/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2012-02-09 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Feb 09 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
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  77. # [01:53] <TimothyA> Can I ask questions here about the drop event and the fileapi?
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  189. # [05:00] <JonathanNeal> hello
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  215. # [05:29] <cloudgeek> is there any free best template in html5 there
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  218. # [05:31] <c_t_montgomery> cloudgeek html5boilerplate is pretty awesome. http://html5boilerplate.com/
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  221. # [05:37] <tw2113> and the creators hang out here
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  223. # [05:37] <moshee> what's a really good screen serif for body text?
  224. # [05:37] <tw2113> times new roman?
  225. # [05:37] <tw2113> it's tried and tested
  226. # [05:37] <moshee> but but but
  227. # [05:38] <moshee> it's bad :(
  228. # [05:38] <tw2113> georgia?
  229. # [05:38] <tw2113> :D
  230. # [05:38] <c_t_montgomery> georgia is a good one
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  232. # [05:39] <moshee> oh well, guess I will go spend an hour on google webfonts
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  235. # [05:41] <c_t_montgomery> @moshee check this out: http://hellohappy.org/beautiful-web-type/
  236. # [05:41] <c_t_montgomery> those are all from google webfonts, just fyi
  237. # [05:41] <moshee> lol, almost had me fooled there, thought those were images
  238. # [05:42] <moshee> nice link though, thanks
  239. # [05:42] <c_t_montgomery> np
  240. # [05:42] <tw2113> isn't sans serif recommended for body type?
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  242. # [05:42] <moshee> I like to be sylish
  243. # [05:42] <moshee> stylish
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  254. # [06:00] <JonathanNeal> Thoughts? http://localhost/caniuse/canvas+json.html http://localhost/caniuse/apng.html
  255. # [06:00] <JonathanNeal> whooops, Y I NO LOCALHOST
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  257. # [06:02] <JonathanNeal> http://sandbox.thewikies.com/caniuse/canvas+json.html http://sandbox.thewikies.com/caniuse/apng.html
  258. # [06:02] <c_t_montgomery> oh nice
  259. # [06:03] <cloudgeek> any nice template for html5
  260. # [06:03] <c_t_montgomery> JonathanNeal i esp love how when you hover over the support status, the browsers that support it dropdown and you can go download them. looks awesome!
  261. # [06:04] <c_t_montgomery> cloudgeek i told you a little while ago - html5boilerplate.com :D
  262. # [06:04] <cloudgeek> okay thnaks man
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  289. # [06:43] <dpogue> Any idea when [every browser except Opera] will have <input type="color">?
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  356. # [07:58] <tw2113> when the browser makers decide to?
  357. # [07:58] <tw2113> jk sorta
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  367. # [08:00] <JonathanNeal> c_t_montgomery: thank you
  368. # [08:01] <c_t_montgomery> JonathanNeal :D
  369. # [08:02] * tw2113 has been playing with JSON
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  372. # [08:03] <JonathanNeal> c_t_montgomery: any improvements you would like to see?
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  374. # [08:03] <JonathanNeal> if you change the .html to .js or .json or .xml, it will change the output type.
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  376. # [08:04] <JonathanNeal> if you change the canvas+json a different string of features, it will deliver content based on that.
  377. # [08:04] <JonathanNeal> if you add a callback ?callback=myFunction it will wrap the output in a jsonp callback of that name.
  378. # [08:12] <tw2113> JonathanNeal are you one of the people behind caniuse.com? or is this something different?
  379. # [08:15] <skylamer`> JonathanNeal, coll' hi, i like your 'html5css' thingie! :)
  380. # [08:15] <skylamer`> so grats
  381. # [08:18] <JonathanNeal> tw2113: i'm working with the people behind caniuse, yes.
  382. # [08:18] <tw2113> cool
  383. # [08:19] <JonathanNeal> skylamer`: ah, the whatwg presentional css?
  384. # [08:19] <JonathanNeal> skylamer`: that's based on a project of mine @ http://iecss.com/
  385. # [08:19] <JonathanNeal> tw2113: the idea is that we give an api anyone can use from anywhere to get the power of caniuse in theirs apps and on their websites.
  386. # [08:20] <tw2113> no arguement here
  387. # [08:20] <tw2113> argument even, damn E
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  398. # [08:40] <JonathanNeal> tw2113: cool, thanks guys for trying so many different things.
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  401. # [08:41] <tw2113> JonathanNeal as i tweeted about 15 minutes ago: "winners use html5/css3/jquery whenever they can"
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  438. # [09:37] <andyMak> hi all, i'm wondering if someone can tell me why this canvas isn't working? i'm following a tutorial and it seems fine to me but no rectangle is showing up.. http://pastebin.com/tS50Juaz
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  448. # [09:48] <shwetank> andyMak that should work fine
  449. # [09:49] <shwetank> http://jsbin.com/eboyig
  450. # [09:53] <andyMak> strange yours works fine but mine doesnt work at all
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  453. # [09:58] <JonathanNeal> updated the documentation for the api @ http://sandbox.thewikies.com/caniuse/
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  455. # [09:59] <andyMak> ok im getting.. Uncaught TypeError: Cannot call method 'getContext' of null
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  457. # [10:04] <JonathanNeal> andyMak: on my site?
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  460. # [10:06] <andyMak> no on my local maschine.. i think it's null because my JS is running before the page is loading thus canvas = null
  461. # [10:06] <andyMak> just researching the est way to fix this, some say put onload in body some say wrap in jQuery some say wrap in a function
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  632. # [14:31] <pandeiro> is there a way i can stop a url hash from scrolling to a point in the page? i have tried e.preventDefault() on my onhashchange listener but that doesn't seem to do it
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  635. # [14:38] <skylamer`> maybe try to do that on the link that's poiting with hash there, not on event :)
  636. # [14:38] <pandeiro> skylamer`: thanks yeah the link's already been neutered :)
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  641. # [14:41] <pandeiro> it's weird because I have no named anchors to jump to, yet chromium seems to guess that b/c there's a link with that hash as its href attr, that must be it
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  753. # [17:00] <WebDragon> where's the best place to ask questions involving stuff not working in MSIE when the site's coded up (ecommerce solution on Magento) with XHTML 1.0., around here on freenode
  754. # [17:00] <WebDragon> there's no xhtml channel and #tml is apparently empty
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  757. # [17:01] <WebDragon> got an issue with MSIE on www.thinkaesthetica.com where - well here's two screenies: www.thinkaesthetica.com/ta-ss-1.jpg www.thinkaesthetica.com/ta-ss-2.jpg
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  759. # [17:02] <WebDragon> ss2 has submenu text disappearing from beneath the Shop menu (no idea why it's invisible), and ss1 has the footer all kinds of screwed up as well as the slider
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  784. # [17:24] <Jon47> WebDragon, I doubt those are issues with XHTML specifically, you just need to find someone who's willing to work on css bugs in IE
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  786. # [17:25] <WebDragon> that's part of the problem. #css has turned into a troll-fest. can't ask for help in there without getting blasted
  787. # [17:26] <Jon47> this isn't the sort of bug that anybody likes to help with if they're not getting paid ;)
  788. # [17:26] <WebDragon> I'd test it myself if I wasn't set up with dual-booting, where all my tools and passwords are on the linux side
  789. # [17:27] <WebDragon> virtualbox works okay but once it captures the mouse it won't let me have it back
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  791. # [17:27] <Jon47> press ctrl twice to get the mouse back
  792. # [17:27] <Jon47> er.. command
  793. # [17:27] <Jon47> whatever your "host" key is set to
  794. # [17:27] <WebDragon> hopefully the more recent release of Fedora (which I've not updated to yet) solves this
  795. # [17:27] <WebDragon> yeah that's what it's _supposed_ to do
  796. # [17:28] <WebDragon> if only it actually worked
  797. # [17:29] <WebDragon> meanwhile I gotta problem to solve, sooner than it would take me to back up everything, install a new OS update, and carry on
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  912. # [19:20] <WebDragon> my god why is www.thinkaesthetica.com/portfolio/advertising such an abomination in IE7 Standards mode ( switching with IE's Developer Tools pane)
  913. # [19:21] <WebDragon> holy exploding particle theory, Batman!
  914. # [19:21] <WebDragon> naturally one of their biggest corporate clients is still corporate-wide on IE 7
  915. # [19:21] <WebDragon> FML!
  916. # [19:21] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@50-0-133-210.dsl.static.sonic.net)
  917. # [19:22] <csmrfx> Because IE7 is suck.
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  919. # [19:22] * csmrfx like a boss
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  921. # [19:23] <WebDragon> my god how do I even BEGIN to debug this
  922. # [19:23] <csmrfx> WebDragon: can you mention some piece of software that you use thats from 2006
  923. # [19:24] <WebDragon> I wouldn't even begin to know where to start looking
  924. # [19:24] <csmrfx> It's like "Gowds what is your business, archiving old software"
  925. # [19:24] <csmrfx> WebDragon: well, start with figuring out if it really in quirks or not
  926. # [19:24] <WebDragon> no it's in standards mode
  927. # [19:25] <csmrfx> ok then you need to start setting the box-model and bounds and "zoom" and all the other IE specific madness
  928. # [19:25] <WebDragon> even added the X-UA-Compat header to force it out of 'compatibility view' in IE 7 and up
  929. # [19:25] <WebDragon> it's gotta be partially a box-model issue, that much I'm sure of
  930. # [19:25] <csmrfx> paddings and margins still mixed in IE7? I forget
  931. # [19:25] <WebDragon> insofar as hasLayout issues .. I dunno
  932. # [19:26] * csmrfx memory is merciful
  933. # [19:26] <WebDragon> I forget too, don't feel too bad
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  935. # [19:26] <WebDragon> I was really thinking I wasn't going to have to deal with IE7 at a corporate-wide level by now
  936. # [19:26] <WebDragon> those with XP would have at least updated to IE8
  937. # [19:26] <WebDragon> and everyone else to 9
  938. # [19:27] <csmrfx> frankly, telling clients to use at least IE8 is part of providing professional advice and real added value
  939. # [19:27] <csmrfx> and by telling I mean the same as telling them to use a firewall or ditch the landlines
  940. # [19:27] <WebDragon> yeah only it's our client's client
  941. # [19:27] <csmrfx> Well as a developer you'd still have the responsibility
  942. # [19:28] <csmrfx> 8P
  943. # [19:28] <paul_irish> hey WebDragon
  944. # [19:28] <WebDragon> site looked awful on the client's IE7 browsers when OUR client showed THEIR website to THEIR client
  945. # [19:28] <Moo-_^> WebDragon: just force install google chrome frame plug-in on them
  946. # [19:28] <WebDragon> ugh
  947. # [19:28] <WebDragon> Moo-_^: boy it's sure fucking tempting, believe me
  948. # [19:28] <WebDragon> heya paul_irish :D long time no speak
  949. # [19:28] <Moo-_^> no, it's a solution
  950. # [19:28] <WebDragon> how goes the html5 boilerplate
  951. # [19:28] <paul_irish> forreal :)
  952. # [19:28] <paul_irish> good. we launched v3 on monday
  953. # [19:28] <WebDragon> oh yeah? what's new ?
  954. # [19:29] <WebDragon> I should just go read it on the site, shouldn't I ? :)
  955. # [19:29] <paul_irish> hehe yeah
  956. # [19:29] <WebDragon> no sense making you retype it all
  957. # [19:29] <paul_irish> its polish and firming up best practices
  958. # [19:29] <paul_irish> and its smaller
  959. # [19:29] <WebDragon> nice
  960. # [19:29] <paul_irish> no huge new features
  961. # [19:29] <csmrfx> I always complain about the boilerplate but it is really a timesavr
  962. # [19:29] <paul_irish> hahah csmrfx :)
  963. # [19:29] <WebDragon> wish I coulda moved this site out of XHTML
  964. # [19:30] <WebDragon> pfffffffffffffffffffffffff *sigh*
  965. # [19:30] <paul_irish> WebDragon: change the doctype. BOOM done.
  966. # [19:30] <WebDragon> paul_irish: not sure whether that would fix my IE7 problems or just create more =)
  967. # [19:30] <csmrfx> xhtml... *sigh*
  968. # [19:30] <paul_irish> it'd create 0 more and fix 0 problems, likely
  969. # [19:30] <WebDragon> yeah Magento's still emitting xhtml
  970. # [19:30] <paul_irish> gross.
  971. # [19:31] <WebDragon> tell me about it
  972. # [19:31] <csmrfx> xml + xslt = xhtml?
  973. # [19:31] <WebDragon> rofl
  974. # [19:31] * Parts: JakeA (~Adium@adsl-070-148-226-007.sip.asm.bellsouth.net)
  975. # [19:31] <WebDragon> I haven't even begun to be able to think in HTML5 with all the new tags for structure yet
  976. # [19:32] <WebDragon> I keep trying to push for it but we're doing more fixup/changes than new sites lately
  977. # [19:32] <ryan_tait> hey paul did the css get sassified in 3.0?
  978. # [19:32] * Nathandim is now known as Nathan|dnd
  979. # [19:32] <paul_irish> nope
  980. # [19:32] <WebDragon> no chance to practice much
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  985. # [19:35] <csmrfx> Is some of the new html5 tags 'naturally' inline-block?
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  987. # [19:38] <csmrfx> WebDragon: btw, I'm actually really planning on making a xml*xslt -micro cms, again. but no, no xhtml.
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  990. # [19:39] <WebDragon> hehehe
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  1001. # [19:50] <devmikey> Are you suppsed to wrap label around the input or put it before the input?
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  1006. # [19:53] <csmrfx> no
  1007. # [19:53] <johnkpaul> devmikey: I am pretty sure that either is acceptable
  1008. # [19:53] <csmrfx> you're only supposed to associate it with input immsc
  1009. # [19:54] <johnkpaul> immsc?
  1010. # [19:54] <johnkpaul> http://dev.w3.org/html5/markup/label.html
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  1012. # [19:54] <johnkpaul> it may contain an input
  1013. # [19:54] <csmrfx> if my memory serves me correctly...
  1014. # [19:54] <johnkpaul> oh, :) neve rheard that before
  1015. # [19:55] <johnkpaul> I don't know if there's some best practice, and I agree, I always associate it with an input
  1016. # [19:55] <WebDragon> IIRC is the usual usage
  1017. # [19:55] <johnkpaul> but I'm pretty sure that a label without an input inside will still validate
  1018. # [19:55] <WebDragon> yes it will
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  1020. # [19:55] <WebDragon> you can wrap it or not, but if you don't then you must tie them together specifically
  1021. # [19:55] <csmrfx> http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG7lfSFDRPSBoAqG5XNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE1aGdzZnFyBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA1ZJUDEyMl8yNTk-/SIG=12cbrmq18/EXP=1328842066/**http%3a//idioms.thefreedictionary.com/if%2bmemory%2bserves
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  1026. # [19:57] <csmrfx> Perhaps http://reference.sitepoint.com/html/label
  1027. # [19:58] <csmrfx> you could take the belt-and-braces approach and do both: wrap the label around the form control and link it using the for attribute
  1028. # [19:59] <csmrfx> The for attribute (explicit association) is more widely supported than the approach that involves simply wrapping the label around the control, and is the preferred method.
  1029. # [19:59] <marten> Glazou: "Mobile web devs r destroy the internetz" - Web devs "
  1030. # [19:59] * Joins: rarar3 (~subway@ridezap.com)
  1031. # [19:59] <marten> Glazou: "Mobile web devs r destroy the internetz" - Web devs "WE MUST FIX ALL THE INTERNETZ"
  1032. # [19:59] <csmrfx> man I'd hate to be immobile and not be able to trash the snow and sand on my mtb
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  1034. # [20:00] <csmrfx> hmmm http://www.sitepoint.com/microsoft-html5-web-camp-videos-now-online/
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  1039. # [20:04] <johnkpaul> csmrfx: oh, I wasn't arguing about immsc, I just had no idea :)
  1040. # [20:04] <johnkpaul> but I definitely learned that and that the for attribute is the prefered method
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  1043. # [20:08] <csmrfx> johnkpaul: idioms are fun, even if my acronym was missing a m ;)
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  1047. # [20:10] <devmikey> Is either acceptable in 4.01 strict?
  1048. # [20:10] <devmikey> I'd let it break the tie
  1049. # [20:11] <JonathanNeal> for attribute for what?
  1050. # [20:11] <csmrfx> devmikey: I would answer but yesterday you felt I was useless - so I wont.
  1051. # [20:12] <JonathanNeal> devmikey: you want to know whether you should use a "for" attribute with an element?
  1052. # [20:12] <devmikey> JonathanNeal: with the label element
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  1055. # [20:13] <devmikey> csmrfx: You've been useless today too
  1056. # [20:13] <JonathanNeal> <label for="foo"><input id="foo">, right?
  1057. # [20:13] <JonathanNeal> be nice everyone
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  1060. # [20:13] <WebDragon> why does IE's Developer Tools _insist_ on mixing in the print.css styles and showing them as if they were overriding the existing screen styles
  1061. # [20:13] <devmikey> JonathanNeal: Yeah but is it, <label for="foo"><input id="foo"></label> or <label for="foo"></label><input id="foo">
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  1063. # [20:14] <WebDragon> even though they aren't
  1064. # [20:14] <WebDragon> it still shows the screenstyles as if they were crossed-out and overridden by the print junj
  1065. # [20:14] <WebDragon> junk
  1066. # [20:14] <JonathanNeal> devmikey: there is great ambiguity in the spec.
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  1068. # [20:14] <WebDragon> where's my firebuglite
  1069. # [20:14] <devmikey> I think I'd prefer to both wrap and say for
  1070. # [20:15] <JonathanNeal> devmikey: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/forms.html#the-label-element
  1071. # [20:15] <JonathanNeal> in there first example they also wrap the <input> element.
  1072. # [20:15] <JonathanNeal> *their
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  1074. # [20:16] <JonathanNeal> so devmikey, if you follow their pattern, label does not need a "for" attribute if it wraps the input.
  1075. # [20:16] * Parts: melst (~Melli@pop1-63.catv.wtnet.de)
  1076. # [20:16] <JonathanNeal> but, devmikey, if the label will be aside the input, you would use the for attribute.
  1077. # [20:16] <JonathanNeal> The choice ... is yours :)
  1078. # [20:16] <devmikey> JonathanNeal: Thank you
  1079. # [20:16] <csmrfx> he will probably libel the label for being useless
  1080. # [20:17] <devmikey> JonathanNeal: You are quite useful :D
  1081. # [20:18] <JonathanNeal> thank you, also, be excellent to each other.
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  1085. # [20:20] <JonathanNeal> WebDragon: yea firebug lite can be mighty helpful in those situations.
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  1088. # [20:21] <WebDragon> I gotta run Developer Tools in IE7 Standards mode and then open firebug lite to get the highlight-element-on-hover-in-HTML business
  1089. # [20:21] <taylorRichie> Hello Experts…
  1090. # [20:21] <taylorRichie> Quick question regarding image replacement in Boilerplate.
  1091. # [20:21] <taylorRichie> I've got an <li class="ir"> that has a sub <ul> within it. By using the "ir" class It's making my sub <ul> hidden (since ir has overflow:hidden) What is the recommended method for having an image replacement for the Main nav, but allowing subnavs to be visible??
  1092. # [20:21] * Parts: JakeA (~Adium@adsl-070-148-226-007.sip.asm.bellsouth.net)
  1093. # [20:21] <WebDragon> NOW I can see where IE thinks it's supposed to be showing the subnav elements
  1094. # [20:21] <JonathanNeal> I've noticed that firebug lite has issues when I include the "X-UA-Compatible" meta tag though.
  1095. # [20:21] * WebDragon gives IE a swift kick in the stnadards
  1096. # [20:22] <WebDragon> ;)
  1097. # [20:22] <JonathanNeal> taylorRichie: you're using h5bp?
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  1099. # [20:22] <taylorRichie> Yes sir
  1100. # [20:22] <JonathanNeal> awesome, let me take a look at that .ir class real quick.
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  1102. # [20:24] <JonathanNeal> taylorRichie: how would you feel about putting an element within your <li> with the .ir class?
  1103. # [20:24] <JonathanNeal> Do you have an example on jsfiddle or somewhere I could take a look?
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  1105. # [20:25] <taylorRichie> One second...
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  1107. # [20:26] <taylorRichie> Shoot I've gotta run to a meeting real quick… I'll be back in just a few. At which time I'll post the sample :D Sorry Sorry.
  1108. # [20:26] <JonathanNeal> It's okay, have a good, easy meeting.
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  1113. # [20:29] <csmrfx> was just thinking maybe #html5 should adopt same policy as #javascript with code-related questions. Ie. provide paste, ask a clear cut q
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  1118. # [20:31] <JonathanNeal> is there a bot in here that could pleasantly guide people through that process? then the guideline would be easier to share. not that a policy could be truly set.
  1119. # [20:32] <devmikey> I dont think it's a huge problem needing to be dealt with
  1120. # [20:32] <csmrfx> compared to antisocial lible, no.
  1121. # [20:32] <csmrfx> *libel
  1122. # [20:32] <csmrfx> but bot can be provided
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  1124. # [20:32] <csmrfx> usually it is very quiet here
  1125. # [20:33] <tw2113> wow old jquery performance presentation by paul_irish is old
  1126. # [20:33] * Quits: niloy (~niloy@42.105.82.153) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  1127. # [20:33] <tw2113> He was still at Molecular, Inc at the time
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  1129. # [20:35] <tw2113> jquery was at 1.4.2
  1130. # [20:36] <csmrfx> 5 years ago, not that old
  1131. # [20:36] <JonathanNeal> csmrfx: it is interesting people come in here asking for h5bp support
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  1135. # [20:37] <csmrfx> heh, the whole name-game for html5 is a bit of a mess
  1136. # [20:40] <csmrfx> What kind of bot would be fun for html5?
  1137. # [20:40] <ryan_tait> a caniuse bot woeuld be cool
  1138. # [20:40] <devmikey> one that mutes you
  1139. # [20:41] <csmrfx> mute, I like that.
  1140. # [20:41] <ryan_tait> or like an html5please bot
  1141. # [20:41] <csmrfx> ryan_tait: I like caniuse
  1142. # [20:41] <csmrfx> could have it !caniuse whatever
  1143. # [20:41] <ryan_tait> yup :D
  1144. # [20:41] <csmrfx> -> title <link>
  1145. # [20:42] <csmrfx> I'm thinkin having a js + dom thats reinstantiated each call would be cool
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  1147. # [20:45] <JonathanNeal> i feel like chiming in about my new caniuse api
  1148. # [20:45] <JonathanNeal> http://sandbox.thewikies.com/caniuse/
  1149. # [20:45] * Quits: mattkelly (mattkelly@gateway/facebook.com/session) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  1150. # [20:45] <ryan_tait> jonathanneal: thats what made me think caniuse.. seeing your links past few weeks
  1151. # [20:46] <ryan_tait> :)
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  1154. # [20:48] <tw2113> a bot that says the semantics in the new tags don't matter all that much, yet
  1155. # [20:48] <JonathanNeal> having a bot for this channel wouldn't be a bad idea.
  1156. # [20:49] <JonathanNeal> especially for referencing
  1157. # [20:49] <tw2113> ?g html5 doctors
  1158. # [20:49] <bot-t> tw2113, HTML5 Doctor, helping you implement HTML5 today - http://html5doctor.com/
  1159. # [20:50] <JonathanNeal> html6, no doctype, utf-8 default, no head or body
  1160. # [20:50] <csmrfx> ?g caniuse.com/#canvas
  1161. # [20:50] <bot-t> csmrfx, When can I use... Support tables for HTML5, CSS3, etc - http://caniuse.com/#canvas
  1162. # [20:51] <csmrfx> so now all it needs is a shorthad for that
  1163. # [20:51] <JonathanNeal> ?caniuse canvas
  1164. # [20:51] <csmrfx> bot-t help
  1165. # [20:51] <bot-t> JonathanNeal, Tutorials:Rounded Corners - Adding rounded corners to an element, using no extra markup. http://docs.jquery.com/Tutorials:Rounded_Corners
  1166. # [20:51] <csmrfx> ?help
  1167. # [20:51] <bot-t> Get FREE A++ HELP - http://workaround.org/getting-help-on-irc
  1168. # [20:51] <JonathanNeal> csmrfx: you forgot sudo
  1169. # [20:52] <csmrfx> sudo caniuse canvas
  1170. # [20:52] <csmrfx> hm, that always works on my gf
  1171. # [20:54] <csmrfx> ok, I go play with rhinos now
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  1208. # [21:46] <Hypah> i visited a page with an <audio> tag, closed it, and 10 minutes later the sound is still looping.
  1209. # [21:47] <insin> that's what I call value-for-money
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  1211. # [21:48] <csmrfx> at least it didn't log into irc and spam viagra like some pages do
  1212. # [21:48] <Hypah> what?
  1213. # [21:49] <csmrfx> you can easily do that by submitting fake form data to irc server
  1214. # [21:49] <csmrfx> nasty
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  1224. # [22:01] <Moo-_^> csmrfx: as far as I know irc servers do not process HTTP connections, so you might want to clarify your theory :)
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  1228. # [22:04] <csmrfx> Moo-_^: see defcon 18 how I met your girlfriend for one example
  1229. # [22:04] <csmrfx> youtube or somewhere
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  1237. # [22:06] <Moo-_^> csmrfx: groovy
  1238. # [22:07] <jarek> is it possible to position element relatively to absolutely positioned div?
  1239. # [22:07] <jarek> (without introducing more divs)
  1240. # [22:08] <csmrfx> jarek you mean element that is not descendanto of the absopos div?
  1241. # [22:08] <csmrfx> or whats the problem
  1242. # [22:09] <jarek> csmrfx: I would like to position child element relatively to parent element that has 'position: absolute'
  1243. # [22:09] * Quits: Jackneill (~Jackneill@unaffiliated/jackneill) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
  1244. # [22:09] <csmrfx> and what is the problem?
  1245. # [22:09] <csmrfx> perhaps do a jsfiddle.net example of your situation
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  1248. # [22:15] <insin> relative to which bit of the parent? absolute makes the parent a containing block so you should be able to use absolute on the child to get what you want
  1249. # [22:15] <Pomax> jarek, how is that not possible exactly the way you just said?
  1250. # [22:15] <Pomax> http://jsfiddle.net/xHgqs/
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  1253. # [22:16] <jarek> how do you save code on jsFiddle?
  1254. # [22:16] <csmrfx> update
  1255. # [22:16] <Pomax> http://pastebin.mozilla.org/1481211
  1256. # [22:16] <jarek> I have to login?
  1257. # [22:16] <csmrfx> no
  1258. # [22:16] <Pomax> jsfiddle looks broken... O-o
  1259. # [22:16] <csmrfx> (up middle)
  1260. # [22:17] <tw2113> this prefix issue is kind of messed up
  1261. # [22:17] <Moo-_^> csmrfx: ah
  1262. # [22:17] <jarek> uhm... so if parent has "position: absolute" then child with "position: relative" will be positioned relatively to parent?
  1263. # [22:17] <csmrfx> Moo-_^: grok it?
  1264. # [22:17] <Moo-_^> I believe IRC servers have been patched against such attactks by now
  1265. # [22:17] <jarek> I'm doing CSS for over 3 years and I haven't noticed that...
  1266. # [22:18] <Pomax> position relative is defined exactly as relative to parent.
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  1269. # [22:18] * jarek checks CSS spec
  1270. # [22:18] <jarek> Pomax: no... the definition is a bit more messed up I think...
  1271. # [22:20] <Pomax> http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/visuren.html#relative-positioning
  1272. # [22:20] <Pomax> it basically goes "where would this box normally be? alright, shift it from there"
  1273. # [22:20] <Pomax> and since a div in a div is at 0,0 relative to its parent, t'works
  1274. # [22:21] <Pomax> regardless of how that parent is itself positioned
  1275. # [22:22] <Moo-_^> csmrfx: also port overflow attack has been fixed long time ago
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  1281. # [22:24] <csmrfx> Moo-_^: you mean, some developers included patches that may have been installed in some of the running instances
  1282. # [22:25] <Moo-_^> csmrfx: no, I mean all known browsers have been patched
  1283. # [22:25] <Moo-_^> and I think it was just webkit which was dummy
  1284. # [22:25] <jarek> Pomax: thanks, makes sense now
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  1287. # [22:25] <csmrfx> Moo-_^: ok that one, surely yes
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  1290. # [22:26] <Moo-_^> but nice presentation
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  1292. # [22:26] <csmrfx> There are some interesting defcon prez's on youtube
  1293. # [22:26] <csmrfx> esp. gives one some secu perspective
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  1299. # [22:29] <csmrfx> Massive. Updated through 7 major versions of FF.
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  1301. # [22:32] <JonathanNeal> csmrfx: you did?
  1302. # [22:32] <JonathanNeal> csmrfx: you updated from Firefox 3 to Firefox 10?
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  1306. # [22:32] <csmrfx> JonathanNeal: yes, it's nice now
  1307. # [22:32] <JonathanNeal> cool.
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  1310. # [22:36] <csmrfx> I swear my canvas tests run 3x the speed at least http://koti.kapsi.fi/csmr/cubomorpher.html
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  1313. # [22:41] <JonathanNeal> that sounds about right, you upgraded 7 versions
  1314. # [22:41] <JonathanNeal> imagine updating from ie3 to ie10
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  1317. # [22:42] <csmrfx> haha
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  1319. # [22:46] <csmrfx> well it was defo worth it, cant get this to stutter even with +10k points http://koti.kapsi.fi/csmr/fermats-spiral.html?pars=22777,6pt,1,t,t,77,177,f,f,f
  1320. # [22:47] <Jesterous> Lol, what a brilliant first comment to see on opening irc... :P
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  1322. # [22:51] <Moo-_^> csmrfx: btw you might want to join #javascript.fi @ ircnet :)
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  1324. # [22:52] <csmrfx> Moo-_^: i like trolling freenode, even have donated. Is there a particular reason? 8)
  1325. # [22:53] <Moo-_^> the trolls must be fed
  1326. # [22:53] <WebDragon> paul_irish: still around?
  1327. # [22:53] <marten> Has anyone of you ever seen a succesful implementation of a sidebar in a responsive webdesign? (One that doesnt get demoted to 'underbar' on small screens)
  1328. # [22:54] <csmrfx> Moo-_^: well might pop by there one of these days, thanks for the pointer
  1329. # [22:55] <Moo-_^> np
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  1341. # [23:06] <WebDragon> I notice html5bp doesn't use <script type="text/javascript" src=""> just <script src="">
  1342. # [23:07] * monteslu_ is now known as monteslu
  1343. # [23:07] <WebDragon> presumably this is something new to html5 ?
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  1345. # [23:08] <marten> WebDragon: more webbrowsers automatically assume you use javascript if you leave it out
  1346. # [23:08] <WebDragon> how does that affect mobile devices ?
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  1348. # [23:08] <WebDragon> similarly?
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  1350. # [23:10] <marten> It will propably still work if you leave out the mimetype
  1351. # [23:11] <WebDragon> crazy
  1352. # [23:11] <marten> I'm pretty sure the H5BP guys test such things before they put it in their project
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  1362. # [23:19] <csmrfx> That is interesting
  1363. # [23:19] <WebDragon> so am I, I'm just curious about the details :)
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  1365. # [23:19] <csmrfx> I'd like to hear the reasoning behind not using type="text/javascript"
  1366. # [23:20] <Jesterous> WebDragon: the type attribute isn't required in HTML5
  1367. # [23:20] <WebDragon> me too
  1368. # [23:20] <WebDragon> seriously.. wild
  1369. # [23:20] <WebDragon> somehow I hadn't heard/read that yet
  1370. # [23:20] <Jesterous> I'm trying to find it in the spec...
  1371. # [23:23] <WesleyL> http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#attr-script-type
  1372. # [23:23] <csmrfx> The type attribute on script and style is no longer required if the scripting language is ECMAScript and the styling language is CSS respectively.
  1373. # [23:24] <csmrfx> http://dev.w3.org/html5/html4-differences/#changed-attributes
  1374. # [23:24] <csmrfx> So, that is correct.
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  1378. # [23:25] <Jesterous> Darn, beaten! :P
  1379. # [23:25] <csmrfx> Hehee, html5 gives something new to learn
  1380. # [23:25] <jarek> how do I create SVG element in HTML5?
  1381. # [23:25] <Jesterous> I'm rubbish at finding things in the spec.
  1382. # [23:25] <jarek> in XHTML I would use document.createElementNS
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  1384. # [23:25] <jarek> but there are no namespaces in HTML5
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  1386. # [23:26] <csmrfx> jarek: createElement
  1387. # [23:26] <jarek> csmrfx: document.createElement('path') create element of type HTMLUnknownElement
  1388. # [23:26] <jarek> s/create/creates
  1389. # [23:27] <csmrfx> ahm, yes
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  1391. # [23:28] <jarek> and to level SVG element does not have createElement() method
  1392. # [23:28] <jarek> s/to/top
  1393. # [23:28] <jarek> sorry for typos
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  1395. # [23:28] <csmrfx> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8173217/createelement-vs-createelementns
  1396. # [23:29] <jarek> btw, why there is document.createElementNS even though I'm using HTML document?
  1397. # [23:30] <csmrfx> also http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6698480/how-to-dynamically-add-an-element-to-html5-svg
  1398. # [23:31] <jarek> csmrfx: I used to be using createElementNS before, but it doesn't make sense in HTML
  1399. # [23:31] <csmrfx> I dont know, but I guess because tou dont have createElement :p
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  1402. # [23:32] <csmrfx> anyway, createElementNS is what those two posts recommend
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  1404. # [23:33] <csmrfx> also see http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6698480/how-to-dynamically-add-an-element-to-html5-svg
  1405. # [23:33] <csmrfx> so, might be you could just inject "<svg><whatever.../></svg>" and the browser takes care of the rest
  1406. # [23:34] <csmrfx> then again, might be some future browser might not like that
  1407. # [23:34] <jarek> ok, so SVG inside HTML5 is sill XML?
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  1410. # [23:37] <csmrfx> All these specs and standards are always fine and dandy to read...
  1411. # [23:37] <csmrfx> ...until you realize the browsers give fek all about xml and well formedness and namespaces, mostly
  1412. # [23:37] <csmrfx> so just do what works and dont worry about namespaces or xml too much
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  1418. # [23:45] <jarek> I got response from <Hixie> on #whatwg that this is how stuff should work :/
  1419. # [23:45] <jarek> I think I'm going back to XHTML
  1420. # [23:45] * Quits: dgathright (~dgathrigh@nat/yahoo/x-fuqknbyjrypfbljl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  1421. # [23:45] <JonathanNeal> jarek: hahaha
  1422. # [23:46] * cloudpopup is now known as sqeakytoy
  1423. # [23:46] * sqeakytoy is now known as squeakytoy
  1424. # [23:46] * Joins: tw2113 (~tw2113@host-216-60-230-24.midco.net)
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  1428. # [23:50] <paul_irish> csmrfx: WebDragon. it works everywhere. no type attr required
  1429. # [23:51] <csmrfx> jarek: whats "this" again?
  1430. # [23:51] * Quits: tobyx (~tobyx@fsf/member/tobyx) (Quit: Leaving...)
  1431. # [23:51] <jarek> csmrfx: by "this" I mean the method you have described
  1432. # [23:52] * Joins: erichynds (~ehynds@pool-71-184-234-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
  1433. # [23:52] <jarek> document.createElementNS('http://www.w3.org/2000/svg', 'path')
  1434. # [23:52] <jarek> I wonder if I have use setAttributeNS as well...
  1435. # [23:52] <jarek> s/use/to use
  1436. # [23:53] * Quits: skyler_brungardt (~skyler@64.191.211.43) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  1437. # [23:53] <csmrfx> yeaa
  1438. # [23:53] * Quits: marten (~marten@h254064.upc-h.chello.nl) (Quit: Lost terminal)
  1439. # [23:53] <csmrfx> svgns
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  1441. # [23:55] * Quits: BlazeCoder (~CodeBlaze@cpc3-gors2-2-0-cust174.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com)
  1442. # [23:57] <jarek> setAttribute() seems to be working on Chrome
  1443. # [23:57] * Joins: BlazeCoder (~CodeBlaze@cpc3-gors2-2-0-cust174.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com)
  1444. # [23:58] <jarek> at least on path elements
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  1446. # [23:59] * Quits: Eightamr0ck (~Eightamr0@h-64-236-128-62.nat.aol.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  1447. # [23:59] * Quits: snearch (~snearch@e178057096.adsl.alicedsl.de) (Quit: Verlassend)
  1448. # Session Close: Fri Feb 10 00:00:00 2012

The end :)