/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2012-04-13 / end

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# Session Start: Fri Apr 13 00:00:00 2012
# Session Ident: #html5
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# [01:52] <ExpFist> Does anyone know why changing the audio currentTime element would go to a different spot in Internet Explorer 9 vs all other browsers?
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# [02:01] <ExpFist> anyone? :F
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# [02:02] <dilvie> ExpFist: has the loadedmetadata event fired in IE when you try calling currentTime?
# [02:03] <ExpFist> canplaythrough has if that's what you mean?
# [02:04] <dilvie> ExpFist: is the audio.duration correct?
# [02:04] <dilvie> in IE?
# [02:05] <ExpFist> Not sure, I can write that to the console and check
# [02:05] <ExpFist> In this example, other browsers the correct time is 60.792
# [02:05] <ExpFist> Where in IE, it seems to be 58.792
# [02:05] <ExpFist> For the same spot in the audio file
# [02:05] <ExpFist> Where an audio editor has the first as correct for the exact time
# [02:07] <dilvie> are you saying that when you set the currentTime, and then subsequently get the currentTime, the numbers are not the same?
# [02:07] <dilvie> Can you reproduce the problem with a test case on jsfiddle.net?
# [02:08] <ExpFist> I can try, give me a bit. Thanks
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# [02:13] <ExpFist> Hmm
# [02:14] <ExpFist> The duration seems to be just after where I want it to go, but it's definetly a longer file
# [02:14] <ExpFist> Not only that, sometimes it doesn't load and currentTime = 60; throws a DOM Exception: INDEX_SIZE_ERR (1)
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# [02:15] <uf0_work> err.. css3 issues
# [02:15] <ExpFist> Is it playing before it has loaded enough and that's messing it up?
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# [02:15] <uf0_work> is there any way for a box-shadow to go OVER an overflow:hidden div?
# [02:15] <ExpFist> And if so, how do I get it to wait for the while file to load
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# [03:26] <dilvie> ExpFist: yeah, you'll get the INDEX_SIZE_ERROR if you attempt to set currentTime on an audio or video element that is not yet ready to play.
# [03:26] <dilvie> I don't think the whole file has to be loaded, though.
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# [08:23] <David_Higgins> H5BP Redux - HTML5 Boilerplate, with a few extra things added: http://cl.ly/Foso
# [08:23] <David_Higgins> Need feedback
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# [12:55] <NoWonder101> hello everyone. I have a very basic question regarding html5 (I am a very very beginner)... I am attempting to access 2 php files ( header.php and footer) in the <body> section of my "index.html" with <?php include 'footer.php'; ?>, but it does not seem to return the content of those 2 files( which are plain html content )
# [12:56] <_shorinji_> not really a html5 question
# [12:56] <NoWonder101> oh, sorry
# [12:56] <_shorinji_> but anyway
# [12:56] <_shorinji_> make sure you have error_reporting=E_ALL in your php.ini
# [12:57] <_shorinji_> and display_errors=1
# [12:58] <NoWonder101> ok, thank you
# [12:58] <_shorinji_> if include fails you only get a warning, so might not show up. you can replace include with require to get a hard error
# [12:58] <_shorinji_> if the file path is wrong
# [12:59] <NoWonder101> the files are in the same folder and the file names are correct... my error might be somewhere else
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# [13:00] <_shorinji_> you can check your apache error log too, for possible errors
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# [13:02] <NoWonder101> aha! I guess I did not know that php is a serverside language :) I was trying to run it locally on my browser (which would work with javascript)
# [13:02] <moo-_-> NoWonder101: http://php.net is your friend :)
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# [13:03] <moo-_-> if you want to develop locally I suggest you steer away from PHP and use some more modern templating solution
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# [13:06] <_shorinji_> php can be simple for serverside prototyping, so I'm not sure it can be completely discarded
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# [13:13] <NoWonder101> my only idea was to include the footer and header in 2 separate files so in case i make any changes to them, it would just affect the content of my whole website., without having to edit every single page. Php seemed to be one of the solutions. Could you advise a better one?
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# [13:19] <moo-_-> NoWonder101: yes
# [13:19] <moo-_-> NoWonder101: are you on Windows?
# [13:19] <NoWonder101> yes
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# [13:24] <moo-_-> NoWonder101: here http://iwantmyname.com/blog/2011/02/list-static-website-generators.html
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# [13:32] <_shorinji_> so, what's better about them? :D
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# [13:35] <NoWonder101> thanks moo-_-. That is a good approach, but as a beginner I would like to build these templates myself, so I would also learn something :) I found the error in my previous question... all i had to do is change the index,html to index.php.... seems like html did not understand the call of php function
# [13:35] <moo-_-> NoWonder101: with plain HTML files you cannot include bits from other files
# [13:36] <moo-_-> NoWonder101: for that the easiest solution is a template engine which will generate bunch of real HTML files out of your templates
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# [13:40] <_shorinji_> it all comes down to what you want to do
# [13:41] <_shorinji_> no idea to get into the religious wars on what tech platform to use
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# [13:43] <NoWonder101> yes, I understand your point moo-_- .... I just want to learn the basisc, before i mess around with generators (which always have been the easiest way)
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# [13:52] <moo-_-> NoWonder101: for that one static index.html is good :)
# [13:52] <moo-_-> so you are correct
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# [14:02] <Agu10> hey
# [14:02] <Agu10> when I reload my page, my background image flashes (gets white for a moment)
# [14:03] <Agu10> how can i make my page NOT reload the image or make it flash?
# [14:04] <Agu10> http://manifestation.com.ar/math/
# [14:04] <_shorinji_> that is your browser's fault, nothing to do with the page :)
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# [14:05] <Agu10> _shorinji_, is it a bug?
# [14:06] <_shorinji_> not sure I understand the problem
# [14:06] <_shorinji_> for me the page loads, then the background gets displayed (since it is a large image that takes longer time to transfer)
# [14:07] <_shorinji_> it doesn't flash for me
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# [14:09] * symb_ is now known as symb
# [14:10] <Agu10> _shorinji_, when you press a button
# [14:10] <Agu10> it will flash
# [14:10] <Agu10> because the page is post back
# [14:10] <Agu10> how can i avoid the flashing of the background?
# [14:10] <Agu10> since it's the same background there's no reason to re-load it
# [14:11] <_shorinji_> you can make every subpage xhr-loaded
# [14:11] <Agu10> ?
# [14:11] <_shorinji_> you know about ajax?
# [14:11] <Agu10> yes
# [14:11] <Agu10> I'm using asp.net
# [14:11] <Agu10> do i have to change all the way i'm coding this?
# [14:11] <Agu10> this posts the whole form when you press any button
# [14:11] <_shorinji_> don't think so
# [14:12] <_shorinji_> or maybe parts of it
# [14:12] <Agu10> what's the easiest way to keep the same background
# [14:12] <_shorinji_> I'm not that .net savvy
# [14:12] <Agu10> without having to use ajax for every button and stuff
# [14:12] <Agu10> ah
# [14:12] <_shorinji_> if the image is loaded normally, with no special headers, it should be cached on the client
# [14:13] <_shorinji_> thus load much quicker
# [14:13] <Agu10> loads quicker but STILL flashes
# [14:14] <_shorinji_> you will always have the browser's render speed as a bottleneck
# [14:14] <_shorinji_> even though the network latency is 0
# [14:15] <_shorinji_> only way to avoid that imo is to send xmlhttprequests (xhr) to only reload parts of the pages you need to reload
# [14:15] <_shorinji_> then you keep the user on your page after it's loaded the first time
# [14:15] <_shorinji_> thus the image is never altered
# [14:16] <Agu10> this sucks
# [14:16] <_shorinji_> it's how the traditional web works
# [14:16] <_shorinji_> web 1.0
# [14:16] <Agu10> i wouldn't mind that it reloads the whole webpage if it wasn't for this background flash
# [14:17] <Agu10> i think chrome should first load the webpage, then render it and NOT flash things that don't change :/
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# [14:19] <_shorinji_> when the browser loads a page it must parse the html (and related resources) to determine how to render the background, and together with the time to display the image, this adds up
# [14:19] <_shorinji_> and becomes noticeable
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# [14:27] <Agu10> _shorinji_, except there's no need to clear the previous image
# [14:27] <Agu10> so chrome is clearing it up because of lazy coding probably
# [14:28] <_shorinji_> it clears the image because it starts to load and visualize the new page
# [14:29] <_shorinji_> the alternative is that you would get no page at all until it was completely loaded :)
# [14:29] <_shorinji_> since people has traditionally used slow connections, browser makers decided to let the pages be rendered progressively
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# [14:37] <Agu10> _shorinji_, and it was a good idea
# [14:37] <Agu10> haha
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# [15:12] <Agu10> hey guys
# [15:12] <Agu10> how can i call a js function when a WHOLE div has been loaded?
# [15:13] <Agu10> when everything it contains is loaded
# [15:13] <Agu10> such as images
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# [15:15] <Jon47> Agu10 I think the "load" event bubbles up fairly reliably
# [15:15] <Jon47> so you need to somehow find a way to enumerate all the contents within the div that *can* load
# [15:15] <Jon47> and then keep a tally of them as they *do* load
# [15:15] <Jon47> and when they all check-in, then you proceed
# [15:16] <Jon47> be aware though - i think that resources that are cached in the browser like images with far future expires headers or etags may not actually fire a load event ( could be wrong about that, but you might want to check it out to be safe )
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# [15:48] <Trisox> whats the diference between <meta http-equiv="X-UA-Compatible" content="IE=EmulateIE7" > and <meta http-equiv="X-UA-Compatible" content="IE=7"> for example?
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# [16:38] <tuxnani> hi
# [16:38] <tuxnani> need some help
# [16:38] <tuxnani> Can we create a 3 d shop like environment with html5?
# [16:38] <tuxnani> is it possible?
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# [16:45] <bendman> well... it's possible with canvas
# [16:46] <bendman> to do it with CSS3 transforms would be pretty ludicrous (though, doing it in canvas is a little weird too)
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# [16:50] <tuxnani> bendman: any existing projects, you've seen?
# [16:51] <tuxnani> Or should i start from scratch
# [16:51] <StoneCypher> tuxnani: dude just go look into it, it's dead simple
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# [16:51] <StoneCypher> irc is not google, and should not be your starting point
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# [18:01] <sphinxxx> paul_irish: where art thou
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# [18:38] <image_1> hello, I am having a problem with the video tag on an iphone, it seems like when I play a video and then pause it, I am unable to run any of the events on the video tabs parent elements. Its like an iframe that takes over the space it takes up. has anyone ever come across this?
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# [18:54] <paul_irish> sphinxxx: dancing on the moon
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# [19:41] <David_Bradbury> Anybody aware of any JS polyfills that will check for things like text-shadow and rgba, and get you rough equivalents in IE8-?
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# [19:44] <Pomax> is there a JS lib for checking CSS for correctness, for use in something jsfiddlish where someone can livetype CSS and the lib will go "oh, hang on, you forgot to close ..." etc.?
# [19:44] <shawn_dones> sorry peeps this is off topic but I just had to share this. I recieved an email from a client and this is what one of her comments was. "If there was to be a line (this would be w/o the arrows of course) have it be the actual | symbol rather than a table line or whatever it is."
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# [19:45] <shawn_dones> wanted a pipe in between nav items instead of a left border
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# [19:45] <shawn_dones> sorry
# [19:45] <shawn_dones> i thought it was funny
# [19:46] <Pomax> "I'm sorry, this will required $500 in webfont licenses"
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# [19:46] <Pomax> -d
# [19:46] <Jon47> shawn_dones: ha, that is a bizarre requirement
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# [19:47] <shawn_dones> Jon47: I mean what difference did it really make from user standpoint?
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# [19:48] <Jon47> absolutely none!
# [19:48] <shawn_dones> Jon47: if she said that to my face i think i would have to stand up and deliver my pimp hand upon her face
# [19:48] <David_Bradbury> Pomax: I've seen Less.js do something similar to that - That's about all I can offer though
# [19:48] <Jon47> probably looks slightly worse, if anything, and adds a useless character to the markup that could be in the styles
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# [19:48] <Pomax> you could just make the list item bullet a pipe
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# [19:49] <Pomax> and apply to li+li only. but yeah, that's a pretty weird requireent
# [19:49] <Pomax> with more m's
# [19:49] <Jon47> or :before element, if it' s not an li
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# [19:49] <Pomax> unless they... I don't know, do they need to copy-paste their nav a lot?
# [19:49] <Pomax> I have no idea why you would, but that's the one usecase where having a pipe character makes sense
# [19:50] <sphinxxx> paul_irish: i noticed weird things with my javascript when I use the build script
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# [19:50] <sphinxxx> am I supposed to put absolutely all plugins in the 'plugins.js' file?
# [19:50] <David_Bradbury> Or just use CSS Content
# [19:50] <David_Bradbury> for the pipes
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# [19:51] <shawn_dones> Pomax: im curious why would anyone wanna copy and paste a nav?
# [19:51] <Pomax> users do weird things.
# [19:51] <shawn_dones> tru
# [19:51] <Pomax> but that's the only one I can think of =)
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# [19:51] <shawn_dones> sphinxxx: Depends
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# [19:52] <shawn_dones> sphinxxx: if it is a plugin that is only used on one page i would just pull in the plugin just on that page
# [19:53] <shawn_dones> sphinxxx: http://html5boilerplate.com/html5boilerplate-site/built/en_US/docs/js/
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# [19:55] <sphinxxx> shawn_dones: i read the docs about 'changing the order of javascript' using the build script, but the lines of code it referred to were not in my config file.. the docs must be outdated
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# [19:56] <shawn_dones> sphinxx:which vesion of the build script/ h5bp are you using?
# [19:57] <sphinxxx> shawn_dones: i was told, that there are no versions, but whatever it is, i have the latest (downloaded yesterday)
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# [19:58] <Vegitto> Hello. I have a table with tds containing numbers in one row and tds containing textareas in the second row like this: http://motionsroom.com/example.html I want to find an easy way for the user to click, draw a circle or whatever around two numbers and then they would be put in a single td instead of two (so we would have: 48 + 12 as the new value) and then the two textareas below would would also merge. Is there any way I could do
# [19:59] <shawn_dones> sphinxxx: whats happening to your code when you run the build script?
# [20:00] <sphinxxx> shawn_dones: i think what's happening is that when it minifys/concats the javascript, its not preserving the order correctly
# [20:00] <sphinxxx> its strange, some bindings I've made in script.js aren't working
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# [20:01] <shawn_dones> sphinxxx: no idea...
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# [20:02] <shawn_dones> sphinxxx: scripts concatenated and minified via ant build script
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# [20:03] <shawn_dones> that line is above the plugins.js call
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# [20:05] <shawn_dones> I assume if you dont see these two lines  and  then you have the uncommented version of h5bp
# [20:05] <sphinxxx> what file are ou referring to?
# [20:05] <shawn_dones> index
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# [20:08] <sphinxxx> shawn_dones: this is what mine looks like: http://imgur.com/YYOZd
# [20:09] <shawn_dones> sphinxxx: so according to the docs all of your bootstrap files will get concat
# [20:09] <sphinxxx> right, and that part is working
# [20:10] <sphinxxx> but theres code in my scripts.js thats not running after i do the build script
# [20:10] <shawn_dones> hav eyou tried taking the bootstrap files out of the concat
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# [20:11] <shawn_dones> and add them into the plugins
# [20:11] <sphinxxx> would it be a bad idea to just put all the bootstrap code into plugins.js?
# [20:11] <sphinxxx> i just left it like that because the example i downloaded from initializer had it like that
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# [20:12] <shawn_dones> sphinxxx: no not if thats how it was initialized
# [20:13] <shawn_dones> i mean ultimately its up to you
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# [20:13] <shawn_dones> I was just trying to help you pick it apart to find out exactly where your problem is coming from
# [20:13] <sphinxxx> its just so strange, i get no errors in console
# [20:13] <shawn_dones> sphinxxx: link?
# [20:14] <sphinxxx> but some of my code just doesn't run, like I have code that binds with ".on" to the clicking of a button, and that codes not running
# [20:14] <sphinxxx> shawn_dones: unfortunately i can't show the site b/c it's not released yet :(
# [20:14] <shawn_dones> sphinxxx: i see
# [20:15] <shawn_dones> sphinxxx: im sure youve tested it before running build script?
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# [20:15] <sphinxxx> yea, everything works perfectly before build script
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# [20:16] <shawn_dones> sphinxxx: run the build script. move bootstrap calls outside of concat just to see if it still does it.
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# [20:18] <shawn_dones> sphinxxx: this way if it still breaks your issue is likely in your script.js code. I would look for funky syntax or doubled up comments
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# [20:53] <David_Bradbury> Any opinions on using body as your container tag instead of a div?
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# [20:54] <David_Bradbury> The only downside I see is not being able to include new tags after or before your container
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# [21:07] <Jon47> David_Bradbury: depends on your design, but if you can swing it, reducing the markup is always good
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# [21:20] <deadowl> If I am applying microdata to a page, can some of it be redundant?
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# [21:23] <sirffreddirocco> hey guys, navigating trough a site pages, the url in the address bar doesn't change
# [21:24] <deadowl> sirffreddirocco, was that supposed to be a question?
# [21:24] <sirffreddirocco> right
# [21:25] <sirffreddirocco> see you
# [21:25] <sirffreddirocco> ;)
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# [21:26] <deadowl> Yea, when the address bar doesn't change, it usually means the new page content is getting pulled in dynamically using AJAX, frames, or something similar.
# [21:26] <cgcardona> high five friday! o/
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# [21:40] <deadowl> So if I have information on a page where some of the information is redundant, and I'm marking up the page with microdata, should the microdata also be redundant?
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# [21:46] <deadowl> I can't find the answer for the life of me.
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# [21:50] <tw2113> 42
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# [22:05] <Pomax> http://www.masswerk.at/googleBBS/ is shockingly pleasant... the fact that all it does is find search results and absolutely nothing else actually makes it better than plain google.com =x
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# [22:12] <David_Bradbury> I hate IE. Spend an hour trying to debug an issue in IE8 only to find out it wasn't properly refreshing the cache
# [22:14] <edwardbc> *clap* *clap*, gotta hate IE
# [22:14] <Pomax> welcome to Chrome.
# [22:14] <Pomax> oh you said IE. Welcome to Chrome, as well.
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# [22:22] <edwardbc> i get that on chrome sometimes, but getting used to ctrl+f5 for refresh just did the job
# [22:25] <sphinxxx> just use incognito mode
# [22:25] <sphinxxx> close it and open to clear everything (cookies/cache)
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# [22:31] <shoky> so.. html5rocks.com is ridiculously slow and heavy on chrome
# [22:31] <shoky> what gives :\
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# [22:31] <AndChat-> hn
# [22:31] <shoky> any action i try to do (like just scroll the page) takes forever and i see the tab's memory spiking to 750mb
# [22:31] <shoky> fine in IE9 though
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# [22:33] <Pomax> 'hn' being hacker news. it's getting a temporary burst of over 9000 hits per planck time unit.
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# [22:34] <tertl4> is that good?
# [22:34] <Pomax> hn is usually a good thing.
# [22:34] <Pomax> unless the server can't deal with it. then it's really bad =)
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# [22:35] <Pomax> news.ycombinator.com - if you're not reading it, you probably want to consider doing so.
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# [22:43] <tertl4> allI see is a list of topics?
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# [22:48] <Pomax> the idea of HN is that it links to "interesting aricles"
# [22:49] <Pomax> so the topic links are not topics. they're links to the real article, and the HN-specific discussion can be found under the comments link for each article
# [22:49] <Pomax> *articles
# [22:50] <Pomax> new articles percolate up, older articles fall off the list, so if you check it once a day you generally get some nice "oh cool" articles to read
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# [22:55] <tertl4> oh cool
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# [23:38] <David_Bradbury> I'm going to guess that throwing a <noscript><style>blah</style></noscript> at the end of a page in case the user doesn't have JS enabled is a bad idea
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# [23:39] <David_Bradbury> I basically want to hide the page (html {visibility: hidden;}) until I know whether they have JS or not
# [23:40] <David_Bradbury> If they don't, that's the only way I can think of to display the page again
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# Session Close: Sat Apr 14 00:00:01 2012

The end :)