/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2012-04-05 / end

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# Session Start: Thu Apr 05 00:00:00 2012
# Session Ident: #html5
# [00:00] <jarek> sunbeam: what do you mean by non-standard font?
# [00:00] <jarek> sunbeam: if the license allow for that, you can embed it with @font-face CSS rule
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# [00:01] <jarek> http://www.fontsquirrel.com/fontface/generator should generate it for you
# [00:02] <sunbeam> jarek: yes, but a way so that it works aswell on IE7 (6) etc
# [00:04] <jarek> sunbeam: IE6/7 users don't deserve for that
# [00:04] <jarek> they should see the ugly fonts
# [00:04] <jarek> ugly browser = ugly fonts
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# [00:05] <jarek> sunbeam: and if your client has made it as requirement, tell him about graceful degradation
# [00:05] <sunbeam> ok
# [00:05] <jarek> but if I recall correctly, IE6/7 did support webfonts
# [00:06] <jarek> but definitely not woff
# [00:06] <jarek> still, I don't think it's worth the hassle
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# [00:07] <jarek> http://webfonts.info/wiki/index.php?title=@font-face_support_in_Internet_Explorer
# [00:07] <jarek> wow, it was there even in IE4
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# [00:11] <f17dog> hi guys, i'm using a jquery plugins to customize scrollbar
# [00:12] <f17dog> but, the strange thing is that arrows to scroll appears only after I click "inspect element" on chrome o ff
# [00:12] <jarek> f17dog: I already feel sorry for you
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# [00:13] <f17dog> jarek, seems like i'm one step from a full working customized scrollbar
# [00:13] <jarek> f17dog: on WebKit browsers you can style the scrollbars with CSS
# [00:14] <jarek> f17dog: on other browsers it's impossible so the only solution is to hide them completely (overflow: hidden) and use fake scrollbars in form of several divs
# [00:14] <f17dog> yeah, I know, but this plugin seems to work well since I don't use style position block
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# [00:16] <dahlfors> sunbeam: yes. use fontsquirrel
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# [00:17] <dahlfors> sunbeam: a good note is that firefox and ie will require a different http header if you want to allow it on all of your subdomains and not only on www. or so
# [00:17] <dahlfors> sunbeam: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2892691/font-face-fonts-only-work-on-their-own-domain
# [00:18] <dahlfors> not really the obvious place you look at when you notice it bugs in some browsers but works in others.. :)
# [00:18] <f17dog> jarek, i've a display: none that works when I change it to block but not if i change it to ''
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# [00:23] <dahlfors> sunbeam: also, note that IE only supports two weights per font, normal and bold, not 100 -> 900
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# [00:24] <dahlfors> keep those two in mind and use fontsquirrel and you should be good to go
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# [02:20] <IanWizard> Ok, maybe I'm just too tired to think. I've got an SVG, I've tried it inline, and even loading it as an .svg file in chrome, no matter what I do... images aren't loading. I've done it using local urls, and even using the full url (http://localhost/static/image_file.png in this case).
# [02:21] <IanWizard> No matter what I do.... no images get loaded.
# [02:21] <h1ll37> http://www.bodythefitnessboutique.com/back/hello.html this won't work on ipod touches? Anyone know why? It's video
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# [08:10] <BoF> hi all
# [08:10] <BoF> hola a todos
# [08:10] <BoF> alguien de habla hispana?
# [08:13] <Demp> que hora es?
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# [08:21] <BoF> Demp, tengo las 3:13
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# [08:24] <dr0id> sdjf jsdf knae ojow
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# [08:42] <gpantazis> nothing's quite as nice as spending a week on a really nice layout only to have juniors destroy it
# [08:43] * gpantazis needs a drink
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# [08:47] <ontime> does anyone have a little bit of html5 code that would be fun to play with?
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# [08:47] <gpantazis> <marquee>HI</marquee>
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# [09:10] <ontime> gpantazis: that's not exactly what I meant...
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# [09:14] <Demp> <canvas>
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# [09:19] <gpantazis> I hear word this canvas thing's a pretty big deal.
# [09:20] <jovrtn> did you… canvas the neighborhood for that information?
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# [09:23] <gpantazis> http://www.hiyoooo.com/
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# [09:32] <niftylettuce> gpantazis: lol
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# [09:32] <niftylettuce> gpantazis: i h8 it when dem' jr's destroy da layoutz
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# [09:37] <gpantazis> There are no words
# [09:37] <gpantazis> only tears.
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# [09:38] <gpantazis> and dozens of functions that tie into knots and explode
# [09:39] <tw2113> anonymous functions?
# [09:39] <gpantazis> for starters
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# [09:43] <grantg> paul_irish: Apparently google chrome is slow as balls when you putImageData to the canvas being shown onscreen, while putImageData'ing to an offscreen, then applying a drawImage to scale it explicitly, rather than doing it directly to screen with CSS to scale it is much faster.
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# [09:43] <grantg> Found a way to trick google chrome to not be retarded with HW acceleration
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# [09:43] <niftylettuce> grantg: yo dude
# [09:44] <grantg> hey nifty
# [09:44] <niftylettuce> :)
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# [09:44] <grantg> The steps listed above have OPPOSITE PERFORMANCE IMPLICATIONS for firefox
# [09:44] <grantg> so you have to user agent sniff
# [09:45] <grantg> firefox acts like how chrome does beforehand
# [09:45] <grantg> f'ing HW acceleration lolz
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# [09:46] <grantg> Because firefox can accelerate scaling IF the image is scaled via CSS, rather than by the canvas2d api
# [09:46] <grantg> while chrome is the freaking opposite
# [09:46] <grantg> because firefox HW accelerates layers
# [09:47] <grantg> while chrome accelerates the api
# [09:47] <grantg> LOL
# [09:47] <grantg> so this means chrome is failing to HW accelerate layers
# [09:50] <grantg> Let me check Safari now
# [09:50] <grantg> seems webkit based browsers only like to hw accelerate the api, but not the actual render layers
# [09:54] <niftylettuce> grantg: why dont u work for google already
# [09:54] <niftylettuce> :)
# [09:57] <grantg> Because I'm still in college?
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# [09:57] <grantg> :P
# [09:57] <grantg> gonna push the changes
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# [09:58] <grantg> https://github.com/grantgalitz/GameBoy-Online/commit/2ac2902e08f8c7115285bc3787eb4202977e8bae
# [09:58] <socialhapy> ★ Commit on GameBoy-Online by grantgalitz (22.87s ago): Hardware acceleration trick for Google Chrome (Chrome does not accelerate layers, rather just the API.).
# [09:59] <grantg> LOL the "if (window && window.mozRequestAnimationFrame)"
# [09:59] <grantg> so dirty
# [10:00] <grantg> I don't use window.mozRequestAnimation frame, or any rAF
# [10:00] <grantg> I just detect this to see if it's firefox
# [10:01] <grantg> if firefox is too old, it won't hw accelerate anything, so it doesn't matter if it will fail on older versions
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# [10:10] <grantg> holy cow, much smoother in chrome now
# [10:10] <grantg> yeah, chrome hates scaling via layers (a.k.a. CSS scaling the canvas)
# [10:12] <grantg> whoa
# [10:12] <grantg> a wild vertical screen tear appears in chrome
# [10:12] <grantg> totally weird
# [10:13] <grantg> seems drawImage has sync problems a little in chrome
# [10:13] <niftylettuce> any good Hipchat alternatives?
# [10:13] <niftylettuce> guess its offtopic nvm
# [10:13] <niftylettuce> irc ftw i suppose
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# [10:30] <grantg> okay.. updated the js at http://gamecenter.grantgalitz.org/ to use the trick to hw accelerate chrome, and to make sure firefox doesn't slow down with it
# [10:31] <niftylettuce> grantg: woa u added games
# [10:31] <niftylettuce> roms
# [10:32] <grantg> lol
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# [10:33] <niftylettuce> grantg: this is smooth dude nice job.
# [10:33] <niftylettuce> audio is killer now
# [10:34] <niftylettuce> grantg: hey bro i got a question for you, you use github a lot, and I was wondering what type of desktop notifications you'd like to get from github? a notification from pushes/pulls/issue updates to all of your repos?
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# [10:34] <niftylettuce> grantg: only to specific repositores?
# [10:34] <grantg> does it run for you?
# [10:34] <niftylettuce> grantg: yeah
# [10:35] <grantg> I changed how the audio logic maintains the buffer recently
# [10:35] <grantg> and changed the system timer
# [10:35] <niftylettuce> im thinking notifications on all of your repos and your organization repos is good
# [10:35] <grantg> I have a feeling it broke some browser out there on some OS
# [10:35] <grantg> as each browser on each OS has edge case bugs, especially with audio buffering
# [10:35] <grantg> supposedly it locks up firefox on ubuntu now
# [10:36] <niftylettuce> grantg: let me try, im on linux mint/ ubuntu
# [10:36] <grantg> as firefox on ubuntu reports back the wrong buffer position
# [10:36] <niftylettuce> wow i can play megaman now.
# [10:36] <grantg> It works on windows 7, need to re-test on XP
# [10:36] <grantg> I bet XP might have messed up too
# [10:37] <grantg> As I lowered the audio latency there
# [10:38] <niftylettuce> grantg: works fine on ubuntu/ffox for me
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# [11:20] <levnikolaevic> hi guys, i've a flv file to embed in my homepage that has to autoplay in fullscreen mode
# [11:21] <levnikolaevic> is there a way to do that?
# [11:21] <levnikolaevic> i've heard about it such as impossible thing due to flash restrictions. Is that true?
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# [11:32] <dahlfors> you could do it, with some kind of trojan...
# [11:32] <dahlfors> otherwise, go for some kind of fullsize mode inside your document area
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# [11:35] <dahlfors> for good user experience, you could have an autoplaying movie, and let the "view in fullscreen" button be clearly distinguishable for the user, so that the user wants to view it in fullscreen
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# [14:03] <sunbeam> What is currently the best way to display / use a font that's not standard ? (eg. surface)
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# [14:07] <dahlfors> sunbeam: I wrote reply to you yesterday
# [14:07] <dahlfors> 23:00 < dahlfors> sunbeam: yes. use fontsquirrel
# [14:07] <dahlfors> 23:01 < dahlfors> sunbeam: a good note is that firefox and ie will require a different http header if you want to allow it on all of your subdomains and not only on www. or so
# [14:07] <dahlfors> 23:01 < dahlfors> sunbeam: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2892691/font-face-fonts-only-work-on-their-own-domain
# [14:07] <dahlfors> 23:02 < dahlfors> not really the obvious place you look at when you notice it bugs in some browsers but works in others.. :)
# [14:07] <sunbeam> thanks!
# [14:08] <dahlfors> 23:08 < dahlfors> sunbeam: also, note that IE only supports two weights per font, normal and bold, not 100 -> 900
# [14:08] <dahlfors> 23:08 < dahlfors> keep those two in mind and use fontsquirrel and you should be good to go
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# [16:57] <evasivx> Morning!
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# [17:58] <WebDragon> body { font: 15px helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: 1.625; } passes w3 validator, and yet line-height has no unit set (px, em, pt, in, feet, miles, whatever)
# [18:00] * moo-_- would love to see miles as CSS unit, though it is imperial
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# [18:01] <WebDragon> hehe
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# [18:02] <WebDragon> I'm more concerned that it's slipping thru the validator without a valid unit
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# [18:16] <Pomax> is there a JS event for the browser being minimised when going to the iOS homescreen?
# [18:16] <Pomax> I need a way to turn of whatever a/v element is playing when that happens =)
# [18:17] <moo-_-> Pomax: there is recent work regarding hidden status of pages
# [18:17] <moo-_-> it is also fired when tabs are switched and so on
# [18:17] <moo-_-> is this what you want?
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# [18:18] <Pomax> maybe. That just sounds like it's most a document.focus/blur event
# [18:18] <Pomax> which I guess I might be able to use
# [18:19] <moo-_-> Pomax: this http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3648120/is-there-a-way-track-the-focus-on-tab-with-javascript ?
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# [18:20] <Pomax> yeah that looks like plain focus and blur. time to see if that fixes things
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# [19:13] <aljosa> is it possible to use some polyfill to get multiple file upload support? i need ie7+, ff3.5+ and newer webkit browsers support. so: 1) button 2) click and select files 3) upload to server 4) some kind js onComplete event
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# [19:18] <Velmont> aljosa: You'll get Opera for free there as well, if you don't do anything stupid like browser sniffing.
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# [19:34] <moo-_-> aljosa: use java or flash
# [19:34] <moo-_-> it's hardly a polyfill
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# [19:35] <moo-_-> more like more annoying than chosing files one by one
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# [19:38] <vertigo4d> hello
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# [19:40] <vertigo4d> I'm making a game multiplaform (with canvas) , and I notice the navigators from android blurs the canvas when I don't touch the context
# [19:40] <vertigo4d> these blur makes the game more slow, when I push the canvas goes like double of speed
# [19:41] <vertigo4d> there is some navigator or form of turn off the blur ? I already scale the page at 1:1 proportion and continue bluring
# [19:43] <Pomax> are you taking pixelratio into account?
# [19:44] <vertigo4d> i use less resolution than the screen
# [19:44] <Pomax> http://joubert.posterous.com/crisp-html-5-canvas-text-on-mobile-phones-and
# [19:44] <vertigo4d> and this in canvas declaration
# [19:44] <vertigo4d> <canvas id="canvas" width="640" height="480" style="position:absolute; top: 0px;border: 3px">
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# [19:46] <vertigo4d> Pomax: I will test, thanks
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# [20:01] <vertigo4d> nope, sorry
# [20:02] <vertigo4d> I continue with the same problem, the navigator continue bluring if I don't touch the screen continusly, anybody notice it ?
# [20:02] <vertigo4d> anybody with a low end android?
# [20:03] <Pomax> you could try to grab the context with an {antialias: false} option... although I don't know if that works for 2d
# [20:05] <vertigo4d> Pomax: thanks , i don't listen about that before, i will test
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# [21:07] <andygrossman> Hi all - I'm working on a marketing email with a mess of tables - the bottommost element (copyright notice) is not following the <td colspan> instruction for some reason. It's the right width but isn't centerng itself so it breaks the email's border image. Any suggestions to look for or changes I might be missing?
# [21:08] <andygrossman> I can post a screengrab if my question isn't clear enough...
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# [22:13] <davidmurdoch> Password reset processes.... lets talk about them.
# [22:14] <davidmurdoch> I'm against "password hint" or "security questions" on websites
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# [22:14] <davidmurdoch> 110%
# [22:15] <mnemoc> god bless sindication :p
# [22:18] <davidmurdoch> hrm?
# [22:19] <mnemoc> "Syndicated Accounts"
# [22:19] <mnemoc> delegating auth to a trusted third party, openid, oauth2, etc...
# [22:19] <davidmurdoch> oh, i thought you were replying to what I said
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# [22:20] <mnemoc> sort of I did
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# [22:20] <davidmurdoch> ah, got it
# [22:20] <davidmurdoch> sometimes its not an option (because of the client)
# [22:20] <mnemoc> with syndidated accounts you don't have to deal with password reset processes on your site/app
# [22:21] <davidmurdoch> well, what if you DO have to deal with that?
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# [22:22] <mnemoc> if I must I like to send to the primary mail address a onetime link to reset it. again, delegating trust. in this case email account control
# [22:22] <davidmurdoch> do you add "password hints"
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# [22:22] <davidmurdoch> mnemoc, EXACTLY what I like to do
# [22:22] <davidmurdoch> I have a client that brought up an interesting issue:
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# [22:22] <davidmurdoch> alot of people have email accounts with their ISP
# [22:22] <davidmurdoch> e.g. davidmurdoch@my.isp.com
# [22:23] <davidmurdoch> if they move or change ISPs they loose that account
# [22:23] <mnemoc> they need to loose both, the password on your site AND the address they set as primary at the same time
# [22:24] <davidmurdoch> explain? "loose both"
# [22:24] <mnemoc> lose
# [22:24] <mnemoc> stupid typo
# [22:24] <davidmurdoch> If they were logging into my account with their davidmurdoch@my.isp.com email address and now they don't have access to that account...
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# [22:25] <davidmurdoch> "my account" == "my site", sorry
# [22:25] <mnemoc> don't make the mail address their primary key
# [22:26] <mnemoc> let them have more than one address, and let them choose to which to send the recovery
# [22:26] <davidmurdoch> that doesn't matter
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# [22:26] <mnemoc> partially obfuscating the addresses for privacy
# [22:26] <davidmurdoch> the point is that they don't know their password and want to reset it.
# [22:26] <davidmurdoch> I would set them a 1 time use password reset link to the email on the account...but they don't have access anymore
# [22:27] <Pomax> this is why we invented security questions
# [22:27] <davidmurdoch> "set" = "send"
# [22:27] <davidmurdoch> right, but security questions are flawed, too
# [22:28] <mnemoc> if they lost both, the password to your site and the access to all registered mail addresses at the same time, f* them.
# [22:28] <Pomax> "alright you lost access to your password... answer the following three questions *that you set up*"
# [22:28] <Pomax> not "that we ask of you"
# [22:28] <Pomax> so no "what is your favourite animal" but when they sign up, force them to come up with security questions that make sense to them.
# [22:28] <mnemoc> I don't know anyone who actually remembers those answers unless they are obvius... to anyone knowing the person
# [22:28] <Pomax> which is why you make them make the question.
# [22:28] <davidmurdoch> mnemoc. EXACTLY!
# [22:29] <davidmurdoch> Pomax, that doesn't *really* solve the security issue
# [22:29] <Pomax> that's because the problem is not a security one.
# [22:29] <Pomax> it's a user one.
# [22:29] <davidmurdoch> because during the password reset process an ATTACKER could still see the questions
# [22:29] <mnemoc> davidmurdoch: if the loser forgot his credentials and lost the access to all the registered accounts, he is better creating another account.
# [22:30] <davidmurdoch> mnemoc, thats what I was afraid of.
# [22:30] <davidmurdoch> GMAIL requires an alternate email address
# [22:30] <Pomax> ssl mitigates this a little, but if they have no secondary method of authentication and they lose both their password and accesss to their address, then their problem is their problem, really.
# [22:30] <StoneCypher> permits*
# [22:30] <davidmurdoch> which does potentially have the same problem.
# [22:30] <Pomax> a good system will let you register more than one email address, if you have more than one.
# [22:30] <mnemoc> davidmurdoch: and if critical allow account merging after a human verifies it's really the same person
# [22:30] <Pomax> so that there's always a fallback.
# [22:30] <davidmurdoch> SLL doesn't mitgate that issue at all.
# [22:31] <davidmurdoch> but I agree... the problem is their problem
# [22:31] <Pomax> you don't spontaneously lose an email address, so it's also in part their fault for not changing their address for their login
# [22:31] <mnemoc> SSL is just another credential, for the same user
# [22:31] <davidmurdoch> "Failure to plan on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part"
# [22:31] <Pomax> if you change ISPs or jobs, you know that change is going to happen.
# [22:31] <Pomax> exactly
# [22:32] <mnemoc> to be sure the loser doesn't keep an old primary mail address, show it to him often
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# [22:32] <mnemoc> and make it easy to add more addresses, and change the primary
# [22:32] <davidmurdoch> mnemoc... or require that be their primary "key"
# [22:32] <WeThePeople> hi
# [22:32] <Pomax> you could force your users to keep their address up to date by having the system generate a new password for them each month, but that actually makes things MUCH more dangerous ;)
# [22:33] <mnemoc> davidmurdoch: don't use mail addresses as primary key
# [22:33] <davidmurdoch> Pomax.. and annoy users too
# [22:33] <mnemoc> neither usernames
# [22:33] <davidmurdoch> mnemoc... i hate usernames
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# [22:34] <Pomax> usernames are something you set as profile option, having a username and an email adress is doing too much.
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# [22:34] <mnemoc> the user been just a hash, logs in using any registered and verified address, you show him the one chosen as primary
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# [22:35] <davidmurdoch> mnemoc, i'm just saying that required the user pick a username sucks
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# [22:37] <davidmurdoch> Back in the 90s I chose a "username" that I used everywhere and noone else had... 15 years later I can't sign up to new services with that username ANYWHERE because other people use it too.
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# [22:37] <davidmurdoch> usernames are always awful. If you want your users to have a custom "display" name make that an option.
# [22:38] <Pomax> I have that problem right now.
# [22:38] <davidmurdoch> anyone else have any good ideas?
# [22:38] <Pomax> Apparenly, some jerk uses "pomax" on reddit =P
# [22:38] <Pomax> beyond "multiple email addresses" and "you are responsible for making sure you always have a valid address"... not really.
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# [22:43] <davidmurdoch> thanks for your opinions, guys
# [22:43] <mnemoc> +1
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# [22:43] <davidmurdoch> (or girls, I don't want to upset rmurphy) :-p
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# [22:44] <davidmurdoch> er, Murphey, sorry Rebecca
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# Session Close: Fri Apr 06 00:00:01 2012

The end :)