/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2012-05-14 / end

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# Session Start: Mon May 14 00:00:00 2012
# Session Ident: #html5
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# [00:18] <fatAgnus> can <span> have a left border
# [00:19] <fatAgnus> span { border-left: 2px; }
# [00:19] <fatAgnus> its not working
# [00:19] <fatAgnus> example
# [00:19] <fatAgnus> span.ikey {
# [00:20] <fatAgnus> border-left-color: #FFFF00;
# [00:20] <fatAgnus> font-weight:bold;
# [00:20] <fatAgnus> border-left: 2px;
# [00:20] <fatAgnus> }
# [00:22] <Jon47> fatAgnus: take it to #css maybe?
# [00:22] <Jon47> but in general if you have an issue, you don't want to just paste code - create a demo that we can view, perhaps on jsfiddle, and then point us to that
# [00:22] <TomWij> fatAgnus: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/CSS/border-left-style
# [00:22] <TomWij> Read initial value there, then think. :)
# [00:22] <Gates> border-left:3px solid #000;
# [00:22] <Gates> does that
# [00:23] <fatAgnus> jsfiddle
# [00:23] <fatAgnus> never heard about that, thanks)))
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# [00:34] <Jon47> there are other tools too.. if you don't have any js to demo I think dabblet is pretty nice looking
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# [00:42] <fatAgnus> freenode is really accerating my learning curve))
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# [00:47] <fatAgnus> TomWij, as usual thanks
# [00:47] <fatAgnus> also GAtes
# [00:47] <Leemp> Is there any indicator to know if history.onpopstate was triggered by the initial page load specifically? (vs history.go/back/etc)
# [00:47] <fatAgnus> why do you use "3px solid" and not "2px solid"
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# [00:55] <Gates> fatAgnus: jsfiddle is damn useful
# [00:55] <Gates> that and codepad (for obj oritented)
# [00:55] <fatAgnus> i signed up
# [00:56] <fatAgnus> jsfiddle
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# [01:49] <Sazpaimon_> is there a way to disable display of specific controls in a player?
# [01:50] <Sazpaimon_> such as the play time and seek bar?
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# [02:23] <TomWij> Sazpaimon_: What is a player?
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# [02:51] <uf0_work> damn irc
# [02:51] <uf0_work> stop disconnecting me
# [02:51] <uf0_work> thank you
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# [04:07] <grantg> hey moo-_-
# [04:07] <grantg> I finally made a proper demo of resize.js
# [04:07] <grantg> http://www.grantgalitz.org/image_resize/ was redone
# [04:07] <grantg> :D
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# [04:08] <grantg> Seriously though, resize.js scales the image in js with no canvas context.
# [04:08] <grantg> so you can webworker it
# [04:08] <grantg> it's also as fast as the browser scaling it natively, when there's no gpu acceleration
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# [04:09] <akdom> I'm trying to render a portion of an SVG in a canvas and then use the data in that canvas. Even with a local server I'm getting a tainted canvas error in Firefox/Chrome. Any thoughts?
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# [04:09] <akdom> project: https://github.com/akesling/TrackSim, gist: https://gist.github.com/2691287
# [04:11] <grantg> not sure
# [04:11] <grantg> probably would need to see the whole source to see the problem
# [04:12] <akdom> source included there
# [04:12] <akdom> I can reformat it in all in its own gist if that would help?
# [04:16] <akdom> grantg: https://gist.github.com/2691303
# [04:21] <akdom> I'm up for any suggestions from anyone.... I've been bashing my head against this all day.
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# [04:25] <grantg> for getImageData, make it getImageData(0, 0, 500, 500)
# [04:27] <grantg> Are you retrieving the image right?
# [04:27] <akdom> grantg: thank you greatly
# [04:27] <akdom> that appears to work
# [04:27] <grantg> It does?
# [04:27] <grantg> nice
# [04:28] <akdom> that's an odd error to throw when a box isn't set
# [04:28] <grantg> heh
# [04:28] <grantg> You were missing dimension ranges for the pixels to capture
# [04:29] <akdom> one might assume that without a mention of pixels it might A) grab _all_ pixels, or B) error about parameters missing
# [04:29] <akdom> but I'm just happy to have something "functioning" now
# [04:29] <akdom> now to actually test the related code I had built up blindly
# [04:32] <grantg> heh
# [04:32] <akdom> oh... nvm. Apparently I had cleared the canvas somehow on my test a minute ago
# [04:32] <akdom> now that I repopulate it, I get a tainted canvas error again
# [04:32] * akdom *grumbles*
# [04:32] <akdom> grantg: any other suggestions?
# [04:34] <grantg> What's your image again you're trying to copy to canvas?
# [04:34] <grantg> make sure the image is being hosted on the same server
# [04:34] <akdom> it is
# [04:34] <grantg> for anything being copied to canvas
# [04:35] <akdom> they are both being served from localhost:8000 at the moment over "python -m SimpleHTTPServer"
# [04:35] <akdom> as suggested per http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8688600/context-getimagedata-on-localhost
# [04:36] <akdom> I've also tried loading it in the fashion mentioned in that post...
# [04:36] <akdom> next thing I guess I can try is to load a JPEG and see if it's just some random issue loading SVGs...
# [04:37] <grantg> put the entire file path in as url
# [04:37] <grantg> test that
# [04:37] <akdom> you mean relative path from webroot?
# [04:37] <grantg> I mean the absolute
# [04:39] <akdom> that's.... not how SimpleHTTPServer works
# [04:39] <akdom> it serves up the current directory as the webroot
# [04:40] <akdom> grantg: tried an absolute path from base of webroot
# [04:42] <akdom> same problems...
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# [04:45] <grantg> try on a web server?
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# [04:51] <akdom> that makes it kind of difficult to do active development...
# [04:51] <akdom> I guess I'll try it just to see if it works
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# [04:51] <akdom> but there is no logical reason why "localhost:8000" should act any different from "example.com"
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# [05:48] <uf0_work> sublime text >>
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# [06:29] <tw2113> figuring stuff out?
# [06:29] <tw2113> uf0_work
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# [06:37] <uf0_work> tw2113: yeah man it's awesome
# [06:37] <uf0_work> my goal is too memorize common keyboard shortcuts
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# [06:38] <uf0_work> but the editor is great.. actually genius
# [06:38] <uf0_work> thinking about it, insane how all the plugins are directly linked to git
# [06:39] <uf0_work> umm.. still though there's one thing that could be better
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# [06:39] <uf0_work> that's the CSS auto-completion
# [06:39] <uf0_work> that needs work
# [06:39] <uf0_work> but I can live with that for now
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# [06:45] <uf0_work> tw2113: the other great thing is key bindings
# [06:45] <uf0_work> i set it up perfectly so when I have certain characters I can easily convert to it's HTML entity
# [06:45] <uf0_work> by doing ctrl+8
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# [06:46] <tw2113> you lil hacker you
# [06:47] <uf0_work> my other problem was how to eff can I browser preview
# [06:48] <uf0_work> they should have that built in
# [06:48] <uf0_work> but anyway.. was able to figure something out for that
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# [06:49] <tw2113> dunno, i usually hit save, click browser, ctrl+r
# [06:49] <tw2113> but i'm on linux as well
# [06:49] <uf0_work> yeah but you would have to click on the actual file and open it in a browser right?
# [06:50] <uf0_work> I just wanted a quick browser preview from sublime
# [06:50] <tw2113> well, when working on localhost, i'm able to do what i said above
# [06:50] <tw2113> if i'm working on a site on a remote server, i have to add the step up uploading the saved file
# [06:52] <uf0_work> yeah remote is another case.. I just wanted something locally to preview html quickly if need be
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# [06:52] <uf0_work> localhost is another story.. but yea..
# [06:53] <tw2113> my old workflow was editing live from the server
# [06:54] <tw2113> but for whatever reason, my setups didn't like remote editing with sublime text, so i had to alter
# [06:54] <tw2113> it'd always freeze up the program
# [06:54] <uf0_work> so now you save and then upload?
# [06:55] <tw2113> yup
# [06:55] <tw2113> or work locally and just save
# [06:55] <tw2113> xampp ftw at times
# [06:55] <uf0_work> how do you upload.. filezilla (i recall you use that)
# [06:55] <uf0_work> ?
# [06:57] <uf0_work> i meant what program you use.. not how* :)
# [06:57] <uf0_work> to upload your files to remote
# [06:57] <tw2113> filezilla
# [06:57] <uf0_work> cool
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# [06:58] <uf0_work> i'm using transmit.. but I also installed sublime sftp
# [06:58] <uf0_work> and live editing there as well
# [06:58] <uf0_work> no problems here as of yet
# [07:01] <tw2113> i'm blaming gvfs stuff more than sublime text
# [07:02] <uf0_work> oh
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# [07:06] <tw2113_as_well> got disconnected
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# [07:08] <uf0_work> :) irc at its best
# [07:10] <tw2113> i was going to blame the ISP for this one
# [07:10] <uf0_work> oh usually always irc for me
# [07:11] <uf0_work> or who knows maybe irc doesn't like my isp
# [07:13] <tw2113> mine seems to kick the internet off temporarily when bandwith gets used
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# [07:16] <uf0_work> :)
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# [07:16] <tw2113> well, you see, Game Of Thrones had a new episode tonight.
# [07:16] <tw2113> i don't have cable
# [07:16] <uf0_work> hah
# [07:17] <uf0_work> hbogo.com >
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# [07:17] <tw2113> last i checked, that required a cable subscription
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# [07:18] <uf0_work> yea it does.. i just realized you don't have cable
# [07:18] <uf0_work> woops
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# [07:18] <uf0_work> still hbogo.com >>
# [07:18] <tw2113> http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/05/09/hbo-has-only-itself-to-blame-for-record-game-of-thrones-piracy/
# [07:18] <vanson2012> anyone have idea of keeping themselves concentrate on programming instead of youtube/facebook ??
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# [07:19] <uf0_work> ahh interesting
# [07:21] <tw2113> delete your accounts vanson2012
# [07:22] <uf0_work> article is right.. we'll see if they change up down the line (though they say probably not)
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# [07:27] <tw2113> uf0_work this 1.44gb episode better be worth it
# [07:27] <tw2113> visually
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# [07:56] <uf0_work> loll damn
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# [12:42] <jaami> i want to design my webpage like this http://jaami.co.cc/tshirt/PSD/01_home.png and here is what i have done so far http://jaami.co.cc/tshirt/ . please let me know how i can align the textmenue in the upper right corner of the page?
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# [13:17] <jaami> i want to design my webpage like this http://jaami.co.cc/tshirt/PSD/01_home.png and here is what i have done so far http://jaami.co.cc/tshirt/ . please let me know how i can align the textmenue in the upper right corner of the page? anyone helping me?
# [13:17] <xec_> jaami: are you trolling?
# [13:17] <jaami> trolling?
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# [13:18] <xec_> that "what i have done so far" looks like you just copypasted some text into word and hit "save as html"
# [13:20] <jaami> xec: yes, i was using a video tutorial. followed some basic styling rules
# [13:20] <xec_> apart from the "reset" css you got a grand total of 3 css rules, each in it's own <style> element
# [13:20] <xec_> it looks like you need to learn the very basics first, mate, no offence
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# [13:21] <jaami> xec: yes, you are right
# [13:21] <jaami> xec: do you think someone can do better than what i did without help?
# [13:22] <jaami> xec: all i need is one page with the help of instructor
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# [13:22] <jaami> xec: line by line , step by step
# [13:23] <jaami> i want to complete the homepage
# [13:23] <xec_> if you only need one page, and didn't know html or css, i would recommend you hire someone who does
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# [13:24] <jaami> xec: hiring is no problem. few days ago someone told me to go gett website and show us what you have completed so far. i got site and now you suggest to hire someone.
# [13:25] <jaami> nothing is closer to like a problem if i had money
# [13:26] <jaami> if i were rich man. why i put myself in trouble of learning htmml5
# [13:26] <jaami> xec: i got free domain and free webhosting
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# [13:28] <jaami> question is why God does not kill all money hungry mouths?
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# [13:30] <jaami> Power and mone go togather there is no God
# [13:30] <jaami> Power and money go togather if there is no God
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# [13:31] <jaami> and if there is God , money cant by anything
# [13:32] <jaami> or i should say money cant by everything.
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# [13:33] <_shorinji_> you certainly seem to have time on your hand to chat :P
# [13:33] <jaami> Lol
# [13:34] <jaami> yeh, thought that i had wasted more than i had, so does not matter if just smile
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# [13:34] <jaami> infact, who cares about personal issues of someone else and mIRC is certainly no help
# [13:36] <jaami> it has been 3 days since i got my free website up and runing and now waiting for help to make just one dam page with help of someone
# [13:37] <jaami> i hate browserbased app, but market demand made me learn it
# [13:37] <jaami> i hate coud computing, it gona take away our freedom
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# [13:38] <jaami> html5, jquery and csss3 altogather or may be dart too, are pushing us towards cloud computing
# [13:39] <jaami> why a browser is good for all kind of OS and hardware?
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# [13:39] <jaami> why, IE9 still does not support html5 fully
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# [13:40] <jaami> i want one framework and oneplatform for development and target would be any OS or hardware
# [13:41] <jaami> so, the answer is just a web browser
# [13:41] <jaami> LOL, funny isnt it?
# [13:42] <jaami> if browser can handle animation, it can handle anything
# [13:45] <jaami> why woulkd i learn something new after 2 years, leaving behind something i mastered in one year
# [13:45] <jaami> so, answer again is browser
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# [13:45] <jaami> the final tool to use for all kind of development is again browser.
# [13:46] <jaami> why Adobe hired the inventor of phonegap?
# [13:47] <jaami> i dont think he can invent anything any more now
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# [13:50] <jaami> bridge occopied
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# [13:50] <jaami> now pay tool tax
# [13:51] <jaami> now pay toltax
# [13:51] <jaami> correction: now pay tolltax
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# [13:53] <jaami> is there a way to hide identity on mIRC?
# [13:55] <Armen138> proxy server, TOR... google it ;)
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# [14:01] <jaami> ahan
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# [14:11] <mwagerfield> Hello everyone, I just completed my first 2.5D utility complete with an experiment. I have put it up on GitHub and would love some feedback if anyone finds it interesting...
# [14:11] <mwagerfield> http://matthewwagerfield.github.com/Axonometric-Projection/
# [14:12] <Armen138> mwagerfield: looks awesome in chrome, but incredibly slow in opera
# [14:15] <mwagerfield> It's pretty computationally heavy - doing just under 1200 calculations per frame. Does Opera's JS engine support Float32Arrays?
# [14:16] <Jon47> mwagerfield: that's badass
# [14:18] <mwagerfield> thank you :)
# [14:18] <aerotwist> mwagerfield: http://caniuse.com/#search=typed - yes, it does on newer versions
# [14:20] <mwagerfield> If anyone has any advice for optimising the JS, please point me in the right direction or get involved and send me a pull request.
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# [14:34] <mwagerfield> Armen138: Based on some feedback from aerotwist, I will be investigating the code to see if there is anything I can do to optimise it further and will then re-test on Opera
# [14:35] <Armen138> cool
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# [15:42] <pandeiro_> is there any way to get around the restriction on eval() in the Content Security Policy for things like Chrome extensions?
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# [15:54] <pandeiro_> can anyone show me an example of how to include 'unsafe-eval' in a Content Security Policy string? It's too damn early to parse the W3 spec
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# [16:03] <_shorinji_> you guys know of any good css lint tool?
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# [16:18] <kayam> #jquery
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# [18:31] <jarek> Hi
# [18:31] <jarek> do I need <?xml version="1.0"?> and doctype for SVG document to be valid?
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# [18:32] <jarek> Chrome renders SVGs without leading xml tag and doctype just fine
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# [18:36] <David_Bradbury> Are you writing an SVG document, HTML5 document, HTML document, XHTML, or XML?
# [18:42] <Pomax> jarek: in an HTML5 document, <svg> is a normal element
# [18:43] <Pomax> so you can embed as much as you like.
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# [18:43] <Pomax> for a real SVG document, you need the xml and svg doctype/namespace information
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# [18:44] <Pomax> anyone: where is the information that tells me which elements behave like <p> in the sense that not adding a </p> before the next <p> is "allowed"
# [18:45] <jarek> Pomax: I guess this must be defined somewhere in HTML5 spec
# [18:45] <jarek> Pomax: but is it really that good idea to use unclosed tag? It looks messy to me
# [18:45] <Pomax> it must be, but that's a huge document and not concise information
# [18:46] <Pomax> I'd have to run through every element to see what it says on the matter. that takes a lot of time
# [18:46] <Pomax> it's not, it's horrible.
# [18:46] <Pomax> but we're writing a code validator, and that's an edge case we need to support
# [18:46] <Pomax> so I want to know if I can just leave it at <p> followed by <p>, or whether we need to support more of these
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# [18:49] <jarek> Pomax: wait, there is already W3C validator
# [18:49] <jarek> Pomax: you can use it as reference
# [18:49] <Pomax> different kind of validator.
# [18:49] <jarek> try entering unclosed tag into validator and if it does not yield error then it's allowed
# [18:49] <Pomax> I am NOT trying a million element combinations by hand =P
# [18:50] <Pomax> I'll settle for a part of the spec that says "these elements can be left open if followed by these other elements"
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# [19:03] <David_Bradbury> You can do <p> followed by <p>
# [19:03] <David_Bradbury> It will automatically close the previous paragraph
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# [19:04] <David_Bradbury> automagically*
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# [19:04] <jarek> I think it would be better for mankind if your validator marked unclosed tags as invalid (even though the spec says otherwise)
# [19:05] <David_Bradbury> That's tough considering the validator is based on the spec
# [19:06] <David_Bradbury> Also, validators, while often used to find and correct problems, is not designed explicitly for that purpose
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# [19:09] <jarek> Pomax: found it: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/index/elements.html
# [19:09] <jarek> but it's for HTML4
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# [19:09] <Pomax> that doesn't help =x
# [19:10] <Pomax> (our parser actively doesn't accept HTML4)
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# [19:11] <jarek> I would expect all optional closing tags from HTML4 to be also optional in HTML5
# [19:11] <jarek> I mean the only reason why optional closing tags are allowed in HTML5 is backward compatibility, right?
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# [19:14] <Jon47> that's a big reason though..
# [19:14] <jarek> Pomax: http://dev.w3.org/html5/html-author/#index-of-elements
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# [19:15] <Pomax> you'd think
# [19:16] <Pomax> ah. that should work
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# [19:16] <jarek> why closing tag for <h1> is required and for <p> it's optional? This makes absolutely no sense
# [19:17] <jarek> and both <h1> and <p> elements where back in HTML4
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# [19:17] <jarek> it's a shame that this mess will be allowed for the next ~10 years
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# [19:20] <David_Bradbury> Why is that bad?
# [19:22] <jarek> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxmcDoAxdoY&t=17m40s
# [19:22] <jarek> this is madness, event paul_irish is using them :/
# [19:22] <David_Bradbury> And... What is wrong with using them?
# [19:23] <David_Bradbury> And if you haven't already, I suggest watching that whole thing. It's a great presentation
# [19:23] <jarek> David_Bradbury: the rules for using them are inconsistent
# [19:23] <jarek> David_Bradbury: take a look at the table on w3c, I can't see a pattern there
# [19:23] <divya> jarek: yeah but that is how html is in general
# [19:23] <divya> or any web tech.
# [19:23] <divya> you better get your abstractions out to make it easier for yourself :)
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# [19:24] <jarek> few years ago everybody was talking about XHTML
# [19:25] <jarek> using XML rules for HTML was considered to be a good practice
# [19:25] <jarek> even if you were not serving XHTML files as XML
# [19:26] <jarek> but now we are moving backward
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# [19:27] <David_Bradbury> Why is omitting certain opening and closing tags moving backwards?
# [19:27] <David_Bradbury> Often times the tags are redundant, and sure, it isn't fully consistent, but at least it has a standard which to go by
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# [19:28] <jarek> David_Bradbury: because this was a feature that was introduced in HTML's early days and should be deprecated long time ago
# [19:28] <Pomax> it basically shows that your background is fully qualified markup language.
# [19:28] <Pomax> if someone who's used to TeX looks at HTML5, their question is "why are so many of these things explicitly closed?"
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# [19:29] <Pomax> it's a tradoff between non-verbosity and unambiguous markup
# [19:29] <David_Bradbury> Well, parsing HTML wasn't standardized until recently
# [19:29] <Pomax> *tradeoff
# [19:29] <Pomax> different people draw the line in different places.
# [19:29] <David_Bradbury> I find not having to close <li>'s quite liberating :P
# [19:30] <Pomax> it's like TeX's \item =)
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# [19:30] <Pomax> hm, 13 optionally closable elements. That not too many.
# [19:30] <tw2113> i'll still quote all my attributes, but i'm liking not having closing list items
# [19:30] <Pomax> to the parser extending
# [19:30] * Pomax disappears
# [19:30] <David_Bradbury> :p
# [19:30] <jarek> David_Bradbury: even without closing tags, HTML is not a very well suited to be typed by hand
# [19:30] <Pomax> okay, what?
# [19:30] <Pomax> I hand type all my html O-o
# [19:30] <jarek> David_Bradbury: we have Markdown for that
# [19:31] <Pomax> (because I'm hardcore)
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# [19:31] <David_Bradbury> I don't know any professional developer who doesn't type all their HTML by hand
# [19:31] <David_Bradbury> Maybe some use a template or boilerplate
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# [19:32] <David_Bradbury> But when it comes down to it, most programmers do all their work by hand
# [19:32] <tw2113> markdown !== wysiwyg
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# [19:32] <tw2113> i haven't gotten into markdown yet, but i know that much
# [19:32] <Pomax> markup != wysiwyg
# [19:33] <Pomax> what the markup is, and what it looks like, are usually unrelated (unless your markup language is bad. or old)
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# [19:34] <Pomax> even something like markdown doesn't need to be rendered the same across two implementations, as long as the concepts the markup intends are clear in the visual presentation
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# [19:35] <David_Bradbury> I enjoy my beautiful markup :P It's handcraft and is pleasing to myself and other developers who look at it.
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# [19:36] <Pomax> and I would be a terrible person to deny you beauty, but it's not the markup that's making it pretty. it's the thing that renders it =P
# [19:36] <David_Bradbury> Indeed
# [19:36] <Pomax> (although the markup may be really pretty asciiesque)
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# [19:37] <David_Bradbury> I've been trying to get better at making my PHP render pretty markup as well, but it can be a bit harder to wrestle with
# [19:37] <David_Bradbury> But you are correct that ultimately all that matters is how the browser renders it
# [19:37] <tw2113> i have no issue with php rendering the markup, the indents though...
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# [19:39] <eamonnw> test
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# [19:39] <eamonnw> my table is shifted out side the parent div and i cant see why even with firebug
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# [19:43] <eamonnw> or just tell me where to go
# [19:44] <jarek> eamonnw: we can't help you without seeing the actual page
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# [20:29] <fatAgnus_> hi
# [20:29] <fatAgnus_> questions
# [20:29] <grantg> hey
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# [20:29] <fatAgnus_> I know there is a framework of some sorts that uses nodejs+mongdb and if you change something in mongodb it automaticly refreshes your webclient
# [20:30] <eamonnw> jarek: thanks i've solved it
# [20:30] <fatAgnus_> i forget the name
# [20:30] <fatAgnus_> i read it here yesterday, but totally forgot name
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# [20:31] <fatAgnus_> maybe i should join #javascript
# [20:31] <fatAgnus_> haha
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# [20:36] <David_Bradbury> fatAgnus_: Are you thinking about Meteor?
# [20:36] <eamonnw> ok actually i still have the problem
# [20:36] <eamonnw> http://eamonnw.metapath.org/joblist/960.html
# [20:36] <David_Bradbury> Which I wouldn't use at all
# [20:37] <eamonnw> what makes the table appear to overflow or breakout out of the parent div
# [20:37] <eamonnw> ??
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# [20:38] <Pomax> I don't see it do that
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# [20:39] <eamonnw> im using firebug and when i highlight the parent div i see the table peeking out to the right
# [20:40] <eamonnw> the parent div is id="MAINTABLE"
# [20:40] <Pomax> oh hang on, I gave the wrong div a background color
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# [20:43] <Pomax> oh man, that is a forest of CSS... ditch reset, do targeted resets =x
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# [20:45] <jarek> what is the best SVG validator?
# [20:45] <Pomax> inkscape
# [20:45] <Pomax> =P
# [20:45] <Pomax> I've found just loading it in Chrome to be pretty useful
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# [20:45] <jarek> Pomax: but Chrome is too much forgiving
# [20:46] <Pomax> not if it has an XML doctype
# [20:46] <Pomax> there is no forgiving in XML mode
# [20:46] <jarek> and Inkscape often fails to render perfectly valid documents (e.g. foreignObject is not supported at all)
# [20:46] <Pomax> either your xml is correct, or it's not
# [20:47] <Pomax> foreignObject is a terrible tag anyway >_>
# [20:47] <jarek> Pomax: it's terrible approach, but it opens huge possibilities
# [20:48] <jarek> e.g. it allows me to use advanced text layouts in SVG
# [20:48] <Pomax> yes, of putting things that in no way render like SVG into an SVG element
# [20:48] <Pomax> effectly making it not scalable.
# [20:48] <jarek> Pomax: you can apple transforms to foreignObject element
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# [20:48] <jarek> s/apple/apply
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# [20:49] <diimdeep> Hello, " According to CSS spec an inline element must contain either only block element or only inline elements." - any real example ?
# [20:49] <digitalfiz> http://html9responsiveboilerstrapjs.com/
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# [20:49] <digitalfiz> lolz
# [20:49] <jarek> diimdeep: I would expect this to be specified in HTML spec, not CSS spec
# [20:50] <diimdeep> jarek: http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/internals/howbrowserswork/
# [20:50] <diimdeep> from here
# [20:50] <Pomax> jarek: you can indeed, but that still doesn't make sense
# [20:50] <jarek> Pomax: it doesn't make sense to duplicate the functionality of HTML in SVG
# [20:50] <Pomax> diimdeep: not entirely sure what you're asking? do you want a real example of code that shows that rule being obeyed, or violated?
# [20:51] <diimdeep> Pomax: both
# [20:51] <Pomax> jarek: it doesn't make sense to embed HTML in SVG, when you can embed SVG in HTML.
# [20:51] <diimdeep> would be nice
# [20:51] <Pomax> the spec pretty much literally describes the test cases
# [20:51] * eamonnw looks for clues
# [20:51] <eamonnw> i see no clues
# [20:51] <eamonnw> thanks anyway
# [20:52] <jarek> Pomax: HTML defines a vocabulary for describing documents (and apps recently), SVG defines vocabulary for describing graphics
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# [20:52] <jarek> Pomax: it's not that uncommon to put documents inside graphics, e.g. when you are doing infographics you might need to embed some tables
# [20:52] <Pomax> jarek: yes, so what would you concretely include as a foreignobject?
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# [20:53] <jarek> Pomax: I'm currently using foreignObject for tabular data and multiline text
# [20:53] <Pomax> http://svg-whiz.com/svg/table.svg
# [20:53] <jarek> though I must admit that foreignObject is currently so buggy that it's useless for serious tasks
# [20:54] <Pomax> using foreignObject basically says "I have NO IDEA how this should be rendered. but I'm including it anyway"
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# [20:54] <Pomax> if you need something that's still rigid graphics, use graphics. There's no table element, but you can certainly effect a table look in pure SVG
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# [20:56] <jarek> Pomax: table inside foreignObject will render exactly as table inside HTML div with fixed size
# [20:57] <Pomax> only if the end point knows how to render XHTML
# [20:58] <Pomax> which, if it's a graphics package: why would it.
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# [20:59] <jarek> Pomax: yeah, both Inkscape and Illustrator can't render XHTML
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# [21:00] <unomi> Hiyas
# [21:00] <jarek> but my SVG editor is definitely going to support that :P
# [21:01] <unomi> I am fiddling with DnD - I have a composite node that I would like for the entirety of to act as a dropzone
# [21:01] <jarek> is it true that SVG1.2 drops the doctype?
# [21:01] <jarek> http://www.w3.org/wiki/SVGvalidation says so, but I can't find it in the spec
# [21:02] <unomi> but it looks as though dragleave fires even though the dragged node is still within the drop targe ( though now over a child element )
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# [21:03] <unomi> am I just missing a piece of the puzzle or is this as intended?
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# [22:27] <paul_irish> David_Bradbury: i like jade + markdown
# [22:27] <paul_irish> i'm tired of angle brackets.
# [22:28] <David_Bradbury> paul_irish: I hadn't heard of jade, that looks really nice. But angle brackets feel like a security blanket. I feel funny without them.
# [22:29] <divya> there are better things to worry about than angle brackets.
# [22:29] <paul_irish> ^''
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# [22:30] <David_Bradbury> Heh
# [22:30] <David_Bradbury> I wasn't seriously worrying about them, but it does feel a tad naked
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# [23:03] <Jon47> get naked
# [23:03] <Jon47> own it
# [23:04] <Jon47> make em all look at their clothes and wonder wtf they were thinking
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# Session Close: Tue May 15 00:00:00 2012

The end :)