/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2012-03-09 / end

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# Session Start: Fri Mar 09 00:00:02 2012
# Session Ident: #html5
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# [00:11] <nobitanobi> I am testing this out: http://html5doctor.com/demos/geolocation/geolocation-getcurrentposition-example.html -- And in Firefox it points me to a place I am not. Works in Chrome.
# [00:11] <nobitanobi> Anyone has any clue?
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# [00:13] <JonathanNeal> nobitanobi: did Firefox ask you if you would share your location?
# [00:14] <nobitanobi> yes
# [00:14] <danielfilho> gotta go! see y'all
# [00:14] <JonathanNeal> see ya!
# [00:14] <nobitanobi> and in Chrome, I get a good location
# [00:14] <nobitanobi> the one I am
# [00:14] <JonathanNeal> anyone here have experience putting fonts into <canvas> ?
# [00:14] <nobitanobi> in Firefox, I get a location where I was like a month ago ?
# [00:14] <nobitanobi> >O
# [00:14] <JonathanNeal> nobitanobi: weird!
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# [00:47] <Jon47> geolcation.. it's all pretty cutting edge, wouldn't be at all surprised if there were tons of bugs
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# [00:59] <grantg> hey miketaylr, I took your request to remove the window.opera checks
# [00:59] <grantg> though Opera 11.61 now can't run it
# [00:59] <grantg> Latest stable according to the update checker in opera
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# [01:00] <grantg> also thanks for the opera gradient additions
# [01:00] <grantg> that overrides the slower to load svg stuff
# [01:01] <grantg> that opera used to fallback to
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# [01:04] <grantg> That window.opera check seemed too hacky, if I re-add a check, I'll make a pre-flight to see if it really is busted
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# [01:11] <chovy> when will the browsers support json object stores? like localStorage but more mongodbish, where we could store a json object locally.
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# [01:13] <grantg> just json stringify it
# [01:13] <grantg> I store json for the real time clock for my emulator in local storage
# [01:13] <grantg> *store in json format
# [01:13] <chovy> that works i guess. I was thinking about being able to do find() or something on a collection like you would w/ mongodb
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# [01:18] <xp_prg2> hi all, what is the best way to do like a busy timer icon?
# [01:18] <xp_prg2> after a person pressed the submit function?
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# [01:27] <chovy> xp_prg: how about replace the submit button with a spinner icon?
# [01:27] <chovy> or at least disable the button.
# [01:29] <xp_prg> chovy but what is the standard way to tell the user the browser is busy doing something?
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# [01:31] <chovy> xp_prg: i don't think t here is a standard.
# [01:32] <chovy> If you're doing an ajax post of a form, I would definitely disable the submit button until the success handler fires. That will keep it people from double-clicking on it and submitting twice.
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# [01:49] <_zoggy_> i have a question about the ant-build-script for h5bp, wanting to make a modification to it
# [01:50] <_zoggy_> https://github.com/h5bp/ant-build-script/issues/35
# [01:50] <socialhapy> ★ Issue #35 on ant-build-script, reported by thezoggy (14m, 29s ago): include filename/global header to publish output
# [01:51] <JonathanNeal> Would anyone have real IE6, IE7, or IE8 and would check if a font loads on a web page for me?
# [01:51] <miketaylr> ?tell grantg ooops. :)~ seems to work in my 11.62 snapshot (which should be official/stable sooooooon).
# [01:51] <bot-t> miketaylr, Okay.
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# [01:52] <_zoggy_> necolas -- normalize.css guy?
# [01:52] <necolas> _zoggy_: hi. yes
# [01:53] <_zoggy_> coo, big fan. love normalize
# [01:53] <necolas> _zoggy_: thanks. JonathanNeal also works on it
# [01:53] <_zoggy_> hasnt in ages.. i used to use his repo
# [01:54] <JonathanNeal> It's almost like necolas' repo became the defacto.
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# [01:54] <JonathanNeal> IT DID!
# [01:54] <_zoggy_> :)
# [01:55] <JonathanNeal> I would remove my repo, but I'd rather it redirected.
# [01:56] <_zoggy_> no worries, im just glad someone maintains an active repo.. and has common sense when people submit browser specific changes
# [01:56] <necolas> JonathanNeal: just keep your repo!
# [01:58] <StoneCypher> JonathanNeal: you know microsoft gives those away as virtual machine images, so you can test?
# [01:58] <StoneCypher> perfectly legal
# [01:58] <StoneCypher> free
# [01:58] <_zoggy_> yes
# [01:58] <JonathanNeal> StoneCypher: I used to use those virtual machine images until they would expire and they wouldn't release a new one.
# [01:58] <StoneCypher> er.
# [01:58] <StoneCypher> they're all currently released though.
# [01:58] <StoneCypher> IE 6 through 10.
# [01:58] <StoneCypher> they never did anything older.
# [01:59] <_zoggy_> microsoft msdn ?
# [01:59] <StoneCypher> they might also be on msdn, but the place i know to get them is just on the main site. http://www.microsoft.com/download/en/details.aspx?id=11575
# [02:00] <StoneCypher> you have to replace them every 6 months because they expire
# [02:00] <StoneCypher> they run under virtualpc and virtualbox
# [02:00] <StoneCypher> maybe other places too, don't really know
# [02:00] <JonathanNeal> StoneCypher: I understand, but they would expire, see http://www.iecss.com/spoon/
# [02:01] <StoneCypher> that isn't microsoft
# [02:01] <StoneCypher> that's spoon.net
# [02:01] <JonathanNeal> Read the part about timebombed images.
# [02:01] <JonathanNeal> I'm not saying it's a BAD idea, I'm saying it was executed badly and I'm afraid to go back.
# [02:01] <StoneCypher> well, it's two times a year
# [02:01] <StoneCypher> but
# [02:01] * StoneCypher shrugs
# [02:01] <StoneCypher> i just thought it might be useful to you.
# [02:02] <StoneCypher> they work fine for me.
# [02:02] <JonathanNeal> I know you're just trying to offer something free.
# [02:02] <StoneCypher> hope you find something that helps :)
# [02:02] <StoneCypher> there's always testling, too
# [02:02] <StoneCypher> or browserling
# [02:02] <JonathanNeal> I will consider using those images again, but because of how out of sync the releases were, I ended up using MicroXP and the IE Collection.
# [02:02] <StoneCypher> can never remember which one is which
# [02:02] <JonathanNeal> The reason I asked if anyone had real IE was because my real IE was giving me a false false (or so I think).
# [02:03] <JonathanNeal> The real IE on my virtual machine was saying something isn't working that I was pretty sure should be in IE.
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# [02:03] <StoneCypher> yeah, i kind of doubt a virtual machine causes ie bugs.
# [02:03] <JonathanNeal> (the other reason I use microxp is because it's like the timebombed images except it only needs 40MB commit memory, versus the 1GB of their timebombed image.
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# [02:35] <_zoggy_> 'Controlling the order of JavaScript' on https://github.com/h5bp/html5-boilerplate/wiki/Build-script is out of date, references code that doesnt exist anymore
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# [02:36] <grantg> miketaylr: I wonder if this opera graphics glitch is in the opera bug tracker: http://imgur.com/a/VmBNZ
# [02:36] <bot-t> (44 mins 40 secs ago) <miketaylr> tell grantg ooops. :)~ seems to work in my 11.62 snapshot (which should be official/stable sooooooon).
# [02:36] <grantg> Doesn't work in the stable, but it does in the nightly
# [02:36] <grantg> as in the typed array stuff
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# [02:37] <grantg> miketaylr: Seems opera is having a flicker issue with CSS
# [02:37] <miketaylr> yeah, sorry about that ^_^
# [02:37] <grantg> see the image I linked
# [02:37] <grantg> It does that when resizing opera
# [02:37] <grantg> switches to this weird padding and then without with flickering while resizing
# [02:37] <miketaylr> weird
# [02:38] <miketaylr> that's on your gamecenter page?
# [02:38] <grantg> Been happening for a looong time
# [02:38] <grantg> and gameboy page too
# [02:38] <grantg> seems related to how opera handles fixed positioning
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# [02:38] <grantg> weird indeed
# [02:38] <miketaylr> how do i reproduce this? load up a game and resize?
# [02:38] <grantg> yeah
# [02:39] <grantg> run in stretched mode
# [02:39] <grantg> happens in the gamecenter and in the standard page
# [02:39] * Parts: eboy (~eboyjr@unaffiliated/eboyjr)
# [02:39] <grantg> If you resize a certain way it does that
# [02:40] <grantg> Like opera skips checks if you only resize in one direction
# [02:40] <miketaylr> aside: so for the opera 11.61 one, want me to send a pull request that checks for version before doing the workaround?
# [02:40] <grantg> eh
# [02:40] <miketaylr> hmm how do i toggle fullscreen?
# [02:40] <grantg> We can leave it
# [02:40] <miketaylr> cool
# [02:40] <grantg> hit escape key
# [02:40] <grantg> ok found how to trigger it
# [02:41] <grantg> resize ONLY vertically
# [02:41] <miketaylr> ah, the page says Tab
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# [02:41] <grantg> horizontal drags reset it back to no ghost padding
# [02:41] <miketaylr> oh like this? http://miketaylr.com/post/01e3284b.png
# [02:41] <miketaylr> heh
# [02:41] <grantg> if you only vertical drag it seems like it doesn't resize the canvas
# [02:41] <grantg> yeah
# [02:42] <miketaylr> lol
# [02:42] <grantg> weird
# [02:42] <miketaylr> ok, i'll report that
# [02:42] <grantg> yeah, and it's not a recent thing, it's actually a long standing issue
# [02:42] <grantg> I believe back to at least 10.X
# [02:43] <miketaylr> huh
# [02:44] <miketaylr> yeah that's no good, thanks for the headsup
# [02:44] <grantg> no prob
# [02:44] <grantg> Basically it looks like Opera is miscalculating fixed positioning during specific resizing
# [02:45] <xp_prg> in html5 is it common practice to give a radio button an id?
# [02:45] * grantg quiets himself before someone tacks another opera wtf bug to the positioniseverything site
# [02:47] <miketaylr> xp_prg: dunno if it's common practice, but it's valid
# [02:47] <StoneCypher> xp_prg: only if it's useful. the name is generally the important thing for form elements.
# [02:47] <xp_prg> I heart you both but especially StoneCypher *hugs*
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# [02:51] <grantg> miketaylr: Another screenshot - http://i.imgur.com/MvvK6.jpg
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# [02:52] <miketaylr> gracias
# [02:52] <StoneCypher> megaman <3
# [02:53] <grantg> Hmm, are we seeing a partial reflow, or is this a default gray for a widget?
# [02:53] <grantg> As the page bg is also gray
# [02:53] <grantg> Which means incorrect layout
# [02:55] <grantg> I'll make a youtube video of the issue
# [02:55] <xp_prg> ok I have a very hard question, I have a parent section that has display: block; text-align:center; and two child sections that have display:inline-block; this centers the child sections in the parent section but also centers everything in the child sections, I want the content in the child sections to be left aligned
# [02:56] <xp_prg> figured it out nm
# [02:59] <grantg> uploading test video
# [03:00] <grantg> Also I noticed Opera doesn't run it fullspeed, even though it caps out at 70% CPU usage
# [03:01] <grantg> probably a setInterval logic issue
# [03:01] <grantg> I know google chrome compensates and actually issues callbacks early to get an average of the right timing, which is actually the best
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# [03:04] <grantg> http://youtu.be/LsM4W3FJjd0
# [03:05] <miketaylr> excellent
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# [03:06] <miketaylr> filing right now
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# [03:11] <miketaylr> grantg: filed as DSK-358970
# [03:11] <miketaylr> thx
# [03:11] <grantg> nice
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# [03:27] <kaushik_> guys , I am a newbee to the Html devel , just entering it from the mobile devel ,. can anyone suggest me if there is any IDEthat is very good for html5
# [03:28] <Octayn> I just use a text editor with zen coding
# [03:29] <StoneCypher> kaushik_: people will argue bitterly about what makes an ide good
# [03:29] <StoneCypher> kaushik_: personally i just use a highlighting notepad
# [03:30] <Octayn> bitterly is a good modifier there.
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# [05:19] <zog-work> do you guys use any gui apps to modify ANT build files?
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# [05:30] <savant> Oh sweet, this is a legit channel
# [05:30] <savant> Hi guys
# [05:31] <savant> I was wondering, is there some api for controlling devices?
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# [05:31] <savant> Doesn't matter the device at the moment, just wondering whats available
# [05:32] <octayn> Not really?
# [05:32] <savant> oh
# [05:32] <octayn> What are you actually looking for?
# [05:32] <savant> Well I just lost a bet
# [05:32] <savant> I bet someone 5 dollars that there was a way to stab someone through the internet using HTML5
# [05:32] <octayn> What is a 'device'.
# [05:32] <octayn> Oh, lol.
# [05:32] <savant> like with websockets, geolocation and some device api
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# [05:33] <savant> that would be rad
# [05:33] <savant> who do I contact about making some sort of RFC for stabbing people through the internet using html5
# [05:34] <octayn> One of the w3c's various mailing lists, maybe a community group
# [05:34] <savant> jeez there are a lot of working gourps
# [05:34] <savant> *groups
# [05:35] <savant> would this fall under xml?
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# [05:37] <savant> I guess if you're stabbing people in the face, it might be considered an annotation
# [05:38] <savant> Want to make sure I submit it to the proper group, otherwise they won't take me too seriously
# [05:40] <octayn> No, this isn't XML
# [05:41] <octayn> It'd fall under the webapp's stuff
# [05:41] <savant> Well I mean, I like to stab myself in the face whenever I deal with xml of any kind
# [05:41] <octayn> lol
# [05:41] <savant> I figure it would be a sort of bridge between XML and Websockets
# [05:41] <savant> maybe webtrc...
# [05:41] <savant> *webrtc
# [05:42] <octayn> I swear I saw something about a robotics api somewhere
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# [05:42] <octayn> Not sure what I was smoking..
# [05:44] <savant> we'd probably want some audo interoperability
# [05:44] <savant> stabbing isn't very useful if you can't hear the person scream
# [05:44] <savant> video too I guess
# [05:45] <savant> thats media-capture...
# [05:47] <savant> actually this might be userix
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# [05:49] <octayn> webrtc covers screaming + video
# [05:50] <savant> yeah
# [05:50] <savant> real time communications
# [05:50] <savant> I guess touch is also a form of communication
# [05:50] <octayn> By some stretch of the imagination, it is.
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# [05:51] <octayn> I mean, encoding and decoding information is all there, it can be part of the communication loop too.
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# [06:42] <JoeK> im a serious noob, but i want to play an flv (or swf/mp4) fullscreen and loop, is that a simple embed?
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# [06:56] <zog-work> joek, go look at jwplayer - http://www.longtailvideo.com/players
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# [07:07] <dabbad00> Has anyone used the HTML5 File API to do anything interesting with local files beyond just uploading them? Example, using it to parse local files without uploading them? I was thinking about writing an md5 app that could hash local files. Was wondering about how slow or frustrating this API might be.
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# [07:08] <octayn> dabbad00: for relatively small file sizes I don't think it'd be too bad. I saw earlier today someone made a little color selector with the file api. You drag in an image and it's like gcolor2 or what have you
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# [10:06] <jetienne> hi
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# [10:16] <andrewjbaker> Hi, hi.
# [10:16] <mokush> did anybody manage to run ie7.exe from the spoon ie.exe's on win7?
# [10:18] <niftylettuce> jetienne: \o
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# [10:34] <moo-_-> dabbad00: yes
# [10:35] <moo-_-> I parse JPEG files at the client end, extract the camera rotation information, rotate the image, resize the image, save jpeg as blog and and send the reduced file size version to the server
# [10:35] <moo-_-> https://github.com/miohtama/Krusovice/blob/master/src/tools/resizer.js
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# [16:02] <daleharvey> Anyone know how to view indexeddb databases on chrome + osx, tried enabling experimental tools but not getting anything
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# [17:30] <bendman> anybody have suggestions for a blogging engine that is good for talking about code? I'm too lazy to build one right now :P
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# [18:10] <iNable> hi
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# [18:13] <JonathanNeal> hi
# [18:14] <masclic> hi
# [18:14] <masclic> i have a question
# [18:15] <JonathanNeal> oo oo i have an answer!
# [18:15] <masclic> i need know server-side language for make web, apps in html5?
# [18:15] <masclic> django, rails or php i need?
# [18:15] <masclic> or i can use only webstorage html5
# [18:15] <masclic>
# [18:15] <masclic> ?
# [18:16] <JonathanNeal> if you need webstorage, part of HTML5, then yes, that is all you need.
# [18:16] <JonathanNeal> For instance, if you needed localStorage, part of HTML5, then yes, that would be all you need.
# [18:17] <xec> i'm not sure which one of you are more confusing
# [18:17] <JonathanNeal> If you use <video>, well, you would have to put the actual video file (video.ogv, video.webm, video.mp4) somewhere :) but you wouldn't need PHP, Rails, or django.
# [18:17] <JonathanNeal> xec: all you need is love.
# [18:17] <masclic> mm, yes...
# [18:17] <masclic> but if i want make a control panel for the user
# [18:17] <JonathanNeal> HTML, CSS, JS.
# [18:17] <andrewjbaker> Oops... you said a flame-word JonathanNeal. localStorage has been black-listed for inciting too much discussion.^^
# [18:18] <masclic> i can make a cms only with html5 api without php, mysql, django or similar
# [18:18] <JonathanNeal> masclic: no one else could see your CMS if you didn't put it on a server, masclic
# [18:18] <JonathanNeal> but you could enjoy it all to your self, on your client machine.
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# [18:18] <masclic> mmm
# [18:18] <jstoudt> omg... localStorage... let's fight!
# [18:19] <andrewjbaker> LOL.
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# [18:19] <masclic> i need learning first localstorage and advanced javascript for html5 or php?
# [18:19] <JonathanNeal> there is no javascript in php.
# [18:20] <masclic> html5 is capable for make a blog'
# [18:20] <masclic> ?
# [18:20] <JonathanNeal> if you want to use javascript on the server, try using Node.
# [18:20] <xec> JonathanNeal: i beg to differ, i have seen planty of php with javascript right smack in the middle of it ;D
# [18:20] <masclic> without server-side language'=
# [18:20] <masclic> ?
# [18:20] <xec> plenty*
# [18:20] <masclic> mm yes node is a option
# [18:20] <JonathanNeal> html5 is not capable to make a blog that everyone else can see, you need a server to put it on.
# [18:20] <masclic> but node.js not is recomendable for a portal is right?
# [18:20] <JonathanNeal> masclic: learn and use Node if it is an option.
# [18:20] <masclic> i read about node.js not is for blogs is for chat or similar
# [18:20] <JonathanNeal> Then, as you learn how to use Node, you will be closely learning how to use JavaScript.
# [18:21] <xec> node is for whatever you are able to make with it
# [18:21] <masclic> mmm
# [18:21] <JonathanNeal> exactly as xec said ^^
# [18:21] <masclic> gooood
# [18:21] <JonathanNeal> it is good, you will like it.
# [18:21] <masclic> what is yours opinion about php, django, rails?
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# [18:22] <JonathanNeal> I like PHP because I know it and it leverages Apache and I know that too. I admit that Node is probably superior. I have a shared server so I can't install Node ... yet.
# [18:22] <xec> django and rails are frameworks, and php is a language
# [18:22] <JonathanNeal> and again, as xec said ^^ :D
# [18:23] <masclic> mm
# [18:23] <JonathanNeal> masclic: out of curiosity, where are you from in the world?
# [18:23] <masclic> i from spain
# [18:23] <xec> it all depends on what you need to do. if you are new at making internets maybe wordpress or something, if you want a blog?
# [18:23] <masclic> and you ?
# [18:23] <JonathanNeal> awesome, where in Spain?
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# [18:24] <JonathanNeal> I am from Disneyland, California. At least within miles of Disneyland.
# [18:24] <masclic> navarra pamplona sanfermin
# [18:24] <xec> haven't tried it myself but hear it's easy to set up and use
# [18:24] <JonathanNeal> masclic: my wife taught English in Igualada.
# [18:25] <JonathanNeal> She knew Spanish, and she had to learn Catalan.
# [18:25] <masclic> ohh
# [18:25] <masclic> oho
# [18:25] <masclic> my wife is puerto rican
# [18:25] <masclic> and speak english well
# [18:25] <masclic> i speak and write bad :)
# [18:26] <JonathanNeal> That's okay. You'll get better.
# [18:26] <masclic> you test the phonegap?
# [18:26] <JonathanNeal> I have used phonegap, but I would not have much to say about it. I did not use it much.
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# [18:27] <masclic> is ok
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# [18:27] <JonathanNeal> It is good at turning web applications into native mobile applications. From what I understand, it gives you a "chromeframe", so the app is basically showing you a browser window, but it gives you some controls to native things.
# [18:28] <masclic> yes
# [18:28] <masclic> i think is util use same language for all
# [18:28] <masclic> html5, css3 and js for advanced study
# [18:28] <JonathanNeal> masclic: consider reading http://diveintohtml5.info/
# [18:28] <masclic> and make mobile applications with this is cool
# [18:28] <masclic> mm, is ok i have this and
# [18:29] <masclic> all apress, oreilly, wrox and packtpublishing books about
# [18:29] <masclic> html5, js, css3, etc..
# [18:29] <JonathanNeal> If you want a good explanation of how to use CSS to do cool things, consider reading http://css-tricks.com/
# [18:29] <masclic> but i need run to study and practice
# [18:29] <masclic> start
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# [18:29] <masclic> but the organization for steps is important
# [18:29] <masclic> not run to a way incorrect
# [18:30] <masclic> or study a technology or language incorrect
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# [18:30] <masclic> i dont know programming
# [18:30] <JonathanNeal> Well, your questions reveal some trouble understanding what HTML5 does and what HTML5 does not do. I think you're on your way to understanding what HTML5 does. :)
# [18:31] <masclic> is good comming with html5 and Javascript first language?
# [18:31] <masclic> yes
# [18:31] <JonathanNeal> Many pieces of HTML, CSS, JavaScript, and server-side programming go into making a blog. HTML5 does not do absolutely everything.
# [18:31] <masclic> i downloading many courses but not read and study
# [18:31] <JonathanNeal> Yea, HTML is a great language to get started with. It's pretty fun and easy to get started.
# [18:32] <JonathanNeal> You'll have a lot of fun learning CSS because it's like getting to paint.
# [18:32] <masclic> yes i know xhtml and css
# [18:33] <JonathanNeal> did you use xml in your html?
# [18:33] <masclic> mm no
# [18:34] <JonathanNeal> then it is commonly believed that if you knew xhtml it really meant you knew how to write well-formed html and you liked to do <br/> instead of <br>
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# [18:34] <masclic> yes
# [18:34] <masclic> i need know advanced xhtml
# [18:34] <masclic> and xml
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# [18:34] <masclic> or go directly study html5 and css3?
# [18:34] <JonathanNeal> Otherwise there was almost no difference between XHTML Strict and well written HTML4.
# [18:35] <JonathanNeal> on the contrary, don't worry about xml.
# [18:35] <JonathanNeal> learn about html5.
# [18:35] <JonathanNeal> learn about css3.
# [18:35] <masclic> oh is good
# [18:35] <JonathanNeal> learn about javascript, and then you'll love json (which would do everything you ever dreamed xml could do and more, and so much easier)
# [18:35] <masclic> apress published the html5 book of 1000 pags
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# [18:36] <masclic> mm is ok
# [18:36] <JonathanNeal> If you have the time and you put in the effort, you will have a great experience, I think.
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# [18:36] <masclic> i like the net.tutsplus.com for practicwe
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# [18:36] <JonathanNeal> awesome.
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# [19:02] <bourbaki> hidiho
# [19:02] <bourbaki> is there any free lightweight 2d sprite engine for html5 that it worth looking at?
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# [19:18] <Armen138> bourbaki: I'm working on one ;)
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# [19:24] <masclic> alguien habla español ¿ speak spanish?
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# [19:55] <jhon> Hi all
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# [19:57] <jhon> Anyone knows about how to scan a document using WIA or Twain and integrated this with a html5 page?
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# [21:54] <xp_prg> I forget how to color a row in a table when a user selects it
# [21:55] <xp_prg> isn't there css for that?
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# [22:07] <Ms2ger> tr:hover { background: papayawhip }
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# [22:31] <danielfilho> papayawhip
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# [22:32] <danielfilho> those color names looks like nail polish names in Brazil
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# Session Close: Sat Mar 10 00:00:00 2012

The end :)