/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2012-03-22 / end

Options:

# Session Start: Thu Mar 22 00:00:00 2012
# Session Ident: #html5
# [00:00] <grantg> overall accuracy over time vs. immediate precision
# [00:00] * Joins: dividinglimits (~boogy@72.184.194.26)
# [00:00] <paul_irish> ?g high resolution timer w3
# [00:00] <bot-t> paul_irish, User Timing - https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webperf/raw-file/tip/specs/UserTiming/Overview.html
# [00:00] <dilvie> thanks, paul_irish
# [00:00] <paul_irish> nope not that
# [00:00] <paul_irish> http://www.w3.org/TR/hr-time/
# [00:01] <paul_irish> ^
# [00:01] <paul_irish> window.performance.now
# [00:01] <paul_irish> also rAF will have a highres timestamp passed into it
# [00:01] <grantg> paul_irish: Being able to select overall accuracy over time vs. immediate precision would be very vital to the timer api
# [00:02] <paul_irish> not sure i understand but i gotta run. you should holler at public-web-perf@w3.org
# [00:02] <grantg> delvie: rAF has no "respect" to audio callback timing, hence why I have to use it.
# [00:02] <grantg> *hence why I have to use setInterval
# [00:02] <grantg> lol misword
# [00:03] * Quits: boogyman (~boogy@72.184.194.26) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
# [00:03] * dividinglimits is now known as boogyman
# [00:03] <grantg> I don't need nanosecond accuracy, I need the timer callbacks to not underrun over time
# [00:03] <grantg> :P
# [00:03] * Quits: patcito (~123@201.240.71.241) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [00:04] <grantg> Firefox is a big violater of callbacks/sec being inaccurate
# [00:06] <grantg> Velmont: Anyhow, there should be an extension to allow precision loss, for the sake of calls over time actually being right
# [00:06] * theresaanna is now known as theresa_away
# [00:07] <grantg> "do you want EXACTLY x ms between the calls, or do you want it to be x ms averaged over time, with heuristics to call it early/late to make sure it really does hit x ms as an average"
# [00:07] * Quits: sarro (~sarro@i5E865A0A.versanet.de)
# [00:07] * Joins: _jzl (~jzl@206-188-76-206.cpe.distributel.net)
# [00:07] <grantg> that needs to be a boolean param
# [00:07] <Velmont> Well, one has to be default.
# [00:07] * Joins: QiBala (~QiBala@nodester.com)
# [00:07] <grantg> setInterval has too much legacy, no?
# [00:07] <grantg> This would need to be part of the new api
# [00:08] <Velmont> And if having a x between calls is really something we'd want, I guess that should come into a spec so that everyone can implmenet it :-)
# [00:08] * Quits: Peeter (peetertomb@217.18.70.242) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [00:08] <grantg> Because some want precision, others want accuracy
# [00:08] * Parts: louisremi (~louisremi@mon69-3-87-90-54-237.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr)
# [00:08] <grantg> and some want the default of a balance between both
# [00:09] <Velmont> Ah, -- new api, -- that with high res timers, that's for reading out info. - I'm not aware of any ongoing work on a new schedule-job timer-thing. Are you?
# [00:09] * Joins: drdreed88 (~drdreed@c-98-193-132-235.hsd1.tn.comcast.net)
# [00:09] * Quits: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-112.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: tantek)
# [00:10] <grantg> What part allows this to be scheduled right?
# [00:11] <grantg> For the accuracy vs. precision to be selecting as the scheduling algo?
# [00:11] <grantg> *selected
# [00:11] <grantg> *accuracy or precision
# [00:11] <grantg> *accuracy or precision cases
# [00:11] <grantg> heh
# [00:12] * Joins: schnoomac (~schnoomac@melbourne.99cluster.com)
# [00:12] * Quits: drdreed (drdreed@c-98-193-132-235.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
# [00:13] * Quits: boogyman (~boogy@72.184.194.26) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
# [00:13] * Joins: MrJ (~boogy@unaffiliated/mrj)
# [00:14] <grantg> Also RAF needs setMaximumFrameRate(int) function
# [00:14] * Quits: schnoomac (~schnoomac@melbourne.99cluster.com) (Client Quit)
# [00:14] <grantg> So the spacing between frames can be controlled
# [00:14] * MrJ is now known as boogyman
# [00:14] <grantg> if the dev wants less than the system frame rate
# [00:15] <grantg> I noticed that I need trick chrome into spacing at 62.5 fps by calling RAF outside the RAF callbacks itself
# [00:15] * Quits: thcipriani (~tyler@173-14-24-158-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Quit: leaving)
# [00:15] * Joins: welly (~welly@unaffiliated/welly)
# [00:15] <grantg> should be able to hint this RAF with a param or function added to the api
# [00:16] <grantg> *this to RAF
# [00:16] <grantg> Is there no way to do this?
# [00:16] * Quits: raj (~raj@unaffiliated/cypha) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [00:16] <Velmont> I'd just start a thread on WHATWG if I were you. :-) Or the place they spec RAF, -- I don't remember where that is.
# [00:16] <Velmont> Anyway, it's late late here, so I'll go to bed.
# [00:16] <grantg> nn
# [00:17] <grantg> RAF needs to be able to have the dev set a frame rate ceiling
# [00:17] <grantg> Right now RAF wants to hit the highest fps it can go
# [00:17] <grantg> chrome doesn't do that by tricking it with calls from a setInterval rather than from inside the callback
# [00:18] <grantg> firefox can't do this
# [00:18] <grantg> firefox will drop to 10 fps when doing this
# [00:18] * Joins: dividinglimits (~boogy@72.184.194.26)
# [00:18] <grantg> hence why I dropped mozRequestAnimationFrame support
# [00:18] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [00:18] <grantg> and the fact firefox tears more w/ RAF than without
# [00:18] <grantg> on OS X at least
# [00:18] * Joins: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175)
# [00:19] * Quits: boogyman (~boogy@unaffiliated/mrj) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
# [00:19] * dividinglimits is now known as boogyman
# [00:19] <grantg> you can trick RAF in chrome to go 62.5 fps, while in firefox you can't
# [00:20] <grantg> Firefox only either spams the event queue with max fps or has some shitty frame rate
# [00:20] * Joins: schnoomac (~schnoomac@melbourne.99cluster.com)
# [00:20] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [00:20] * Joins: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175)
# [00:21] * Joins: necolas (~necolas@5ade73f0.bb.sky.com)
# [00:21] * Quits: venom00ut (~venom00@unaffiliated/venom00) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
# [00:21] <grantg> Noticed I said 62.5 fps, that's still a problem for me, as a gameboy color has a refresh rate of around 59.72, so I make a dummy RAF call every once in awhie
# [00:21] <grantg> *awhile
# [00:22] <grantg> hence a very slight frame stutter
# [00:22] * Joins: dividinglimits (~boogy@72.184.194.26)
# [00:22] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [00:22] * Joins: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175)
# [00:24] <grantg> but chrome spaces the framing between each RAF call at 62.5 fps, so for the frames that do draw, they're evenly spaced
# [00:24] * Quits: edwardbc (~edward.ba@186.176.193.20)
# [00:24] <grantg> rather than with setInterval stutter
# [00:24] * Quits: _jzl (~jzl@206-188-76-206.cpe.distributel.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [00:24] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [00:24] * Quits: boogyman (~boogy@72.184.194.26) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
# [00:24] * Joins: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175)
# [00:24] * dividinglimits is now known as boogyman
# [00:25] <grantg> so things like opacity flicker look right
# [00:25] <grantg> by switching things on/off every frame
# [00:25] <grantg> except for that ~3 fps frame beating
# [00:26] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [00:26] * Joins: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175)
# [00:27] * Quits: Taftse (~Taftse@unaffiliated/taftse) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [00:27] * Joins: Taftse (Taftse@unaffiliated/taftse)
# [00:28] <grantg> anyhow, the story goes that real game programming shouldn't have the graphics drawing tied to a timer, but rather RAF, while the core logic *should* be timed via a timer
# [00:28] * Quits: erichynds (~ehynds@pool-71-184-234-218.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
# [00:28] <grantg> as A/V has to be kept in check via the core logic
# [00:28] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [00:28] <grantg> which has to be agnostic to the particular frame rates and audio buffer rates
# [00:29] * Joins: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175)
# [00:29] * Joins: axos411 (~axos@xdsl-78-35-158-22.netcologne.de)
# [00:30] * Quits: axos411 (~axos@xdsl-78-35-158-22.netcologne.de) (Client Quit)
# [00:30] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [00:30] * Joins: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175)
# [00:31] * Quits: cccaldas (~cccaldas@177.17.17.39) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
# [00:31] <grantg> because v-sync and audio buffer fills are not related and executed in random when compared to each other, so core logic must be done separately
# [00:32] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [00:32] * Joins: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175)
# [00:33] * Joins: dividinglimits (~boogy@72.184.194.26)
# [00:33] * Quits: brettgoulder (~textual@173-164-36-90-colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
# [00:34] * Quits: zeppo (~zeppo@109.58.87.138.bredband.tre.se) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [00:34] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [00:35] * Joins: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175)
# [00:35] <grantg> as timing against v-sync might cause audio drop-outs, while timing against audio might cause crazy frame stuttering
# [00:36] <grantg> so choose neither
# [00:36] * Quits: boogyman (~boogy@72.184.194.26) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
# [00:36] * dividinglimits is now known as boogyman
# [00:36] * Quits: JoshuaJones (~JoshuaJon@67.198.198.66) (Quit: JoshuaJones)
# [00:37] <grantg> v-sync=RAF in this case
# [00:38] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [00:38] * Joins: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175)
# [00:39] * Quits: rbrooks (~jwbf75ug@gateway/tor-sasl/jwbf75ug) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
# [00:40] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [00:40] * Joins: dividinglimits (~boogy@72.184.194.26)
# [00:40] * Joins: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175)
# [00:41] <grantg> delvie: There needs to be a whole blog post on this
# [00:41] <grantg> with graphs
# [00:41] <grantg> showing delay times
# [00:41] <grantg> and accuracy vs. precision
# [00:41] * Quits: boogyman (~boogy@72.184.194.26) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
# [00:41] <grantg> and how each browser differs in timer logic and RAF logic
# [00:42] * dividinglimits is now known as boogyman
# [00:42] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [00:43] * Joins: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175)
# [00:44] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [00:45] * Joins: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175)
# [00:47] * Quits: sean` (~seankoole@D97A9E4C.cm-3-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
# [00:49] * Quits: mokush (~mokush@188.24.45.181) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [00:50] * Quits: snearch (~snearch@f053000232.adsl.alicedsl.de) (Quit: Verlassend)
# [00:50] * Joins: andr3 (~andr3@bl14-164-78.dsl.telepac.pt)
# [00:50] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [00:51] * Joins: JoshuaJones (~JoshuaJon@67.198.198.66)
# [00:51] * Joins: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175)
# [00:52] * Joins: rbrooks (~jwbf75ug@gateway/tor-sasl/jwbf75ug)
# [00:52] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [00:53] * Joins: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175)
# [00:54] * Joins: Eneerge (~Eneerge@unaffiliated/eneerge)
# [00:54] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [00:55] * Joins: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175)
# [00:56] * Joins: dividinglimits (~boogy@72.184.194.26)
# [00:57] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [00:57] * Joins: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175)
# [00:58] <grantg> high-resolution timers mean squat when you're required to postMessage the heck out of the event queue and the callbacks for checking still are fired with inaccuracy
# [00:58] * Quits: boogyman (~boogy@72.184.194.26) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
# [00:58] * dividinglimits is now known as boogyman
# [00:58] <grantg> sure you can get the exact time, but you will be only able to handle stuff at random with jitter when we call you back
# [00:59] * Quits: andr3 (~andr3@bl14-164-78.dsl.telepac.pt) (Quit: andr3)
# [00:59] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [00:59] <grantg> Rather, stop spamming the event queue and reduce the amount of timers on page
# [00:59] * Joins: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175)
# [01:00] <grantg> setInterval simply needs to be fixed to give the dev the option to specify whether the callbacks can arrive early for delay compensation
# [01:00] <grantg> high resolution is a fools dream to say
# [01:01] * Quits: jblanche (~jblanche@ivr94-10-88-177-169-11.fbx.proxad.net) (Quit: jblanche)
# [01:01] <grantg> As you can have your high resolution, but by handling it in a non high-resolution manner
# [01:01] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [01:01] * Joins: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175)
# [01:02] <grantg> if you spam with postMessage, then you might block RAF
# [01:02] <grantg> and block audio too
# [01:03] * Quits: dephex (~dddd@CPE-72-128-193-51.wi.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
# [01:03] * Quits: addyosmani (~addyosman@host86-176-150-45.range86-176.btcentralplus.com) (Quit: addyosmani)
# [01:03] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [01:03] * Joins: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175)
# [01:04] <grantg> for things like streaming raw pcm from js itself
# [01:04] <grantg> and spacing out frames evenly
# [01:04] * Quits: Taftse (Taftse@unaffiliated/taftse) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [01:04] <grantg> core logic can have jitter, not A/V
# [01:04] * Joins: Taftse (Taftse@unaffiliated/taftse)
# [01:05] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [01:05] * Joins: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175)
# [01:06] * Joins: Kichael (~Kichael@70-36-49-167.dyn.novuscom.net)
# [01:07] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [01:07] * Quits: teleject (~christoph@70.116.86.65) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [01:07] * Joins: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175)
# [01:09] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [01:09] * Joins: GhostFreeman (~thrillho@c-24-98-246-138.hsd1.ga.comcast.net)
# [01:09] * Joins: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175)
# [01:11] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [01:11] * Joins: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175)
# [01:15] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [01:15] * Joins: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175)
# [01:16] * Joins: dividinglimits (~boogy@72.184.194.26)
# [01:17] * Quits: Demp (Demp@unaffiliated/demp) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
# [01:17] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [01:17] * Joins: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175)
# [01:17] * Quits: boogyman (~boogy@72.184.194.26) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
# [01:18] * dividinglimits is now known as boogyman
# [01:19] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [01:19] * Joins: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175)
# [01:20] * Joins: dividinglimits (~boogy@72.184.194.26)
# [01:20] * Joins: DroidFreeman (~thrillho@c-24-98-246-138.hsd1.ga.comcast.net)
# [01:20] * Quits: GhostFreeman (~thrillho@c-24-98-246-138.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [01:22] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [01:22] * Joins: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175)
# [01:22] * Quits: boogyman (~boogy@72.184.194.26) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
# [01:22] * dividinglimits is now known as boogyman
# [01:23] * Joins: cccaldas (~cccaldas@177.17.95.193)
# [01:23] * Quits: divya (~divya@deepak.jois.name) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [01:24] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [01:24] * Joins: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175)
# [01:26] * Quits: jetienne (~jerome@ivr94-6-82-230-255-246.fbx.proxad.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [01:26] * Joins: addyosmani (~addyosman@host86-176-150-45.range86-176.btcentralplus.com)
# [01:28] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [01:28] * Joins: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175)
# [01:29] * Quits: devmikey (~irc@unaffiliated/devmikey) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [01:30] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [01:30] * Joins: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175)
# [01:32] * Joins: patcito (~123@190.232.183.70)
# [01:32] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [01:32] * Joins: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175)
# [01:33] * Joins: nimbu (~divya@deepak.jois.name)
# [01:33] * Joins: dividinglimits (~boogy@72.184.194.26)
# [01:34] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [01:34] * Joins: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175)
# [01:36] * Quits: QiBala (~QiBala@nodester.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [01:36] * Quits: boogyman (~boogy@72.184.194.26) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
# [01:36] * dividinglimits is now known as boogyman
# [01:36] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@80.232.109.46) (Quit: dflk;adfslkj;alsiekfj;laiskdf)
# [01:37] * Quits: nemrod (~nemrod@unaffiliated/nemrod) (Read error: Operation timed out)
# [01:37] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [01:37] * Quits: BreadMaker (~BreadMake@pc-14-165-100-190.cm.vtr.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [01:37] * Joins: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175)
# [01:37] * Joins: nemrod (~nemrod@unaffiliated/nemrod)
# [01:39] * Quits: nimbu (~divya@deepak.jois.name) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [01:39] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [01:39] * Joins: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175)
# [01:40] * Quits: Taftse (Taftse@unaffiliated/taftse) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
# [01:40] * Joins: nimbu (~divya@deepak.jois.name)
# [01:41] * Quits: cccaldas (~cccaldas@177.17.95.193) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
# [01:42] * Quits: localhost (~chris@cpe-76-188-161-222.neo.res.rr.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [01:43] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [01:43] * Joins: raj (~raj@unaffiliated/cypha)
# [01:43] * Joins: Luxx_ (~highoh@c-67-171-35-186.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
# [01:43] * Joins: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175)
# [01:45] * Joins: localhost (~chris@cpe-76-188-161-222.neo.res.rr.com)
# [01:45] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [01:45] * Joins: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175)
# [01:46] * nimbu is now known as divya
# [01:46] * Joins: pandeiro (~mu@bd21cb7c.virtua.com.br)
# [01:48] * Joins: randomubuntuguy (~randomubu@cpe-066-057-080-255.nc.res.rr.com)
# [01:50] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [01:51] * Joins: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175)
# [01:52] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [01:53] * Joins: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175)
# [01:54] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [01:55] * Joins: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175)
# [01:57] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [01:58] * Joins: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175)
# [01:59] * Quits: randomubuntuguy (~randomubu@cpe-066-057-080-255.nc.res.rr.com) (Read error: Operation timed out)
# [01:59] * Joins: tylerstalder (~tylerstal@c-50-131-59-86.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
# [01:59] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [02:00] * Joins: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175)
# [02:00] * Quits: bhunt (~zixiz@S0106602ad0847293.vw.shawcable.net) (Quit: bhunt)
# [02:00] * Joins: cccaldas (~cccaldas@177.17.95.193)
# [02:02] * Quits: dilvie (~chatzilla@216.55.31.186) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 11.0/20120312181643])
# [02:02] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [02:03] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@50-0-133-210.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [02:03] * Joins: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175)
# [02:03] * Joins: Jon47 (~Adium@pool-74-96-160-56.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
# [02:04] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [02:05] * Joins: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175)
# [02:06] * Quits: Armen (~armen@dsl-69-171-154-4.acanac.net) (Quit: bbl)
# [02:09] * Quits: Jayflux (~jay_knows@cpc1-dudl6-0-0-cust1981.wolv.cable.virginmedia.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [02:09] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [02:09] * Joins: Armen (~armen@dsl-69-171-154-4.acanac.net)
# [02:10] * Joins: dividinglimits (~boogy@72.184.194.26)
# [02:10] * Joins: intellilogic (~intellilo@static-96-241-182-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
# [02:11] <JonathanNeal> Internet Explorer 9 only supports WebM when the user has installed a VP8 codec, correct?
# [02:11] <JonathanNeal> Does anyone know for IE10?
# [02:11] * Joins: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175)
# [02:11] * Quits: boogyman (~boogy@72.184.194.26) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
# [02:12] * dividinglimits is now known as boogyman
# [02:14] * Joins: dividinglimits (~boogy@72.184.194.26)
# [02:14] * Quits: tylerstalder (~tylerstal@c-50-131-59-86.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
# [02:16] * Quits: boogyman (~boogy@72.184.194.26) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
# [02:16] * dividinglimits is now known as boogyman
# [02:17] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [02:19] * Quits: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [02:21] * Quits: ruimarinho (~ruimarinh@a89-152-72-177.cpe.netcabo.pt) (Quit: Leaving...)
# [02:24] * Joins: axos411 (~axos@xdsl-78-35-158-22.netcologne.de)
# [02:25] * Quits: yogig (~yogig@67-131-94-2.dia.static.qwest.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [02:26] * Joins: diraol (~diraol@189.38.131.49)
# [02:27] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-215-74.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
# [02:29] <paul_irish> JonathanNeal: same.
# [02:31] * Joins: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175)
# [02:37] * Joins: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com)
# [02:38] * Quits: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) (Client Quit)
# [02:38] * Joins: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com)
# [02:41] <JonathanNeal> Nifty, thanks Paul.
# [02:44] * Joins: Octayn (~Octayn@unaffiliated/cmr)
# [02:44] <paul_irish> * http://trac.webkit.org/changeset/111637 /trunk/ (72 files in 22 dirs): https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=80322 Implement image-set Reviewed by Dean Jackson. Source/WebCore: This initial implementation of -webkit-image-set. ...
# [02:44] <paul_irish> ** just landed.
# [02:49] * Quits: necolas (~necolas@5ade73f0.bb.sky.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [02:49] * Joins: mattkelly (~mattkelly@115.160.188.158)
# [02:51] <JonathanNeal> AWESOME
# [02:51] <JonathanNeal> paul_irish: so cool.
# [02:52] * Quits: tung (~tung@219.82.19.175) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [02:52] <grantg> nic
# [02:52] <grantg> nice
# [02:53] <grantg> So we can explicitly mip-map?
# [02:53] <grantg> provide pre-scaled versions of the image.
# [02:56] * Quits: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
# [02:57] * Quits: addyosmani (~addyosman@host86-176-150-45.range86-176.btcentralplus.com) (Quit: addyosmani)
# [02:59] * Joins: dephex (~dddd@CPE-72-128-193-51.wi.res.rr.com)
# [03:02] * Quits: JoshuaJones (~JoshuaJon@67.198.198.66) (Quit: JoshuaJones)
# [03:03] * Quits: mattkelly (~mattkelly@115.160.188.158) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
# [03:04] * Joins: techrush (~techrush@cpe-76-175-29-57.socal.res.rr.com)
# [03:06] * Quits: _inc (~inc@unaffiliated/-inc/x-0498339) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
# [03:06] * smplstk is now known as wholebot-t
# [03:07] * wholebot-t is now known as smplstk
# [03:07] * Quits: Jon47 (~Adium@pool-74-96-160-56.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [03:10] * Quits: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [03:10] <paul_irish> grantg: http://paul-irish.tumblr.com/post/19712145243/grantg-on-requestanimationframe-in-html5 :p
# [03:10] <grantg> lol?
# [03:11] * Joins: _inc (~inc@unaffiliated/-inc/x-0498339)
# [03:11] <paul_irish> i think you're gonna make me have to send that to the engineers working on rAF
# [03:12] <grantg> lol
# [03:12] <paul_irish> grantg: we just published this btw
# [03:12] <paul_irish> http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/developertools/sourcemaps
# [03:12] * Quits: sephr (~Eli@unaffiliated/sephr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [03:12] <paul_irish> iunno what your build process looks like
# [03:12] <paul_irish> but it might be cool
# [03:12] <grantg> rAF needs an extra function to set the max frame rate
# [03:13] <grantg> as right now the browser controls that
# [03:13] <paul_irish> grantg: there was a discussiion about dropping it down to 30fps
# [03:13] <paul_irish> if the callback is blowing past 16.6ms consistently
# [03:13] <grantg> I'd say keep it at native
# [03:13] <paul_irish> but again, that's browser controled
# [03:13] <grantg> 30 fps? lol
# [03:13] <grantg> Then I'll drop rAF support
# [03:14] <paul_irish> well it'll only be for the noobs that cant get out in 16ms
# [03:14] <grantg> Problem is that a lot of the time chrome goes too slow on gfx
# [03:14] <grantg> Chrome Canary regressed very recently on my emulator
# [03:14] <grantg> Now when you fullscreen it, chrome takes up all the cpu
# [03:14] <grantg> Used to not do that
# [03:15] <grantg> Seems chrome somehow lost hw acceleration
# [03:15] <grantg> also they pushed this to chrome dev
# [03:15] <grantg> that regression
# [03:15] <paul_irish> thers a lot of activity in the PGU land
# [03:15] <paul_irish> GPU land. right now
# [03:15] <paul_irish> 18 should ship hw accel canvas to stable
# [03:15] <grantg> Did they revert the gfx?
# [03:15] <paul_irish> we hope
# [03:15] <paul_irish> iunno.
# [03:15] * Quits: drdreed88 (~drdreed@c-98-193-132-235.hsd1.tn.comcast.net)
# [03:15] <grantg> Because it feels like chrome 17 now
# [03:15] <grantg> and chrome 17 was super slow
# [03:16] <grantg> would go 10 fps fullscreening the canvas
# [03:16] <paul_irish> i'd be patient :)
# [03:16] <grantg> problem with chrome is not the javascript
# [03:16] <paul_irish> but it'll come back
# [03:16] <grantg> The thing is I use css to control scaling without requiring javascript
# [03:17] <grantg> as javascript has an update delay when doing so
# [03:17] <grantg> you get trash when resizing the window when using js to control the canvas width/height
# [03:17] <grantg> Firefox has no problem accelerating the layer
# [03:17] <grantg> only chrome does
# [03:17] <grantg> actually, Opera used to be like chrome there
# [03:18] <grantg> they fixed the gfx slowness recently in opera
# [03:18] <grantg> for scaling a canvas with css fixed positioning
# [03:18] * Quits: devongovett (~devongove@140-251.198-178.cust.bluewin.ch) (Quit: devongovett)
# [03:18] <grantg> like how the canvas context will be 160x144, but the css for it calls for it to be 100% width and height at top: 0px and left: 0px with fixed positioning
# [03:19] <grantg> chrome fails badly on that
# [03:19] <grantg> which means chrome is having layer issues
# [03:20] <grantg> Because I also have a setting that allows for manual control in javascript and scales it in js and the js resizer algo is almost as fast as chrome doing it native
# [03:20] <grantg> and that's with javascript, not webgl
# [03:20] <grantg> seriously
# [03:21] <grantg> software scaler in js is almost as fast as chrome trying to do it natively
# [03:21] <grantg> that's how bad it is right now in chrome
# [03:23] <grantg> throttling rAF is treating the symptoms
# [03:23] <grantg> not the prob
# [03:24] <grantg> unless of course the js dev is spamming canvas 2d
# [03:25] <grantg> but seriously the fps throttle needs to be exposed to js
# [03:25] <grantg> so the dev can control it if they know it's there
# [03:26] <grantg> the user agent of course must math.min it with the actual computer v-sync/refresh rate
# [03:27] <grantg> and each computer has a different refresh rate, so a throttle can't be hardcoded really
# [03:28] <grantg> macs have 85 fps, some computers have 60
# [03:28] <grantg> some devices have 30
# [03:30] <grantg> well some macs have 85
# [03:30] <grantg> depends on monitor of course
# [03:30] <grantg> I think 60/75 are also valid mac refresh rates
# [03:31] * Quits: tertl3 (~tertl3@108-85-17-207.lightspeed.gnvlsc.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
# [03:31] * Joins: randomubuntuguy (~randomubu@cpe-066-057-080-255.nc.res.rr.com)
# [03:34] <grantg> Anyhow if you're going to add a throttle, it must be accessible by the js dev
# [03:39] * Joins: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113)
# [03:46] * Quits: ColKurtz (~ColKurtz@216.86.217.155) (Quit: Leaving)
# [03:46] <grantg> heh, paul_irish, I've been implementing the gba part of http://www.grantgalitz.org/gbatek into javascript lately. :P
# [03:52] * Quits: chriseppstein (~chrisepps@209.119.65.162) (Quit: chriseppstein)
# [03:53] * Quits: moshee (~moshee@unaffiliated/moshee) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
# [03:53] * Joins: moshee (~moshee@unaffiliated/moshee)
# [03:53] * Quits: axos411 (~axos@xdsl-78-35-158-22.netcologne.de) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [03:56] * Quits: randomubuntuguy (~randomubu@cpe-066-057-080-255.nc.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
# [04:03] * Joins: takkun1946 (~takkun@118.142.18.42)
# [04:06] * Quits: soulseekah (~null@v-49939-unlim.vpn.mgn.ru) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [04:09] * Joins: teleject (~christoph@cpe-70-112-210-24.austin.res.rr.com)
# [04:12] * Joins: dmachi1 (~dmachi@pool-71-254-71-221.ronkva.east.verizon.net)
# [04:12] * Quits: dmachi (~dmachi@pool-71-254-71-221.ronkva.east.verizon.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [04:14] * Joins: ysawej (~ysawej@c-98-248-93-248.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
# [04:27] * Quits: Lightheaded (~lighthead@195.222.6.16) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
# [04:29] * Joins: T_Zano (zanouda@41.107.223.156)
# [04:33] * Quits: pandeiro (~mu@bd21cb7c.virtua.com.br) (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7)
# [04:39] * Quits: webguynow (~webguynow@c-24-1-222-204.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
# [04:41] * Quits: Me1000 (~Me1000@74-143-218-11.static.insightbb.com) (Quit: Leaving...)
# [04:41] * Quits: grantg (~chatzilla@69.88.160.3) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.1 [Firefox 11.0/20120312181643])
# [04:43] * Quits: joepie91 (~joepie91@s514735fe.adsl.wanadoo.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [04:47] * Joins: markeg (~mark@123.16.76.225)
# [04:48] * Joins: markiavelli (~mark@123.16.76.225)
# [04:49] * Quits: markeg (~mark@123.16.76.225) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [04:49] * Quits: markiavelli (~mark@123.16.76.225) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [04:49] * Joins: markeg (~mark@123.16.76.225)
# [04:50] * Quits: teleject (~christoph@cpe-70-112-210-24.austin.res.rr.com) (Quit: teleject)
# [04:50] * Quits: Joefish (~Joefish@p4FDA89FB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
# [04:51] * Quits: ysawej (~ysawej@c-98-248-93-248.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [04:51] * Quits: diraol (~diraol@189.38.131.49) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [04:58] * Parts: min|dvir|us (~dan@unaffiliated/mindvirus)
# [04:59] * Joins: joepie91 (~joepie91@s514735fe.adsl.wanadoo.nl)
# [05:01] * Quits: globbot (~logbot@shell-staging.glob.com.au) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [05:01] * Joins: globbot (~logbot@shell-staging.glob.com.au)
# [05:03] * Quits: Vennril (~vennril@p4FCB087D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
# [05:03] * Joins: Vennril (~vennril@p4FCB070F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
# [05:03] * Joins: Me1000 (~Me1000@74-143-221-12.static.insightbb.com)
# [05:06] * Joins: QiBala (~QiBala@nodester.com)
# [05:08] * Joins: gavin_huang (~gravof@125.116.173.180)
# [05:16] * Joins: dr0id (~andy@unaffiliated/dr0id)
# [05:21] * Joins: teleject (~christoph@cpe-70-112-210-24.austin.res.rr.com)
# [05:30] * Joins: roadt (~roadt@60.168.95.167)
# [05:33] * Joins: nickcooley (~tandemsev@2002:3285:849f:0:f50d:21c2:acd:292a)
# [05:33] * Quits: ncooley (~tandemsev@2002:3285:849f:0:1ea:a976:ac03:41a8) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
# [05:33] * nickcooley is now known as ncooley
# [05:36] * Quits: jn (~jn@aurorum104-0.aurorum.se) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
# [05:37] * Quits: jimmyrcom (~fold@adsl-75-53-33-55.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
# [05:37] * Joins: jn (~jn@aurorum104-0.aurorum.se)
# [05:41] * Quits: BrentD (~BrentD@c-71-197-202-44.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [05:41] * Quits: joepie91 (~joepie91@s514735fe.adsl.wanadoo.nl) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [05:43] * Joins: cccaldas_ (~cccaldas@177.98.112.167)
# [05:46] * Quits: cccaldas (~cccaldas@177.17.95.193) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
# [05:47] * Joins: Demp (Demp@bzq-79-182-196-21.red.bezeqint.net)
# [05:47] * Quits: Demp (Demp@bzq-79-182-196-21.red.bezeqint.net) (Changing host)
# [05:47] * Joins: Demp (Demp@unaffiliated/demp)
# [05:55] * Joins: tung (~tung@218.108.94.243)
# [05:58] * Joins: joepie91 (~joepie91@s514735fe.adsl.wanadoo.nl)
# [06:00] * Quits: tung (~tung@218.108.94.243)
# [06:01] * Joins: tung (~tung@218.108.94.243)
# [06:02] * Quits: cccaldas_ (~cccaldas@177.98.112.167) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
# [06:03] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-215-74.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [06:10] * Joins: vsw (~inVincibl@186.sub-174-252-156.myvzw.com)
# [06:10] <vsw> Does HTML5 do away with Flash?
# [06:10] * Joins: Lightheaded (~lighthead@195.222.6.16)
# [06:22] * Quits: takkun1946 (~takkun@118.142.18.42) (Quit: leaving)
# [06:22] * Joins: joaojeronimo (~joaojeron@97.76.136.95.rev.vodafone.pt)
# [06:23] <joaojeronimo> When using html5 form validation, how can I know if the everything is valid before submission ?
# [06:24] <joaojeronimo> Also, I'm using a submit button that when clicked runs a function that gets the values of the fields of the form and posts them... But that POST request can happen even if the fields are not valid... how do I avoid that ?
# [06:24] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@199.188.193.145)
# [06:27] * Quits: QiBala (~QiBala@nodester.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
# [06:29] <ryanseddon> joaojeronimo: you can do form.checkValidity()
# [06:29] <joaojeronimo> thanks ryanseddon :D
# [06:29] <ryanseddon> form being the element reference
# [06:29] <ryanseddon> that also works on individual fields
# [06:30] * Joins: joepie92 (~joepie91@s514735fe.adsl.wanadoo.nl)
# [06:30] <joaojeronimo> yes I figured
# [06:31] * Quits: joepie91 (~joepie91@s514735fe.adsl.wanadoo.nl) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
# [06:32] * Quits: JNZ (~JNZ@unaffiliated/jnz) (Quit: Leaving)
# [06:32] <tw2113> evening ryanseddon
# [06:33] * Parts: vsw (~inVincibl@186.sub-174-252-156.myvzw.com)
# [06:34] <JonathanNeal> Hello
# [06:35] <tw2113> evening JonathanNeal
# [06:35] <JonathanNeal> How are you tw2113 how is your week going?
# [06:35] * Quits: Bass10 (~Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [06:35] <tw2113> eh, about usual
# [06:35] <tw2113> i'm kind of taking today off
# [06:36] * Joins: Moonies (~Bongle@unaffiliated/moonies)
# [06:38] <tw2113> i got paid for some stuff today, so i got myself some beer :D
# [06:40] * Joins: gyzmodo (x@89.146.109.99)
# [06:42] <JonathanNeal> all right.
# [06:42] <JonathanNeal> enjoy the weekend?
# [06:45] * Joins: JNZ (JNZ@unaffiliated/jnz)
# [06:46] <JonathanNeal> After you have guaranteed that a font has been loaded, what is the extra delay for in a browser? Is there really any way to know the font is loaded?
# [06:47] <JonathanNeal> I have the same problem even if i've put an element on a page with the font family and loaded in the font base64 encoded into the stylesheet.
# [06:54] * Joins: Reite (~chris@213.109-247-20.customer.lyse.net)
# [06:57] * Quits: gavin_huang (~gravof@125.116.173.180) (Quit: Leaving)
# [06:57] * Joins: venom00ut (~venom00@net-188-218-168-8.cust.dsl.vodafone.it)
# [06:57] * Quits: venom00ut (~venom00@net-188-218-168-8.cust.dsl.vodafone.it) (Changing host)
# [06:57] * Joins: venom00ut (~venom00@unaffiliated/venom00)
# [06:58] * Joins: gavin_huang (~gravof@125.116.173.180)
# [06:59] * Quits: moshee (~moshee@unaffiliated/moshee) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
# [07:00] * Joins: moshee (~moshee@c-50-135-229-127.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
# [07:00] * Quits: moshee (~moshee@c-50-135-229-127.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Changing host)
# [07:00] * Joins: moshee (~moshee@unaffiliated/moshee)
# [07:03] * Quits: Lightheaded (~lighthead@195.222.6.16) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
# [07:06] * Quits: kadiks (~kadiks@APuteaux-652-1-63-157.w83-204.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Leaving)
# [07:09] * Quits: caniuse (~caniuse@li239-175.members.linode.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [07:09] * Joins: caniuse (~caniuse@li239-175.members.linode.com)
# [07:09] * Joins: bhunt (~zixiz@S0106602ad0847293.vw.shawcable.net)
# [07:10] * Joins: ontime (~ontime@unaffiliated/ontime)
# [07:13] * Quits: moshee (~moshee@unaffiliated/moshee) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
# [07:17] * Quits: venom00ut (~venom00@unaffiliated/venom00) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
# [07:18] * Joins: Lightheaded (~lighthead@195.222.6.16)
# [07:18] * Quits: T_Zano (zanouda@41.107.223.156) (Quit: T_Zano)
# [07:20] * Joins: moshee (~moshee@unaffiliated/moshee)
# [07:20] * Quits: Me1000 (~Me1000@74-143-221-12.static.insightbb.com) (Quit: Leaving...)
# [07:21] * Joins: tw2113_as_well (~tw2113@host-174-42-107-208.midco.net)
# [07:22] * Quits: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
# [07:24] * tw2113_as_well is now known as tw2113
# [07:25] * Quits: tw2113 (~tw2113@host-174-42-107-208.midco.net) (Changing host)
# [07:25] * Joins: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113)
# [07:27] * Quits: nonge (~nonge@p5082B047.dip.t-dialin.net) (Quit: Verlassend)
# [07:33] * Quits: welly (~welly@unaffiliated/welly) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
# [07:35] * Quits: jochen__ (jochen@nat/google/x-vgrasseqqzhuzqdx) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [07:35] * Joins: jochen__ (jochen@nat/google/x-gqtetpjkmbrwhgyo)
# [07:49] * Quits: patcito (~123@190.232.183.70) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [07:49] * Quits: coeus (~coeus@dslb-084-061-056-177.pools.arcor-ip.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
# [07:49] * Joins: nonge (~nonge@p5082A691.dip.t-dialin.net)
# [07:50] * Joins: venom00ut (~venom00@109.116.209.190)
# [07:50] * Quits: venom00ut (~venom00@109.116.209.190) (Changing host)
# [07:50] * Joins: venom00ut (~venom00@unaffiliated/venom00)
# [07:53] * Joins: Evanescence (~Evanescen@60.183.198.252)
# [07:55] * Quits: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113) (Read error: Operation timed out)
# [07:56] * Quits: schnoomac (~schnoomac@melbourne.99cluster.com) (Quit: schnoomac)
# [07:58] * Quits: Evanescence (~Evanescen@60.183.198.252) (Client Quit)
# [07:59] * Joins: Evanescence (~Evanescen@60.183.198.252)
# [07:59] * Quits: Reite (~chris@213.109-247-20.customer.lyse.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
# [07:59] * Joins: soee (~soee@83-238-167-52.ip.netia.com.pl)
# [08:00] * Quits: markeg (~mark@123.16.76.225) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [08:04] * Quits: Evanescence (~Evanescen@60.183.198.252) (Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/)
# [08:04] * Joins: machiolate (~thetentma@cpe-98-154-161-205.socal.res.rr.com)
# [08:06] * Quits: Moonies (~Bongle@unaffiliated/moonies) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
# [08:07] * Joins: Moonies (~Bongle@unaffiliated/moonies)
# [08:10] * Joins: sean` (~seankoole@D97A9E4C.cm-3-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
# [08:10] * Joins: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113)
# [08:13] * Joins: manuchill (~mstalfoor@81.69.16.186)
# [08:14] <manuchill> paul_irish, u there?
# [08:21] * Joins: NoNMaDDeN (~NoNMaDDeN@183.89.117.148)
# [08:21] <NoNMaDDeN> hello html5
# [08:21] <NoNMaDDeN> เอิ๊กๆๆ
# [08:21] * Quits: Eneerge (~Eneerge@unaffiliated/eneerge) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
# [08:21] * Parts: NoNMaDDeN (~NoNMaDDeN@183.89.117.148)
# [08:22] * Joins: decthomas (decthomas@nat/netlash/x-rjspvfkiofsojmuq)
# [08:23] * Quits: dr0id (~andy@unaffiliated/dr0id) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
# [08:23] * Quits: venom00ut (~venom00@unaffiliated/venom00) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [08:23] * Joins: venom00ut (~venom00@109.116.185.37)
# [08:23] * Quits: venom00ut (~venom00@109.116.185.37) (Changing host)
# [08:23] * Joins: venom00ut (~venom00@unaffiliated/venom00)
# [08:25] * Joins: BigKing (~BigKing@dslb-094-221-101-137.pools.arcor-ip.net)
# [08:26] * Joins: roel (~quassel@d54C236E3.access.telenet.be)
# [08:27] * Joins: dirkpennings (~dirkpenni@90-145-26-140.bbserv.nl)
# [08:27] * Quits: Luxx_ (~highoh@c-67-171-35-186.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
# [08:28] * Joins: niloy (~niloy@61.12.96.242)
# [08:30] * Joins: Evanescence (~Evanescen@60.183.198.252)
# [08:33] * Joins: karega (~karegaani@rrcs-97-76-224-197.se.biz.rr.com)
# [08:33] * Quits: DroidFreeman (~thrillho@c-24-98-246-138.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [08:33] * Quits: caasiHuang (~caasiHuan@59-126-203-62.HINET-IP.hinet.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [08:36] * Joins: PalleZingmark (~Adium@217.13.228.226)
# [08:37] * Quits: Evanescence (~Evanescen@60.183.198.252) (Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/)
# [08:39] * Joins: Shusshu (~shu@ip51cd1542.speed.planet.nl)
# [08:44] * Joins: zeppo (~zeppo@109.58.15.141.bredband.tre.se)
# [08:44] * Joins: rasa (~rasa@pool-108-38-85-3.lsanca.fios.verizon.net)
# [08:45] <machiolate> does anyone have suggestions on where to get image based backgrounds from?
# [08:45] <machiolate> trying to make a website .... but not sure where i should be looking
# [08:47] * Quits: rasa (~rasa@pool-108-38-85-3.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [08:49] * Joins: x12 (~x@host-87-75-138-130.dslgb.com)
# [08:49] <tw2113> iamge based backgrounds?
# [08:49] * Quits: Shusshu (~shu@ip51cd1542.speed.planet.nl)
# [08:51] * Quits: venom00ut (~venom00@unaffiliated/venom00) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
# [08:52] * Quits: BigKing (~BigKing@dslb-094-221-101-137.pools.arcor-ip.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [08:58] * Joins: x12_ (~x@94.197.127.233.threembb.co.uk)
# [08:59] * Quits: x12 (~x@host-87-75-138-130.dslgb.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [08:59] * x12_ is now known as x12
# [09:02] * Quits: zeppo (~zeppo@109.58.15.141.bredband.tre.se) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [09:06] * Joins: x12_ (~x@host-87-75-138-130.dslgb.com)
# [09:09] * Joins: x12__ (~x@92.40.254.237.threembb.co.uk)
# [09:10] * Quits: x12__ (~x@92.40.254.237.threembb.co.uk) (Client Quit)
# [09:10] * Quits: x12 (~x@94.197.127.233.threembb.co.uk) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
# [09:11] * Quits: x12_ (~x@host-87-75-138-130.dslgb.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
# [09:14] * Joins: drublic (~drublic@frbg-5f733ebf.pool.mediaWays.net)
# [09:15] * Joins: Valah_ (~Valah@AOrleans-258-1-117-15.w90-21.abo.wanadoo.fr)
# [09:18] * Quits: Vennril (~vennril@p4FCB070F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [09:18] * Quits: Valah (~Valah@AOrleans-258-1-96-156.w90-24.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [09:19] * Joins: jetienne (~jerome@ivr94-6-82-230-255-246.fbx.proxad.net)
# [09:19] * Joins: g105b (~g105b@cpc3-derb14-2-0-cust187.8-3.cable.virginmedia.com)
# [09:19] * Joins: monteslu_ (~monteslu@ip68-109-174-213.ph.ph.cox.net)
# [09:20] * Joins: markeg (~mark@123.16.76.225)
# [09:21] * Quits: monteslu (~monteslu@ip68-109-174-213.ph.ph.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
# [09:21] * Joins: Vennril (~vennril@p4FCB070F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
# [09:22] * Quits: saschagehlich (~sascha@p579319C5.dip.t-dialin.net) (Quit: saschagehlich)
# [09:24] * Joins: xec_ (~xec@2a00:10b0:1:1002:5ab0:35ff:fef8:6a01)
# [09:26] * Joins: aesptux (~aesptux@213.37.205.217.dyn.user.ono.com)
# [09:26] * Quits: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [09:28] * Joins: venom00ut (~venom00@fw-necst.elet.polimi.it)
# [09:28] * Quits: venom00ut (~venom00@fw-necst.elet.polimi.it) (Changing host)
# [09:28] * Joins: venom00ut (~venom00@unaffiliated/venom00)
# [09:34] * Joins: glcrazy (~SiRiuS@rdslink-v90-240.suceava.rdsnet.ro)
# [09:40] * Joins: tw2113 (~tw2113@host-174-42-107-208.midco.net)
# [09:40] * Quits: tw2113 (~tw2113@host-174-42-107-208.midco.net) (Changing host)
# [09:40] * Joins: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113)
# [09:40] * Joins: Eneerge (~Eneerge@cpe-66-25-31-185.tx.res.rr.com)
# [09:41] * Quits: Armen138 (~armen@dsl-69-171-154-4.acanac.net) (Quit: Lost terminal)
# [09:47] * Quits: glcrazy (~SiRiuS@rdslink-v90-240.suceava.rdsnet.ro) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [09:47] * Joins: whitman (whitman@itsad-034.its.dur.ac.uk)
# [09:48] * Joins: x12 (~x@92.40.254.237.threembb.co.uk)
# [09:52] * Joins: jblanche (~jblanche@ivr94-10-88-177-169-11.fbx.proxad.net)
# [09:56] * Quits: oohnoitz (septicore@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-rzuselkjsoqwumcq) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [09:57] * Joins: oohnoitz (septicore@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-mxtrwohxtzzigpae)
# [10:01] * Joins: glcrazy (~SiRiuS@rdslink-v90-240.suceava.rdsnet.ro)
# [10:01] * Quits: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113) (Quit: I was raided by the FBI and all I got to keep was this lousy quit message!)
# [10:04] * Joins: eliocapella (~eliocapel@213.37.148.216.static.user.ono.com)
# [10:13] * Joins: Taftse (Taftse@unaffiliated/taftse)
# [10:14] * Joins: Shahor (~Shahor@78.109.80.22)
# [10:15] * Quits: venom00ut (~venom00@unaffiliated/venom00) (Read error: Operation timed out)
# [10:19] * Quits: obert- (~obert@host250-205-dynamic.1-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [10:21] * Joins: obert- (~obert@host11-207-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
# [10:21] * Joins: saschagehlich (~sascha@pd956d4e0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
# [10:21] * Quits: Eneerge (~Eneerge@cpe-66-25-31-185.tx.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
# [10:21] * Joins: DaFireball (~dirkpenni@90-145-26-140.bbserv.nl)
# [10:23] * Quits: dirkpennings (~dirkpenni@90-145-26-140.bbserv.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
# [10:26] * Joins: JakeA (~Adium@93-97-17-15.zone5.bethere.co.uk)
# [10:26] * Joins: shwetank (~shwetank@guest.opera.com)
# [10:33] * Joins: csmrfx (csmr@hilla.kapsi.fi)
# [10:33] <csmrfx> Whats a nice solution for getting layers to rise above flash-animations on page?
# [10:35] <manuchill> flash should at least be embedded with the wmode=opaque or wmode=transparent param
# [10:35] <manuchill> else you cant display layers on top of flash
# [10:39] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@guest.opera.com)
# [10:41] <csmrfx> I wonder if it is possible to manipulate the wmode of an embedded object with js on the page?
# [10:42] <manuchill> not sure, you could try and make a testcase to see
# [10:44] * Quits: g105b (~g105b@cpc3-derb14-2-0-cust187.8-3.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [10:44] <csmrfx> ok, I better
# [10:44] <csmrfx> thanks for the insight, manuchill
# [10:46] <manuchill> csmrfx, np... maybe this could give you a headstart http://www.onlineaspect.com/2009/08/13/javascript_to_fix_wmode_parameters/
# [10:48] * Joins: MisterSpeaker (~MisterSpe@zenexity.pck.nerim.net)
# [10:49] * Quits: DaFireball (~dirkpenni@90-145-26-140.bbserv.nl) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
# [10:50] <csmrfx> ok nice thx
# [10:51] * Quits: jetienne (~jerome@ivr94-6-82-230-255-246.fbx.proxad.net) (Quit: jetienne)
# [10:53] * Joins: B3Jesus (~B3Jesus@cpc6-wolv15-2-0-cust412.wolv.cable.virginmedia.com)
# [10:56] * Joins: louisremi (~louisremi@mon69-3-87-90-54-237.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr)
# [10:59] * Joins: dirkpennings (~dirkpenni@90-145-26-140.bbserv.nl)
# [11:03] * Joins: necolas (~necolas@5ade73f0.bb.sky.com)
# [11:05] * Joins: MrJ (~boogy@unaffiliated/mrj)
# [11:05] * Quits: machiolate (~thetentma@cpe-98-154-161-205.socal.res.rr.com) (Quit: Leaving)
# [11:07] * Quits: boogyman (~boogy@72.184.194.26) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [11:08] * Joins: boogyman (~boogy@pdpc/supporter/professional/boogyman)
# [11:11] * Joins: machine2 (~machine4@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net)
# [11:11] * Quits: MrJ (~boogy@unaffiliated/mrj) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
# [11:13] * Quits: saschagehlich (~sascha@pd956d4e0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [11:16] * Joins: jetienne (~jerome@ivr94-6-82-230-255-246.fbx.proxad.net)
# [11:18] * Quits: x12 (~x@92.40.254.237.threembb.co.uk) (Quit: Adios Amigos!)
# [11:22] * Joins: debsan (~debsan@190.245.74.16)
# [11:24] * Joins: BigKing (~BigKing@dslb-094-221-101-137.pools.arcor-ip.net)
# [11:27] * Quits: Moonies (~Bongle@unaffiliated/moonies) (Quit: quack)
# [11:33] * Joins: mr_lou (~sirlou@0x555321d8.adsl.cybercity.dk)
# [11:33] * Quits: manuchill (~mstalfoor@81.69.16.186) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [11:37] * Quits: Progster (~blah@pool-173-68-149-113.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
# [11:38] * Quits: Zauberfisch (Zauberfisc@venus.zauberfisch.at) (Quit: Leaving)
# [11:38] * Joins: Joefish (~Joefish@p4FDA88D9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
# [11:38] * Joins: Zauberfisch (Subject619@venus.zauberfisch.at)
# [11:39] * Quits: jetienne (~jerome@ivr94-6-82-230-255-246.fbx.proxad.net) (Quit: jetienne)
# [11:46] * Joins: manuchill (~mstalfoor@81.69.16.186)
# [11:49] * Joins: Ron_D (~Chevalric@77.242.116.2)
# [11:52] * Quits: joaojeronimo (~joaojeron@97.76.136.95.rev.vodafone.pt) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
# [11:55] * Joins: pinage404 (~pinage404@APuteaux-651-1-20-42.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr)
# [11:57] * Joins: ruimarinho (~ruimarinh@a89-152-184-82.cpe.netcabo.pt)
# [11:57] * Quits: JNZ (JNZ@unaffiliated/jnz) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [12:06] * Quits: mascix (~opakdil@83.66.110.192) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [12:06] * Joins: addyosmani (~addyosman@host86-176-150-45.range86-176.btcentralplus.com)
# [12:07] * Joins: nonge_ (~nonge@p50829FFE.dip.t-dialin.net)
# [12:11] * Joins: rodfersou (bb3e080a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.187.62.8.10)
# [12:11] * Quits: nonge (~nonge@p5082A691.dip.t-dialin.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
# [12:13] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@199.188.193.145) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [12:15] * Joins: x12 (~x@94.197.127.11.threembb.co.uk)
# [12:15] * Joins: devongovett (~devongove@212-147-52-64.fix.access.vtx.ch)
# [12:19] * Quits: Valah_ (~Valah@AOrleans-258-1-117-15.w90-21.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [12:21] * Joins: aljosa (~aljosa@212.92.197.106)
# [12:23] * Quits: glcrazy (~SiRiuS@rdslink-v90-240.suceava.rdsnet.ro) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [12:26] * Quits: x12 (~x@94.197.127.11.threembb.co.uk) (Quit: Adios Amigos!)
# [12:36] * Joins: iserantes (~quassel@1.10.27.77.dynamic.mundo-r.com)
# [12:38] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@50-0-133-210.dsl.static.sonic.net)
# [12:41] * Quits: shwetank (~shwetank@guest.opera.com) (Quit: Leaving...)
# [12:42] * Joins: caasiHuang (~caasiHuan@59-126-203-62.HINET-IP.hinet.net)
# [12:55] * dhruvasagar_ is now known as dhruvasagar
# [12:57] * Quits: tung (~tung@218.108.94.243) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [12:59] * Joins: digitalfiz (~fiz@unaffiliated/digitalfiz)
# [13:01] * Quits: dhruvasagar (~dhruvasag@65.98.79.137) (Excess Flood)
# [13:01] * Joins: dhruvasagar (~dhruvasag@65.98.79.137)
# [13:05] * Joins: mascix (~opakdil@88.247.87.27)
# [13:06] * Joins: shwetank (~shwetank@guest.opera.com)
# [13:06] * Quits: shwetank (~shwetank@guest.opera.com) (Client Quit)
# [13:06] * Joins: Progster (~blah@pool-173-68-149-113.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
# [13:07] * Quits: pinage404 (~pinage404@APuteaux-651-1-20-42.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
# [13:10] * Joins: plh_ (~plh@209-6-123-224.c3-0.arl-ubr1.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com)
# [13:12] * Joins: andr3 (~andr3@194.65.5.235)
# [13:12] * Joins: devmikey (~irc@unaffiliated/devmikey)
# [13:12] * Joins: shwetank (~shwetank@guest.opera.com)
# [13:13] * Joins: ericbarnes (~ericbarne@cpe-075-181-047-014.carolina.res.rr.com)
# [13:14] * Quits: karega (~karegaani@rrcs-97-76-224-197.se.biz.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
# [13:15] * Joins: erichynds (~ehynds@64.206.121.41)
# [13:17] * Quits: Progster (~blah@pool-173-68-149-113.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [13:19] * Joins: pinage404 (~pinage404@APuteaux-651-1-60-188.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr)
# [13:23] * Joins: SoulRaven (SoulRaven@89.41.157.171)
# [13:23] * Quits: pinage404 (~pinage404@APuteaux-651-1-60-188.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Client Quit)
# [13:23] * Joins: Lightheaded_ (~lighthead@195.222.6.16)
# [13:23] * Quits: teleject (~christoph@cpe-70-112-210-24.austin.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
# [13:27] * Quits: Lightheaded (~lighthead@195.222.6.16) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
# [13:28] <remysharp> Is jaffathecake in here? JakeA ?
# [13:30] * Quits: Lightheaded_ (~lighthead@195.222.6.16) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
# [13:32] * Joins: thinkpad_explore (~automate@tok69-4-82-236-110-224.fbx.proxad.net)
# [13:35] <JakeA> yo
# [13:35] <JakeA> yes
# [13:35] * Joins: cccaldas (~cccaldas@177.17.17.39)
# [13:35] * Quits: addyosmani (~addyosman@host86-176-150-45.range86-176.btcentralplus.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [13:36] * Joins: tertl3 (~tertl3@108-85-17-207.lightspeed.gnvlsc.sbcglobal.net)
# [13:36] * Joins: Stava (~Stava@h-86-113.a197.priv.bahnhof.se)
# [13:38] * Quits: louisremi (~louisremi@mon69-3-87-90-54-237.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
# [13:39] * Joins: Conti_ (~Conti@211.51.27.44)
# [13:39] * Quits: Conti (~Conti@211.51.27.44) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
# [13:39] * Conti_ is now known as Conti
# [13:40] * Quits: tertl3 (~tertl3@108-85-17-207.lightspeed.gnvlsc.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [13:41] * Quits: xec_ (~xec@2a00:10b0:1:1002:5ab0:35ff:fef8:6a01) (Read error: Operation timed out)
# [13:41] * Joins: xec_ (~xec@2a00:10b0:1:1002:5ab0:35ff:fef8:6a01)
# [13:43] * Joins: cccaldas_ (~cccaldas@177.41.238.92)
# [13:44] * Joins: Armen_ (~armen@dsl-69-171-154-4.acanac.net)
# [13:45] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@guest.opera.com) (Quit: Leaving...)
# [13:45] * Armen_ is now known as Armen138
# [13:46] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@guest.opera.com)
# [13:46] * Quits: cccaldas (~cccaldas@177.17.17.39) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
# [13:47] * Joins: snearch (~snearch@g225077214.adsl.alicedsl.de)
# [13:48] * Quits: moshee (~moshee@unaffiliated/moshee) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
# [13:48] * Joins: moshee (~moshee@c-50-135-229-127.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
# [13:48] * Quits: moshee (~moshee@c-50-135-229-127.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Changing host)
# [13:48] * Joins: moshee (~moshee@unaffiliated/moshee)
# [13:49] * Quits: shwetank (~shwetank@guest.opera.com) (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
# [13:51] * Joins: tung (~tung@58.101.99.148)
# [13:52] * Joins: extrawelt (~extrawelt@200.185.252.187)
# [13:55] * Joins: icrazyhack (horieyui@115.173.249.104)
# [13:57] * Joins: sarro (~sarro@i5E864D6C.versanet.de)
# [13:58] * Joins: Bass10 (Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
# [14:08] * Joins: jetienne (~jerome@ivr94-6-82-230-255-246.fbx.proxad.net)
# [14:09] * Joins: Eneerge (~Eneerge@cpe-66-25-31-185.tx.res.rr.com)
# [14:12] * Joins: trond_ (~trond@c-8b0ae353.017-188-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)
# [14:13] * Joins: louisremi (~louisremi@mon69-3-87-90-54-237.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr)
# [14:14] * Joins: shwetank (~shwetank@guest.opera.com)
# [14:15] * Joins: jimmyrcom (~fold@adsl-75-53-33-55.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net)
# [14:16] * Quits: Joefish (~Joefish@p4FDA88D9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [14:18] * Parts: jetienne (~jerome@ivr94-6-82-230-255-246.fbx.proxad.net)
# [14:22] * Joins: carminec (~user@4-76-252-216.dsl.colba.net)
# [14:23] * Quits: Eneerge (~Eneerge@cpe-66-25-31-185.tx.res.rr.com) (Changing host)
# [14:23] * Joins: Eneerge (~Eneerge@unaffiliated/eneerge)
# [14:27] * Joins: johnkpaul (~johnkpaul@ool-6c3abe9a.static.optonline.net)
# [14:28] * Quits: nemrod (~nemrod@unaffiliated/nemrod) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
# [14:29] * Joins: jetienne (~jerome@ivr94-6-82-230-255-246.fbx.proxad.net)
# [14:31] * Quits: gyzmodo (x@89.146.109.99) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
# [14:31] * Joins: gyzmodo (x@89.146.106.82)
# [14:32] * Joins: Dusan (~Adium@82.117.199.26)
# [14:33] * Joins: bot-t1 (~bot-t@unaffiliated/temp01/bot/bot-t)
# [14:33] * Quits: bot-t (~bot-t@unaffiliated/temp01/bot/bot-t) (Disconnected by services)
# [14:33] * Quits: bot-t1 (~bot-t@unaffiliated/temp01/bot/bot-t) (Excess Flood)
# [14:33] * Quits: temp02 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
# [14:34] * Joins: temp01 (~temp01@unaffiliated/temp01)
# [14:34] * Joins: nemrod (~nemrod@unaffiliated/nemrod)
# [14:35] * Quits: MisterSpeaker (~MisterSpe@zenexity.pck.nerim.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [14:35] * Joins: MisterSpeaker (~MisterSpe@zenexity.pck.nerim.net)
# [14:37] * Joins: bot-t (~bot-t@unaffiliated/temp01/bot/bot-t)
# [14:37] * Joins: Jon47 (~Adium@pool-74-96-160-56.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
# [14:42] <StoneCypher> in the sense that you can detect a user's language preferences from the http headers, is there any way to detect 501 topics? can a user declare colorblindness in a way that i can purposefully react to, eg? or deafness (maybe I need to turn captions on on the video automatically, etc) ?
# [14:51] * Joins: zeppo (~zeppo@109.58.53.118.bredband.tre.se)
# [14:51] * Joins: pandeiro (~mu@189.62.31.89)
# [14:52] * Joins: glcrazy (~SiRiuS@rdslink-v90-240.suceava.rdsnet.ro)
# [14:52] * Parts: ncooley (~tandemsev@2002:3285:849f:0:f50d:21c2:acd:292a)
# [14:53] * Joins: marcoos (~marcoos@207.86.128.119)
# [14:53] * Parts: marcoos (~marcoos@207.86.128.119)
# [14:57] * Quits: BigKing (~BigKing@dslb-094-221-101-137.pools.arcor-ip.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [15:00] * monteslu_ is now known as monteslu
# [15:02] * Joins: Jayflux (4d2c180a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.44.24.10)
# [15:03] <Jayflux> does anyone know if its possible to make something like this fluid: http://erpfans.co.uk/test/
# [15:03] <Jayflux> currently the #main div needs to have a fixed width for this to work. I have no idea why but when i remove the width value the sections fall underneath each other.
# [15:05] * Joins: webguynow (~webguynow@c-24-1-222-204.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
# [15:09] * Jayflux is now known as jamie_14
# [15:11] * Joins: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com)
# [15:12] * theresa_away is now known as theresanna
# [15:12] * theresanna is now known as theresaanna
# [15:14] * Joins: krater (~benito@189.71.72.188)
# [15:14] * Quits: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) (Client Quit)
# [15:14] * Joins: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com)
# [15:15] * Parts: krater (~benito@189.71.72.188)
# [15:15] * Joins: Jonadabe (~Jonadabe@bl9-57-8.dsl.telepac.pt)
# [15:16] * Joins: venom00ut (~venom00@109.114.50.28)
# [15:16] * Quits: venom00ut (~venom00@109.114.50.28) (Changing host)
# [15:16] * Joins: venom00ut (~venom00@unaffiliated/venom00)
# [15:17] * Joins: fungoat (~fungoat@rrcs-24-73-238-17.se.biz.rr.com)
# [15:18] * Quits: fungoat (~fungoat@rrcs-24-73-238-17.se.biz.rr.com) (Client Quit)
# [15:23] * Joins: kevwil (~kevwil@c-67-161-153-2.hsd1.co.comcast.net)
# [15:27] * Quits: pitchfork (~pitchfork@unaffiliated/pitchfork) (Read error: Operation timed out)
# [15:28] * Joins: roadt_ (~roadt@114.96.142.225)
# [15:28] * Quits: Taftse (Taftse@unaffiliated/taftse) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
# [15:28] * Joins: Trisox (~Trisox@dw87236798.amsterdam-tc.dataweb.net)
# [15:29] * Joins: Dusan1 (~Adium@93-87-213-144.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs)
# [15:31] * Quits: roadt (~roadt@60.168.95.167) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
# [15:31] * Quits: snearch (~snearch@g225077214.adsl.alicedsl.de) (Quit: Verlassend)
# [15:32] * Quits: monteslu (~monteslu@ip68-109-174-213.ph.ph.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
# [15:33] * Quits: plh_ (~plh@209-6-123-224.c3-0.arl-ubr1.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
# [15:33] * Quits: Dusan (~Adium@82.117.199.26) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
# [15:36] * Joins: Jackneill (~Jackneill@unaffiliated/jackneill)
# [15:37] * Quits: fleeting (~fleeting@rrcs-67-79-88-162.sw.biz.rr.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [15:38] * Joins: fleeting (~fleeting@rrcs-67-79-88-162.sw.biz.rr.com)
# [15:38] * Joins: BreadMaker (~BreadMake@pc-209-23-160-190.cm.vtr.net)
# [15:40] * Parts: kevwil (~kevwil@c-67-161-153-2.hsd1.co.comcast.net) ("WeeChat 0.3.7")
# [15:41] * Joins: pitchfork (~pitchfork@unaffiliated/pitchfork)
# [15:44] * Quits: ccohn (~ccohn@198.151.217.180) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
# [15:54] * Quits: caasiHuang (~caasiHuan@59-126-203-62.HINET-IP.hinet.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [15:56] * Quits: oohnoitz (septicore@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-mxtrwohxtzzigpae) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
# [15:57] * Joins: Me1000 (~Me1000@128.163.7.132)
# [15:58] * Quits: techrush (~techrush@cpe-76-175-29-57.socal.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [16:00] * Quits: jetienne (~jerome@ivr94-6-82-230-255-246.fbx.proxad.net) (Quit: jetienne)
# [16:00] * Joins: oohnoitz (septicore@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-yfudmhwsawuezcho)
# [16:01] * Joins: cloudpopup (hidden-use@ns.netset.se)
# [16:02] * Joins: pawel__ (~pawel@41-133-87-200.dsl.mweb.co.za)
# [16:05] * Quits: pawel__ (~pawel@41-133-87-200.dsl.mweb.co.za) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [16:05] * roadt_ is now known as roadt
# [16:05] * Joins: MEMutable1000 (~Me1000@128.163.7.132)
# [16:05] * Joins: randomubuntuguy (~randomubu@cpe-066-057-080-255.nc.res.rr.com)
# [16:07] * Quits: soee (~soee@83-238-167-52.ip.netia.com.pl) (Quit: Wychodzi)
# [16:07] * Quits: Jon47 (~Adium@pool-74-96-160-56.washdc.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [16:08] * Quits: oohnoitz (septicore@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-yfudmhwsawuezcho) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
# [16:08] * Quits: Me1000 (~Me1000@128.163.7.132) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
# [16:11] * Quits: B3Jesus (~B3Jesus@cpc6-wolv15-2-0-cust412.wolv.cable.virginmedia.com) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
# [16:12] * Quits: dmachi1 (~dmachi@pool-71-254-71-221.ronkva.east.verizon.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [16:12] * Quits: cccaldas_ (~cccaldas@177.41.238.92) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [16:12] * Joins: dmachi (~dmachi@pool-71-254-71-221.ronkva.east.verizon.net)
# [16:12] * Joins: oohnoitz (septicore@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-apuodyllxyuzmxan)
# [16:13] * Quits: MisterSpeaker (~MisterSpe@zenexity.pck.nerim.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [16:13] * Joins: cccaldas (~cccaldas@187.59.111.136)
# [16:13] * Quits: shwetank (~shwetank@guest.opera.com) (Quit: Leaving...)
# [16:13] * Joins: x12 (~x@94.197.127.11.threembb.co.uk)
# [16:15] * Quits: machine2 (~machine4@pool-74-111-197-200.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: LANSD)
# [16:15] * Quits: aesptux (~aesptux@213.37.205.217.dyn.user.ono.com) (Quit: Leaving)
# [16:15] * Joins: trumpetmic (~trumpetmi@159.182.183.6)
# [16:15] * Joins: caasiHuang (~caasiHuan@59-126-203-62.HINET-IP.hinet.net)
# [16:15] * Joins: Taftse (Taftse@unaffiliated/taftse)
# [16:18] * Quits: rbrooks (~jwbf75ug@gateway/tor-sasl/jwbf75ug) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [16:19] * Joins: rbrooks (~jwbf75ug@gateway/tor-sasl/jwbf75ug)
# [16:19] * Joins: shwetank (~shwetank@guest.opera.com)
# [16:22] * Joins: marcocarag (~marcocara@38.117.157.59)
# [16:22] * Quits: glcrazy (~SiRiuS@rdslink-v90-240.suceava.rdsnet.ro) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [16:22] * Joins: thcipriani (~tyler@173-14-24-158-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
# [16:25] * Quits: squeakytoy (~squeakyto@h87-96-232-107.dynamic.se.alltele.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [16:26] * Joins: squeakytoy (~squeakyto@h87-96-232-107.dynamic.se.alltele.net)
# [16:28] * Joins: FunGoat (~fungoat@rrcs-24-73-238-17.se.biz.rr.com)
# [16:28] * Quits: xec (~xec@54.109-247-17.customer.lyse.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [16:29] * xec_ is now known as xec
# [16:29] * Quits: venom00ut (~venom00@unaffiliated/venom00) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [16:31] * Joins: monteslu (~monteslu@ip68-109-174-213.ph.ph.cox.net)
# [16:33] * Joins: rileyw (~rileyw@150.252.132.17)
# [16:34] * Quits: randomubuntuguy (~randomubu@cpe-066-057-080-255.nc.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [16:34] * Joins: Me1000 (~Me1000@128.163.7.135)
# [16:35] * Quits: extrawelt (~extrawelt@200.185.252.187) (Excess Flood)
# [16:35] * Joins: extrawelt (~extrawelt@200.185.252.187)
# [16:36] * Quits: FunGoat (~fungoat@rrcs-24-73-238-17.se.biz.rr.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [16:37] * Joins: blackjid (~jidonoso@pc-120-163-47-190.cm.vtr.net)
# [16:37] * Quits: MEMutable1000 (~Me1000@128.163.7.132) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
# [16:39] * Joins: fungoat (~fungoat@rrcs-24-73-238-17.se.biz.rr.com)
# [16:40] * Parts: Dusan1 (~Adium@93-87-213-144.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs)
# [16:40] * Parts: manuchill (~mstalfoor@81.69.16.186) ("Ex-Chat")
# [16:41] * Joins: jetienne (~jerome@ivr94-6-82-230-255-246.fbx.proxad.net)
# [16:42] * Quits: fungoat (~fungoat@rrcs-24-73-238-17.se.biz.rr.com) (Quit: Ghost like Swayze.)
# [16:43] * Joins: fungoat (~fungoat@rrcs-24-73-238-17.se.biz.rr.com)
# [16:43] * Quits: oohnoitz (septicore@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-apuodyllxyuzmxan) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
# [16:46] * Quits: Me1000 (~Me1000@128.163.7.135) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
# [16:51] * Quits: fungoat (~fungoat@rrcs-24-73-238-17.se.biz.rr.com) (Quit: Ghost like Swayze.)
# [16:51] * Quits: trond_ (~trond@c-8b0ae353.017-188-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) (Quit: Lost terminal)
# [16:52] * Quits: monteslu (~monteslu@ip68-109-174-213.ph.ph.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
# [16:54] * Quits: Trisox (~Trisox@dw87236798.amsterdam-tc.dataweb.net) (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)
# [16:55] * Joins: jkimbo (9bc6745d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.155.198.116.93)
# [16:56] * Quits: joepie92 (~joepie91@s514735fe.adsl.wanadoo.nl) (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)
# [16:57] * Joins: joepie92 (~joepie91@s514735fe.adsl.wanadoo.nl)
# [16:57] * joepie92 is now known as joepie91
# [16:57] * Quits: joepie91 (~joepie91@s514735fe.adsl.wanadoo.nl) (Client Quit)
# [16:57] * Joins: joepie91 (~joepie91@s514735fe.adsl.wanadoo.nl)
# [17:00] * Joins: oohnoitz (septicore@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-mefazazdjshqoyeo)
# [17:00] * Joins: FunGoat (~fungoat@rrcs-24-73-238-17.se.biz.rr.com)
# [17:02] * Quits: aljosa (~aljosa@212.92.197.106) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [17:02] * Quits: dirkpennings (~dirkpenni@90-145-26-140.bbserv.nl) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
# [17:04] * nonge_ is now known as nonge
# [17:05] * Joins: tylerstalder (~tylerstal@c-50-131-59-86.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
# [17:06] * Joins: keithclarkcouk (~keithclar@84.19.53.21)
# [17:07] * Joins: monteslu (~monteslu@ip68-109-174-213.ph.ph.cox.net)
# [17:08] * Joins: venom00ut (~venom00@net-188-218-168-8.cust.dsl.vodafone.it)
# [17:08] * Quits: venom00ut (~venom00@net-188-218-168-8.cust.dsl.vodafone.it) (Changing host)
# [17:08] * Joins: venom00ut (~venom00@unaffiliated/venom00)
# [17:08] * Quits: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [17:09] * Joins: BigKing (~BigKing@dslb-094-221-101-137.pools.arcor-ip.net)
# [17:10] * Joins: brrutzo (~john@160.79.20.210)
# [17:11] * Quits: netkrash (~netkrash@pc-52-89-101-190.cm.vtr.net) (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep)
# [17:11] * Quits: thinkpad_explore (~automate@tok69-4-82-236-110-224.fbx.proxad.net) (Read error: Operation timed out)
# [17:12] * Quits: jetienne (~jerome@ivr94-6-82-230-255-246.fbx.proxad.net) (Quit: jetienne)
# [17:13] * Quits: trumpetmic (~trumpetmi@159.182.183.6) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [17:14] * Quits: roel (~quassel@d54C236E3.access.telenet.be) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [17:15] * Joins: trumpetmic (~trumpetmi@159.182.183.6)
# [17:17] * Joins: Eneerge_ (~Eneerge@cpe-66-25-31-185.tx.res.rr.com)
# [17:17] * Quits: monteslu (~monteslu@ip68-109-174-213.ph.ph.cox.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
# [17:18] * Quits: roadt (~roadt@114.96.142.225) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [17:19] * Quits: PalleZingmark (~Adium@217.13.228.226) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [17:19] * Joins: chriseppstein (~chrisepps@209.119.65.162)
# [17:20] * Joins: B3Jesus (~B3Jesus@cpc6-wolv15-2-0-cust412.wolv.cable.virginmedia.com)
# [17:20] * Quits: Eneerge (~Eneerge@unaffiliated/eneerge) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
# [17:24] * Joins: davidwalsh (~davidwals@24-159-240-193.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com)
# [17:24] * Joins: roadt (~roadt@114.96.142.225)
# [17:24] * Joins: kurtzhong (~kurtzhong@114.88.98.140)
# [17:25] * Joins: villain_ (~villain@187.34.237.100)
# [17:25] * Quits: zeppo (~zeppo@109.58.53.118.bredband.tre.se) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [17:25] * Joins: taylorRichie1 (~Adium@208.110.141.169)
# [17:28] * Quits: cloudpopup (hidden-use@ns.netset.se) (Quit: Leaving)
# [17:30] * Joins: diraol (~diraol@143.107.108.178)
# [17:31] * Quits: Ron_D (~Chevalric@77.242.116.2) (Quit: Ron_D)
# [17:32] * Quits: B3Jesus (~B3Jesus@cpc6-wolv15-2-0-cust412.wolv.cable.virginmedia.com) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [17:32] * Joins: stevebot (~stevebot@207.159.120.6)
# [17:33] * Joins: monteslu (~monteslu@ip68-109-174-213.ph.ph.cox.net)
# [17:34] * Quits: trumpetmic (~trumpetmi@159.182.183.6) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
# [17:35] * Joins: thinkpad_explore (~automate@78.251.9.46)
# [17:36] * Joins: B3Jesus (~B3Jesus@cpc6-wolv15-2-0-cust412.wolv.cable.virginmedia.com)
# [17:36] * Quits: keithclarkcouk (~keithclar@84.19.53.21) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [17:37] * Joins: Jon47 (~Adium@pool-74-96-160-56.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
# [17:38] * Joins: trumpetmic (~trumpetmi@159.182.183.6)
# [17:38] * Quits: kurtzhong (~kurtzhong@114.88.98.140) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
# [17:38] * Quits: dhruvasagar (~dhruvasag@65.98.79.137) (Excess Flood)
# [17:39] * Joins: kurtzhong (~kurtzhong@li317-39.members.linode.com)
# [17:40] * Joins: dhruvasagar (~dhruvasag@65.98.79.137)
# [17:42] * Joins: snearch (~snearch@g225077214.adsl.alicedsl.de)
# [17:42] * Eneerge_ is now known as Eneerge
# [17:43] * Quits: Eneerge (~Eneerge@cpe-66-25-31-185.tx.res.rr.com) (Changing host)
# [17:43] * Joins: Eneerge (~Eneerge@unaffiliated/eneerge)
# [17:43] * Quits: drublic (~drublic@frbg-5f733ebf.pool.mediaWays.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [17:45] * Quits: caasiHuang (~caasiHuan@59-126-203-62.HINET-IP.hinet.net) (Read error: Connection timed out)
# [17:45] * Joins: ParanoidGal (~ParanoidG@host86-130-44-97.range86-130.btcentralplus.com)
# [17:45] * Joins: Jesdisciple (~Jesdiscip@64-132-236-106.static.twtelecom.net)
# [17:46] * Joins: caasiHuang (~caasiHuan@59-126-203-62.HINET-IP.hinet.net)
# [17:46] * Parts: Jesdisciple (~Jesdiscip@64-132-236-106.static.twtelecom.net)
# [17:46] * Joins: Jesdisciple (~Jesdiscip@64-132-236-106.static.twtelecom.net)
# [17:46] * Joins: netkrash (~netkrash@pc-52-89-101-190.cm.vtr.net)
# [17:47] * Quits: shwetank (~shwetank@guest.opera.com) (Quit: Leaving...)
# [17:52] * Joins: plh_ (~plh@209-6-123-224.c3-0.arl-ubr1.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com)
# [17:53] * Quits: snearch (~snearch@g225077214.adsl.alicedsl.de) (Quit: Verlassend)
# [17:54] * Joins: patcito (~123@190.42.235.178)
# [17:58] * Quits: jkimbo (9bc6745d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.155.198.116.93) (Quit: Page closed)
# [17:58] * Quits: diraol (~diraol@143.107.108.178) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [18:02] * Quits: BigKing (~BigKing@dslb-094-221-101-137.pools.arcor-ip.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [18:03] * Quits: nonge (~nonge@p50829FFE.dip.t-dialin.net) (Quit: Verlassend)
# [18:04] * Joins: JoshuaJones (~JoshuaJon@67.198.198.66)
# [18:05] * Quits: xec (~xec@2a00:10b0:1:1002:5ab0:35ff:fef8:6a01) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [18:06] * Joins: Reite (~chris@213.109-247-20.customer.lyse.net)
# [18:07] * Quits: jamie_14 (4d2c180a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.77.44.24.10) (Quit: Page closed)
# [18:08] * Quits: eliocapella (~eliocapel@213.37.148.216.static.user.ono.com) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [18:09] * Quits: x12 (~x@94.197.127.11.threembb.co.uk) (Quit: Adios Amigos!)
# [18:09] * Joins: Progster (~blah@pool-173-68-149-113.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
# [18:10] * Quits: andr3 (~andr3@194.65.5.235) (Quit: andr3)
# [18:11] * Quits: caasiHuang (~caasiHuan@59-126-203-62.HINET-IP.hinet.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [18:11] * Joins: andr3 (~andr3@194.65.5.235)
# [18:16] * Joins: benv (~benv@50-0-80-160.dsl.static.sonic.net)
# [18:17] * Quits: B3Jesus (~B3Jesus@cpc6-wolv15-2-0-cust412.wolv.cable.virginmedia.com) (Quit: JIIIZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ)
# [18:17] * Quits: whitman (whitman@itsad-034.its.dur.ac.uk)
# [18:18] * Quits: miketaylr (~miketaylr@guest.opera.com) (Quit: Leaving...)
# [18:19] * Joins: drknus (~user@blk-222-141-162.eastlink.ca)
# [18:20] * Quits: JakeA (~Adium@93-97-17-15.zone5.bethere.co.uk) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [18:20] * Joins: manuchill (~mstalfoor@81.69.16.186)
# [18:20] * Parts: manuchill (~mstalfoor@81.69.16.186)
# [18:22] * Quits: devongovett (~devongove@212-147-52-64.fix.access.vtx.ch) (Quit: devongovett)
# [18:24] * Quits: sarro (~sarro@i5E864D6C.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
# [18:24] * Joins: shawn_dones (~shawn@mail3.webguys.biz)
# [18:25] * Joins: sarro (~sarro@i5E865FAC.versanet.de)
# [18:26] * Quits: rodfersou (bb3e080a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.187.62.8.10) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
# [18:29] * Joins: koggdal (~koggdal@c213-89-119-74.bredband.comhem.se)
# [18:32] * Joins: ben225 (~textual@exchange.banyanventures.com)
# [18:37] * Quits: sarro (~sarro@i5E865FAC.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
# [18:38] * Joins: sarro (~sarro@i5E865FAC.versanet.de)
# [18:39] <Jesdisciple> any advice for when to use Canvas 2D versus WebGL?
# [18:40] <Jesdisciple> I know WebGL browser support stinks... I'm focusing on types of problems
# [18:40] * Joins: ccohn (~ccohn@198.151.217.179)
# [18:45] * Joins: David_Bradbury (~chatzilla@75-147-178-254-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
# [18:46] * Quits: thinkpad_explore (~automate@78.251.9.46) (Quit: Quitte)
# [18:46] * Joins: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@33.178-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be)
# [18:47] * Joins: krater (~benito@189.71.72.188)
# [18:48] * Parts: krater (~benito@189.71.72.188)
# [18:53] * Joins: alrra (~alrra@188.24.66.40)
# [18:53] * Quits: alrra (~alrra@188.24.66.40) (Changing host)
# [18:53] * Joins: alrra (~alrra@unaffiliated/alrra)
# [18:54] <jimmyrcom> I don't get why this doesn't work: http://jsfiddle.net/JgGZs/ , I initialize a picture, add it to a new canvas element, then add it to the canvas element that's in the html.
# [18:54] * Joins: coeus (~coeus@dslb-084-061-056-177.pools.arcor-ip.net)
# [18:56] <David_Bradbury> jimmyrcom: Because you set your width and height in the drawImage method to 0
# [18:56] <jimmyrcom> David_Bradbury: the first two are x and y, and if I put 32, 32 or something it doesn't make diff
# [18:57] <David_Bradbury> http://jsfiddle.net/JgGZs/2/
# [18:57] <David_Bradbury> Shows up fine for me
# [18:57] <jimmyrcom> yeah but your using the image instead of the canvas
# [18:57] <jimmyrcom> 're
# [18:57] <jimmyrcom> drawImage should also take canvas, which I'd assume is more efficient than passing the image every time
# [18:58] * Joins: caasiHuang (~caasiHuan@59-126-203-62.HINET-IP.hinet.net)
# [18:58] * Joins: robhawkes (~robhawkes@207.86.128.119)
# [18:59] * Joins: Jayflux (~jay_knows@cpc1-dudl6-0-0-cust1981.wolv.cable.virginmedia.com)
# [19:00] <JonathanNeal> Hello!
# [19:00] * Joins: axos411 (~axos@xdsl-78-35-152-58.netcologne.de)
# [19:00] * Joins: manuchill (~mstalfoor@81.69.16.186)
# [19:01] * Parts: manuchill (~mstalfoor@81.69.16.186)
# [19:01] <David_Bradbury> ... I'm confused. drawImage draws the the image you're pointing to (in this case, 'a') onto the canvas object
# [19:01] <David_Bradbury> Hello JonathanNeal
# [19:01] <JonathanNeal> :)
# [19:01] * Joins: tertl3 (~tertl3@108-85-17-207.lightspeed.gnvlsc.sbcglobal.net)
# [19:01] <jimmyrcom> drawImage is supposed to take " HTMLImageElement, an HTMLCanvasElement, or an HTMLVideoElement"
# [19:02] * Joins: xec (~xec@54.109-247-17.customer.lyse.net)
# [19:02] <jimmyrcom> if I want a composite of images or something I have to use a canvas object
# [19:03] <David_Bradbury> Okay... And all your example does is load a base64 encoded image as a HTMLImageElement into 'a' and draw it on the canvas object
# [19:04] <jimmyrcom> yes, but, I can't draw a canvas on a canvas, this is just example code
# [19:04] <David_Bradbury> Why can't you?
# [19:04] <jimmyrcom> I dunno, returns type error
# [19:05] * Joins: bendman (~bendman@38.122.2.118)
# [19:05] <jimmyrcom> http://jsfiddle.net/JgGZs/4/
# [19:06] <jimmyrcom> prints that both are of type CanvasRenderingContext2D
# [19:07] * Quits: louisremi (~louisremi@mon69-3-87-90-54-237.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
# [19:09] * Quits: trumpetmic (~trumpetmi@159.182.183.6) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [19:09] * Quits: roadt (~roadt@114.96.142.225) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [19:09] * Quits: dmachi (~dmachi@pool-71-254-71-221.ronkva.east.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
# [19:10] * Joins: kurtzhong_ (~kurtzhong@114.88.98.140)
# [19:12] * Quits: axos411 (~axos@xdsl-78-35-152-58.netcologne.de) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [19:12] * Joins: Armen_ (~armen@dsl-69-171-154-4.acanac.net)
# [19:12] * Quits: kurtzhong_ (~kurtzhong@114.88.98.140) (Client Quit)
# [19:12] * Quits: icrazyhack (horieyui@115.173.249.104) (Quit: http://www.cnblogs.com/crazyhack)
# [19:12] <David_Bradbury> I'm going to redo a tad a bit and show an example. I feel like the code looks like a bit of guessing without understanding how canvas works
# [19:13] <jimmyrcom> I guess it's not possible yet, image is irrelevant http://jsfiddle.net/JgGZs/4/
# [19:13] <jimmyrcom> whoops didn't update
# [19:13] * Joins: trumpetmic (~trumpetmi@159.182.183.6)
# [19:13] * Joins: axos411 (~axos@xdsl-78-35-152-58.netcologne.de)
# [19:13] <jimmyrcom> http://jsfiddle.net/JgGZs/12/
# [19:14] * Joins: dmachi (~dmachi@pool-71-254-64-254.ronkva.east.verizon.net)
# [19:14] * Quits: kurtzhong (~kurtzhong@li317-39.members.linode.com) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
# [19:14] <David_Bradbury> http://jsfiddle.net/wX8r5/
# [19:15] <David_Bradbury> I'm not sure why you're creating a canvas element
# [19:15] <David_Bradbury> You already have one
# [19:15] * Quits: Armen138 (~armen@dsl-69-171-154-4.acanac.net) (Quit: Lost terminal)
# [19:16] * Armen_ is now known as Armen138
# [19:17] <jimmyrcom> thanks David_Bradbury, I guess I have to use the dom element itself instead of the context then
# [19:17] * Quits: drknus (~user@blk-222-141-162.eastlink.ca) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [19:19] <jimmyrcom> some pictures can be made up of other pictures so instead of looping through and drawing the pictures again each frame you use use a canvas element that has them already rendered together each frame
# [19:19] <danielfilho> JonathanNeal: https://github.com/diveintomark/diveintohtml5/commit/38156cbd2f976bb33852797185a9d1505362d287 ?
# [19:19] <socialhapy> ★ Commit on diveintohtml5 by jonathantneal (18h, 47m ago): https://github.com/diveintomark/diveintohtml5/issues/20 Removed foul language from Dive Into HTML5.
# [19:19] <JonathanNeal> Yes, I advertised discussion on this issue yesterday.
# [19:19] <danielfilho> I saw the discussion, but I thought it was going to keep as it is.
# [19:20] * Quits: FunGoat (~fungoat@rrcs-24-73-238-17.se.biz.rr.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [19:21] * Quits: extrawelt (~extrawelt@200.185.252.187) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
# [19:21] * Quits: axos411 (~axos@xdsl-78-35-152-58.netcologne.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [19:21] * Joins: Travis-42 (~Anonymous@c-71-199-176-33.hsd1.ga.comcast.net)
# [19:21] * Joins: machiolate (~thetentma@cpe-98-154-161-205.socal.res.rr.com)
# [19:22] * Joins: axos411 (~axos@xdsl-78-35-152-58.netcologne.de)
# [19:22] * Quits: davidwalsh (~davidwals@24-159-240-193.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [19:22] <Travis-42> when using the html5 pattern attribute, is there any way to specify that the regex should not be case sensitive? Reading the spec makes it look like ignoreCase must always be disabled?
# [19:23] * Joins: davidwalsh (~davidwals@24-159-240-193.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com)
# [19:25] * Quits: tellnes (~tellnes@ec2-79-125-26-36.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com) (K-Lined)
# [19:25] * Quits: davidwalsh (~davidwals@24-159-240-193.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) (Client Quit)
# [19:25] * Joins: sedovsek (~robert.se@93-103-104-107.dynamic.t-2.net)
# [19:29] <David_Bradbury> Well, as far as I'm aware, HTML5 patterns are always compiled with ignore case
# [19:29] <David_Bradbury> Out of curiosity, what do you need the casing for? Maybe we can offer an alternative solution
# [19:35] * Joins: FunGoat (~fungoat@rrcs-24-73-238-17.se.biz.rr.com)
# [19:37] <Travis-42> David_Bradbury, I'm trying to provide a URL validation regex pattern, because the html5 url type input field's validation seems to validate/invalidate some urls that should be considered the opposite. I can manually specify both cases in the regex, it just seems a little inelegant.
# [19:38] * Quits: chriseppstein (~chrisepps@209.119.65.162) (Quit: chriseppstein)
# [19:40] * Quits: markeg (~mark@123.16.76.225) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [19:40] * Joins: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com)
# [19:42] * Joins: dilvie (~chatzilla@c-50-131-97-22.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
# [19:47] * Quits: tung (~tung@58.101.99.148) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [19:48] * Joins: JakeA (~Adium@94-195-85-255.zone9.bethere.co.uk)
# [19:49] * Joins: tellnes (~tellnes@ec2-79-125-26-36.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com)
# [19:49] * Quits: gde33 (kvirc@546A1A51.cm-12-3a.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
# [19:53] * Joins: teleject (~christoph@72-48-98-159.dyn.grandenetworks.net)
# [19:53] * Joins: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113)
# [19:54] * Joins: addyosmani (~addyosman@host86-177-174-43.range86-177.btcentralplus.com)
# [19:58] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@50-0-133-210.dsl.static.sonic.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [20:04] * Quits: addyosmani (~addyosman@host86-177-174-43.range86-177.btcentralplus.com) (Quit: addyosmani)
# [20:04] * Quits: niloy (~niloy@61.12.96.242) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [20:09] * Joins: andrewjbaker (~ajb@host-2-98-178-110.as13285.net)
# [20:10] * Joins: shwetank (~shwetank@120.70.202.84.customer.cdi.no)
# [20:11] <divya> JonathanNeal: are you talking to kenneth somewhere?
# [20:11] * Quits: shwetank (~shwetank@120.70.202.84.customer.cdi.no) (Client Quit)
# [20:11] * Joins: rodfersou (bb3e080a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.187.62.8.10)
# [20:11] <JonathanNeal> I hope so.
# [20:14] <JonathanNeal> I mean, I hope that we talk soon, somewhere.
# [20:14] <JonathanNeal> I've told him he can reach me on any IM service and on IRC.
# [20:15] * Quits: Shahor (~Shahor@78.109.80.22) (Quit: Leaving...)
# [20:15] * Quits: JakeA (~Adium@94-195-85-255.zone9.bethere.co.uk) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [20:16] <JonathanNeal> There will not be a revert war. He can keep the revert while we talk. I still believe I am standing up for the right thing, and it will benefit many in the real world, and harm no one in the real world.
# [20:19] * Joins: chriseppstein (~chrisepps@209.119.65.162)
# [20:19] * Quits: cccaldas (~cccaldas@187.59.111.136) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
# [20:19] <JonathanNeal> I get the impression people would rather be angry and +1 -1 each other than talk about it. That's sad.
# [20:20] <Jesdisciple> JonathanNeal: there are more-polite synonyms for the disputed text
# [20:21] * Quits: gavin_huang (~gravof@125.116.173.180) (Quit: Leaving)
# [20:23] * Quits: chriseppstein (~chrisepps@209.119.65.162) (Client Quit)
# [20:24] <JonathanNeal> If people want Mark's original words, we should have an unedited version somewhere. The goal of .info was to improve the book.
# [20:25] * Quits: debsan (~debsan@190.245.74.16) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [20:25] <divya> sorry JonathanNeal kenneth's change was not done in haste yours was.
# [20:26] <divya> i believe the right way forward is to revert your change and let the discussions continue
# [20:26] <divya> and make the change after.
# [20:26] <divya> this is not the place to kill first and justify the killing later.
# [20:26] <JonathanNeal> That's why there was a short discussion, to avoid this sort of emotional reaction.
# [20:27] <divya> hows that even possible with the kind of censorship you introduced?
# [20:27] * Quits: sean` (~seankoole@D97A9E4C.cm-3-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
# [20:27] <JonathanNeal> The homepage of diveintohtml5.info has said this from the very beginning, the book will change.
# [20:27] <divya> did not say in what way.
# [20:27] <divya> and community is divisive over the issue
# [20:27] <divya> yet you went ahead and changed it arbitrarily
# [20:28] <divya> when things are not so black and white it is better to keep the status quo.
# [20:28] <divya> if you are really someone who claims to listen to all opinions and views.
# [20:30] <JonathanNeal> i hope that doesn't apply to women in tech.
# [20:31] * Joins: Me1000 (~Me1000@128.163.7.133)
# [20:31] <divya> thats a strawman argument.
# [20:31] * Joins: MEMutable1000 (~Me1000@128.163.7.132)
# [20:31] <JonathanNeal> black and white determined by a divisive majority, keeping the status quo. I'm glad I made the change, I'm sad to see the backlash. I'm going to keep helping, even if I disagree with this issue.
# [20:31] <StoneCypher> no it isn't
# [20:32] <StoneCypher> a strawman is when someone pretends you've said something you haven't, then proceeds to attack the fake thing
# [20:32] <StoneCypher> divya: like that time you accused me of being klingon stalin, which is why we don't listen to you anymore
# [20:34] <JonathanNeal> divya is an invaluable person in tech and you should listen to her when she talked about tech, you might even like the other things she has to say too, StoneCypher!
# [20:35] * StoneCypher sighs
# [20:35] <StoneCypher> it wasn't that complicated a joke
# [20:35] <StoneCypher> nobody has ever accused me of being a russian dictator from an alien planet in star trek
# [20:35] <JonathanNeal> :P
# [20:35] <tw2113> like i said on twitter, if you don't like the censorship of diveintohtml5 on github, fork and re-swear
# [20:36] * Quits: Me1000 (~Me1000@128.163.7.133) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
# [20:36] <JonathanNeal> tw2113: well, i agreed to move my fork to kenneth's repo. he can remove me as a contributor if they really feel i'm not fit.
# [20:36] <tw2113> otherwise, i don't know the politics going on with the issue
# [20:36] <StoneCypher> is diveintohtml5 a github related project, or are they censoring other people's stuff?
# [20:37] <tw2113> i was just offering a kneejerk solution
# [20:37] * Joins: whitman (~whitman@87-194-159-116.bethere.co.uk)
# [20:37] <tw2113> i think it's just hosted there
# [20:37] <tw2113> or at least a copy of it
# [20:37] <JonathanNeal> I forked the repo and started actively maintaining it @ diveintohtml5.info
# [20:37] * Quits: obert- (~obert@host11-207-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [20:38] <StoneCypher> wait, so you took someone else's thing, registered its original name as a domain, then went through whitewashing it to your own preferences?
# [20:38] <StoneCypher> that's tacky, dude.
# [20:38] <StoneCypher> really, really tacky.
# [20:38] <StoneCypher> bordering on the ugly.
# [20:39] <JonathanNeal> Sure. I think one person felt that way to when I did it. It was a github project and I forked it and did what I wanted with it.
# [20:39] <StoneCypher> yes. that's ugly.
# [20:39] <StoneCypher> "but licenses permit me to behave badly. if it isn't illegal, i shouldn't be embarrased by my attempt to control someone else's work."
# [20:39] <StoneCypher> i strongly dislike people like you, who attempt to take over other people's things.
# [20:40] <StoneCypher> write your own.
# [20:40] <JonathanNeal> Mark deleted everything he could, and I worked off what he had.
# [20:40] <StoneCypher> and you should be ashamed of that.
# [20:40] * Joins: obert- (~obert@host11-207-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
# [20:41] <JonathanNeal> Okay. I'm not. The negative sarcasm might trick me into thinking you are serious, and if you want to embarrass me go ahead.
# [20:41] <StoneCypher> "i chose to do something to someone else's work that i know perfectly well they don't want. and i host it on a domain under the original title, in order to attempt to keep all the rank and seo acquired by the work i didn't actually do."
# [20:41] <JonathanNeal> I made changes to the content and took in other changes to the content.
# [20:41] <StoneCypher> you embarrassed yourself, dude
# [20:41] <StoneCypher> look at those comments
# [20:41] <StoneCypher> everyone is disgusted with you
# [20:41] <StoneCypher> if you choose to refuse to evaluate what it means about you that you are attempting to steal someone else's work, fine
# [20:41] <StoneCypher> but don't act sanctimonious
# [20:42] <StoneCypher> if you want a tutorial without swearing in it, write one
# [20:42] <StoneCypher> don't steal someone else's work, steer it to your own site, then whitewash it
# [20:42] <StoneCypher> that's messed up.
# [20:42] <danielfilho> Oh boy. Lots of things I didn't knew. This is a bad situation. And I thought it was only the "foul language".
# [20:42] <JonathanNeal> From diveintohtml5.org/ the home page "A new note about this project. While Mark Pilgrim has ceased updating Dive Into HTML5, we wish for it to continue to grow. We're not just patching old links and updating APIs. We are actively maintaining it; refreshing, updating, and reflecting the relevant and current state of HTML5, just as it had been during Mark's tenure. We attribute this work in the man
# [20:42] <JonathanNeal> ner specified by Mark, we've purchased a similar domain, and we make modifications to the site's content. We do not in any way suggest that he endorses us or our use of his work. We hope you do."
# [20:42] * Joins: ||||FAILURE|||| (~BreadMake@pc-209-23-160-190.cm.vtr.net)
# [20:42] <StoneCypher> yes, it's not illegal
# [20:42] <StoneCypher> it's still disgusting and wrong
# [20:43] <StoneCypher> despite that you put little quotes at the bottom
# [20:43] <JonathanNeal> It's not at the bottom, nor is it any smaller than anything else.
# [20:43] <StoneCypher> you should not be replicating someone else's work, after making edits to it that you know they don't want, while taking active steps to control search engine rank for the original title.
# [20:43] <StoneCypher> that's predatory
# [20:43] <StoneCypher> period.
# [20:44] <JonathanNeal> What did I gain from keeping the title consistent? Did anyone pay me anything?
# [20:44] <StoneCypher> not important
# [20:44] <StoneCypher> you should not be replicating someone else's work, after making edits to it that you know they don't want, while taking active steps to control search engine rank for the original title.
# [20:44] <StoneCypher> your motivation does not matter
# [20:44] <StoneCypher> it's people like you who are the reason i don't release text open source
# [20:44] <JonathanNeal> For the same reason I removed the text, I host the site, to help people.
# [20:45] <StoneCypher> no
# [20:45] <StoneCypher> you aren't helping anyone
# [20:45] <StoneCypher> that text already existed
# [20:45] <JonathanNeal> It's a great thing to do here on Earth.
# [20:45] <StoneCypher> no
# [20:45] * Quits: BreadMaker (~BreadMake@pc-209-23-160-190.cm.vtr.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
# [20:45] <StoneCypher> you are not doing a great thing by editing someone else's work then re-hosting it in a way that prevents people from finding the original
# [20:45] * Joins: sephr (~Eli@c-98-235-63-240.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
# [20:45] * Joins: snover (~Adium@unaffiliated/snover)
# [20:45] <StoneCypher> there is no great thing there; there is no help there
# [20:45] <StoneCypher> you are merely being predatory
# [20:45] <JonathanNeal> All right, you're trolling me or something. I'm sorry.
# [20:45] * Quits: sephr (~Eli@c-98-235-63-240.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Changing host)
# [20:45] * Joins: sephr (~Eli@unaffiliated/sephr)
# [20:45] <StoneCypher> no, you aren't sorry, and no, i'm not trolling by pointing out the same horrible thing that everyone else is pointing out about you
# [20:45] <StoneCypher> this is what happens when you do a bad thing
# [20:45] <StoneCypher> people tell you it's bad so that you'll stop
# [20:47] <andrewjbaker> The original Web site doesn't exist any more, does it?
# [20:47] <StoneCypher> "i copied someone else's work, made edits that made them and everyone else angry, tried to steal the term on search engines, and somehow that's me doing a great and helpful thing"
# [20:47] * Joins: melst (~Melli@pop1-3561.catv.wtnet.de)
# [20:47] <tw2113> isn't the only angering parts the swearing?
# [20:48] <StoneCypher> if he made any edits that aren't typos
# [20:48] * Quits: whitman (~whitman@87-194-159-116.bethere.co.uk)
# [20:48] * Joins: whitman (~whitman@87-194-159-116.bethere.co.uk)
# [20:48] <StoneCypher> if he wants to do a great and helpful thing, let him produce; forcing edits on others is not appropriate
# [20:49] * Quits: dilvie (~chatzilla@c-50-131-97-22.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [20:49] <JonathanNeal> StoneCypher: I feel like you are going to make a point that git shouldn't exist.
# [20:49] <JonathanNeal> Otherwise, forking wouldn't matter.
# [20:49] <StoneCypher> uh, no.
# [20:49] <JonathanNeal> I say this for the benefit of everyone.
# [20:49] * Quits: shawn_dones (~shawn@mail3.webguys.biz) (Quit: shawn_dones)
# [20:49] <JonathanNeal> StoneCypher can troll, but let's use it to speak truth.
# [20:50] <danielfilho> Well. I think that if Mark wrote that way and you're getting his work, you shouldn't change what he did and do your way everything from the point you forked on, in this case. Just IMO.
# [20:50] <StoneCypher> nobody benefits from you saying that
# [20:50] <danielfilho> Just it.
# [20:50] <JonathanNeal> As Mark continued to evolve his own work, we continued to evolve his work.
# [20:50] <StoneCypher> you keep claiming what you're doing is for other people, then accusing anyone who disagrees of being a rtoll
# [20:50] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@75-144-246-6-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
# [20:50] <danielfilho> Or there could be even a branch without foul words.
# [20:50] <StoneCypher> but the truth is, all you're doing is making edits to satisfy your preferences, then re-publishing
# [20:50] <JonathanNeal> Walking away from a valuable resource is sad, but it happened, and we picked up the pieces and moved on.
# [20:50] <danielfilho> A version.
# [20:50] <JonathanNeal> We build homes based on designs that people made before we were born.
# [20:51] <StoneCypher> you aren't picking up the pieces
# [20:51] <StoneCypher> you keep telling false stories to make it look like you're doing something you aren't
# [20:51] <JonathanNeal> We work together, even when the origins have passed on.
# [20:51] <StoneCypher> the pieces are already picked up
# [20:51] <StoneCypher> you're making qualitative edits to satisfy your personal preferences
# [20:51] <StoneCypher> that has nothing to do with picking pieces up
# [20:51] <JonathanNeal> Where are they picked up?
# [20:51] * Quits: rt7 (~rt7@cmr-208-124-150-146.cr.net.cable.rogers.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [20:51] * Quits: ccohn (~ccohn@198.151.217.179) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [20:51] <StoneCypher> How is it that you can submit a patch to a central site yet not know where things are hosted, without your help
# [20:52] <StoneCypher> it's almost like you're putting in effort to not understand
# [20:52] <StoneCypher> i'll try this again
# [20:52] <StoneCypher> "rehosting a commons licensed doc is fine"
# [20:52] <StoneCypher> "rehosting a commons licensed doc under its own name is fine"
# [20:52] <JonathanNeal> Well, I have been removed as a contributor.
# [20:52] * Joins: rt7 (~rt7@cmr-208-124-150-146.cr.net.cable.rogers.com)
# [20:52] <StoneCypher> "rehosting an edited version of the doc to suit your own preferences under its own name is messed up"
# [20:52] <StoneCypher> yeah
# [20:52] <StoneCypher> but you're going to keep doing it
# [20:52] <StoneCypher> and you don't understand that what you did is wrong
# [20:52] * Quits: iserantes (~quassel@1.10.27.77.dynamic.mundo-r.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [20:52] <StoneCypher> so you're going to do it again.
# [20:52] * Joins: Valah (~Valah@AOrleans-258-1-117-15.w90-21.abo.wanadoo.fr)
# [20:53] <StoneCypher> and anyone who disagrees with you you'll call a troll, even when they're being relatively polite
# [20:53] <StoneCypher> if you want to rehost someone else's work, do. don't deign to alter it.
# [20:53] <tw2113> from the looks of it. the original site was licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported license
# [20:53] * Quits: ruimarinho (~ruimarinh@a89-152-184-82.cpe.netcabo.pt) (Quit: Leaving...)
# [20:53] <StoneCypher> tw2113: so?
# [20:53] <tw2113> people are free to share: copy, distribute, and transmit the work, to remix: to adapt the work
# [20:53] <StoneCypher> tw2113: nobody said "illegal". the word used was "inappropriate."
# [20:54] <JonathanNeal> Anyone have anything to contribute besides StoneCypher?
# [20:54] * MEMutable1000 is now known as me1000
# [20:54] * Parts: melst (~Melli@pop1-3561.catv.wtnet.de)
# [20:54] <StoneCypher> JonathanNeal: and the reason you're here is the way you treat people who disagree with you.
# [20:55] <tw2113> does anyone else think that JonathanNeal is doing a benefit by maintaining and updating information on an ever evolving spec so that it doesn't become outdated, and remains a valuable resource for someone new coming in and wanting to learn?
# [20:55] * Quits: andr3 (~andr3@194.65.5.235) (Quit: andr3)
# [20:55] <StoneCypher> that's not what he's doing.
# [20:55] * Joins: iserantes (~quassel@1.10.27.77.dynamic.mundo-r.com)
# [20:55] <StoneCypher> what he's doing is changing the character of the document to suit himself.
# [20:55] * Quits: carminec (~user@4-76-252-216.dsl.colba.net) (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
# [20:55] <StoneCypher> nobody's angry when he adds technical data.
# [20:55] * Joins: dilvie (~chatzilla@c-50-131-97-22.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
# [20:55] <paul_irish> yup
# [20:55] <tw2113> so your whole issue is the swearing being removed?
# [20:56] <paul_irish> that is the root of the issue, tw.
# [20:56] <StoneCypher> i already answered that question the last two times you asked it
# [20:56] <StoneCypher> the root of the issue is someone came along and decided to change the character of a document
# [20:56] <tw2113> well answer it again
# [20:56] <StoneCypher> if he wants a document with a different character, let him write his own
# [20:56] <StoneCypher> it's not like the web is running out of room
# [20:56] <StoneCypher> it doesn't matter that it's legal
# [20:56] <StoneCypher> it's messed up.
# [20:56] <tw2113> hmm
# [20:57] <JonathanNeal> I never did anything because it was legal or illegal. I did it based on the grounds that I listed in the issue.
# [20:57] <StoneCypher> he knows perfectly well that the author doesn't want this done, yet he's still trying to steer the name of the document to his own site
# [20:57] <danielfilho> that's the point. for specific public, the project is there. fork and take the foul language out. the the core of the project could stay the same as mark's intended to be.
# [20:57] <tw2113> JonathanNeal has mark said "leave the swearing in" ?
# [20:57] <StoneCypher> JonathanNeal: either you're part of the conversation or you aren't. Are you going to respond to what's said to you, or are you going to "anyone but stonecypher?" can't be both.
# [20:57] <JonathanNeal> No, Mark has not. Mark actually wanted all of it gone from the internet.
# [20:58] <StoneCypher> you should ask him why
# [20:58] <tw2113> fair point there
# [20:58] <JonathanNeal> Or at least his actions dictated such.
# [20:58] <StoneCypher> you really should ask mark why he wanted it gone.
# [20:58] <StoneCypher> you wouldn't believe me if i told you
# [20:58] <JonathanNeal> Mark doesn't want to talk about it.
# [20:58] <StoneCypher> it's way, way too germane to this argument
# [20:58] <StoneCypher> how long has it been since you asked?
# [20:58] <tw2113> paul_irish remember how you saw my name on the Mozilla Hacks blog?
# [20:58] <StoneCypher> look, you shouldn't need to ask
# [20:58] <StoneCypher> it should just be obvious
# [20:59] <paul_irish> tw2113: ya
# [20:59] <StoneCypher> "my name isn't mark, so i shouldn't be deciding what this document feels like"
# [20:59] <StoneCypher> really very simple
# [20:59] <StoneCypher> there's a reason so many people are angry at you
# [20:59] <StoneCypher> refusing to understand what you did won't make it any less offensive
# [20:59] <tw2113> due to my involvement with that, they offered to fly me out to Cali next month for an in person doc sprint
# [20:59] * Joins: andr3 (~andr3@194.65.5.235)
# [20:59] * Quits: obert- (~obert@host11-207-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
# [20:59] <paul_irish> mark quit the internet permanently so we don't have anyway to get his opinion on the matter
# [20:59] * ||||FAILURE|||| is now known as BreadMaker
# [21:00] * Quits: mr_lou (~sirlou@0x555321d8.adsl.cybercity.dk) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
# [21:00] <paul_irish> sucks.
# [21:00] <StoneCypher> think so?
# [21:00] <StoneCypher> well ok then.
# [21:00] <paul_irish> yeah
# [21:00] * Quits: BreadMaker (~BreadMake@pc-209-23-160-190.cm.vtr.net) (Quit: FUAAAAAAAA!!!)
# [21:00] <tw2113> so I'll be in cali hanging out at Mozilla for a long weekend :D
# [21:00] <JonathanNeal> StoneCypher: I wasn't lying to you.
# [21:00] <StoneCypher> let's stick to the obvious, then. "we don't tell shakespeare to get rid of these sections either."
# [21:00] <JonathanNeal> He really did get up and go.
# [21:00] * Joins: BreadMaker (~BreadMake@pc-209-23-160-190.cm.vtr.net)
# [21:00] <danielfilho> in this case, why won't we keep everything as it was two days ago?
# [21:00] <StoneCypher> you aren't the author. stop pretending you are.
# [21:01] <danielfilho> will it hurt anyone? or compromise the quality of the document?
# [21:01] * Quits: andr3 (~andr3@194.65.5.235) (Client Quit)
# [21:01] * Quits: sarro (~sarro@i5E865FAC.versanet.de) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
# [21:01] <StoneCypher> danheberden: is that the author's state?
# [21:01] <StoneCypher> er
# [21:01] <StoneCypher> danielfilho
# [21:01] <danielfilho> the author state was to vanish everything from the web.
# [21:01] <danielfilho> and everyone should respect that
# [21:01] <danielfilho> but, as long as it's a good reference
# [21:01] <StoneCypher> uh. what?
# [21:02] <StoneCypher> no
# [21:02] <danielfilho> with good intentions I think someone keep updating it, for the community.
# [21:02] <StoneCypher> what i meant was "does the state from two days ago reflect the time before JonathanNeal's decision to impose his own preferences on someone else's text"
# [21:02] <StoneCypher> sometimes i think people put way too much effort into answering things they know perfectly well meant something else
# [21:02] <danielfilho> oh, I see.
# [21:03] <danielfilho> I just think that there's too much angry on something that is meant to help the community.
# [21:05] * Joins: louisremi (~louisremi@mon69-3-87-90-54-237.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr)
# [21:05] <danielfilho> I don't like to see things tearing apart. I didn't liked what Jon did, I told him on private. But his intentions (true or not) were good, as far as he told me.
# [21:06] * Quits: Demp (Demp@unaffiliated/demp) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [21:06] <danielfilho> And I tend to believe on people's words. And I believe that, if he did it wrong, he's in time to fix it.
# [21:06] * Quits: robhawkes (~robhawkes@207.86.128.119) (Quit: Leaving...)
# [21:06] * Joins: Demp (Demp@bzq-79-182-196-21.red.bezeqint.net)
# [21:06] * Quits: Demp (Demp@bzq-79-182-196-21.red.bezeqint.net) (Changing host)
# [21:06] * Joins: Demp (Demp@unaffiliated/demp)
# [21:06] * Quits: Demp (Demp@unaffiliated/demp) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [21:06] <bendman> so what's the best table structure for putting rounded corners around something?
# [21:06] * Joins: Demp (Demp@bzq-79-182-196-21.red.bezeqint.net)
# [21:06] * Quits: Demp (Demp@bzq-79-182-196-21.red.bezeqint.net) (Changing host)
# [21:06] * Joins: Demp (Demp@unaffiliated/demp)
# [21:10] <David_Bradbury> I don't think anyone is accusing Jon of having malicious intent
# [21:11] * Joins: ccohn (~ccohn@198.151.217.181)
# [21:11] <StoneCypher> i think it's bordering on that
# [21:12] <StoneCypher> to be honest
# [21:12] <StoneCypher> "i've decided to impose my preferences on your voice. i want to save your work! i just don't want it to be what you actually wrote."
# [21:12] <StoneCypher> it's kind of like ted turner getting rid of speedy gonzales
# [21:12] <David_Bradbury> Okay, so let's say it is malicious, what does he get out of it?
# [21:12] <StoneCypher> who cares
# [21:12] <StoneCypher> motivation doesn't affect this in any way. the end has no justifying effect on the action.
# [21:12] <StoneCypher> it's simpler than that
# [21:13] <JonathanNeal> I concede that almost no one is sticking up for me. It is sad.
# [21:13] <David_Bradbury> I'm not looking for justification - But I'm not sure how you accuse someone of being malicious without knowing their intentions
# [21:13] <StoneCypher> that's the only reason i said bordering.
# [21:13] <StoneCypher> find me one legitimate reason. i'll wait.
# [21:14] <StoneCypher> it's like asking for a good reason to kill. there're a few - self defense, defending others - but it's actually completely reasonable to default to assuming it was a bad thing.
# [21:14] <StoneCypher> editing other people's stuff defaults to being a bad thing.
# [21:14] <StoneCypher> was he trying to introduce the work to a country where swearing is illegal? okay, that's fine then.
# [21:14] <David_Bradbury> Hmm, I disagree.
# [21:14] <StoneCypher> but he wasn't.
# [21:14] <StoneCypher> what this really was was some guy saying "i know better than the author how this document should read. i shall impose myself upon it."
# [21:15] <StoneCypher> and that's inappropriate.
# [21:15] <StoneCypher> deeply so.
# [21:15] <StoneCypher> David_Bradbury: disagree with which part, if i might ask
# [21:15] <David_Bradbury> I don't think it should be changed - That said, I think most of the people reacting to this are being highly dramatic
# [21:15] * Joins: yogurt_truck (~yogurt_tr@190.191.221.231)
# [21:15] <StoneCypher> i'm not being highly dramatic
# [21:15] <StoneCypher> i just think he's doing something inappropriate
# [21:16] <StoneCypher> and that he should face that there's a reason people are not happy with him, and perhaps consider whether he just shouldn't do this
# [21:16] <StoneCypher> it's not like i've made any personal attacks or insults, questionned whether he should take dramatic action, accused him of horrors against man, decried the inverterate status of intellectual property
# [21:16] <StoneCypher> i just think he's being a duck
# [21:16] <StoneCypher> dick*
# [21:17] <David_Bradbury> Aw, I was hoping duck was correct
# [21:17] <Pomax> so you just made a personal insult.
# [21:17] * JonathanNeal quacks
# [21:17] <David_Bradbury> :D
# [21:17] <Pomax> duck was pretty good
# [21:17] <StoneCypher> that's not high drama; it's not even low drama. it's being frank and earnest with someone in the hopes that they'll stop sticking their fingers in their ears and going "but i wanna!
# [21:17] <JonathanNeal> I am listening to you.
# [21:17] <JonathanNeal> Notice how I stopped talking? I'm still here, ears are open. Please, continue.
# [21:17] <StoneCypher> JonathanNeal: no you aren't. you've declined to answer any of my questions, and i suspect you don't know what they were.
# [21:18] <David_Bradbury> brb
# [21:18] <StoneCypher> JonathanNeal: you want me to put it bluntly?
# [21:18] * Quits: rodfersou (bb3e080a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.187.62.8.10) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
# [21:18] <StoneCypher> JonathanNeal: things like this are why i refuse to release text under open licenses
# [21:18] <JonathanNeal> Given the length of your replies, would you understand why there's a lot to sort out of what you're saying?
# [21:18] <StoneCypher> JonathanNeal: legions of third parties who think they know better
# [21:18] <StoneCypher> JonathanNeal: you, specifically, and people like you, are why i retain text copyright while giving my code away
# [21:19] <StoneCypher> JonathanNeal: that is actually meant as an insult.
# [21:19] <StoneCypher> JonathanNeal: but it's also factual.
# [21:19] <StoneCypher> JonathanNeal: you may have the legal privilege, but you don't have the right.
# [21:19] <JonathanNeal> You know I hear you, right?
# [21:19] <StoneCypher> i know you're seeing the words
# [21:19] <JonathanNeal> Good.
# [21:19] <StoneCypher> i don't think you're letting them land
# [21:19] <JonathanNeal> I can't convince you of anything related to my heart, and I won't try.
# [21:20] <JonathanNeal> I'm glad you know I see them.
# [21:20] * Quits: devmikey (~irc@unaffiliated/devmikey) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [21:20] * Joins: manuchill (~mstalfoor@81.69.16.186)
# [21:20] <StoneCypher> you very much seem not to be able to focus on the idea that just because you don't get what you did as offensive doesn't mean that it isn't offensive.
# [21:20] <StoneCypher> you keep protesting that it's your heart that isn't being understood.
# [21:20] <StoneCypher> you aren't the victim here, dude.
# [21:20] <StoneCypher> the original author is
# [21:20] <StoneCypher> stop protesting your feelings
# [21:20] <StoneCypher> you're the predator here.
# [21:20] <StoneCypher> there is a reason so many people are angry with you.
# [21:21] <StoneCypher> try to face that that doesn't happen by coincidence or accident
# [21:21] <StoneCypher> and that that means there's something real here, even if you don't agree with it
# [21:21] <StoneCypher> then
# [21:21] <StoneCypher> consider how many times you've seen one person not agree with the group
# [21:21] <StoneCypher> becuase they "don't understand"
# [21:21] <StoneCypher> and because the group "doesn't see what they meant"
# [21:21] <JonathanNeal> StoneCypher: I don't know of anyone more angry with me than you right now.
# [21:21] <StoneCypher> i'm not angry
# [21:22] <StoneCypher> i'm trying to explain something to you.
# [21:22] <StoneCypher> why do you keep inventing fake emotions?
# [21:22] <StoneCypher> i'm not angry at all.
# [21:22] <Pomax> what conditions need to be met for you to think he understood you
# [21:22] <StoneCypher> at this point?
# [21:22] <Pomax> because it's getting really annoying looking into this channel
# [21:22] <StoneCypher> i think after what he just said
# [21:22] <StoneCypher> that's become the null set
# [21:22] <Pomax> and seeing bickering instead of people asking html5 questions
# [21:22] <csmrfx> over here it doesn't matter what licence you use, as an author you still retain authors rights
# [21:22] * rileyw agrees with Pomax
# [21:22] <Pomax> if you have a null set, then start being silent
# [21:22] <StoneCypher> gee thanks
# [21:22] <Pomax> because you just said that nothing he says can convince you he now understands
# [21:22] <Pomax> therefore nothing you say will contribute.
# [21:23] <StoneCypher> uh huh.
# [21:23] <Pomax> because you just said so.
# [21:23] <StoneCypher> which was something clearly i already understood, by my phrasing.
# [21:23] <JonathanNeal> StoneCypher: the length of your text and the way I read the English language show me that you are upset. I think there are a lot of emotional people upset with me. I just want you to know I see what you're saying. Later I hope it helps.
# [21:23] * Joins: obert- (~obert@host11-207-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
# [21:23] <StoneCypher> JonathanNeal: not interested in being instructed incorrectly about my own emotional state.
# [21:23] <JonathanNeal> Right now I don't expect you or anyone who believes I have done evil to change their mind about me.
# [21:24] <StoneCypher> JonathanNeal: if you have to tell yourself that you know better than a stranger their own emotional state, then it's pretty clear how honest you are.
# [21:24] <StoneCypher> JonathanNeal: we'
# [21:24] <StoneCypher> JonathanNeal: we're done.
# [21:24] <andrewjbaker> For me, the most valuable part of Mark's work is the technical stuff. And because that still exists, and is being actively maintained, I'm now off to get shit done... ciao.
# [21:24] * Parts: andrewjbaker (~ajb@host-2-98-178-110.as13285.net) ("Leaving")
# [21:25] <Pomax> hm, anyone know of a creative way that lets one figure out what Safari on iPad is doing, without waiting for it to crash so that it can be hooked up to Xcode?
# [21:25] * Quits: rileyw (~rileyw@150.252.132.17) (Quit: rileyw)
# [21:26] <Pomax> even something quarter-way to a js console would be an improvement over the debug tool it has built in =(
# [21:26] <David_Bradbury> Hmm
# [21:26] <David_Bradbury> For some reason, my "comment on this issue" button is faded out
# [21:27] <David_Bradbury> Any ideas?
# [21:28] <Pomax> "disabled" attribute?
# [21:28] <David_Bradbury> It is set to "disabled" :P But I am not sure why
# [21:28] <David_Bradbury> Maybe I'll just edit it :p
# [21:28] <Pomax> heh
# [21:28] <David_Bradbury> Nope
# [21:29] <David_Bradbury> Removed disable and it still won't let me submit
# [21:29] <David_Bradbury> There we go
# [21:29] <David_Bradbury> Just did
# [21:29] * Quits: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113) (Quit: Never look down on someone unless you're helping them up.)
# [21:29] * Joins: franksalim (~frank@64-71-23-251.static.wiline.com)
# [21:29] <bendman> does anybody know of a semiphore-like function/event queue handler in javascript where it will put actions into a queue and process them based on priority, or assign them to a web worker if applicable?
# [21:33] <StoneCypher> in what way is that like a semaphor
# [21:33] <StoneCypher> e
# [21:34] * David_Bradbury doesn't know what a semaphore is but it sounds neat
# [21:34] <StoneCypher> semaphores aren't that
# [21:34] <StoneCypher> semaphores are basically counting mutex singletons
# [21:35] <StoneCypher> the maitre d at the restaurant is a semaphore
# [21:35] <StoneCypher> he schedules table avaialability and locking
# [21:35] <David_Bradbury> Gotcha
# [21:35] * Quits: erichynds (~ehynds@64.206.121.41) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
# [21:35] <StoneCypher> this prevents a bunch of classes of deadlock and race, but obviously not all of them
# [21:36] <David_Bradbury> I was maitre d for a restaurant awhile ago.
# [21:36] <David_Bradbury> Maitre d'*
# [21:36] <bendman> well, I was thinking of an object that would handle that queue and push the action into the javascript thread when it was open
# [21:36] <StoneCypher> well it's an inappropriate shortening either way
# [21:36] <StoneCypher> correctly it's Maître d'hôtel
# [21:37] <StoneCypher> bendman: if you aren't worried about order of complexity, just make an array of arrays, and use push/pop and front scans
# [21:37] <StoneCypher> it's like ten lines of code
# [21:37] <StoneCypher> (if you are, be ready to implement a pq)
# [21:37] <David_Bradbury> Indeed, but I don't have the fancy frenchy-french keys unless I switch to the international keyboard (or I memorize the character codes)
# [21:38] <StoneCypher> i have the fancy french cut and paste google
# [21:38] * Quits: mascix (~opakdil@88.247.87.27) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [21:38] <David_Bradbury> Ooh la la
# [21:39] <StoneCypher> it's fried in duck butter
# [21:39] <StoneCypher> i had the d and f backwards the first time i typed that
# [21:39] <StoneCypher> which is uh
# [21:39] <StoneCypher> kind of gross.
# [21:40] <David_Bradbury> Hah, welllllll
# [21:41] * Joins: miketaylr (~miketaylr@80.232.109.46)
# [21:42] * Quits: louisremi (~louisremi@mon69-3-87-90-54-237.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [21:42] * Joins: louisremi (~louisremi@mon69-3-87-90-54-237.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr)
# [21:43] * Quits: trumpetmic (~trumpetmi@159.182.183.6) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [21:44] * Joins: trumpetmic (~trumpetmi@159.182.183.6)
# [21:46] * Quits: jsullivan (~jsullivan@bbb72-0-162-40.bendbroadband.com) (Quit: Bye!)
# [21:47] * Quits: me1000 (~Me1000@128.163.7.132) (Quit: Leaving...)
# [21:48] * Quits: digitalfiz (~fiz@unaffiliated/digitalfiz) (Quit: [Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/])
# [21:51] * Joins: mokush (~mokush@188.24.43.82)
# [21:53] * Joins: BrackCurly (5841effc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.65.239.252)
# [21:53] <WebDragon> David_Bradbury: you could always use the compose-key sequences if you're on linux
# [21:53] <David_Bradbury> I've actually thought of porting some of that functionality to windows, but I'm sure someone else has already done it
# [21:54] <WebDragon> linux for me is like playing Fallout 3 after you acquire Fawkes as a companion
# [21:55] <Armen138> linux for me is I don't know what Fawkes is and I've never played Fallout 3.
# [21:55] * Quits: dilvie (~chatzilla@c-50-131-97-22.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
# [21:56] <mokush> Stalker is much better
# [21:56] <mokush> than F3,not linux
# [21:57] <csmrfx> linux is just a kernel
# [21:58] <mokush> oh no, not `that` talk again
# [21:58] <David_Bradbury> I really want to be on linux full time, but I have too much I have to do on PC =/
# [21:58] <David_Bradbury> Err
# [21:58] <David_Bradbury> Windows
# [21:58] <David_Bradbury> Wow, I yell at people for saying that
# [21:58] <WebDragon> this is what virtualbox-ose is for
# [21:58] <David_Bradbury> and I just did it :p
# [21:58] <David_Bradbury> Doesn't run fast enough
# [21:58] <mokush> David_Bradbury: what doesn't run fast enough?
# [21:58] <WebDragon> upgrade yer hardware ;D
# [21:58] <David_Bradbury> I dual boot, but I Just end up choosing Windows 90% of the time
# [21:59] <David_Bradbury> Phototoshop, 3DS Max, and various games
# [21:59] <WebDragon> only reason I use windows is to watch netflix (thanks for that silverlight thing, netflix) and to play a smattering of games
# [21:59] * Parts: snover (~Adium@unaffiliated/snover)
# [21:59] <WebDragon> 95% of the time I'm on linux
# [21:59] <Armen138> I use an appletv for netflix. no windows required ;)
# [21:59] <WebDragon> mostly I got the xbox for the games
# [21:59] <WebDragon> Armen138: nice idea
# [22:00] <WebDragon> plus I can watch netflix on the 360 so I've been doing that more often than booting to windows
# [22:00] <David_Bradbury> I have a i7 Processor, 12GB DDR3 Ram, 3TB Storage, and a Nvidia GTX 580 - I'm okay right now :p
# [22:00] <Armen138> its porbably the only apple product worth its price
# [22:00] <Armen138> ;)
# [22:00] <WebDragon> wi ievms script + virtualbox-ose meant I don't have to boot to windows to test IE anymore in something that does more than merely resemble a correct testing environment
# [22:01] <WebDragon> s/^wi//
# [22:02] <WebDragon> https://github.com/xdissent/ievms
# [22:03] * Quits: Jackneill (~Jackneill@unaffiliated/jackneill) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
# [22:03] * Joins: digitalfiz (~fiz@unaffiliated/digitalfiz)
# [22:04] * Joins: jsullivandigs (~jsullivan@bbb72-0-162-40.bendbroadband.com)
# [22:05] * Joins: kevwil (~kevwil@c-67-161-153-2.hsd1.co.comcast.net)
# [22:07] * Joins: zeppo (~zeppo@79.138.155.189.bredband.tre.se)
# [22:07] * Joins: mosheee (~moshee@c-50-135-229-127.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
# [22:07] * Quits: mosheee (~moshee@c-50-135-229-127.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Changing host)
# [22:07] * Joins: mosheee (~moshee@unaffiliated/moshee)
# [22:08] * Quits: bendman (~bendman@38.122.2.118)
# [22:08] * Quits: moshee (~moshee@unaffiliated/moshee) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
# [22:09] * Quits: JoeK (~Joseph@node0-kratos.hostftw.com) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
# [22:11] * Quits: ben225 (~textual@exchange.banyanventures.com) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
# [22:13] * Quits: mokush (~mokush@188.24.43.82) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [22:14] * Quits: caasiHuang (~caasiHuan@59-126-203-62.HINET-IP.hinet.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [22:14] * Joins: mokush (~mokush@188.24.43.82)
# [22:17] * Quits: sasori (~sasori@acl1-719bts.gw.smartbro.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
# [22:17] * Joins: davidmogar (5d9c93f3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.156.147.243)
# [22:19] * Joins: Me1000 (~Me1000@74-143-221-12.static.insightbb.com)
# [22:19] <davidmogar> hello. I'm doing an Atari ST emulator with HTML5 + CSS3. I need to display windows in a simulated desktop but as there are too many diferent windows to show I need to organice my code and not to throw all the code in the index.html. How could I do this? All windows are div elements
# [22:23] * Quits: mosheee (~moshee@unaffiliated/moshee) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
# [22:23] <David_Bradbury> Use a server-side language such as PHP?
# [22:23] * Joins: moshee (~moshee@unaffiliated/moshee)
# [22:23] <davidmogar> David_Bradbury: could you be a little more specific?
# [22:23] <StoneCypher> ...
# [22:23] <StoneCypher> you're trying to write a machine emulator, but you need to know ... how to include files.
# [22:23] * StoneCypher shakes magic success ball
# [22:23] <StoneCypher> results cloudy, try again later.
# [22:23] * StoneCypher harrumphs and goes back to work
# [22:23] <davidmogar> ¬¬
# [22:23] <David_Bradbury> Break you code up into parts and include it using PHP?
# [22:23] * Quits: ericbarnes (~ericbarne@cpe-075-181-047-014.carolina.res.rr.com) (Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/)
# [22:24] <davidmogar> this is what I got right now http://156.35.94.3/atarist/
# [22:24] * Joins: Proggy (~blah@pool-173-68-149-113.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
# [22:25] * Quits: Progster (~blah@pool-173-68-149-113.nycmny.fios.verizon.net) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
# [22:25] * Quits: Zauberfisch (Subject619@venus.zauberfisch.at) (Quit: Leaving)
# [22:25] <David_Bradbury> Well, it is a simulator, not an emulator I think
# [22:25] * Joins: Zauberfisch (Zauberfisc@venus.zauberfisch.at)
# [22:25] <davidmogar> David_Bradbury: yes, sorry, simulator. My fault
# [22:25] <David_Bradbury> No worries
# [22:26] * Quits: FunGoat (~fungoat@rrcs-24-73-238-17.se.biz.rr.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [22:26] * Joins: edwardbc (~edward.ba@186.32.180.144)
# [22:26] <davidmogar> David_Bradbury: include files with PHP could be a solution but from the client side all the code would be in the index.html. I would like to have a clean code. Anyway, is a good solution...
# [22:27] * Joins: krater (~benito@189.71.72.188)
# [22:27] * Quits: BrackCurly (5841effc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.65.239.252) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
# [22:27] * Parts: krater (~benito@189.71.72.188)
# [22:27] <David_Bradbury> Well, assuming you do everything correctly, it should still output clean code.
# [22:28] * Quits: louisremi (~louisremi@mon69-3-87-90-54-237.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [22:28] <davidmogar> David_Bradbury: but I need to indent code in each file according to their position in the index.html, isn't it?
# [22:30] <David_Bradbury> If you wanted to maintain that yes - You'd have to do that anyways though
# [22:30] <davidmogar> David_Bradbury: ok, thank you ;)
# [22:30] <David_Bradbury> Or you could have PHP format your code for you before outputting it, but that can be server intensive
# [22:31] * Quits: pandeiro (~mu@189.62.31.89) (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7)
# [22:31] <StoneCypher> uh, what?
# [22:31] <StoneCypher> that's ... not server intensive at all
# [22:31] * Quits: whitman (~whitman@87-194-159-116.bethere.co.uk) (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
# [22:31] <David_Bradbury> I wouldn't recommend it for a production server
# [22:31] <StoneCypher> because it's silly, though, not because it's a meaningful amount of work
# [22:32] <David_Bradbury> Relatively speaking, it doesn't take much at all. But it seems quite inefficent
# [22:33] * Joins: davidmogar_ (5d9c93f3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.156.147.243)
# [22:34] * Joins: addyosmani (~addyosman@host86-177-174-43.range86-177.btcentralplus.com)
# [22:35] * Quits: davidmogar (5d9c93f3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.156.147.243) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
# [22:35] <StoneCypher> addyosmani: i really like the graphic design of your blow
# [22:35] <StoneCypher> blog*
# [22:35] * Joins: jetienne (~jerome@ivr94-6-82-230-255-246.fbx.proxad.net)
# [22:35] <StoneCypher> christ i can't type today
# [22:35] * Quits: johnkpaul (~johnkpaul@ool-6c3abe9a.static.optonline.net)
# [22:35] <addyosmani> it's alright.
# [22:35] <bot-t> (7 hours 11 mins ago) <divya> tell addyosmani I am not a bloody ragtag group
# [22:35] <bot-t> (5 hours 6 mins 20 secs ago) <necolas> tell addyosmani Why would you want to backup your github repos using timestamps? https://gist.github.com/2159263
# [22:35] <addyosmani> and thanks StoneCypher!
# [22:35] * Joins: mascix (~opakdil@83.66.110.192)
# [22:36] * Joins: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113)
# [22:37] <addyosmani> divya: of course not. You are a powerhouse of awesome. I just meant the 'usual suspects' :)
# [22:37] * Joins: JNZ (JNZ@unaffiliated/jnz)
# [22:38] * davidmogar_ is now known as davidmogar
# [22:38] * Quits: davidmogar (5d9c93f3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.156.147.243)
# [22:38] <addyosmani> necolas: timestamps were really optional. Was mostly for those that were concerned about having redundancy/quick way to make sure you don't just have one central copy of your repos.
# [22:39] * Quits: kevwil (~kevwil@c-67-161-153-2.hsd1.co.comcast.net) (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7)
# [22:39] * Joins: dilvie (~chatzilla@204-16-153-102-static.ipnetworksinc.net)
# [22:40] * Joins: chriseppstein (~chrisepps@209.119.65.162)
# [22:40] * Joins: andr3 (~andr3@bl14-222-186.dsl.telepac.pt)
# [22:43] * Quits: gyzmodo (x@89.146.106.82)
# [22:43] * Quits: dilvie (~chatzilla@204-16-153-102-static.ipnetworksinc.net) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [22:43] * Quits: Me1000 (~Me1000@74-143-221-12.static.insightbb.com) (Quit: Leaving...)
# [22:46] * Quits: andr3 (~andr3@bl14-222-186.dsl.telepac.pt) (Quit: andr3)
# [22:46] * Quits: SoulRaven (SoulRaven@89.41.157.171)
# [22:47] * Parts: brrutzo (~john@160.79.20.210)
# [22:47] * Joins: andr3 (~andr3@bl14-222-186.dsl.telepac.pt)
# [22:48] * Joins: dilvie (~chatzilla@204-16-153-102-static.ipnetworksinc.net)
# [22:50] * Joins: diraol (~diraol@189.100.4.40)
# [22:50] * Joins: jacobolu_ (~jacobolus@75-144-246-6-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
# [22:51] * Joins: sean` (~seankoole@D97A9E4C.cm-3-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
# [22:52] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@75-144-246-6-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
# [22:52] <paul_irish> http://duncandavidson.com/blog/2012/03/webkit_retina_bug
# [22:53] * Quits: Taftse (Taftse@unaffiliated/taftse) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [22:53] * Quits: addyosmani (~addyosman@host86-177-174-43.range86-177.btcentralplus.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [22:53] * Joins: addyosmani (~addyosman@host86-177-174-43.range86-177.btcentralplus.com)
# [22:53] * Quits: dilvie (~chatzilla@204-16-153-102-static.ipnetworksinc.net) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
# [22:53] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@75-144-246-6-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
# [22:55] * Joins: louisremi (~louisremi@mon69-3-87-90-54-237.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr)
# [22:55] * Quits: jacobolu_ (~jacobolus@75-144-246-6-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
# [22:56] * Joins: ruimarinho (~ruimarinh@a89-152-49-119.cpe.netcabo.pt)
# [23:00] * Joins: jacobolu_ (~jacobolus@75-144-246-6-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
# [23:00] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@75-144-246-6-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
# [23:04] * Quits: digitalfiz (~fiz@unaffiliated/digitalfiz) (Quit: [Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/])
# [23:07] * Joins: eichi (~quassel@stgt-5f71a5e4.pool.mediaWays.net)
# [23:07] * Quits: jetienne (~jerome@ivr94-6-82-230-255-246.fbx.proxad.net) (Quit: jetienne)
# [23:09] <David_Bradbury> paul_irish: We have a mobile app that we would like to use large images for, and we've experienced the same issues.
# [23:09] <eichi> Hello! I have a value in a input field. And if I do document.getElementById(..).value = document.getElementById(..).value +1 it does a concationation of the value not an increase if the number. Becaus the javascript things, its a text. How can I change this?
# [23:10] <eichi> I tried a type="number" in the <input
# [23:10] <eichi> but does not help
# [23:11] <David_Bradbury> ##javascript - Also, x = parseInt(document.getElementByID(...)); X+=1; document...value = x;
# [23:11] * Quits: franksalim (~frank@64-71-23-251.static.wiline.com) (Quit: Leaving)
# [23:14] <StoneCypher> eichi: .toString(), parseInt('5', 10)
# [23:15] <StoneCypher> eichi: strings and numbers aren't the same, and you must transition between them purposefully
# [23:15] * Joins: jacobolus (~jacobolus@75-144-246-6-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
# [23:15] * Joins: Skyrocket (~chatzilla@79.97.43.136)
# [23:15] * Quits: jacobolu_ (~jacobolus@75-144-246-6-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [23:15] * theresaanna is now known as theresa_away
# [23:16] * Quits: Ms2ger (~Ms2ger@33.178-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [23:17] * Joins: caasiHuang (~caasiHuan@59-126-203-62.HINET-IP.hinet.net)
# [23:17] * Joins: welly (~welly@unaffiliated/welly)
# [23:20] * Parts: Skyrocket (~chatzilla@79.97.43.136)
# [23:20] * Quits: Zauberfisch (Zauberfisc@venus.zauberfisch.at) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# [23:21] * Joins: Zauberfisch (Zauberfisc@venus.zauberfisch.at)
# [23:21] * Quits: ajvb (~avb@ec2-50-16-91-243.compute-1.amazonaws.com) (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
# [23:23] * Quits: koggdal (~koggdal@c213-89-119-74.bredband.comhem.se) (Quit: koggdal)
# [23:23] * Quits: patcito (~123@190.42.235.178) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
# [23:24] * Quits: ryanseddon (u1832@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cjvfcueygzhsywwj) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
# [23:24] * Quits: Raynos (u3611@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fnzvoomgddxgvdnd) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
# [23:24] * Joins: Thireg (~Thireg@APlessis-Bouchard-152-1-53-221.w82-121.abo.wanadoo.fr)
# [23:24] * Quits: venom00ut (~venom00@unaffiliated/venom00) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
# [23:24] * Quits: Brunoz (u5854@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-evhobkwsqnhytvyq) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
# [23:24] * Quits: JonathanNeal (u5831@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jytlapkrlljzmldo) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
# [23:24] * Quits: remysharp (u4345@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ypkwdsiflyuhjznq) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
# [23:24] * Quits: mnemoc (~amery@shell.opensde.net) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
# [23:25] * Quits: krijn (u2319@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qlicddgynqucpjbk) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
# [23:25] * Joins: mnemoc (~amery@shell.opensde.net)
# [23:27] * Quits: sedovsek (~robert.se@93-103-104-107.dynamic.t-2.net)
# [23:28] * Joins: patcito (~123@190.42.235.178)
# [23:28] * Quits: manuchill (~mstalfoor@81.69.16.186) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
# [23:30] * Quits: marcocarag (~marcocara@38.117.157.59) (Quit: marcocarag)
# [23:31] * Quits: plh_ (~plh@209-6-123-224.c3-0.arl-ubr1.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com) (Quit: always accept cookies)
# [23:31] * Quits: David_Bradbury (~chatzilla@75-147-178-254-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 11.0/20120312181643])
# [23:32] * Quits: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [23:32] * Joins: davidwalsh (~davidwals@75-135-74-55.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com)
# [23:32] * Joins: codewrangler (~codewrang@pool-71-178-207-81.washdc.fios.verizon.net)
# [23:33] * Quits: Reite (~chris@213.109-247-20.customer.lyse.net) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
# [23:34] * Quits: mokush (~mokush@188.24.43.82) (Remote host closed the connection)
# [23:34] * Quits: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113) (Quit: Nice Scotty, now beam my clothes up too!)
# [23:34] * Joins: krater (~benito@189.71.28.58)
# [23:34] * Parts: krater (~benito@189.71.28.58)
# [23:35] * Joins: JoeK (~Joseph@node0-kratos.hostftw.com)
# [23:36] * Quits: ruimarinho (~ruimarinh@a89-152-49-119.cpe.netcabo.pt) (Quit: Leaving...)
# [23:37] * Joins: Brunoz (u5854@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mqoupyzovsoesfdu)
# [23:39] * Joins: jetienne (~jerome@ivr94-6-82-230-255-246.fbx.proxad.net)
# [23:42] * Joins: Me1000 (~Me1000@74-143-218-11.static.insightbb.com)
# [23:43] * Quits: jsullivandigs (~jsullivan@bbb72-0-162-40.bendbroadband.com) (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
# [23:45] * Joins: sasori (~sasori@acl1-719bts.gw.smartbro.net)
# [23:47] * Joins: JonathanNeal (u5831@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hzipflbfzbjqxats)
# [23:48] * Quits: mascix (~opakdil@83.66.110.192) (Quit: Leaving.)
# [23:48] * Quits: jetienne (~jerome@ivr94-6-82-230-255-246.fbx.proxad.net) (Quit: jetienne)
# [23:49] * Quits: Thireg (~Thireg@APlessis-Bouchard-152-1-53-221.w82-121.abo.wanadoo.fr) (Quit: Thireg)
# [23:49] <Jayflux> hi guys
# [23:50] <Jayflux> is there a reason transition isnt working on my menu: http://luci.ris.so/
# [23:51] * Joins: ColKurtz (~ColKurtz@216.86.217.155)
# [23:51] * Joins: remysharp (u4345@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rnenlzttsnoshjch)
# [23:52] * Joins: Raynos (u3611@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cufelsiryeqfevky)
# [23:53] * Joins: schnoomac (~schnoomac@melbourne.99cluster.com)
# [23:54] * Joins: ryanseddon (u1832@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-delryacugvqqhwkm)
# [23:54] * Quits: blackjid (~jidonoso@pc-120-163-47-190.cm.vtr.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
# Session Close: Fri Mar 23 00:00:02 2012

The end :)