/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2012-02-29 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Feb 29 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
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  4. # [00:04] <xp_prg2> extjs is proprietary?
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  104. # [02:37] <PPPPPPP> Does anyone know good HTML5 game tutorials?
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  110. # [02:42] <ryanseddon> PPPPPPP: Check h5r gaming section http://www.html5rocks.com/en/gaming
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  187. # [04:18] <grantg> cmw: So I got your emails
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  189. # [04:20] <grantg> so you want to modify qemu I take it?
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  203. # [04:48] <csprite> anyone have experiences/opinions on phonegap v.s titanium
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  217. # [05:14] <JonathanNeal> hello
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  361. # [09:42] <moo-_-> csprite: they have little different purposes. if you do HTML5 you will go with phonegap.
  362. # [09:42] <moo-_-> titanium is not that HTML'ish
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  402. # [10:34] <niftylettuce> divya: do you know any alternative to crossfire or kangoextensions? i don't want to get knee deep in creating my own if something out there already exists. i know of firebreath for plugins, but is there something like that for extensions yet? if not, if u have any name suggestions for a project lmk :)
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  524. # [14:30] <skylamer`> x:)
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  562. # [15:35] <nisci> in layman's terms, how is an ajax application different from one built on websockets?
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  564. # [15:38] <StoneCypher> websockets are actual sockets. they stay open, and have push-pull. ajax is the one-time background loading of a single pull.
  565. # [15:42] <divya> niftylettuce: no i dunno whats that about?
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  567. # [15:46] <nisci> StoneCypher: is it possible to basically mimic the functionality of any websocket application with ajax (even though in a slow/clunky form?)
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  571. # [15:49] <philipvonbargen> nisci: You could try long polling, that way new responses would be sent almost imediately
  572. # [15:51] <StoneCypher> nisci: yep
  573. # [15:51] <andrewjbaker> Also look into Server-Side Events for push.
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  575. # [15:51] <andrewjbaker> Sorry, Server-Sent.
  576. # [15:52] <andrewjbaker> Force of habit. :-p
  577. # [15:52] <andrewjbaker> http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/eventsource/basics/
  578. # [15:52] <andrewjbaker> If you want something that falls back gracefully, take a look at socket.io.
  579. # [15:54] <StoneCypher> there are, in short, a bunch of options
  580. # [15:54] <StoneCypher> generally speaking, websockets aren't baked yet; it's prolly too early to use them outside research projects in my opinion
  581. # [15:55] <nisci> when will they be 'baked'? 2-3 months? 1 year?
  582. # [15:55] <StoneCypher> i am unsure.
  583. # [15:55] <StoneCypher> #whatwg would know.
  584. # [15:56] <andrewjbaker> Just use socket.io... http://socket.io/ ;-)
  585. # [15:56] <StoneCypher> that's probably good advice
  586. # [15:56] <nisci> whatwg = ?
  587. # [15:56] <StoneCypher> there are people wrapping this stuff successfully
  588. # [15:56] <StoneCypher> just use a library
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  614. # [16:25] <sphinxxx> can someone help with ordering the minification/concatenation of js files in the build script?
  615. # [16:26] <sphinxxx> right now it just throws everything together, but that breaks a lot of stuff because my document ready code is probably running before the plugins are declared
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  623. # [16:32] <elkng> I have "#html Cannot send to channel", I dont remember if I was banned or something
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  633. # [16:40] <MSK> Is there any video Slideshow in HTML5?
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  637. # [16:42] <smplstk> MSK: "video Slidehow"
  638. # [16:42] <smplstk> ?
  639. # [16:43] <MSK> smplskk:Video SLideshow
  640. # [16:43] <smplstk> O I C
  641. # [16:43] <MSK> Means
  642. # [16:45] <MSK> I need video slideshow in my page
  643. # [16:45] <MSK> Using HTML5 Shall we do?
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  655. # [17:05] <simenbrekken> Any magic trick to work around pixel rounding for percentage based widths? I've got a segmented bar with widths 20%, 35%, 35% and 20% but apparently it adds up to "almost 100%"
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  664. # [17:15] <pawel__> I've got a css with a bunch of styles with @media only screen and (min-width: 965px) { ... } in the bottom half that have different values for the same styles so that everything in the media query is destop version, and everything before is mobile. But on iphone it shows desktop version. Why?
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  691. # [17:41] <moo-_-> simensen: it's a known problem and all browsers solve it differently
  692. # [17:41] <moo-_-> obs
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  712. # [18:07] <niftylettuce> divya: like a framework for building cross-browser extensions
  713. # [18:07] <niftylettuce> i figured opera crowd might know something about it
  714. # [18:07] <niftylettuce> per advice
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  721. # [18:18] <nisci> hey guys, is there a web framework that is particularly well-poised to work well with websockets? django, pyramid.. rails, or for some other language any thoughts?
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  750. # [18:46] <moo-_-> nisci: django has some websockets message loop adaption
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  752. # [18:46] <moo-_-> nisci: but if I were you I'd check for async frameworks
  753. # [18:46] <moo-_-> twisted for python
  754. # [18:46] <moo-_-> node.js
  755. # [18:46] <moo-_-> also geventlets for python
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  779. # [19:16] <WebDragon> has anyone else around here used https://github.com/xdissent/ievms for proofing in IE over using something like IETester (which is also what's being used in browserling)
  780. # [19:18] <WebDragon> http://coding.smashingmagazine.com/2011/09/02/reliable-cross-browser-testing-part-1-internet-explorer/ doesn't seem to enamored of IETester, and after having tried it myself, while I admit liking the idea, the execution leaves a bit to be desired.
  781. # [19:18] <Armen_> I've found IETester unreliable
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  785. # [19:20] <WebDragon> yeah in addition to being slightly crashprone
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  787. # [19:22] <ryan_tait> i use vm's in windows with no issue.. and you dont need to keep updating them like the article says..my vm's don't expire. Disk space isnt really an argument for most people these days and it is nice to be able to test exactly what some one will see in each environemnt. When I get requests that something isnt working or looking correct I can simply ask what version of windows and IE and then load up the vm and see the exact problem.
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  791. # [19:23] <JonathanNeal> hello
  792. # [19:23] <ryan_tait> hey hey
  793. # [19:23] <WebDragon> the nice thing about this vm solution is the snapshots
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  795. # [19:23] <WebDragon> anything goes agley, and foom, back to first square again
  796. # [19:24] <WebDragon> bit heavy on the install-weight, but I think that could be dealt with -- I have an external USB drive I could clean off and stick them on
  797. # [19:24] <WebDragon> I noticed paul_irish had commented on the thing early on in the 'issues' section, and was hoping to ask him whether he was still using this
  798. # [19:24] <WebDragon> but 10hr idle :)
  799. # [19:24] <paul_irish> .
  800. # [19:24] <WebDragon> doh
  801. # [19:24] <WebDragon> he lives!
  802. # [19:24] <paul_irish> thats what you get for notifying :p
  803. # [19:25] <WebDragon> heya dude :)
  804. # [19:25] <WebDragon> nah I just did /wii to see if you were recently active
  805. # [19:26] <WebDragon> so are you still playing with the vms for IE that xdissent put together the script for ?
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  808. # [19:27] <WebDragon> tried IETester recently to unsatisfying off-key marching band music denouement
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  810. # [19:27] * WebDragon buries a wry chuckle in his coffeemug and sips deeply
  811. # [19:31] * WebDragon slides the carafe of DragonCoffee™ over to paul_irish in case he fell asleep again, or conversely is just too busy at the moment to respond (either way DragonCoffee™ is called for :)
  812. # [19:31] <WebDragon> Ethiopian Yrgacheffe today
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  814. # [19:31] <WebDragon> damn you IE. jquery.multiple-bgs.js no work. PIE.htc no work (it's *possible* I'm DoingItWrong)
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  816. # [19:32] <WebDragon> heya tw2113
  817. # [19:32] <tw2113> hi
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  834. # [19:57] <paul_irish> WebDragon: i have used it .. but right now i favor browserstack
  835. # [19:57] <paul_irish> also they have ie10 in there
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  845. # [20:02] <WebDragon> I wonder how the secure tunnel setup would work in my case, as I have a double-dozen vhosts set up to run localhost-only via shortnames I just add in to /etc/hosts on ::1
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  847. # [20:03] <tw2113> anyone else intrigued by boot2gecko?
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  851. # [20:11] <Marcosc> tw2113: define intrigued? :)
  852. # [20:13] <tw2113> interested to see wherre it goes
  853. # [20:13] <tw2113> willing to try it out
  854. # [20:14] <Pomax> I'm interested to see where it goes, but the PR is nonsense
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  856. # [20:14] <Marcosc> Absolutely :) Hopefully they get the APIs right
  857. # [20:14] <Velmont> tw2113: Nice article about it on LWN.
  858. # [20:15] <Marcosc> Though personally, sucks that they didn't use the W3C Widgets packaging format and instead created their own proprietary one.
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  860. # [20:15] <Marcosc> but I'm bias :)
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  862. # [20:15] <Pomax> proprietary, when it's open, is a bit of a misnomer =)
  863. # [20:16] <Velmont> Well. Fragmenting the hell out of this stuff is bad.
  864. # [20:16] <Velmont> Google doing their own secretsauce, and Mozilla as well.
  865. # [20:16] <Marcosc> It's open, like Microsoft Word is an "open" platform :)
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  867. # [20:17] <Pomax> that made no sense ;)
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  869. # [20:17] <Marcosc> Pomax: you got it :)
  870. # [20:18] <Velmont> When Widgets exist. Admittedly with a bad name, but just call it Installable Web Apps, or something else fancy and it should be good enough.
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  872. # [20:18] * astearns_ is now known as astearns
  873. # [20:19] <Pomax> the downside of widgets being that it's not html, but an xml falvour
  874. # [20:19] <Pomax> *flavour
  875. # [20:19] <WebDragon> if only xml weren't so 'noisy' internally
  876. # [20:19] <Marcosc> Agree… should have been JSON… but they are about the same in complexity
  877. # [20:19] <Marcosc> to author
  878. # [20:20] <Velmont> Pomax: What? It's HTML
  879. # [20:20] <Pomax> here's what I personally find hilarious
  880. # [20:20] <Pomax> http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/b2g/
  881. # [20:20] <Pomax> "Users who want to buy phones, e-readers and game consoles from different manufacturers often need to re-purchase apps for each device."
  882. # [20:20] <Velmont> the tinsy binsy tiny config format is XML, but that's basically 8 lines. -- And it could be changed to take json as well.
  883. # [20:20] <Pomax> next line, "Using HTML5 and the new Mozilla-proposed standard APIs, developers everywhere will be able to create amazing experiences and apps"
  884. # [20:20] <Pomax> so.. what changes? new OS, yet again new model to which to port your app
  885. # [20:21] <Marcosc> heh
  886. # [20:21] <Pomax> I love me some HTML and JavaScript, but claiming it solves the problem of app development is not having been part of the world for the last few years
  887. # [20:22] <WebDragon> LMFAO
  888. # [20:22] <WebDragon> too right
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  891. # [20:22] <Pomax> so that only thing I want to know now is how do I cram this onto my nokia n900
  892. # [20:22] <Pomax> =D
  893. # [20:24] <tw2113> except from what i understand, the B2G "apps" would just be web apps that'd be just fine on a laptop too
  894. # [20:24] <moo-_-> Pomax: not enough power
  895. # [20:24] <moo-_-> in n900, unfortunately
  896. # [20:25] <moo-_-> n9 might run it
  897. # [20:25] <moo-_-> Pomax: what changes is a good question, true
  898. # [20:25] <moo-_-> well
  899. # [20:25] <Pomax> oh come on, the n900 has power =/
  900. # [20:25] <moo-_-> you can hack your phone HTML source code :P
  901. # [20:25] <Pomax> It can run javascript pretty damn fast
  902. # [20:26] <Pomax> I tried to run android on it for a bit. That was not a good experience.
  903. # [20:26] <Pomax> the part where the port could do almost everything, except use the GPS and cellphone functionality was kind of silly
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  908. # [20:29] <moo-_-> Pomax: I am more worried about RAM and io
  909. # [20:29] <moo-_-> javascript jit is not most efficient way to utilize your RAM compared to native ARM code :P
  910. # [20:30] <moo-_-> Galaxy II has what, 768 MB? and dual core
  911. # [20:30] <moo-_-> Pomax: but you are right
  912. # [20:30] <moo-_-> it would be cool :)
  913. # [20:30] <moo-_-> even just to toy around
  914. # [20:30] <Pomax> and the ridiculous term "internet tablet" that nokia gave it will finally be true =D
  915. # [20:31] <WebDragon> I sorta wish Fennec were more flexibly accurate and usable as a testing interface for mobile
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  917. # [20:31] <WebDragon> "for mobile-on-desktop" I mean
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  920. # [20:33] <tw2113> i don't think i can get the latest Fx mobile on my dinodroid
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  932. # [20:48] <Marcosc> Can people take a look at this thread and see if it's something you might want in the Web Platform:
  933. # [20:48] <Marcosc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-dom/2012JanMar/0102.html
  934. # [20:49] <Marcosc> If it's something you think is of value, would really appreciate so support on the list
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  937. # [20:50] * Marcosc looks at paul_irish ;)
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  965. # [21:38] <paul_irish> innnnnnnteresting
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  1046. # [23:11] <Bish> how do i divide a div into 2 parts ( horizontially)
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  1054. # [23:18] <andrewjbaker> We, the #bbg browser-based games channel, are having our 3rd bbgmeetup this coming Saturday. Early details here... http://hashbbg.com/bbgmeetup/2012/02/29/3rd-bbgmeetup.html
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  1059. # [23:24] <sphinxxx> hey paul_irish , for the html5 boilerplate build script, how does it order javascript files when concatenating?
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  1061. # [23:24] <divya> sphinxxx: file name?
  1062. # [23:24] <divya> there is no set order
  1063. # [23:25] <sphinxxx> but for example, i need scripts.js (my custom document ready code) to fire after the plugins, otherwise it will break
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  1066. # [23:26] <sphinxxx> actually it might be alphabetical
  1067. # [23:26] <sphinxxx> anyone know for sure?
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  1072. # [23:28] <divya> yeah thats what i mean sphinxxx
  1073. # [23:28] <divya> it is alphabetical.
  1074. # [23:28] <divya> you should put your plugins in libs folder
  1075. # [23:28] <sphinxxx> does the folder path name count?
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  1078. # [23:28] <sphinxxx> they are in the libs folder
  1079. # [23:29] <divya> huh they are still concatinating?!
  1080. # [23:29] <divya> we recently changed the folder view removing mylibs
  1081. # [23:29] <divya> and having only libs
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  1084. # [23:30] <divya> are u using the latest one?
  1085. # [23:32] <divya> k i remember i changed it to only concat if its not minimized should probably exclude the whole libs folder
  1086. # [23:32] <divya> https://github.com/h5bp/ant-build-script/blob/master/build.xml#L572
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  1099. # [23:49] <bakers> Is a user/pass in a URL valid? https://user:pass@www.domain.com/
  1100. # [23:49] <bakers> It works in all browsers except IE8/IE9
  1101. # [23:53] <sphinxxx> divya: how can i check the version of my build script?
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  1103. # [23:56] <divya> sphinxxx: we dont version it, but it was separated from h5bp so the project is here now and the tools should be all newer versions like here https://github.com/h5bp/ant-build-script/blob/master/config/default.properties#L103
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  1105. # [23:56] <sphinxxx> i'm pretty sure i haven't the latest one .. also i did notice builds are taking like 45 seconds now, and was around 9 seconds when i had the older version
  1106. # [23:56] <sphinxxx> i have* the latest one
  1107. # [23:57] <sphinxxx> i am supposed to include the libs js files in my index.html right?
  1108. # [23:57] <sphinxxx> or is there something i write that includes the whole folder
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  1111. # Session Close: Thu Mar 01 00:00:00 2012

The end :)