot more work, making the server aware of who has access to it and when, and even then someone can download your file because you're hosting it on the internet and all they have to do is download it with a modified header that pretends it's a normal play request by a browser.
  1065. # [18:34] <Pomax> or make it streaming, which is a completely diferent route altogether.
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  1073. # [18:41] <mantas322> is it possible that my gtablets' html5 web browser has CACHE manuifest But not local storage??
  1074. # [18:42] <JakeA> LocalStorage is an older and simpler spec, I wouldn't expect to find a browser that didn't do that but did AppCache
  1075. # [18:42] <JakeA> but hey, browsers have surprised me before
  1076. # [18:42] <mantas322> no
  1077. # [18:42] <mantas322> html5test.com says it has it
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  1079. # [18:43] <mantas322> guh!
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  1085. # [18:51] <IamTrying> Pomax, YouTube can you download the file you are watching? I am trying similar you can watch but not download and keep it (you have to be smarter to copy it).
  1086. # [18:52] <IamTrying> At-least in my case its easy to copy like /1/video.file.ishere.please.please.download.me.copy.me.flv how can i hide those?
  1087. # [18:53] <IamTrying> Its very open and easy for someone to copy: https://gist.github.com/1677406
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  1093. # [18:58] <IamTrying> Even if i encrypt the code browser needs it again plain html5 code, but how do i security it? Hello Html5!! wake up its 2012 competition over-all.
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  1109. # [19:03] <Demp> I have an onmouseover event that listens to a canvas element and I want to fill a selected rectangular area whenever the event triggers, what's more efficient: matching the pixel colour of the same area by getting the imagedata.data object and checking to see if it's not the same colour and if not - fill the area or just filling that area anyway using context.rect and context.fill?
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  1119. # [19:13] <Demp> got ping timeout, in case that someone answered
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  1123. # [19:17] <Pomax> sounds like a job for jsperf.
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  1127. # [19:23] <mantas322> yay!
  1128. # [19:23] <mantas322> everything works
  1129. # [19:23] <mantas322> with minor mobile safari glitches
  1130. # [19:24] <mantas322> stupid "would u like to increase your local storage memory?" popup causes and issue with cache manifest
  1131. # [19:24] <mantas322> but besides that my dynamic cache manifest works on what seems to be all devices
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  1133. # [19:24] <mantas322> thanks for believing in me jakeA
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  1186. # [20:47] <marten> I need some help, i need to scrape some data from a simple web page
  1187. # [20:47] <marten> I tried using a simple XHR but it just starts to whine CORS acces control all over
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  1228. # [21:37] <danbeam> anybody know how specificity works with multiple classes on the same node? i.e. .class1.class2
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  1233. # [21:41] <Jon47> danbeam - I think the order of the classes on the element does not matter, the only thing that matters is the order of the rule in the stylesheet
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  1235. # [21:43] <rupl> danbeam: the class that is declared later in the stylesheet will override the former. like Jon47 said, the order in which you use them does not matter. (class="class1 class2" = class="class2 class1")
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  1264. # [22:23] <JonathanNeal> Okay, I've been learning flash today between a project, and I think I can write a simple polyfill for audio
  1265. # [22:23] <danbeam> rupl: Jon47: that wasn't my questions
  1266. # [22:23] <danbeam> question**
  1267. # [22:23] <danbeam> is .class1 less specific than .class1.class2
  1268. # [22:24] <danbeam> well, less doesn't really make sense
  1269. # [22:24] <danbeam> but is it as specific
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  1271. # [22:24] <danbeam> or in my case, is .class1 .class2 as specific as .class1.class2 (if you could change where the classes were in the markup)
  1272. # [22:24] <danbeam> divya: ^
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  1274. # [22:25] <divya> danbeam: wait what are you saying?
  1275. # [22:25] <Jon47> I think if there's another token in it, that makes it more specific
  1276. # [22:25] <danbeam> is .class1 .class2 as specific as .class1.class2
  1277. # [22:25] <divya> .class1 .class2 means .class2 is a child selector of .class1
  1278. # [22:25] <danbeam> if you could change where the classes were in the markup
  1279. # [22:25] <divya> .class1.class2 means .class1 and .class2 apply to same selector
  1280. # [22:26] <divya> so how do you even compare?
  1281. # [22:26] <danbeam> read up ^
  1282. # [22:27] <rupl> danbeam: it is less specific than chained classes - reference: http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/cascade.html#specificity
  1283. # [22:27] <danbeam> the # of classes in a selector (in theory) just bumps up that 1 part of specificity
  1284. # [22:28] <danbeam> rupl: there's no clarification there
  1285. # [22:28] <danbeam> rupl: I'm looking right now
  1286. # [22:28] <danbeam> li.red .level would also be 2, right?
  1287. # [22:28] <danbeam> vs. li.red.level
  1288. # [22:28] <danbeam> (in the class section of specificity representation there)
  1289. # [22:29] <rupl> no that's different. and your orig Q was "is .class1 as specific as .class1.class2" and the answer is no, the chained are more specific
  1290. # [22:29] <divya> yeah
  1291. # [22:29] <danbeam> .class1 .class2
  1292. # [22:29] <danbeam> vs .class1.class2
  1293. # [22:29] <rupl> well that's apples to oranges, it depends on markup in that case
  1294. # [22:30] <Jon47> danbeam my guess is that they are equivalent, and therefore the location of the rule in the stylesheet will determine precedence. see here: http://dabblet.com/gist/1678794
  1295. # [22:30] <rupl> unless you have `div.class1 > div.class1.class2` then you've got a scenario where that applies
  1296. # [22:30] <danbeam> Jon47: ok
  1297. # [22:30] <Jon47> rupl i don't think it's correct that the chained is more specific, at least not in practice
  1298. # [22:30] <danbeam> Jon47: that's what I thought
  1299. # [22:31] <danbeam> Jon47: that's unfortunate, as it seems like .c1.c2 should be more specific
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  1301. # [22:31] <Jon47> *shrug*
  1302. # [22:31] <rupl> Jon47: word
  1303. # [22:31] <danbeam> it's a relationship that's (literally) specific to 1 node
  1304. # [22:32] <danbeam> and only 1 node, ever
  1305. # [22:32] <rupl> IDs, bro :)
  1306. # [22:32] <danbeam> seems like that should have it's own part of specificity
  1307. # [22:32] <Jon47> i found this to be pretty helpful: http://css-tricks.com/specifics-on-css-specificity/
  1308. # [22:32] <danbeam> rupl: inheritance, bro
  1309. # [22:33] <danbeam> rupl: I have a general set of styles, i.e. .overlay, then one specific overlay is .subpage
  1310. # [22:33] <Jon47> !important is always a last resort in your case
  1311. # [22:33] <divya> idk i am okay with it.
  1312. # [22:33] <rupl> danbeam: I was joking, not trying to troll sry
  1313. # [22:33] <danbeam> rupl: k
  1314. # [22:33] <divya> child selectors imply a relationship
  1315. # [22:33] <danbeam> divya: ya
  1316. # [22:33] <divya> so when that exists it overrides any selectors that dont imply that.
  1317. # [22:34] <danbeam> divya: aren't all relational selectors the same, though?
  1318. # [22:34] <danbeam> >, +, ~, ?
  1319. # [22:34] <danbeam> + and ~, for example
  1320. # [22:34] <danbeam> + implies only the preceding
  1321. # [22:34] <danbeam> ~ means fuzzy sibling
  1322. # [22:34] <danbeam> seems like the specific nature of + should override ~
  1323. # [22:35] <divya> yeah they are. i am saying in this case .class1 .class2 overriding .class2.class3 makes sense.
  1324. # [22:35] <danbeam> why?
  1325. # [22:36] <danbeam> .c1.c2 can only be 1 node
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  1327. # [22:36] <danbeam> just like an #id
  1328. # [22:36] <danbeam> but #id has much higher specificity
  1329. # [22:36] <divya> but it not an id.
  1330. # [22:36] <danbeam> well, .c1.c2 can only be specific nodes
  1331. # [22:36] <danbeam> **
  1332. # [22:36] <divya> #id is special cased
  1333. # [22:36] <divya> and exists to override anything else most of the time.
  1334. # [22:37] <divya> .c1 .c2 means apply this style when .c1 is a parent of .c2
  1335. # [22:37] <divya> .c1.c2 means apply these styles when both classes exist.
  1336. # [22:37] <divya> so for me when .c1 is a parent then it seems to me that that relationship should apply
  1337. # [22:37] <rupl> I believe the chained classes do retain higher specificity. Have I made a mistake? http://jsfiddle.net/UXt4Y/
  1338. # [22:38] <danbeam> s/parent/ancestor/
  1339. # [22:38] <danbeam> > = parent
  1340. # [22:38] <hsbot> <hint>:1:1: parse error on input `='
  1341. # [22:39] <divya> rupl: no danbeam does not want a parent
  1342. # [22:39] <divya> he wants .class1.class2 to override .class1 .class2
  1343. # [22:39] <divya> which i dont understand.
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  1345. # [22:40] <danbeam> rupl: no, like Jon47 said, http://jsfiddle.net/danbeam/UXt4Y/1/
  1346. # [22:40] <danbeam> equal specificity
  1347. # [22:41] <rupl> ah nice.
  1348. # [22:41] <danbeam> divya: you're saying that there's a relationship between the classes spatially either way
  1349. # [22:41] <danbeam> divya: but I'm saying ancestor isn't as specific as both on same node
  1350. # [22:42] <danbeam> divya: .c1 .c2 could be 5 nodes apart
  1351. # [22:42] <danbeam> or an unlimited number
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  1353. # [22:42] <divya> how does it matter
  1354. # [22:42] <danbeam> .c1.c2 means exactly same node
  1355. # [22:42] <divya> you imply you want a relationship on a child element
  1356. # [22:42] <danbeam> why should a > b override a b ?
  1357. # [22:42] <divya> then dont use .c1 .c2
  1358. # [22:42] <divya> it should because thats what you indicate should happen!
  1359. # [22:42] <Jon47> danbeam it has one more token, that's why
  1360. # [22:43] <divya> if you dont want it to, then dont use properties that intersect
  1361. # [22:43] <danbeam> Jon47: ancestor operator?
  1362. # [22:43] <divya> or use a better selector.
  1363. # [22:43] <danbeam> divya: if I'm using OO CSS
  1364. # [22:43] <danbeam> divya: .page .overlay
  1365. # [22:43] <danbeam> divya: vs .overlay.subpage
  1366. # [22:43] <divya> why do you need .page .overlay?
  1367. # [22:43] <divya> should it just not be .overlay?
  1368. # [22:43] <danbeam> I do
  1369. # [22:43] <danbeam> trust me
  1370. # [22:44] <divya> well you are making an assertion without basis :)
  1371. # [22:44] <divya> except i should trust you for that :)
  1372. # [22:44] <danbeam> because only those inside a .page should do something that those outside of a .page shouldn't
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  1374. # [22:44] <divya> then you should make sure it does not have properties that intersect with .overlay.subpage
  1375. # [22:44] <danbeam> well, I just have to do .page .overlay.subpage
  1376. # [22:45] <danbeam> but this is why I'm asking
  1377. # [22:45] <danbeam> as I figured .overlay.subpage would work
  1378. # [22:45] <danbeam> but it does not
  1379. # [22:45] <danbeam> does that give more context?
  1380. # [22:45] <divya> as i said, the properties shouldnt be intersecting.
  1381. # [22:46] <divya> if they do, you have an architectural problem on your hand.
  1382. # [22:46] <danbeam> properties of what?
  1383. # [22:46] <divya> properties of .page .overlay
  1384. # [22:46] <divya> and .overlay.subpage
  1385. # [22:46] <danbeam> what's the meaning of naming "class"?
  1386. # [22:47] <divya> ?
  1387. # [22:47] <danbeam> so that you have a generic set of properties you can apply to other objects
  1388. # [22:47] <danbeam> no?
  1389. # [22:47] <danbeam> you're saying I can't derive classes
  1390. # [22:47] <danbeam> aka inheritance
  1391. # [22:47] <divya> i am saying nothing of that sort
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  1393. # [22:48] <divya> i am saying when you ask the browser to apply a set of styles when something is a child of another selector
  1394. # [22:48] <divya> thats what it would do.
  1395. # [22:48] <divya> if you dont want that to happen then you should not ask it to.
  1396. # [22:48] <danbeam> disagree as seemingly two classes on the same node is more specific (in my mind)
  1397. # [22:49] <divya> thats what you seem to think. it is not. it merely means if that particular element has both these classnames
  1398. # [22:49] <divya> apply that style
  1399. # [22:49] <divya> it does not indicate what to do in the presence of another selector.
  1400. # [22:49] <divya> which clearly the child selector or combinators do.
  1401. # [22:50] <danbeam> I don't see how your "both have this class name and a relation" argument applies differently to ancestor selectors
  1402. # [22:51] <danbeam> you're just telling me what a browser does, not what it ought to do (which I disagree with)
  1403. # [22:51] <danbeam> just because something *is* implemented in a way, doesn't mean I have to agree with it
  1404. # [22:51] <Jon47> the general ancestor selector is sort of implicit.. there's not an actual token to represent it, just white-space
  1405. # [22:51] <danbeam> so it's just opinion
  1406. # [22:51] <divya> danbeam: i dont understand why you keep restating what I said differently.
  1407. # [22:51] <divya> i agree and understand browser implementations and how it works in the spec to be reasonable
  1408. # [22:51] <divya> if you have an issue yes by all means take it to www-style.
  1409. # [22:55] * danbeam didn't mean to start the flame war, and is sure that's all he'll get on www-style as well
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  1414. # [22:58] <divya> danbeam: it is as good as insisting that 6 * 4 + 3 should evaluate to 42 instead of 27
  1415. # [22:59] <danbeam> divya: but that's something everybody agreed on, CSS doesn't really have any other sources as inspiration than I know of
  1416. # [22:59] <danbeam> order of operations is the same everywhere
  1417. # [22:59] <divya> err the csswg has agreed on the specificity
  1418. # [23:00] <divya> and i agree with their rationale.
  1419. # [23:00] <divya> it is pretty much identical to what 'everybody has agreed on'
  1420. # [23:00] <danbeam> I use their result, but don't always agree
  1421. # [23:00] <divya> you could also claim not to agree with math and go your own way
  1422. # [23:00] <danbeam> everybody = more than one lang, in one's opinion
  1423. # [23:00] <divya> css doesnt have multiple langs.
  1424. # [23:01] <divya> it is a syntax as much as math calculations are a syntax.
  1425. # [23:01] <danbeam> then they don't have "everybody"'s consensus, is what I'm saying
  1426. # [23:01] <divya> err they do.
  1427. # [23:01] <divya> they dont have yours.
  1428. # [23:02] <danbeam> I don't know of anything similar to CSS that they agreed with on syntax is what I'm saying
  1429. # [23:02] <divya> there isnt any usecase for such a syntax outside of css.
  1430. # [23:02] <divya> there is one for selectors API
  1431. # [23:02] <danbeam> python, C++, Java, JavaScript, Perl, etc. all have the same order of operations
  1432. # [23:02] <divya> but that follows CSS
  1433. # [23:03] * Quits: diraol (~diraol@189.38.130.99) (Quit: Leaving.)
  1434. # [23:03] <divya> every library that is based on css follows the same order
  1435. # [23:03] <divya> sass/less/stylus etc
  1436. # [23:03] <danbeam> they were all an afterthought of the original spec
  1437. # [23:04] * danbeam mentioned he's not religious
  1438. # [23:04] * danbeam so he's gonna leave religious debate now
  1439. # [23:04] * Quits: peol (~andree@unaffiliated/peol) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  1440. # [23:04] <danbeam> Jon47: divya: rupl: thank you for your help
  1441. # [23:05] <rupl> np
  1442. # [23:06] <JonathanNeal> okay i've got a polyfill for <audio> that's really, really, small.
  1443. # [23:06] * Parts: danbeam (~bitlbee@unaffiliated/danbeam) ("lates")
  1444. # [23:06] * Quits: tsatse (~tsatse@men75-12-88-183-197-49.fbx.proxad.net) (Quit: Leaving)
  1445. # [23:07] <JonathanNeal> It's a swf that is 1117 bytes uncompressed and will translate the events on an <audio> element to the <object>element.
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  1451. # [23:16] <skylamer`> xa
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  1458. # [23:22] <LuTze> I have a company logo in header, navigation below, and banner under the nav, I don't want to repeat role="banner" in header > h1, and nav + div.banner, is there role="logo" (or something for registered trademarks) ??
  1459. # [23:22] <LuTze> :P
  1460. # [23:23] <LuTze> I hate this...
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  1462. # [23:31] * ericduran|away is now known as ericduran
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  1464. # [23:32] <Pomax> I don't see anything more specific than banner in the ARIA spec
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  1467. # [23:40] <LuTze> Pomax: thx i used role banner on banner and good old way id=logo on h1
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  1475. # [23:51] * theresaanna is now known as theresa_away
  1476. # [23:51] <LuTze> STOP ACTA
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  1488. # Session Close: Thu Jan 26 00:00:00 2012

The end :)