/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2012-02-28 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Feb 28 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
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  16. # [00:23] <JonnyCash> Line 4, Column 65: Bad value X-UA-Compatible for attribute http-equiv on element meta.
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  18. # [00:23] <JonnyCash> <meta http-equiv="X-UA-Compatible" content="IE=edge,chrome=1" />
  19. # [00:23] <JonnyCash> how do you make that valid? but still work?
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  23. # [00:24] <ColKurtz> JonnyCash, you can send it in the http headers
  24. # [00:25] <JonnyCash> ok
  25. # [00:25] <ColKurtz> the html5 boiler plate has an example
  26. # [00:25] <JonnyCash> thanks
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  50. # [01:08] <nFFF> CORS is pretty fuarking cool, how long until this is really supported
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  52. # [01:09] <divya> caniuse cors
  53. # [01:09] <caniuse> divya: You can use Cross-Origin Resource Sharing with Firefox 3.5, Chrome 4, Safari 4, and iOS Safari 3.2. http://caniuse.com/#search=cors
  54. # [01:10] <nFFF> Whys it not mainstream?
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  57. # [01:10] <nFFF> There's gotta be a catch
  58. # [01:10] <tw2113> ?
  59. # [01:11] <divya> IE support exists only from 10+
  60. # [01:11] <nFFF> Ok
  61. # [01:12] <nFFF> tw2113, in no channnel Im in where someone asks about ajax/cross domain request has any ever suggested CORS
  62. # [01:12] <tw2113> ok
  63. # [01:12] <nFFF> so was just seeing if there's any reason kids aren't using it everywhere
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  66. # [01:12] <tw2113> because they don't know about it yet? meaning the hipsters rule the roost right now
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  101. # [01:47] <paul_irish> ie8+ had xdomainrequest which is CORS like
  102. # [01:48] <paul_irish> because ie7 compat has been a requirement everyone just uses jsonp
  103. # [01:48] <paul_irish> plus using jsonp is syntactically easier than writing an XHR req
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  135. # [02:48] <lontra> Please, are all the same thing? Initializr, Modernizr, HTML5 Boilerplate and Roots Theme?
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  137. # [02:53] <dilvie> lontra: no
  138. # [02:55] <lontra> dilvie: all very confusing .. any of these are the same thing?
  139. # [02:56] <dilvie> lontra: I'm not familiar with Roots Theme
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  143. # [02:58] <lontra> dilvie: Initializr and HTML5 Boilerplate make the use of Modernizr (a JS library for html5).. thus, the Initializr and HTML5 Boilerplate are the same thing?
  144. # [02:59] <StoneCypher> they are not
  145. # [02:59] <lontra> dilvie: I'm correct?
  146. # [02:59] <StoneCypher> cars and houses both make use of screws. that doesn't mean they're the same thing.
  147. # [03:00] <dilvie> no lontra -- dependency is not equivalence.. modernizr doesn't actually do anything
  148. # [03:00] <lontra> right.. and if they are not the same thing, what each one is? :/
  149. # [03:00] <lontra> where do I start?
  150. # [03:00] <dilvie> it provides feature detection checks that your code can call.. boilerplate uses them.
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  152. # [03:01] <StoneCypher> lontra: in the docs, on their respective sites.
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  155. # [03:02] <lontra> I have entered the sites and I do not understand anything.. for me it's all the same... there is something more than that? nitializr, Modernizr, HTML5 Boilerplate and Roots Theme?
  156. # [03:03] <divya> lontra: please try reading and spending a few minutes with the code.
  157. # [03:03] <divya> Modernizr = JS library
  158. # [03:03] <divya> HTML5 Boilerplate = defaults to start with when you work on your project
  159. # [03:03] <divya> roots theme = design template for wordpress
  160. # [03:03] <StoneCypher> all three are things you shouldn't be using unless you know what they're for and what they do
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  162. # [03:04] <lontra> divya: thanks, your answer was objectively was what I wanted
  163. # [03:04] <ColKurtz> lontra, I would recommend you study the Boilerplate documentation extensively
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  165. # [03:04] <ColKurtz> It's pretty good
  166. # [03:05] <ColKurtz> and will point you in the direction of things like the modernizr library or blog posts explaining what's going on and why
  167. # [03:05] <ColKurtz> like their example .htaccess file
  168. # [03:07] <lontra> ColKurtz: thanks..
  169. # [03:07] <lontra> dilvie: thanks
  170. # [03:07] <lontra> StoneCypher: thanks
  171. # [03:07] <lontra> I forgot someone? :)
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  206. # [04:12] <ryanseddon> divya: the code snippet for h5p api is broken as when i paste it it's all on one line and the single line comment breaks it
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  212. # [04:14] <ryanseddon> paul_irish: ^^
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  221. # [04:28] <MrGlass> anybody around here have safari and able totest something for me?
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  252. # [05:27] <ryanseddon> MrGlass: Go check out http://browserling.com/
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  262. # [05:48] <JonathanNeal> hello
  263. # [05:48] <shwetank> hey
  264. # [05:49] <JonathanNeal> hey shwetank, what's new in HTML5?
  265. # [05:49] <jetienne> webrtc JonathanNeal
  266. # [05:49] <shwetank> lots of stuff! but i would like more people to talk about getUserMedia
  267. # [05:49] <shwetank> or gUM as I call it
  268. # [05:49] <jetienne> webcam and p2p video/audio communictation
  269. # [05:50] <JonathanNeal> webrtc, break it down for me?
  270. # [05:50] <JonathanNeal> what about gum?
  271. # [05:51] <jetienne> shwetank: i would like to write more about it too. do you know how i could easily setup and run a server ?
  272. # [05:51] <shwetank> JonathanNeal exactly what jetiene said, webrtc is about accessing the webcam (also the mic and peer to peer communication, but that hasnt been implemented in browsers yet)
  273. # [05:52] <shwetank> yeah, just a sec
  274. # [05:52] <jetienne> http://www.webrtc.org/running-the-demos <- to get a browser running it. in short you need chrome canari
  275. # [05:52] <JonathanNeal> awesome, then we can run an fft on the mic and tell people what note they are singing.
  276. # [05:52] <JonathanNeal> html5 autotune comes next
  277. # [05:52] <shwetank> you could also use a labs build of Opera Desktop, and the newly released Opera Mobile 12 also has support for it
  278. # [05:53] <jetienne> shwetank: serious ???
  279. # [05:53] <jetienne> webrtc on mobile ?
  280. # [05:53] <shwetank> yes!
  281. # [05:53] <jetienne> wow this is big :)
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  283. # [05:53] <jetienne> http://learningthreejs.com/blog/2012/02/07/live-video-in-webgl/ <- small writeup i did on webrtc
  284. # [05:53] <shwetank> http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/playing-with-html5-video-and-getusermedia-support/ is a good article for it, as is http://html5doctor.com/getusermedia/
  285. # [05:53] <JonathanNeal> nifty
  286. # [05:53] <JonathanNeal> let's get pitch detection going fast.
  287. # [05:54] <JonathanNeal> we need to compute the spectrum, then ifft the fft signal or something like http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6283104/pitch-detection-with-computespectrum-return-fft-values
  288. # [05:54] <shwetank> if you want demos, head over to shinydemos.com for a few which use gUM, like the color picker, polaroid taker, explode demos
  289. # [05:54] <JonathanNeal> we can lean back on the old dhtml demos @ http://home.fuse.net/clymer/graphs/fourier.html
  290. # [05:55] <JonathanNeal> has someone made the flash fallback yet?
  291. # [05:55] <JonathanNeal> here we go, a dsp filter set @ https://github.com/corbanbrook/dsp.js/
  292. # [05:56] <jetienne> about audio api, i would like to learn more about it. anybody knows if webkit and mozilla agreed on the api ? for some time, 2 different api were around
  293. # [05:57] <jetienne> JonathanNeal: typically the kind of thing which is nice in webworker
  294. # [05:58] <jetienne> webworker are nice now, the performance to exchange info between the main thread and the worker are very good
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  296. # [06:00] <JonathanNeal> "we got anooother teeeveee!"
  297. # [06:01] <jetienne> i have to make it entertaining :)
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  299. # [06:02] <JonathanNeal> It was fun!
  300. # [06:02] <JonathanNeal> so can i get the live audio spectrum?
  301. # [06:02] <jetienne> JonathanNeal: yes. it is doable
  302. # [06:03] <jetienne> http://www.creativeapplications.net/javascript-2/radiator-by-sebastian-sadowski-visualising-the-radio-waves-with-three-js/
  303. # [06:03] <JonathanNeal> what is this three js thing i keep seeing?
  304. # [06:03] <jetienne> JonathanNeal: those guys are doing things which may be interested
  305. # [06:04] <jetienne> JonathanNeal: this is a 3D library. it makes it easier to do webgl then direct access to webgl api. (disclaimer i write a blog on it)
  306. # [06:05] <JonathanNeal> they are interesting
  307. # [06:05] <JonathanNeal> awesome
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  309. # [06:10] <JonathanNeal> jetienne, have you had time to play with this stuff?
  310. # [06:11] <jetienne> JonathanNeal: web audio api ? not yet but looking forward to
  311. # [06:12] <jetienne> JonathanNeal: or if i could get a webrtc server running... i could do a fun skype-like demo in webgl... secondlife style :)
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  313. # [06:16] <JonathanNeal> :)
  314. # [06:17] <jetienne> shwetank: oh you are from opera ? cool :)
  315. # [06:17] <shwetank> jetienne yup :)
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  319. # [06:32] <jetienne> shwetank: i cant find a link on webrtc and opera. i would like to update my post on webrtc. do you have one ?
  320. # [06:32] <shwetank> just a sec jetienne
  321. # [06:32] <shwetank> do you want a link to the spec, or just a blog post etc where we talk about webrtc?
  322. # [06:33] <jetienne> shwetank: a post were opera announce webrtc is now available
  323. # [06:33] <shwetank> http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/playing-with-html5-video-and-getusermedia-support/
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  325. # [06:34] <shwetank> actually, this is a better link http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/getusermedia-access-camera-privacy-ui/
  326. # [06:34] <jetienne> shwetank: excelent thx
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  329. # [06:38] <JonathanNeal> the direct downloads are @ http://snapshot.opera.com/labs/camera/ too
  330. # [06:39] <jetienne> shwetank: http://www.webrtc.org/running-the-demos doesnt include opera. may be usefull to update it
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  332. # [06:40] <JonathanNeal> digging the real life color picker.
  333. # [06:40] <shwetank> yeah, thanks .... will ask them to include us too
  334. # [06:42] <shwetank> JonathanNeal :) glad you liked it
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  337. # [06:43] <JonathanNeal> yea i showed it to my wife like "hey look this website tells you how to decorate and match for the home"
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  339. # [06:43] <JonathanNeal> ... according to the way the webcam sees us ...
  340. # [06:44] <JonathanNeal> so how would two of us chat live over html5?
  341. # [06:44] <shwetank> you mean video chat?
  342. # [06:45] <JonathanNeal> indeedily!
  343. # [06:47] <shwetank> im honestly am not exactly sure of it, but you do get a stream of your webcam, and if the other person's stream is also available, then premuably you could either use p2p (which is there in the spec, but not implemented yet by browsers) or a thrid party server to relay it to each other
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  367. # [07:44] <JonnyCash> where is the best place to look for local programmers to hire? Aside from the freelanceboards/local colleges/meetups and craigslist
  368. # [07:44] <JonnyCash> any ideas?
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  371. # [07:45] <JonathanNeal> The internets.
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  375. # [07:47] <JonnyCash> great idea
  376. # [07:47] <JonnyCash> :/
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  385. # [07:52] <JonathanNeal> caniuse canvas
  386. # [07:52] <caniuse> JonathanNeal: You can use Canvas (basic support) with Internet Explorer 9, Firefox 2, Chrome 4, Safari 3.1, Opera 9, iOS Safari 3.2, and Opera Mobile 10. http://caniuse.com/#search=canvas
  387. # [07:52] <JonathanNeal> Woot!
  388. # [07:54] <smplstk> works with multiple features too
  389. # [07:54] <smplstk> caniuse canvas json sockets
  390. # [07:54] <caniuse> smplstk: You can use Canvas (basic support), JSON parsing, and Web Sockets with Firefox 6, and Chrome 14. http://caniuse.com/#search=canvas http://caniuse.com/#search=json http://caniuse.com/#search=websockets
  391. # [07:56] * Joins: shwetank (~shwetank@122.173.165.180)
  392. # [07:56] <JonathanNeal> caniuse is awesome
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  395. # [07:57] <tw2113> json wasn't parseable before Fx6?
  396. # [07:57] <tw2113> or would that just be native?
  397. # [07:57] <shwetank> JonnyCash what about linkedin? Most good ones will have a portfolio site on their profile which you could check out
  398. # [07:58] <JonnyCash> I've tried some on linkedin- hard to find the highly qualified ones
  399. # [07:58] <JonnyCash> good suggestion though
  400. # [07:58] <JonnyCash> thanks
  401. # [07:58] <shwetank> np
  402. # [07:58] <JonathanNeal> tw2113: It's the combo.
  403. # [07:58] <tw2113> ah
  404. # [07:58] <tw2113> canvas + json
  405. # [07:59] <JonathanNeal> Useful if you need to know how a set of features would impact you.
  406. # [07:59] <smplstk> canvas, json _and_ web sockets
  407. # [08:01] <JonathanNeal> I plan to incorporate html5please API into my work project soon too. No more kicking out users by vendor, vendor feature lists for the win.
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  410. # [08:01] <tw2113> caniuse json
  411. # [08:01] <caniuse> tw2113: You can use JSON parsing with Internet Explorer 8, Firefox 3.5, Chrome 4, Safari 4, Opera 10.5, iOS Safari 4.0-4.1, Opera Mini 5.0-6.0, and Opera Mobile 10. http://caniuse.com/#search=json
  412. # [08:01] <tw2113> ooh
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  415. # [08:02] <smplstk> if you ask multiple features, it narrows down based on the entire set
  416. # [08:02] <JonathanNeal> yea yea happy
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  695. # [15:12] <cynicalj1y> what resolution is suggested for producing images for mobile web? I keep seeing 640x960 but thats retina and (1) not everybody uses the iPhone (2) mobile web doesn't actually display at that
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  708. # [15:41] <niftylettuce> Looking for an open source browser extension development framework -- trying to find an alternative to http://crossfire.com or kangoextensions.com -- any advice?
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  714. # [15:46] <carminec> cynicalj1y: I am sure someone has written about that A List Apart or a similar site, butmaybe under the moniker of responsive design
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  716. # [15:47] <niftylettuce> Kango looks most promising, but the licensing I'm unsure of, waiting to hear back from their support.
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  721. # [15:56] <niftylettuce> ew expensive
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  732. # [16:07] <obert-> what is canvas for, exactly?
  733. # [16:08] <Clex> It's for drawing.
  734. # [16:08] <obert-> animations too?
  735. # [16:08] <shwetank> progammable graphics basically
  736. # [16:09] <obert-> i mean need js?
  737. # [16:09] <Clex> You can draw a new image over another, so yes.
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  740. # [16:09] <obert-> or more like html + css?:)
  741. # [16:09] <shwetank> think of it just an img tag , where you can program the pixels using javascript
  742. # [16:10] <obert-> http://www.drawastickman.com/ is canvas + svg (maybe js too) correct?
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  747. # [16:11] <shwetank> if something require canvas, then it pretty much implies it uses JS too
  748. # [16:11] <obert-> canvas is just the html area where to draw? then you need js | svg to program that canvas element?
  749. # [16:12] <shwetank> yeah, you need JS to program the graphics in the canvas area
  750. # [16:12] <obert-> mhm
  751. # [16:12] <shwetank> svg is another way to make graphics, its seperate than canvas
  752. # [16:13] <obert-> <svg></svg> is that html?:D
  753. # [16:14] <obert-> http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/
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  756. # [16:15] <obert-> now i got why i never plaied with;)
  757. # [16:15] <obert-> thank you
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  771. # [16:27] <smplstk> caniuse svg
  772. # [16:27] <caniuse> smplstk: You can use SVG (basic support) with Internet Explorer 9, Firefox 3, Chrome 4, Safari 3.2, Opera 9, iOS Safari 3.2, Opera Mini 5.0-6.0, and Opera Mobile 10. http://caniuse.com/#search=svg
  773. # [16:28] <tbranyen> caniuse websprockets
  774. # [16:28] <xec> sprockets? is that like google gears? :)
  775. # [16:29] <tbranyen> i need 2 water my xen garden
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  891. # [18:05] <ganeshjacharya> i have a audio file here
  892. # [18:05] <ganeshjacharya> http://seashell.co.in/what-search-engine-marketing.htm
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  894. # [18:05] <ganeshjacharya> is there a better alternative?
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  930. # [18:52] <David_Bradbury> Man, I should really add this effect to my site. It would make it super l33t http://www.dynamicdrive.com/dynamicindex3/light.htm
  931. # [18:53] <JonnyCash> oh that would be sick
  932. # [18:53] <JonnyCash> you could put a headline "GET READY FOR THE STORM"
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  934. # [18:54] <David_Bradbury> All in marquee'd blink text, with "Highway to the Danger Zone" playing as a MIDI file in the background
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  936. # [18:55] <JonnyCash> lol
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  938. # [18:56] <David_Bradbury> Note to self: Create an Easter Egg mode
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  947. # [19:09] <David_Bradbury> Does Chrome have an animation format it supports similar to APNG (Some sort of animated format that allows a multibit alpha channel)
  948. # [19:09] <David_Bradbury> ?
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  962. # [19:31] <smplstk> David_Bradbury: you can do that with canvas
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  964. # [19:33] <David_Bradbury> Yeah. It would be nice if Webkit and Gecko could agree on a format though. It's just for a simple ajax loading animation, so no sense in writing up a canvas loader
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  979. # [19:53] <bemson> can I use two hgroup tags in a header?
  980. # [19:54] <bemson> i have a site title and page title
  981. # [19:54] <bemson> two different areas of the page
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  984. # [19:55] <David_Bradbury> Why not just use h1 for your title, and h2 for your page title?
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  995. # [20:13] <bemson> David_Bradbury: done that - just trying to see if hgroups would make the page more semantic...
  996. # [20:13] <David_Bradbury> Nope, that isn't what hgroups is for
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  998. # [20:16] <_ryan_t> :( html5rocks is down
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  1002. # [20:22] * tw2113 doesn't need the site to tell _ryan_t that html5 rocks
  1003. # [20:23] <tw2113> it rocks dude
  1004. # [20:23] <_ryan_t> :D
  1005. # [20:23] <_ryan_t> it rocks so hard the servers couldnt handle it
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  1007. # [20:23] <_ryan_t> oh and it's back
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  1009. # [20:26] <bendman> bemson: you could do hgroup>h1+h2
  1010. # [20:27] <bemson> bendman: yes, but there is an existing hgroup containing the site title and subtitle… I thought to add a second one for the page title, which is a in a different area of the page layout (i.e., not directly under the site title)
  1011. # [20:28] <bendman> bemson: ah, if your site title is in a different part of your html than your page title for some reason, then don't wrap the site title in an hgroup (unless it has it's own subtitle)
  1012. # [20:29] <bemson> clark - I'm using a div and an h2 for now - it wraps the "page title" and some other elements in a sub-header loook
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  1017. # [20:32] <paul_irish> http://webkitmemes.tumblr.com/post/18426849611/hipster-safari-was-there-first
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  1022. # [20:38] <bendman> paul_irish: I think they lose their hipster glasses for making up their own properties
  1023. # [20:38] <paul_irish> au contraire
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  1025. # [20:40] <David_Bradbury> He shouldn't be using hgroups for what he is doing. h1 and h2 are exactly what is semantically required.
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  1027. # [20:40] <paul_irish> lol hgroup
  1028. # [20:41] <David_Bradbury> I think the hardest thing so far about the transition to the html5 spec is people making things more complicated than they need to be
  1029. # [20:42] <David_Bradbury> Wanting to overuse new tags, etc...
  1030. # [20:42] <paul_irish> ive wrtten about this
  1031. # [20:42] <paul_irish> but
  1032. # [20:43] <paul_irish> my suggestion is to not waste time thinking about what is the right tag to use
  1033. # [20:43] <paul_irish> hgroup provides zero benefit to anything right now and i'm dubious it ever will
  1034. # [20:43] <_ryan_t> just ask your self what does w3schools recommend in regards to hgroups...lol im kdding
  1035. # [20:43] <paul_irish> what would w3schools do
  1036. # [20:43] <_ryan_t> lol
  1037. # [20:44] <_ryan_t> i think of southpark for some reason
  1038. # [20:45] <bendman> anybody know of a way to write/run multi-line JS in the chrome dev tools?
  1039. # [20:45] <David_Bradbury> Separate each line with a semi-colon?
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  1042. # [20:46] <David_Bradbury> var foo = "bar"; alert(foo);
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  1045. # [20:47] <bendman> was thinking like writing new functions on more than one line, etc. I can use semicolons, but seems messy
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  1047. # [20:49] <David_Bradbury> Hold shift and hit enter
  1048. # [20:49] <David_Bradbury> that will start a new line without running the code
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  1057. # [20:54] <JonathanNeal> paul_irish: the other day you talked about redirecting diveinto.org/html5 to diveintohtml5.info - how should we set that up, apache redirect, meta, eh?
  1058. # [20:54] <bendman> ah, meant with the ability to go back and change the code, like firebug console's sidebar... w/e guess can use copy/paste
  1059. # [20:55] <paul_irish> apache redirect, JonathanNeal
  1060. # [20:55] <paul_irish> bendman: no there isnt without using shift-enter
  1061. # [20:55] <paul_irish> notyet
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  1063. # [20:56] <bendman> thanks guys, just thought I might be missing something :)
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  1065. # [20:59] <nomad411> Hi everyone. I'm kinda newish to having to animate in HTML5 and would like a pointer in the right direction if possible. I'm googling now about how to have a curved path appear . It,s part of a logo, a kinda oval that has to go swoosh as it's drawn
  1066. # [20:59] <nomad411> no sound though, sorry
  1067. # [21:00] <JonathanNeal> paul_irish: thanks, done! http://www.diveinto.org/html5
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  1072. # [21:05] <Mikeysauce> Anybody experiencing crackling audio with chrome using html5? seems to work fine for firefox
  1073. # [21:06] <JonathanNeal> Mikeysauce: nope, and I use it @ http://music.thewikies.com/jonneal/ all the time.
  1074. # [21:06] <Mikeysauce> yeah those are reproducing the problem
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  1076. # [21:07] <JonathanNeal> Mikeysauce: what's your computer like?
  1077. # [21:07] <Mikeysauce> good enough, i7, 6gb ram
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  1079. # [21:08] <Mikeysauce> just confusing to me how its specific to chrome, it's fine for firefox
  1080. # [21:10] <JonathanNeal> Windows?
  1081. # [21:10] <Mikeysauce> yes on vista atm
  1082. # [21:11] <Mikeysauce> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6955957/html5-audio-crackle-in-chrome I found that for reference but
  1083. # [21:11] * Joins: sephr (~Eli@c-98-235-63-240.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
  1084. # [21:11] <Mikeysauce> kinda useless for me as a listener
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  1086. # [21:12] <JonathanNeal> or as a vista user
  1087. # [21:13] <JonathanNeal> or as a chrome on vista user at least :D
  1088. # [21:14] <paul_irish> JonathanNeal: ++ thx
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  1090. # [21:14] <paul_irish> Mikeysauce: mp3 or wav make a diff?
  1091. # [21:14] <Mikeysauce> yes, i'm not sure which exactly but it only occurs in one of the audio settings
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  1093. # [21:15] <JonathanNeal> paul_irish: he got it on my stuff too, which is mp3
  1094. # [21:15] <paul_irish> o
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  1102. # [21:22] <xp_prg2> does anyone have good advice or a link to a tutorial on how to stylize a table in ie well?
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  1109. # [21:26] <JonathanNeal> xp_prg2: what do you want to do with it?
  1110. # [21:26] <xp_prg2> put a linear gradient in the header row of the table
  1111. # [21:26] <moo-_-> xp_prg2: check bootstrap 2.0 examples
  1112. # [21:26] <moo-_-> ah
  1113. # [21:26] <moo-_-> ie
  1114. # [21:26] <moo-_-> forgot :(
  1115. # [21:26] <xp_prg2> I can only get the gradient to work in individual th cells
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  1117. # [21:27] <mr_pinc> Anyone know a good app that converts PDFs to a nice HTMl5 viewer
  1118. # [21:27] <mr_pinc> I have an app that needs to run on an iPad but inside a webview
  1119. # [21:27] <mr_pinc> I have 1 right now but it's limited and looks lame
  1120. # [21:27] <JonathanNeal> xp_prg2: ie doesn't have linear gradients.
  1121. # [21:27] <JonathanNeal> you would have to use an svg background
  1122. # [21:27] <JonathanNeal> and that would only work in ie9
  1123. # [21:28] <xp_prg2> I want a pure jquery solution to accomplish this goal
  1124. # [21:28] <xp_prg2> is that possible?
  1125. # [21:28] <moo-_-> xp_prg2: it's IE, which in japanese means no
  1126. # [21:28] <moo-_-> :)
  1127. # [21:28] <moo-_-> depends on IE version
  1128. # [21:29] <moo-_-> ie9?
  1129. # [21:29] <JonathanNeal> xp_prg2: we could write a jquery plugin that adds the linear gradient.
  1130. # [21:29] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@50-0-133-210.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  1131. # [21:29] <JonathanNeal> but in ie8 and less, you could only set two rgba colors.
  1132. # [21:29] <JonathanNeal> because we would be using a proprietary ie filter that might cause other problems.
  1133. # [21:29] <JonathanNeal> In short, linear gradients don't really exist in IE browsers, so whatever we do, it will be hacky.
  1134. # [21:30] <JonathanNeal> xp_prg2: what do you think?
  1135. # [21:30] <moo-_-> xp_prg2: if you want to save yourself from trouble try normal bg images?
  1136. # [21:30] <xp_prg2> wow what do you think of google chrome frame?
  1137. # [21:30] <moo-_-> xp_prg2: I am using it
  1138. # [21:30] <marcocarag> xp_prg2: i missed most of the conversation, but is there a reason you can't use good old tiling backgrounds for i.e.? jquery (or js in general) seems like overkill just for a linear gradient in ie < 9
  1139. # [21:30] <moo-_-> it's the best thing since sliced bread
  1140. # [21:30] <moo-_-> download is just 150 MB or so :(
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  1142. # [21:30] <marcocarag> er, IE, not i.e. damn autocomplete
  1143. # [21:31] <xp_prg2> moo-_- the client must download 150 mb everytime to use google chrome frame?
  1144. # [21:31] <moo-_-> xp_prg2: only for the first time
  1145. # [21:31] <moo-_-> it's non-admin install, so works for every user unless the computer has been locked not to run .exes (like in hospitals)
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  1147. # [21:32] <xp_prg2> once I get google chrome frame, can I do css3 gradients and stuff?
  1148. # [21:32] <moo-_-> xp_prg2: it is using chrome webkit rendering engine
  1149. # [21:32] <moo-_-> basically it is chrome
  1150. # [21:32] <moo-_-> in IE shell
  1151. # [21:32] <JonathanNeal> xp_prg2: google chrome frame is beautiful
  1152. # [21:32] <JonathanNeal> try it
  1153. # [21:32] <xp_prg2> I heart you all
  1154. # [21:33] <JonathanNeal> heart you back, friend.
  1155. # [21:33] <JonathanNeal> do good.
  1156. # [21:33] <xp_prg2> but I also heart a linear gradient in ie using jquery for a table header row
  1157. # [21:33] <xp_prg2> JonathanNeal, I give you permission to make one
  1158. # [21:34] <JonathanNeal> xp_prg2: design belongs in css, don't you think?
  1159. # [21:34] <xp_prg2> I don't mind, just want a beautiful table in ie
  1160. # [21:34] <JonathanNeal> html is the house, css is the paint, javascript is the wiring.
  1161. # [21:34] <moo-_-> JonathanNeal: then, what's IE?
  1162. # [21:35] <JonathanNeal> xp_prg2: build it looking good in chrome and if i'm around i'll help you translate it as gracefully as possible to ie
  1163. # [21:35] <xp_prg2> I did build it in chrome already
  1164. # [21:35] <JonathanNeal> moo-_-: IE is a home built with stuco and partical board, but it's still a home.
  1165. # [21:35] <JonathanNeal> xp_prg2: share the link, let's see it.
  1166. # [21:36] <xp_prg2> its internal :(
  1167. # [21:36] <moo-_-> :)
  1168. # [21:36] <JonathanNeal> xp_prg2: you want external help?
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  1170. # [21:37] <xp_prg2> I could make a quick prototype on jsfiddle, would that be ok?
  1171. # [21:37] <JonathanNeal> yea!
  1172. # [21:37] <JonathanNeal> It will be an educational experience!
  1173. # [21:37] <JonathanNeal> ( you randomly caught me completely free to goof around and help while I'm waiting on something critical at work )
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  1175. # [21:38] <xp_prg2> ok working on it, hold on :>
  1176. # [21:39] <aboudreault> Hi all. I was wondering if there was any other very good library for complex application. rather than using that &*@$ ExtJS
  1177. # [21:39] * Quits: marcocarag (~marcocara@38.117.157.59) (Quit: marcocarag)
  1178. # [21:39] <JonathanNeal> aboudreault: i have no bias except that i think john resig is really really cool.
  1179. # [21:39] <JonathanNeal> consider backbone / underscore.
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  1181. # [21:40] <aboudreault> yeah, I already plan to use backbone... but.. backbone do not have any widget for complex grid etc..
  1182. # [21:40] <aboudreault> it's just a nice lib to build better structured javascript apps..
  1183. # [21:40] <JonathanNeal> aboudreault: does backbone seem friendly enough to write one? Or do you want something out of the box?
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  1185. # [21:41] <JonathanNeal> If those won't work and you "want it now", consider looking at YUI.
  1186. # [21:41] <aboudreault> I see... yes I would prefer to build all in backbone.
  1187. # [21:41] <aboudreault> JonathanNeal, thx
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  1189. # [21:41] <JonathanNeal> YUI and Alloy are extremely powerful and relatively easy to dive into, especially if you already looked at backbone and underscore..
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  1216. # [22:08] <SoulRaven> hi
  1217. # [22:08] <SoulRaven> is it posibile to put images in dropdown select box?
  1218. # [22:09] <keithclarkcouk> SoulRaven: only with CSS
  1219. # [22:10] <SoulRaven> can you give me an example? because i have search and i don't find nothing
  1220. # [22:11] <keithclarkcouk> something like:
  1221. # [22:11] <smplstk> um
  1222. # [22:11] <smplstk> wat
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  1225. # [22:12] <keithclarkcouk> option { background: url(...) 0 0 no-repeat; padding-left: 24px } should do it
  1226. # [22:12] <smplstk> keithclarkcouk: have you actually tried that?
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  1228. # [22:12] <smplstk> because... maybe you should...
  1229. # [22:13] <SoulRaven> but in mater i put a background on the all select box, i want to put images for each Options
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  1231. # [22:14] <smplstk> SoulRaven: you can't really do that... web page components like <select> are somewhat limiting that way.
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  1234. # [22:15] <SoulRaven> so is no solution for that
  1235. # [22:16] <smplstk> SoulRaven: you _could_ fake functionality similar to what you'd get
  1236. # [22:16] <smplstk> with JavaScript
  1237. # [22:17] <SoulRaven> with ul li right?
  1238. # [22:17] <smplstk> ya
  1239. # [22:17] <smplstk> actually, you could prob do it without any javascript at all.
  1240. # [22:17] <smplstk> just pure css
  1241. # [22:18] <SoulRaven> yes, but i want to have the options for autoselect the images when i query the DB
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  1245. # [22:23] <smplstk> SoulRaven: you could use ajax for that.
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  1554. # [22:38] <smplstk> SoulRaven: http://jsfiddle.net/serio/kWV59/
  1555. # [22:38] * smplstk shrugs
  1556. # [22:38] <drublic> divya: yt?
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  1560. # [22:41] <SoulRaven> smplstk: thx:)
  1561. # [22:42] <smplstk> SoulRaven: so you could expand on that
  1562. # [22:42] <xp_prg2> what is the best javascript framework to use, I am confused what the differences are between barebones, yui etc...
  1563. # [22:42] <xp_prg2> can anyone shed some light on that?
  1564. # [22:42] <smplstk> by like, having classes to indicate which images are selected
  1565. # [22:42] <smplstk> and then, if there's a selected image in your DB
  1566. # [22:42] <smplstk> assign that class to said image
  1567. # [22:43] <smplstk> when the page is rendered.
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  1569. # [22:44] <smplstk> xp_prg2: it really depends on what you wish to accomplish
  1570. # [22:44] * Quits: SoulRaven (SoulRaven@89.41.157.171)
  1571. # [22:45] <xp_prg2> well, speed and ease of use for my end users, but also highly modularized and extendible, to make my life easier, would love it if it is could gracefully degrade based on browser
  1572. # [22:46] <smplstk> the end user isn't going to have/need to know what JavaScript framework you're using on your site...
  1573. # [22:46] <smplstk> I guess the simple answer is: jQuery?
  1574. # [22:46] <smplstk> yes, use jQuery... :S
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  1578. # [22:51] <xp_prg2> jquery isn't mvc though right?
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  1580. # [22:51] <JonathanNeal> jquery is not mvc
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  1583. # [22:51] <xp_prg2> JonathanNeal do you have advice on a javascript framework to use and why?
  1584. # [22:51] <JonathanNeal> http://andreehansson.se/the-basics-of-jquery/
  1585. # [22:51] <JonathanNeal> xp_prg2: ^^
  1586. # [22:52] <JonathanNeal> xp_prg2: what is your level of expertise?
  1587. # [22:52] <JonathanNeal> jQuery is great to get you started.
  1588. # [22:52] <xp_prg2> I am out growing jQuery for sure
  1589. # [22:52] <xp_prg2> I have high expertise
  1590. # [22:52] <xp_prg2> as you can see my jsfiddle
  1591. # [22:52] <xp_prg2> only someone with incredible expertise could write that
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  1595. # [22:57] <smplstk> xp_prg2: backbone.js, then?
  1596. # [22:57] <smplstk> You can't just be all like "I need a framework"
  1597. # [22:57] <smplstk> "gimme gimme"
  1598. # [22:57] <bendman> cakephp
  1599. # [22:57] <smplstk> codeignitor!
  1600. # [22:57] * xp_prg2 bends bendman over
  1601. # [22:57] <smplstk> zend framework!
  1602. # [22:57] <bendman> :)
  1603. # [22:57] <smplstk> *insert buzzword framework here*
  1604. # [22:58] <xp_prg2> I am using yii right now, it appears ror is best for automatic code generation
  1605. # [22:59] <moo-_-> real men use microsoft access
  1606. # [22:59] <smplstk> ?eval 'automatic'.replace('tic','gic')
  1607. # [22:59] <bot-t> smplstk: "automagic"
  1608. # [22:59] <xp_prg2> moo-_- real men use csv
  1609. # [22:59] <smplstk> real men use .txt
  1610. # [22:59] <smplstk> OK
  1611. # [22:59] <xp_prg2> I guess I want something that is RAD so I can get things out faster
  1612. # [23:00] <xp_prg2> are there pre-written little widgets I can use?
  1613. # [23:00] <smplstk> rad framework
  1614. # [23:00] <smplstk> ?g rad framework
  1615. # [23:00] <bot-t> smplstk, List of rapid application development tools - Wikipedia, the free ... - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rapid_application_development_tools
  1616. # [23:00] <smplstk> ?cc
  1617. # [23:00] <bot-t> CASE CLOASED >: |
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  1625. # [23:02] <moo-_-> xp_prg2: ExtJS is RAD'dish
  1626. # [23:02] <moo-_-> they have a designer and all
  1627. # [23:02] <kurrent> are you a hipster? there is a plethora of frameworks specifically tailored for hipsters out there
  1628. # [23:02] <xp_prg2> brb, I heard I could use qtDesigner now to make web apps that use js, is that not correct?
  1629. # [23:02] <moo-_-> xp_prg2: not true
  1630. # [23:03] <moo-_-> they are QML apps
  1631. # [23:03] <moo-_-> the language is ecmascript-like, but it's still native
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  1633. # [23:03] <moo-_-> it's still quite solid and amazing piece of technology
  1634. # [23:03] <moo-_-> too bad nokia went with Windows Phone boat
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  1661. # [23:37] <Velmont> 22:56 < moo-_-> too bad nokia went with Windows Phone boat < hear hear... But that's basically what the entirety of people who use IRC would say :P
  1662. # [23:37] <Velmont> Although I've still to find people who say the opposite thing...
  1663. # [23:37] <Velmont> I've got the N9, it's really really well made.
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  1665. # [23:38] <moo-_-> Velmont: it is :)
  1666. # [23:38] <moo-_-> good thing is that they ditched symbian, at least :)
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  1686. # Session Close: Wed Feb 29 00:00:00 2012

The end :)