/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2012-04-02 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Apr 02 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
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  177. # [06:06] <JanSch> hi, I am doing an XMLHttpRequest and I am trying to receive ISO-8859-1 encoded data.
  178. # [06:06] <JanSch> however, HTML5 seems to specify that when a server says something is ISO-8859-1, the server actually means "Windows-1252"
  179. # [06:07] <JanSch> is there a way to receive ISO-8859-1 encoded text without manually converting it?
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  243. # [08:47] <krillep> Which is the best approach to use if I want to store a couple of pdf files (total ~20 mb) for offline usage on android tablets when developing an web app?
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  292. # [10:06] <grantg> paul_irish_: So I got a nasty email asking "why is the gamecenter have such a low frame rate" earlier.
  293. # [10:06] <grantg> Turns out google chrome has bitched up rAF
  294. # [10:06] <grantg> So I removed support
  295. # [10:06] <grantg> Frame rate at 5 fps lol
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  297. # [10:06] <grantg> And I was calling canvas stuff at 60 fps
  298. # [10:07] <grantg> so google chrome was clearly ignoring most draws
  299. # [10:07] <grantg> google chrome still skips at lot even without rAF
  300. # [10:07] <grantg> probably due to logic code in chrome that expects gfx to be updated at very even intervals
  301. # [10:08] <grantg> of course I'm not going to make extra draws to the canvas when nothing needs updating, that wastes cpu
  302. # [10:08] <grantg> unfortunately by doing so, google chrome trashes the frame rate
  303. # [10:08] <grantg> the framing will be like this: draw draw draw draw no-draw draw
  304. # [10:09] <grantg> and google chrome freaks out on the "no-draw"
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  306. # [10:09] <grantg> and skips like 20 frames
  307. # [10:09] <grantg> it's like that in chrome stable through canary
  308. # [10:10] <grantg> chrome will delay screen updates for like 500 ms if it's been awhile since it's last received a draw
  309. # [10:10] <grantg> so any immediate draws will not be fulfilled for half an entire second
  310. # [10:10] <grantg> i.e. google chrome completely trashing the frame rate
  311. # [10:10] <grantg> so the framing skips around a lot
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  315. # [10:11] <grantg> Might as well include a warning saying if it's running in google chrome, expect google chrome bugs to drop the frame rate
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  320. # [10:14] <grantg> Funny, because firefox is the opposite when rAF isn't used
  321. # [10:14] <grantg> no frame skipping
  322. # [10:14] <grantg> and actually does stuff immediately
  323. # [10:14] <grantg> albeit without v-sync
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  326. # [10:16] <grantg> Anyhow, I've filed my share of bug reports
  327. # [10:16] <grantg> been sitting in the tracker for too long
  328. # [10:16] * PavelK is now known as PavelloZ
  329. # [10:16] <grantg> either as wontfix or still unconfirmed, as the chrome devs "don't see the bug"
  330. # [10:17] <grantg> if forcing all canvas apps that draw only on-demand rather than doing dummy draws at a constant to drop to 1 fps isn't a bug.
  331. # [10:17] <grantg> then I don't know what is
  332. # [10:18] <grantg> I know that chrome tries to delay frames, as it software renders way too much, taking up whole cores when doing 60 fps in many cases
  333. # [10:19] <grantg> they're fixing a completely different problem and causing another
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  338. # [10:25] <grantg> also I removed generation of samples outside the core when the emulator sees it's underrunning the buffer
  339. # [10:25] <grantg> chrome has audio drops outs sometimes now
  340. # [10:26] <grantg> but that's due to the way chrome also schedules timing
  341. # [10:26] <grantg> and mis-buffering in web-audio
  342. # [10:26] <grantg> so in a sense I'm removing chrome workarounds
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  344. # [10:27] <grantg> If people complain some more, I'll forward them to make their own crbug report
  345. # [10:27] <grantg> Because I'm not going to make more workarounds for chrome
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  347. # [10:28] <grantg> same with the IE folk where IE9 can't run things at even 0.5 MIPS, as IE9 still runs most stuff in interpreter it seems
  348. # [10:29] <grantg> even IE10 (Feels like Firefox 3.6)
  349. # [10:29] <grantg> gfx fast, js speed is shit
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  351. # [10:32] <grantg> might as well leave making this stuff in js, go back to working on the java and obj-c version
  352. # [10:32] <grantg> *versions
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  354. # [10:32] <grantg> and make people use it in java applet form
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  389. # [11:37] <grantg> Forgot to leave a link to the current crbug: http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=121394
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  392. # [11:37] <grantg> I hope this one sticks
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  490. # [14:01] <sunbeam> does anyone have a good html5 template index.html ?
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  496. # [14:08] <VernonK> Have you checked out HTML5 Boilerplate?
  497. # [14:08] <VernonK> http://html5boilerplate.com/
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  500. # [14:20] <armetiz> Hi there,
  501. # [14:20] <armetiz> I'm working with video tag.
  502. # [14:21] <armetiz> I'm looking on videojs.com to build a mini player.
  503. # [14:21] <sunbeam> Yes
  504. # [14:21] <armetiz> I have seen that timeshifting is working.. But, I don't understand how It work.
  505. # [14:21] <sunbeam> VernonK: thats the one i use currently
  506. # [14:21] <armetiz> Do you have any information about that ? Because "html5 time-shifting" on google isn't really efficiency :s
  507. # [14:22] <armetiz> I have use wireshark to analyze IP transmission.. But, I can see only TCP layer on port 80 without any HTTP upper layer :s
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  509. # [14:23] <VernonK> armetiz: VideoJS is great, but I would suggest taking a few minutes and looking at MediaElementJs. Pretty sweet and gives you consistent UI all the way back to IE6. (http://mediaelementjs.com/)
  510. # [14:24] <armetiz> ok thanks for tips.
  511. # [14:25] <armetiz> but, about timeshifiting.. do you have any clue ? I think that this feature is totally manage by Chrome and isn't a W3C feature :s
  512. # [14:26] <VernonK> By "timeshifting" do you mean like seeking?
  513. # [14:26] <armetiz> yeah, without waiting for full video download.
  514. # [14:27] <armetiz> user want to jump directly to 5min:34sec, I doesn't have to wait to load the video before 5min:34sec, the download start around 5min:34.
  515. # [14:28] <armetiz> The only thing I see, is that I get a HTTP 206 partial content.. But, how it work :/
  516. # [14:28] <VernonK> I'm thinking you could use media events to make this work. Say 'seeking' or 'seeked' with a combo of 'canplay' (http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec-author-view/media-elements.html#event-definitions)
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  524. # [14:40] <BauerUK> does anyone know of a source for comparing multiple mobile browsers and their respective support for HTML5 elements? i'm specifically looking to see what the current state of HTML5 audio for mobile platforms is, including IE10 Metro.
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  603. # [16:40] <ggherdov> I have a multimedia project involving stuff moving around on the screen, some audio too. Like a cartoon, but as 3-years-old would do. I am asking here if html5 is the way to go, and some pointers to relevant keywords/tag I might need (canvas? what else?). Any suggestion on (1) good tutorial (2) examples around the web of still png images (like sprites) moving over a background image (like a theatre scene) in a html5-powered way?
  604. # [16:41] <Pomax> it is so ridiculously hard to make things look like a kid drew them.
  605. # [16:41] <Pomax> the imperfections take bloody forever
  606. # [16:41] <Pomax> personally, I'd go with Processing.js and the partial implementation for the Minim audio library, but that's because I just spent 9 weeks working on an animation project using that =)
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  612. # [16:45] <Pomax> upside of that is you can also run it stand alone or export it to an application for offline use using "real" Processing
  613. # [16:46] <ggherdov> Pomax: when I wrote "but as 3-years-old would do" I meant only "i am not a professional designer", I just need a png stolen from the web floating over another ong stolen from the web. But yeah, processing.js can offer some quick-win (which is what i'd like basically). Any other framework worth mentioning?
  614. # [16:46] <ggherdov> ong --> png
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  621. # [16:53] <ggherdov> Pomax: really, on a completely different matter, when will you processing.js guys will implement a prezi.com clone? prezi people had a great idea, but c'mon ... flash ! and c'mon ... no way to have your presentation locally on your HD ! (think of a company display where info is confidential)
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  626. # [16:57] <Slackline> hello you guys,
  627. # [16:57] <Slackline> you guys, I want to know the name of the image that is the dunes moving in the background, how do I find out the name of that image ??
  628. # [16:57] <Slackline> http://livedemo00.template-help.com/wt_38478/#!/pageHome
  629. # [16:57] <Slackline> plese
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  631. # [16:58] <Slackline> is it possible to find that out ? I can't find it anywhere
  632. # [16:58] <dahlfors> google images have an image search where you can paste in images
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  634. # [16:59] <Pomax> ggherdov, we work on Pjs and then use it in our own projects, find someone who wants to make a non-flash prezi? =P
  635. # [16:59] <Slackline> dahlfors, how do I paste that image in there ? how's that ?
  636. # [17:00] <dahlfors> I think it's explained in google image search if you look around in the interface
  637. # [17:00] <dahlfors> otherwise - google for it :)
  638. # [17:00] <dahlfors> "reverse google image search" or something like that
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  640. # [17:01] <ggherdov> Pomax: well, I do want to make a non-flash prezi. And Pjs could be a starting point actually. Maybe coupled with impress.js (talking random here)
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  642. # [17:02] <Slackline> dahlfors, I get this
  643. # [17:02] <Slackline> http://www.google.com.br/search?as_st=y&tbm=isch&hl=pt-BR&as_q=&as_epq=http+livedemo00+template+help+com+wt_38478&as_oq=&as_eq=&cr=&as_sitesearch=&safe=images&orq=&tbs=sur:f&biw=1152&bih=661&sei=ub15T6yYJY_gggeb1dnVDg#q=http://livedemo00.template-help.com/wt_38478/&hl=pt-BR&as_st=y&tbm=isch&tbas=0&sa=X&ei=wr15T_mIBYjJgQfw0sHTDg&ved=0CEQQtgQ&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=df09a13aee529dbf&biw=1152&bih=661
  644. # [17:02] <mahtis> nice urli
  645. # [17:02] <Pomax> Slackline, the reason you can't see the image is because it's not an image.
  646. # [17:02] <Pomax> it's literally a video.
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  649. # [17:03] <Slackline> I see
  650. # [17:03] <Slackline> which extension is this video Pomax
  651. # [17:03] <Slackline> ??
  652. # [17:03] <mahtis> no one else does
  653. # [17:03] <mahtis> haha!
  654. # [17:03] <Pomax> it's also terribly coded, because it keeps downloading the video anew everytime it stops
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  656. # [17:03] <Pomax> http://livedemo00.template-help.com/wt_38478/media/bgContent.mp4
  657. # [17:04] <dahlfors> page doesn't even load here
  658. # [17:04] <dahlfors> or loads forever
  659. # [17:05] <dahlfors> now
  660. # [17:05] <Pomax> it's a rathr slow site, yes.
  661. # [17:05] <dahlfors> hehe
  662. # [17:05] <Slackline> Pomax, damn you guys are fast
  663. # [17:05] <Pomax> as for how to find the image: find any image of the Grand Canyon.
  664. # [17:05] <dahlfors> in fact, I do recognize the dunes though
  665. # [17:05] <Pomax> because they're not dunes.
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  667. # [17:06] <dahlfors> it's a place that a lot of photographers have photographed
  668. # [17:06] <Pomax> they're stone, like this http://static.flickr.com/136/379797469_881dd69d8b.jpg
  669. # [17:06] <Slackline> yeah, sand
  670. # [17:06] <dahlfors> yes. that's the place
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  672. # [17:06] <Slackline> whatever, tks yuo guys, fantastic
  673. # [17:06] <Pomax> or this
  674. # [17:06] <Pomax> http://i.cdn.cnngo.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/624x468_gallery/2012/02/23/hark_lee_2011_light_of_desert.jpg
  675. # [17:06] <Pomax> for future reference: fire up Chrome, load the site, and see what happens in the "network" tab, as well as what has been downloaded in the "network" tab
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  677. # [17:07] <dahlfors> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wave,_Arizona
  678. # [17:07] <dahlfors> this is the place
  679. # [17:07] <Pomax> (in the inspector)
  680. # [17:07] <Slackline> Pomax, it downloads the image everytime ?
  681. # [17:07] <Pomax> indeed.
  682. # [17:07] <Slackline> how would I change that ?
  683. # [17:08] <Pomax> they seem to be using a loop that goes "has the video ended? better download it again"
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  685. # [17:08] <dahlfors> and this is the canyon inside, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antelope_Canyon
  686. # [17:08] <dahlfors> :)
  687. # [17:08] <Pomax> instead you'd set the video element to looping
  688. # [17:08] <dahlfors> if I ever go to USA, I guess that's a place to visit
  689. # [17:08] <dahlfors> :)
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  701. # [17:15] <sunbeam> I was just trying the most recent html5 boilerplate from http://html5boilerplate.com/
  702. # [17:16] <sunbeam> I noticed there is no more .ico - any reason for this?
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  704. # [17:16] <sunbeam> favicon.ico included in the index.html i mean
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  711. # [17:21] * neersighted|AFK is now known as neersighted
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  714. # [17:24] <dahlfors> sunbeam: just a guess: if you keep the files named correctly and in the root of the server, the browsers will automatically pick them up
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  717. # [17:30] <sunbeam> It is, and yes, I see it
  718. # [17:30] <sunbeam> I just thought some browser didnt
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  720. # [17:31] <sunbeam> btw, is it safe to use html5 now a days (when you use the boilerplate) for a site that suppose to get visitors from all regions?
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  724. # [17:33] <evasivx> Good morning!
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  742. # [17:46] <Slackline> Pomax, man, sorry to disturb you again, but check this out, the video wont display man, it's all right in scripts.js, the paths are ok, please, help you guys, http://splust.com.br/app/webroot/expondo/
  743. # [17:46] <Slackline> I've created /media/bgContent
  744. # [17:47] <Slackline> .mp4
  745. # [17:47] <Pomax> right.
  746. # [17:47] <Pomax> so, before asking for help, verify your claims
  747. # [17:47] <Pomax> because http://splust.com.br/app/webroot/media/bgContent.mp4 doesn't resolve in the slightest
  748. # [17:48] <Pomax> it's a 404 with a sexy lady.
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  750. # [17:48] <Slackline> Pomax, http://splust.com.br/app/webroot/expondo/media/bgContent.mp4
  751. # [17:48] <Slackline> it's inside expondo
  752. # [17:50] <Slackline> in scripts.js I've tryed the full virtual path, all kinds os path's
  753. # [17:50] <Slackline> chmod is set to 777
  754. # [17:50] <Slackline> Pomax,
  755. # [17:50] * Joins: mejiji (~ZogloBack@bzq-109-67-216-205.red.bezeqint.net)
  756. # [17:50] <Pomax> yes, and when I load your website, the link it tries to load is the one I just game you
  757. # [17:50] <Pomax> *gave
  758. # [17:50] <Slackline> I see,
  759. # [17:51] <Pomax> so your code gets this URL, even if you think you made it get another one instead
  760. # [17:51] <Slackline> Pomax, I've changed to: http://splust.com.br/app/webroot/expondo/media/
  761. # [17:51] * Joins: deasy (~deasy@109.89.87.172)
  762. # [17:52] <Slackline> in scripts.js, but the problem still happens
  763. # [17:52] <Slackline> sorry, the ftp didn't overwrite
  764. # [17:52] <Slackline> 1 min
  765. # [17:54] <Slackline> Pomax, check now man, http://splust.com.br/app/webroot/expondo/js/scripts.js
  766. # [17:55] <Slackline> the problem persists, weird
  767. # [17:55] <Pomax> a .js file is not relevant to me.
  768. # [17:55] <Pomax> I am loading your website, and looking at what your resource requests are.
  769. # [17:55] <Slackline> Pomax, I see
  770. # [17:55] <Pomax> with your fix to the correct URL, it works fine
  771. # [17:56] <Slackline> can you see the mp4 running ?
  772. # [17:56] <Pomax> yes
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  774. # [17:56] <Slackline> in here? http://splust.com.br/app/webroot/expondo/
  775. # [17:56] <Slackline> why can't I see it ?
  776. # [17:57] <Slackline> I'm not seeing it man, I've restarted the browser
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  778. # [17:58] <Slackline> not showing man, in any of the computers in ehre
  779. # [17:58] <Slackline> here
  780. # [17:58] <Slackline> Pomax,
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  785. # [17:59] <Pomax> clear your cache
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  787. # [17:59] <B3Jesus> It's working here, yo.
  788. # [18:00] <Pomax> it won't work in firefox and that's probably because you're loading ".ogg" instead of ".ogv"
  789. # [18:01] <Pomax> it works fine in Chrome, which goes with the .mp4 video instead
  790. # [18:02] <Slackline> why the other link works for me ?
  791. # [18:02] <Slackline> Pomax, works fine for me in firefox: http://livedemo00.template-help.com/wt_38478/#!/pageHome
  792. # [18:02] <Slackline> why in the same browser, this won't work: http://splust.com.br/expondo/#!/pageHome
  793. # [18:02] <Slackline> weird
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  796. # [18:03] <Slackline> did not work in chrome for me as well
  797. # [18:03] <Pomax> chrome needs hardcore cache cleaing.
  798. # [18:03] <Pomax> *clearing
  799. # [18:04] <Pomax> options -> under the bonnet -> clear browsing data button, then pick "empty the cache"
  800. # [18:04] <Pomax> chrome loves getting updated files wrong if they didn't change filesize, even if you tell it to reload the page manually
  801. # [18:04] <Pomax> heck, sometimes even if they DID change file size...
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  805. # [18:06] <Slackline> but why firefox works in one line, and not in the other with the exactly same browser
  806. # [18:06] <Slackline> ?
  807. # [18:07] <Pomax> this is a question you can answer yourself, by using firebug and checking what it's NET" tab says happens when you load the page
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  810. # [18:07] <sunbeam> does the validator at validator.w3.org only check non-html5 documents?
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  812. # [18:08] <Pomax> it checks HTML5 "experimentally"
  813. # [18:08] <sunbeam> That kinda sucks
  814. # [18:08] <sunbeam> hmm
  815. # [18:08] <sunbeam> I mean, after such long time
  816. # [18:08] <Pomax> note the quotes.
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  818. # [18:08] <sunbeam> I know approving things takes a long time for reasons in this
  819. # [18:08] <Pomax> it checks anything in HTML5 that's pretty much settled on
  820. # [18:08] <Slackline> weird man, if it works for you, should work for me
  821. # [18:08] <Slackline> don't you think ?
  822. # [18:09] <Slackline> never saw such a thing
  823. # [18:09] <Pomax> Slackline: not really, no. I have no idea which browsers and operating systems you're using
  824. # [18:09] <sunbeam> Pomax: HTML 4.01 Transitional it sees html5 docs
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  826. # [18:09] <Pomax> does your html start with <!doctype html>?
  827. # [18:09] <sunbeam> yes
  828. # [18:10] <Slackline> <!DOCTYPE html>
  829. # [18:10] <Slackline> <html lang="en">
  830. # [18:10] <sunbeam> doesnt matter
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  832. # [18:10] <Slackline> ubuntu, firefox 11.0
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  834. # [18:11] <Slackline> is my doc type wrong ?
  835. # [18:11] <Pomax> Slackline, that is literally information I don't care about. Look at what firebug says it's loading under "NET", or if you're in Chrome, look at what the inspector says under "network".
  836. # [18:12] <sunbeam> Pomax: nevermind sorry
  837. # [18:12] <Pomax> if "it doesn't work" then that means that it should signal errors when trying to load your videos.
  838. # [18:12] <Slackline> I'll download firebug,
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  841. # [18:14] <Slackline> Pomax, under net, I've choose, media
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  843. # [18:14] <Slackline> when I hit f5, it shows something very fast, and vanished,
  844. # [18:15] <Slackline> vanishes
  845. # [18:15] <Pomax> show all
  846. # [18:15] <Pomax> don't try to filter things.
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  848. # [18:19] <sunbeam> For some reason somebody added my google analytics account to their site.. how can I remove this site?
  849. # [18:20] <Pomax> just contact them and tell them they're using your account?
  850. # [18:20] <Slackline> Pomax, you're the man, http://livedemo00.template-help.com/wt_38478/media/bgContent.webm
  851. # [18:20] <Slackline> Pomax, I think now I get it,
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  877. # [18:44] <Slackline> Pomax, man, I'm going crazy man, why works on my localhost on IE, and online wont work with ie, but will work with chrome
  878. # [18:44] <Slackline> firebug tells me nothing else
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  880. # [18:44] <Slackline> http://splust.com.br/app/webroot/expondo/#!/pageHome
  881. # [18:45] <Pomax> in IE, hit F12
  882. # [18:45] <Slackline> I'm on ubuntu Pomax
  883. # [18:45] <Pomax> firebug isn't going to tell you why IE doesn't work.
  884. # [18:45] <Slackline> no IE in here
  885. # [18:45] <Pomax> if you don't have IE, why are you saying IE doesn't work?
  886. # [18:45] <Slackline> sorry, not IE, but firefox
  887. # [18:45] <Slackline> sorry
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  889. # [18:45] <Pomax> are you waiting for it to finish loading?
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  891. # [18:45] <Pomax> online = longer wait for the video to kick in
  892. # [18:46] <Slackline> I'm waiting for over a minute now, too long, not showing ]
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  894. # [18:47] <Slackline> but the same link shows in chrome, and when localhost works in both
  895. # [18:47] <Slackline> the problem is that online wont work in firefox 11.0
  896. # [18:47] <Pomax> see what firebug says it loaded in NET, and double click the videos there, if they don't report download problems.
  897. # [18:47] <Pomax> that should make them load "on their own" in a new tab. If they play, magic is happening. If they don't, you found the problem.
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  906. # [18:54] <Slackline> Pomax, that's the problem man, the video is in the correct place, and loads ok in an individual tab,
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  908. # [18:54] <Slackline> Pomax, but works in one browser and not in the other
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  910. # [18:54] <Slackline> sucks so much
  911. # [18:55] <Pomax> last option is to open the web console in firefox and see if it reports any problems.
  912. # [18:55] <Pomax> if not, someone else might know what's wrong, but not me.
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  919. # [18:56] <Slackline> Pomax, says it downloaded this file, but the file doesn't exist
  920. # [18:56] <Slackline> http://www.splust.com.br/expondo/media/bgContent.ogg
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  925. # [18:58] <StoneCypher> Slackline: it's kind of weird that things leave to the right and feed from the left, but when you back up, that doesn't reverse
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  929. # [19:00] <Slackline> StoneCypher, what would you do ?
  930. # [19:03] <StoneCypher> reverse the direction when backing up
  931. # [19:03] <StoneCypher> i mean the effect is nicve
  932. # [19:03] <StoneCypher> it just seems discongruous that forward and back don't go opposite directions
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  941. # [19:08] <Slackline> StoneCypher, whattt ???
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  943. # [19:11] <StoneCypher> pick island. things move right.
  944. # [19:11] <StoneCypher> hit browser back button. things move ... not left.
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  956. # [19:18] <Slackline> StoneCypher, not even sure if we are talking about the same, what island ?
  957. # [19:18] <Slackline> hit back button ? what for ? which things move ?
  958. # [19:19] * StoneCypher facepalms hard
  959. # [19:19] <StoneCypher> [12:37] <Slackline> http://splust.com.br/app/webroot/expondo/#!/pageHome
  960. # [19:19] <StoneCypher> so you open that
  961. # [19:19] <StoneCypher> bali is an island
  962. # [19:19] <StoneCypher> so you click it
  963. # [19:19] <StoneCypher> all the stuff folds up and moves off to the right
  964. # [19:19] <StoneCypher> right is a direction
  965. # [19:20] <StoneCypher> it's kind of like up, or down, but different
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  967. # [19:20] <StoneCypher> seriously this is so very not complicated
  968. # [19:20] <Slackline> ok, It's opened
  969. # [19:20] <StoneCypher> you didn't make this page, did you
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  972. # [19:22] <Slackline> StoneCypher, well, not sure, but why would a website show in firefox, chrome, offline, and when online, only work with chrome, not with firefox ?
  973. # [19:22] <Slackline> same website works in firefox in my localhost, but wont work when in the server, but works with other browsers
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  976. # [19:26] <Slackline> and the same browser, when oppening : http://livedemo00.template-help.com/wt_38478/#!/pageHome
  977. # [19:26] <Slackline> works 100%, CAN'T BEE
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  982. # [19:29] <StoneCypher> hooray, riven's abusing ops again
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  1086. # [21:30] <brontosaurusrex> why exactly is desirable to use <ul><li> stuff for navigation?
  1087. # [21:32] <tw2113> well aren't navigation elements usually a list?
  1088. # [21:32] <brontosaurusrex> tw2113: so its just about semantics?
  1089. # [21:32] <tw2113> part of it
  1090. # [21:32] <tw2113> nothing is stopping someone from using just <a> tags or paragraphs with a tags
  1091. # [21:33] <tw2113> lists make it really easy to get nested menus too
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  1095. # [21:35] <dotmariusz> i would still prefer <nav> for navigation.
  1096. # [21:36] <dotmariusz> (with a list inside it, probably)
  1097. # [21:39] <tw2113> ^
  1098. # [21:39] <brontosaurusrex> so <nav><ul><li>1<li>2<ul><li>2b<li>2c … ?
  1099. # [21:40] <tw2113> yup
  1100. # [21:40] <danielfilho> you don't need the ul
  1101. # [21:40] <danielfilho> <nav><li>
  1102. # [21:40] <danielfilho> {...}
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  1104. # [21:40] <brontosaurusrex> danielfilho: and submenu?
  1105. # [21:40] * tw2113 is unsure how browsers handle li's without an ol/ul
  1106. # [21:40] <tw2113> or which one they default to
  1107. # [21:41] <danielfilho> I was pretty sure to have read something telling about it
  1108. # [21:41] <danielfilho> but I can't find it anymore.
  1109. # [21:41] <danielfilho> and on w3c samples, they use ul, so, do use it :)
  1110. # [21:42] <tw2113> i do like the idea of leaving off closing li tags
  1111. # [21:42] <tw2113> <li>item 1 <li>item 2
  1112. # [21:42] <brontosaurusrex> and thats cool under html5?
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  1114. # [21:42] <danielfilho> it is
  1115. # [21:43] <danielfilho> as long as you don't use strict mode
  1116. # [21:43] <brontosaurusrex> is there a special header for strict mode?
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  1118. # [21:43] <danielfilho> about closing tags, check out this source: http://www.google.com/404
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  1121. # [21:45] <danielfilho> actually xhtml5 i meant. dude, i'm out of my mind today. damn you roger waters.
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  1123. # [21:45] <danielfilho> lol :)
  1124. # [21:45] <danielfilho> http://blog.whatwg.org/xhtml5-in-a-nutshell
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  1142. # [22:06] <brontosaurusrex> unrelated, question about html5 video byte-range access: so few days ago i finally updated my old karmic server to lucid - which comes with new apache - and noticed that mp4/avc stuff can now "stream", that is i can jump to video parts that haven't been preloaded…, (very cool), but the timeline representation of the buffer gets broken, is there a js api/lib that could actually read the correct parts of the buffer-info, so i can display ti
  1143. # [22:06] <brontosaurusrex> like : !!!!!!!!!!!!……….!!!!!!!!!!.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!………!!!!!!youarrehere!!!!!! ?
  1144. # [22:06] <brontosaurusrex> where dots are unbuffered parts and ! are buffered.
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  1264. # [23:30] <echoSMILE> any funcional way to build desktop apps using (remote) html5 ?
  1265. # [23:31] <StoneCypher> sure.
  1266. # [23:31] <StoneCypher> "how" by doing it.
  1267. # [23:31] <StoneCypher> build your app in html/js, use local features if you need to, use a manifest to say "these are the resources you keep offline"
  1268. # [23:31] <StoneCypher> done.
  1269. # [23:32] <StoneCypher> in some contexts, eg iOS, Android, Windows Metro, etc, that's also enough to run through some packaging tool or compiler to make an offical app.
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  1271. # [23:33] <echoSMILE> StoneCypher: buw how you run that app? inside of a browser? What im looking for is something more simple and dedicated.
  1272. # [23:33] <echoSMILE> *but
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  1287. # [23:49] <StoneCypher> echoSMILE: well
  1288. # [23:50] <StoneCypher> echoSMILE: so look, easier to do it by example
  1289. # [23:50] <StoneCypher> echoSMILE: the simplest case is you go to any browser and you hit file | save as, web page complete. in iOS it's called "pin to desktop.
  1290. # [23:50] <StoneCypher> if you want it in app stores, the process is almost the same, but slightly different, for each environment
  1291. # [23:51] <StoneCypher> in Win8 / Windows phones, just download MSVS, tell it "metro JS application," add your app code, and hit compile; done
  1292. # [23:51] <StoneCypher> in Android, there's about 15 lines of boilerplate you write, that say something to the effect of "make a browser, attach it to 0,0 - width,height, put it at the front, load this page in it," etc
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  1297. # [23:52] <StoneCypher> in iOS, there's a project type and you spend about 20 lines of code writing out what files get compiled in (images, CSS, .js dependencies, etc), then you sign it
  1298. # [23:52] <StoneCypher> so i mean in each case, if it's something youv'e done before and already know how to do, it takes like two hours per target (more like 5 minutes with Metro,) and then you submit to the store and wait a few days or a few weeks
  1299. # [23:53] <StoneCypher> every major platform has a browser embeddable app at this point - Windows, Mac, Linux, iOS, Android, Win Mobile, Blackberry, Nintendo Wii, on and on it goes
  1300. # [23:54] <echoSMILE> Im looking at mozilla prism, and is this what Im looking for, but this dont seams a solid solution.
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  1304. # [23:58] <echoSMILE> StoneCypher: Im more directed to desktop as win/linux/osx
  1305. # Session Close: Tue Apr 03 00:00:00 2012

The end :)