/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2012-04-30 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Apr 30 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
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  18. # [00:37] <grantg> Oh god, you know the emu scene is down when this is true - https://github.com/grantgalitz/GameBoy-Online#cpu-instruction-set-accuracy-test-results-blarggs-cpu_instrsgb-test-rom
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  61. # [02:05] <uf0_work> Are there any live mobile boilerplate responsive sites?
  62. # [02:05] <uf0_work> want to see some examples
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  78. # [03:09] <austincheney> uf0_work what do you have in mind?
  79. # [03:10] <austincheney> I believe Travelocity has an IPhone specific homepage
  80. # [03:14] <smplstk> uf0_work: http://mediaqueri.es/
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  140. # [05:51] <tw2113> damn it, meant that for in here paul_irish
  141. # [05:51] <tw2113> not jquery again
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  331. # [12:16] <vhsjon> hi guys, a quick question. Im reading about making a HTML5 web app run offline by using Application Cache and the cache manifest file. At the w3schools site it says that every page that has the manifest attribute specified will be cached when the user visits it. Does that mean that the first time the user visits the site it has to be online? Ie. when making a mobile device HTML5 app, can you store every image ++ files locally so that you never h
  332. # [12:16] <vhsjon> to be online, not even once to use it?
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  334. # [12:17] <shwetank> depends on what your app is, but yeah, technically, you can make an app which just visits the site once, and then can run offline forever (untill the user deletes the appcache)
  335. # [12:17] <aQustic> how would you distribute it if the user is not supposed to go online even once to access it?
  336. # [12:18] <shwetank> you have to go online at least once ...
  337. # [12:19] <shwetank> so that the browser downloads the files in appacache as specified by the manifest file
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  339. # [12:20] <shwetank> i wrote a detailed article on it here if anyone is interested http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/offline-applications-html5-appcache/
  340. # [12:21] <skylamer`> is there any client side application which has all the 'server' features implemented on the client, with localStorage sessions and such? :)
  341. # [12:21] <shwetank> im not sure i understand...
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  343. # [12:23] <vhsjon> thanks guys
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  345. # [12:24] <skylamer`> a fully featured application which not using server, but has 'login' and ushh things, also can work with the dbs
  346. # [12:24] <shwetank> well, client side dbs are a pain at the moment ....
  347. # [12:25] <skylamer`> i mean client side for the 'sessionss management' and for the information and others server DB with the REST Apis
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  349. # [12:27] <shwetank> yeah, i guess you can use sessionStorage for that, can't think of any examples of big sites in the wild doing that yet ... but i havent investiagted in detail
  350. # [12:28] <skylamer`> i didnt mean 'big'
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  352. # [12:28] <skylamer`> just some thing, even some little :)
  353. # [12:28] <skylamer`> ok, thanks!
  354. # [12:30] <aQustic> in a multi-column setup, is it possible to have it only split into columns only at certain tags, eg every img tag?
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  367. # [12:54] <vhsjon> another question, since it seems like you guys have a pretty good understanding of this :) When you implement an iphone/android app natively, multithreading is done in a fairly "easy" way, and with good possibilities for debugging. Is multithreading possible when making HTML5 apps? Async calls? If so, how do you debug this if (or when) something goes wrong?
  368. # [12:55] <shwetank> take a look at web workers ... not exactly multi-threading, but pretty much
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  371. # [12:56] <vhsjon> shwetank: thanks! this approach, can you use it offline if the files/tasks you interact with are available locally?
  372. # [12:56] <shwetank> yeah
  373. # [12:57] <vhsjon> nice
  374. # [12:57] <shwetank> as long as the js worker file is part of the appcache too
  375. # [12:57] <vhsjon> yeah
  376. # [12:57] <vhsjon> so if it is, you wouldve have to
  377. # [12:58] <vhsjon> download it through the manifest file first
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  379. # [13:01] <shwetank> if you want it to run offline, yeah (just name it in the manifest file just like all the other files you want to cache, no big deal)
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  409. # [13:48] <niloy_> how can I only show images in the file selection dialog box opened by <input type=file>?
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  413. # [13:57] * johnkpaul-afk is now known as johnkpaul
  414. # [13:58] <kzs> can i draw using vectors with canvas ?
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  416. # [14:01] <noocx> hi
  417. # [14:02] <divya> kzs: no
  418. # [14:02] <divya> kzs: you can imitate it with libs like paper
  419. # [14:02] <divya> ?g paper canvas javascript library
  420. # [14:02] <bot-t> divya, Paper.js — Using JavaScript Directly - http://paperjs.org/tutorials/getting-started/using-javascript-directly/
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  422. # [14:02] <kzs> thanks , do you know if it would work on mobile apps ?
  423. # [14:03] <kzs> i guess i can test their examples. thanks for answer
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  426. # [14:12] <Pomax> it also depends a little on what you mean with "vectors".
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  428. # [14:13] <Pomax> paper.js, rafael.js and processing.js can all draw the kind of graphics associated with "vector graphics", but do it in different ways, with different datastructures and thus different interaction
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  441. # [14:37] <vikash> Is it necessary to have <menu> inside <section>? And what should be the location of <menu> in a web page?
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  699. # [20:35] <Renacor> anybody here familiar with easyXDM?
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  701. # [20:37] <whatthepoop> sooo at work we're looking to phase out our proprietary Flash player, and we're considering wrapping our existing H264 videos in a Flash container to serve within our "HTML5" player for those browsers that do not support H264 natively (really, just Chrome and FF), instead of encoding to the less-capable WebM codec for those browsers. someone please tell me why this is a terrible idea.
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  708. # [20:43] <miketaylr> whatthepoop: is webm noticeably less-capable? seems like the cat videos i watch on youtube get the job done.
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  717. # [20:56] <whatthepoop> miketaylr: I haven't seen the quality difference myself, but the encoders who produce the video here say it's pretty clear.. I'm more concerned about the lack of hardware decoding for WebM, which isn't the case for H264 on nearly all devices
  718. # [20:57] <miketaylr> yeah
  719. # [20:57] <whatthepoop> miketaylr: and what that means is basically performance will begin to suffer with anything above about 768x432, which is a shame
  720. # [20:57] <miketaylr> heh, sounds like flash already :P
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  722. # [20:58] <whatthepoop> miketaylr: ha, exactly! except our current Flash player (which is still our primary player, falling back to the HTML5 version *only* for iOS devices) uses H264 encoding, which is hardware decoded.
  723. # [20:59] <miketaylr> whatthepoop: my own preference is for open formats, but if you're serving the video w/ a flash fallback and letting the browser decide if it can play the video, it's not the end of the world
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  725. # [20:59] <miketaylr> opera, for example, uses hw decoding on mobile and tv so it can handle the h264... obviously for desktop would get the fallback
  726. # [21:00] <miketaylr> formats are fun!
  727. # [21:00] <whatthepoop> miketaylr: the problem is we're hoping to phase out our Flash player entirely and replace it with the HTML5 version, as we're adding some pretty big features that we don't want to do with the work on twice (once in HTML5, once in Flash).. just not sure if we're being a bit too idealistic and aggressive, though
  728. # [21:00] <whatthepoop> hah
  729. # [21:00] <miketaylr> well, firefox announced that they're going to use system codecs in desktop
  730. # [21:01] <miketaylr> but that means ff users on xp are in trouble
  731. # [21:01] <whatthepoop> miketaylr: I don't know, I don't see any huge problem with wrapping H264 in a Flash video container and serving that inside the "HTML5" player, just for FF/Chrome.. feels a bit hacky and is more work than just going with WebM, but it should be technically feasible I guess
  732. # [21:01] <whatthepoop> ahh
  733. # [21:01] <whatthepoop> is that because the H264 codec isn't only natively supported with Win 7 and on, but not XP?
  734. # [21:02] <whatthepoop> err, butchered that. I mean: isn't support in XP, is on Win 7 + ?
  735. # [21:02] <miketaylr> yeah, vista too
  736. # [21:02] <whatthepoop> that's right, forgot about vista.. hmm thanks, something to think about...
  737. # [21:03] <miketaylr> as long as you do something like "a complete, live example" here: http://diveintohtml5.info/video.html, it'll all work out
  738. # [21:03] <miketaylr> serve the h264, webm if you're feeling generous, have the object fallback
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  743. # [21:05] <whatthepoop> miketaylr: what we're talking about is removing the object/Flash player entirely, and serving everything through the HTML5 player.. but when it's in a non-H264-capable browser/device, the video hole in the HTML5 player would be replaced with a .swf what loads the H264....but it'd still all be wrapped into the same HTML5 player :)
  744. # [21:06] <whatthepoop> I think I'm getting sick just thinking about that hah
  745. # [21:06] <miketaylr> hehe
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The end :)