/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2012-05-08 / end

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1. # Session Start: Tue May 08 00:00:00 2012
2. # Session Ident: #html5
3. # [00:02] <austincheney> nope, i dont do jquery
4. # [00:02] <austincheney> I write in native js
5. # [00:03] <austincheney> i find frameworks to be like opium.... an addictive drug that you numbs you from what's actually happening
6. # [00:03] <austincheney> jquery users also remind me of heroine junkies
7. # [00:03] <danielfilho> deep.
8. # [00:03] <danielfilho> :)
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12. # [00:06] <Moo^> heroku junkies in contemporary world? :P
13. # [00:06] <austincheney> yes
14. # [00:07] <austincheney> try telling a jquery user that jquery is slow
15. # [00:07] <austincheney> its like you just murdered their god
16. # [00:08] <austincheney> if you are in a channel full of jquery lovers then you will probably be perm banned for merely expressing your disapproval with the framework approach
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18. # [00:09] <Moo^> austincheney: a lot of jquery functionality can be done natively nowadays, which is good
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30. # [00:20] <mokush> ah, web hipsters
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79. # [01:21] <danielfilho> what's the way you guys check if an element exists on DOM?
80. # [01:21] <austincheney> danielfilho give me some example html to look at and I will give you several answers
81. # [01:22] <danielfilho> no specific html
82. # [01:22] <austincheney> DOM is an abstract representation of a tree graph, so the answer depends upon relationships of nodes in the tree
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84. # [01:22] <austincheney> if you have an id then the fastest way to access a node is referencing the id
85. # [01:22] <danielfilho> I know. Just curiosity on how ppl check it, like, value > 0, just an if(element), or what
86. # [01:23] <austincheney> what is your method of access? JavaScript?
87. # [01:23] <danielfilho> yup
88. # [01:23] <austincheney> var a = document.getElementById("uniqueID");
89. # [01:23] <danielfilho> then, if(a)?
90. # [01:23] <austincheney> the standard response if that id does not exist is for a to be assigned null
91. # [01:24] <austincheney> you can test for it if (a === null || typeof a !== object)
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93. # [01:24] <austincheney> the null part is really all you need, but checking the type is an extra failsafe because JS is stupid and reports null as type object
94. # [01:24] <danielfilho> yup. I've seem people doing it on many ways. will make a research on that… thanks for your help austincheney :)
95. # [01:25] <austincheney> that is the negative test
96. # [01:25] <uf0_work> hey guys any ideas where I can find a jquery carousel for iphone/ipad (mobile)
97. # [01:25] <uf0_work> or an image slider
98. # [01:25] <uf0_work> well that works for both desktop and mobile
99. # [01:25] <austincheney> the positive test is if (a !== null && typeof a === "object")
100. # [01:25] <austincheney> uf0_work nope, i do not use jquery
101. # [01:26] <danielfilho> uf0_work, you can use the exactly same you do
102. # [01:26] <danielfilho> just hack it a little bit to support touch events ;)
103. # [01:26] <danielfilho> ontouchstart, ontouchend
104. # [01:26] <uf0_work> hmm
105. # [01:27] <uf0_work> ok danielfilho.. gonna try
106. # [01:27] <uf0_work> if I add those events, what effect will happen though
107. # [01:27] <uf0_work> I obviously want slide effect
108. # [01:27] <danielfilho> ?g jquery image slider compatible mobile
109. # [01:27] <bot-t> danielfilho, PhotoSwipe - http://www.photoswipe.com/
110. # [01:28] <danielfilho> ops
111. # [01:28] <danielfilho> that's it uf0_work :)
112. # [01:28] <danielfilho> check if that fits :)
113. # [01:28] <uf0_work> photoswipe?
114. # [01:29] <uf0_work> ok cool thanks!
115. # [01:29] <danielfilho> thank google on that :)
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117. # [01:29] <uf0_work> lol ok
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119. # [01:31] <danielfilho> gotta go dudes.
120. # [01:31] <uf0_work> danielfilho thanks for help dudeee
121. # [01:32] <uf0_work> it's perfect!
122. # [01:32] <danielfilho> you're welcome. i'm glad to help :)
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182. # [03:01] <Ozin> Thinking of moving a site to a boostrap layout. Can someone tell me if they prefer this new direction compared to the old? New: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15298260/Examine%20Ephedrine/ephedrine.html Old: http://examine.com/supplements/Ephedrine/
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279. # [05:33] <humph_> has anyone built an async message queue with postMessage to the same window?
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281. # [05:33] <grantg> You mean exploit postMessage to spam the window to create instant callbacks?
282. # [05:34] <grantg> thereby bypassing the setInterval/setTimeout throttles?
283. # [05:34] <humph_> no, not doing zero-length timeouts, which I've seen lots of times
284. # [05:34] <humph_> and yes, is spammy
285. # [05:35] <grantg> so, what exactly do you want?
286. # [05:35] <humph_> I have a js event system, but it's synch
287. # [05:35] <grantg> purpose?
288. # [05:35] <humph_> I'm weighing options for making it async
289. # [05:36] <humph_> postMessage to self was one way I considered doing it
290. # [05:36] <grantg> eh
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292. # [05:36] <humph_> I don't want real dom events as such
293. # [05:36] <grantg> work with the js limitations I say
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295. # [05:36] <humph_> meaning?
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297. # [05:37] <grantg> abstracting the single threadedness of each window instance to simulate a pseudo-multi-threaded feeling seems to add load
298. # [05:37] <humph_> yeah, it has draw backs
299. # [05:37] <humph_> what's a better way?
300. # [05:37] <grantg> I'd just go with adapting to a single threaded design
301. # [05:38] <grantg> I personally use setInterval to drive my logic, as I do stuff that requires timed logic
302. # [05:39] <grantg> I then go back in and drive out slave timers with the master
303. # [05:39] <grantg> timer
304. # [05:40] <grantg> so you can drive lower res timers with a high res one
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306. # [05:40] <grantg> I also do dummy audio with my audio lib to adjust clocking of each setInterval instance
307. # [05:41] <grantg> By checking to see how many silence samples are left in buffer
308. # [05:41] <grantg> Seeing how a lot of browsers are offenders of inaccurate setInterval
309. # [05:44] <grantg> humph_: I'd also recommend to NOT use request
310. # [05:44] <grantg> requestAnimationFrame
311. # [05:44] <humph_> yeah
312. # [05:44] <grantg> too many browsers cheat it
313. # [05:44] <grantg> Some cap at 30 fps
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315. # [05:44] <grantg> others do nothing
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318. # [05:45] <grantg> when in doubt, don't block the thread with busy waits or 0 wait callbacks
319. # [05:46] <grantg> setInterval is probably the best if you need a stable timer
320. # [05:46] <grantg> so other apps on said computer can do stuff in between your code
321. # [05:46] <grantg> if you busy wait, it will cause other apps on your OS to perform worse
322. # [05:46] <grantg> affecting you in return
323. # [05:47] <grantg> best not to be greedy and suck up CPU
324. # [05:47] <grantg> I see this too much
325. # [05:47] <grantg> with greedy code that HAS to have nanosecond accuracy
326. # [05:47] <grantg> if you need that, you're doing it wrong
327. # [05:48] <grantg> listen onto the date object if need be
328. # [05:48] <grantg> to adjust with a personal real time clock adjustment
329. # [05:49] <grantg> I do believe though that silly setInterval timer clamping to 1 or 2 seconds is stupid
330. # [05:50] <grantg> there needs to be an option in js to disable that
331. # [05:50] <grantg> where the clamping is there by default, but the js can manually override it
332. # [05:50] <grantg> so only new code can avoid it
333. # [05:51] <grantg> the entire event queue needs to be throttled
334. # [05:51] <grantg> if the browser is going to clamp timers
335. # [05:51] <grantg> otherwise there's the postMessage exploit
336. # [05:52] <grantg> that stupidly works around the timer throttle by doing the thing it's trying to avoid (event spam)
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369. # Session Close: Tue May 08 07:17:22 2012
370. #
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372. # Session Ident: #html5
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375. # [07:18] * Rejoined channel #html5
376. # [07:18] * Topic is 'Ask any question about HTML5 & Friends || HTML5 Spec for Developers: http://developers.whatwg.org || Also: http://html5rocks.com http://diveintohtml5.info http://mzl.la/9giLwR || Channel logs: http://j.mp/cG7UDa'
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939. # [12:17] <Trisox> is there font-smoothing: antialiased; for firefox?
940. # [12:17] <Trisox> also my fonts get bigger in firefox with @font-face
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950. # [12:24] <jarek> Trisox: on Chrome font-smoothing seems to be working only on Mac
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952. # [12:24] <jarek> Trisox: on Linux it does not change font rendering in any way
953. # [12:24] <jarek> I'm not sure how it behaves on Mac
954. # [12:25] <jarek> on Firefox
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957. # [12:26] <jarek> is it much slower to load 200 scripts from localhost than 1 combined script?
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959. # [12:27] <austincheney> jarek yes
960. # [12:27] <austincheney> there is overhead with each and every request
961. # [12:27] <jarek> austincheney: how much? Will it take more than 100ms?
962. # [12:27] <jarek> I'm currently using build system which merges all files together
963. # [12:27] <jarek> but it makes debugging much harder
964. # [12:28] <austincheney> there is approx 1kb of overhead from http headers plus latency and serialization problems from connection blocking in the real world
965. # [12:28] <austincheney> on the localhost you will not have most of these problems
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967. # [12:28] <austincheney> but it will still be slower
968. # [12:28] <jarek> I'm loading the files from local filesystem, there are no HTTP requests
969. # [12:29] <austincheney> there is still a system of requests, separated interpretation, blocking, and caching even though it is localhost
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971. # [12:29] <Trisox> i got a mac
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973. # [12:30] <austincheney> you are better off merging those files into the smallest few files just because it is so many
974. # [12:30] <Trisox> just wonder also wy firefox renders fonts bigger then chrome
975. # [12:30] <jarek> austincheney: but this not what server-side Node.js/PHP/Python developers are doing, right?
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977. # [12:30] <austincheney> jarek it should be
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993. # [12:55] <jarek> austincheney: it looks like you are right
994. # [12:55] <jarek> there seems to be like 500ms delay when loading greater amount of scripts on Chrome
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1213. # [17:48] <emc> hi, has anyone ever done a video in an iPad which has a div overlay? … is that possible at all?
1214. # [17:49] <emc> i.e. something like a speech bubble which pops up on top of a person's head in the video?
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1224. # [17:58] <JakeA> emc: I've seen iOS have this issue with video elements that are dynamically created
1225. # [17:58] <JakeA> whereas video elements already on the page don't exhibit the bug
1226. # [18:00] <JakeA> I think you can work around it by adding -webkit-transform-style: preserve-3d to the video element
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1244. # [18:21] <Moo^> emc: JakeA: there might be some restrictions so I suggest you simple try it out
1245. # [18:21] <Moo^> at least the playback must be user triggered etc.
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1263. # [18:46] <Stava> If I have an <article> with a <h1> heading, and inside that <article> have a <section> with another heading, which heading level should I use for the <section>s heading? <h1> or <h2>?
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1267. # [18:49] <Jon47> Stava - theoretically the section's primary heading should be an h1, but you may want to avoid having more than one h1 on the page until the sectioning elements are more widely accepted..
1268. # [18:49] <Jon47> i'm not sure how search engines handle it
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1270. # [18:49] <Stava> Does the same rules apply to <aside> as does to <section> when dealing with heading levels?
1271. # [18:50] <Jon47> yeah, to all sectioning elements
1272. # [18:50] <Stava> <article>, <section>, <nav> and <aside> are the current sectioning elements, right?
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1274. # [18:51] <Jon47> believe that's correct, ya
1275. # [18:51] <Stava> great, thanks :)
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1278. # [18:52] <Stava> Btw, do you know any WordPress HTML5 theme? I know if I simply search for it I'll get several results, many (or most) of which use incorrect semantics
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1280. # [18:52] <shwetank> i think bruce lawson has one, its simplistic, but maybe thats a good thing
1281. # [18:52] <Jon47> i used one called "starkers" once, based on boilerplate… seemed ok to me but I didn't poke around in it too much
1282. # [18:53] <Stava> shwetank: It is, I just want to see examples of correct syntax and semantics when dealing with the blog format
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1284. # [18:54] <shwetank> http://www.brucelawson.co.uk/html5-wordpress-theme/
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1286. # [18:54] <Stava> thanks
1287. # [18:54] <shwetank> np :)
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1311. # [19:22] <popof_> Thinking of implementing some bootstrap stuff into a site. Could you give me your thoughts? New concepts (not redesign):http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15298260/Examine%20Ephedrine/ephedrine.html Old: http://examine.com/supplements/Ephedrine/
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1313. # [19:26] <paul_irish> websocket frame data is now available in the Chrome DevTools. (Patch from RIM). screenshot: http://paulirish.com/i/websocketframes.png
1314. # [19:27] <shwetank> thats pretty cool
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1400. # [21:07] <paul_irish> FYI this is pretty sweet https://github.com/karlcow/browserfeatures/blob/master/bugsdb.json
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1458. # [22:36] <codewrangler> Is it advisable to use HTML5 for a "real" site yet, or is it a bit too early for it other than more proof-of-concept sites?
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1460. # [22:37] <Manavan> If i am using filesystem through out my app, should i keep a reference to it as a global variable to avoid calling window.requestFileSystem every time
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1462. # [22:42] <Jon47> window is a global var already..
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1464. # [22:42] <Manavan> ya but window.requestFileSystem is async call, if i were to call it everytime i wonder if its efficient
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1466. # [22:44] <Taftse> do you know if i can access a mobile phones camera using html5 ?
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1472. # [22:47] <luyang> Hi any URL tips for doing javascript games using canvas to animate images, handle collisions, 30fps game ticks...?
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1475. # [22:51] <David_Bradbury> luyang: I use impact.js (impactjs.com) myself for Canvas games
1476. # [22:51] <David_Bradbury> A quick Google search should provide plenty of options though
1477. # [22:52] <luyang> thanks mate
1478. # [22:52] <luyang> I think I heard about that
1479. # [22:52] <Taftse> anyone know if i can access a mobile phones camera using html5 ?
1480. # [22:52] <luyang> that was used in that war html5games game right
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1487. # [22:59] <tantek> codewrangler, there's plenty of HTML5 that you can use for real, practical sites today.
1488. # [23:00] <tantek> and there are bits of HTML5 that aren't quite ready yet (not supported consistently in browsers etc.)
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1491. # [23:04] <codewrangler> tantek: Thanks
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1497. # [23:08] <David_Bradbury> Taftse: I don't believe so. I think the best you can do is ask them to upload a photo they took
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1499. # [23:10] <Taftse> ok :(
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1502. # [23:11] <Taftse> guess i will have to build a app thanks David_Bradbury
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1534. # [23:43] <dahlfors> and last time I checked, file upload is available on android, but not iOS
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1536. # [23:44] <dahlfors> "security feature"
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1551. # Session Close: Wed May 09 00:00:00 2012

The end :)