/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2012-03-01 / end

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# Session Start: Thu Mar 01 00:00:00 2012
# Session Ident: #html5
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# [00:09] <divya> sphinxxx: i would recommend you try the new one.
# [00:10] <divya> Also if you have images being optimized then it would take time
# [00:10] <divya> so if you want smthing quick then maybe just ant build text would be sufficient
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# [00:55] <divya> anybody know or working with directv.com here?
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# [03:15] <lifechamp> how is GPU assistance for alpha overlays on the various browsers? i'm asking to see if i should keep my alpha etc controls overlaied on my flash video in flash, or move it to html5 now, or wait still.
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# [03:51] <paul_irish> would someone like to implement this? https://github.com/h5bp/html5please/issues/143
# [03:51] <socialhapy> ★ Issue #143 on html5please, reported by sideshowbarker (18h, 35m ago): Fragment IDs should scroll to section/article
# [03:52] <paul_irish> i'd love help with that
# [03:53] <andrewjbaker> Would someone like to RT this? https://twitter.com/#!/andrew_j_baker2/status/174981376246943744
# [03:53] <socialhapy> ★ Tweet from andrew_j_baker2: Heads up #HTML5 #gamedev peeps! The #bbg (browser-based games) IRC channel on Freenode's next online meetup: http://t.co/1K55CYPu ★ http://bit.ly/xuwKin
# [03:53] <andrewjbaker> ^^
# [03:54] <paul_irish> rt'd
# [03:54] <andrewjbaker> Thx mate.
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# [03:58] <jon8> Do you know what this icon is classified as among web and graphic designers .. and more importantly, what font and size was used to produce this. Here's the image: http://i.imgur.com/UhhUp.png
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# [04:32] <lord_D> is it possible to get the color codes of a webpage over an http request?
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# [04:33] <locuse> hi. i'm starting an overhaul of our company website & the dev technology behind it. i'm starting to come up to speed on HTML5. i was asked to demo an 'accordion' in both Flash (yes, working hard to make THAT go away), and html5. digging around for tutorials, examples and such -- I see lots of jQuery/CSS demos, and a bunch that use html5 too.
# [04:33] <locuse> looking at the source for a couple of them i have a really basic, possibly dumb, question -- what make it "HTML5" as opposed to "just" jQuery/CSS? I'm missing something obvious.
# [04:34] <miketaylr> i can't imagine how an "html5" accordion would look or behave any different from an "html4" one
# [04:35] <johnkpaul> why is jQuery/CSS _not_ HTML5? there is no HTML accordian widget
# [04:35] <miketaylr> it's basically HTML(5!), JS, and CSS
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# [04:36] <miketaylr> locuse: just pick the js/css one you like best and call it html5 ;)
# [04:36] <locuse> Well, the confusion for me started with this article -- http://css-plus.com/2011/08/create-accordions-with-css3-html5-and-jquery/.
# [04:36] <locuse> miketaylr: funny
# [04:36] <locuse> you in marketing? ;-)
# [04:36] <miketaylr> hehe
# [04:37] <miketaylr> so this article is calling <details> an html5 accordion
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# [04:37] <miketaylr> i guess....
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# [04:37] <miketaylr> but you'd need some JS/CSS to make it a) work everywhere and b) look decent anyways
# [04:38] <locuse> got me. all i'm SURE of is that the article (like bunches of others out there ...) seem to USE the moniker "html5".
# [04:38] <locuse> pretty much as ... marketing. it seems.
# [04:38] <miketaylr> but tbh, the <div class="accordion"> is just as much html5 as <details>
# [04:38] <miketaylr> locuse: yeah, just a buzzword at this piont
# [04:40] <locuse> Hm. E.g., when I look at this http://omega.developmentgeeks.com/, see a big orange "5" logo, and read "Omega is a responsive, mobile-first base theme leading the way in Drupal theming that supports HTML5, CSS3 and mobile, fluid, 720, 960 and 1200px (and custom) grids out of the box" ... at the moment it just makes me scratch my head.
# [04:40] <locuse> Like I said I'm missing something. Waiting for a lightning bolt to strike ...
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# [04:43] <miketaylr> just think of HTML5 as "open web stuff"
# [04:43] <locuse> Huh. Looking up there ^^^, I wandered over to "http://www.html5rocks.com/en/why" and read "... HTML5 technologies—JavaScript, CSS, and HTML— ...". Is "HTML5" just the terminology for the supserset of all three?
# [04:44] <StoneCypher> locuse: those are all community in-phrases. for example, "responsive" is a tip of the hat to "this design will scale itself, including re-layout where appropriate, for weird screen sizes."
# [04:44] <StoneCypher> no
# [04:44] <StoneCypher> html5 is the group of recommendations that make up the successor to html4
# [04:44] <StoneCypher> some people use it in a sloppy way
# [04:44] <StoneCypher> that doesn't mean they're right.
# [04:45] <StoneCypher> by group of recommendations, i mean like "the new columns module, and the new selectors module, and so on"
# [04:48] <miketaylr> none of which are part of html5
# [04:48] <locuse> StoneCypher: Ah, "new" stuff. That's certainly easy enuf to grok. Nice if more of these "helpful tutorials" were a bit more to the point, but whatever. For a rank beginner to wacky world of HTML5, but an old hand at doing it the old-school, long, hard way in PHP ... what's a good place to start for an overview? Don't need hand-holding, but would *love* some guidance in cutting through the BS to get to what IS right ...
# [04:48] <locuse> miketaylr: arg! ???
# [04:49] <locuse> reading through some of these sites, my BS detector is pegged "all the way to 11!"
# [04:49] <miketaylr> haha
# [04:49] <miketaylr> i think you're on the right track
# [04:50] <miketaylr> here's a good broad definition, "HTML5 in the broad sense covers many different technologies at varying degrees of standardization and adoption."
# [04:50] <locuse> i can HEAR the tap-dancing all the way over here ...
# [04:50] <miketaylr> :D
# [04:51] <miketaylr> locuse: see also http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/introduction.html#is-this-html5?
# [04:51] <paul_irish> http://webkitmemes.tumblr.com/post/18533853814/jimmy-mcmillan-reads-surfin-safari
# [04:51] <paul_irish> :)
# [04:52] <miketaylr> locuse: but people go nuts sometimes and call anything on this http://platform.html5.org/ "html5"
# [04:53] <miketaylr> but it doesn't matter much, in the end
# [04:54] <locuse> miketaylr: the former looks promising. thanks. "Web Hypertext Application Technology Working Group" even sounds official-esque. Not that I particularly trust organizaed groups of any kind .. being old and cynical, and all ...
# [04:54] <locuse> the best sentiment from the latter is ... "Fork me!"
# [04:54] <miketaylr> :)~
# [04:55] <locuse> So, in the end, I just do the same stuff i've always done, bascially, call it HTML5, and charge more for it, right?
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# [04:56] <miketaylr> yeah just be sure to change the DOCTYPE
# [04:56] <tw2113> whoa, it's the miketaylr
# [04:56] <miketaylr> (not that it would make a difference)
# [04:56] <miketaylr> sup tw2113
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# [04:56] <locuse> miketaylr: that whatwg site is a good start, thanks!
# [04:57] <tw2113> mastering procrastination again
# [04:57] <locuse> with all my digging i failed to come across it :-( clearly, "Lookin' for love in all the wrong places ..."
# [04:58] <miketaylr> too much crap has better SEO
# [04:59] <locuse> note to self -- start at the bottom of the search results, and work backwards ...
# [05:00] <tw2113> my butt has great SEO....everyone wants to kick it
# [05:00] <xp_prg> tw2113 I feel your pain
# [05:00] <tw2113> stop mooching my SEOs
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# [05:01] <locuse> are "all" the current-release browsers "100% HTML5" compatible yet? (I'll figure out what the really MEANS later ...)
# [05:01] <tw2113> i don't think they're even 100% html4 yet
# [05:02] <locuse> tw2113: heh. that's encouraging.
# [05:02] <tw2113> the semantic tags you can get working just fine for likely any browser you encounter
# [05:02] <tw2113> in terms of styling
# [05:03] <tw2113> the APIs will need feature detection and fallbacks if important
# [05:04] <locuse> ok, so my REAL question then -- if "you" were designing/deploying a public-facing production-site "RealSoonNow(tm)", would you use it?
# [05:04] <tw2113> i use the tags with zero issue
# [05:04] <tw2113> i need to explore more with the other stuff
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# [05:04] <tw2113> but there isn't much that stops me
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# [05:05] <locuse> so, kindof-sortof-possibly-maybe-probably, eh?
# [05:05] <tw2113> BUT most of my freelance stuff doesn't use a lot of advanced bits like localstorage/video/audio/webgl/etc
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# [05:06] <tw2113> it really depends on what parts you're looking at
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# [05:09] <lord_D> can i visit a webpage without downloading it?
# [05:11] <locuse> tw2113: alright, thanks for the comments. leaving with a reinvigorated sense of cynical suspicion. which, in my book, is progress!
# [05:12] <tw2113> i say use it, do it, leave the dinobrowsers in the dust
# [05:13] <locuse> i'm JUST interested in latest-releases. if that doesn't include, say, IE v(whatever), then really, you'r right -- boo-hoo.
# [05:13] <tw2113> i barely support IE7 lately
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# [05:14] <tw2113> but you do need to find a way to provide fallback for the more advanced stuff because even the latest browsers don't always support the same stuff to the saem degree
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# [05:14] <locuse> personally, i'm happy just supporting Firefox. maybe Chrome. not sure the 'powers that be' feel the same ... yet.
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# [05:15] <locuse> tw2113: my immediate challenge is to figure out where that line -- between "advanced stuff" and the rest -- gets drawn.
# [05:15] <tw2113> think of it this way, article, nav, section, footer, header etc, i've had work in IE6
# [05:15] <tw2113> with a small touch of js
# [05:16] <tw2113> caniuse.com is a great resource locuse
# [05:16] <locuse> IE*6*? shudder.
# [05:17] <locuse> caniuse +1! honestly, SEO sucks ... major fail finding NONE of this stuff :-{
# [05:17] <tw2113> just saying, that stuff is easy as heck to get support in
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# [05:21] <locuse> that's a good site. seems firefox+chrome gets me a fairly wide swath of support ...
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# [05:22] <tw2113> keep site traffic in mind
# [05:23] <tw2113> or if it's for personal stuff
# [05:23] <tw2113> screw em if they can't handle it
# [05:23] <locuse> tw2113: sure. it's for biz. STILL screw 'em if the can't ;-)
# [05:23] <tw2113> your call :)
# [05:23] <locuse> heh
# [05:24] <locuse> great. stuff to read. tablet + beer - time. l8r all.
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# [15:02] <Armen_> goodmorning.
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# [15:04] <hex20dec> Armen_, Morning.
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# [16:08] <figcap> Hi, I'm wondering how I can avoid the "jumps" in a jump link (internal link on the same page). I have a window with navigation that only shows 1 block at a time, the rest of the blocks is hidden through "overflow: hidden", but whenever I want to navigate to another "block", the content is displayed properly, but it does jump to the top of my screen. How can I avoid this jumping behavior ( I know Javascript has return false, but this jus
# [16:09] <marcocarag> bind to the click event, and preventDefault: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/DOM/event.preventDefault
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# [16:10] <figcap> marcocarag: already tried that
# [16:11] <figcap> it also just ignores my anchor link, doesnt move to target
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# [16:15] <moo-_-> figcap: use scrollTo() + preventDefault
# [16:15] <figcap> moo-_-:
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# [16:16] <figcap> that's what I want to avoid using :)
# [16:16] <moo-_-> figcap: you need to manually ask offset and then jump into it
# [16:16] <moo-_-> figcap: OR
# [16:16] <figcap> is there no simple way to just ignore the jumping behaviour, but just go directly to the desired content
# [16:16] <moo-_-> maybe DOM tree is not visually updated when you set display: block
# [16:16] <figcap> kinda seems like there should be a better solution
# [16:16] <moo-_-> do window.href update in setTimeout() callback
# [16:16] <moo-_-> after 10 milliseconds
# [16:17] <moo-_-> that's often issue with cases like this
# [16:17] <moo-_-> you don't know element position "yet"
# [16:17] <moo-_-> in your Javascript code
# [16:17] <moo-_-> and thus it fails
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# [16:18] <figcap> moo-_-: "maybe DOM tree is not visually updated when you set display: block", where would I be setting it to block? It is a block by default
# [16:18] <moo-_-> aha
# [16:19] <moo-_-> so the content where you jump is visible already?
# [16:19] <moo-_-> then there should be no issues :<
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# [16:19] <moo-_-> aha
# [16:19] <moo-_-> maybe I didn't understand your problem
# [16:19] <figcap> moo-_-: the content is just too big for my window (on purpose)
# [16:20] <figcap> imagine a menu on the left and a content window on the right. The menu on the left has the navigation to jump to different blocks of content according to corresponding ids
# [16:20] <moo-_-> but it does not jump to correct place?
# [16:21] <figcap> it does
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# [16:21] <figcap> but because it is a link to an anchor on the same page, the screen position also jumps to the anchor
# [16:21] <figcap> while I want my box to stay in the same place (instead of sticking to the top of my screen)
# [16:22] <figcap> so basically I want to be able to jump in between different content sections
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# [16:24] <figcap> without having my "box" jump to the top of my screen. I've done this in the past by using stuff like jQuery's scrollTo() and setting return false after the scrollTo action to avoid the nasty side-effect ,,, I however would like a solution that did not needs yet another jquery plugin (have enough of those already)
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# [17:25] <tktiddle> is tere a good sit to show html5 support?
# [17:26] <tktiddle> Is there something like quirksmode for the html5 stuff?
# [17:26] <jetienne_> tktiddle: http://caniuse.com ?
# [17:26] <tktiddle> cool jaz
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# [19:21] <JonathanNeal> hi
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# [19:29] <danielfilho> hi there Jon :)
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# [19:39] <danielfilho> nice hangout, paul_irish :)
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# [19:46] <paul_irish> thx danielfilho
# [19:46] <JonathanNeal> hi danielfilho, how are you doing?
# [19:47] <danielfilho> just fine Jon, what about you?
# [19:47] <JonathanNeal> Pretty good, pretty good. Working around some jquery ui issues at work, hoping to carve out more time for projects.
# [19:47] <JonathanNeal> What are you working on these days?
# [19:48] <danielfilho> nice :)
# [19:48] <danielfilho> I'm finishing a presentation about Page Visiblity for SampaJS
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# [19:50] <JonathanNeal> ala http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Performance/PageVisibility/Default.html ?
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# [19:52] <JonathanNeal> wow, just viewed that page in ie9 and got the "Your browser does not currently support the Page Visibility API, an emerging specification in the Web Performance Working Group." Someone needs to use html5please :D
# [19:53] <danielfilho> I'll cite this, but my demo between the presentation is a little bit more simple, using a video that pauses. There's going to be a few people from a tv content website, so I want to show it to them :)
# [19:53] <danielfilho> Funny, though!
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# [19:55] <JonathanNeal> I actually didn't understand what the demo was doing. So I look forward to learnin.
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# [20:03] <danielfilho> JonathanNeal: when you change the tab, it changes that "vital line" on the header
# [20:04] <danielfilho> showing how long you spend when doc.hidden was true and false
# [20:04] <danielfilho> *and when was false
# [20:04] <JonathanNeal> oh reeeaaaaly.
# [20:04] <JonathanNeal> Cool.
# [20:05] <danielfilho> well, "vital line" wasn't a good name to give to it, but I think you get it :D
# [20:05] <JonathanNeal> danielfilho: would something similar to this be triggered with onblur/onfocus events?
# [20:06] <danielfilho> kind of, but onblur/onfocus happens every time you blurs of focus the page
# [20:06] <danielfilho> the page visibility api, you can change the application but, if the page is still visible on the browser, it stills as document.hidden === false
# [20:07] <danielfilho> like, you can have a music player running and still working on your code, with the browser on the background
# [20:07] <danielfilho> but when you change the tab, minimize or lock your screen, it stops ;)
# [20:07] <danielfilho> (or give the true value for document.hidden)
# [20:08] <JonathanNeal> i guess i don't see the difference between that and onfocus,onblur
# [20:08] <danielfilho> wait a sec, meeting. back in 15 so I explain better :)
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# [20:09] <JonathanNeal> thanks!
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# [20:16] <Jon47> JonathanNeal I think what he means is that you can change *applications* and the active tab in the browser (no longer the active application) is still not hidden according to the page visibility API, whereas changing applications would fire the onblur event for the window. so if the tab is the active tab in the browser but the browser is not the currently focused application on the desktop, then the browser page visibility would be
# [20:16] <Jon47> i'm guessing.. never played with page visibility myself
# [20:16] <Marcosc> Anyone got an opinion about: http://www.w3.org/community/coremob/
# [20:16] <Marcosc> good thing? bad thing?
# [20:17] <paul_irish> good
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# [20:17] <paul_irish> developer feedback on mobile browsers
# [20:17] <paul_irish> is good
# [20:18] <JonathanNeal> Jon47: whenever i left the tab, page visibility became hidden.
# [20:18] <Marcosc> absolutely agree, but I'm worried that there are few devs represented
# [20:18] <JonathanNeal> So I failed to see how it was different than onfocus/onblur.
# [20:18] <paul_irish> well hypothet that should improve
# [20:18] <paul_irish> facebook certainly wants a lot of devs there
# [20:18] <Marcosc> Anyone from this list joined?
# [20:18] * Marcosc has
# [20:19] <paul_irish> from #html5 ?
# [20:19] <Marcosc> yeah
# [20:19] <JonathanNeal> I try to join all of those but it never lets me.
# [20:19] <Marcosc> JonathanNeal: if you PM your details, I can email the w3c for you
# [20:19] <Marcosc> see what is going on
# [20:20] <Marcosc> There have been issues with ppl joining in the past
# [20:20] <Marcosc> but I thought they had fixed those
# [20:20] <paul_irish> brianblakely hangs here. boaz and rwaldron too
# [20:20] <Marcosc> ok, be good to have more ppl from here represented
# [20:20] <JonathanNeal> Marcosc: will do.
# [20:21] <Marcosc> Right now, I see a lot of the same old guys in suits sitting around the table
# [20:21] <danielfilho> JonathanNeal: I'm back… will try to make the long story short
# [20:21] <JonathanNeal> Thank you for helping to explain it to me, danielfilho :D
# [20:23] <danielfilho> you have an onblur event if you click out the browser, but you don't get a hidden===true if you click out the browser, only if the current page is not visible through the browser's viewport, like, changing the tab and minimizing
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# [20:23] <danielfilho> no problem, I like to share the little I know :)
# [20:23] <danielfilho> there's some good reading here, at the w3c draft: http://www.w3.org/TR/2011/WD-page-visibility-20110602/
# [20:24] <StoneCypher> anyone in here speak a right to left language, such as arabic or hebrew? i want to ask opinions about text layout.
# [20:24] <boaz> wha dup
# [20:24] <StoneCypher> boaz: may i /msg?
# [20:24] <boaz> StoneCypher: sure
# [20:24] <boaz> I speak hebrew
# [20:25] <boaz> kind of crappy tho, and I never read it
# [20:25] <boaz> esp ever online
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# [20:31] <JonathanNeal> danielfilho: got it, so it's about actual visibility.
# [20:31] <Marcosc> StoneCypher: maybe just ask?
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# [20:35] <danielfilho> exactly :)
# [20:36] <danielfilho> and there's also a few states, as pretender, preview, visible etc. And you can listen to the visibilitychange event :)
# [20:36] <JonathanNeal> nifty.
# [20:37] <danielfilho> it's nice, like, if you want to stop fetching data when the page isn't on the user's actual visibility. Or update only your <title> with some info, instead of the whole dom.
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# [20:37] <danielfilho> :)
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# [20:37] <StoneCypher> Marcosc: the reason i don't just ask in channel is so that if there are multiple people i can get distinct opinions
# [20:38] <Marcosc> StoneCypher: fair enough :)
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# [21:10] <paul_irish> anyone have access to ie10pp5?
# [21:10] <paul_irish> the new new one from yesterday
# [21:10] <paul_irish> i have a friend that wants the mshtml.dll
# [21:11] <JonathanNeal> Do I need anything special to get it?
# [21:11] <JonathanNeal> I'm in Windows.
# [21:12] <JonathanNeal> I'm downloading the preview from Feb 29th
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# [21:13] <JonathanNeal> Installing now, I suppose that means I can get it to you, paul_irish, if you still want it.
# [21:14] <skylamer`> paul irish do u know when chrome will have a 'nested restiore' ? :)
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# [21:15] <skylamer`> i mean , when a session want to be restored but in that session there're other session for 'restoring' and its only restoring the last one, the others are being 'missed'
# [21:16] <JonathanNeal> neato, it even gave me a product key, no idea what that's for.
# [21:16] <paul_irish> JonathanNeal: there was a dev preview from yesterday
# [21:16] <paul_irish> but no worries if thats a lot of effort
# [21:16] <paul_irish> (i think it is.)
# [21:17] <paul_irish> skylamer`: thats some crazy shit
# [21:17] <JonathanNeal> No, it's installing presently, paul_irish.
# [21:17] <paul_irish> skylamer`: that is when you use an extension like sessionbuddy
# [21:17] <skylamer`> may be :), but in firefox its working
# [21:17] <JonathanNeal> You'll get it when the download/install is done.
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# [21:18] <paul_irish> skylamer`: since there is no "restore page" in chrome i dont think nested restore would even be neccessary
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# [21:18] <skylamer`> yea, i know
# [21:18] <skylamer`> just asked if it will be available soon, or even [possible to do :)
# [21:20] <skylamer`> go to look in that 'sessionBuddi'
# [21:21] <skylamer`> it will make it maybe:)
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# [22:05] <LucaS05> hi i've an html proper question
# [22:05] <LucaS05> how do you write your html? I use dreamweaver but i don't know if it respects the standards. for example the doctype how do you choose it when starting a new document and why choose one or another? thanks
# [22:05] <xp_prg2> luca505 use vi
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# [22:06] <LucaS05> you've a link?
# [22:06] <xp_prg2> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vi
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# [22:09] <bendman> finally found the internet. stupid vpn.
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# [22:10] <bendman> question... is it possible to create a javascript stack visualizer like the one for python here: http://people.csail.mit.edu/pgbovine/python/tutor.html#mode=edit
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# [22:12] <bendman> trying to create a jsfiddle-like environment (or possibly js plugin) where you can watch for leaks and test garbage collection methods
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# [22:23] <astearns> divya: ping
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# [22:29] <xp_prg2> is there a modernizer chat room?
# [22:29] <JonathanNeal> how long till the current chrome beta will be pushed to stable?
# [22:30] <xp_prg2> JonathanNeal did you get a chance to look at my ie table header gradient problem? :>
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# [22:30] <JonathanNeal> xp_prg2: hook me up with the jsfiddle link again!
# [22:31] <xp_prg2> http://jsfiddle.net/EKjqG/
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# [22:32] <paul_irish> xp_prg2: modernizr questions here
# [22:33] <xp_prg2> ok thanks paul who is irish
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# [22:37] <paul_irish> K UR welcome
# [22:38] <JonathanNeal> xp_prg2: in ie you say?
# [22:38] <xp_prg2> ya
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# [22:42] <JonathanNeal> REALLY? http://i.imgur.com/7nWcY.png
# [22:42] <JonathanNeal> That's rediculous.
# [22:42] <Ms2ger> rid-
# [22:42] <JonathanNeal> xp_prg2: once this ie10 install is done i'll check it out.
# [22:44] <xp_prg2> ok, can ie10 go back to older ie versions to see what it looks like?
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# [22:44] <Jon47> xp_prg2 from what I've seen, it claims to do so, but it's not perfect emulation
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# [22:45] <xp_prg2> Jon47 are you good at modernizer?
# [22:45] <Jon47> good at it?
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# [22:56] <bendman> I wish using something like wordpress (vs building a custom one) didn't feel like such a copout
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# [23:00] <jonathantneal> okay
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# [23:01] <JonathanNeal> Okay...
# [23:01] <JonathanNeal> So I finished installing IE10.
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# [23:01] <JonathanNeal> And ... umm ... ummm
# [23:01] <Armen_> did it explode?
# [23:01] <JonathanNeal> It deleted all of my software.
# [23:01] <JonathanNeal> And installed Windows 8.
# [23:01] <Armen_> that qualifies as exploding in my book
# [23:01] <JonathanNeal> Yes, it exploded.
# [23:02] <JonathanNeal> But I have that new mshtml.dll file I bet!
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# [23:04] <bendman> wow, just discovered the "toggle element state" thing in chrome. pure genius.
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# [23:07] <JonathanNeal> can someone share that imgur i shared a few minutes ago?
# [23:07] <JonathanNeal> my coworkers have come in to see what happened to my pc.
# [23:08] <bendman> http://i.imgur.com/7nWcY.png
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# [23:09] <JonathanNeal> oh we failed to notice it said windows 8
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# [23:15] <bendman> your messing with the future. that requires rebooting
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# [23:27] <JonathanNeal> i guess ie10 == win8
# [23:27] <xp_prg2> are you kidding?
# [23:28] <xp_prg2> I will never use windows again!!!!!!!! I use vmware or aws that is it
# [23:28] <xp_prg2> I use linux
# [23:29] <JonathanNeal> xp_prg2: haha, well, i'm sorry.
# [23:29] <JonathanNeal> kinda halted everything i was doing at work.
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# [23:31] <JonathanNeal> but now i'm running windows 8, so yay.
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# [23:33] <JonathanNeal> and i have the mshtml.dll file for y'all.
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# [23:41] <paul_irish> necolas: lets move the 999px chat here
# [23:42] <JonathanNeal> 999px?
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# [23:45] <paul_irish> necolas:
# [23:45] <paul_irish> Over at the HTML5 Boilerplate project we're taking a look at this.
# [23:45] <paul_irish> So far, Scott's test page indicates this is non-deterministic browser behavior but not a reliable performance difference.
# [23:45] <paul_irish> https://github.com/h5bp/html5-boilerplate/issues/1005
# [23:45] <socialhapy> ★ Issue #1005 on html5-boilerplate, reported by davidmurdoch (1h, 52m ago): Look into updating .ir to use a "new and improved" method
# [23:45] <paul_irish> We're still investigating...
# [23:45] <paul_irish> But to put this into perspective, removing one script tag from your head would have, at a minimum, around 200x more impact than this reflow optimization.
# [23:45] <paul_irish> sgty?
# [23:45] <miketaylr> anyone know why caniuse refers to Opera "10.0-10.1" instead of just 10?
# [23:46] <miketaylr> weird
# [23:46] <necolas> paul_irish: yeah, but the ipad 1 stuff is the claimed issue. and if old mobile browsers can die with box-shadow, maybe this will be a problem
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# [23:47] <paul_irish> "can die with box-shadow" ?
# [23:48] <necolas> yeah there were bugs with box-shadow on iOS iirc, where it would really affect scrolling
# [23:48] <paul_irish> o
# [23:48] <paul_irish> right
# [23:48] <paul_irish> a box-shadow on ipad1 probably has more impact than this
# [23:49] <necolas> paul_irish: oh it was that webkit bug that got fixed - http://nicolasgallagher.com/css-drop-shadows-without-images/#comment-14916
# [23:49] <necolas> so yeah
# [23:50] <chee> maybe just include a comment in the css saying 'praps if your target browser is an iPad 1 you might want to use 100%' and link to the issue
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# [23:51] <chee> seeing as by your own research it's possibly slower for everybody else
# [23:51] <chee> snort snort
# [23:52] <aerotwist> it's definitely not clear cut as far as I can see so far
# [23:52] <aerotwist> (too many fars there)
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# [23:53] <paul_irish> it might just join the old-slow devices with unoptimized webkit pile of bad things to do
# [23:53] <paul_irish> incl css gradients and box shadow
# [23:53] <aerotwist> right
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# [23:54] <scottkellum> Hey, Scott here
# [23:54] <aerotwist> but even with that said on my iOS devices I'm not seeing much to distinguish either approach yet
# [23:55] <chee> hey!
# [23:55] <chee> oops
# [23:55] <chee> wrong window i am soz
# [23:55] <necolas> scottkellum: hey scott!
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# [23:56] <paul_irish> yay scottkellum
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# [23:56] <paul_irish> hi hi
# [23:56] <paul_irish> thx for coming
# [23:56] <paul_irish> didnt want to make it seem like i'm fighting :)
# [23:57] <aerotwist> hey Scott :)
# [23:57] <scottkellum> No worries. I totally understand this needs to be hammered out before it enters a project that effects so many users
# [23:57] <paul_irish> i just commented at zeldies blog
# [23:57] <paul_irish> It may just join the ranks of css gradients and box shadows as things to avoid on old hardware before things like the webkit-box-shadow perf fixes went in. http://wkb.ug/22102
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# [23:58] <paul_irish> scottkellum: also there was a YUI perf talk recently that had similar content to seeley's video
# [23:58] <paul_irish> rly god
# [23:58] <scottkellum> I submitted a pull request to Compass a couple days ago where we are discussing this as well: https://github.com/chriseppstein/compass/pull/743
# [23:58] <socialhapy> ★ Pull request on compass by scottkellum (2d, 8h ago): Refactor hide-text
# [23:58] <paul_irish> oo
# [23:58] <paul_irish> exciting :)
# [23:59] <chriseppstein> confirm
# [23:59] <aerotwist> Scott, just out of curiosity, is it just iPad 1 for which you've seen it improve performance?
# [23:59] <paul_irish> :D
# [23:59] <paul_irish> I LOVE A CSS PARTY
# Session Close: Fri Mar 02 00:00:00 2012

The end :)