/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2012-05-15 / end

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  80. # [01:53] <uf0_work> you guys ever heard of this? http://zengrids.com/
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  83. # [01:54] <sunbeam> Can anyone let me know what role="main" in html5 is ment for?
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  86. # [01:54] <sunbeam> on a div id="container" this is good use?
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  94. # [02:03] <atdiehm> any good recommendations on streaming live video? is the tech there now to do it internally and not use an external provider?
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  96. # [02:08] <tw2113> sunbeam accessibility stuff
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  98. # [02:11] <uf0_work> so no one uses zengrids i assume :)
  99. # [02:11] <uf0_work> responsive "grid
  100. # [02:11] <tw2113> http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-role/
  101. # [02:12] <tw2113> never heard of it
  102. # [02:12] <uf0_work> yea...
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  104. # [02:13] <uf0_work> not that i'm using it... but was curious if anyone used it or heard
  105. # [02:14] <Pomax> mmm free copy of lightroom 4. Adobe screwed up so bad that they're resorting to giving me part of my order for free.
  106. # [02:15] <sunbeam> tw2113: thanks
  107. # [02:16] <Pomax> (long story short, they overcharged my credit card by accidentally selling me the wrong products, linked to a phantom account so I never got any serials, they couldn't find the order for a whole hour on the phone to even roll it back, and so effectively just stole my money)
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  110. # [02:18] <uf0_work> hah
  111. # [02:19] <Pomax> best part, I initially called them to have my country changed because I moved countries.
  112. # [02:19] <Pomax> it's still the old one.
  113. # [02:19] <Pomax> quality
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  115. # [02:27] <uf0_work> marvelous
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  136. # [02:56] <uf0_work> wow
  137. # [02:56] * mike5w3c_ is now known as mike5w3c
  138. # [02:57] <uf0_work> why have I never heard of pointer-events property in CSS?
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  141. # [03:04] <tw2113> because it never came up in your presence yet
  142. # [03:05] <uf0_work> yes
  143. # [03:05] <uf0_work> now.. um
  144. # [03:05] <uf0_work> is there a way to disable click event but hover
  145. # [03:05] <uf0_work> through pointer-events
  146. # [03:06] <uf0_work> that'd be nice
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  153. # [03:15] <tw2113> no idea, not sure what they are offhand
  154. # [03:17] <tw2113> <3 DuckDuckGo loves me
  155. # [03:17] <tw2113> it puts MDN results first
  156. # [03:20] <tw2113> ooh, this would prove helpful for z-index stuff
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  162. # [03:34] <tw2113> uf0_work https://github.com/tw2113/WordPress-Starter-Theme/commit/ea5d94efcc8c99b26b1792530ced1c138ac0ff3e
  163. # [03:34] <socialhapy> ★ Commit on WordPress-Starter-Theme by tw2113 (1m, 43s ago): added pointer event for nav menus
  164. # [03:35] <uf0_work> ummm
  165. # [03:36] <uf0_work> oh ok
  166. # [03:37] <tw2113> inspired by y tw2113 (1m, 43s ago): added pointer event for nav menus
  167. # [03:37] <tw2113> [08:27pm] <uf0_work> ummm
  168. # [03:37] <tw2113> oops
  169. # [03:37] <tw2113> http://css-tricks.com/pointer-events-current-nav/
  170. # [03:37] <tw2113> damn IRC highlight clipboard
  171. # [03:37] <uf0_work> :)
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  195. # [04:27] <tw2113> paul_irish very nice opening to yayquery 18 with Resig
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  208. # [05:07] <Blaker0111> Hi. If I had a welcome message of sorts on my home page, under my header section, what dom element would i want to use to hold the message? section, div? Currently all I am planning for it is a h1 tag and a single p tag. I know its not that big of a deal either or, but i am still getting a hang of the idea of when to use the newer more semantically correct elements vs all divs/etc.
  209. # [05:08] <tw2113> i'd probably just use a div
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  211. # [05:10] <Blaker0111> gotcha
  212. # [05:11] <Blaker0111> and in a traditional blog sense, where you have a side section of the page with a search box, the categories section, tag cloud, etc, you do not want to use an aside tag for that, right?
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  218. # [05:21] <JonEdney> Well this is going to be stupid but, <meta charset='UTF-8" /> is HTML 5 valid, right?
  219. # [05:22] <grantg> dat mismatching of quotes
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  221. # [05:22] <grantg> you have a single and a double quote there
  222. # [05:23] <JonEdney> Whoops, that was a typio in here - double quote both.
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  225. # [05:26] <tw2113> other than the quote issue, yes
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  247. # [06:05] <Blaker0111> if i have a <section> on my home page for recent blog/news post snippets containing the entries' headers, and a preview of the post, should i use <article> tags or divs?
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  271. # [06:53] <obert-> do you got a nice feature about usability to add to a contact form?
  272. # [06:54] <tw2113> make sure you use label
  273. # [06:54] <tw2113> s
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  275. # [06:55] <obert-> tw2113: was for me?
  276. # [06:55] <tw2113> yes
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  278. # [06:58] <tantek> obert- are you publishing your contact info as well, or just a form?
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  288. # [07:14] <obert-> tantek: it is a contact form
  289. # [07:15] <tantek> no contact info then?
  290. # [07:15] <tw2113> but are you including text like phone numbers and your address?
  291. # [07:15] <tw2113> or is it just input types?
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  294. # [07:16] <obert-> tantek: textual contact info will be above the form, for example
  295. # [07:17] <obert-> just searching for some autofocus stuff or such
  296. # [07:17] <obert-> atm i'm using only a html4 structure :p
  297. # [07:17] <tw2113> clicking on labels moves the cursor to the associated input
  298. # [07:17] <tantek> ah ok - then you can help the page by marking up the textual contact info with #microformats e.g. hCard: http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-authoring
  299. # [07:17] <obert-> no no, i was focusing just on the form itself atm
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  301. # [07:18] <obert-> micrformats wasnt useless nowdays?
  302. # [07:18] <tw2113> i believe the google picks up on hcards in search results
  303. # [07:19] <tantek> obert- on the contrary, microformats are used more than all other variants combined per webdatacrawl analyses.
  304. # [07:19] <tantek> google, bing, yahoo (via bing), and yandex all index hCards
  305. # [07:20] <tantek> http://microformats.org/wiki/search-engines
  306. # [07:20] <tw2113> obert- you can trust tantek too, i can vouch
  307. # [07:20] <obert-> mhm thought it was an old thing..i can forget something:P
  308. # [07:20] <tantek> obert- the <p> tag is a pretty old thing too ;)
  309. # [07:20] <obert-> me too
  310. # [07:20] <obert-> starting to
  311. # [07:20] <tw2113> didn't moses write the first draft of the spec for <p>?
  312. # [07:20] <tantek> obert- in this case, old really means well established/tested/supported
  313. # [07:20] <tantek> lol
  314. # [07:21] <obert-> mhm
  315. # [07:21] <obert-> i dont discuss
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  317. # [07:23] <obert-> but i didnt got why i should use it to visually print contact info
  318. # [07:24] <tw2113> how's Mozilla lately tantek ?
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  322. # [07:25] <obert-> no autofocus then?:P
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  326. # [07:25] <tw2113> isn't autofocus an html5 forms thing?
  327. # [07:26] <obert-> hope so
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  330. # [07:26] <tw2113> but you're focusing on html4 stuff
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  332. # [07:26] <obert-> was searching for tips:p
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  335. # [07:27] <tw2113> just a tip, most, if not all, of the html5 form inputs fall back to text inputs if not supported *nod*
  336. # [07:27] <obert-> well, my structure is html4,but could be html5 too perhaps:p
  337. # [07:27] <obert-> <div><label><input></div>
  338. # [07:27] <obert-> it is a classic structure
  339. # [07:27] <tw2113> nothing wrong there
  340. # [07:28] <obert-> but i'm using a basic html5 structure for the main structure, then i thought i could find some good idea to improve its usability
  341. # [07:28] <obert-> if easy and possible
  342. # [07:28] <tw2113> http://www.usability.com.au/resources/forms.cfm
  343. # [07:29] <tw2113> http://www.alistapart.com/articles/sensibleforms/
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  345. # [07:29] <obert-> that microformat idea sounds a bit long to be realized by myself:p but if there was some html5 feature that are quick to be implemented..i would be happy
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  347. # [07:29] <obert-> .cfm!
  348. # [07:29] <obert-> :P
  349. # [07:29] <obert-> and thanks
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  351. # [07:30] <tw2113> don't forget tab index
  352. # [07:30] <tw2113> http://www.yourhtmlsource.com/forms/formsaccessibility.html
  353. # [07:31] <obert-> 100,110 as tabindex values?
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  355. # [07:35] <tantek> obert- you can always just use the hCard creator also: http://microformats.org/code/hcard/creator
  356. # [07:35] <tantek> to create your contact info markup
  357. # [07:36] <obert-> oh but you meant to just create a contact info using microformats
  358. # [07:36] <obert-> ?
  359. # [07:36] <tantek> right
  360. # [07:36] <obert-> i'd used them then
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  362. # [07:37] <obert-> i'm not confused anymore:P
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  364. # [07:38] <obert-> mm autofocus requires modernirz and such?
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  366. # [07:39] <obert-> mah for now i'd just added autofocus to the first input field
  367. # [07:40] <tantek> sure
  368. # [07:42] <obert-> tantek: sure it needs mordernirz?:)
  369. # [07:42] <obert-> i hope your second name isnt Celik ;)
  370. # [07:43] <tw2113> it is
  371. # [07:43] <obert-> :) i'd read stuff from him then, tw2113
  372. # [07:44] <obert-> assumin
  373. # [07:44] <tw2113> @t
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  381. # [07:56] <obert-> which features are you using almost in forms to improve usability
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  399. # [08:18] <advait> how html5 web storage workd?
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  401. # [08:18] <dr0id> magically
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  478. # [09:48] <jaami> i want to design my webpage like this http://jaami.co.cc/tshirt/PSD/01_home.png and here is what i have done so far http://jaami.co.cc/tshirt/ . please let me know how i can align the textmenue in the upper right corner of the page?
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  480. # [09:49] <jaami> i have to repeat the same question because got no help so far
  481. # [09:49] <jaami> this chanel is just BS
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  552. # [11:37] <bngle> is this a right channel to ask questions about html 5 bloilerplate build task?
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  561. # [11:50] <huevos> i would say so yes
  562. # [11:50] <huevos> i see paul irish in here every now n' then
  563. # [11:50] <huevos> not actually sure if its him or not
  564. # [11:50] <huevos> but this would definitely be my best guess to ask that sort of question
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  566. # [11:51] <huevos> assuming most people in here are American, this isnt exactly the best time of day to ask though
  567. # [11:53] <huevos> so u might want to find a forum and post a question, or come back later in the day when this channel is more active
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  576. # [12:14] <bngle> okay thanks, maybe i can figure this out myself
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  602. # [13:23] <agu10^> Hey!
  603. # [13:24] <agu10^> what do you think of the website I'm creating?
  604. # [13:24] <agu10^> http://compuayuda.com.ar/
  605. # [13:24] <agu10^> it's for some computer/software support
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  610. # [13:36] <dr0id> it looks horribad awful
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  623. # [13:56] <huevos> yea
  624. # [13:56] <huevos> u really should be ashamed of yourself
  625. # [13:56] <huevos> and srsly
  626. # [13:57] <huevos> Web Designers? Not playing Diablo 3 right now?
  627. # [13:57] <huevos> freaks
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  667. # [14:50] <parzo> I have a bit of a weird problem going on… I am trying to implement ajax + push state on some pagination links here: http://empty-fire-5772.herokuapp.com/venues but I can't figure out why it isn't working correctly
  668. # [14:52] <parzo> Works ok on my dev server, but as soon as I put it into production and compress the JS it stops working
  669. # [14:52] <parzo> Not sure if it is a HTML/JS issue or a ROR one
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  672. # [15:03] <moo-_-> parzo: usually a bug in the compressor, related to ; or ,
  673. # [15:04] <parzo> thanks :)
  674. # [15:04] <moo-_-> parzo: run your JS through jshint / jslint and fix potential errors
  675. # [15:07] <TomWij> <huevos> [13:50:58] freaks
  676. # [15:07] <TomWij> Just done 13 hours of Diablo III straight, thank you. :D
  677. # [15:08] <parzo> thanks looks like that might be a good starting point
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  679. # [15:08] <parzo> "Too many errors. (80% scanned)."
  680. # [15:12] <moo-_-> :)
  681. # [15:12] <moo-_-> parzo: do you have many JS files?
  682. # [15:12] <moo-_-> parzo: if you do you might find this tool useful file:///Users/moo/code/vvv/docs/build/html/tools/addjsglobals.html
  683. # [15:12] <moo-_-> ops
  684. # [15:13] <moo-_-> this http://miohtama.github.com/vvv/tools/addjsglobals.html
  685. # [15:13] <parzo> there is prob about 6-7
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  687. # [15:14] <johnkpaul> Does anyone know if there is a way to retrieve the actual recording from x-webkit-speech inputs?
  688. # [15:15] <parzo> cheers for the link though
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  697. # [15:24] <Peetz0r> I have a, you guessed it right, IE problem, and I wouldn't know what could be wrong this time. I have a page full of videos, and all of them work in firefox, chrome and opera, but only the first 2 work in IE9. As far as I know they are all identical, created wit the same camera and conversion software
  698. # [15:24] <Peetz0r> Here's the list of video's: http://terminal-logic.nl/scoutingvideo/scoutingvideo.php
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  904. # [18:56] <mhelvens> Hi all! I'd like to learn how to develop modern web-apps in HTML5. I already have a background in programming (C++, Java, etc.), HTML 4 / CSS 2 and computer science. Can anyone recommend a good text for me? Preferably a book, but a website would do.
  905. # [18:56] <mhelvens> Thanks!
  906. # [18:57] <mhelvens> Basically I don't know where to begin.
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  929. # [19:19] <Peetz0r> mhelvens: http://diveintohtml5.info/
  930. # [19:20] <mhelvens> :-)
  931. # [19:20] <mhelvens> Thanks! I'll go take a look!
  932. # [19:20] <Peetz0r> It's a website. Or it's a book. Read it and ou'll figure it out ;)
  933. # [19:20] <tw2113> it's an online resource
  934. # [19:20] <mhelvens> I just like paper books. That's all. ;-) On the other hands, websites are more likely to be up to date.
  935. # [19:20] <mhelvens> *hand
  936. # [19:20] <tw2113> and websites are usually free
  937. # [19:21] <mhelvens> True.
  938. # [19:21] <mhelvens> Unless I print it.
  939. # [19:21] <Peetz0r> mhelvens: you can order that website as a book ;)
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  941. # [19:21] <mhelvens> Aha.
  942. # [19:21] <mhelvens> This book also looks promising: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pro-JavaScript-Apps-Adam-Freeman/dp/1430244615/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1337099586&sr=1-6
  943. # [19:22] <mhelvens> But no reviews yet.
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  999. # [20:43] <paul_irish> hey what do you guys run for your clientside unit tests? qunit jasmine, should.js .. anyothers?
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  1001. # [20:46] <tw2113> can't say i run anything, i'm actually curious how to set up unit tests and whatnot. there needs to be more tutorials for this type of thing
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  1004. # [20:47] <tw2113> especially if they're such a valuable thing :)
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  1032. # [21:18] <Jax> hello
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  1058. # [21:58] <evasivx> Ok so i found out how
  1059. # [21:58] <evasivx> But, there is still a damn div there :(
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  1073. # [22:08] <jarek> do you what is the meaning of "atob" and "btoa"?
  1074. # [22:08] <jarek> s/do you/do you know
  1075. # [22:09] <jarek> those methods are used for encoding and decoding binaries:
  1076. # [22:09] <jarek> https://developer.mozilla.org/En/DOM/Window.btoa, https://developer.mozilla.org/en/DOM/window.atob
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  1078. # [22:09] <jarek> but why did they call them atob and btoa?
  1079. # [22:09] <Armen138> ascii to binary maybe?
  1080. # [22:10] <jarek> Armen: hmm... makes sense
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  1082. # [22:11] <manuchill> btoa is an abbreviation for: Binary TO ASCII
  1083. # [22:12] <jarek> how do I decode file with "image/svg+xml" type?
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  1085. # [22:12] <jarek> it uses utf-8
  1086. # [22:12] <Jax> how do i make random popups with changing information without reloading a page?
  1087. # [22:12] <Jax> or update a basket in place or something
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  1090. # [22:14] <David_Bradbury> I'd use ajax, but I would advise against pop-ups
  1091. # [22:14] <Jax> also i constantly see hiding of content
  1092. # [22:14] <Jax> is this some new concept people are using
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  1094. # [22:15] <David_Bradbury> I already answered your question
  1095. # [22:15] <Jax> say i want to hide the shipment options, but they can open it like an accordeon
  1096. # [22:15] <Jax> been seeing all this stuff but have been gone too long :D
  1097. # [22:15] <David_Bradbury> There are many things to do that. jQuery is probably the most common
  1098. # [22:16] <Jax> ok thanks
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  1100. # [22:18] <David_Bradbury> jarek: What do you mean 'decode'
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  1102. # [22:18] <David_Bradbury> ?
  1103. # [22:19] <jarek> David_Bradbury: I'm using File API to read files that are dragged into div
  1104. # [22:19] <jarek> David_Bradbury: the problem is that I'm getting binary data even if I drag SVG file
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  1106. # [22:22] <David_Bradbury> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5744064/html5-file-api-reading-in-an-xml-text-file-and-displaying-it-on-the-page
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  1109. # [22:23] <jarek> David_Bradbury: thanks, it works
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  1115. # [22:27] <noob_symantic> hi, whats a good symantic tag for content that looks like Status: Public Members: 40 Shares: 100 Last Activity: 3:00am. I currently am using divs with CSS on them. I need a better tag. P tags are paragraphs.. thats no good. its not really an unordered list either. so <li> tags are a no.
  1116. # [22:27] <noob_symantic> i'm open for symantic suggestions :)
  1117. # [22:28] <noob_symantic> because I have divitus
  1118. # [22:28] <jarek> noob_symantic: how about <dl>, <dt> and <dd>?
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  1122. # [22:29] <David_Bradbury> jarek Is correct, you should use definition lists
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  1127. # [22:31] <noob_symantic> thanks jarek!
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  1129. # [22:31] <noob_symantic> thats one step toward healing my divitus haha
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  1133. # [22:34] <noob_symantic> oh no.. my divitus is coming back...
  1134. # [22:34] <noob_symantic> jarek: can I wrap my <dt></dt><dd></dd> with a <div></div> within the <dl></dl> and still be able to validate?
  1135. # [22:35] <jarek> noob_symantic: semantic markup is not really that important
  1136. # [22:35] <noob_symantic> haha.. i spelled it wrong too hehehe.. symantic.. LOL
  1137. # [22:35] <David_Bradbury> Why do you want to noob?
  1138. # [22:35] <jarek> noob_symantic: do whatever will make the code more maintainable
  1139. # [22:35] <noob_symantic> thanks jarek.
  1140. # [22:35] <tw2113> semantics are important, just not as obviously as some people prefer
  1141. # [22:36] <noob_symantic> david: just trying to change my style
  1142. # [22:36] <noob_symantic> david: I mean just trying to use other tags instead of using div all the time
  1143. # [22:36] <David_Bradbury> What are you doing that would require you to wrap your content in a definition list a div?
  1144. # [22:36] <Jax> what is initializr about anyway
  1145. # [22:36] <noob_symantic> welp.. then I will add the divs when I need to
  1146. # [22:36] <David_Bradbury> I don't think you need to add divs as often as you think
  1147. # [22:37] <tw2113> if there's a new tag that is better for the task at hand, by all means use it
  1148. # [22:37] <tw2113> if there isn't, a div is still perfectly valid
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  1150. # [22:38] <David_Bradbury> It is, but it seems like he wants a definition list, which if that is the case, he should avoid divs
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  1152. # [22:38] <David_Bradbury> Sure, I could code an ordered list to be done with div's, but that doesn't mean I should do it just because I can't remember what the right tag is :p
  1153. # [22:39] <tw2113> there's a tag set for definition lists!
  1154. # [22:39] <tw2113> use it
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  1165. # [22:53] <Jax> how would i create something like this: A list of orders, and when i click an order, the items appear under it (perhaps it should load them when the object is clicked, not beforehand)
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  1175. # [23:02] <David_Bradbury> ?g ordered list accordian
  1176. # [23:02] <caniuse> David_Bradbury: Exactly How to Create a Custom jQuery Accordion | Nettuts+ - http://net.tutsplus.com/tutorials/javascript-ajax/exactly-how-to-create-a-custom-jquery-accordion/
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  1180. # [23:04] <David_Bradbury> Hmm, didn't bring the same first result
  1181. # [23:04] <David_Bradbury> http://forum.jquery.com/topic/ordered-list-in-accordion
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  1197. # [23:27] <jarek> how do I transform SVG element that is inside another SVG element?
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  1199. # [23:28] <jarek> for some reason SVG nodes don't have 'transform' properties
  1200. # [23:28] <jarek> that's strange, I though nested SVGs behave the same way as groups
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  1206. # [23:32] <jarek> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2252
  1207. # [23:33] <jarek> I can't do that :/
  1208. # [23:33] <jarek> this means that nested SVGs are rather useless
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  1220. # [23:42] <jarek> is it allowed for SVG file to have multiple <defs> sections?
  1221. # [23:43] * Quits: DoniRS (~DoniRS@ip188-133-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl) (Read error: No route to host)
  1222. # [23:44] * Quits: nekr (~nekr@93-80-124-147.broadband.corbina.ru) (Quit: Leaving)
  1223. # [23:44] * Quits: machiolate (~thetentma@cpe-98-154-165-171.socal.res.rr.com) (Remote host closed the connection)
  1224. # [23:45] * Quits: Reite (~chris@213.109-247-20.customer.lyse.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  1225. # [23:45] * Joins: chasefarmer (~cfarmer@64.79.127.118)
  1226. # [23:45] * Joins: Reite (~chris@213.109-247-20.customer.lyse.net)
  1227. # [23:46] * Quits: zachleat (~zachleat@ext-B14-1658.omhq.uprr.com) (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi)
  1228. # [23:47] * Quits: Reite (~chris@213.109-247-20.customer.lyse.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  1229. # [23:47] * Joins: Reite (~chris@213.109-247-20.customer.lyse.net)
  1230. # [23:55] * Quits: pandeiro (~mu@bd21c2be.virtua.com.br) (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7)
  1231. # Session Close: Wed May 16 00:00:00 2012

The end :)