/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2012-03-02 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri Mar 02 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
  3. # [00:00] <aerotwist> @paul_irish nerdy
  4. # [00:00] <paul_irish> damn straight
  5. # [00:00] <aerotwist> high fives all round
  6. # [00:00] <scottkellum> Yes, particularly iPad 1
  7. # [00:01] <paul_irish> Hmmm so scottkellum i was thinking of a test page of about 1000 elements with .ir on them
  8. # [00:01] <paul_irish> in webkit you could look at the Reflow duration
  9. # [00:01] <scottkellum> But optimization should not be device specific. This should effect everything and I noticed issues in the speed of the iPad 1.
  10. # [00:01] <paul_irish> which should be the measurement we're interested in here, if it has a cost to rendering
  11. # [00:01] * Quits: digitalfiz (~fiz@unaffiliated/digitalfiz) (Quit: [Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/])
  12. # [00:01] <paul_irish> well.. reflow (layout) and paint
  13. # [00:01] <paul_irish> both
  14. # [00:02] <paul_irish> of course we can't instrument ipads with that
  15. # [00:02] <paul_irish> so there's that
  16. # [00:02] <paul_irish> (This is using the Timeline tool... that is)
  17. # [00:02] <andrewjbaker> aerotwist, re: console.log() to file, I think someone also suggested employing the logging functionality for arrays as exhibited by Eclipse in the past too. So you gradually expand the elements you want to see, split into groups: 0..9, 10..19, etc.
  18. # [00:03] <JonathanNeal> okay
  19. # [00:03] <JonathanNeal> so this is a performance issue with text indent?
  20. # [00:03] <paul_irish> essentially
  21. # [00:03] <paul_irish> i suppose on ipad we could measure +new Date; from <head> to window.onload
  22. # [00:04] <paul_irish> but that captures so much lifecycle that we're not concerned with
  23. # [00:04] <JonathanNeal> does this +new Date thing have anything to do with that?
  24. # [00:04] <necolas> what's the concern about inline elements? when do those ever get IR-ed?
  25. # [00:04] <paul_irish> ++ i would never expect to see inlines get IR'd
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  28. # [00:05] <chriseppstein> maybe I was wrong about that concern. seems like our existing mixin doesn't handle it
  29. # [00:05] <necolas> in the end, NIR is the only robust method. but if you need IE7 support, these old ways are..the way
  30. # [00:06] * Quits: keithclarkcouk (~keithclar@5ad54d06.bb.sky.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  31. # [00:06] <JonathanNeal> NIR?
  32. # [00:06] <necolas> although i cant remember the last time i used IR
  33. # [00:06] <JonathanNeal> What do these acronyms stand for?
  34. # [00:06] <necolas> JonathanNeal: http://nicolasgallagher.com/css-image-replacement-with-pseudo-elements/
  35. # [00:06] <JonathanNeal> ____ image replacement.
  36. # [00:06] <necolas> Nash IR
  37. # [00:06] <JonathanNeal> i had seen that article.
  38. # [00:07] <necolas> afaik, works with block-level HTML fallback content. works with images off. the whole deal
  39. # [00:07] <necolas> but in the meantime, if this positive text-indent has benefits...
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  42. # [00:08] <JonathanNeal> and what's the issue with the Keller method?
  43. # [00:08] <JonathanNeal> Kellum
  44. # [00:09] <paul_irish> well
  45. # [00:09] <paul_irish> we are looking at if it has a performance advantage when it comes to reflow/paint
  46. # [00:09] <necolas> scottkellum: couldn't you use -100% instead?
  47. # [00:09] <paul_irish> anecdotal evidence suggests worthwhile performance gain on iPad1
  48. # [00:09] <scottkellum> No, the idea is to move the content away from the content
  49. # [00:10] <JonathanNeal> scottkellum is here, well that helps clear things up.
  50. # [00:10] <scottkellum> With negative values, the content is moving towards the container.
  51. # [00:10] * Quits: gasbakid (~gasbakid@41.96.77.232) (Remote host closed the connection)
  52. # [00:10] <JonathanNeal> I see a performance difference on my pc @ http://lab.pgdn.us/hidden-text-performance/
  53. # [00:11] <paul_irish> JonathanNeal: try http://dl.dropbox.com/u/39519/temp/hiddentextperf.html
  54. # [00:11] <scottkellum> A positive values starts the content past the view, and it continues to flow away from the element. 100% starts the content JUST off screen
  55. # [00:11] <paul_irish> its the same but switched order
  56. # [00:11] <JonathanNeal> remember my pc exploded earlier with windows 8, so i apologize for seeming so out of it.
  57. # [00:11] * Quits: giulivo (~giulivo@dynamic-adsl-94-37-231-208.clienti.tiscali.it) (Quit: bye)
  58. # [00:11] <JonathanNeal> testing
  59. # [00:11] <necolas> scottkellum: works for me with -100%
  60. # [00:11] <chriseppstein> paul_irish: good catch
  61. # [00:12] <scottkellum> yes, it works. Start adding a lot more text :)
  62. # [00:12] <JonathanNeal> Don't see much difference between those paul_irish
  63. # [00:12] <necolas> scottkellum: i did
  64. # [00:12] <JonathanNeal> but won't the overflow of text show up?
  65. # [00:12] <JonathanNeal> with -100%?
  66. # [00:12] <necolas> scottkellum: oh, the image is so dark i didnt see the text over it
  67. # [00:13] <chriseppstein> I got it: color: transparent. #boom #done :P
  68. # [00:13] * Quits: rickibalboa (~ricki@84.19.108.75) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  69. # [00:13] <JonathanNeal> ha, i have no way to test anything locally, everything is gone. jsfiddle it is.
  70. # [00:14] <JonathanNeal> chriseppstein: and on child elements with that overwritten?
  71. # [00:14] <JonathanNeal> so what's wrong with indent 100%?
  72. # [00:14] <necolas> chriseppstein: doesn't work properly
  73. # [00:14] <JonathanNeal> Does it work in IE?
  74. # [00:14] <necolas> chriseppstein: e.g. when you have a shit-tonne of text in the containers
  75. # [00:14] <paul_irish> scottkellum: you gonna be at sxsw/
  76. # [00:15] <chriseppstein> i can't have nice things
  77. # [00:15] <scottkellum> paul_irish yes
  78. # [00:15] <necolas> chriseppstein: do you still use IR?
  79. # [00:15] <paul_irish> \o/ awesome. let's hang out
  80. # [00:15] <scottkellum> paul_irish Sweeet, lets do it.
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  82. # [00:16] <chriseppstein> necolas: we do this: http://compass-style.org/reference/compass/typography/text/replacement/#mixin-hide-text
  83. # [00:16] <chriseppstein> (click view-source on that mixin)
  84. # [00:16] <JonathanNeal> wouldn't child elements with nowrap off also break this?
  85. # [00:16] * Joins: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113)
  86. # [00:17] <JonathanNeal> Perhaps that's an unrealistic concern.
  87. # [00:17] * Joins: deasy (~deasy@85.201.207.128)
  88. # [00:17] <necolas> chriseppstein: sure, but do _you_ actually still use IR on sites?
  89. # [00:17] <chriseppstein> tbh, I never do this except on an element with nested content
  90. # [00:17] <JonathanNeal> Text was showing up for me with text-indent: 100%, I had to kick it to text-indent: 200%
  91. # [00:18] <chriseppstein> necolas: yes
  92. # [00:18] <necolas> oh
  93. # [00:18] <paul_irish> scottkellum: also. pointed someone to treesaverjs lately and he is so happy i did. just found Seasons so i'll pass that along
  94. # [00:18] * Joins: MistuhKurtz (~ColKurtz@216.86.217.155)
  95. # [00:18] <chriseppstein> dammit I meant I only do IR on an element with simple content like text -- never any nested elements except inline ones
  96. # [00:19] <JonathanNeal> Do you guys see it? @ http://jsfiddle.net/EWSmB/
  97. # [00:19] <JonathanNeal> The L from "Lorem" is showing.
  98. # [00:19] <JonathanNeal> oh ... it's also kicking the page over.
  99. # [00:20] <JonathanNeal> I guess with IR you have to specify a width?
  100. # [00:20] <scottkellum> jonathanNeal: you need to define a width for the - element
  101. # [00:20] <necolas> JonathanNeal: http://jsfiddle.net/EWSmB/1/
  102. # [00:21] <necolas> it's just poking out coz there's no width for overflow to clip
  103. # [00:21] <JonathanNeal> still shows up for me, necolas.
  104. # [00:21] <JonathanNeal> yea
  105. # [00:21] <JonathanNeal> oh, it's still escaping though.
  106. # [00:21] <necolas> the nice thing about NIR, is you can get away with only setting a height
  107. # [00:21] <chriseppstein> on ipad1 why not this: & { color: transparent; & * {display: none; }}
  108. # [00:21] <JonathanNeal> but I see it fixed with http://jsfiddle.net/EWSmB/2/
  109. # [00:22] <necolas> chriseppstein: coz color transparent has it's own problems
  110. # [00:22] <JonathanNeal> and text shadow would still show, right?
  111. # [00:22] * Quits: koggdal (~koggdal@c213-89-119-74.bredband.comhem.se) (Quit: koggdal)
  112. # [00:22] <JonathanNeal> you'd see its invisible shadow!
  113. # [00:22] <necolas> good point
  114. # [00:22] * Quits: venom00ut (~venom00@unaffiliated/venom00) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  115. # [00:23] <chriseppstein> on ipad1 why not this: & { color: transparent; text-shadow: none; & * {display: none; }}
  116. # [00:23] <JonathanNeal> what's the current method again?
  117. # [00:23] * Joins: pinage404 (~pinage404@APuteaux-651-1-146-147.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr)
  118. # [00:23] <scottkellum> chriseppstein: the goal is to find a universal solution. The symptom shows up on the iPad 1 but the problem is everywhere. Really like the color:transparent thing thoguh.
  119. # [00:23] <necolas> scottkellum: if you had a lot of text in the element, you might still get a very long box drawn offscreen
  120. # [00:23] <JonathanNeal> chriseppstein: at that point, just use clip on the children
  121. # [00:23] <JonathanNeal> chriseppstein: eg & * { clip: rect(0 0 0 0); position: absolute; } "{
  122. # [00:23] <JonathanNeal> :P
  123. # [00:24] <chriseppstein> seems like all this moving stuff is a huge hack. we want to hide the text. so hide it :)
  124. # [00:24] <JonathanNeal> how do people normally use this? with a css background image?
  125. # [00:24] <chriseppstein> JonathanNeal: is clip more performant than display none?
  126. # [00:24] <scottkellum> necolas: very true, the box has the potential to still be big but the chances of it being smaller than 9999px are quite good.
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  128. # [00:25] <JonathanNeal> scottkellum: true, as long as you're not IRing something with nested children, which .. I'm guilty of doing in the past.
  129. # [00:26] * Quits: marcocarag (~marcocara@38.117.157.59) (Quit: marcocarag)
  130. # [00:26] <JonathanNeal> but even then, hopefully smaller than 9999
  131. # [00:26] <scottkellum> necolas: If the text were longer than 9999px then even bigger problems would occur with the old method, text would start to run into the box
  132. # [00:26] <necolas> JonathanNeal: im gonna roll NIR into the toolkit since it's IE8+ :)
  133. # [00:26] * Quits: bribroder (~bribroder@unaffiliated/bribroder) (Remote host closed the connection)
  134. # [00:26] <necolas> scottkellum: yep
  135. # [00:26] <JonathanNeal> the old method was what? and worked in what?
  136. # [00:27] <necolas> JonathanNeal: it's in h5bp
  137. # [00:27] <JonathanNeal> yea ... my computer is all sorts of sad.
  138. # [00:27] <JonathanNeal> Treat me with a handicap.
  139. # [00:27] <JonathanNeal> that direction: ltr; is wise too.
  140. # [00:27] <necolas> tbh, im surprised the original technique didn't positively indent text like this. pretty much every other variant used that concept (but did it with padding etc)
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  144. # [00:29] <scottkellum> necolas: they might have had to deal with browsers that didn’t support white-space
  145. # [00:29] <necolas> i suppose image carousel's are death to ipad 1
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  147. # [00:29] <scottkellum> With out white-space: nowrap the second word will land in the element
  148. # [00:30] <JonathanNeal> .ir { direction: ltr; overflow: hidden; text-indent: 100%; white-space: nowrap; } .ir * { display: none; } ?
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  150. # [00:31] <necolas> scottkellum: yeah
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  154. # [00:32] <JonathanNeal> whaddaya think of the combo suggestion above, necolas, scottkellum?
  155. # [00:33] <necolas> JonathanNeal: yeah that's what it'll be if we switch method
  156. # [00:33] <JonathanNeal> will the line height still need to be adjusted?
  157. # [00:34] <JonathanNeal> for display inline block i would imagine so.
  158. # [00:34] <chriseppstein> scottkellum: when you guys figure out what's the best answer can you ping the compass issue and let me know if it's good to go, or if there's caveat, etc?
  159. # [00:34] <chriseppstein> I need to get back to work
  160. # [00:35] <scottkellum> I need to run as well
  161. # [00:35] <JonathanNeal> you could font-size 0 to, to reduce the drawing too.
  162. # [00:35] <chriseppstein> no hurry ;)
  163. # [00:36] * Parts: Viceroy (~ViceroyPu@76.9.202.25) ("Leaving")
  164. # [00:36] <scottkellum> jonathanneal, I like it but it needs to include no-js.
  165. # [00:36] <JonathanNeal> scottkellum: what is js about what i said?
  166. # [00:36] <scottkellum> gtg, later. wish I could stay.
  167. # [00:37] <paul_irish> o.o
  168. # [00:37] <JonathanNeal> .ir { direction: ltr; font: 0/0 serif; overflow: hidden; text-indent: 100%; white-space: nowrap; } .ir * { display: none; }
  169. # [00:37] <scottkellum> sorry, not reading it right. I need time to play with it. worrie about screen readers with display none.
  170. # [00:37] <JonathanNeal> well, talk more later.
  171. # [00:37] <scottkellum> lecture already started though :(
  172. # [00:38] <paul_irish> :)
  173. # [00:38] <paul_irish> bye scottttt
  174. # [00:38] <JonathanNeal> clip: rect(0 0 0 0); position: absolute; will make it screenreader kind.
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  177. # [00:38] <JonathanNeal> I would opt for that before using :before or :after, necolas, imho
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  180. # [00:38] <necolas> for h5bp, we cant use :before
  181. # [00:39] <necolas> but for h5bp-ui, i can
  182. # [00:39] <JonathanNeal> what i meant to say was, i prefer this method over :before and :after anyway, regardless of compatibility.
  183. # [00:39] <necolas> why? it's worse
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  185. # [00:40] * paul_irish thinks we can drop ie6 from h5bp now
  186. # [00:40] <paul_irish> oh. ie7
  187. # [00:40] <paul_irish> my b
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  189. # [00:44] * paul_irish is now known as paul_irish_
  190. # [00:44] <Pomax> can we make MS send a leter to its customers going "we would like to know whether you think we should top supporting old versions of IE" and then if only 1% responds "keep it", axe the older ones
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  195. # [00:47] <necolas> JonathanNeal: i dont see the benefits over NIR
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  198. # [00:49] <JonathanNeal> nir is :before,:after?
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  201. # [00:52] <necolas> JonathanNeal: i thought you read the article? it uses :before
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  205. # [00:55] <JonathanNeal> I did ... I don't know how to explain this but in Windows 8 I'm having a lot of trouble using the computer.
  206. # [00:56] <JonathanNeal> So, when we reference these things, I can't quickly double check and verify so my brain is like totally scattered.
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  214. # [01:05] <davidmurdoch> did I miss the .ir party?
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  216. # [01:06] <JonathanNeal> davidmurdoch: no way man, let's talk!
  217. # [01:06] <xp_prg2> JonathanNeal did you figure anything out?
  218. # [01:07] <davidmurdoch> what's been discussed so far?
  219. # [01:07] <Bish> how many people are using <ie8 ?
  220. # [01:07] <Bish> percentage?
  221. # [01:07] <Bish> of all users, including ff,opera,chrome etc etc
  222. # [01:08] <davidmurdoch> 923456712 +- 923456712 :-p
  223. # [01:08] <JonathanNeal> xp_prg2: well ... about that ie test.
  224. # [01:09] <JonathanNeal> Bish: not sure, i hope we get to the point where we can drop ie<8
  225. # [01:09] <JonathanNeal> But, personally, I still don't like the :before method
  226. # [01:10] <Bish> i hope we get to the point where we drop microsoft
  227. # [01:10] <davidmurdoch> The before methods won't work in IE<8, right?
  228. # [01:10] * davidmurdoch has dropped IE7 in my day job.
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  230. # [01:10] <Bish> well, anyways, im going to bed, have a good night
  231. # [01:10] <Bish> guess u dont have night, anyways have a nice day
  232. # [01:11] <markkes> Bish, i would say about 5% ish?
  233. # [01:11] <Bish> markkes, okay good, since my pages displays fine ( even the graphs printed by javascript ) , but some stuff like... color:green; for prices does not work
  234. # [01:11] <Bish> im to lazy for 5 % :D
  235. # [01:11] <JonathanNeal> davidmurdoch: that is correct.
  236. # [01:12] <markkes> But i dont know how reliable http://gs.statcounter.com/ is
  237. # [01:12] <markkes> Nice stats tho
  238. # [01:12] <davidmurdoch> jonathanneal: since I just jumped in I wasn't sure if we were talking about necola's image replacement method. ??
  239. # [01:12] <JonathanNeal> My concern has nothing to do with what is possible, it's at the very minimum, preferencial.
  240. # [01:12] <davidmurdoch> *necolas
  241. # [01:13] <JonathanNeal> Being that it's hard for me to switch applications, I can't tell you much about the different methods, but necolas could.
  242. # [01:13] <JonathanNeal> http://nicolasgallagher.com/css-image-replacement-with-pseudo-elements/
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  245. # [01:16] <JonathanNeal> It just seems very indirect.
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  311. # [02:25] <krisbulman> any updates on whether the Kellum Method (replacement of FIR) actually has any real performance improvement?
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  320. # [02:41] <JonathanNeal> krisbulman: there is a style testing tool out there, right?
  321. # [02:41] <JonathanNeal> You could test it.
  322. # [02:41] <JonathanNeal> I'll test it with you.
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  324. # [02:42] <JonathanNeal> I'm interested in knowing what font: 0/0 serif; text-indent: 100%; looks like on all browsers.
  325. # [02:42] <krisbulman> 3 hours ago, paul_irish_ mentioned " come by #html5 on freenode -- we're banging this out now."
  326. # [02:42] <JonathanNeal> if that improves the kellum method then i say we go for THAT.
  327. # [02:43] <krisbulman> i was interested in the results of his testing
  328. # [02:43] <JonathanNeal> Someone else could tell you if there were numbers. I don't recall any.
  329. # [02:44] <JonathanNeal> krisbulman: http://andy.edinborough.org/CSS-Stress-Testing-and-Performance-Profiling
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  331. # [02:45] <krisbulman> he mentions an optimal way to test it here: https://github.com/h5bp/html5-boilerplate/issues/1005#issuecomment-4272406
  332. # [02:45] <socialhapy> ★ Issue #1005 on html5-boilerplate, reported by davidmurdoch (4h, 53m ago): Look into updating .ir to use a "new and improved" method
  333. # [02:46] <JonathanNeal> i'll goto http://lab.pgdn.us/hidden-text-performance/
  334. # [02:46] <JonathanNeal> and run the bookmarklet.
  335. # [02:47] <JonathanNeal> Well, that threw an error. You wanna try?
  336. # [02:47] <krisbulman> yep, sec
  337. # [02:47] <JonathanNeal> The CSS Stress Test bookmarklet is on th elink I shared just a little ways up.
  338. # [02:48] <JonathanNeal> It's throwing an error like "Cannot read property 'parentNode' of undefined"
  339. # [02:48] <JonathanNeal> If your test works, share the results.
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  341. # [02:49] <krisbulman> Removing .animated 2 0 saves 28.01ms 8.33ms
  342. # [02:49] <krisbulman> blare, sec, will sketch it
  343. # [02:49] <krisbulman> skitch*
  344. # [02:50] <krisbulman> https://skitch.com/krisbulman/8gpc7/hidden-text-performance-testing
  345. # [02:51] <JonathanNeal> k
  346. # [02:51] <JonathanNeal> so old is slower than new?
  347. # [02:52] <krisbulman> looks to be that way
  348. # [02:52] <JonathanNeal> Good.
  349. # [02:54] <JonathanNeal> https://gist.github.com/1954805
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  355. # [02:57] <JonathanNeal> Will that work?
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  358. # [02:59] <JonathanNeal> would you test that as well, krisbulman?
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  375. # [03:29] <JonathanNeal> Here's the page to test http://jsfiddle.net/CpewT/show/
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  377. # [03:32] <tertl4> what is this?
  378. # [03:32] <tertl4> cats rotating?
  379. # [03:34] <JonathanNeal> Yes.
  380. # [03:35] <tertl4> cool
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  382. # [03:35] <tertl4> can u make it spin really fast?
  383. # [03:36] <tertl4> like 6000rpm
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  385. # [03:36] <tertl4> idk
  386. # [03:36] <tertl4> is it becnhmark?
  387. # [03:36] <JonathanNeal> http://jsfiddle.net/CpewT/1/
  388. # [03:36] <tertl4> what is it telling me
  389. # [03:36] <JonathanNeal> This gives you some instructions, tertl4
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  391. # [03:37] <JonathanNeal> We want to know which one of these is more performant.
  392. # [03:37] <tertl4> i think they are identical
  393. # [03:38] <tertl4> but it also feels like an optical illusion machine
  394. # [03:38] <tertl4> twilight zone
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  396. # [03:38] <JonathanNeal> but in testing they might reveal to be causing a performance impact.
  397. # [03:38] <JonathanNeal> http://jsfiddle.net/CpewT/2/ ( maybe this will help the testing )
  398. # [03:39] <tertl4> i dont see a difference
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  401. # [03:40] <tertl4> what would be hit, the quality?
  402. # [03:40] <tertl4> blurring?
  403. # [03:40] <tertl4> spinning?
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  405. # [03:40] <JonathanNeal> http://jsfiddle.net/CpewT/3/show/
  406. # [03:40] <JonathanNeal> there, i added the test bookmarklet for you :D
  407. # [03:41] <tertl4> i see that u like mvc
  408. # [03:42] <tertl4> i choose mvc too
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  411. # [03:44] <clouder`grr> what if you make the cat spin so fast, it looks like it's spinning backwards
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  414. # [03:45] <tertl4> interesting JonathanNeal
  415. # [03:45] <tertl4> border-radius huh
  416. # [03:46] <JonathanNeal> Yeap, taking off for a while. See you guys later.
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  459. # [04:53] <SrPx> hey, canvasContext.scale(0.5,1) is not working :/ no error, nothing.
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  480. # [05:42] <AnthonyCat> How can I check for contextmenu support, other than a /Firefox/.test(navigator.userAgent) ?
  481. # [05:50] <paul_irish_> 'oncontextmenu' in document.body
  482. # [05:50] <paul_irish_> aka look at modernizr's tests
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  486. # [06:04] <JonathanNeal> hello
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  542. # [07:55] <paul_irish_> my my http://www.html5accessibility.com/HTML5ASS/
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  544. # [07:56] <grantg> lol
  545. # [07:57] <paul_irish_> sup grantg
  546. # [07:57] * paul_irish_ is now known as paul_irish
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  549. # [07:57] <grantg> I herd you liek shitty lcd blur emulation, so https://github.com/grantgalitz/GameBoy-Online/commit/7b4b8e42f5f153486703db70cebc41f8fcc55a1f
  550. # [07:57] <socialhapy> ★ Commit on GameBoy-Online by grantgalitz (31m, 20s ago): Emulating LCD blur of real gameboys by doing manual blending with the last internal frame generated.
  551. # [07:58] <paul_irish> hahahahah whoa
  552. # [07:58] <grantg> So you get that blur emulation that an actual gameboy does
  553. # [07:58] <paul_irish> that's fantastic.
  554. # [07:58] <grantg> Since a gameboy has a really really shitty lcd
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  556. # [07:59] <grantg> paul_irish: I wonder if V8 optimizes for that right shift 1
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  558. # [07:59] <grantg> That's a trick for lossy divide by two
  559. # [07:59] <grantg> Also to force to int
  560. # [08:00] <AnthonyCat> Thanks paul_irish_.
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  562. # [08:03] <grantg> I probably should allow the user to specify a blend % between 0 and 50
  563. # [08:03] <grantg> Rather than assume 50
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  566. # [08:09] <SrPx> why I'm losing my PNG's alpha channel when using <img src="myimg.png">?
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  568. # [08:10] <grantg> What browser?
  569. # [08:10] <grantg> Please don't say IE
  570. # [08:10] <grantg> Or I'll kill you
  571. # [08:11] <grantg> personally
  572. # [08:11] <SrPx> firefox man
  573. # [08:11] <grantg> heh
  574. # [08:11] <SrPx> 10.0.2
  575. # [08:11] <grantg> you shouldn't
  576. # [08:11] <SrPx> weird
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  1049. # [18:23] <necolas> matjas paul_irish divya: strange bug https://github.com/h5bp/html5-boilerplate/issues/1006
  1050. # [18:23] <socialhapy> ★ Issue #1006 on html5-boilerplate, reported by sethenmaleno (31m, 6s ago): @font-face fonts showing unexpected font-weight & margins/paddings
  1051. # [18:24] <necolas> come across it before?
  1052. # [18:25] <divya> bold maybe just fake bolding
  1053. # [18:25] <divya> coz of the font that is used
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  1056. # [18:27] <divya> necolas: the margin/padding is same
  1057. # [18:27] <divya> not an issue
  1058. # [18:27] <divya> its only the bold?
  1059. # [18:28] <divya> which seems like a font-face issue
  1060. # [18:28] <divya> he should set font-weight to bold.
  1061. # [18:28] <divya> so as to not fake bold
  1062. # [18:28] <divya> not normal.
  1063. # [18:28] * divya comments.
  1064. # [18:28] <necolas> yeah only the bold
  1065. # [18:29] <necolas> he's not faking bold
  1066. # [18:29] <divya> no by setting font-weight to normal
  1067. # [18:29] <divya> and using it on h2
  1068. # [18:29] <divya> browsers are, by spec, forced to fakebold
  1069. # [18:29] <necolas> he's already set font-weight normal in the font-face block
  1070. # [18:29] <divya> because h2 has default font-weight as bold
  1071. # [18:29] <divya> if he wants it to be used for bold either he should set the font-weight descriptor in @font-face to bold
  1072. # [18:29] <necolas> yeah, all headings do. but firefox is the only one being strange about it
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  1074. # [18:30] <divya> no even opera.
  1075. # [18:30] <divya> only safari and chrome likely not do it.
  1076. # [18:30] <divya> oh they do do it but its not that different
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  1080. # [18:35] <necolas> divya: actually, it just seems that some browsers cannot handle bolding that font-face properly
  1081. # [18:36] <necolas> chrome won't do anything even if you explicitly set the font-weight to bold or normal
  1082. # [18:36] <necolas> same with opera
  1083. # [18:37] <divya> do you have a fiddle?
  1084. # [18:37] <divya> i have one, lemme dig it up
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  1088. # [18:40] <necolas> divya: setting font-weight:bold in the @font-face block actually reduces the weight of the font in chrome
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  1092. # [18:41] <divya> yeah thats the point.
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  1094. # [18:41] <divya> it doesnt apply the fake bold
  1095. # [18:41] <necolas> divya: i dont think this is an h5bp issue, just a general one to do with browsers and the lack of different weight fonts in his @ block
  1096. # [18:42] <divya> yeah its not h5bp issue at all
  1097. # [18:42] <divya> thats what i mean
  1098. # [18:42] <necolas> yeah but you said "or use font-weight: bold on the @font-face descriptor"...which doesn't work
  1099. # [18:42] <divya> what doesnt work?
  1100. # [18:42] <divya> if you want to clarify please go ahead and say so
  1101. # [18:43] <necolas> using font-weight:bold on the @ block doesnt work
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  1103. # [18:43] <divya> but what is "not work" does it normalize the rendering across the browsers or not is the question no?
  1104. # [18:44] <necolas> no, it doesnt
  1105. # [18:44] <necolas> firefox stays ultra-bold, chrome drops down to "normal"
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  1108. # [18:46] <divya> necolas: http://jsfiddle.net/nimbu/wcBmD/15/
  1109. # [18:47] <divya> i hope that shows the difference.
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  1112. # [18:47] <JonathanNeal> hi
  1113. # [18:47] <divya> opera seems to have the nearest normal behaviour here.
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  1119. # [18:57] <astearns> hey divya - my question yesterday was on font-weight:bold in @font-face. I was just wondering if you had any reason not to do it (since you went with h1->normal in html5please)
  1120. # [18:57] <astearns> sounds like you're OK with it :)
  1121. # [18:57] <divya> astearns: ohh because I am using the link from google straight.
  1122. # [18:57] <divya> so it does UA sniffing and serves only the right type :/
  1123. # [18:57] <astearns> hmm - should be something in the API that lets you choose the font-weight for the rule
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  1125. # [18:57] <divya> OHH is there?
  1126. # [18:58] * divya has never checked
  1127. # [18:58] <astearns> haven't either - if not there should be
  1128. # [18:58] <divya> haha no astearns http://www.google.com/webfonts#QuickUsePlace:quickUse/Family:
  1129. # [18:59] <divya> clearly the single main reason for crappy web fonts.
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  1131. # [18:59] <divya> oh wait
  1132. # [18:59] <divya> sorry bad link :(
  1133. # [18:59] <divya> astearns: http://www.google.com/webfonts#QuickUsePlace:quickUse/Family:Erica+One
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  1136. # [19:01] <astearns> even if the link doesn't give you the proper rule, you can duplicate the @font-face rule the link gives you and change the font weight. Then the font gets used for both normal and bold
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  1140. # [19:02] <divya> astearns: yeah but it gives the @font-face rule depending on the browser you use
  1141. # [19:02] <divya> so it only returns a woff font in it for opera/ff/chrome
  1142. # [19:02] <divya> and a .eot for IE
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  1144. # [19:02] <astearns> ah, that's the part I was missing. Thanks!
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  1164. # [19:35] <JonathanNeal> This is the right channel for HTML5 and Friends questions? Okay, what episode of Friends was based on a plot point from another NBC television show, Mad About You?
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  1223. # [20:45] <tertl4> can someone explain to me .net nnuke?
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  1232. # [20:50] <Pomax> whoo, done with http://processingjs.nihongoresources.com/test/spritesB
  1233. # [20:51] <Pomax> now to start work on the level editor web page.
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  1281. # [21:31] <xonecas> o/
  1282. # [21:32] <xonecas> paul_irish: when you have a chance I would like your feedback on https://github.com/h5bp/server-configs/issues/46
  1283. # [21:32] <socialhapy> ★ Issue #46 on server-configs, reported by klaemo (1d, 41m ago): Node.js config
  1284. # [21:33] <xonecas> just to make sure you agree with the changes sugested there
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  1286. # [21:39] <mdel> paul_irish: curious... are you on #teamSASS
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  1291. # [21:46] <CharlesBroughton> Hello ther! Does someone have a second to spare to help me brainstorm a way to work around a known browser issue with pages? ex: A footer that should be "at the foot" of a document, I have it doing this so far.. but larger pages go UNDER the footer, and I need some ideas on how to fix this.
  1292. # [21:47] <xonecas> CharlesBroughton: http://ryanfait.com/sticky-footer/ or just google sticky footer for more implementations
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  1294. # [21:48] <xonecas> with that implementations, the footer will always be at the bottom, but it will get pushed down if the content is larger than the window
  1295. # [21:48] <CharlesBroughton> xonecas: Hmm, interesting; I've not seem the trick of negative bottom margins, I think that's exaclty what mine was missing.
  1296. # [21:48] <xonecas> great :-)
  1297. # [21:50] <CharlesBroughton> xonecas: Erm.. .crap, that kills my nice shadowing effects :(
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  1299. # [21:51] <xonecas> CharlesBroughton: play around with it, and read up on more implemtations, you'll find a way
  1300. # [21:52] <CharlesBroughton> xonecas: Yeah, I'm looking into it right now... not sure I'll find a good way to do it unfortunately; the way I've done the effects... bleh. Sometimes I wish browsers just ... worked, or listened to w3c; either way (doesn't everyone?)
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  1303. # [21:53] <CharlesBroughton> xonecas: BLEGH, the same problem I had last time!
  1304. # [21:53] <CharlesBroughton> xonecas: Now my "container" is 100% height (minimum).... which DOESN'T include the footer or header height :/
  1305. # [21:53] <CharlesBroughton> So the page is now 100% + 100px + 120px minimum :(
  1306. # [21:54] <CharlesBroughton> Whatever happened to CSS expressions? Are they still detested worse than inline javascripts, or are they fine now?
  1307. # [21:55] <CharlesBroughton> IE: min-height: {100% - 220px} or whatever the syntax was.
  1308. # [21:55] <CharlesBroughton> Is that still "works in 2 / 100 browsers" ?
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  1314. # [22:04] <Ms2ger> calc()
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  1333. # [22:26] <devongovett> divya: still need me? Here I am! :)
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  1350. # [22:58] <scottkellum> CharlesBroughton: If you need to use CSS expressions or calc I highly recommend you use a preprocessor. I am not a fan of expressions/logic in CSS itself and it can dramatically hurt compatibility and performance.
  1351. # [22:58] <paul_irish> mdel: yes i'm talking to chris eppstein about sass 3.2 which is gonna be AWESOMEMEMEME
  1352. # [22:58] <paul_irish> mdel: stylus has some advantages now but 3.2 will make up most that ground
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  1354. # [22:59] <scottkellum> paul_irish: Sass 3.2 is a whole lot of awesome.
  1355. # [22:59] <mdel> paul_irish: I've been using LESS for a few years, I figured it might be time to check out the other side of the fence
  1356. # [22:59] <paul_irish> xonecas: https://github.com/h5bp/server-configs/issues/46 looks fine to me. keep going. i suck at node so i can't offer much
  1357. # [22:59] <socialhapy> ★ Issue #46 on server-configs, reported by klaemo (1d, 2h ago): Node.js config
  1358. # [22:59] <paul_irish> mdel: do it.
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  1360. # [23:02] <mdel> paul_irish: yeah we have one of our devs using it right now for comparison... at some level, working with sass is nearly the same
  1361. # [23:03] <mdel> i personally would miss implicit mixins, but that might go away after a few hours of @includin'
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  1363. # [23:04] <paul_irish> anyone remember how to leave messages for people with irc services?
  1364. # [23:04] <tw2113> ?tell paul_irish hi
  1365. # [23:04] <tw2113> damn
  1366. # [23:04] <tw2113> .tell
  1367. # [23:04] <paul_irish> no like with nickserv
  1368. # [23:04] <tw2113> ah
  1369. # [23:04] <paul_irish> https://toxin.jottit.com/freenode_memoserv_commands :)
  1370. # [23:05] <scottkellum> mdel: try @extend .selector — It adds to the class instead of re-writing all the contents of the selector. Much more efficient than implicit mixins.
  1371. # [23:05] <tw2113> whoa....my firefox affiliate link total went from 16 to 168
  1372. # [23:07] <tw2113> check that, 207 :D
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  1398. # [23:36] <crivera> how can you make an input box where the cursor starts in the middle, then as you type the text starts to fill in the input box
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  1400. # [23:37] <nFFF> Probably going to need js for that crivera ;p
  1401. # [23:38] <crivera> k
  1402. # [23:38] <nFFF> dynamically update the text margin-left
  1403. # [23:38] <nFFF> as you enter shit
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  1405. # [23:40] <Graister-> why not text-align: center on the input?
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The end :)