/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2012-02-27 / end

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# Session Start: Mon Feb 27 00:00:01 2012
# Session Ident: #html5
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# [00:00] <divya> drublic: cant use @extend within mq
# [00:00] <divya> afaik
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# [00:00] <divya> so changing them to text-align center so it overrides correctly
# [00:01] <drublic> divya: ah, right! that makes total sense…
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# [00:13] <drublic> divya: browsertests: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8455906/browsertests-h5p-api.md
# [00:13] * robrt is now known as robglas
# [00:14] <divya> the background black is deliberate drublic i am surprised it doesnt show elsewhere
# [00:14] <divya> i guess its a webkit bug
# [00:14] <drublic> for the things I wrote down for opera: which behavior is the …
# [00:14] <drublic> okay
# [00:15] <divya> IE9 nbg without gradient does it at least render the fallback bg?
# [00:15] <divya> thats enough
# [00:15] <drublic> is the opera behavior the desired one?
# [00:15] <drublic> divya: the background in ie is blue-ish
# [00:16] <divya> drublic: hmm maybe could tweak the bg color to match the gradient more closely.
# [00:16] <drublic> here is a screenshot http://d.pr/xdSs
# [00:16] <divya> oh this looks pretty fine drublic
# [00:16] <divya> i am happy as it is
# [00:16] <divya> no need gradients
# [00:16] <divya> no plans to make them pixel perfect
# [00:16] <drublic> divya: ok cool!
# [00:17] <divya> i think if you can also change the leaves to be using the whats it called unicode hex value
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# [00:17] <drublic> for the other two opera things: leave theme as they are?
# [00:17] <divya> well the focus color is the desired value
# [00:17] <drublic> okay and the font-size and -style?
# [00:17] <divya> I only test in opera drublic s I actually dont know how it looks like in chrome :)
# [00:17] <divya> so yeah opera's behavior is desired
# [00:18] <drublic> divya: I could have known that… I'll tweak the others a little bit :)
# [00:18] <divya> hehe okay but most seem minor
# [00:19] <divya> i wouldnt spend too much time on them.
# [00:19] <divya> if you have iE8 i would just want to verify nothing major breaks
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# [00:21] <drublic> divya: I see the freezing in IE9 as a major thing, but could not figure why. I've got IE8 emulator in IE9.
# [00:21] <divya> drublic: yeah i am not sure what to do w.r.t that :/
# [00:21] <divya> but it ultimately renders?
# [00:22] <divya> i think it is just not doing the xml request asyc?
# [00:22] <divya> dunno why it would NOT do that.
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# [00:23] <drublic> divya: I'll fix the other things first, then look into IE9
# [00:23] <divya> k can do.
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# [00:42] * paul_irish is back
# [00:42] <paul_irish> ?time berlin
# [00:43] <bot-t> paul_irish, Berlin, Berlin - Weather: Clear, -3°C / 27°F
# [00:43] <paul_irish> ?wa time berlin
# [00:43] <bot-t> paul_irish, WolframAlpha - Currently Disabled
# [00:43] <paul_irish> jerks
# [00:43] <drublic> paul_irish: it's 00:36
# [00:44] <paul_irish> cool cool
# [00:44] <drublic> nah, to cool! have to get up at 7am. :/
# [00:45] <drublic> got a workshop organized by SmashingMag 2morrow \o/ (#smmeetup stuff)
# [00:45] <paul_irish> divya: you dont see any reason why the `supported` property in the JSON payload would ever disappear do you?
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# [00:45] <drublic> divya: ie8 is pretty broken
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# [00:46] <tw2113> i thought that was obvious :D
# [00:47] <divya> paul_irish: no
# [00:47] <divya> drublic: ha it uses object.keys >_>
# [00:47] <divya> thats the main problem
# [00:47] <paul_irish> divya: turns out noagent kills that prop
# [00:47] <paul_irish> {}.keys is ez to polyfill if we want
# [00:48] <drublic> divya: styles are missing… ::before and ::after are not working in IE8
# [00:48] <divya> o k
# [00:48] <divya> drublic: yeah who cares.
# [00:48] <divya> it needs to be readable
# [00:48] <divya> as i said not pixel perfect
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# [00:48] <drublic> i know, i know… mom
# [00:49] <divya> just need the url/widget to render okay not to have preview
# [00:49] <tw2113> would you all suggest using a php file for jsonp requests, for use with $.getAJAX() ?
# [00:49] <paul_irish> tw2113: i dont think you're askin what you mean to
# [00:49] <drublic> divya: for example: http://d.pr/2rSc
# [00:50] <tw2113> i'll expand then
# [00:50] <tw2113> i am working on a jquery plugin for pulling in tweets and displaying
# [00:50] <divya> man eot sucks
# [00:50] <paul_irish> what about it
# [00:50] <tw2113> for security sake, would it be best to pull in the jsonp in a php file and return the values, or just do it straight out
# [00:51] <divya> drublic: it might just need an inline-block to be converted to inline?
# [00:51] <divya> ytf is it not using b as block
# [00:51] <tw2113> trying to protect from injection
# [00:51] <divya> blehh
# [00:51] <divya> drublic: i am okay with how it looks as long as the api area looks best
# [00:52] <divya> dont care about the rest
# [00:52] <drublic> divya: it already is
# [00:52] <divya> oh k
# [00:53] <paul_irish> divya: do you see any point in &noagents ?
# [00:53] <paul_irish> its not documented
# [00:53] <drublic> divya: api has js-error: trim is not supported in script.js line 87
# [00:53] <paul_irish> im removing it
# [00:53] <divya> paul_irish: what?
# [00:53] <paul_irish> drublic: add a ''.trim polyfill!
# [00:53] <divya> what you removing?
# [00:53] <paul_irish> we have &noagent and &noagents
# [00:53] <divya> we are using it in the preview?
# [00:53] <divya> oh
# [00:54] <divya> yeah noagents mean dont send any info about agents
# [00:54] <divya> it is used in &supported i think?
# [00:54] <divya> to only return if something is supported or not
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# [00:54] <divya> without info on what all agents support it.
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# [00:54] <drublic> paul_irish: will do
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# [01:15] <tbranyen> chee: wassap
# [01:16] <drublic> divya: so, with PR #40 IE8 API is working. not looking good though. I have to go to bed now. I'll try to look into IE8 styling 2morrow or the day after, or someone else will do it :)
# [01:17] <divya> thnx thnx drublic
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# [01:17] <divya> more than sufficient
# [01:18] <drublic> divya: :) thanks. nice working with you! let me know if there's anything else to do for "after launch"
# [01:18] <divya> definitely drublic! thanks a lot for what you have done.
# [01:19] <chee> tbranyen: what's happening !
# [01:19] <paul_irish> no favicon
# [01:19] <paul_irish> i suppose that can wait :p
# [01:19] <divya> why i thought it should use html5please's
# [01:19] <drublic> paul_irish: i got a psd-template for that :P
# [01:19] <tbranyen> chee: nothing much, just wanted to you let you now i'm gonna start working on the backbone boilerplate wiki. any interest in helping out?
# [01:19] <drublic> what ever. thanks, and gn8
# [01:19] <divya> gnite drublic
# [01:19] <paul_irish> cool
# [01:19] <paul_irish> ninight
# [01:20] <divya> paul_irish: i dont think we need shims for these things because i am using jquery anyway
# [01:20] <paul_irish> wha
# [01:20] <divya> array.map and trim etc i am pretty sure jquery provides
# [01:21] <divya> (not in exact form but similarish)
# [01:21] <paul_irish> similarish.
# [01:21] <paul_irish> but they're already done and compelte with polyfills
# [01:21] <paul_irish> and its a standard API
# [01:21] <divya> eh?
# [01:21] <paul_irish> rather than further entrenching the jq dependency
# [01:22] <divya> everything is jquery dependent in this script
# [01:22] <divya> at this moment
# [01:22] <paul_irish> w/e
# [01:22] <divya> i dont see any reason why we shouldnt take advantage of what jq provides
# [01:22] <divya> instead of adding more code
# [01:22] <chee> tbranyen: oh waw ! yes!
# [01:22] <paul_irish> im not scared of bytes
# [01:22] <paul_irish> I AINT SCARED OF NO GHOSTS
# [01:22] <divya> i dont like creating a mess
# [01:23] <paul_irish> the API to use $.trim( ..... ) vs .....trim() makes me prefer the polyfill solution
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# [01:25] <paul_irish> divya: but i will have limited time available for maintenance
# [01:25] <paul_irish> so given that, please optimize it for your happiness
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# [01:28] <paul_irish> hi JonathanNeal
# [01:29] <JonathanNeal> Hi paul_irish!
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# [01:29] <divya> paul_irish: the only thing you have to maintain would be the modernizr plugin
# [01:29] <divya> which i am not touching
# [01:29] <JonathanNeal> Did you see my ping in diveinto?
# [01:30] <paul_irish> divya: yup sounds good
# [01:30] <paul_irish> divya: i put it into the repo and am gonna ajax it into the page for niceness.
# [01:31] <paul_irish> JonathanNeal: not yet.
# [01:33] <JonathanNeal> It was basically requesting your opinion and consideration to move diveintohtml5 to h5bp and give people access to that site.
# [01:33] <JonathanNeal> At least I would set up a daily cron to update.
# [01:33] <paul_irish> i <3 gh orgs so i like that idea.
# [01:33] <paul_irish> but no reason diveintomark shouldnt be a gh group
# [01:33] <paul_irish> between the two i am ambivalent
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# [01:34] <divya> this is all the change that was necessary https://github.com/h5bp/html5please-api/commit/219287eac95240c2f442ac40cfeb88eacea3ea86
# [01:34] <socialhapy> ★ Commit on html5please-api by nimbupani (2m, 32s ago): avoiding shims by using jQuery for trims and object iteration
# [01:34] <divya> instead of several lines of random code just for 2 lines of changes.
# [01:37] <JonathanNeal> Yea if kennethreitz makes us collabs then that's fine too.
# [01:38] <JonathanNeal> I just think these projects do stronger with a team. I also want my diveinto urls to be up to date and continually relevant.
# [01:38] <paul_irish> JonathanNeal: you up to date on masataka's PRs?
# [01:38] <JonathanNeal> Again, easier done by a team and even the community when attached to a popular team.
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# [01:41] <paul_irish> just curious :)
# [01:41] <JonathanNeal> Yes
# [01:41] <JonathanNeal> :)
# [01:44] <JonathanNeal> He only had one pending right paul_irish?
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# [01:56] <paul_irish> divya: currently...
# [01:56] <paul_irish> Modernizr.browserPrompt({features: "webgl", options:"texticon&0"}
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# [01:56] <paul_irish> know where that &0 is coming from?
# [01:57] <divya> yeah its supposed to just join and send.
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# [01:58] <divya> from the formattedOptioned page
# [01:58] <divya> unsure why it adds a 0
# [01:58] <paul_irish> k
# [01:58] <paul_irish> ill track it down
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# [02:00] <aperture> chee: found you!
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# [02:01] <paul_irish> the noagent seems to be failing now. sample preview for instance.. :/
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# [02:08] <divya> naw i think the js is borked?
# [02:09] <divya> pushed fix
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# [02:14] <paul_irish> we appear to be `cache` for two purposes, though i suppose that is okay..
# [02:14] <divya> ?
# [02:15] <divya> the primary purpose was to stop making repeated requests to api for same options
# [02:15] <paul_irish> its also used in the smooth scrolling
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# [02:18] <divya> oh oops we shouldn't do that then.
# [02:18] <divya> amazing it works still
# [02:21] <paul_irish> divya: you seeing the sample view failing as the json isnt returning anything?
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# [02:22] <divya> i pushed a commit
# [02:22] <divya> there was like a syntax error
# [02:22] <divya> so i fixed that.
# [02:22] <paul_irish> ok
# [02:22] <divya> but other than that no i am not seeing anything fail.
# [02:22] <divya> if you are testing for features that have no support
# [02:22] <divya> e.g. css-grids
# [02:22] <divya> then you wont see anything
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# [02:29] <divya> paul_irish: you still got issues? http://h5bp.github.com/html5please-api/ ?
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# [02:29] <divya> it wfm
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# [02:30] <paul_irish> divya: you should be testing on api.h5p.com
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# [02:30] <divya> sure but that has the latest update hot off the commit
# [02:31] <divya> api.h5p.com has the older ones in anycase api retrieved is from api.h5p.com
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# [02:41] <paul_irish> divya:
# [02:41] <paul_irish> so i keep testing with webgl and i have weird responses
# [02:42] <paul_irish> compare
# [02:42] <paul_irish> http://api.html5please.com/video.html?callback=Modernizr.html5please.cb&icon&noagent
# [02:42] <paul_irish> http://api.html5please.com/webgl.html?callback=Modernizr.html5please.cb&icon&noagent
# [02:42] <divya> paul_irish: http://api.html5please.com/webgl.json?callback=Modernizr.html5please.cb&icon&noagent&readable
# [02:43] <paul_irish> {"supported":"unknown"}
# [02:43] <divya> http://caniuse.com/webgl
# [02:43] <divya> coz it is dependent on drivers etc
# [02:43] <divya> so caniuse classifies as partial
# [02:43] <paul_irish> ughhh
# [02:43] <divya> which we veto afaict
# [02:43] <paul_irish> yeah
# [02:43] <paul_irish> so this api says nobody supports webgl
# [02:43] <paul_irish> i see.
# [02:43] <divya> also use .json
# [02:44] <divya> it says unknown
# [02:44] <paul_irish> ok
# [02:44] <divya> not that unsupported
# [02:45] <divya> i had that updated because previously it returned an empty set
# [02:45] <divya> without any browser info.
# [02:45] <paul_irish> well this is slightly better :)
# [02:45] <divya> i just made it return support as unknown.
# [02:45] <paul_irish> but still unexpected for me
# [02:45] <divya> dont use .html also anyways
# [02:46] <smplstk> caniuse webgl
# [02:46] <caniuse> smplstk: WebGL - 3D Canvas graphics is not fully supported anywhere.
# [02:46] * smplstk cries
# [02:46] <divya> i guess get.webgl.org is best bet for webGL which is great
# [02:46] <divya> no need to use this for that.
# [02:47] <paul_irish> should probably document that then
# [02:47] <jetienne_> divya: paul_irish: what about webrtc ? it depends on browser but webcam/microphone too. would that answer 'probably' too ?
# [02:47] <divya> we can use the supported == 'unknown' to render in that preview area
# [02:47] <smplstk> caniuse webrtc
# [02:47] <smplstk> ha, nadda
# [02:48] <paul_irish> webrtc currently isnt on caniuse sooooo
# [02:48] <smplstk> well - that makes perfect sense then.
# [02:48] <jetienne_> ok
# [02:48] <paul_irish> but it's pretty much not usable with this API
# [02:48] <paul_irish> too early
# [02:48] <paul_irish> :/
# [02:48] <paul_irish> i dont even know if a modernizr test exists for it
# [02:48] <divya> best thing would be to document and write tests
# [02:48] <divya> and submit it to fyrd
# [02:49] <jetienne_> ok :)
# [02:49] <divya> modernizr and caniuse should collab on testing.
# [02:49] <divya> and naming
# [02:49] <paul_irish> they collab on testing already
# [02:49] <paul_irish> again,
# [02:49] <smplstk> are the naming conventions different?
# [02:49] <paul_irish> caniuse should be open source
# [02:49] <paul_irish> so jetienne_ can add webrtc to it
# [02:49] <paul_irish> etc
# [02:49] <divya> very different.
# [02:50] <divya> sure, once fyrd gets the hang of github.
# [02:50] <smplstk> that's unfortunate.
# [02:50] <divya> or ask him to send you files
# [02:50] <smplstk> so - caniuse is php?
# [02:50] <divya> i dunno.
# [02:50] <smplstk> wat
# [02:50] <smplstk> I thought you said the api was?
# [02:51] <jetienne_> another suggestion: what about answering 'probably' like video, and provide the function to test and get the actual definitive answer ? it would be usefull in webgl case. or that out of the scope of the project ?
# [02:51] <smplstk> something about "porting it to something more sane"?
# [02:52] <smplstk> jetienne_: I agree, something like "partial" with further details would be better than an empty set.
# [02:52] <smplstk> which is what is currently returned, as far as I know...
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# [02:54] <jetienne_> divya: putting that on github would be cool indeed. if fyrd want to, he can ping me and i would be happy to walk him thru the thing
# [02:54] <divya> k will ask him.
# [02:54] <paul_irish> modernizr widget done
# [02:56] <jetienne_> widget just js got a typo <script src="http://api.html5please.com/hashchange.json?callback=h5pCaniuse&texticon&nocss&1&html<script>
# [02:57] <jetienne_> the end "></script>
# [02:57] <paul_irish> lookin
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# [03:00] <paul_irish> fxxd
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# [03:07] <divya> what to tweet?
# [03:11] <jetienne_> http://api.html5please.com/fullscreen.json?callback=h5please&texticon&1&html <- this return json and not html
# [03:11] <divya> yeah thats intentional
# [03:13] <jetienne_> divya: hmm ok i misunderstood the 'html' at the end then. but what about the 'just js' then ? http://jsfiddle.net/xzEyw/ this code seems to assume to receive html, no ?
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# [03:13] <jetienne_> it produce an error in console
# [03:15] <divya> jetienne: yeah basically i should add a html there with an empty string
# [03:15] * divya does
# [03:15] <jetienne_> cool :)
# [03:18] <divya> what does this mean paul_irish ? "Identify support browsers with Feature Detection"
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# [03:22] <jetienne_> q. what is number 0 or & 1 or & 2 means in the url ?
# [03:22] <paul_irish> i believe that's a bug
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# [03:25] <divya> yeah its a bug
# [03:25] <divya> looking to fix
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# [03:26] <divya> ha i know what it is
# [03:26] <paul_irish> divya:
# [03:26] <paul_irish> just found it
# [03:26] <divya> yeah
# [03:26] <paul_irish> divya: .not('[name="widgetformat"]'); on 109
# [03:27] <divya> err wat?
# [03:27] <divya> no
# [03:27] <divya> $options
# [03:27] <divya> is defined to get all inputs
# [03:27] <paul_irish> right...
# [03:27] <divya> in #get-api
# [03:27] <divya> so it needs to only get options
# [03:27] <paul_irish> right.. the .not() will subtract the type radio
# [03:27] <divya> yeahh but would rather isolate to .options
# [03:27] <divya> rather than .notting it
# [03:27] <paul_irish> aiight all you
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# [03:30] <divya> k fixed jetienne
# [03:31] <jetienne_> in modernizr widget, yep: function(){ initApp() }, where is the initApp function ? cant find it. http://www.modernizr.com/downloads/modernizr.js is the modernizr i included.
# [03:32] <divya> jetienne: its supposed to be your app
# [03:32] <divya> or w/e
# [03:32] <divya> like to kickstart your javascripts
# [03:32] <divya> if features are all selected
# [03:32] <divya> its too much magic?
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# [03:34] <jetienne_> divya: yep i didnt get it at least. what about something like yourOwnAppInit(); /* replace this by your own init */
# [03:34] <jetienne_> or replaceMeByYourOwnInit(); <- the style i use... it seems so ugly that people are reading it :)
# [03:34] <divya> yeah sgtm jetienne_ can send pull req?
# [03:34] <divya> :)
# [03:34] <divya> hahaha
# [03:34] <divya> i like your first case :P
# [03:35] <jetienne_> divya: sure :) arl of the repo ?
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# [03:35] <divya> github.com/h5bp/html5please-api/
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# [03:48] <tw2113> divya paul_irish_ out of curiosity related to file size, have you considered .cf instead of .clearfix ?
# [03:49] <divya> it does not add too much to the size.
# [03:49] <tw2113> just wanted to throw the idea your way
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# [03:52] <divya> thnx tw2113!
# [03:52] <tw2113> depending on how much the class gets used, it could add up to a lot
# [03:54] <divya> tw2113: ideally you would use sass and use the @extend rule
# [03:54] <divya> rather than typing it manually everywhere.
# [03:54] <jetienne_> divya: found the code :) which one do you prefere ? yourOwnAppInit() or replaceMeByYourOwnInit() ?
# [03:54] <divya> that yourOwnAllInit() /* replace htis by your own init */
# [03:54] <divya> err AppInit
# [03:55] <jetienne_> ok
# [03:55] <tw2113> unrelated...but would either of you want a credit card number stored in a WordPress database ever?
# [03:55] <divya> never
# [03:55] <divya> ever
# [03:56] <tw2113> client project is close to insisting on the ability to save credit card #s. It's an ecommerce based "daily deal" site
# [03:56] <tw2113> and i'm almost to the point of running away from this part
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# [04:08] <jetienne_> divya: pull request sent. it took me way too long :)
# [04:09] <divya> haha no problemo
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# [04:19] <jetienne_> ok 4am here, bed time for me. have fun
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# [04:20] <divya> thnx jetienne_
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# [09:02] <JonathanNeal> Good news, everyone! diveintohtml5.info and diveinto.org/html5 are not setup for hourly git pulls from diveintomark/diveintohtml5
# [09:02] <JonathanNeal> *are now!
# [09:03] <grantg> lol "not"
# [09:04] <grantg> Big typo. :P
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# [09:04] <grantg> Nice to hear though
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# [09:05] <JonathanNeal> grantg: yea ... a great typo indeed.
# [09:05] <grantg> Don't feel bad, I do that a lot too. D:
# [09:07] <JonathanNeal> this is still great news. we're all working together to make the web a better place. i love moments like that.
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# [09:10] <tw2113> *throws confetti bags*
# [09:11] * grantg throws a bag full of rocks into the air... oh wait
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# [09:12] <JonathanNeal> oh no everyone duck and cover!
# [09:12] <JonathanNeal> why, why grantg, oh no
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# [09:12] <grantg> lol
# [09:12] <tw2113> it's ok JonathanNeal, grantg is young and a little slow
# [09:13] <tw2113> jk
# [09:14] <grantg> :I
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# [09:14] <tw2113> grantg you take the rocks out of the bag and then you throw them all
# [09:15] <JonathanNeal> I would really like to make the diveintohtml5 site mobile / tablet friendly.
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# [09:19] <JonathanNeal> http://htwins.net/scale2/
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# [09:28] <shwetank> http://my.opera.com/ODIN/blog/2012/02/25/opera-mobile-12-and-introducing-opera-mini-next
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# [13:04] <andrewjbaker> Morning.
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# [14:18] <_ryan_t> morning
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# [14:48] <simenbrekken> Is there a selector for both :before and :after? Can I do something like .myclass:* ?
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# [15:21] <xec> simenbrekken: no, use comma
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# [15:22] <xec> simenbrekken: .myclass:after, .myclass:before {...}
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# [16:44] <mrfree> hi all
# [16:46] <mrfree> should <source type="video/ogg; codecs='theora, vorbis'" src="foo.ogv" /> be as good as <source type='video/ogg; codecs="theora, vorbis"' src="foo.ogv" />? please pay attention to single quote and double quote
# [16:47] <Jon47> mrfree that should be fine
# [16:47] <mrfree> reading some mozilla dev examples type="video/ogg; codecs=theora, vorbis" can be used too, so without any quote at all
# [16:47] <mrfree> what's the best way?
# [16:48] <Jon47> mrfree check out http://mothereff.in/unquoted-attributes to see when you *need* to quote your attribtues
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# [16:48] <Jon47> otherwise, unquoted should be fine, and as long as you don't have double-quotes or single-quotes in your attribute values, I don't think it matters at all whether you use single or double quotes to delimit your attrs
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# [16:51] <mrfree> Jon47: useful link... thanks. so I can simply remove space between theora, vorbis and use it unquoted
# [16:51] <mrfree> I give it a try
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# [16:51] <Jon47> seems legit to me, good luck sir!
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# [16:53] <Jon47> my personal strategy is to try to use the most readable format possible, if you lose even a little bit of readability it's probably not worth saving a couple extra bytes in the filesize
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# [16:53] <Jon47> whoever has to maintain your code (even you, two weeks from now) will thank you ;)
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# [17:47] <JonathanNeal> smile happy everybody!
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# [17:48] * andrewjbaker smiles sad.
# [17:49] <JonathanNeal> close enough, andrewjbaker :D
# [17:49] <andrewjbaker> LOL.
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# [18:19] <jesly> is anybody impressed with this http://redatom2.0fees.net/tk11/index.html
# [18:20] <jesly> it was built 6 months ago, but we were not appreciated #programmers grief
# [18:20] <jesly> :(
# [18:20] <StoneCypher> yes, actually
# [18:20] <StoneCypher> i was expecting to mock you for garbage but
# [18:20] <StoneCypher> this is pretty neat.
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# [18:22] <jesly> StoneCypher: we are still insulted people calling it flash. And nobody in our college understands it to be revolutionary
# [18:22] <jesly> though its not so neat..:D
# [18:23] <Lebannen> pretty slick
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# [18:23] <Lebannen> Seems to load a lot of resources on page load - 1.4MB?
# [18:23] <StoneCypher> well i wouldn't go as far as to call it revolutionary
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# [18:23] <StoneCypher> it's an animation rendered in either canvas or svg
# [18:23] <StoneCypher> that's uh
# [18:23] <StoneCypher> neat
# [18:23] <StoneCypher> but it's not something the web has never seen before
# [18:24] <StoneCypher> and it's not something a talented programmer couldn't imitate, provided art support
# [18:24] <Lebannen> Ah, all the content is in events
# [18:24] <jesly> StoneCypher: lol revolutionary aint not.. i was exaggerating
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# [18:25] <Lebannen> It's a nice example of slick transitions and navigation without flash
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# [18:25] <jesly> StoneCypher: its on canvas
# [18:25] <jesly> we extracted all the points and made them draw
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# [18:27] <StoneCypher> why not just keep the original asset and extract the points inline
# [18:27] <StoneCypher> much less bandwidth heavy
# [18:27] <StoneCypher> 's not like flood fill is computationally intensive
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# [18:29] <josefrichter> guys, is there something like :wrap pseudo element in css(3) that would wrap the target element into the pseudo one?
# [18:29] <jesly> StoneCypher: keep original asset and extract points inline?? how is that done??
# [18:30] <jesly> wot we did was this, get a few points of image and join the lines between
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# [18:30] <jesly> http://redatom2.0fees.net/tk11/scripts/mAnim.js
# [18:30] <StoneCypher> *blinks*
# [18:30] <StoneCypher> you did that by hand?
# [18:30] <jesly> does the work
# [18:31] <StoneCypher> oh. you're not a programmer, you're an artist.
# [18:31] <StoneCypher> i get it now.
# [18:31] <jesly> nope, extracted to .ai and got points from it
# [18:31] <jesly> lol
# [18:31] <StoneCypher> jesus.
# [18:31] <StoneCypher> well, i guess it worked
# [18:32] <StoneCypher> and that's what matters
# [18:33] <StoneCypher> jesly: a word to the wise: get a programmer. http://vimeo.com/36579366
# [18:33] <StoneCypher> yes, the first five minutes are boring
# [18:33] <StoneCypher> give it a chance.
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# [18:35] <jesly> actually we started with rendering the vitruvian man
# [18:35] <jesly> the idea to render a circle from points was stupid, but n haste we dint think of algorithms
# [18:35] <jesly> just went with initial idea
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# [18:36] <jesly> plan was to give a drawing effect to any outline image
# [18:37] <jesly> and we are programmers :with shame:
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# [18:40] <Pomax> sa detected
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# [18:47] <jesly> Pomax: sa detected??
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# [18:52] <Guddu> Dear all...When i submit a form, the post data is not having all the values that i need. What could be the problem?
# [18:53] <Jon47> Guddu, could be lots of things, can you make a fiidle for us to look at?
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# [18:56] <Guddu> Dear Jon47 Thanks for your response. I have pasted a fiddle in http://jsfiddle.net/3Gs2c/
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# [18:59] <Jon47> Guddu dude make it work
# [18:59] <Jon47> you can't just paste the source of your page
# [19:00] <Jon47> go to some effort and we'll help you
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# [19:01] <Guddu> Jon47, The Page is generated using Django as the backend....I am also trying to extract only the relevant portions for you to see.....Please don't think that I am trying to dump this on you. I will be right bacK with teh relevant text :-) Thanks for your help
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# [19:10] <Guddu> Dear Jon47 I have pasted a edit of my fiddle at http://jsfiddle.net/3Gs2c/5/ with only relevant things...I think I am doing some minor mistake....Things like the values from the following are not getting passed on to the POST Data
# [19:10] <Guddu> <input type="text" name="quantity" value="1" size="20" id="quantity_2"><input type="hidden" name="id" value="1"></td>
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# [19:10] <Guddu> <textarea name="comment" cols="40" rows="4" id="comment"></textarea>
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# [19:12] <Jon47> guddu I don't see a submit button, how are you submitting this?
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# [19:12] <philihp> i thought of you guys when i made this. http://i.qkme.me/36c90f.jpg
# [19:13] <Guddu> jon47 ...this is through a javascript...I have updated the fiddle now http://jsfiddle.net/3Gs2c/6/ with Javascript code
# [19:14] <tw2113> how sweet of you
# [19:14] <tw2113> should have been a * instead of "all the things" though :P
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# [19:15] <philihp> * is a meme?
# [19:15] <Jon47> guddu, all your inputs are OUTSIDE of your form
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# [19:15] <tw2113> no, but it is a universal selector
# [19:15] <philihp> oh lol yeah
# [19:15] <philihp> i try not to use the '*' anywhere, ever, though. when it is in a big enough font, it looks like a butt hole
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# [19:16] <tw2113> it'd be fine for a meme thoug
# [19:16] <tw2113> h
# [19:18] <Guddu> Jon47, I am so embarassed :(
# [19:19] <Guddu> Jon47, It was a long line so i totally missed the forms closing tag which was on the same line
# [19:19] <Guddu> jon47, is there a goood way i can validate HTMLs...Like for example in this case </form> was mentioned twice. HTML Validation would have indicate the problem beforehand.
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# [19:20] <smplstk> ?g html validator @ Guddu
# [19:20] <bot-t> Guddu, The W3C Markup Validation Service - http://validator.w3.org/
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# [19:53] <jesly> wots the editor which Bret Taylor uses in hos talk??
# [19:53] <jesly> *his
# [19:53] <jesly> damn!! awesome stuff
# [19:53] <jesly> dazed
# [19:56] <paul_irish> yup
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# [19:58] <jesly> paul_irish: wots the stuff he uses?? can point and element and codes highlighted, color picker, scrollers everything
# [19:58] <jesly> its is real!! :P
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# [20:01] <Guddu> Jon47, That HTML closing tag is getting appended automaticallly ....Looks like html is not correct. Can <FORM> be a child element of <tr> (or only <td> or <th> is permitted?)
# [20:02] <Jon47> Guddu I think you know the answer ;)
# [20:02] <Wilto> In your heart.
# [20:02] <Guddu> Jon47, I kno the answer for HTML is not corrrect :-) Its is huighly probable at the moment...What about the other one.
# [20:03] <Guddu> Can <FORM> be a child element of <tr> (or only <td> or <th> is permitted?)
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# [20:07] <Jon47> honestly Guddu I'm reading the specs and it's not clear to me that you aren't technically allowed to have a form as a child of the tr tag, but if browsers do what they are doing, then regardless of what is valid, you should do what works
# [20:08] <Jon47> although the REAL real fix is to stop using tables for layout
# [20:08] <Jon47> duh
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# [20:09] <divya> there is an implementation out in clojure for the bret taylor talk
# [20:09] <divya> ?g github clojure worrydream
# [20:09] <bot-t> divya, Clojurls - news and bits about Clojure - http://clojurls.com/
# [20:09] <divya> :(
# [20:10] <divya> https://github.com/ibdknox/live-cljs
# [20:10] <divya> but i dunno how to get it setup so i dunno how well it works :/
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# [20:12] <Guddu> Jon47, Another thing that is intriguing is this. When i view the source using View Source, it looks different then when i view the source html using Firebug.....I do have some table rows getting added dynamically over there using jquery....
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# [20:13] <Guddu> Jon47, If i were to replace tables, what shall i use instead for layouts
# [20:14] <Jon47> Guddu - html is very forgiving, you can write really mangled and invalid code and the browser will do its damnedest to render it properly, if this means moving a few tags around, browsers are definitely known to do this
# [20:14] <Jon47> instead of tables use anything else - divs, spans, articles, sections, headers, footers, etc.. etc...
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# [20:21] <marcocarag> divya: it's a pretty sweet demo. think you need https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen installed to get it going
# [20:21] <David_Bradbury> Designing layouts with tables has been considered bad practice for at least a decade =/
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# [20:22] <divya> marcocarag: yeah i figured, too much work for just scanning :P
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# [21:00] <xp_prg> hi all, I need to fix some things in IE with jquery while I try to troubleshoot why css3/html5 stuff is not working correctly in ie 9, I am trying to figure out the best way to detect IE and adjust the styles etc...
# [21:00] <xp_prg> any advice?
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# [21:02] <xp_prg> would I put it in  ?
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# [21:03] <marcoos> if lte IE 9 will suffice
# [21:03] <xp_prg> its not working in IE 9
# [21:03] <xp_prg> shows fine in chrome and firefox
# [21:03] <marcoos> what kind of "jquery stuff" are you putting in there?
# [21:04] <xp_prg> table zebra'ing, rounding corners, text-shadow, box-shadow
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# [21:06] <marcoos> so your conditional commenti itself looks ok
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# [21:06] <marcoos> apart from the fact that you don't really need "20" there
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# [21:06] <xp_prg> well if it is only going to be seen by IE perhaps I should do this: <!--[if (1)]>
# [21:06] <marcoos> ie 10 dropped support conditional comments
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# [21:07] <xp_prg> can I detect the browser in jquery then?
# [21:07] <marcoos> no, what i mean is, your "jquery stuff" must be wrong, because the <!--[if] part is ok
# [21:08] <marcoos> just replace 20 with 9, "20" is a non-sensical value
# [21:08] <xp_prg> conditional comments don't work in ie 10?
# [21:08] <marcoos> yes
# [21:08] <xp_prg> how do I put in ie specific stuff for ie 10 then?
# [21:08] <marcoos> you don't
# [21:09] <xp_prg> what if I need to?
# [21:09] <marcoos> the reasoning there is ie 10 is standards compliant enough, so that you don't need conditional comments
# [21:09] <marcoos> if you really need to fix something, you should sniff for the problem you want to work around, not the browser
# [21:09] <xp_prg> I don't have time for that
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# [21:10] <marcoos> well, if you really need to, there's always navigator.userAgent, but I don't think you'll ever need to do it
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# [21:11] <marcoos> back to your real problem - there must be sth wrong with your js inside the conditional comment
# [21:11] <marcoos> try replacing it with alert("foo") and check if the comment itself works maybe
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# [21:12] <marcoos> btw. you don't need type="text/javascript" - that's the implied default value for @type anyway
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# [21:17] <panda81> hi. Where might be some advanced html5 games or interactive apps
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# [21:18] <tertl4> probably in Georgia
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# [21:56] <WebDragon> http://jsfiddle.net/WebDragon/T4aeD/ possibly a better question for #css but ...
# [21:57] <WebDragon> (question is in the css comments)
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# [21:57] <WebDragon> should I be wrapping those blocks with a wrapper? is that sort of thing still necessary so as to avoid the paragraph overflow issue below ?
# [21:58] <WebDragon> yes I could set .clearing on that paragraph but I'm anticipating this content will be in wordpress, so the 'client' won't think to add classes in that manner
# [21:58] <WebDragon> trying to think if there's a better way to work around the issue in another fashion when you cannot depend on adding a clearing class to the element following the last box
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# [22:10] <xp_prg> is there a more css3 approach to using jquery to zebra stirpe a table then just adding an odd and even class etc... ?
# [22:11] <gavacho> using the :odd and :even psuedo classes?
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# [22:12] <marcocarag> xp_prg: :nth-child(even) and :nth-child(odd)
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# [22:13] <xp_prg> $('table#table_id tr:nth-child(even).css('background-color', '#ddd');
# [22:14] <xp_prg> does that work?
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# [22:15] <andrewjbaker> Evening.
# [22:16] <xp_prg> yup that worked!
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# [22:25] <xp_prg> marcocarag how do I make it skip the first row?
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# [22:41] <marcocarag> xp_prg: maybe use :first-child with its own style overrides
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# [22:44] <xp_prg> this is not working: $('article#excel').css({'float':'left', 'font-size':'20px'});
# [22:44] <David_Bradbury> xp_prg: Remember the closing quote in: $('table#table_id tr:nth-child(even).css('background-color', '#ddd');
# [22:45] <xp_prg> yes I did see that problem before thanks :>
# [22:45] <xp_prg> any ideas why my article approach is not working?
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# [22:45] <David_Bradbury> xp_prg: Hmm, and excel is an ID within article?
# [22:45] <xp_prg> ya
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# [22:47] <David_Bradbury> Well, do you have a console window open?
# [22:47] <xp_prg> ya
# [22:47] <David_Bradbury> What does $('article#excel') return?
# [22:48] <xp_prg> The value of the property '$' is null or undefined, not a Function object"
# [22:48] <David_Bradbury> So it isn't finding it
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# [22:49] <David_Bradbury> You have some sort of <article> tag with something <blah id="excel"> in it?
# [22:49] <xp_prg> <article id='excel'>
# [22:49] <xp_prg> yup
# [22:50] <marcoos> it means $ does not exist, so it means you have problems with loading jQuery
# [22:51] <xp_prg> well jquery is functioning on this page
# [22:51] <David_Bradbury> Note to self, read the whole sentence instead of just seeing "null or undefined"
# [22:51] <xp_prg> don't know why the console can't use it
# [22:51] <xp_prg> but it is in a frame
# [22:51] <xp_prg> the bottom frame
# [22:51] <David_Bradbury> Well that's why. The main window doesn't have jQuery loaded
# [22:52] <xp_prg> is there a trick to get around that somehow?
# [22:52] <David_Bradbury> Well, what is the name of the bottom window?
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# [22:54] <xp_prg> its name is bottomframe
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# [22:58] <David_Bradbury> Alright, so then window.frames["bottomframe"].$("article#excel");
# [22:59] <David_Bradbury> Sorry about the short delay, I'm at work :p
# [22:59] <xp_prg> very cool, thanks, I will try it
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# [23:10] <xp_prg> well I included htmlshiv in ie 9 and that fixed a bunch of things
# [23:10] <xp_prg> but supposedly its not needed
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# [23:12] <xp_prg> David_Bradbury that did work!
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# [23:12] <xp_prg> I heart you
# [23:12] <David_Bradbury> :)
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# [23:13] <andrewjbaker> Aw... #html5 love. *whimsical sigh* :-D
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# [23:17] <tw2113> IRC hug?
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# [23:18] <andrewjbaker> ^^
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# [23:22] <xp_prg> what is the best way to do a css3 linear gradient with jquery?
# [23:22] <csmrfx> what? css3
# [23:22] <csmrfx> or svg
# [23:23] <xp_prg> css3
# [23:23] <csmrfx> or inline b64 svg
# [23:23] <xp_prg> I want a pure jquery solution
# [23:23] <csmrfx> lol
# [23:23] <csmrfx> go to #jquery, then
# [23:23] <David_Bradbury> Here is a 'pure' CSS tool: http://www.colorzilla.com/gradient-editor/
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# [23:24] <David_Bradbury> I'm not sure what you mean by creating a gradient with jQuery though - jQuery would only apply the gradient you give it
# [23:24] <xp_prg> well ie 7 doesn't support linear-gradient
# [23:25] <xp_prg> so you have to use jquery to make the linear-gradient
# [23:25] <csmrfx> np
# [23:25] <teslan> i am creating a youtube vides list ... so what would be the most efficient elements to use, to which i am guessing i need to assign class names, so that i can select and style them from within a css file ?
# [23:25] <csmrfx> use an image
# [23:25] <csmrfx> teslan ul li?
# [23:26] <teslan> csmrfx: instead of divs that i have seen so many use?
# [23:26] <David_Bradbury> Well, IE7 does support it, but it uses it's own proprietary method. Also, xp_prg, how do you expect jQuery to 'create' the gradient?
# [23:26] <csmrfx> teslan well, ul is a list element.
# [23:26] <csmrfx> teslan but divititis seems to be the norm sickness for most 'htmlers'
# [23:26] <csmrfx> true, taht
# [23:26] <xp_prg> David_Bradbury goal: ie-7 gradient in a cross platform way
# [23:26] <David_Bradbury> Do you mean have jQuery convert a CSS gradient to Microsoft's filter?
# [23:27] <xp_prg> what is the best way to accomplish that goal?
# [23:27] <csmrfx> xp_prg: stop talking and start writing (or googling)
# [23:27] <xp_prg> Dave is that the best way to have jquery convert it?
# [23:28] <teslan> csmrfx: i am new to this and would think that each <li> needs to be made up of several pieces for title, description, thumbnail and channel ... so , which elementes do i use within ... it coulc be all text but how would i have it in different font, colors, etc?
# [23:28] <csmrfx> me, I'd just tell people with IE7 they have to live without gradient deco
# [23:28] <csmrfx> teslan for text? I'd use span's
# [23:28] <David_Bradbury> Well, is there a reason you can't just use CSS without jQuery? Also, I assume it is for a background of a div or something?
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# [23:28] <csmrfx> teslan you want 'real' html5? you will need to read up on whats what, whats inline elems etc
# [23:29] <teslan> o heck no, i managed to get it all done by trial and error, up to look and feel ;)
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# [23:29] <csmrfx> google and stackoverflow ;)
# [23:29] <csmrfx> +kindness of strangers
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# [23:30] <csmrfx> teslan you still would do well to read this: http://www.w3.org/TR/2011/WD-html5-20110525/semantics.html#semantics
# [23:30] <teslan> i am extremely grateful to kindness of strangers and thank you
# [23:30] <teslan> ok
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# [23:31] <csmrfx> briefly, to get idea of what elems do what
# [23:32] <csmrfx> teslan especially sections 4.5 and 4.6
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# [23:32] <csmrfx> and I hope you moved to this as yt supports it http://www.w3.org/TR/2011/WD-html5-20110525/the-iframe-element.html#the-video-element
# [23:33] <csmrfx> I'm still working on my video mixer, complete rewrite from scratch
# [23:34] <teslan> csmrfx: oooooooooooohhhhhhhhhh yes, after going down adobe flex route and then once adobe dropped the ball, but should have erlier
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# [23:35] <teslan> csmrfx: so i am working with 2 players, one plays the other buffers then they swap roles and all of that to achieve smooth fade in/out of video and cross-over of sound
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# [23:36] <teslan> this document ends at 4.2.7 so there is no 4.5 nor 4.6
# [23:36] <csmrfx> teslan yeah, I have n players in the browser... so far max has been 12 and works fine
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# [23:36] <csmrfx> teslan go up to the table of contents and see
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# [23:38] <csmrfx> but yeah, mine is actually meant for creative video mixing so you might have one player looping a 2 second loop over and over again, and so on
# [23:38] <csmrfx> but now, must go, c'yas
# [23:39] <teslan> csmrfx: thanks a million
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# [23:49] <teslan> how much difference do long vs short id and class names make ?
# [23:50] <smplstk> teslan: in what way?
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# [23:50] <smplstk> like, performance wise?
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# [23:51] <teslan> smplstk: memory use, performance, parsing, don't know
# [23:51] <smplstk> generally speaking... id/class names should be as semantic and concise as possible.
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# [23:53] <smplstk> as far as perf stuff is concerned, I don't think you have too much to worry about.
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# [23:53] <smplstk> teslan: check this out http://mathiasbynens.be/notes/css-escapes
# [23:53] <smplstk> even <p class=":`("></p> is legit now
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# Session Close: Tue Feb 28 00:00:00 2012

The end :)