/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2012-04-16 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Apr 16 00:00:01 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
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  5. # [00:03] <deasy> hi
  6. # [00:04] <deasy> someone have a sample of a vertical menu in html5 animated without use of JS ?
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  18. # [00:30] <Pomax> shoky: yes it is
  19. # [00:30] <shoky> ho konbanwa
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  24. # [00:34] <Pomax> makoto ni.
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  128. # [04:42] <zocky> i wrote a method-chaining library for the file system api, if anyone's interested: https://github.com/zocky/cdjs
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  133. # [05:01] <hlb> brew install ffmpeg
  134. # [05:01] <hlb> oops, sorry.
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  145. # [05:27] <PaulGrins> Hello
  146. # [05:28] <PaulGrins> I am wondering if you have a great suggestion for a really good HTML 4.0 tutorial
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  148. # [05:28] <PaulGrins> to give a really thorough understanding of the basics before going to HTML5
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  156. # [05:33] <tw2113> 3/4s of html5 is html4 valid stuff
  157. # [05:33] <tw2113> majority of the same tags are still valid
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  252. # [09:04] <grantg> miketaylr: Sorry about reverting your pull req
  253. # [09:04] <grantg> It's just that Opera 11.6X has had that bug for too long
  254. # [09:05] <grantg> still there apparently at least for os x
  255. # [09:05] <grantg> Not to mention Opera hangs or locks up with it
  256. # [09:06] <grantg> I even included a pre-flight after detecting opera so if opera passes the math test it won't workaround opera
  257. # [09:06] <grantg> But Opera 11.62 fails the simple bitwise math test I made
  258. # [09:07] <grantg> Opera 12 passes it, but Opera 12 on my computer screws up on gfx, due to faulty hw acceleration... lol
  259. # [09:10] <grantg> probably should make a bunch of tests for typed arrays
  260. # [09:10] <grantg> I remember the V8 engine had some weird case too
  261. # [09:11] <grantg> involves doing math on one type and saving to a different, with specific bitwise shit in-between.
  262. # [09:11] * Joins: skylamer` (cgskylamer@78.90.213.55)
  263. # [09:11] <grantg> Anyone know if there already is a full suite of unit tests for typed array math conformance?
  264. # [09:12] * Joins: delphianQ (4a64d0ea@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.100.208.234)
  265. # [09:12] <tw2113> you're good at IRC paragraphs grantg :P
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  267. # [09:12] <grantg> lol
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  271. # [09:14] <grantg> tw2113: TL;DR Opera is doing bad math. :P
  272. # [09:15] <tw2113> it's probably on metric, it's a Norwegian company
  273. # [09:15] <grantg> heh
  274. # [09:15] <grantg> If that involves incorrectly implementing uint8 and leaking the int32 the values are really saved as, then yes. :P
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  276. # [09:16] <grantg> Looks like Opera forgot to cast the reads
  277. # [09:16] <grantg> for right shift and save back
  278. # [09:17] * schnoomac is now known as schnoodles
  279. # [09:17] <grantg> For the test that fails, I set a uint8 slot to -1
  280. # [09:17] <grantg> which really should be 0xFF
  281. # [09:18] <grantg> Then I right shift by 0 with sign
  282. # [09:18] <grantg> I test to see if the slot equals 0xFF
  283. # [09:18] <grantg> Opera fails and returns -1
  284. # [09:18] <grantg> IT'S A GODDAMN UNSIGNED INT 8
  285. # [09:18] <grantg> NOT SIGNED... GAAAA
  286. # [09:19] <grantg> Only would happen if opera is saving as a signed int and doesn't convert
  287. # [09:19] <grantg> -1 comes out to all bits set
  288. # [09:19] <tw2113> if only Opera had the market share to really worry about that much, unless necessary
  289. # [09:19] <grantg> uint8 should only take the lowest 8 bits
  290. # [09:19] <grantg> so 0xFF
  291. # [09:19] <delphianQ> I is so happy. Just got a bit of html5 working on a google sites page.
  292. # [09:20] <tw2113> the doctype delphianQ ?
  293. # [09:20] <grantg> tw2113: Well, they might have issues with some webgl demos
  294. # [09:20] <tw2113> ah
  295. # [09:20] <grantg> I bet someone is going crazy debugging the hell outta their demo
  296. # [09:20] <delphianQ> the site page is including a gadget, which asks for a google document key, which loads the document and executes it as javascript, which is what is running and detecting (at least file api) html5 support.
  297. # [09:21] <grantg> And they'd figure opera can do maths, which it can't because it seems opera fails to JIT its bytecode correctly for specific ops.
  298. # [09:22] <grantg> :/
  299. # [09:22] <grantg> It is predictable though
  300. # [09:22] <grantg> you'll have to bitwise the value you're going to read back
  301. # [09:22] <grantg> to workaround it
  302. # [09:22] <grantg> *bitwise and the value
  303. # [09:23] <grantg> Not going to do that though, as that lowers perf
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  305. # [09:24] <grantg> function () {
  306. # [09:24] <grantg> var testTypedArray = new Uint8Array(1);
  307. # [09:24] <grantg> testTypedArray[0] = -1;
  308. # [09:24] <grantg> testTypedArray[0] >>= 0;
  309. # [09:24] <grantg> if (testTypedArray[0] != 0xFF) {
  310. # [09:24] <grantg> //Opera 11.6X fails here....
  311. # [09:24] <grantg> return true;
  312. # [09:24] <grantg> }
  313. # [09:25] <grantg> else {
  314. # [09:25] <grantg> return false;
  315. # [09:25] <grantg> }
  316. # [09:25] <grantg> }
  317. # [09:25] <grantg> yeah
  318. # [09:25] <grantg> "testTypedArray[0] >>= 0;" is necessary to trip opera
  319. # [09:26] <grantg> it's right shift with sign
  320. # [09:26] <grantg> opera should shift by zero, then save back
  321. # [09:26] <grantg> but save back as a uint8
  322. # [09:26] <grantg> opera makes the value an int32
  323. # [09:26] <grantg> and saves it as -1
  324. # [09:26] <grantg> that op should do absolutely nothing
  325. # [09:27] <grantg> but it trips opera 11.62
  326. # [09:28] <grantg> It should be (0xFF >> 0) outputs zero, but opera seems to store the original -1 as an int32 as 0xFFFFFFFF
  327. # [09:29] <grantg> and opera drops the uint8 guard when doing this extra op
  328. # [09:29] <grantg> "forgets" it's uint8
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  330. # [09:30] <grantg> lulz
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  332. # [09:30] <grantg> It should be (0xFF >> 0) outputs 0xFF
  333. # [09:30] <grantg> sorry for the typo. :P
  334. # [09:30] <grantg> I swear I need to turn off auto-complete. :I
  335. # [09:31] <grantg> And 0xFF as in 0xFF, not -0xFF
  336. # [09:32] <grantg> As the JITs should be converting between the typed array's format and js's number type
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  339. # [09:33] <grantg> float64/int32/uint32 depending on operation context, and the int32/uint32 stored back to float64 anyhow with the number type
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  439. # [12:34] <robot-beethoven> if you have inline <svg> in a <!DOCTYPE html>, do you need the / to close content-less element tags?
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  443. # [12:39] <xec> robot-beethoven: afaik the /> self closing thing is xhtml only
  444. # [12:40] <xec> although it doesn't hurt
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  448. # [12:55] <robot-beethoven> hmm, a quick test seems to indicate that the / is required on descendents of <svg>
  449. # [12:55] <robot-beethoven> on firefox, at least
  450. # [12:57] <xec> actually, svg is xml
  451. # [12:58] <xec> so you would need to close tags i guess
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  454. # [13:02] <Brunoz> i used to forgot to close tags but then i found coffeekup, problem solvd
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  469. # [13:28] <levnikolaevic> hi guys, trying to enter to phpmyadmin panel, offered by aruba at mysql.aruba.it, i get "error sanitize"
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  471. # [13:29] <levnikolaevic> I know this is not the right place to ask, but i would know if someone else got this error
  472. # [13:29] <levnikolaevic> and what that means
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  501. # [14:31] <kelonye> any "http://api.jquery.com/browser/" like html ref
  502. # [14:33] <Know1edge> kelonye: like this? http://jqapi.com/
  503. # [14:34] <Know1edge> http://dochub.io/#css/
  504. # [14:34] <Know1edge> this is css. html, js, jquery, php
  505. # [14:34] <kelonye> hmmn, well not really ... smth like http://docs.sproutcore.com/ ,
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  507. # [14:37] <kelonye> Know1edge: http://dochub.io/ ... using bootstrap :) ... thx
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  509. # [14:39] <Know1edge> everyone and their mom is using bootstrap
  510. # [14:39] <Know1edge> lol
  511. # [14:39] <kelonye> lol,
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  597. # [16:41] <scriptdevil> Is it OK to use direct utf-8 symbols over the html symbol codes? (I set content-type to utf-8 character set)
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  599. # [16:41] <scriptdevil> *have set
  600. # [16:44] <dr0id> YES
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  606. # [16:49] <Jon47> scriptdevil: i think the answer is yes, if your content-type is set appropriately. After all, people who write with different alphabets and use different keyboards can't reasonably be expected to write out each html entity in their native script when they can just type it using their keyboards, right?
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  723. # [19:32] <sedovsek> o/
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  736. # [19:56] <sedovsek> I am somehow curious about how many websites would "break" if HTML parsers wouldn't fix the author's mistakes?
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  738. # [19:57] <sedovsek> For instance: <p><div>Hello</p></div> is invalid, but browser doesn't return an error.
  739. # [19:58] <shoky> 98%?
  740. # [19:58] <sedovsek> shoky, that's shocky. :P
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  742. # [19:59] <shoky> ;)
  743. # [19:59] <Jon47> sedovsek: there's invalid and there's invalid, I know authors who intentionally don't close their tags because it's more terse..
  744. # [19:59] <sedovsek> Are there any *stats*?
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  746. # [20:01] <sedovsek> The following question would somehow be ... would it be faster if the parser wouldn't be *forgiving*?
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  752. # [20:15] <JonathanNeal> https://twitter.com/#!/jon_neal/status/191951048351547392 :)
  753. # [20:15] <socialhapy> ā˜… Tweet from jon_neal: Songs about coding, IE6, Modernizr, jQuery, Normalize, Papa Crockford, unicorns, and more. http://t.co/H3rFjb5e ā˜… http://bit.ly/ISRbNZ
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  830. # [21:49] <miketaylr> bot-t: tell grantg sorry was asleep and missed your comments! noted in original ticket however. hopefully fixed sooooooooooooooon.
  831. # [21:49] <bot-t> miketaylr, Okay.
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  885. # [22:42] <RobSpectre> Are semantic tags not stylable?
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  890. # [22:50] <Pomax> they should be, they're just elements?
  891. # [22:50] <Pomax> slap on a display:block; and a background-color: green; and they should pop into existence like any other.
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  893. # [22:50] <RobSpectre> Pomax: Ah - display block.
  894. # [22:50] <RobSpectre> Pomax: of course.
  895. # [22:51] <Pomax> many of them are display:none by default, so they don't "exist" in the DOM
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  897. # [22:54] <sphinxxx> any reason a div position:absolute (bottom:0) is not showing up in IE
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  900. # [23:01] <Pomax> I'm going to pretend that's just weird syntax not reflective of the CSS and you actually have { position: absolute; bottom: 0; }
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  909. # [23:06] <Jon47> sphinxxx (if Pomax's assumption was correct) what version of IE? versions of IE <= 8 have known issues with z-indexing..
  910. # [23:06] <sphinxxx> Pomax: yes, :o
  911. # [23:06] <sphinxxx> IE 7 and 8 , haven't seen it on 9 yet
  912. # [23:06] <Pomax> IE9 seems to render it just fine at least
  913. # [23:06] <Pomax> (not tried IE8 or 7 becuase I don't have them here)
  914. # [23:07] <sphinxxx> try opensky.com
  915. # [23:07] <sphinxxx> if you're on IE9 can you let me know if bottom bar shows up?
  916. # [23:08] <Jon47> sphinxxx: looks ok in IE10, bad in IE8
  917. # [23:09] <sphinxxx> i can't stand IE, i can't even add styles in the developer tools to test what works
  918. # [23:09] <Jon47> yeah the dev tools need some work, they get a lot better in each version though...
  919. # [23:10] <Jon47> the script debugging is pretty nice now, got breakpoints and such
  920. # [23:10] <Jon47> the css editor is still shite though, the rules are organized in a way that makes it really hard to find stuff
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  924. # [23:12] <sphinxxx> so does z-index fix it from being hidden in IE7/8 ?
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  929. # [23:17] <Jon47> sphinxxx: i notice tht you actually used position:fixed, not absolute as you said
  930. # [23:18] <Jon47> usually the z-indexing issue just causes static DOM nodes farther down in the DOM to layer on top of the absolutely positioned one that you have your z-index on, but i don't think that's what's causing your problem right here
  931. # [23:19] <sphinxxx> hm, I'm inspecting it in chrome its absolute, not fixed
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  933. # [23:19] <Jon47> the footer?
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The end :)